Official Feedback Thread for Templars

AfkNinja

david.haypreub18_ESO wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote:

You want to see FENGRUSH slay it on a templar? EZ - Ill show off stam and magicka templar play soon! Ive played both with topend builds - just not on stream.

FENGRUSH, you could go from one of the most hated men in the Templar community to a folk hero to Templars everywhere if you did that. Simply play a Templar in competitive PvP and stream about some of your experiences. I think we'd all support you; at least someone would be talking about Templars.

Are you up for the challenge @FENGRUSH ?

Indeed, we need representation desperately. If not @Fengrush then someone needs to be added to the crew to Rep Templar's.

Essiaga

@Joy_Division

My ranting version ...

Healing Ritual - This skills REQUIRES spamming to be effective. You can't risk not spamming it or the cast time will kill someone. Its cost and heal are great (on live) but there at least 3 seconds apart on live. Players are also not self mitigating because dungeon mechanics are for the most part known and scripted. DPS > mitigation in ESO and this game is built around min/maxing.

It takes the reactive or creative play and dumb it down to literally being a spam-bot, rather then BOL that frees you up to apply effects and add some dps, etc. It eliminates resource management from the equation due to the cost and cast time as well. It simply bad design.

Its like comparing Hardened Ward to BOL. You pre-healed with Ward. Now your free to attack. BOL.. with lack of mitigation in class you stuck in the spam cast to stay alive verse people dumping DPS on you. I don't want to be a spam-bot. In pvp or pve.

Replace HR with BOL and make BOL a self heal ... one magicka ... one stamina. How do Stamplars not have a self heal in class? Stam heals could be the holy warrior/paladin hybrid type build everyone thought they'd get to play before caps were removed.

Radiant Aura - RADIANT AURA ... Rework to be "Preempt" ...
Gives resource return based on damage ... health return (25%), magicka return (15%), and Stamina Return (8%) ... ever 2 seconds for 6-8 seconds. The recovered resources will also be granted to party members in a 12 m radius.
This would make backlash more viable too as it will be value added. This would make it more feasible to standing your ground with Shards, Solar Barrage, Sweeps/jabs, and even the crappy Sun Shield (though not by much) more viable due to there AOE damage, BUT ITS ALL BASED ON DAMAGE making it self balancing but still useful for all roles depending on the duration and the cost.

Stam builds could get value from this morph OR Repentance though Repent might need a buff (maybe minor or major Force or Berserker to help them make corpses).

Sun Shield - Battle Spirit was the finger in the whole of a the damn that was leaking water... dirty minds.) This should be basis of your balance come balance time. It shows you approximately how out of balance PVP and PVE are. Battle Spirit is a nerf to Templars and DKs and its unexceptionable. Fix it.

Radial Sweep - agreed. more range, actually hit people. I don't think a tank ult is absolutely necessary since we have Nova. Mitigation and debuff sound nice. I'd like it to be low cost and return resources as well so it can be more useful in stand you ground. When a DK pops an ult on me i'm like Damn It! and not for the damage it does to me. He's just reset his resources. What do we got? Check out Preempt.

Balanced Warrior (passive). Spell damage and physical resist. then its actual balanced.

I personally would love a passive : for every AS skill slotted increases health 2% ... Blazing shields would get a variable buff, plus tanks would get a buff for slotting ultimate geared toward mitigation and regen if i have my way. It could replace Spear Wall (15% reduced will blocking) which could replace our fairly worthless rez buff.

Sun Fire - honesly its a pve dot. I'll snare with jabs and probably use mage light for buff and magicka on my offensive bar. Idk. I always thought Vamp Bane should actually be like the bane of vampires. Its not. Camo Hunter is. Making it synergies with a Fighters guild skill might be neat. Maybe at 10% damage if Fighters guild skill slotted.

Buff kinda redundant since mage light gives magicka and we get NONE in class but that's what Templars get. Like Bitting jabs and Camo hunter. So I've got to buff up before battle ... so Rune (8sec), Entropy (20 sec), Sun fire (8sec)to open, Toppling charge, drop ritual for mending to not nerf jab heals, jab ... Seems like a lot to have to keep up. Then again I should have been a DK.

Enduring Rays (passive). nail on the head there JD.

Rite of Passage . i don't know what your talking about. is this a templar skill? for real? like templar in ESO?

Light Weaver] Let's start building that house ... x% of all healing via Restoring Light abilities will damage enemies with in our house equal to the number of party members that are effected. So BOL can heal 3, no 2 ... have it deal 10-25% as damage to 2 people in our house. Cleasing Ritual does 8?12? IDK, but that many enemies tick damage. Doesn't require party members at all. DK has healing DOTs. We can have HoT that damage.

Adding Master Ritualist ... its just been nerfed and I don't want to be the best rezer in the game. Its like being the best at brushing your teeth. I'll take something that actually benefits ME since its MY passive. Its like all these synergies I can't synergies. Shards ... but my stam regen stinks.

Suggestions ... 10% mitigation in with a Resto Light skill slotted or 2% stam or stam regen per skill. I get Repentance but waiting for corpses is just unfair. I know most stam morphs are in the other 2 trees. Extended ritual should be a stam heal and Vigor should not exist IMO.

Uninspiring and Mediocre, but occasionally useful

Nothing about the performance of effect of these abilities gets me excited to log into Elder Scrolls and play a Templar even if they perform their function adequately.

Piercing Javelin - stam debuffs armor. Magick debuff spell resist. Balanced Warrior and all.

Spear Wall (passive) replace with the suggestion above. 2% health for ASpear skill slotted and replace ....

Restoring Spirit (passive) - No templar has ever forgotten the nerf to what was the class's only means of passive resource regeneration. ZoS removed what was an interesting and different means of sustain and gave templars a boring cost reduction that is inadequate compared to the other classes. So now we have not means to defend our house and no passive resource management. Buff please. Preach. See Preempt.

Solar Barrage (specific morph) - I want Maim Debuff. DK has Inhale which regens health/magicka. That's stand your ground sh!t right there. We get empower? Give 6 seconds of Major Maim to help us replace Blinding Flashes.

Cleansing Ritual - you got it dude. Mitigation via Spear Wall 15% (Not just blocking - all the time) should apply to this skill. Also allies just run away leaving us to stand alone. Give a buff to allies to stand and fight with us. I'd like it to be capped at 12 and group size to be caped at 12 as well. F raids. let them have communication issues that a larger group of individual adventurers would IRL. talk in /s, /y/ or TS.

This skill could make the templar the one everyone wants to be around. Currently i just feel the hate of spambush, WB, etc. from everyone who are looking for the easy target.

Has potential but is undermined

Toppling Charge - ... did they fix the self silence? It would lock you out of using skills, blocking light attack, etc for 10 secs or so. Its a projectile and can be reflected (and now blocked) so we shouldn't have the path issue wrobel mentioned changed the animation to work like a single target dragon leap. In the short term copy and past shield charge and change it to cost magicka.

Spear Shards - THE **** hang time. Its like 3 secs before it hits. A max range i can almost walk fast enough to beat shards to its destination. Also 8 meters when the hang time requires clairvoyance to actually hit someone. Ash Cloud snares you so you're more likely to get hit and last 18 secs AND they have talons and standards and inhale ... for great synergy of skills. I think I'm seriously going to play DK from now on.

Dark Flare - first ******* cast is ******* longer than the ******* 1.1 second ******* tooltip time! God **** it!!

Backlash - add ... enemies effected can not stealth till duration is up.

Rune Focus - On Live I don't get the benefit out side the circle. Magicka regen stops the second I get out and i'm on the timer. Why me?

ZoS is against homogenization right? They homogenization always seems to end with the templar. mobility, debuffs, buffs, CC ... all of it. We are the class for crap no one wants. Channels, cast times, unresponsive skills.

Puncturing strikes - Heals for 40% of damage done; heal can crit; Snare applied on first hit; ability interrupts casters/channels. Fix effects on shields.
Interrupt casters, does that work on stam skills? i used force shock on WB and got no interrupt. I think its only magicka abilities but i might be miss-remembering.

Nova - Synergies do nothing for the caster and should not be considered in the cost. Give me the option to lose the synergy for 50-75% of the damage or something. Same with shard and cleansing ritual - great for others ... nothing for me.

Radiant Destruction - hehe ... I honestly hate this skill, but I'd rather have Blinding Flashes.

Rushed Ceremony - I'm sorry but this skill is overrated. Agree. It is powerful in groups with multiple healers and one can argue Healing is outrages, along with Damage, but this changed improved/fixed nothing.

Honor the Dead seems to serve no purpose to me. Change it to a self heal only. Hoping it hits you instead of some other random guy near by in exchange for magicka return just seems silly. You can make both morphs of Rushed Ceremony self heals and replace Healing Ritual with BOL and all templars would be more happy. HR is stupid. Stamplars not having self heal is stupid ... just bad design that seems to lack creativity and vision.

I know ZoS is trying, but it gets worse with every patch

Eclipse - Here's what i want. Apply Eclipse to 1 target ... All other targets do 25-50% less damage to me while that 1 can do 100% ... hell lets make it 115% ... This would allow me to stand my ground when I'm the one getting focused because i might cast BOL and heal some one ... creative.

There's no reason for eclipse not to be able to be cast on more then 1 target when its purged/cc broken with out damage. Sure they spent resources, but the skill feels completely unresponsive and Wrobel has stated that as the reason to get rid of blinding flashes and several other changes.

Great stuff JoyD ... In closing ...

You have to expect frustration out of anyone who champions this class. Healing isn't cool. Channels are not cool. We picked this class because we identify with it. We want to be hard to kill and tanky even at the sacrifice of damage. That's the game we bought and the class we choose. Whats on Live and whats to come ... is not that.

We're squishy, and lame. We look at the class and don't see identity. We see crisis. The game is upside down. Play your way has become play THIS way. Min/maxing was discouraged in favor of hybrid/unique builds ... that all went with the removal of hard and soft caps and poorly rolled out CP that offers far to much improvement in stats and effectiveness.

We want skills that feel fluid, synergies with each other, and to stop being the the unique class that lacks everything else the others classes have while getting everything they don't want. They get better at what we are know for. Our healing tree ... yet as the 'stand your ground,' 'this is my home and its going to be bad for you' class WE SUCK AS TANKS??? Where is your vision? Who are we? Why do we play this class?

Its not that i want tempars to be the only healer. But what is the role of the templar?

*Healing ... Everyone heals better this update.

*DPS ... we're going to get nerfed to keep them from being OP. Dark Flare 12% will not stick. They did the same thing last year.

*Tanking ... nothing. We're crap tanks and BOL is now ALL we got to keep us alive in PVP.

The DPS creep is so awful at this point and nothing is going to be done about it. Damage scales with max stats. Perhaps mitigation should as well. Resolve and Ward buffs have remained the same. Have they been adjusted since Caps were removed or CP was added or since the level increased 2 more levels?

Balance out Battle Spirit, balance mitigation, some passive regen, maybe some passive stat stacking, and give the Templar some defensive skills to allow us to survive in PVP and tank in PVE. BOL can not seriously be our identity.

Honestly identity crisis is what I'm having with ESO and the Templar Class. Go back to the identity we once had and actually give us the skills to perform and excel in that way. We're not even a "jack-of-all-trades' and your vision for the Templar seems to be the "master-of-none".

Just my perspective.

Neoauspex

Great post @Joy_Division. I nominate @Joy_Division and @Ffastyl as Templar ambassadors to ZoS. Somebody start a gofundme to send them in person to the corporate offices.

Essiaga

Ffastyl wrote: »

@Joy_Division I can resonate with most of what you say, especially Templars lacking defense.

I get the sense you play primarily a Magicka Templar as no Stamina morphs were mentioned in detail and one suggestion would actually shaft Stamina Templars: Sun Shield to Magicka.

Stamina has no access to Rushed Ceremony and Healing Ritual is actually strong enough to function as a heal for Stamina - but is unusable with a cast time, like everyone has said; Biting Jabs has no healing, nor does Power of the Light. Templar has no defense and Stamina cannot even use healing to make up for it.

Having Sun Shield as Health based would give Stamina a defense if buffed. Converting it to Magicka will make the Magicka/Stamina parity for Templar very similar to the parity for Sorcerers. Instead of taking an option away from Stamina Templars, double the base and bonus percentages for Sun Shield, 60% and 10% respectively. It may make it overpowered for PvE but such a buff will restore it to the usable shape we had for PvP prior to 1.6.

I agree. Stam builds suffer for picking Templar and that needs to change.

I believe all shield should be based off of Health or a combo of health something. To stack stats that make you a hit hard AND take less damage seems kind of silly and not balanced. A tank should mitigate better then a DPS. Health seems to be that balance point.

I've often said shields are the magicka block (which cost stamina) and dodge roll (which cost stamina). Since hard/soft caps have been removed its become harder to effectively have enough magicka for stam users to utilize class skills such as healing, and magicka users to block and dodge roll. Short of returning to the days of hard/soft caps I believe the magicka shield may need to be a little larger, by 30% ish percent. Is that something you could accept?

Something like (30% health) + ( magicka regen times 3). Drinks, potions, Radiant Aura, Repentance could buff it. Though Vamp 10% regen and Structured Entropy 8% health ... Obviously would take more then 5 mins of thought to balance out.

Of course Battle Spirit would have to be removed to make it worth anything still.

danno8

@Joy_Division
Puncturing Sweep heal does not crit, but you get a proportional increase on the heal when the damage component crits.

So it acts like a crit in a very real sense, since we are dealing with multiplication.

I just tested this on live to be sure. With a normal Sweep hit of ~2300 the heal was ~1100, with a crit of ~3800 the heal was ~1900.

Strange things happen when Burning Light procs at the same time though, like was noted somewhere on these forums.

Hiero_Glyph

This thread has so many amazing ideas yet we already know that it will be ignored, just as almost all of it was previously.

The kicker for me was the rez speed change. It just demonstrates how disconnected ZOS is with Templars.

maxjapank

@Joy_Division

I like most of what you say. I am only going to comment on one thing that I didn't quite understand so please don't take it the wrong way. Just know that I appreciate your thoughts and sentiments, and overall agree with you.

Sun Shield

I fully agree that this is weak. For being the last spell in the Aedric tree, it deserves to be stronger. But I was confused by your comment "Do not ask me to run a high health builds because the PvE content ZoS's dungeon team designed thinks I run a high magicka build".

Are you meaning that because pve content requires you to use high Magicka builds that you can come in and use the same builds for pvp? I was confused by this statement. And I was also confused by your picture of having under 21k health for the 3200 shield. I agree that this shield is pitifully weak, but so is 21k health. Was this health screenshot taken out of Cyrodiil?

Also, the picture of your Breath of Life healing you for 3k. That seems awfully low.

And as for the the 13k Lethal arrow and 7.5k Camouflaged hunter, those seem painfully high? Which leads me to think that the person isn't wearing any Impen gear and isn't using Rune Focus.

None of this, of course, takes away from Sun Shield being too weak for the short time it lasts. In its current state, it just isn't getting used, which is unfortunate for being the last spell in the Aedric tree.

FENGRUSH

david.haypreub18_ESO wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote:

You want to see FENGRUSH slay it on a templar? EZ - Ill show off stam and magicka templar play soon! Ive played both with topend builds - just not on stream.

FENGRUSH, you could go from one of the most hated men in the Templar community to a folk hero to Templars everywhere if you did that. Simply play a Templar in competitive PvP and stream about some of your experiences. I think we'd all support you; at least someone would be talking about Templars.

Are you up for the challenge @FENGRUSH ?

Yes - it shall be done.

Ffastyl

Neoauspex wrote: »

Great post @Joy_Division. I nominate @Joy_Division and @Ffastyl as Templar ambassadors to ZoS. Somebody start a gofundme to send them in person to the corporate offices.

I'm honored by the nomination, but... Why me?

Essiaga wrote: »

Ffastyl wrote: »

@Joy_Division I can resonate with most of what you say, especially Templars lacking defense.

I get the sense you play primarily a Magicka Templar as no Stamina morphs were mentioned in detail and one suggestion would actually shaft Stamina Templars: Sun Shield to Magicka.

Stamina has no access to Rushed Ceremony and Healing Ritual is actually strong enough to function as a heal for Stamina - but is unusable with a cast time, like everyone has said; Biting Jabs has no healing, nor does Power of the Light. Templar has no defense and Stamina cannot even use healing to make up for it.

Having Sun Shield as Health based would give Stamina a defense if buffed. Converting it to Magicka will make the Magicka/Stamina parity for Templar very similar to the parity for Sorcerers. Instead of taking an option away from Stamina Templars, double the base and bonus percentages for Sun Shield, 60% and 10% respectively. It may make it overpowered for PvE but such a buff will restore it to the usable shape we had for PvP prior to 1.6.

I agree. Stam builds suffer for picking Templar and that needs to change.

I believe all shield should be based off of Health or a combo of health something. To stack stats that make you a hit hard AND take less damage seems kind of silly and not balanced. A tank should mitigate better then a DPS. Health seems to be that balance point.

I've often said shields are the magicka block (which cost stamina) and dodge roll (which cost stamina). Since hard/soft caps have been removed its become harder to effectively have enough magicka for stam users to utilize class skills such as healing, and magicka users to block and dodge roll. Short of returning to the days of hard/soft caps I believe the magicka shield may need to be a little larger, by 30% ish percent. Is that something you could accept?

Something like (30% health) + ( magicka regen times 3). Drinks, potions, Radiant Aura, Repentance could buff it. Though Vamp 10% regen and Structured Entropy 8% health ... Obviously would take more then 5 mins of thought to balance out.

Of course Battle Spirit would have to be removed to make it worth anything still.

It took a couple rereads to understand what you are suggesting so correct me if I misinterpret. Your suggestion is to keep the base shield capacity as Health based and make the bonus capacity Magicka Recovery based? That is a solution that keeps it useful for Stamina while making it more Magicka oriented.

Before Battle Spirit reduced shield capacity, the 30% of Sun Shield was actually ample. It could take two hits, perhaps 4 if the strikes were weak, or more if exceptionally weak blows. However damage (along with everything) was soft capped back then, so it is not a strong comparison. Either way, having the base shield strength of Sun Shield be 30% Max HP in Cyrodiil is a starting point and one that will have people slotting it once more. The detection on the bonus capacity has always been wonky and unreliable (5m radius and enemy has to be in radius for full animation, it seems) so altering it to be calculated based off a Magicka stat is fine by me and likely others who used to use it.

For me in particular I often run a Recovery build so I would benefit from the new bonus capacity calculation, though not as much as a Magicka build. Now to go into math:

I have 1.2k Magicka Recovery but the common Magicka build has around 2k. One extreme build posted by a Sorcerer long ago had achieved 5.3k Recovery (at the cost of everything else, thankfully). That means an extra 6k on Sun Shield for common Magicka builds, 3k under Battle Spirit, and 7.9k for the edge case.

Average Health for non-tank builds is ~15k but I will use Joy_Division's 21k; I have 27k Health in Cyrodiil, but am not fully kitted as a Templar; as a fully kitted Dragonknight I have 29k so I will assume my Health will be the same once Ffastyl is kitted. I am aware niche builds can achieve far higher Health, namely 45k (51k assumed in Cyrodiil (Heavy Armor passives increase Health by a percentage)). Therefore the base capacities will be 6.3k (21k HP), 8.1k (27k HP), 8.7k (29k HP) and 13.5k (51k HP).

Adding in the bonus capacity from Magicka Recovery and we have:

• 21000 Health, 2000 Recovery - 9300 Capacity
• 21000 Health, 5300 Recovery - 14250 Capacity
• 27000 Health, 1200 Recovery - 9900 Capacity
• 29000 Health, 1200 Recovery - 10500 Capacity
• 51000 Health, 1500 Recovery - 15750 Capacity

All of these are strong enough to take a single Wrecking Blow, the edge cases almost strong enough for two. However it is possible to achieve 16k tooltip values on Wrecking Blow, as evidenced by a hardcore friend of mine (who shall remain anonymous until permitted otherwise).

Your current off-the-top-of-your-head balancing increases its usefulness to Magicka builds while still making it scale strongest with Health. And better than Hardened Ward, it does not scale with an offensive stat.

It must restated that the edge cases are builds that focused on these specific stats at the expense of everything else and are not viable nor common. The edge cases are included to show potential extremes and unlikely to occur ingame.

bigereard

Wow, there's so many love and cool idea for the templar here.
If I may join with my rantling (bad english version):

Just give my perspective for brainstorming purpose, based on the "house" concept.
I think about house that (1) rewards ally and (2) punish enemy, and (3) our own survival in our own house... of course...

---

For Bunker-Healer Build:

Healing Ritual -> how bout make it channeling-toggle (keep channeling until toggled off or interrupted), HoT area (12m), move slower when channeling, consume magicka rapidly & stunt magicka reg (or not?), can't do other action.

Morph (must renamed the morph I think):
(1) Decrease movement speed penalty (to non-existent at the max rank) and lowered cost
(2) Uninterruptable and increase damage reduction by 3%/4%/5%/6% (rank) when channeling this skill (stack mult. with other DR like cirlce of protection, nord's rugged, empowering sweep, etc) but at slightly increased cost. (lesser version of remembrance with little mobility)

Light weaver bonus: (if magicka reg is stunt) Increased restore magicka effect (not regen) by 50/100% (rank) when channeling this skill (be from potion, "channeled" focus, equipment set, constitution, argonian passive, etc) and/or give 1/2 (rank) ultimate to caster per 2 sec for every allies in this skill radius that under 60% health

Extended Ritual -> Also cleanse for every 6/5/4/3 (rank) sec

Radiant Aura -> Restore 0.7/0.8/0.9/1% (rank) of Magicka/Stamina/Heath every 2 sec for 12 sec OR restore 1.4/1.6/1.8/2% of highest attribute (whichever higher) every 2 sec for 12 sec (also good for self-sufficient blocking tank and mist tank)
OR could be fixed number instead of percentage OR could be depend on spell damage+magicka/damage+stamina (whichever higher)

Eclipse
-> create a ground targeted sphere/wall that reflects back any harmful single target spells that cross the sphere/wall
So if a templar & their team want to have complete reflect from all direction (for about 4-5 sec) he/she must cast at least 3 eclipse.

Morph:
(1) Total Dark: Enemy that cross the sphere/wall will be silence OR have the spell damage decreased and give HoT to caster that stack up to "x"time for every enemies that cross the sphere/wall.
(2) Unstable Core: Everytime the sphere/wall reflect spells and enemies cross the sphere/wall, unleash AoE magical damage that will also stun/slow enemies.

Solar Barrage -> Barrage every enemy in 6 m radius with 5/6/7/8 (rank) small single target damage spell. (the damage is very small)
The purpose is for anti-permablock (require 8 block to block 1 skill) and anti-reflect mechanism (DK's reflect).

---

For Health Oriented Build:

Sun Shield:
Instead of "Each successful hit increases the shield's strength by x%" -> how bout give additional shield proportional to the health loss (not percentage of health loss, but the number of the loss health, to encourage health build)

So if you have 40k health (13.2k shield from sun shield) and loss 30 k health, 33% (or less/more) from this health loss (10k) also add to the shield, the total would be 13.2 k + 10 k = 23,2k shield -> 11,6k shield in Cyro (x1.25 with max bastion champion, 14.5 k shield, reasonable number of damage shield in cyro I think, it'll destroyed after 1-2 skill crit lol).

With this concept blazing shield damage will increase, but keep in mind that's the only way health build can do considerable damage, and blazing shield is reactive damage.

Morph:
(1) Radiant Ward: Give allies a damage shield (12m radius) 30/31/32/33% of our shield and lowered cost
(2) Blazing Shield: Good as is it, but if I may recommend an alternative which more fit the morph name (and the house concept):
AoE HoT fire (8m) damage proportional to the damage shield (10/11/12/13% per sec maybe?) and do 20/21/22/23% magic damage based on the shield when shield destroyed (weaker version of original morph), last damage increased to 330% if the shield expired before destroyed.

The purpose is to make the blazing shield less reactive and to make people not ignore us (people usually "ignore" the tanky build in PvP).

If this too OP, we can reduce the number OR add the movement penalty when sun shield in effect, but increase the radius of the morph. (the house concept right?)

---

The name Templar have emphasis on holy heavily armored knight (in char creation we also get heavy armor and shield, templar armor in morrowind is also heavy), so I also think about skill that depends on health and/or resistance.
For example from the skills above:
We can make radiant aura base on total resistance or total health (or whichever higher)
The sun shield is also can based from the total resistance instead of total health (or whichever higher).

Khivas_Carrick

I'm struggling to understand why you people at ZoS are still managing to grossly f$*% up a class in such a way, especially when the entire population is agreeing on what's broken and what needs to be fixed.

This is why you're bleeding subs.

maxjapank

By the way, I wanted to say I agree with what @Cinbri said about Spear Shards.

It is pretty balanced and I am happy with how it works. It isn't so effective against one person, but in small group fights and larger ones, it is pretty powerful. And the ability to get back 25% of your stam makes it a great support skill to your teammates who synergize it. I do wish I could get some of the stam, myself, though.

Cinbri

Guyz there is only 2 weeks left till live so we must offer easily achievable and totally balanced(so ZOS won't waste time on theory) suggestions:

Cinbri wrote: »

@Joy_Division Yes, i agree that it too homoginized but that why i like @Solariken idea, especially after watching new trial and after changes made clear that ZOS don't know how to fix it::
"Surround yourself with the Void(we already have "dark" version of skill - Dark Flare) that absorb 4 incoming projectile and have bonus based on % of absorbed projectile(like small amount of stamina return)", like Absorb Magick morph, but unique. ZOS don't need even to create some new mechanic, they could take it from Absorb Magick morph; same with visual effect - floating shadows that previously used for Total Dark morph, it easily visible and opponent will understand why his damage not reaching target; it is easy to do in 2 left weeks. No secret that stamplars are spamming Cleansing Ritual to purify projectiles, so this change will be usefull for both magicka templars and stamplars.

Why we need it:
1. ZOS must realise that almost noone use Eclipse
2. ZOS must realize that after nerf even less people will use Eclipse
3. Once again they must realize that with new meta after people will realize that stacking on enemy = 1 shot by Detonation, they will split up and start using all kinds of ranged skill, so we will see much more snipers. And we all know who will be picked as easiest target - our "hold-your-home" class, that in fact can't hold anything and we will just die after tons of snipes on us.

Please support it, we need such improvements, for both stamina and magicka users; this will help to stay your ground.
1.It is strong, but won't make us immortal.
2.It is unique (Scales can reflect; Total Dark can absorb)
3.It is easy to make.(typed above)
^^All thing that Wrobel talked about. @Wrobel Our shield won't be fixed coz percentage and shieldstacking problem, OK, but this change don't have such problems and will make useless skill very usefull.
We don't wanna be left without any defense for next 4 months again.

Mr_Nobody

maxjapank wrote: »

By the way, I wanted to say I agree with what @Cinbri said about Spear Shards.

It is pretty balanced and I am happy with how it works. It isn't so effective against one person, but in small group fights and larger ones, it is pretty powerful. And the ability to get back 25% of your stam makes it a great support skill to your teammates who synergize it. I do wish I could get some of the stam, myself, though.

Spear shards very often make zerg blobs die due to random CCs on heal/purge/barrier bots. They do know how to spam 3 buttons, yet take some time to notice they are CC'd.

Idk about Templars in the upcoming patch anymore. Everything is pretty much the same and/or nerfed. Jabs had to be like that since the beginning and Jesus beam had to be fixed 2 days after IC release but it was not until now. Sigh.

Better fix the grinding spot within 2 hours of it being reported rather than many game breaking (PvP) stuff.

Any bets on what is going to get broken now? I bet on jabs not healing anymore after release and it not getting fixed until like August.

WillhelmBlack

47 pages. I've had enough, im playing Magicka NB for now. No need for block or bash cancelling, nice heals from just doing damage from range or AoE. Passives are ridiculously OP. Oh it's insanely fast, can disappear permanently and never runs out of magic.

Cinbri

WillhelmBlack wrote: »

47 pages. I've had enough, im playing Magicka NB for now. No need for block or bash cancelling, nice heals from just doing damage from range or AoE. Passives are ridiculously OP. Oh it's insanely fast, can disappear permanently and never runs out of magic.

Ye, the heals are so OP that ZOS even forced to tone it a bit. And they not hust have ultimate granting passive like tanking classes(dk, templar), but their passive of granting ult upon potions was buffed: 45cooldown of potion - 20 ult = 2.25 ult/sec gain passive. Thats why i asked to change Light Weaver passive to restore 2 ultimate to templar upon healing below 60%.

Soris

Cinbri wrote: »

Guyz there is only 2 weeks left till live so we must offer easily achievable and totally balanced(so ZOS won't waste time on theory) suggestions:

Cinbri wrote: »

@Joy_Division Yes, i agree that it too homoginized but that why i like @Solariken idea, especially after watching new trial and after changes made clear that ZOS don't know how to fix it::
"Surround yourself with the Void(we already have "dark" version of skill - Dark Flare) that absorb 4 incoming projectile and have bonus based on % of absorbed projectile(like small amount of stamina return)", like Absorb Magick morph, but unique. ZOS don't need even to create some new mechanic, they could take it from Absorb Magick morph; same with visual effect - floating shadows that previously used for Total Dark morph, it easily visible and opponent will understand why his damage not reaching target; it is easy to do in 2 left weeks. No secret that stamplars are spamming Cleansing Ritual to purify projectiles, so this change will be usefull for both magicka templars and stamplars.

Why we need it:
1. ZOS must realise that almost noone use Eclipse
2. ZOS must realize that after nerf even less people will use Eclipse
3. Once again they must realize that with new meta after people will realize that stacking on enemy = 1 shot by Detonation, they will split up and start using all kinds of ranged skill, so we will see much more snipers. And we all know who will be picked as easiest target - our "hold-your-home" class, that in fact can't hold anything and we will just die after tons of snipes on us.

Please support it, we need such improvements, for both stamina and magicka users; this will help to stay your ground.
1.It is strong, but won't make us immortal.
2.It is unique (Scales can reflect; Total Dark can absorb)
3.It is easy to make.(typed above)
^^All thing that Wrobel talked about. @Wrobel Our shield won't be fixed coz percentage and shieldstacking problem, OK, but this change don't have such problems and will make useless skill very usefull.
We don't wanna be left without any defense for next 4 months again.

Full support. I love that eclipse idea of @Solariken . I think it was originally "absorb 4 inc projectiles and blow up after" like blazing shield. Very templarish version of reflect. Return stamina idea is also very good, but i think it should be secondary effect. Stamina management should be handled via passives like buffed restoring spirit, or something new similar to helping hands passive of dks so we dont have to slot one single specific skill to get back stamina.
Even being able to pick up your own spears from blazing spears or a fixed radiant aura would help. Anything would help. Anything but reasonable, not 1%.

Nifty2g

First off, I love this game it is amazing and ever since launch I played a Sorcerer then made a move onto Templar back in 1.5 because I loved the class, it was a fun thing to do healing and then figuring out how to maximize my damage and healing at the same time and then that became my build. I needed to be very mobile to be able to do it and then that whole playstyle took a massive increase of volume of Templars doing it in 1.6, everyone started to become more mobile learning their class a lot more figuring out how to actually deal good damage on a Templar. I'd like to say Update 6 was pretty much the most perfect update a Templar has had since launch. This includes PvE and PvP a lot of Templar DPS arised from PvP and a lot of Stamplars too, with @Alcast and his crew shifting the meta in VDSA causing everyone to pretty much reroll a Stamplar.

So, I have been doing a lot of thinking about what @Wrobel said on ESOLive and what his newest vision was for Templars, making them a stable tank and welcoming people into their homes, and honestly it's making me want to stop playing this game altogether, because this whole game is about mobility, it's a fast paced action MMO with constant dynamic mechanics to the environment, constant dynamic AoE's that you need to move out from whether it be from PvE or PvP. The class as a whole is having it's mobility stripped away from it. Causing Templars to be still, taking on a whole new direction - an ugly direction

The issue here is that a lot of players do not want ZOS to take this direction with the class as it was so perfect how it was 2 updates ago and has been taking a lot of indirect nerfs and changes to it for absolutely no reason, it was the most rounded and diverse class, now there are many hidden internal cooldowns and broken abilities that are not explained nor touched on.

Now to the main issue, slowly and surely ZOS are trying to remove the Templar mobility, this is focused around Rune Focus and it's morphs - this game is heavily mobile, the whole welcome to our house does not work, it never will - and further more, didn't we try to bury this toxic play style when we decided to nerf Dragonknights into the ground? Why are you trying to bring it back for Templars in such an odd way that no one even wants?

1. There are many hidden cooldowns behind Puncturing Sweep and it feels so much weaker on PTS, theres something that hasn't been explained and ZOS are neglecting it.
2. Toppling Charge is being ignored and won't ever be fixed.
3. Sunshield is barely getting increases
4. Dark Flare has been buffed in conjunction to @Wrobels new amazing player housing idea. (we all see this)
5. The only class without access to Major Berserk
6. The Breath of Life nerf was completely unreasonable - you always wanted one class to be the healer, now this is being slowly stripped away from Templars and not being changed.

There are some really nice Templar changes in the PTS but honestly, the class is taking too much of a hit and it's ruining my personal experience and I hope Zenimax actually take this feedback from the Templar thread and fix up the class hugely.
I have no idea why ZOS thinks it's good to go around in circles when something is so well balanced and perfect they change it around and make it worse without actually talking to players and taking their feedback.

I sincerely hope ZOS that you listen to your playerbase for once especially on this issue.
@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_RichLambert

It's about time you guys stopped ignoring the issue and came out with a talk specifically about the issues with Templars.

Cinbri

Just for those who still hoping on any kind of speedbuff for templars - Wrobel made clear that it won't happen, they even nerfed major Movement buff from 40% to 30%, coz it was much easier to nerf it instead of giving templar even tiny speedbuff.

Destruent

danno8 wrote: »

@Joy_Division
Puncturing Sweep heal does not crit, but you get a proportional increase on the heal when the damage component crits.

So it acts like a crit in a very real sense, since we are dealing with multiplication.

I just tested this on live to be sure. With a normal Sweep hit of ~2300 the heal was ~1100, with a crit of ~3800 the heal was ~1900.

Strange things happen when Burning Light procs at the same time though, like was noted somewhere on these forums.

It's comparable with funnel health in it's core mechanic. But Funnel health heal can crit on it's own.
So you have:
1. normal dmg hit-normal heal
2. crit dmg - normal heal (based on the crit-dmg)
3. normal dmg - crit heal
4. crit dmg - crit heal (double-crit)

numbers 1 and 2 also happen with puncturing sweeps, numbers 3 and 4 doesn't.

Shouldn't be that problem to change puncturing sweeps (or funnel?) to fit this system.

BalticBlues

Nifty2g wrote: »

I'd like to say Update 6 was pretty much the most perfect update a Templar has had since launch. This includes PvE and PvP [...]

what @Wrobel said on ESOLive and what his newest vision was for Templars, making them a stable tank and welcoming people into their homes, and honestly it's making me want to stop playing this game altogether, because this whole game is about mobility [...]

ZOS are trying to remove the Templar mobility, this is focused around Rune Focus and it's morphs - this game is heavily mobile, the whole welcome to our house does not work, it never will - and further more, didn't we try to bury this toxic play style when we decided to nerf Dragonknights into the ground?

THIS. 100% signed.

The healing/rezzing nerfs will "only" seriosly harm PvE players trying to heal PUGs.
What finally could kill the Templar class for PvE and PvP is the mobility nerf.
PvP+PvE endgame content does not allow standing still and recasting circles again and again.

DKs already suffered an Exodus. Almost all my DK friends left the game or changed the class.
Result: It's almost impossible to find a DK Tank on consoles for a PUG.
ZOS now risk that Templars will be the next players on Exodus.
Will Sorcs and NBs be strong enough to carry the game in PvP and PvE alone?

WillhelmBlack

BalticBlues wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

I'd like to say Update 6 was pretty much the most perfect update a Templar has had since launch. This includes PvE and PvP [...]

what @Wrobel said on ESOLive and what his newest vision was for Templars, making them a stable tank and welcoming people into their homes, and honestly it's making me want to stop playing this game altogether, because this whole game is about mobility [...]

ZOS are trying to remove the Templar mobility, this is focused around Rune Focus and it's morphs - this game is heavily mobile, the whole welcome to our house does not work, it never will - and further more, didn't we try to bury this toxic play style when we decided to nerf Dragonknights into the ground?

THIS. 100% signed.

The healing/rezzing nerfs will "only" seriosly harm PvE players trying to heal PUGs.
What finally could kill the Templar class for PvE and PvP is the mobility nerf.
PvP+PvE endgame content does not allow standing still and recasting circles again and again.

DKs already suffered an Exodus. Almost all my DK friends left the game or changed the class.
Result: It's almost impossible to find a DK Tank on consoles for a PUG.
ZOS now risk that Templars will be the next players on Exodus.
Will Sorcs and NBs be strong enough to carry the game in PvP and PvE alone?

Already had a successful emperor run in an 8 man group with my NB healer.

SeptimusDova

I am going to take some time and compose some music for my star citizen videos.At least there from the Devs to the CEO we have an open line of communication.Unlike here in which the customers/clients are ignored.ZOS you need to study how CIG is with Communications/Feedback and Interaction with the customers/clients/backers. Ol' Chris can show you a few things.

You had one mass exodus shortly after launch. Another at patch 1.6 another at patch 1.7 And if you think one wont happen when this goes live then you need to step back from the kool aid.

this thread is 47 pages long we have had one mod come in and do the mod thing. No comments from Dev's or E.W in ANY of the Class threads. So this leads me to believe if it is superficial like this thread below

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/245038/official-feedback-thread-for-prioritization-of-combat-animations#latest

That thread has had four dev comments.

Then we will see dev interaction. Is this by Design? Has someone said to ignore our feedback?Why are we here?

BalticBlues

SeptimusDova wrote: »

this thread is 47 pages long [...] No comments from Dev's or E.W

The core problem with this thread seems to be that it questions the entire Templar design and direction. Players see that their once viable and fun to play Templars degrade with each patch into a more unviable and less fun to play class. Not because it is necessary, but because it is intended. The core problem:

ZOS' class designer wants Templars to be slow and players to stay in their "house".
ZOS' content designers want people to be fast and constantly moving.
This contradicting game design does not work anymore, and players are noticing it.

I once had the priviledge to work for a team of one of the best computer game designers of this world, Sid Meier (best known for "Civilization"). Several magazines put Meier at the top of their listing of the "Most Influential People in Computer Gaming of All Time". Meier is incredibly bright and successful, but everybody makes mistakes, and he would be the first to admit he also did. From his less successful designs, Sid gives this advice:

Sid Meier: "The Player Should Have The Fun, Not The Designer Or The Computer"
In Sid’s words, the player must be the "star": "As designers, we need to be the player’s greatest advocate during a game’s development, always considering carefully how design decisions affect the player’s agency in the world."

This thread shows why Templars are losing the fun, feeling more like victims instead of "stars".
We need the help of a designer who brings back the fun, not takes even more of it.
We need the help of a designer who puts our fun in the game first, not his fun as designer.
We need the help of a designer who designs class skills according to content requirements.

timidobserver

Nifty2g wrote: »

First off, I love this game it is amazing and ever since launch I played a Sorcerer then made a move onto Templar back in 1.5 because I loved the class, it was a fun thing to do healing and then figuring out how to maximize my damage and healing at the same time and then that became my build. I needed to be very mobile to be able to do it and then that whole playstyle took a massive increase of volume of Templars doing it in 1.6, everyone started to become more mobile learning their class a lot more figuring out how to actually deal good damage on a Templar. I'd like to say Update 6 was pretty much the most perfect update a Templar has had since launch. This includes PvE and PvP a lot of Templar DPS arised from PvP and a lot of Stamplars too, with @Alcast and his crew shifting the meta in VDSA causing everyone to pretty much reroll a Stamplar.

So, I have been doing a lot of thinking about what @Wrobel said on ESOLive and what his newest vision was for Templars, making them a stable tank and welcoming people into their homes, and honestly it's making me want to stop playing this game altogether, because this whole game is about mobility, it's a fast paced action MMO with constant dynamic mechanics to the environment, constant dynamic AoE's that you need to move out from whether it be from PvE or PvP. The class as a whole is having it's mobility stripped away from it. Causing Templars to be still, taking on a whole new direction - an ugly direction

The issue here is that a lot of players do not want ZOS to take this direction with the class as it was so perfect how it was 2 updates ago and has been taking a lot of indirect nerfs and changes to it for absolutely no reason, it was the most rounded and diverse class, now there are many hidden internal cooldowns and broken abilities that are not explained nor touched on.

Now to the main issue, slowly and surely ZOS are trying to remove the Templar mobility, this is focused around Rune Focus and it's morphs - this game is heavily mobile, the whole welcome to our house does not work, it never will - and further more, didn't we try to bury this toxic play style when we decided to nerf Dragonknights into the ground? Why are you trying to bring it back for Templars in such an odd way that no one even wants?

1. There are many hidden cooldowns behind Puncturing Sweep and it feels so much weaker on PTS, theres something that hasn't been explained and ZOS are neglecting it.
2. Toppling Charge is being ignored and won't ever be fixed.
3. Sunshield is barely getting increases
4. Dark Flare has been buffed in conjunction to @Wrobels new amazing player housing idea. (we all see this)
5. The only class without access to Major Berserk
6. The Breath of Life nerf was completely unreasonable - you always wanted one class to be the healer, now this is being slowly stripped away from Templars and not being changed.

There are some really nice Templar changes in the PTS but honestly, the class is taking too much of a hit and it's ruining my personal experience and I hope Zenimax actually take this feedback from the Templar thread and fix up the class hugely.
I have no idea why ZOS thinks it's good to go around in circles when something is so well balanced and perfect they change it around and make it worse without actually talking to players and taking their feedback.

I sincerely hope ZOS that you listen to your playerbase for once especially on this issue.
@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_RichLambert

It's about time you guys stopped ignoring the issue and came out with a talk specifically about the issues with Templars.

The reaaaally insane part is that if you read the previous Templar feedback thread from before the patch, just about every Templar cited mobility as an issue. After reading that, not only did they not make us more mobile, they decided to make changes that make us even less mobile. Then they take it a step further on ESO live by telling us that our immobility is a feature.

contact.opiumb16_ESO

BalticBlues wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

I'd like to say Update 6 was pretty much the most perfect update a Templar has had since launch. This includes PvE and PvP [...]

what @Wrobel said on ESOLive and what his newest vision was for Templars, making them a stable tank and welcoming people into their homes, and honestly it's making me want to stop playing this game altogether, because this whole game is about mobility [...]

ZOS are trying to remove the Templar mobility, this is focused around Rune Focus and it's morphs - this game is heavily mobile, the whole welcome to our house does not work, it never will - and further more, didn't we try to bury this toxic play style when we decided to nerf Dragonknights into the ground?

THIS. 100% signed.

The healing/rezzing nerfs will "only" seriosly harm PvE players trying to heal PUGs.
What finally could kill the Templar class for PvE and PvP is the mobility nerf.
PvP+PvE endgame content does not allow standing still and recasting circles again and again.

DKs already suffered an Exodus. Almost all my DK friends left the game or changed the class.
Result: It's almost impossible to find a DK Tank on consoles for a PUG.
ZOS now risk that Templars will be the next players on Exodus.
Will Sorcs and NBs be strong enough to carry the game in PvP and PvE alone?

Yes, they are. In fact sorcerers can do tank/dps/healer, while NB can tank/dps/heal... wait, they have all we need to clean the whole content in the game, and do it better than DK who are supposed to be tank, and templar who are supposed to be healers !? Yes ! ZOS logic...

Neoauspex

Ffastyl wrote: »

I'm honored by the nomination, but... Why me?

Credible Stamina and Magika representatives. I wonder what ZoS would do if a Templar Union tried to schedule a meeting for negotiations...

SeptimusDova

They would tell us to go back to our house

Essiaga

contact.opiumb16_ESO wrote: »

BalticBlues wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

I'd like to say Update 6 was pretty much the most perfect update a Templar has had since launch. This includes PvE and PvP [...]

what @Wrobel said on ESOLive and what his newest vision was for Templars, making them a stable tank and welcoming people into their homes, and honestly it's making me want to stop playing this game altogether, because this whole game is about mobility [...]

ZOS are trying to remove the Templar mobility, this is focused around Rune Focus and it's morphs - this game is heavily mobile, the whole welcome to our house does not work, it never will - and further more, didn't we try to bury this toxic play style when we decided to nerf Dragonknights into the ground?

THIS. 100% signed.

The healing/rezzing nerfs will "only" seriosly harm PvE players trying to heal PUGs.
What finally could kill the Templar class for PvE and PvP is the mobility nerf.
PvP+PvE endgame content does not allow standing still and recasting circles again and again.

DKs already suffered an Exodus. Almost all my DK friends left the game or changed the class.
Result: It's almost impossible to find a DK Tank on consoles for a PUG.
ZOS now risk that Templars will be the next players on Exodus.
Will Sorcs and NBs be strong enough to carry the game in PvP and PvE alone?

Yes, they are. In fact sorcerers can do tank/dps/healer, while NB can tank/dps/heal... wait, they have all we need to clean the whole content in the game, and do it better than DK who are supposed to be tank, and templar who are supposed to be healers !? Yes ! ZOS logic...

I read it as will people accept playing the 2 classes. Don't forget that DK got some work to so I think they'll be improved and many people will see them as the fotm.

Only way I see people rolling a templar is if Dark Flare doesn't get nerfed. Beyond that I don't think we got what we needed to make us break even this patch. We're less able to 'stand our ground' which includes no more capable of tanking PVE.

bowmanz607

Essiaga wrote: »

contact.opiumb16_ESO wrote: »

BalticBlues wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

I'd like to say Update 6 was pretty much the most perfect update a Templar has had since launch. This includes PvE and PvP [...]

what @Wrobel said on ESOLive and what his newest vision was for Templars, making them a stable tank and welcoming people into their homes, and honestly it's making me want to stop playing this game altogether, because this whole game is about mobility [...]

ZOS are trying to remove the Templar mobility, this is focused around Rune Focus and it's morphs - this game is heavily mobile, the whole welcome to our house does not work, it never will - and further more, didn't we try to bury this toxic play style when we decided to nerf Dragonknights into the ground?

THIS. 100% signed.

The healing/rezzing nerfs will "only" seriosly harm PvE players trying to heal PUGs.
What finally could kill the Templar class for PvE and PvP is the mobility nerf.
PvP+PvE endgame content does not allow standing still and recasting circles again and again.

DKs already suffered an Exodus. Almost all my DK friends left the game or changed the class.
Result: It's almost impossible to find a DK Tank on consoles for a PUG.
ZOS now risk that Templars will be the next players on Exodus.
Will Sorcs and NBs be strong enough to carry the game in PvP and PvE alone?

Yes, they are. In fact sorcerers can do tank/dps/healer, while NB can tank/dps/heal... wait, they have all we need to clean the whole content in the game, and do it better than DK who are supposed to be tank, and templar who are supposed to be healers !? Yes ! ZOS logic...

I read it as will people accept playing the 2 classes. Don't forget that DK got some work to so I think they'll be improved and many people will see them as the fotm.

Only way I see people rolling a templar is if Dark Flare doesn't get nerfed. Beyond that I don't think we got what we needed to make us break even this patch. We're less able to 'stand our ground' which includes no more capable of tanking PVE.

ya i think fotm will be mag dk and/or mag sorc. mag is the min/max build until they adjust ability damages.