Official Feedback Thread for Templars

blackcom90

SadieJoan wrote: »

Is it true? Is our dodgy toppling charge now undogable as well as broken??? I'm all for working hard to make my templar work, but this is meant to be a game, no? So that means it is meant to be fun.... How does even more hard work = fun?? Thats what people come on here to get away from, surely.

Just when I thought the nerfs were over and done with! I thought we had been given enough of those nerfy things already...

In the next update there will likely be about 6 templars left in the whole game... No wonder they made sorcerers heal better. Maybe this is a conspiracy to try and get everybody to stop playing templar so that they can replace the class with a new one!

well... to be fair a skill like a charge (if it's not aoe) should be dodgable... the true issue it's that the toppling charge can be reflected too
If they dodgeroll you will be abel to rapidly charge again or use a javelin to impale them.
Plus it doesen't work so no problemXP

Elara_Northwind

blackcom90 wrote: »

SadieJoan wrote: »

Is it true? Is our dodgy toppling charge now undogable as well as broken??? I'm all for working hard to make my templar work, but this is meant to be a game, no? So that means it is meant to be fun.... How does even more hard work = fun?? Thats what people come on here to get away from, surely.

Just when I thought the nerfs were over and done with! I thought we had been given enough of those nerfy things already...

In the next update there will likely be about 6 templars left in the whole game... No wonder they made sorcerers heal better. Maybe this is a conspiracy to try and get everybody to stop playing templar so that they can replace the class with a new one!

well... to be fair a skill like a charge (if it's not aoe) should be dodgable... the true issue it's that the toppling charge can be reflected too
If they dodgeroll you will be abel to rapidly charge again or use a javelin to impale them.
Plus it doesen't work so no problemXP

yeah its broken anyway, can't use it, so no change I guess... but if they do (somehow) manage to fix it, they could at least make it great, just to make up for other sucky skills, idk

blackcom90

SadieJoan wrote: »

blackcom90 wrote: »

SadieJoan wrote: »

Is it true? Is our dodgy toppling charge now undogable as well as broken??? I'm all for working hard to make my templar work, but this is meant to be a game, no? So that means it is meant to be fun.... How does even more hard work = fun?? Thats what people come on here to get away from, surely.

Just when I thought the nerfs were over and done with! I thought we had been given enough of those nerfy things already...

In the next update there will likely be about 6 templars left in the whole game... No wonder they made sorcerers heal better. Maybe this is a conspiracy to try and get everybody to stop playing templar so that they can replace the class with a new one!

well... to be fair a skill like a charge (if it's not aoe) should be dodgable... the true issue it's that the toppling charge can be reflected too
If they dodgeroll you will be abel to rapidly charge again or use a javelin to impale them.
Plus it doesen't work so no problemXP

yeah its broken anyway, can't use it, so no change I guess... but if they do (somehow) manage to fix it, they could at least make it great, just to make up for other sucky skills, idk

uhm... i have no idea that could make this skill better... i really loved to jump from one target to another till they were out of stamina.

technohic

Templar "Why can't we have things like other classes that are better than ours"
ZOS "We don't want to homogenize abilities."

Templar "Hey. Why'd you nerf this?"
ZOS "To homogenize it with similar abilities."

Elara_Northwind

well, I wouldn't know, its broken for me completely, so using it just once is as risky as hell . From, one target to another... Not sure I would risk it lol I use shield charge, which is a complete pain because of stamina, but 50% of the time that I use toppling charge, it just gets me killed... a fix would make it better! but a nerf, before we even get a fix just seems like a kick in the teeth tbh

blackcom90

SadieJoan wrote: »

well, I wouldn't know, its broken for me completely, so using it just once is as risky as hell . From, one target to another... Not sure I would risk it lol I use shield charge, which is a complete pain because of stamina, but 50% of the time that I use toppling charge, it just gets me killed... a fix would make it better! but a nerf, before we even get a fix just seems like a kick in the teeth tbh

i was referring to a long time ago when toppling charge was usable. Right now i use shield charge too.

I think they have problem with this skill because it's animation it's really particular and the graphic side of eso was rushed.
Probably we will see this skill work when they will introduce the dx12, because with the dx12 they will rework a big part of eso graphic to fit better the game engine (that right now it's pretty much castrated)

Elara_Northwind

blackcom90 wrote: »

SadieJoan wrote: »

well, I wouldn't know, its broken for me completely, so using it just once is as risky as hell . From, one target to another... Not sure I would risk it lol I use shield charge, which is a complete pain because of stamina, but 50% of the time that I use toppling charge, it just gets me killed... a fix would make it better! but a nerf, before we even get a fix just seems like a kick in the teeth tbh

i was referring to a long time ago when toppling charge was usable. Right now i use shield charge too.

I think they have problem with this skill because it's animation it's really particular and the graphic side of eso was rushed.
Probably we will see this skill work when they will introduce the dx12, because with the dx12 they will rework a big part of eso graphic to fit better the game engine (that right now it's pretty much castrated)

I hope so!

Faulgor

Yeah, I specifically made several Kagrenac's sets to synergize with my res speed. I don't PvP a lot, this is a straight-up nerf for my PvE res speed. In fact the bonus from Kagrenac's is pretty negligible now for my Templar to justify not using Julianos or the like instead.

Sigh.

DHale

Yeah the nerfs are gertting old I saw many in the nerf kags posts that do not even play Templars also one I know wears medium armor so I doubt it would be kags and he is a dk the other plays solo. Doubt he is worrying about rezzzing ppl. Now toppling is dodgeable which sucks but lotus fan remains undodgeable and does more damage and yet toppling still doesn't work correctly. Makes no sense to me... I am perplexed.

Kevmeister

Just when you thought it couldn't get worse than this, they proved us wrong with 2.3.2.

I'm so glad I've quitted the game, despite having 3 more months of sub.

So long, and thanks for the fish.

Alorier

Might takes months to fill the Templar bounty in PvP

Chelos

@Wrobel 's main is a NB from what I've read...
Go figure..
I mean even what I've seen of TG is kind of NB country.
Apparently the developers are so biased towards some class(es) they don't care about the rest.

I know how bitter this sounds, still comparable skills of other classes are better than the Templars.

Anyone seen a Templar spam toppling charge like a NB spams ambush? Oh, and the lotus fan can't be dodged either...

kaalmoth

Hiero_Glyph wrote: »

I keep thinking about how amazing the Paladin was in Diablo 2 as it could flash auras to make everything around them slow, take reflective damage, buff ally damage, heal, etc. and look at the Templar in ESO and just laugh. Wrobel is clueless if he thinks Templars have any way to discourage enemies from entering their house.

It seems there will be a Division in ESO once Thieves Guild is released. I'm afraid the Dark Brotherhood will become a No Man's land (Sky?) in June as well. Maybe ZOS can win us back with the promised battlegrounds (and console text chat) later this year.

Hahaha yeah, and I think they made pre ordering available for dark souls 3 yesterday. Well at least I saw it yesterday, few hours after reading new patchnotes. Must be some kind of message gaming gods are sendung me.

Alorier

All my friends have packed up and now a lot of guild mates are disappearing people are fed up with the lag , nerfs game is getting boring now

Iyas

Chelos wrote: »

@Wrobel 's main is a NB from what I've read...
Go figure..
I mean even what I've seen of TG is kind of NB country.
Apparently the developers are so biased towards some class(es) they don't care about the rest.

I know how bitter this sounds, still comparable skills of other classes are better than the Templars.

Anyone seen a Templar spam toppling charge like a NB spams ambush? Oh, and the lotus fan can't be dodged either...

I think he doesnt play the game because hes willing to destroy the NB class to. Any NB who is marked is locked out of using cloak. He cant cloak for 30secs. The skill is blacked out..

BalticBlues

Kevmeister wrote: »

Just when you thought it couldn't get worse than this, they proved us wrong with 2.3.2.
I'm so glad I've quitted the game, despite having 3 more months of sub.

After the BOL and Kagrenacs nerf, I finally give up on my crippled Templar as well.
After so many good abilities have been removed or crippled, there is no reason to play this class.

I am playing my Sorc now that I haven't touched for a year, and the gameplay is incredible:
You are highly mobile, the skills work and synergize well, the dps and shields are incredible.

Templars are rotting in nerfed (if useful), broken or completely useless skills.
Sorcs are flourishing in buffed, functional and mostly useful skills.

Mr. Wrobel, you want to know what "home" in ESO finally means to me?
Playing a Sorc now compared to a Templar feels like coming home instead of a broken home.

Cinbri

Post 2.3.2 suggestions:

Post as thread too to make sure that ZOS will see it.
First of all. Sweep ultimate finally became viable especially Crescent Sweep(funny but it contradict new trial crescent-mmon theme). 2sec for Empowering Sweep is much needed but i still think that change mitigation mechanic to Major Protection buff will be better. And now we must get fixed Rite of Passage, coz with all penalties it apply, ultimate is pale.
better.

Cinbri wrote: »

This is mostly all feedback with argumentation and theorycrafting i can provide for now:
1.Animations and visual improvements.
2.Small buffs and Improvements.
3.Skills Overhaul.
Rest of feedback depends only on what Wrobel will say on friday eso live. Hope 26 pages will result in some notacible and positive buffs. I really hope.

Suggestions:
Not a single viusal effect for templars was improved and i don't understand why. We got revamped Empower animation, dk molten armaments improved, sorc got new animation for revamped skill.
1. Yellow glwoing round hands for either Focused Healing passive or Focus buffs. It is impossible to see if those bonuses are still on you without addons that showing buffs duration. Focus now grants buff duration for 8 sec and still apply glowing yellow effect on body, but as i said before body effect is easily can be overwriten by other same boddy effects, so it is impossible to determine if buff still on you; nor the FH passive giving you hints if healing buff still on you.
Since Empower no longer trigger red glowing on hands, it is even more easy to dtermine such buffs - templar must get iconic "sun"-color buff that can't be overwritten

2. Honor the Dead mana return is also impossible to determine without addons.
3. Spear Shards animation must be fixed and i gave suggestion how it could be fixed.

Cinbri wrote: »

[*]Spear Shards: right now animation of this skill is too slow it may looks like it has cast time. At the time when templar start casting second Spear, first one didn't land yet. It is nice to have ranged AoE but with current animation speed it is impossible to target high/medium mobile targets. Regarding removing ability to target zone for this skill: it may improve speed of this skill but i remember how terrible it was whan you was unable to target zone for tactical play, adding such option was great improvement and should not be removed. DKs Eruption on other hand is landing at same second same as revamped Daedric Tomb.
Currently when templar choose target are of attack it starting 2nd phase of animation: currently templar throwing spear into air, after it animation end it proc next animation - of falling from sky spear.The way to fix it should be similar as new Daedric Tomb working - when templar throwing spear into air, in middle of this 1st animation, 2nd animation of spear falling from sky already should starting to proc.
Also you can notice that on last phase of 2nd animation, 3rd animation proccing - splitting shards, that decreasing animation even more. Improving this 3rd animation may result of increasing speed of cast for miliseconds.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GEgXtanFhT4

And from this slow-mo you can see that target should be affected but still not affected by spear till 3rd animation played to an end:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iPdZ31IEULc

4. Solar Barrage cast animation still apply short stuck.

---

1. Templar Charge - now "fixed", but is still often auto-cancelling upon cast. Wrobel said that it related to path finding mechanic and lags making things even worse. Why than not to revamp skill and make it like NB ambush - it won't requare for skill to track path and lags won't negatively affect this skill. Also you can take animation from Vosh Rakh skill with cutting half of it and apply for templar Charge. My editing skills are bad but thats how it could looks like, similar to ambush but we would not travel through shadows but through light

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4wql81mo8hk

2. Puncturing Sweep - this skill still loosing its effectiveness vs shields. It must be fixed to allow healing upon hitting damage shields.
3. Focus - since now both morphs working for 8 sec, Restoring Focus became equal to another morph and maybe looking like Chocking Talons of dk. Change of mana return - at least it is "fixed", alos now after CF expired 8 sec buff of mana return still proccing = 1920 more mana return from this morph.
4. Light Weaver/Balanced Warrior/Restoring Spirit - still suggesting to do this

Cinbri wrote: »

5. Restoring Spirit - there is no secret that magplars/stamplars have worst sustain, such small buff as increasing this passive's numbers to 8% all reduction will help a lot.
5. Light Weaver - very weak passive that almost don't have synnergy. I suggest to revamp ult giving component and make it return ultimates only to caster(not to allies as they are mosr sustainable) upon casting Healing Ritual and Rushed Ceremony abilities so those healings won't be only 100% defensive mechanic.
7. Balanced Warrior - templar now is only class without major sorcery buff. So in addition to weapon damage it should grant spelldamage and probably same number of physical resistance.

5. Rite of Passage - must get Sweep treatment, i.e. fixed to become usefull in PvP.
6. Eclipse - change to Total Dark will make ability even less viable than before, I will talk about it below(no matter what, 1 target cap must be removed of increased to 3 targets). Unstable Core - another useless change: in PvE dd won't spam it on seeral targets and wait 6 sec for it to explode, heal will still heal and tank won't waste huge amount of mana for it. But looks on Sun-Eaters from new trial: they cast ground aoe dot Eclipse, templar could get either same or revamped to work as Rune Prison of npc menders - stun through block(tempalr version of Fissilize).
7. Backlash - obviously PvE skill, but to give it at least some usability in PvP you can make it work as Mark - enemies won't be able to hide. That is just that easy.

---

Templar sustain:
It is still no secret that templar sustain worse possible . Now Wrobel confirmed that templar like dk is "hold-your-ground" class, but unlike dk its sustain worse then nb or sorc in light armor...And myth about templar super tankiness is just a myth coz templar forced to stack defense to maximum coz lack of sustain and thus sacrifice all his damage outpoot.
Also Wrobel pointed some pain points:
a. Cyro Spirit and how it affects skill, so here: Blazing Shield=Dragonblodd and both not fixed coz it requare to take into account percentage improve and shieldstacking problem.
b. Inhale buffed to make dk more viable for self-healing, so here: Honor the Dead=Inhale and thats fine.
And now lets see on sustain passives:
Restoring Spirit = Battle Roar
Remembrance = Helping Hands
^^As we can see templar abilities can't directly restore stamina, especially if there is no corpses. Even NBs have direct stamina restore abilities. Thats why templar tank is worst from those 3 classes after block nerf that stoped regen stamina while blocking and thus making PvP for templar impossible to play "hold-your-ground" style. If he tanking Boss in PvE there is no way for him to restore stamina to sustain. ZOS hope watched HODOR runs through Maw of Lorkhaj and see fact that DK tank is most viable coz self-sustain.
Another tanking class - DK - must be taken as example of what is tanking class is, coz even in PvE Templar can't sustain even nearly as good as DK, for example this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S15Wh-hgv3w

Templar just can't fill role Wrobel invisioned for it, and this is problem related to Blinding Flashes:
a.Blinding Flashed effects:1.dodge-like buff. 2.AoE melee CC. Literally, it was melee version of Scales+CC, so removal of BF is equal to removal of Scales+root of Talons. Remove those from DK and you will see what will happen, same happened with templars. (While DK got set-off balance type of skill after it was removed from templars. "Shattering Rocks")
So, we got finisher in the coast of most effective defensive skill.
b.Next our mitigation skill Blazing Shield became broken, so we got 1 less viable defense for melee.
c. Now Total Dark nerf - not possible to reflect hard-hitting melee abilities and 1 cap target.
d. Now fixed Cleansing Ritual was symbol how good for sustain such absorb-reflect skills, this bug made templars feel like true "hold-your-ground" class.
^^^With those nerfs we lost all defensive skills and left only healing that is not mitigating damage but only serve to recover from harm that was done to us. No skills to help sustain or tank.
To fix it we hould get back Flashes-like skill or revamp current templar skills to become viable to sustain:
1. The most easiest way to do it:
a. Revamp Total Dark and make it work as DK Scales.
b. Revamp Radiant Ward to apply some sort of CC upon cast with little damage shield.
As result to it: In PvP - templar will become as Wrobel wanted - enemies will be forced to come to melee to kill templar and in melee templar will be able to slowing them by CC. In PvE - tanking will still be not as viable as DK, but it will contradict with fact that templar better healer at least. Change of Radiant Ward will completely remove such problems as percentage skills in PvP and shieldstacking problem for this morph. Also it will cover another Eclipse problem - only hard hitting range stamina ability is Snipe, but Snipe has much longer range and Eclipse won't be able to reach it, aslo stamina build have high stamina regen and break free will be almost unnoticable for them while mana cost for Eclipse is high.
2. Another way to fix it:
a. Make Spear Shards to have unique synnergy that can be activated by its own caster.
b. Make Total Dark to reflect all types of abilities and increase cap to 3 targets.
As result those 2 changes will fix problem of self-sustainable templar tanks both in PvP and PvE and will negate fact that templar as tanking class without active stamina returns.
3. And last way to fix it: (some unique)
a. to remove such problems as percentage skills in PvP and shieldstacking problem, revamp Radiant Ward to work like: self-buff for 20 seconds that will grant Major Evasion buff(20%) and will have additional effect to help with sustain:

• every dodge grants returns 1000 stamina to caster.

It should help sustain in both PvE and PvP and will negate fact that templar as tanking class without active stamina returns. Also in compare with Blinding Flashes - it 50% miss chance but only for melee 5m, while Evasion grants 20% to both melee and range. For magicka templars stamina based Evasion is stamina-drainer cos high cost, and stamplars are worst stamina-based class coz lack of sustain and also have only couple magicka skills to waste mana on.
To further comparison we can compare it with old Black Rose that had 20% of 900 stamina return upon block:
unbuffed block cost 1730 stamina, and to restore 900 stamina you must waste at least 6920 block stamina, same with dodge effect - it won't make you to dadge instantly vs 1 target and make you unkillable but each 1 more enemy will slightly increase chances to survive, also unlike Blinding Flashes, dodge not proccing on AoE dd skills. So for example:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EU9Ng9NOd2E

As you can see vs 8 targets 20 sec dodge-buff gave only 9 dodges: 9k stamina in 20 seconds vs 8 enemies, it equal to 900 stamina regen for 20 sec only while being already heavily outnumbered. To compare to dk Helping Hands passive with ~15k stamina = 750 stamina returns, in addition to Battle Roar passive effectiveness you can see on video i linked above from WGT.
This change will allow to invest more resources into offense, not just stuck as much defense as possible and have 0 damage outpoot.
b. Make Total Dark to reflect abilities as it is now on pts but remove cap completely. As many times already said why.

---

@Wrobel

Mumyo

blackcom90 wrote: »

SadieJoan wrote: »

Is it true? Is our dodgy toppling charge now undogable as well as broken??? I'm all for working hard to make my templar work, but this is meant to be a game, no? So that means it is meant to be fun.... How does even more hard work = fun?? Thats what people come on here to get away from, surely.

Just when I thought the nerfs were over and done with! I thought we had been given enough of those nerfy things already...

In the next update there will likely be about 6 templars left in the whole game... No wonder they made sorcerers heal better. Maybe this is a conspiracy to try and get everybody to stop playing templar so that they can replace the class with a new one!

well... to be fair a skill like a charge (if it's not aoe) should be dodgable... the true issue it's that the toppling charge can be reflected too
If they dodgeroll you will be abel to rapidly charge again or use a javelin to impale them.
Plus it doesen't work so no problemXP

The explosive charges aoe dmg is not dodgeable, thats pretty nice and i guess its intended since its aoe.

Hymzir

Well.. was not gonna post, but whatever, am on a break from work 'till the end of March and am waiting for couple of new games to drop, so might as well kill some time by commenting on the latest batch of nonsense from ZOS.

Got little to say about Eclipse tweak since I don't use it, and will not be using it in the future either. It remains a useless skill. The Restoring Focus change... well it's better than the garbage they were trying to push on us, but strictly speaking, it's still a nerf compared to live. But whatever. I can live with it, event though it is demonstratively worse than what other classes get.

The same can be said about Major Expedition, Major Sorcery and Major Brutality. But since they want to make the classes feel different, Wrobel Logic dictates that you achieve this by giving three classes all the same buffs and skills, and then not give any of them to Templars, thus ensuring that all classes are not the same! Such brilliant design.

As for the changes to morphs of Radial sweep... The buff to Empowering is okay - it's still a weak skill but it's a tanking ulti, and there is nothing that directly competes with it in that regard. So for those who wanna play tanky templars it has some use. I'd still go with something else, but maybe with the buffs it can be made to work. I doubt it though.

The buffs to Crescent Sweep, in standard ZOS fashion, misses the point completely. IT IS NOT ABOUT DAMAGE! JUST INCREASING DAMAGE WILL NOT FIX THE SKILL! It's still worse than Dawnbreaker. If you are a stamina DPS you are going to pick Flawless Dawnbreaker. You just are. It's better in every conceivable way. It's pointless to have two thing catering to the exact same need. If you offer people several similar options, each slightly different, but all basically doing the same thing, people invariably just pick the one that is best. Which in this case is Dawnbreaker. And if you make Crescent stronger than Dawnbreaker, non Templars will start endlessly QQ:ing about it and call for nerfs. Which would be fairly understandable since Dawnbreaker is already a really powerful ulti, and having a similar class ulti, but better, would not be balanced design.

Magicka DPS will just pick Meteor, because obviously they are going to pick Meteor! They'd have to have serious mental impairment not to. But let's assume you can't do that for some weird reason, then you are going to go with Dawnbreaker of Smiting over Crescent Sweeps. BECAUSE IT IS BETTER IN EVERY CONCEIVABLE WAY!

You keep talking about offering players choice as to what skills to slot, so please act upon those words. Offer us actual choices between different things. Not just between the same thing in several different shades.

Radial sweep is a perfect candidate for a dedicated tanking ulti. And would fit perfectly with this "our house" and "stand your ground" stuff you want Templars to represent. Just give the basic skill a baseline tanking aspect, and then offer us two meaningful choices between different tanking approaches. Since Empowering offers mitigation, then Crescent should probably offer healing. That would be a real choice, a choice between two tanking tactics and would not just be an inferior version of Dawnbreaker. DPS character would skip this skill and go with Dawnbreaker, but so what? Tanks would go for it.

The other thing I want to comment is the change to rez speed. Now keep in mind that I am an advocate of nerfing rez speeds. As someone who used to run around with Kagre, I found the whole thing silly, and realized that this had to change. However, the way you did it, was the wrong way. Which is perfectly sensible, since that is your thing. Doing the wrong thing. But let's assume for a moment that you are actually sensible people over there, and stop to think what this change actually means and who does it hurt?

It doesn't take much to figure out that this is gonna hit Templars the hardest. Kagre running Templar is now going to be only marginally faster at rezzing than non Templar running Kagre. It devalues our highest level passive in the restoration tree! It devalues something that is supposed to be a unique aspect of our class.

If you had instead just lowered the amount each separate source gives to rez speed, there would still be some point in being a rez specialising Templar. But with your fix, that idea is meaningless now. Anyone can be a fast rezzer if they want. The difference between Templar rezzing specialist and a rezzing specialist of any other class is so small that you'd hardly even notice it.

Besides, with the reintroduction of Forward Camps, rezzing as an area of expertise is devalued anyway, and thus this would've been a perfect chance to show some actual goodwill and understand towards Templar issues, and replace Master Ritualist with a passive that is actually useful to all Templars. Both group and solo players, both stamina and magicka versions. Something that every other class has, something that Templars desperately need: Resource management passive.

A simple +5%/+10% to Magicka and Stamina regen would've been perfect, and in line with what the other classes get. But then again... the classes need to be different. And since the other classes already have resource management passives, the only solution is not to give any to Templars. It's the only way to make sure that the classes are not homogenized.

Essiaga

DHale wrote: »

Yeah the nerfs are gertting old I saw many in the nerf kags posts that do not even play Templars also one I know wears medium armor so I doubt it would be kags and he is a dk the other plays solo. Doubt he is worrying about rezzzing ppl. Now toppling is dodgeable which sucks but lotus fan remains undodgeable and does more damage and yet toppling still doesn't work correctly. Makes no sense to me... I am perplexed.

Lotus Fan - Its not dodge able, avoid able at at all and doesn't require a gap. It IS the problem with gap closers but the Templar is nerfed first.

Might as well start referring to Templar as Nerfplars. It's like ZOS start with a list of stuff to remove and removes it ... then give us something (which is mostly things we're still aren't going to use, and a buff to Dark Flare which always nerfed later) ... then remove something to balance what they gave us ignoring the list of stuff the removed in the first place.

But again, I've only crafted on my Templar in since Dec cause I ran out of pots to fix Toppling Charge and just can't keep up the maintenance cost on him.

Good old Dodge-able, reflect-able, unfix-able Toppling charge.

Essiaga

Iyas wrote: »

Chelos wrote: »

@Wrobel 's main is a NB from what I've read...
Go figure..
I mean even what I've seen of TG is kind of NB country.
Apparently the developers are so biased towards some class(es) they don't care about the rest.

I know how bitter this sounds, still comparable skills of other classes are better than the Templars.

Anyone seen a Templar spam toppling charge like a NB spams ambush? Oh, and the lotus fan can't be dodged either...

I think he doesnt play the game because hes willing to destroy the NB class to. Any NB who is marked is locked out of using cloak. He cant cloak for 30secs. The skill is blacked out..

Yeah. I feel for NB too. While cloak needed a small tweak, and I think DOT nerf was it. But this is like the Prvt Pile beat down scene in Full Metal Jacket. They just keep swinging and swinging.

I kinda feel it's my fault. I been playing a Templar since nerf. I mean launch. Then I started leveling a magicka DK as an alt to break things up and was really liking it and they got nerfed. I couldn't get into the NB or Sorc though I really tried. But now that I'm playing a NB and enjoying it they're getting nerfed as well. It's like the nerfs are following me. If I can get into the Sorc and rotate my game play just right I might be able to get this game balanced out in a few months.

Essiaga

Cinbri wrote: »

Post 2.3.2 suggestions:

1. Templar Charge - now "fixed", but is still often auto-cancelling upon cast. Wrobel said that it related to path finding mechanic and lags making things even worse. Why than not to revamp skill and make it like NB ambush - it won't requare for skill to track path and lags won't negatively affect this skill. Also you can take animation from Vosh Rakh skill with cutting half of it and apply for templar Charge. My editing skills are bad but thats how it could looks like, similar to ambush but we would not travel through shadows but through light

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4wql81mo8hk

What I don't get is we are leaping into the air. We're not running. We're considered a projectilee and can be reflected (and dodged). What does the path matter to this skill at all? LOS I get. We can't leap through walls.

They need to rework the skill to be more like what you have there. To perform more like a single target Dragon Leap and remove the path issues all together.

If it something inherent in the path then why does Crit Charge and Shield Charge work so much better IMO? What is so much more complex about TP then Ambush? It's a few checks, a visual animation, and applying effects.

Make it ugly. We don't CARE. Just make it work.

When you take your car to the dealer because somethings broken they give you a loaner. Do the same for TC for Wrobel's sake. The problem seems like amateur hour over at ZOS and its ruined the confidence we had in the development team.

Sallington

AfkNinja wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

Think the better change would have been to put a cooldown on being ressed over and over -rather than hitting ress speed or sickness. This would really prevent the problem people have, where large groups are being ressed over and over in fights. But this probably goes against some ZOS philosophy of players not being able to play the game or something even though they can always release.

This, the issue wasn't rez speed it's no rez sickness. The issue I have with ZOS is they don't ever pick the correct changes that fix the underlying issue. They only treat the symptoms, they don't understand the WHY's of their own game. They ALWAYS pick the EASY fix, even if it doesn't actually fix anything.

So much truth to this.

Zheg

@ZOS_GinaBruno is Wrobel going to be back for the next ESO Live? Has the massive backlash (templar pun, we all know the skill is derpy xD) caused you to reevaluate any of your positions? What's the path forward for you when so many of your players from all walks are clearly not satisfied nor happy with your vision for balance and your results for balance? Are you going to be putting in some of the remaining necessary balance changes that you intentionally left out until update 10 into an incremental patch between TG and DB?

I think this is now the longest templar thread? Has it finally surprised the previous two?

timidobserver

Zheg wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno is Wrobel going to be back for the next ESO Live? Has the massive backlash (templar pun, we all know the skill is derpy xD) caused you to reevaluate any of your positions? What's the path forward for you when so many of your players from all walks are clearly not satisfied nor happy with your vision for balance and your results for balance? Are you going to be putting in some of the remaining necessary balance changes that you intentionally left out until update 10 into an incremental patch between TG and DB?

I think this is now the longest templar thread? Has it finally surprised the previous two?

Lol@ reevaluate. Wrolog Bal does not reevaluate.

SeptimusDova

Yes this thread has surpassed the other templar threads. Fearless Leader is contemplating about the possibilities.
Picture of fearless leader below

[img][/img]

Minno

Sallington wrote: »

AfkNinja wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

Think the better change would have been to put a cooldown on being ressed over and over -rather than hitting ress speed or sickness. This would really prevent the problem people have, where large groups are being ressed over and over in fights. But this probably goes against some ZOS philosophy of players not being able to play the game or something even though they can always release.

This, the issue wasn't rez speed it's no rez sickness. The issue I have with ZOS is they don't ever pick the correct changes that fix the underlying issue. They only treat the symptoms, they don't understand the WHY's of their own game. They ALWAYS pick the EASY fix, even if it doesn't actually fix anything.

So much truth to this.

Because the people that built the game jumped ship to projects with bigger budgets. Nothing against current ZOS workers kicking their butts trying to make it right (and intense respect since i know how that grunt work can soul-sap lives).
But if you are in a top leader position making decisions you do deserve 100% of the blame for these mistakes and missed opportunities to revitalize the game. They have over a thousand pages of feedback and still nothing? I wish my clients did my work for me ...

Cinbri

Small edit to my previous post:
If Scales-like Eclipse is too "homogenized" for zos, than how about:
since Scales is improved version of Defensive Stance:
Make Total Dark to work like Scales-like version of Absorb Magick morph of snb:
Absorb 4 incoming projectile and have some percentage bonus like deal aoe damage of % of projectile after absorbing, or restore amount of stamina based on % of projectile damage.
It will be still unique templar skill and unlike current Eclipse very strong.
And about Rite of Passage - just remove templar disable while channel ultimate: previously it had disable but proc Focused Healing for all, now FH became 5% less and mobile so it is like double nerf for ultimate.

Minno

Cinbri wrote: »

Small edit to my previous post:
If Scales-like Eclipse is too "homogenized" for zos, than how about:
since Scales is improved version of Defensive Stance:
Make Total Dark to work like Scales-like version of Absorb Magick morph of snb:
Absorb 4 incoming projectile and have some percentage bonus like deal aoe damage of % of projectile after absorbing, or restore amount of stamina based on % of projectile damage.
It will be still unique templar skill and unlike current Eclipse very strong.

Love the resource absorb! It should include stam and magicka to not alienate stam or mag builds.

It could also add dodge chance. And for each spell, it adds to the duration of the dodge. This option wouldn't be OP because dodge chance allows somes spells to hit.

But as of right now there is no mag dodge chance skill for templars, only stam based with NB receiving a mag based DS that also gives them mobility...

Cryhavoc

Minno wrote: »

Sallington wrote: »

AfkNinja wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

Think the better change would have been to put a cooldown on being ressed over and over -rather than hitting ress speed or sickness. This would really prevent the problem people have, where large groups are being ressed over and over in fights. But this probably goes against some ZOS philosophy of players not being able to play the game or something even though they can always release.

This, the issue wasn't rez speed it's no rez sickness. The issue I have with ZOS is they don't ever pick the correct changes that fix the underlying issue. They only treat the symptoms, they don't understand the WHY's of their own game. They ALWAYS pick the EASY fix, even if it doesn't actually fix anything.

So much truth to this.

Because the people that built the game jumped ship to projects with bigger budgets. Nothing against current ZOS workers kicking their butts trying to make it right (and intense respect since i know how that grunt work can soul-sap lives).
But if you are in a top leader position making decisions you do deserve 100% of the blame for these mistakes and missed opportunities to revitalize the game. They have over a thousand pages of feedback and still nothing? I wish my clients did my work for me ...

I agree. It is amazing how the Templar community came together here with suggestions, critiques, etc. So many great ideas.

"The customer is always right" especially when they understand what they want. ZOS should take notice. More camels and glowy armor skins will not support a game when fundamental problems exist underneath.

Personally, I would be just fine with a "my house" defense play style if I could actually accomplish it....