Official Feedback Thread for Templars

maxjapank

I've read so many suggestions here, but with the DLC coming out in less than a month, I just don't see many changes happening, especially if they require lots of re-work with the coding and/or skill. So...

What are two simple changes you would like to see?? Mine are:

1) Buff the Resoring light passive in the Dawn's Wraith tree. That's the one that reduces Magicka, Stamina, and Ultimate ability costs. I'd be happy with another 2-4% buff here. It would help both Magicka and Stamina Templars (Tanks, healers, and damage dealers).

2) Allow Rune Focus morph effects to last 8 seconds after you leave the rune, the same as Major Resolve and Major Ward. This would be make both morphs appealing and allow a bit of mobility for more engaging play.

CP5

Liking some of the suggestions i'm seeing here, Solariken that revised write up does look good. A few additions that I think could fit could be things like:

Making Jabs interrupt, its a flurry of spear attacks, a channeled skill in that should be denied.

Perhaps make one of the shield morphs a preemptive buff like defensive rune that procs on damage, making sure the templar gets the shield up when they need it.

Another idea would be to make one of the shields no longer a shield but a mid duration 8% damage reduction and if you took x amount of damage in that time it could either automatically or with a synergy/recast, make a strong pbaoe damage/knockback for better crowd control.

I really think the class has a lot of areas they could be made far more interesting in, just hope this doesn't become another year of silence from ZOS.

Husan

MissBizz wrote: »

BullNetch wrote: »

Radburn wrote: »

Suggestions for Breath of Life & Honor the Dead:

1. They should both self heal if the caster is at 50% - self preservation. Smart healing causes some grief when there are more than 4 players who are all getting smacked (pvp)
2. Have a crafted set with a 5 piece bonus that improves rushed ceremony adding 1 extra minor heal to both morphs. This would force Templars to "specialize" their build towards making BoL strong and at the same time make both morphs desirable.

This would suck. This ain't WoW, there are no class restricted sets.

The only guaranteed magicka self heals are blessing of protection(combat prayer/blessing of resto) and energy orb. Ward ally is the most powerful self bubble available to everyone.

with the major mending buff... templars could try slamming combat prayer like stam builds slam vigor.

cleanse/self bubble/slam combat prayer

@BullNetch Class specific sets do already exist. The Necropotence set increases max magicka while you have pets active. Sorcs are the only ones with pets.

While you are correct that the necropotence set is meant for sorcs, technically speaking sorcs are not the only ones with pets. Nightblade shades are pets as well, so are the summoned dwemer spheres from engine guardian and the deadroth from maw of infernal. I believe necropotence works on all of those. Of course it probably isn't the most practical, but I just wanted to point out this set - while obviously catered to sorcs - is in fact not sorc exclusive AKA class specific.

sabresandiego_ESO

You guys have done an amazing job with the Thieves Guild patch. Although I have not had the chance to play it yet, I have been very busy with my business and taking a snowboarding trip tomorrow, I have looked over the patch notes and am very impressed. You definitely listened to my feedback as well as that of many other pvp players.

The feedback on the forums is very mixed, particularly because the masses are generally biased towards their own class and can't adapt to changes very well. Every balance patch renews the game and makes it fun again (by changing the way it plays), but also angers a vocal minority who cant deal with change.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VNGFep6rncY

When it comes to high performance, the masses are always wrong. Consulting the masses on balance issues is a mistake, as their bias and lack of understanding will always lead to suggestions that are incorrect. Consulting with high performing players regarding balance is a much better route. At the same time, you want to keep the masses happy, because they comprise the majority of your playerbase. I think you guys have done that with this patch, it looks quite amazing, addresses major issues, has only minor nerfs that shouldnt rouse anger among the masses to a great extent, and provides a slightly new ruleset to keep the game new and refreshing. I always find myself hardly playing at all for a month or two before big content releases, and then finding renewed enthusiasm for the game after a big content patch, especially with balance changes.

Feedback:

I wont talk about everything in the patch, because that would take forever. Ill gives some feedback for templar/nb and the meta as a solo/small group oriented pvp player.

-Champion changes look great, and seem quite balanced. Physical damage was slightly superior in pvp on live, now it may be balanced or slightly inferior but I wont know until testing. I'd also suggest making flawless dawnbreaker morph physical damage now that there is physical damage reduction in the cp tree.

-Dark cloak and stealth have been given better counters, great changes here. I think flare still needs significant improvement, providing some kind of benefit other than just revealing enemies. My personal suggestion would be to make it similar to a stamina version of magelight, and having it slotted should provide minor brutality.

-Fantastic changes to breath of life, funnel health, purge, barrier, and other abilities which were making larger groups unkillable.

-The new pvp sets look amazing and fun, and finally give some options to pvp players besides agility and willpower. Of particular note is fasallas, which looks to be amazing and helps address overpowered pvp healing. The set is extremely well designed considering you have to sacrifice both damage and sustain in order to use it. This gives classes and builds that lack healing debuffs an alternate route to use it as well. The only problem here is that healing debuffs seem to be stacking, preventing players from healing completely. I do not think that major defile from something like death stroke, or disease enchants, should stack with fasallas curse. Additionally, dot ticks should not trigger fasallas curse because you should be able to counter the sets healing debuff by either cleansing or not using "active attacks" on the enemy until the curse wears off, then healing afterwards. The problem right now is that if you have a dot on the enemy, the curse will never wear off, and if u cleanse it, the dot you have on the enemy will cause the curse to reapply. Channeled, pulsing, and DOT damage should not continue to proc the curse. Healing debuffs should not stack with fasalas. The set needs to be kept with no cooldown however to remain worth using and befoul CP should improve the curse as it does major defile.

-Piercing Javelin and its morphs range increase was much needed but the ability still seems a little bit lacking, especially when compared to other class CC's like mass hysteria, streak, and petrify.

-Blazing spear and focused charge animations are too slow. Feel unresponsive as well.

-Jabs/Sweeps changes are great, however stamina templars are still in a tough place damage wise because burning light procs are magic damage, and dont seem to proc on damage shields. In addition, damage shields seem to negate the 170% damage modifier for jabs/sweeps on primary target. Seems that every stamina class has to deal with some procs/abilities being magic or elemental damage so thats fine, but something needs to be done for templars to have a reasonable method for dealing with damage shields. Biting jabs and puncturing sweeps absolutely need to be fixed to work on damage shields correctly, doing the proper 170% damage to the shield as well as properly proccing burning light. Finally, the 70% snare should apply from every single jab that hits, from the first to the last. Jabs/sweeps is extremely easy to dance around at high skill level pvp play, and has enough counters as is with things like hardy, thick skinned, and blade cloak. Moving out of jabs/sweeps is too easy, and any latency compounds this.

-Rune focus secondary effects falling off immediately after leaving the focus is fine, but the major resolve needs to last much longer than 8 seconds after leaving the focus. Things like shadow barrier have a near 100% uptime and are totally passive, yet rune focus makes you immobile and is worse on top of it. Having a stand your ground immobility rewarded mechanic is fine to differentiate the classes, particularly for the secondary effects such as magicka regain from channeled focus, or minor protection from the other morph, but the armor and spell resist buffs should last as long as others do: at least 20 seconds even if you leave the focus.

-Templar ultimates are horrible in pvp. There is almost no reason to use either morph of the aedric spear ultimate instead of either morph of dawnbreaker, or to use the healing ultimate instead of barrier. The improved range by 1m on the aedric sweep ultimate is insignificant and the ability still misses constantly, particularly when elevation changes are nearby, and doesnt hit dodge rollers like dawnbreaker. I would suggest lowering the ultimate cost to 50, fixing the fact that it doesnt hit targets, make it hit dodge rollers, and make one of the morphs do physical damage. Compare how bad this ultimate is in pvp to one of the best ultimates like death stroke.

-Restoring aura looks to be worthless in pvp. Repentance is good in groups but worthless as a solo player or dueler, and the other morph makes no sense because of tripots.

-The purifying ritual fix was great, the nerf was needed. This remains the templars strongest pvp ability and is class defining. The ability is so good that it is as class defining for templars as streak is for sorcerrors and fear is for nightblades.

-Many of the passives templars have seem worthless if you are a stamina templar

That is my feedback for now. Great Patch and I look forward to updates!

MissBizz

Husan wrote: »

MissBizz wrote: »

BullNetch wrote: »

Radburn wrote: »

Suggestions for Breath of Life & Honor the Dead:

1. They should both self heal if the caster is at 50% - self preservation. Smart healing causes some grief when there are more than 4 players who are all getting smacked (pvp)
2. Have a crafted set with a 5 piece bonus that improves rushed ceremony adding 1 extra minor heal to both morphs. This would force Templars to "specialize" their build towards making BoL strong and at the same time make both morphs desirable.

This would suck. This ain't WoW, there are no class restricted sets.

The only guaranteed magicka self heals are blessing of protection(combat prayer/blessing of resto) and energy orb. Ward ally is the most powerful self bubble available to everyone.

with the major mending buff... templars could try slamming combat prayer like stam builds slam vigor.

cleanse/self bubble/slam combat prayer

@BullNetch Class specific sets do already exist. The Necropotence set increases max magicka while you have pets active. Sorcs are the only ones with pets.

While you are correct that the necropotence set is meant for sorcs, technically speaking sorcs are not the only ones with pets. Nightblade shades are pets as well, so are the summoned dwemer spheres from engine guardian and the deadroth from maw of infernal. I believe necropotence works on all of those. Of course it probably isn't the most practical, but I just wanted to point out this set - while obviously catered to sorcs - is in fact not sorc exclusive AKA class specific.

Ah yes, the OP pointed that out to me - I was not aware that the NB shade counted as a pet for sure. For some reason I also thought that set existed before monster helms but I could be incorrect on that as well!

dodgehopper_ESO

Soris wrote: »

@dodgehopper_ESO I dont see any reason why adding extra duration to BS will make it somewhat better. It sucks either way.

It would allow for preemptive use, and be a huge magicka savings. A Templar has to be far more intelligent about how he uses his shield because of this. Other players just fire and forget, recasting as needed. Its a big difference, and palpable when you play these other classes.

Soris

It will only help while travelling around. In combat 6 seconds is more than enough.
If anything, its strength needs to be increased, not duration.

danno8

Derra wrote: »

Neoauspex wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

While i do agree that the twilight heal is strong (too strong in my opinion) i would not say it´s better than bol for pvp or pve simply bc of the fact that dead twilight = no heal.

Dead Templar also = no heal.

If you can oneshot a templar - yeah might be an argument. Does not work for me for some reason. Pets on the other hand are cannon fodder.

Don't pets also get Hardened Ward every time you cast it?

Ra'Shtar

This are the toughts, feelings and concerns of a very passionate templar who only wants what this amazing class deserves.


Testing (in pve related things) all classes i must say that templar has by far the least amount of choices in class skills to slot in our bars and do competitive DPS, having a skill line dedicated completely to healing is affecting a lot the amount of choice we get on DPS skills and the passives offered by our class can't compare to those of sorcerers, nightblades and dragonknights because they have many passives that increase the damage done and give them an insane amount of resource management. The reason why many templars have lost their temper and gone raging all over the forums is very obvious to say the least, buffing other classes while making minor tweaks to ours and leaving the root problems unsolved after so much input and feedback has been offered for longer than a year has gotten several people feeling offended and insulted.

Solutions have been offered many times by many talented people and after days of playing around in the PTS i see this feedback has been ignored, the time for courtesy and patience has long passed and its time for something to be done or things will get even more unsavory on the forums. As a templar i feel very salty about the changes made to the class which i identify with our passives are still very poor compared with every other class, i feel like the developers tried to go with a balance between the holy trinity Tank, Healer and DPS but it did not worked out our passives provide low effects to the three.

For long we have provided feedback even if i am not the most eloquent person myself i felt like i had to do something because its just not right, our ultimates are the worst in the game for factual DPS because once again you tried to balance between the three roles and once again failed to do so.

Templar Ultimates.

• Radial Sweep is the worst ultimate in the entire game because it provides low utility and very low damage output and that is not even considering that the radius is very small (that 1 meter increase did nothing its still a really bad ultimate because it does not feel like one) and as an AoE ultimate the damage output provided by this ability is outraging low.

• Nova is very good at stacking and burn in Trials but that strategy is no longer plausible in the new Trial and with the high cost of the ultimate and needing many targets to provide decent damage output will no longer be useful (it has never been useful for DPS it has always been a mitigation tactic nothing more).

• Rite of Passage the very criticized healing ultimate which roots you character to a place and its only used by healers to gain a few seconds while their magicka regenerates enough to keep using actual useful healing skills.

Templar passives, this is a very touchy subject as DPS we only have 3 passives in our entire toolkit the provide a direct damage boost. Piercing Spear, Burning Light, Balanced Warrior (This is for stamina based templar only) and Illuminate (For magicka templars mostly) all other passives are minor QoL and/or healing related, we do not have passives to (or active abilities for that matter) increase/restore magicka/stamina and their regeneration like all other 3 classes do nor do we have access to passives in our trees that are near as good as those of the dragonknight, sorcerer or nightblade in terms of providing direct damage increase to our abilities.


Moving to actual skills now i feel like the choices we ''make'' are beyond obvious in terms of what to slot on our bars for DPS game-play, the choice is even more limited as a stamina templar who only has 2 abilities that can be considered for sustained DPS in PvE, we have many low usage and/or not used at all skills.

Templar Skills.

• Healing Ritual is a very useless skill it has a cast time and restrains your movement but not only that we already have Rushed Ceremony which is more viable and useful in dungeon encounters than Healing Ritual, restoration staff has better choices that don't restrain your movement such as Grand Healing or Blessing of Protection.

• Eclipse which has almost 0 situations in PvE game-play that require you to use it and it has target limit making it even less desired on our bars (you have made one of the morphs a DPS skill but it lacks damage and the detonation time is very long and can't be compared with Magicka Detonation in terms of overall damage, not to mention that the detonation time is prolonged by Enduring Rays passive effectively nerfing one of our own abilities with one of our won passives ).

• Piercing Javelin a fairly useless skill in PvE (except for those moments in a dungeon where you giggle because you throw NPCs from cliffs to their death ), the stamina morph is clearly PvP oriented and the magicka morph is really useless due to the ability's really high cost and because most of the magicka builds use Puncturing Sweeps in their DPS rotation effectively making the 40% increased damage on long range activation useless and even so with the high cost the ability itself its not worth using.

• Restoring Aura this one really gets to me because there is nothing more useless than the buffs provided by this ability that don't help with sustain at all due to the big issue of buffs being replaced by potion effects there is absolutely no use for this skill (unless you choose to morph it to repentance of course) the way this ability was tweaked in the most recent patch feels like an insult because its still not going to be used there is absolutely no reason at all as of why to run this morph because potion still override the buffs.

• Rune Focus, the only class ability in the entire game that requires the user to stand in a small circle to receive the buffs provided by the ability, restraining a character to a place is one of the worse things a developer can do to an ability in this game that requires so much movement why have something so clumsy be a thing i can not fathom.

• Focused Charge, templars have the only class skill that is just that a gap closer with no other use (unless you morph to Toppling) and provides no other effects, why having this instead of an ability that actually works its not bugged and adds another rotational choice escapes my mortal understanding.

• Sun Shield, last but not least we have one of the hot topics of the templar community the worst shield in the game, the scourge of a a thousand templars that recently one of its morphs got buffed by a sad 1% leaving it exactly the same as before, useless in both PvE and PvP the high cost and low protection provided by the shield is not worth a spot on your bars due to being a Health % based shield.

Templar Movement.

Templars are effectively since the last PTS patch the ONLY class which has NO way of buffing itself with Major Expedition with a class skill. This is very poor balance having just one class with no way of gaining movement speed with one of its own class skills and on top of all of that having so many skills that restrain your movement including one of our own ultimates and several of our class skills is just insulting, it feels like the combat designers don't know what to do with our beloved class not even after so much feedback and suggestion has been provided for over a year. Now its the time, something hs to be done and it has to be done before the release of the Thieves Guild DLC to live servers.

dodgehopper_ESO

@Ra'Shtar I understand your sentiment but I'm pretty sure there's no way they're going to be able to make the changes we want by the time they release Thieves Guild. I feel the same way as you, we've been giving them Feedback since the very beginning about the class, and the changes in game rules and nerfs have actually served to make the class more and more clunky and irritating to play over time. We know this, but I don't think they know it. The silver lining in all of this is that it looks like all the other classes will be equal or better healers than Templar, which means maybe they'll actually revisit Templars and make them worth playing again. Until then I think my Templar is going to be my achievement gatherer and crafter. The whole process has just made me weary and frustrated, and I don't want my fun time to feel like that.

maxjapank

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

I understand your sentiment but I'm pretty sure there's no way they're going to be able to make the changes we want by the time they release Thieves Guild.

This very much so. So I think the best idea is to choose one or two simple changes that they could fix or buff. All these in-depth critiques are fine and dandy. But we've only got a month left. So start listing just one or two things for now.

Faulgor

Class skills I use on my Stamina Dragonknight
Skill points spent: 54

Ardent Flame
Standard of Might
Empowering Chains
Unstable Flame
Burning Breath
Flames of Oblivion
Kindling
Warmth
Searing Heat
World in Flame

Draconic Power
Take Flight
Hardened Armor
Choking Talons
Green Dragon Blood
Dragon Fire Scale
Iron Skin
Burning Heart
Elder Dragon
Scaled Armor

Earthen Heart
Corrosive Armor
Igneous Weapons
Igneous Shield
Fossilize
Cinder Storm
Eternal Mountain
Battle Roar
Mountain's Blessing
Helping Hands

Class skills I use on my Stamina Nightblade
Skill points spent: 50

Assassination
Soul Harvest
Killer's Blade
Ambush
Double Take
Piercing Mark
Relentless Focus
Master Assassin
Executioner
Pressure Points
Hemorrhage

Shadow
Bolstering Darkness
Dark Cloak
Surprise Attack
Mass Hysteria
Shadow Image
Refreshing Shadows
Shadow Barrier
Dark Vigor
Dark Veil

Siphoning
Soul Tether
Siphoning Attacks
Catalyst
Magicka Flood
Soul Siphoner
Transfer

Class skills I use on my Stamina Sorcerer
Skill points spent: 36

Dark Magic
Restraining Prison
Defensive Rune
Dark Deal
Unholy Knowledge
Blood Magic
Persistence

Daedric Summoning
Greater Storm Atronach
Bound Armaments
Power Stone
Daedric Protection

Stormcalling
Energy Overload
Boundless Storm
Critical Surge
Streak
Capacitor
Energized
Disintegrate
Expert Mage

Class skills I use on my Stamina Templar
Skill points spent: 20

Aedric Spear
Biting Jabs
Blinding Javelin
Piercing Spear
Spear Wall
Burning Light
Balanced Warrior

Dawn's Wrath
Restoring Spirit

Restoring Light
Repentance
Purifying Ritual
Focused Healing

+/- a few here or there depending on the build.
Hope you notice the trend.

BalticBlues

ZOS, pleaes note that there is a problem now with Templars using Heavy Armor

ZOS: "we reduced Puncturing Sweep's healing by 5% to compensate Focused Healing"
Meaning: Rune Focus now is mandatory to receive the former (full) healing bonus of jabs.
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/2663891/#Comment_2663891
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/245572/zos-rune-focus-discussionI

Problem: Instead of using Rune Focus, HA Templars often use the HA skill Immovable Brute/Unstoppable to get Major Ward/Resolve to become mobile and immune to knockback/disables. Being mobile is key to this game!

Diagnosis: Using Immovable Brute/Unstoppable, the Sweep's Healing nerf is not compensated.

Result: Combining Immovable Brute/Unstoppable with Sweeps now gives -12% healing
(40->35, -5% means -12% of the former amount). This is a huge healing nerf for Templars using HA. It also is baffling, because HA so far meant more health recovery, not less...

PLEASE, reconsider the -12% healing nerf of Sweeps.
The BOL healing nerf will only kill our groups members, the Sweeps healing nerf will kills us.
(please note that I am playing on PS4, so I can only analyze but not test the PTS settings)

Cinbri

maxjapank wrote: »

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

I understand your sentiment but I'm pretty sure there's no way they're going to be able to make the changes we want by the time they release Thieves Guild.

This very much so. So I think the best idea is to choose one or two simple changes that they could fix or buff. All these in-depth critiques are fine and dandy. But we've only got a month left. So start listing just one or two things for now.

We made it since Wrobel posted thread of asking 3 skills viable. Did they made them viable asfter this long time?! No.
Only 1 thing we requested for very-very-very long time was fixed - jabs cc. They however made small changes to dk that allowed them to return on top of class list, and with further changes will make them even stronger. Asking for change just for 3 skills now when in compare to other classes we became even weaker is bad idea. The Victory or Death.
My pre-pts 100% optimism already switched to 25% pessimism.
Just for ZOS to see I post short list of suggstions again:
1. Add yellow glowing from Empowering Ward to Focused Healing for people without addons to see duration of buff outside of fcous/ritual.
2. Add Major Protection buff to Empowering Sweep insted of default 15% reduction, icnreasing radius for this morph doesn't need.
3. Add 5 sec knockdown and stun for front targets and increase radius for Crescent Sweep
4. Add any way to restore stamina to templar: it could be either Luminous Shard to affect caster, Master Ritualist to restore 5% stamina upona RL abilities cast, Restoring Focus to restore stamina like Channedled Focus.
5. Change Light Weaver to proc on Rushed Ceremony skills and restore ultimate to caster, not to other peoples.
6. Addany skill with Major Evasion with little bonus to imitate Blinding Light, it could be Radiant Ward.
7. Add any AoE CC/root
8. Change Honor the Dead to restore mana 2 times faster = every 1 sec for 4 sec. C'mon it is that easy.
9. Revamp Eclipse as after current change it became even more useless skill. Make Total Dark to restore stamina maybe.
10. Add minor berserk buff to any dawn's wrath passive ability.
11. Give Rite of Passage dk Magma Armor treatment, i.e. buff it.

phillyboy7897

We may want to stop mentioning immovable. It might get removed from the game just to pin Templars down.

"Hey I heard u wanna move outside of a 2x3m circle, well u can u are just gonna take 8% more dmg from Everything in the game or u can press this button every 4 seconds"

This is a troll change. It's not fun gameplay, it's lame.

acw37162

MissBizz wrote: »

BullNetch wrote: »

Radburn wrote: »

Suggestions for Breath of Life & Honor the Dead:

1. They should both self heal if the caster is at 50% - self preservation. Smart healing causes some grief when there are more than 4 players who are all getting smacked (pvp)
2. Have a crafted set with a 5 piece bonus that improves rushed ceremony adding 1 extra minor heal to both morphs. This would force Templars to "specialize" their build towards making BoL strong and at the same time make both morphs desirable.

This would suck. This ain't WoW, there are no class restricted sets.

The only guaranteed magicka self heals are blessing of protection(combat prayer/blessing of resto) and energy orb. Ward ally is the most powerful self bubble available to everyone.

with the major mending buff... templars could try slamming combat prayer like stam builds slam vigor.

cleanse/self bubble/slam combat prayer

@BullNetch Class specific sets do already exist. The Necropotence set increases max magicka while you have pets active. Sorcs are the only ones with pets.

NB shadows image is considered a pet

Crzykiddo

Is anyone noticing that neither Elemental Expert or Thaumaturge don't affect the damage of Burning Light procs? I tested this the other night, and it didn't matter which star I had it in, Burning Light had the same amount of damage against the Durzogs I decided to test it on. I did however see that Max magicka seemed to increase the damage of the passive. Yet, on the passive it mentions it is affected by spell damage or weapon damage. Has this always been the case? I thought Thaumaturge affected this passive? On pts currently, the tooltips SHOW that it is affecting it, but the actual damage is unchanged.

Faulgor

Concerning Eclipse and its morphs ...

I do not feel this skill will ever be useful as a reflect. It is functionally too similar to DK's Scales and Defensive Posture, while inherently inferior because it is not applied to oneself as a buff, but on the enemy. Without making it a poor man's Reflective Scales, I think it will always remain lackluster.

However, conceptually, it seems it was intended as a sort of anti-mage skill. We can keep that concept and design a better skill, I believe.
From a lore point of view, it makes a lot of sense to use an Eclipe, i.e., blocking out the sun, to stunt someone's Magicka. After all, if one is to believe these stories, the sun is merely a hole in Oblivion through which Magicka flows from Aetherius to Nirn.
So, somebody effected by Eclipse should simply lose their Magicka.

Eclipse
Envelop enemy in a lightless sphere, draining [x] Magicka per second for [y] seconds. Cannot regenerate Magicka through other means while affected.

Total Dark
Envelop enemy in a lightless sphere, draining [x] Magicka per second for [y] seconds from them and nearby allies. Cannot regenerate Magicka through other means while affected.

Unstable Core
Envelop enemy in a lightless sphere, draining [x] Magicka per second for [y] seconds. Cannot regenerate Magicka through other means while affected. Explodes for [z] magic damage when effect ends.

I'm not sure if this new effect, like the current Eclipse, should be CC-breakable. Cleanse, certainly.
If it remains breakable, there could be interesting considerations whether to spend the stamina to get rid of the effect, or let it run out and forfeit the magicka to keep the stamina.
If it is not brekable but only cleansable, a new group dynamic might evolve centered around Templars, where you want Templars in your PvP group to Eclipse enemy players as well as efficiently cleanse Eclipse put on your group members.

One way or the other, this change would have several advantages
- Gives Templars the opportunity to fill their function as anti-mages
- Fits Templars thematically as manipulators of light and the powers of the sun
- Unique debuff that is not merely a copy of other, better skills
- Both morphs discourage zerg gameplay

Of course, this change would make the skill useless in PvE. However, I do not see it being viable in either environment in its current state.

TRoclodyte

Breath of Life (Rushed Ceremony morph): This morph now only fires one additional secondary heal, previously two heals.
Don't see how this was needed. You're constantly adding group content with strategies that require the group to split up and then you nerf the only good split-group heal? Weird.

Focused Healing: This passive ability now grants you the Major Mending buff while standing in your own Cleansing Ritual, Rune Focus, or Rite of Passage area effects and for up to 2/4 seconds after leaving them at Ranks I/II, instead of granting you 15/30% more healing to allies standing in your own Cleansing Ritual, Rune Focus, or Rite of Passage.
That's good. Happy about that.

Healing Ritual: Reduced the cast time for this ability and its morphs by 25%, and reduced the healing done by 25%.
Seriously? Even with the shorter cast time morph that was 1.7 seconds, it only goes down to 1.3 seconds now. In a fast paced game like ESO, when someone needs healing, he needs it NOW, not in 1.3 seconds! Still the most useless heal in game.

My humble suggestion? Make it channeled instead of casted. Something like a 3 seconds duration channel that heals some health every 0.5 or 1 second. I think it's time you realized casted heals in this game mean death.

Radiant Aura (Restoring Aura morph): This morph now grants you and your allies the Major Intellect buff upon activation, as well as having an increased radius as a morph effect.
Bad. This skill needs scrapped. No one uses that. Everyone takes repentance. People already get their major buffs from their potions. Seriously, remove that and give us a real group buff ability.

Rune Focus: Revised the tooltips for this ability and its morphs to indicate that the Major Ward and Major Resolve buffs will stick to you for 8 seconds after leaving the rune, while the morph effects of Channeled Focus and Restoring Focus require you to remain in the rune at all times.
Seriously? We need MOBILITY. Give us a buff that we can move with or make the rune as big as purifying ritual. The area is ridiculously small.

maxjapank

Cinbri wrote: »

We made it since Wrobel posted thread of asking 3 skills viable. Did they made them viable asfter this long time?! No.

Lol. Don't get mad at me. But if you really think that all these complaints and suggestions are gonna happen by this next DLC, you are dreaming. So why don't you focus on one or two that you think the Devs could change within a month. Set your sights on a couple of things that You think Templars really really need. A couple.

BalticBlues

maxjapank wrote: »

why don't you focus on one or two that you think the Devs could change within a month?

Because we are desparate.
Templars needed help, instead we now can slowly die.

We get almost nothing of what is required for PvP and latest PvE content like vMA:
No speed, no mobility, no dps, no shields, no ultimates to decide fights

Instead we get more nerfs:
BOL crippled, Sweeps without Focus crippled, this way Heavy Armor crippled (see above)

This patch is the last chance to save our dying class.
ZOS needs to put us into fresh water or this patch will cut off our breath:

tinythinker

Joy_Division wrote: »

Dueled for about an hour or two and my biggest impression is that defensive morph of Eclipse (total dark) is noticeably worse than before. I have been using this skill forever and I felt naked because it no longer blocks spells. DK whips, NB concealed weapons and ...ehem ...soul tether! ... enemy templar charge/jabs, all this stuff was reflected and the trade for physical projectiles in no way makes up for that loss. A duel is the absolute best environment this skill is ever going to get as the one target restriction is irrelevant so there is no way I'd recommend any templar take this morph.

So it is worse after all then, @Joy_Division? Since it is single target, expensive, and has no penalty for breaking free/gaining CC immunity, at the least it should reflect all single target abilities and not just projectiles. I've posted suggestions before to make Eclipse better many times (i.e. take a lot of damage for breaking free) but this seems to be a skill that gets little thought or that devs just don't know what to do with.

Ffastyl wrote: »

In regards to Blinding Light.

I see most people who mention this ability refer to it by the morph Blinding Flashes, creating the notion that this was the better morph.
Blinding Light applied a 50% miss chance to enemies in a 5m radius for 6 seconds.
Searing Light added a small damage effect on cast. In the game's current state, this could be used to de-cloak Nightblades.
Blinding Flashes changed the skill to pulse every 2 seconds, reapplying the 50% miss chance. What was not mentioned in the tooltip is the duration of the miss chance debuff was also reduced to 2 seconds, requiring you maintain the enemy in that 5m radius for at least 4 seconds to get the full 6 seconds provided by the base skill.

The Major Evasion component keeps Blinding Light as a viable defense against attacks of all ranges while the miss chance in melee range attunes it to the intent of being a melee counter. The dodge chance for the caster given both Major Evasion and 10% miss chance is

20% + 10% = 30% (if additive) 1 - (0.9 * 0.8) = 28% (if multiplicative)

Not frustrating numbers like 50% but higher than other classes can achieve, potentially providing Templar with another iconic skill. The high cost and short miss chance duration is to deter it from being consistently reapplied. At ~4k Magicka, a 15 second Major Evasion is a good trade off but as seen in Blazing Shield, too high a cost for repeated usage in the short duration to maintain the additional 10% miss chance.

An outlier to this cost model is Light Armor. Reducing spell cost by 21% at 7 pieces, Blinding Light and morphs would cost 2925 Magicka. This is drastically lower than the cost for Medium Armor and Heavy Armor, the builds that will need this defense the most. Light Armor is low on Physical Resistance however, and Blinding Light requires being in melee range to achieve its full effect. Time and testing will tell if the risk is balanced for Light Armor.

@Ffastyl I've suggested giving Healing Ritual a bright animation and adding in Major Evasion (tossing in Minor Maim to affected targets would be a nice touch). Could help with two problems in one fix.

hedna123b14_ESO

Crzykiddo wrote: »

Is anyone noticing that neither Elemental Expert or Thaumaturge don't affect the damage of Burning Light procs? I tested this the other night, and it didn't matter which star I had it in, Burning Light had the same amount of damage against the Durzogs I decided to test it on. I did however see that Max magicka seemed to increase the damage of the passive. Yet, on the passive it mentions it is affected by spell damage or weapon damage. Has this always been the case? I thought Thaumaturge affected this passive? On pts currently, the tooltips SHOW that it is affecting it, but the actual damage is unchanged.

They both affect Burning Light. After playing around with the numbers I found that both modified it's damage

Thal

Personally, I think Dark Flare animation should be a Kamehameha but it is what it is

Serious note though, there were some really good comments in the past few pages - especially the one about using only ~20 skill points on Templar. I hope something like that hopes drive home the point we're all trying to make in sometimes eloquent and sometimes not so eloquent ways. Probably also best to stick to shorter, not "complete overhaul" ideas that a dev could actually change in the short period of time we have to potentially make an impact.

1) My biggest ask would be for Rune Focus (and morphs) to simply act like Lightning Form (and morphs) - stick to you, and give some sort of Expedition for a short period of time.

2) Second one is for Balanced Warrior to be balanced - aka increase spell damage like every other class has access to.

3) Make the ultimates feel ultimate - I feel like the Aedric Spear line is the most "focused" on it's true intent of the 3 branches, with passives that moreso support the abilities than the other 2. Crescent Sweep is such a letdown in a skill line that otherwise is pretty solid.

4) Stamplar options - not going to belabor this point, and I feel like Stam sorcs are also in a similar boat

5) More buff/debuff options either through spells/abilities or through passives - Templar in my mind should be the buff/debuff class with lots of minor/major options that aid a group and hinder the opposition

Cloroplatinico

My post will be all releted to stamina templar, wich is my main carachter. In PvE sustainability as dps remains strictly related to the healer throwing occasionally spears (since in new dungeons and probably new trial you need to roll dodge and use vigor to survive) because radiant aura remains pretty useless and not even comparable to the utility provided by repentance! Here are my suggestions:

1) Make Burning Light passive dealing both magical and phisical damage.
2) Make blazing spear stamina based and dealing phisical damage and encreasing stamina recovery for (x)% and (x) seconds to the caster. This (x) amount should be reasonable otherwise you'll mess again.

Only this way u'll make stamina templars competitive with stamina nb having siphoning attacks and stamina dks having battle roar passive; if u don't pay attention to this class, since u nerfed breath of life for magica builds, you will have no more templars playing this game and after that no more ESO, since you'll have no more a solid players base actually playing your main healing class. This is your last chance my dear ESO team, since too many players left the game, cause you were not able to fix simple things like those; and again you said you made templar charge more responsive, does it really means that is not COMPLETELY fixed!? And you dare to nerf templars without fixing a thing not fixed since beta? You are simple suiciders!

Cinbri

maxjapank wrote: »

Cinbri wrote: »

We made it since Wrobel posted thread of asking 3 skills viable. Did they made them viable asfter this long time?! No.

Lol. Don't get mad at me. But if you really think that all these complaints and suggestions are gonna happen by this next DLC, you are dreaming. So why don't you focus on one or two that you think the Devs could change within a month. Set your sights on a couple of things that You think Templars really really need. A couple.

I didn't get mad on you, i just said that Wrobel's "top3 skills to fix" thread regarding templar was ignored by zos themselves. Only thing we asked for maybe half a year or maybe longer was fixed. I not dreaming about anything already but hoping for the best. I really wanna see how they fixed at least something we asked about. Remember, dks got small but most necessary buffs that made them strong already, same should happen with templar, so i gave not 3 skills to fix but not so short list of small incemental changes that should help.

kaalmoth

one simple thing they could do is to stop this "stand your ground" nonsense and let rune focus at least follow us.

Joy_Division

tinythinker wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Dueled for about an hour or two and my biggest impression is that defensive morph of Eclipse (total dark) is noticeably worse than before. I have been using this skill forever and I felt naked because it no longer blocks spells. DK whips, NB concealed weapons and ...ehem ...soul tether! ... enemy templar charge/jabs, all this stuff was reflected and the trade for physical projectiles in no way makes up for that loss. A duel is the absolute best environment this skill is ever going to get as the one target restriction is irrelevant so there is no way I'd recommend any templar take this morph.

So it is worse after all then, @Joy_Division? Since it is single target, expensive, and has no penalty for breaking free/gaining CC immunity, at the least it should reflect all single target abilities and not just projectiles. I've posted suggestions before to make Eclipse better many times (i.e. take a lot of damage for breaking free) but this seems to be a skill that gets little thought or that devs just don't know what to do with.

In my opinion, yes the Total Dark morph is worse. It was useful previously very useful against all magical builds and even could occasionally get some stamina players who didn't bother breaking it to soul tether themselves. Now the only opponent now that is would be worth casting against is a sorcerer.

The Unstable Core version is ... I suppose a buff when looked at from strictly the perspective of Live. BUT ... consider back in Jul 2015, I was able to spam the spell as much as I wanted to AND had it reflect all spells, so it's hard for me to get all excited about it because that amounts to a net nerf.

I think you are right, the devs dont seem to know what to do with it. This skill is hard to implement and balance in PvP because of the break free mechanic.

Ashamray

Joy_Division wrote: »

The Unstable Core version is ... I suppose a buff when looked at from strictly the perspective of Live. BUT ... consider back in Jul 2015, I was able to spam the spell as much as I wanted to AND had it reflect all spells, so it's hard for me to get all excited about it because that amounts to a net nerf.

And earlier you were able to successfully use Eclipse on player, who has already sent a projectile into you. So many nerfs to such a situational ability.

dodgehopper_ESO

Joy_Division wrote: »

tinythinker wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Dueled for about an hour or two and my biggest impression is that defensive morph of Eclipse (total dark) is noticeably worse than before. I have been using this skill forever and I felt naked because it no longer blocks spells. DK whips, NB concealed weapons and ...ehem ...soul tether! ... enemy templar charge/jabs, all this stuff was reflected and the trade for physical projectiles in no way makes up for that loss. A duel is the absolute best environment this skill is ever going to get as the one target restriction is irrelevant so there is no way I'd recommend any templar take this morph.

So it is worse after all then, @Joy_Division? Since it is single target, expensive, and has no penalty for breaking free/gaining CC immunity, at the least it should reflect all single target abilities and not just projectiles. I've posted suggestions before to make Eclipse better many times (i.e. take a lot of damage for breaking free) but this seems to be a skill that gets little thought or that devs just don't know what to do with.

In my opinion, yes the Total Dark morph is worse. It was useful previously very useful against all magical builds and even could occasionally get some stamina players who didn't bother breaking it to soul tether themselves. Now the only opponent now that is would be worth casting against is a sorcerer.

The Unstable Core version is ... I suppose a buff when looked at from strictly the perspective of Live. BUT ... consider back in Jul 2015, I was able to spam the spell as much as I wanted to AND had it reflect all spells, so it's hard for me to get all excited about it because that amounts to a net nerf.

I think you are right, the devs dont seem to know what to do with it. This skill is hard to implement and balance in PvP because of the break free mechanic.

Hard to balance in pvp, and its fairly useless in pve (the mobs that actually hurt enough where its necessary, are immune).