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Official Feedback Thread for Templars

Community Manager
This is the official feedback thread for the Templar. Please let us know how you feel about the changes we made to this class, if you ran into any bugs, and any other feedback you'd like to give.
Gina Bruno
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Staff Post
  • UrQuan
    Still downloading the PTS patch, so this isn't yet based on any game experience, but from what I read in the patch notes here are my thoughts:
    • Blazing Spear: yup, it should have always been like that
    • Focused Charge: I hope this bug fix actually works, as I'd love for this ability to work properly
    • Piercing Javelin: good change - the range was one of the main reasons why I never slotted this
    • Puncturing Strikes: awesome, I love this change
    • Radial Sweep: not a big difference, but a good change that makes this a little more viable for tanking
    • Radiant Ward: also not a big difference, but a good change that makes this a little more viable for tanking
    • Backlash: hmm, I'm undecided. I'll have to try this out before deciding if this change is good or not
    • Eclipse: changes sound good - this could make the skill legitimately useful
    • Enduring Rays: this amounts to a bit of a nerf to some skills and a buff to others. On balance I like this change.
    • Nova: good changes to make the synergy better
    • Radiant Destruction: a needed bug fix
    • Solar Flare: a helpful change, but this skill isn't typically used for its damage anyway
    • Unstable Core: this helps to differentiate it more from the other morph. I'm undecided on whether I think it's a worthwhile skill though
    • Vampire's Bane: a good change to make this morph more viable, but not enough to make me want to choose it over Reflective Light
    • Breath of Life: this won't make a big difference to how I play, but this will have a serious negative impact on PUG dungeon runs. A straight-up nerf where none was needed
    • Cleansing Ritual: sensible changes
    • Focused Healing: this change reduces the mobility of the healer, while allowing for more mobility for other members of the group. I'm unsure how I feel about this one, and it will require testing
    • Healing Ritual: even with the reduced cast time, I can't see myself ever slotting this skill.
    • Radiant Aura: interesting change - it gives us a new tool to support magicka users in our groups. I'm undecided on whether it will be competitive with the other morph, but I like the thinking behind it
    • Restoring Focus: a decent change, but not enough to make me choose this over Channeled Focus
    • Rite of Passage: hmm, I get that this is kind of a bug fix, but it makes you able to use this in fewer situations. Not a big deal I guess, and it's better than making the channel end prematurely.
    • Rune Focus: clearer tool tips are always a good thing.

    So on balance I'm happy with these changes. The only one that I would argue against is Breath of Life. I don't see any reason at all for that nerf, or for failing to compensate for it with reduced cost or something else to balance that out.
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  • BRogueNZ
    Pretty meh to say the least.

    Only thing good I've read so far is the ability to reflect physical projectiles.

    I do appreciate the CP changes though, not class specific of course but for the better alterations.
    Edited by BRogueNZ on February 4, 2016 2:03AM
  • Reorx_Holybeard
    A little underwhelmed by the changes even without considering the nerf to BoL.
    • Radial Sweep -- Don't tease us with a 1m extension. Needs a much larger range or more damage/utility.
    • Radiant Ward -- A 1% increase seems pointless for this skill. How this skill works really needs to be changed completely or replaced with a different one.
    • Backlash -- I don't understand the change here but it seems like a huge net loss for this skillline (from 45% extra damage to 22%). Did you change the healing portion of Purifying Light as well (looks like the duration decreased from 7.2 to 6.0 sec)?
    • Enduring Rays -- Its unclear from the patch notes but does this ability actually increase damage for the affected skills now?
    • Balanced Warrior -- No mention of adding spell damage to this passive?
    • Vampire’s Bane -- Did you just increase the DoT duration or the duration and damage? Typically it seems whenever you increase DoT duration you actually lower the DoT damage ticks.
    • Unstable Core -- So is this just another Magicka Detonation now? If so it needs more damage as it doesn't have the built-in increase when hitting multiple players (6000 compared to MD's 10000-20000).
    • Breath of Life -- I'm not sure why you'd make such a significant change to a class defining spell. I wouldn't mind if we got something significant in exchange for it. I liked this skill for 4-man PVE content as if I can keep from being damaged (which is a lot of the time) then one BoL will heal the entire party.
    • Healing Ritual -- The changes really do nothing for this skill line. You should remove the cast time and change the skill completely to something we'd use.

    There's a few nice changes there but they seem relatively minor overall. I can finally use Focused Charge safely, no more stun on PS is good for PVP but was nice in PVE, the change to Focused Healing is probably the biggest (and nicest) change.

    Thinking about how this all might change my playstyle for solo/group PVE and I can't think of any positive change. I'll have to adapt to a weaker BoL and probably won't bother using Backlash the little I did use it. Thinking about vMSA runs and there's no change that really helps me unless I completely change my playstyle (which might be a good in the end).
    Edited by Reorx_Holybeard on February 4, 2016 2:31AM
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  • Ffastyl
    I have to say... I was expecting a buff to active defenses. Templar would get some form of evasion or a Stamina morph to a class heal. What we got was a number of offensive improvements. While nice and undeniably buffs... they missed the mark. While some abilities may be more useable, like Binding Javelin and Biting Jabs, Templars are still missing a solid form of active defense. We have an armor buff (Rune Focus), a wonky reflect (Eclipse), an underwhelming damage shield (Sun Shield), and class healing only accessible to Magicka or Hybrid builds. Having some ability grant Major Evasion or be replaced with one that does would help. Bringing back Miss Chance debuffs in a weakened state would be a helpful alternative, allowing Templars better crowd control against, well, crowds. A 20% or 15% Miss Chance would be acceptable, the former to match Major Evasion or the latter to compensate for the AoE debuff nature.

    Either way, Templar has lacked the defense I enjoy since Update 7, when the Damage stacking started to hit critical mass. The active defenses were removed and/or crippled over the course of Update 6 and 7.

    Strong inclass healing has compensated for this... but that healing is only strong for Magicka builds.

    I'd write a more detailed post, but it's too soon to formulate some objective thoughts and suggestions and reiterate on them. For now I needed to put down my immediate feelings on the matter.
    Edited by Ffastyl on February 4, 2016 2:53AM
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  • Dread_Guy
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  • imredneckson
    This is the official feedback thread for the Templar. Please let us know how you feel about the changes we made to this class, if you ran into any bugs, and any other feedback you'd like to give.

    Thank you for the nerfs now we Templars will be as useless as magicka DKs in PvP. Time to reroll AGAIN to the only TWO viable classes left.
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  • Hiero_Glyph
    I think ZOS forgot to include the stamina morphs for Templar in the patch notes. Please add them next update.
    Edited by Hiero_Glyph on February 4, 2016 3:11AM
  • timidobserver

    Thanks for the undocumented buff to healing ritual.

    EDIT: To see this buff put on a Xivken costume and turn up your volume. Then use healing ritual. Listen closely. This makes the skill useful now.
    Edited by timidobserver on February 4, 2016 3:13AM
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  • Mos-De-Atmo
    It's been said but I too was hoping for a bigger improvement to Radiant Ward. The bonus to Blazing Shield is obviously the damage so I always got the impression that Radiant is supposed to be the more "defensive" of the two options. The extra shield strength on hit attempts to address this but in situations where the shield is gone in one hit (often) this is of no benefit.

    What about making it act a bit like that new item set (can't remember the name) in that it gives you a damage shield of perhaps lower value but it refreshes every 2 seconds for 6 seconds. Another way to go might be to simply increase the shield value for the Radiant morph, to 40% or 45% or something?
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  • tinythinker
    Initial feedback for @Wrobel and team.

    Taking stock we have...

    Many clearly good changes:
    -Puncturing Strikes trades knockback for snare (I and other asked for this -- thanks)
    -Enduring Rays passive modified to not be a nerf to some Dawn's Wrath abilities (I and others asked for this -- thanks)
    -Focused Healing passive no longer requires my allies to be inside the radius of Cleansing Ritual to get increased healing from me
    -more damage with Dark Flare
    -increased Javelin range (I asked for that, so thanks)
    -fix for Focused Charge, assuming it works this time (many asked for this, thanks and fingers crossed)
    -buff to Nova
    -buff to Vampire's Bane

    Some changes that may be good or may be kind of a net zero:
    -changes to Backlash
    -changes to Eclipse
    -changes to Healing Ritual

    Some changes that are too small to matter:
    -changes to Healing Ritual (yeah, it's on two lists)
    -changes to Radial Sweep
    -changes to Sun Shield
    -changes to Radiant Aura

    A change that has ticked a lot of Templars off:
    -nerf to Breath of Life

    This is based *solely* on patch notes and my experience as a Templar. I will post a follow-up comment or edit this one once I get more playing time on the PTS.

    Despite how pessimistic many players are, I do welcome the clearly good changes and the possibly good changes. I am underwhelmed by the changes too small to matter.

    For the underwhelming/too small changes, Radial Sweep has always been fine for tanking and solo play. It isn't a priority for me. If you want to buff it or make it better, my old recommendation stands.
    The Empowering Sweep morph works for being tanky in PvE on large pulls because of the damage reduction, so I use it when fighting large groups of mobs while solo adventuring. I just collect them and use Empowering Sweep, Blazing Shield, Puncturing Sweep. You can go all day like that because of the low ult cost with as many trash mobs as you want, the more enemies the better. I wouldn't use it in PvP. It also works if you're an actual tank in group play.

    Crescent Sweep is meant to be a small burst+dot focusing on enemies in front of the player (33% more damage to enemies in front of the caster on the initial hit). It's more like a really strong AoE regular skill than an ultimate but that is probably tied to it being relatively cheap. Adding in something like a debuff to those caught in the +33% strike would be nice though and might make it better for PvP as an opening hit. Either major breach (significantly reduced spell resistance) since it does magicka damage or both minor breach+minor fracture (moderately reduced spell + physical resistance) would be nice. Just pop Cresent, hit your morph of Puncturing Strikes, and enjoy. Either that or up the damage on the initial hit to those standing in the frontal cone area of effect to 50%.

    As for Sun Shield, again, my prior suggestions are still relevant. This ability I would like to see made more valuable, and is more important to me on the priority list than Radial Sweep.
    Increase shield strength to 40% of caster's health for Sun Shield and its morphs. Double the damage on activation for Radiant Ward while either Stunning or Knocking Back those caught in the blast of the activation. Add Disorient (same as Stun but also ends if target takes damage) or Knock Back to enemies in range of the AoE damage effect when Blazing Shield explodes.

    Radiant Aura? I don't know. I never use it. Never did. Not sure why I would.

    Healing Ritual still has that cast time, so, lowering the cast time a little but also lowering the healing done doesn't make it more attractive. I get having something that snares you as a penalty for how good the healing is, but, this game isn't forgiving of a lack of mobility. This ability could be: made into a great choice for healer/tanks (it was almost there in it's current version on live, i.e. 2.2x), have protection/mitigation added for regular healers so they don't die casting it, or turned into a mobile AoE HoT but with some debuff to damage for a certain period of time after casting.

    As for the most controversial change, I can understand there are balance and gameplay concerns. If Templars have an easy button on healing and also get some damage buffs, maybe some of you devs think something has to give. OK, let's go with that for the sake of argument. Yet, Breath of Life still beats both Healing Ritual and morphs as well as its twin Honor the Dead. Its instant cast and lack of snare make it hands down a better choice than Healing Ritual, and the fact that it still hits more targets than HoD means that A.) it's more likely to heal the caster and B.) it helps the group more. Unless a player is having serious sustain issue, there is no reason to slot HoD.

    If you are going to keep the changes to BoL, which I can live with if it comes to that, you still need to do something good and something clever with HR and HoD. Maybe if HoD gives back 80%-90% of its cost, or gives back 60% in half the time it currently takes to do so, it would be more attractive since either change makes it super cheap to cast. Or, maybe HoD keeps the current rebate size and recovery time but tosses bigger heals. Those are simplistic ideas with no real attempt at being creative (I'm in a hurry to get back to the PTS). I am sure you devs can do better. But as things stand, why would anyone want to trade more/faster healing for less/slower healing?

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    OK, well, after trying a few things, the changes to Eclipse have good intentions and an OK start but miss the mark. The problem with Eclipse has, from the very beginning, been about cost-benefit.

    When it *only* worked on single-target spells and you could spam it on multiple targets in PvP, you still had to hope one of them was a magicka-based caster who you just caught off guard in mid-cast of a single-target spell. In PvE, many bosses were immune and why slot Eclipse on the off chance you might run into a single-target spell spamming trash mob? So people complained.

    Changed were made that let you be healed for each reflected spell in one of the morphs (Total Dark), but, the same problems listed above still applied.

    More changes were made so you couldn't spam it. Above listed problems became worse.

    And now...?

    Now, it works against all projectiles, spell or physical, but not all single-target spells. That sounds like a fair trade, but it isn't. Unlike other reflective abilities, it only works against a single target that you have to be aware of and that you must target via line-of-sight. Plus, people can Break Free with no penalty and gain crowd-control immunity. So, you could have it reflect every ability in the game, which would be OP for PvE, but in PvP it would still be a bust. Literally. Get it?

    Sooo... as I've repeatedly suggested, please, whether Eclipse reflects single-target spells, or all projectiles, or abilities that begin with the letter R, add in a penalty for Breaking Free. Have the target take 2.5-3x the normal end of bubble damage so that there is a reason to not just Break Free and gain CC immunity. Make it a strategic decision, not an obvious and risk-free choice.

    As for the changes to Unstable Core, I am rewriting this part a bit. After more testing it's more useful than I thought it was, for PvE at least, but the mobs often don't stay close enough for the AoE to hit each other. Taking time to tag multiple mobs is more work than just hitting them and killing them with other abilities. Maybe add something like a small snare, or a loss of some modest amount of magicka and stamina upon detonation, or a short stun upon detonation, or something.

    Edited by tinythinker on February 4, 2016 5:02PM
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  • SeventhCelestial
    Before we start re-rolling characters let's remember that this is the PTS, and changes can happen from this.

    Heh. :|

    Anyways, I cringed when I heard Templars got Nerfs, not buffs. I mean. What. . .? What the actual what?
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  • Baconlad
    Undo the nerf through battle sport just for health based shields...congrats you've just buffed the shields, they could also use a minor buff anyway to shield strength. Blazing shield should absorb 10k minimum with even 20k health. Also increase the shield duration, 6 seconds is bad. Biggest issue would be health stackers in cyrodil would be getting like a 20k shield with 10k NON CRIT damage AOE. So...but the shield, nerf the damage, make radiant last longer or some
  • Alabyn
    "Focused Healing: This passive ability now grants you the Major Mending buff while standing in your own Cleansing Ritual, Rune Focus, or Rite of Passage area effects and for up to 2/4 seconds after leaving them at Ranks I/II, instead of granting you 15/30% more healing to allies standing in your own Cleansing Ritual, Rune Focus, or Rite of Passage"

    This is great! No longer do the DPS need to stay within the purifying circle for me to give them the major mending 30% buff. Only I need to stay in that circle now.

    This, combined with the improvement to essence drain giving major mending after heavy attacks is a nice boost the Templar healing.
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