Official Feedback Thread for Templars

Talwyn_Aureliano

Kevmeister

Zheg wrote: »

Kevmeister wrote: »

Breath of Life should be renamed to Fart of Despair.

I would bet money that somewhere out there you made a templar laugh so hard that they farted. It won't be anyone at ZOS though, because they don't play templars.

I was infuriated when I made the post to be honest, but if anyone did laugh off of it, then I'm glad it did lol.

Animal_Mother

Ffastyl wrote: »

In regards to Eclipse.

Each class designed to stand their ground rather than dance about require a means to effectively and efficiently handle ranged and kiting enemies. Dragonknights have Reflective Scales and Unrelenting Chains (and Dark Talons for melee kiters). Templars have Eclipse. Yes, Eclipse is an inconsistent skill possessing immense power (infinite reflects) and the lowest 'stick' rate. It does need a rework into something Templars can use to shut down enemies that choose to stay far away. But replace Eclipse with Blinding Light? Blinding Light is a melee counter. It would be one step forward and one step back.

I think the suggestion to replace Eclipse is more a reaction in frustration with the devs regarding this skill. It once worked - though could be buggy. Prior to 1.6 my Bowplar used Eclipse extensively for completing PVE group content solo. I could easily spam it to keep casters at bay while I took care of, in order, archers and melee. Blinding Light was of course, the second component of this strategy. Prior to being limited to one mob under the influence of Eclipse the most frustration I encountered with it was that it wouldn't work with some bosses and stronger mobs - unfortunately there was no indication as to whether it work or not until you cast it and aggroed the mobs regardless of the result.

I don't quite understand why it had to be changed in 1.6, when the CC applied by the skill as it was easily broken/purged/cleansed in PvP. I don't think I ever received a heal from Total Dark or killed anyone besides guards with Unstable Core. It was certainly geared towards PVE and in PVP was more of a troll or a mechanism to have opponents burn stamina.

Now the skill has now lost its utility for both. Since Craglorn appeared there been more multiple ranged casters in groups of mobs. Thus a move to the good old 2Hander.

In regards to Blinding Light.

I see most people who mention this ability refer to it by the morph Blinding Flashes, creating the notion that this was the better morph.
Blinding Light applied a 50% miss chance to enemies in a 5m radius for 6 seconds.
Searing Light added a small damage effect on cast. In the game's current state, this could be used to de-cloak Nightblades.
Blinding Flashes changed the skill to pulse every 2 seconds, reapplying the 50% miss chance. What was not mentioned in the tooltip is the duration of the miss chance debuff was also reduced to 2 seconds, requiring you maintain the enemy in that 5m radius for at least 4 seconds to get the full 6 seconds provided by the base skill.

I'm guilty of that. Loved Blinding Flashes. It basically gave someone attacking my Templar a 92% chance of missing at least one attack during it's duration providing they were in range for all the flashes. In PVE, it may have been bugged as it seemed to affect melee mobs 100% for all flashes - just like effect on players when fighting Scout Justal in the Lion's Den, which may be a similar bug.

In regards to returning Blinding Light...

I really like your suggestion of Evasion + Snare for attacking. In defense, I don't think it will protect me as well as the old miss chance when I have to stand still for 1.3 seconds to cast Healing Ritual to heal friendlies in a 10m radius. This means getting very close to combat. It would be nice to have an AOE CC that included a disabling effect, even at a short radius to help protect us. Something like Stun, Disorient, or Off Balance (Fear doesn't seem right for our class - no one fears Templars anymore) - unfortunately, all these have a 100% chance of applying and may be considered way too powerful in PvP - in retrospect, the percent for Blindness was probably the most balanced option.

Breath of Life - Instead of removing one of the three heals, reducing the amount healed, or coding for LOS (which proved to be a problem with Radiant Destruction), how about reducing it's range. BoLs radius is 28m, by reducing it to 24m the coverage area of the spell would be 1/3rd less area; this would encourage group healers to be more mobile and still be larger than Cleansing Ritual's 20m radius so Focused Healing's bonus is not a certainty. Leave Rushed Ceremony and Honor the Dead's radius at 28m.

In the end, eliminating one of the heals from BoL does nothing to change the situation with pocket healers. Instead of complaining about BoL doing full heals on opponents, you will start hearing complaints about HtD heals being OP.

Note: the change to BoL does not affect my build in anyway. I have almost always played a Bowplar build and find BoL, Rushed Ceremony and Honor the Dead too expensive to use for too little return in a stamina build. Maybe if hybrids ever make a comeback - I'll take a closer look at the ability but I'm not counting on that ever happening again.

Another note: The biggest limitation for me in using Healing Ritual has always been first the radius of the heal and second the cast time. But, it's hard enough getting people to group on crown for attacks in Cyrodiil, try getting them to stand near a Templar for short-range heals. I used to try using Lingering Ritual for storming breeches, but all I ever heard for feedback was "stop standing in the breech, get up the stairs".

Sleep724

Soooo after the last thread for templars before the patch they didn't seem to listen to the best suggestions there. 15 pages in here and not one Zos reply. I really hope I'm wrong but I can't forsee any more significant changes for the better going forward.

technohic

Yeah wouldn't hold much hope. Its not THAT bad but grass definitely looks greener in other classes right now and it really is. I don't think blinding flashes would Be a savior but it's been downhill since the removal.

GhostwalkerLD

Husan wrote: »

I've quickly tested this ability to see if the heal is spammable, and my jaw dropped when I realised it did. Am I missing something here? It's got no smart heals, does it? Is that it? It just heals the closest two? Please tell me that is the case, because otherwise I will be very confused with this ability after they plan on nerfing it's exact counterpart.

So..... they nerfed the heal from the HEALING CLASS... and gave an almost carbon-copy of it's original form to the DPS class? And the heal is just as good, if not better than BOL in it's original form??

That's just.... I don't even...

Whatever. Gives me a reason to play my sorcerer again. Maybe I"ll make him my new main, since apparently templars aren't supposed to be the 'best' healers anymore.

I know sorc's complained that they wanted a reason to use their pets again, well.. that's a hell of a reason, I'll admit. Bravo, ZOS.... bravo...



.... jerks....

*sits in the corner and cries*

hobicabobjob

The class defining features of an already mediocre class did not need to be nerfed. I spent many hours on the PTS and compared to live, templars are clearly less capable.

dodgehopper_ESO

Joy_Division wrote: »

Dueled for about an hour or two and my biggest impression is that defensive morph of Eclipse (total dark) is noticeably worse than before. I have been using this skill forever and I felt naked because it no longer blocks spells. DK whips, NB concealed weapons and ...ehem ...soul tether! ... enemy templar charge/jabs, all this stuff was reflected and the trade for physical projectiles in no way makes up for that loss. A duel is the absolute best environment this skill is ever going to get as the one target restriction is irrelevant so there is no way I'd recommend any templar take this morph.

I did not use channeled focus in preparation for the next patch and I have to say the lack of sustain passives is very noticeable.

On the plus side, I feel relatively confident that at no point in the game have templars ever been in an easier position to actually get a DPS burst combo, which is all the more reason to go with unstable core over eclipse.

Patch is definitely pushing us toward a DPS/glass cannon approach. People who prefer a more "tanky" build I think are going to feel a squeeze

That sounds like it totally misses the boat when it comes to theme.

nagarjunna

I find it sad that this official feedback thread is around twice as long as any of the other official feedback threads. The crafting one excepted!

'nuff said!

bikerangelo

GhostwalkerLD wrote: »

Husan wrote: »

I've quickly tested this ability to see if the heal is spammable, and my jaw dropped when I realised it did. Am I missing something here? It's got no smart heals, does it? Is that it? It just heals the closest two? Please tell me that is the case, because otherwise I will be very confused with this ability after they plan on nerfing it's exact counterpart.

So..... they nerfed the heal from the HEALING CLASS... and gave an almost carbon-copy of it's original form to the DPS class? And the heal is just as good, if not better than BOL in it's original form??

That's just.... I don't even...

Whatever. Gives me a reason to play my sorcerer again. Maybe I"ll make him my new main, since apparently templars aren't supposed to be the 'best' healers anymore.

I know sorc's complained that they wanted a reason to use their pets again, well.. that's a hell of a reason, I'll admit. Bravo, ZOS.... bravo...



.... jerks....

*sits in the corner and cries*

1. Stop crying
2. It's not spammable like BoL
3. The matriarch has a mind of its own and dies quite frequently
4. The numbers for that heal are relatively as high as it'll get, whereas BoL can still crit twice as much
5. The Matriarch heal also has a 2 target heal, just like the new version of BoL

Seriously, this is not the change you should be upset about.

Purifying Ritual nerf
Jabs should snare on the first hit
Toppling Charge is still broken
Eclipse is bugged and still useless
Balanced Warrior still not balanced
Backlash is still the most pointless skill to date (and i bet nobody even knew there was a stamina morph for it)
Channeled Focus is the only ability in. the. entire. game. with a stationary requirement
Minor tweaks that the devs can pass off as "buffs" like 1 unit increases
Bad ultimates that are bad
Bad passives that don't give me the sustain to put up with the bad passives
A conspiracy theory that zose is nerfing healing and tanking and only focusing on dps
A continuous lack of synergy
A legitimate lack of utility
A lack of an aoe CC
A lack of an aoe that isn't a bad ultimate
An ultimate that literally screams "kill me first, I'm important"
A spammable dps ability that requires you to unleash your inner Freddie Mercury on every cast (dark flare)
Ridiculously expensive skills
Getting pigeonholed into the "healing" category while getting nerfed

And an all around lack of attention towards basic functionality. It's like begging for presents from Santa Clause when you know he doesn't exist.

remilafo

caeliusstarbreaker wrote: »

blabafat wrote: »

Instead of some stubborn, short comments that serve no purpose in this thread, I'm going to give my point of view, and be as objective as possible.

Most of what I have to say is relevant to PvP.

Main changes and my thoughts:

Puncturing Sweeps - There is a snare now. This is a good change because it helps solve the problem that most people had with this ability - aiming it. However, the stun it had previously was bad by itself. I think it was great in catching people with CC that could be followed with an ultimate or another set of jabs. An idea is to add the stun back, and make the snare occur after the CC is gone.

Radiant Destruction - This ability can't be dodged - rightfully so. If I recall correctly, it was stated that it being dodgeable was unintended. In PvP, the damage MIGHT need to be toned down a bit. Since they increased the damage per tick a couple patches ago, it can tick for really high amounts. This may be a frowned upon suggestion.

Eclipse - This can now reflect physical projectiles. This is a great change. Unfortunately, this ability doesn't reflect ALL single target spells anymore (only projectiles). I don't think that was a necessary nerf, as it's another redundant CC that can be easily taken care of via purge or cc break.

Javelin - Range is now 28 meters. That's really far. I don't think this change is unbalanced. The magicka morph of this ability gives up to a 40% damage increase based upon the range at which it's casted. No change was made to the magicka morph(I believe). It's very weak compared to the stamina morph. Adding extra damage to a CC ability doesn't make sense. The ability is not used as DPS; it's supposed to be used as a CC skill. The stamina morph, providing a 3 second stun after the knockback, is far superior.

Crescent Sweep and Blazing Shield As stated in previous comments, the changes made to these skills are insignificant. Blazing shield will not all of the sudden become viable with the small change that was made. The same goes for Radial Sweep. It is nothing compared to similar ultimates, such as dawnbreaker or soul tether, which cost a little more, but they deal way higher damage and have addition effects.

Focused Charge - This ability was "fixed." Unfortunately, based on my experience on the PTS so far, only part of the problem was addressed. In live, Focused Charge has multiple problems. After landing it, there is a slight delay compared to other gap closers, and you can't use any abilities for about .5 seconds or so. When looked at side by side, the difference is very apparent. The other problem (the most noticed one) occurs after casting the ability. Your character will be locked out of his/her bars and will not be able to cc break, dodge roll, or cast any abilities for an extended period of time. This can be dealt with by using a consumable, however, that doesn't change the fact that it is a nuisance. THIS particular problem was the one addressed in the PTS ( to my knowledge ). The third problem involves not being able to use the ability at all. As far as I know, this was introduced in Orsinium. When this problem is occuring, your character will start the animation of the ability when you attempt to cast it, but the ability will not actually play out. Your character will be in the same spot, as if nothing happened. If you press it repeatedly, you'll see the starting animation very fast. All of these problems should be addressed.

Breath of Life - I see a lot of Templars complaining about the change that was made with this ability. It heals 1 less player than it did before. From a PvP standpoint, this change was necessary. Breath of life was far too powerful, especially since heals go through LoS. The amount that it heals was unchanged.

Solar Flare % Morphs - Damage was increased by 12%. The damage on dark flare was already great. This change is not too drastic. Both morphs hit harder. Nothing too special.

Vampires Bane - About 2 seconds added to the DoT. This is a great change, and combined with elemental expert and magic damage being merged in the CP system, this ability is more than viable in 1v1 situations. However, it still won't take a place on my bar in open world, as a single target, ranged projectile can be easily countered. This is a well balanced change.

Focused Healing Passive - This change is absolutely amazing. Instead of increasing the Restoring Light healing by 30%, this passive now grants major mending. That means the 30% healing buff applies to all heals, including those from Resto staff or stamina abilities. This offers a buff to stamina Templars and incentive to using Resto staff abilities.

Rune Focus - The main change that caught my eye:

Rune Focus: Revised the tooltips for this ability and its morphs to indicate that the Major Ward and Major Resolve buffs will stick to you for 8 seconds after leaving the rune, while the morph effects of Channeled Focus and Restoring Focus require you to remain in the rune at all times.

If I'm reading this correctly, it states that you MUST be INSIDE the circle at all times to receive the buffs that each morph provides. When I logged onto the PTS today, I was still receiving the magicka while being outside the circle. The magicka gain lasted 18 seconds, just like it does on live. I hope this isn't a bug, as forcing us to be immobile doesn't make any sense. Nobody will use the ability if he/she is forced to stand in a circle that has a 1 meter diameter.

Radiant Aura - This ability now grants major intellect. This is a nice change on paper, however it still defeats the purpose of potions. There is no reason to use this morph if you are using potions. Until the effects that are given upon cast are changed from being major buffs, this ability will be used by few.


Nova synergy got a buff.
Purifying light got a buff...? Not sure lol. Still can't be crit?
Purifying ritual heals for a little more.

Those are alright, I suppose.

186,000% agree with the puncturing strikes model you posted

Truth...

dodgehopper_ESO

Lyar09 wrote: »

This knockback lasted barely more than half a second... what use was that?
Now you can use a real knockdown or stun instead, one that might even make them break free and lose stamina or give you time to burst them down.

But yes, there's nothing for stamplars this time.

Like i said, it was an interrupt for me. It allowed me to burst them down while they were in the knock back animation. Now it allows them to spam those abilities and makes it harder to kill them.

I will be looking at trying to use wrecking blow now into jabs. But, I liked stamplar because I didnt have to rely on using wrecking blow. Just giving my opinion from a stamina point of view. I think most magicka templars love the snare and it works well with them. But, I find it going to make surviving in open world (1/2/3vX) much harder.

Either way, whether snare or knockback, it would be better frontloaded. I play a stamplar and I hate the way the dps skill makes your cc useless. If we had a root skill like dk or cripple like nb it'd be different, but we don't.

Mojmir

call it conspiracy, but with the changes to DK and sorc, Templar is being phased out. I expect by dark brotherhood they'll be in the unemployment line.

dodgehopper_ESO

Lyar09 wrote: »

This knockback lasted barely more than half a second... what use was that?
Now you can use a real knockdown or stun instead, one that might even make them break free and lose stamina or give you time to burst them down.

But yes, there's nothing for stamplars this time.

Like i said, it was an interrupt for me. It allowed me to burst them down while they were in the knock back animation. Now it allows them to spam those abilities and makes it harder to kill them.

I will be looking at trying to use wrecking blow now into jabs. But, I liked stamplar because I didnt have to rely on using wrecking blow. Just giving my opinion from a stamina point of view. I think most magicka templars love the snare and it works well with them. But, I find it going to make surviving in open world (1/2/3vX) much harder.

Against npc's it was good, but against players the knockback was pretty terrible.

DHale

bikerangelo wrote: »

GhostwalkerLD wrote: »

Husan wrote: »

I've quickly tested this ability to see if the heal is spammable, and my jaw dropped when I realised it did. Am I missing something here? It's got no smart heals, does it? Is that it? It just heals the closest two? Please tell me that is the case, because otherwise I will be very confused with this ability after they plan on nerfing it's exact counterpart.

So..... they nerfed the heal from the HEALING CLASS... and gave an almost carbon-copy of it's original form to the DPS class? And the heal is just as good, if not better than BOL in it's original form??

That's just.... I don't even...

Whatever. Gives me a reason to play my sorcerer again. Maybe I"ll make him my new main, since apparently templars aren't supposed to be the 'best' healers anymore.

I know sorc's complained that they wanted a reason to use their pets again, well.. that's a hell of a reason, I'll admit. Bravo, ZOS.... bravo...



.... jerks....

*sits in the corner and cries*

1. Stop crying
2. It's not spammable like BoL
3. The matriarch has a mind of its own and dies quite frequently
4. The numbers for that heal are relatively as high as it'll get, whereas BoL can still crit twice as much
5. The Matriarch heal also has a 2 target heal, just like the new version of BoL

Seriously, this is not the change you should be upset about.

Purifying Ritual nerf
Jabs should snare on the first hit
Toppling Charge is still broken
Eclipse is bugged and still useless
Balanced Warrior still not balanced
Backlash is still the most pointless skill to date (and i bet nobody even knew there was a stamina morph for it)
Channeled Focus is the only ability in. the. entire. game. with a stationary requirement
Minor tweaks that the devs can pass off as "buffs" like 1 unit increases
Bad ultimates that are bad
Bad passives that don't give me the sustain to put up with the bad passives
A conspiracy theory that zose is nerfing healing and tanking and only focusing on dps
A continuous lack of synergy
A legitimate lack of utility
A lack of an aoe CC
A lack of an aoe that isn't a bad ultimate
An ultimate that literally screams "kill me first, I'm important"
A spammable dps ability that requires you to unleash your inner Freddie Mercury on every cast (dark flare)
Ridiculously expensive skills
Getting pigeonholed into the "healing" category while getting nerfed

And an all around lack of attention towards basic functionalityou for summarizing how I heal. . It's like begging for presents from Santa Clause when you know he doesn't exist.

Such a good post...made me cry. Thank you for summarizing how I feel.

Soris

Well how about this?
Give blazing shield its old glory and bring back blinding flashes with a slight nerf attached to it and fix that radiant aura to stack with potions.
You want us stationary? Fine. But we gotta be tanky as *** for being a sitting duck. No matter what build we play, we have to be tanky while standing still.

This or mobility. But something. Not a little this, a little that. Take your pick and make it 100% functioning.

Murmeltier

Zinaroth wrote: »

Just thought I would leave this here, no offense intended to ZOS but damn it's hilarious! Thanks @Husan!
Remember to turn on subtitles!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IQPT85gPa-c

People, whats wrong with you most, look at this Video? We are not in the Faeryland, this is not a Faerytale Story. It is ok to say "A Game cant start perfect, lets work all together and give the Devs constructive Feedback to improve the Game" but it isnt ok and helpfull after giving Tons of constructive Feedback in a Special Thread for Templars , to think again for Months that they really do the right Thing.

I want some constructive changes in my Lifetime. Not after i died and rotten in a Tomb where i will meet some "Chaka, we can do this" singing Teso Adventurers, which wants to banish me with their good Hopes into Oblivion.

They have had massive Time, Feedback and our Motivation & Money and we get this? So you want to give them more Time & Feedback, Money and Hope, you want to do this again?

Some Type of Persons will love to meet you in the Real Life, telling you Stories about real good Options to make Money. "Hey, gimme your $$ because i care about what you want, truuuust me", you like that? Oh yes, i see you really love this.

Yeah, lets be constructive again, for Months or maybe a Year, lets hope and Support again. Lets build a Circle, take our Hands and yell "Chaka we can do this, they only need Support....stay together and be a real Fan & Supporter for the Game, only once more...and more...and more". I can see the White in your Eyes, People.

I was near a Fanboy as i started this Game, i supported it with a Subscription and stayed loyal. I waited, offered Ideas and hoped like all others but enough is enough. It is my Time you waste, my Money you waste and i feel bad about that. I dont hope anymore, i want to see some constructive Facts, fast. No Stories, no "We have to think about it, speak about it and we have to gather Informations", you have had enough Time to gather Feedback and do someting.

You cant say you care and open a Thread, let the People work for Ideas and after that you offer such a Trash to them. The People feeled betrayed.

If i would work like you in my Job, telling my Boss "Cmon Boss, i only need another Year then you get the Things you want, trust and Support me again" he would kick me out of my Job, faster then you can say "We are Aware and work on it". And you know what, here it is the same. New Games will arriving and the People will leave, maybe some come back, maybe. Feel free to think this, like those Faerytales which you told us so much.

But i know your Speed Zos, i know that you cant change those Things fast enough because it is your Rythem. Do you hear the Sound of Fanfares, do you see the Ground is shaking and hear the Masses whispering? Do you hear what they silently whisper "The King...the King is coming, he will arrive on 3th March". Do you hear the Masses whispering louder and louder? You should.....

Mojmir

Murmeltier wrote: »

Zinaroth wrote: »

Just thought I would leave this here, no offense intended to ZOS but damn it's hilarious! Thanks @Husan!
Remember to turn on subtitles!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IQPT85gPa-c

People, whats wrong with you most, look at this Video? We are not in the Faeryland, this is not a Faerytale Story. It is ok to say "A Game cant start perfect, lets work all together and give the Devs constructive Feedback to improve the Game" but it isnt ok and helpfull after giving Tons of constructive Feedback in a Special Thread for Templars , to think again for Months that they really do the right Thing.

I want some constructive changes in my Lifetime. Not after i died and rotten in a Tomb where i will meet some "Chaka, we can do this" singing Teso Adventurers, which wants to banish me with there good Hopes into Oblivion.

They have had massive Time, Feedback and our Motivation & Money and we get this? So, you want to give them more Time & Feedback, Money and Hope, you want to do this again?

Some Type of Persons will love to meet you in the Real Life, telling you Stories about real good Options to make Money. "Hey, gimme your $$ because i care about what you want, truuuust me", you like that? Oh yes, i see you really love this.

Yeah, lets be constructive again, for Months or maybe a Year, lets hope and Support again. Lets build a Circle, take our Hands and yell "Chaka we can do this, they only need Support....stay together and be a real Fan & Supporter for the Game, only once more...and more...and more". I can see the White in your Eyes, People.

I was near a Fanboy as i started this Game, i supported it with a Subscription and stayed loyal. I waited, offered Ideas and hoped like all others but enough is enough. It is my Time you waste, my Money you waste and i feel bad about that. I dont hope anymore, i want to see some constructive Facts, fast. No Stories, no "We have to think about it, speak about it and we have to gather Informations", you have had enough Time to gather Feedback and do someting.

You cant say you care, open a Thread and let the People work for Ideas and after that you offer such a Trash to them. The People feeled betrayed.

If i would work like you in my Job, telling my Boss "Cmon Boss, i only need another Year then you get the Things you want, trust and Support me again" he would kick me out of my Job, faster then you can say "We are Aware and work on it" And you know what, here it is the same. New Games will arriving and the People will leave, maybe some come back, maybe. Feel free to think this, like those Faerytales which told you so much.

But i know your Speed Zos, i know that you cant change those Things fast enough because it is your Rythem. Do you hear the Sound of Fanfares, do you see the Ground is shaking and hear the Masses whispering? Did you hear what they silently whisper "The King...the King is coming, he will arrive on 3th March". Did you hear the Masses whispering louder and louder? You should.....

ah yes the the good ol days, back before the weight of the world broke our pride

Cinbri

Let me edit my pre-pts post about templar balance with current pts balance:

Cinbri wrote: »

And people ask why templar running only healbot build in PvP and claim they are balanced:
1. Templar don't have any noticable redirect damage ability(Eclipse is useless in 1v3 already, BS is useless even more), while DK has Scales, Sorcs has Ward combo with other shields, NBs has Blur and Cloak. Only thing Templar can do is invest max CP into heal buffs and spamming BoL HtD.
2. Templar don't have escape, while sorcs has Boundless Storm for speedbuff, Bolt Escape for escape, NBs has Double Take and Path of Darkness and Cripple for speedbuff, Shadow Cloak for escape and Shadow Image for smart play, Dk now have speedbuff. Templar can only run away and hope his healings will be enough or become vampire to be one-shotted by vampo hunters.
3. Templar don't have burst damage, he can't even use blockcasting with sweep, many dd skills bugged/broken. Templars left only class without major sorcery buff.
4. Templar don't have AoE CC, while DKs has Talons, even AoE interrupt Deep Breath, Warmth passive for speed debuff, Sorcs has Daedric Mines, Volatile Familiar, Streak, NBs has Terror. For this Templar just can't play properly tank role coz if people will decide to ignore him, Templar won't be able to slow-down them.
5. Templar don't have root even a single one, while DKs has Talons, Fossilize, Sorcs has Encase, Daedric Mines, NBs has Crippling Grasp. If enemy will run away from Templar, we won't be able to stop him.
6. Templar don't have usefull ultimate, except Nova that costs like DK standart but much less effective. Even DKs Chocking Talons giving 15% damage resist, same as Empowering Sweep, i.e. even DK spammable skill better than Templar ultimate...
7. Templar don't have solid resource managment skills/passives, while DKs has Battle Roar and Helping Hands passives, Sorcs has Dark Exchange, Energy Overload, Rebate passive, NBs has Executioner and Refreshing Shadows passives, Siphoning Strikes.(I not saying about reduce cost passives) While Templar has only Channeled Focus(that probably will be nerfed) for magicka regeneration, Repentance that useless in solo play or duel and mostly used to help your teammates to sustain, and Spear Shards that created to sustain your teammates, when its own caster while out of resources can't use it to restore stamina.
______________________________________________________________________________________
But Templars have Breath of Life and we are damn good in pressing 1 button to sustain other people. Perfectly designed and balanced class i would say.

Faulgor

Cinbri wrote: »

Templar can only run away and hope his healings will be enough or become vampire to be one-shotted by vampo hunters.

You know what I'm going to do with my Stamplar?
With the +10% change to sprint speed: 7 legendary pieces well-fitted. 100 CP in Sprinter. Boom, -95% sprint cost. As an Orc I could sprint for free. Then add Rapid Maneuvers.

THEY WILL NEVER CATCH ME.

... That's the only logical route ZOS is offering for Templars, so I think that's what they want us do.

Mumyo

GhostwalkerLD wrote: »

Husan wrote: »

I've quickly tested this ability to see if the heal is spammable, and my jaw dropped when I realised it did. Am I missing something here? It's got no smart heals, does it? Is that it? It just heals the closest two? Please tell me that is the case, because otherwise I will be very confused with this ability after they plan on nerfing it's exact counterpart.

So..... they nerfed the heal from the HEALING CLASS... and gave an almost carbon-copy of it's original form to the DPS class? And the heal is just as good, if not better than BOL in it's original form??

That's just.... I don't even...

Whatever. Gives me a reason to play my sorcerer again. Maybe I"ll make him my new main, since apparently templars aren't supposed to be the 'best' healers anymore.

I know sorc's complained that they wanted a reason to use their pets again, well.. that's a hell of a reason, I'll admit. Bravo, ZOS.... bravo...



.... jerks....

*sits in the corner and cries*

just sayin.... thats a 4second channel.

Husan

Mumyo wrote: »

GhostwalkerLD wrote: »

Husan wrote: »

I've quickly tested this ability to see if the heal is spammable, and my jaw dropped when I realised it did. Am I missing something here? It's got no smart heals, does it? Is that it? It just heals the closest two? Please tell me that is the case, because otherwise I will be very confused with this ability after they plan on nerfing it's exact counterpart.

So..... they nerfed the heal from the HEALING CLASS... and gave an almost carbon-copy of it's original form to the DPS class? And the heal is just as good, if not better than BOL in it's original form??

That's just.... I don't even...

Whatever. Gives me a reason to play my sorcerer again. Maybe I"ll make him my new main, since apparently templars aren't supposed to be the 'best' healers anymore.

I know sorc's complained that they wanted a reason to use their pets again, well.. that's a hell of a reason, I'll admit. Bravo, ZOS.... bravo...



.... jerks....

*sits in the corner and cries*

just sayin.... thats a 4second channel.

It's a 4 second channel to dismiss the pet. To summon it it takes 1.5 seconds. Once summoned, activating the heal is instant. It's spammable, it scales better than breath of life, hits both targets for the full amount (breath of life hits the secondary target for half of the amount) and is cheaper. Each cast of the skill also heals the matriarch itself so it doesn't die easily either. I haven't had the chance to test this in a group to see if the heals are smart, ie. targeting whoever is lowest health, or just heals the two closest allies (which means in most cases one of them will be the sorc). It would still be a strong skill either way, but if it actually has smart healing then it is just the new and improved, stronger and cheaper breath of life - which will be implemented in the same patch the actual breath of life was nerfed due to complaints from the playebase.

Don't get me wrong, I fully support the breath of life nerf. I've already said this in this very same thread. The main problem with it is the smart heal component, and the lack of LoS checks. This obviously also means I don't support adding a new skill that does EXACTLY THE SAME THING everyone was complaining about. That is where my confusion comes from. So someone who has 2 friends on the PTS, go create a sorc and test this for me us, please. We are eagerly awaiting your results . I would do it myself already, but I didn't have anyone to test this with yesterday, and I don't have access to my computer with PTS installed until tomorrow.

Derra

Tankqull wrote: »

Mr.Hmm wrote: »

Long Story Short.

Pack up people and lets change class.

jip switch to sorcs + 1 or 2 targets(with reduced ao dmg valnurability your pet(s)) to increase the impact of AOE caps and deliver hihger healing via your pet than BoL is capable off...

Ashamray wrote: »

Actually BoL is stronger than Matriarch healings. Sorc should have an enormous amount of Magicka to match BoL's strength

sadly not

small test on the PTS:
highelf sorc and templar, 64points into magica, 100points into blessing
equip: molagkena light armor helm + vicous death + willpower + mealstorm resto staff for both (1 slot unequiped)
skills: all class passivs nothing else, on the QB nothing but the two tested abilities no buffs running


conclusion:
matriarch heals much more do to lacking the 50% reduction on the secondary healed person, is cheaper, and (regarding the craptastic equipment) is still stronger on the primary healed target...

Problem is - you can´t compare these due to the crappy equipment provided on the pts.

The sorc heal only scales with magica which is - after a certain point, kind of hard to come by (but better on the pts bc spelldmg is highly dependand on using GOLD gear and enchantments zos ffs). On top of that the templar heal will be buffed by major mending in 95% of the cases if used by a competent templar.

Edit: To clarify what i mean: On a bosmer magica templar with 34k max magica my bol tooltip on live with zero points into blessed is 9520. This is on a nonoptimised build on a non magica race. I´m pretty confident i could get this much higher simply by using optimal gear and having a magica race.

A sorc pet/healbuild would be able to realisticly reach ~ 55k magica at best resulting in a 11k tooltip for absolute highend build.
Using the same gear as my templar my sorc would have a tooltip of 7800 for the twilight heal (39k max magica).

Comparison on live: 9520 for bol to 7802 (39008 max magica) for twilight heal using the same gear for a bosmer magica templar to a highelve sorc. 5 Kag 3 willpower (2 healthy) 2 Engine Guardian 2 Torug
This is mainly an issue due to the gear provided for testing which makes it almost impossible to make any conclusion bc it´s so far from optimised (i´d call it hardly usable).

While i do agree that the twilight heal is strong (too strong in my opinion) i would not say it´s better than bol for pvp or pve simply bc of the fact that dead twilight = no heal.
Nonissue in pvp because the twilight is still 1shotted. For pve - i have to say i don´t understand the change. Kind of hard to test really.

I´d fix this with making the heal always target the twilight and the sorc - leaving it with only 1 additional target.

darkstar2084

After Zenimax shocking interview confession of an employee was revealed, they officially responded with this regarding Templar feedback for 2.3 patch

acw37162

I already know what they are going to say on the Twitch Stream

Templar players, "We hear you." and then do absolutely nothing. I mean besides what they have already changed/fixed.

acw37162

double post...deleted

GhostwalkerLD

bikerangelo wrote: »

GhostwalkerLD wrote: »

Husan wrote: »

I've quickly tested this ability to see if the heal is spammable, and my jaw dropped when I realised it did. Am I missing something here? It's got no smart heals, does it? Is that it? It just heals the closest two? Please tell me that is the case, because otherwise I will be very confused with this ability after they plan on nerfing it's exact counterpart.

So..... they nerfed the heal from the HEALING CLASS... and gave an almost carbon-copy of it's original form to the DPS class? And the heal is just as good, if not better than BOL in it's original form??

That's just.... I don't even...

Whatever. Gives me a reason to play my sorcerer again. Maybe I"ll make him my new main, since apparently templars aren't supposed to be the 'best' healers anymore.

I know sorc's complained that they wanted a reason to use their pets again, well.. that's a hell of a reason, I'll admit. Bravo, ZOS.... bravo...



.... jerks....

*sits in the corner and cries*

1. Stop crying
2. It's not spammable like BoL
3. The matriarch has a mind of its own and dies quite frequently
4. The numbers for that heal are relatively as high as it'll get, whereas BoL can still crit twice as much
5. The Matriarch heal also has a 2 target heal, just like the new version of BoL

Seriously, this is not the change you should be upset about.

Purifying Ritual nerf
Jabs should snare on the first hit
Toppling Charge is still broken
Eclipse is bugged and still useless
Balanced Warrior still not balanced
Backlash is still the most pointless skill to date (and i bet nobody even knew there was a stamina morph for it)
Channeled Focus is the only ability in. the. entire. game. with a stationary requirement
Minor tweaks that the devs can pass off as "buffs" like 1 unit increases
Bad ultimates that are bad
Bad passives that don't give me the sustain to put up with the bad passives
A conspiracy theory that zose is nerfing healing and tanking and only focusing on dps
A continuous lack of synergy
A legitimate lack of utility
A lack of an aoe CC
A lack of an aoe that isn't a bad ultimate
An ultimate that literally screams "kill me first, I'm important"
A spammable dps ability that requires you to unleash your inner Freddie Mercury on every cast (dark flare)
Ridiculously expensive skills
Getting pigeonholed into the "healing" category while getting nerfed

And an all around lack of attention towards basic functionality. It's like begging for presents from Santa Clause when you know he doesn't exist.

I know that tone of voice doesn't translate into printed text, but try to at least PRETEND to have a grasp of an attempt at humor when you see one, even one that apparently goes right over your head?

Secondly, yes it IS spammable like BOL. Did you even read the post I quoted? Better yet, load a sorc on the PTS and try it yourself. Once you summon the pet, it's a spammable heal, i.e. instant cast.

Yes, the matriarch dies in like one or two hits. That's an issue that sorcerers are already (justifiably) complaining about and will probably be fixed (since ZOS actually listens to them, it seems).

Thirdly, It has a three target heal: It also heals -itself-. Just like BOL. Learn to read, please. As I said, an -almost- carbon-copy (the only difference being that you aren't the source and first-recipient of the heal, your pet is).

And just because I'm upset about this does not mean that I, or anyone else in this thread, are not also upset about all the other issues you've mentioned. In case you haven't noticed, this thread is 15 pages long and still going, and in my previous posts in this thread I've mentioned or caveated off of all of those issues and more. It's yet another issue to add to a huge list of problems that templars have been having since the game launched.

But if my posts bother you that much, feel free to take your own advice: Deal with it, and continue scrolling through the thread.

Tankqull

Derra wrote: »

Tankqull wrote: »

Mr.Hmm wrote: »

Long Story Short.

Pack up people and lets change class.

jip switch to sorcs + 1 or 2 targets(with reduced ao dmg valnurability your pet(s)) to increase the impact of AOE caps and deliver hihger healing via your pet than BoL is capable off...

Ashamray wrote: »

Actually BoL is stronger than Matriarch healings. Sorc should have an enormous amount of Magicka to match BoL's strength

sadly not

small test on the PTS:
highelf sorc and templar, 64points into magica, 100points into blessing
equip: molagkena light armor helm + vicous death + willpower + mealstorm resto staff for both (1 slot unequiped)
skills: all class passivs nothing else, on the QB nothing but the two tested abilities no buffs running


conclusion:
matriarch heals much more do to lacking the 50% reduction on the secondary healed person, is cheaper, and (regarding the craptastic equipment) is still stronger on the primary healed target...

Problem is - you can´t compare these due to the crappy equipment provided on the pts.

The sorc heal only scales with magica which is - after a certain point, kind of hard to come by (but better on the pts bc spelldmg is highly dependand on using GOLD gear and enchantments zos ffs). On top of that the templar heal will be buffed by major mending in 95% of the cases if used by a competent templar.

Edit: To clarify what i mean: On a bosmer magica templar with 34k max magica my bol tooltip on live with zero points into blessed is 9520. This is on a nonoptimised build on a non magica race. I´m pretty confident i could get this much higher simply by using optimal gear and having a magica race.

A sorc pet/healbuild would be able to realisticly reach ~ 55k magica at best resulting in a 11k tooltip for absolute highend build.
Using the same gear as my templar my sorc would have a tooltip of 7800 for the twilight heal (39k max magica).

Comparison on live: 9520 for bol to 7802 (39008 max magica) for twilight heal using the same gear for a bosmer magica templar to a highelve sorc. 5 Kag 3 willpower (2 healthy) 2 Engine Guardian 2 Torug
This is mainly an issue due to the gear provided for testing which makes it almost impossible to make any conclusion bc it´s so far from optimised (i´d call it hardly usable).

While i do agree that the twilight heal is strong (too strong in my opinion) i would not say it´s better than bol for pvp or pve simply bc of the fact that dead twilight = no heal.
Nonissue in pvp because the twilight is still 1shotted. For pve - i have to say i don´t understand the change. Kind of hard to test really.

I´d fix this with making the heal always target the twilight and the sorc - leaving it with only 1 additional target.

the problem with that comparison is that you do not take the second application of that heal into account, so yes the primary healed target recives a slightly bigger heal but the second healed person recieves a significant weaker version, overall 2x 7802 = 15604 by the matriarch is better than 9520+9520%2 =14280 BoL on top of that the matriarch is ~15% cheaper in use...
so even in your not optimized situation for the sorc it´s slightly ahead...

Rudyard

Derra wrote: »

While i do agree that the twilight heal is strong (too strong in my opinion) i would not say it´s better than bol for pvp or pve simply bc of the fact that dead twilight = no heal.
Nonissue in pvp because the twilight is still 1shotted.

Okay, let's think this through in a PVP encounter. You run into a shield-spamming, matriarch-healing sorc. IF you kill their matriarch and IF you are able to interrupt them every time they try to recast matriarch and IF you can then put pressure on them what is their option? Why, just bolt escape twice and then recast the matriarch at you leisure. Escapability can buy you a lot of room to recast channeled skills, rebuild resources, etc. Too bad every class but Templar now has that too.

Soris

What a lovely day to vote! Sun is bright in my city. May our class see the light one day!
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/246023/do-you-think-battle-spirit-should-affect-health-percentage-based-skills