Official Feedback Thread for Templars

Essiaga

Lyar09 wrote: »

Stop fixating this class to just magic users and help out stamplar. I think it's pretty apparent that currently in live it is the second, maybe even first, least played class. How about showing some balance Zos ffs

I agree with you completely but i think what helps the mag build will help the stam build even it there is no stam morph ...

DK is the best stam build, a side from maybe NB, because they have strong magicka utility available. Reflective Scales, Talons, even Spike Armor, and they used to have GDB when it was a viable skill. Many build still get use of Igneous Shields for the mending buff and the rather tiny shield.

Templars get very little value out of casting BOL wish is the entire classes defense and mitigation. I think if Sun Shield and skills like Eclipse would be useful to Stam builds if only either skill were worth a crap. Blinding Flashes absolutely would.

NB are using Double take and Cloak and both are magicka. Sorcs still streak at least, but the point is the classes that have it on the magicka builds have the option for stam builds and the templar class as a whole just LACKS.

None of this discounts the under performing stam abilities Templar currently have or makes it acceptable that stam builds don't have more stam abilities. I think at the very least a Stam Charge and Jabs should have Brutality or Berserker, rather then Savagery. I also proposed a Stam shield similar to blazing shields that healed for the remaining shield and could be activated again for burst heal. NB get Maim debuff, evaison, protection (just added) and these are on 3 very useful magicka skills. Not a dead morph of remembrance FFS.

I honestly never expect another templar buff again. All ZOS does is raise the DPS and drop the healing which is what i've come to expect from ZOS. No imagination or effort wasted on Templars. Glass cannons.

Essiaga

Derra wrote: »

Tankqull wrote: »

Mr.Hmm wrote: »

Long Story Short.

Pack up people and lets change class.

jip switch to sorcs + 1 or 2 targets(with reduced ao dmg valnurability your pet(s)) to increase the impact of AOE caps and deliver hihger healing via your pet than BoL is capable off...

Ashamray wrote: »

Actually BoL is stronger than Matriarch healings. Sorc should have an enormous amount of Magicka to match BoL's strength

sadly not

small test on the PTS:
highelf sorc and templar, 64points into magica, 100points into blessing
equip: molagkena light armor helm + vicous death + willpower + mealstorm resto staff for both (1 slot unequiped)
skills: all class passivs nothing else, on the QB nothing but the two tested abilities no buffs running


conclusion:
matriarch heals much more do to lacking the 50% reduction on the secondary healed person, is cheaper, and (regarding the craptastic equipment) is still stronger on the primary healed target...

Problem is - you can´t compare these due to the crappy equipment provided on the pts.

The sorc heal only scales with magica which is - after a certain point, kind of hard to come by (but better on the pts bc spelldmg is highly dependand on using GOLD gear and enchantments zos ffs). On top of that the templar heal will be buffed by major mending in 95% of the cases if used by a competent templar.

Edit: To clarify what i mean: On a bosmer magica templar with 34k max magica my bol tooltip on live with zero points into blessed is 9520. This is on a nonoptimised build on a non magica race. I´m pretty confident i could get this much higher simply by using optimal gear and having a magica race.

A sorc pet/healbuild would be able to realisticly reach ~ 55k magica at best resulting in a 11k tooltip for absolute highend build.
Using the same gear as my templar my sorc would have a tooltip of 7800 for the twilight heal (39k max magica).

Comparison on live: 9520 for bol to 7802 (39008 max magica) for twilight heal using the same gear for a bosmer magica templar to a highelve sorc. 5 Kag 3 willpower (2 healthy) 2 Engine Guardian 2 Torug
This is mainly an issue due to the gear provided for testing which makes it almost impossible to make any conclusion bc it´s so far from optimised (i´d call it hardly usable).

While i do agree that the twilight heal is strong (too strong in my opinion) i would not say it´s better than bol for pvp or pve simply bc of the fact that dead twilight = no heal.
Nonissue in pvp because the twilight is still 1shotted. For pve - i have to say i don´t understand the change. Kind of hard to test really.

I´d fix this with making the heal always target the twilight and the sorc - leaving it with only 1 additional target.

IDK if its the new BOL or not. The sorc got more healing and no real nerf to damage or mitigation, etc.

So the point is a nerf to healing with no added mitigation or mobility for the Templar. Sorcs get some more healing, cause they couldn't just make it up with the resto staff, with out losing shields, current self heals, dps, etc. NB cloak got the DOT nerf but added Protection buff... and its mobile on a class defining skill similar to Templars BOL. Templar just gets DPS buff so they can be the new/old NB, which was simply Glass Cannons, but I'll bet even that is nerfed before Dark Brotherhood if not sooner.

I don't believe this was your point but I don't want someone else to mistake the issue as pet heal >or< BOL. Templar got less love then Pets this update.

blims0r

Just give us some mobility:(

Zophix

BullNetch wrote: »

This is what I don't get.

ESO is a PVE heavy game. Yet, ZOS nerfs BOL because of crying from PVP gameplay streamers.

Why not just nerf BoL in PVP only? They already nerfed healing in PVP.

How about keeping the BoL nerf exclusive to Cyrodill?

BoL... heals 2 extra allies in PVE, only 1 in PVP.

BoL is the most popular healing spell on the most popular healing class and it gets nerfed in the PTS for a PVE expansion.

BoL as it was equaled no skill, and im not talking about in PvP, I'm talking about PvE. Bol was way to retardedly easy to keep a group alive. You can't call yourself a healer by only using breath of life. So far on the PTS in the new trial, Templars healing is fine and it's actually fun because it takes more skill than before. Thats a step in the right direction, rewarding skillful play and encouraging unskillful play to learn. Also to add to it, templars now get a major mending buff (25% increase to all healing), from cleans or the rune. Seriously anyone crying about the breath of life nerf get over it, aedric spear and dawns wrath need more PvP attention than restoring light. PvE Templars are fine.

Before Changes Low Health? I'll use BoL
After Changes Low Health? Hmm should I use x, y, or z?

Joy_Division

Radburn wrote: »

I feel as if my Magicka Templar suffers right now due to the amount of CC & mobility available to every other class. Its like we're fighting in the wrong weight class at a disadvantage.

Thoughts on this:

What if.... one of the morphs of rune focus made Templars immune to stun + fear + snares while they stood in the 5 meter radius. That would make us able to "stand our ground."

I can get behind the whole immovable type effect. Actually considering we have to stand in the thing, perhaps immovable would be a better name for Focus....

bikerangelo

Joy_Division wrote: »

Radburn wrote: »

I feel as if my Magicka Templar suffers right now due to the amount of CC & mobility available to every other class. Its like we're fighting in the wrong weight class at a disadvantage.

Thoughts on this:

What if.... one of the morphs of rune focus made Templars immune to stun + fear + snares while they stood in the 5 meter radius. That would make us able to "stand our ground."

I can get behind the whole immovable type effect. Actually considering we have to stand in the thing, perhaps immovable would be a better name for Focus....

It's still discouraging mobility, which is something that doesn't cross over effectively from pve to pvp and back. Regardless of a CC immune healer in a dungeon, some bosses can still 1 shot you with 200k plus damaging effects, and I'd much rather be quick on my feet than know that somewhere in Cyrodiil, a nightblade can't fear me in my comfortable rune.

The major expedition will cater to more than just tanks, along with the freedom of movement in general while maintaining proper defenses.

BalticBlues

BalticBlues wrote: »

please read this story from the field to learn why nerfing BOL will kill a lot of fun in PvE.

maxjapank wrote: »

This is a classic example of not understanding mechanics. Or...trying to bypass mechanics. I applaud you doing damage as a healer. But there is no reason to keep Daedroths alive until the boss is near 20%. So..kill them. When you think you can burn the boss down, then let 4 Daedroths come out and go at it. You know, this used to be how players beat this boss...when we were less powerful. But now players can put out so much damage that they can bypass mechanics.

You are a classic example of a player not understanding PUG mechanics, even lacking reading skills. "So much damage they can bypass mechanics"? The two V1s of the PUG did almost do NO useful damage. This was the reason why the PUG could not follow the mechanics at some point:

Our PUG tried it the regular way, killing the first Daedroths, but because of lacking damage we were still stacking up more and more Daedroth without doing remotely enough damage at the boss to win the fight. This way the PUG died from Daedroth overflow with Rilis still at good health. Therefore, in the final attempt I ordered the DDs to ignore the Daedroth and stack all their little damage non stop on the boss, while the incredible Tank took a flock of Daedroth and me as the healer also did almost nonstop damage.

Running with PUGS having low damage changes the game and the mechanics.
All the pro players only running in their vet teams have no idea how hard the game can be.
Standard procedures may not work in a PUG, and the healer needs to become a third DD.
However, for this it is of vital importance to have a full, unnerfed BOL as a fallback.

I heard that ZOS plans to reward PUGs with special loot for their attempts. This is a nice approach to encourage more players to run with PUGs. However, this often will not work if BOL is nerfed so much that Templar healers cannot carry PUGs anymore.

maxjapank

BalticBlues wrote: »

You are a classic example of a player never running with PUGS, not understanding PUG mechanics.

Our PUG tried it the regular way with killing the Daedroth first, but this did not work at all because the two VR1s did not do enough damage and could not kill the Daedroth fast enough. So we were stacking up more and more Daedroth without doing remotely enough damage at the boss to win the fight. This way the PUG died from Daedroth overflow with Rilis still at good health. Therefore, I decided we had to just ignore the Daedroth and stack all damage non stop on the boss, and only this final attempt made it with support from an incredible tank.

Running with PUGS having low damage changes the entire game.
Standard procedures may not work, and the healer needs to become a third DD.
However, for this it is of vital importance to have a full, unnerfed BOL as a fallback.

I'm sorry to hurt your feelings. You didn't explain that you tried to kill the Daedroths first, the way the mechanics are supposed to be done. But even so, I find it hard to believe that burning the boss was easier than killing the Daedroths. Even killing one Daedroth, the tank can usually finish the other before the next two came out. It is likely that the dps let one of the two balls come through, thus healing the boss. Anyways, I wasn't there. You were. So I will refrain from judging except for this:

Stating that Breath of Life heals are necessary for the completion of this particular fight is wrong. And frankly it's insulting to DKs, Sorcs, and NBs who wish to heal, too. All classes should be able to heal fights, not just Templars. I have both a Magicka NB and Templar healer. And I have healed this dungeon on both with Pugs many, many times. When I first healed on my NB, I admit it was a bit more challenging. I had to rely on Healing Ward as my burst shield. It was more Magicka intense, requiring more heavy resto attacks. But I did it. In the end, though, Templars are still going to have it easier than other classes because they have a burst heal.

I understand your passion as a healer, especially as a Templar healer. Playing my Templar is what I enjoy the most in game. But people thinking that BoL is necessary for content just reinforces the need to nerf it or provide the Resto staff with a burst heal.

BalticBlues

BalticBlues wrote: »

provide the Resto staff with a burst heal.

And give Templars speed, mobility and DPS in return?
And then bury the Templar's clumsy healing skill tree?
Then all classes finally would be equal, having equal chances in PvE vMA and PvP 1v1?

Zheg

The new meta (at least for pvp) looks like it's going to be insanely high damage between the various sets, buffs to certain skills (like prox), etc. You know what the best and only way to function in that meta is? Go high burst, high shields. You can't mitigate it and you certainly can't heal through it - we don't have the health pools in game for that. I was trying to theorycraft how to make my magicka templar be a high burst dps build while still being able to function in cyrodiil and the best I could come up with was to renew my interest in just going to my sorc or using my DK's newly buffed magma armor. Templars do NOT have the mitigation skills or mobility skills to function in the insane dmg meta that wrobel just introduced, GG dude.

Chelos

avelopolcakb14a_ESO wrote: »

I understand your passion as a healer, especially as a Templar healer. Playing my Templar is what I enjoy the most in game. But people thinking that BoL is necessary for content just reinforces the need to nerf it or provide the Resto staff with a burst heal.

Buffing the resto staff? Ok then just remove the Templar from the game.
If not as the healing class, what would its most outstanding feature be in the game?

In a different context I keep saying: Be yourself everyone else is already taken!
That holds true with the Templar, let it be what it is, but please let it be good at it as well.

maxjapank

Zheg wrote: »

The new meta (at least for pvp) looks like it's going to be insanely high damage between the various sets, buffs to certain skills (like prox), etc. You know what the best and only way to function in that meta is? Go high burst, high shields. You can't mitigate it and you certainly can't heal through it - we don't have the health pools in game for that. I was trying to theorycraft how to make my magicka templar be a high burst dps build while still being able to function in cyrodiil and the best I could come up with was to renew my interest in just going to my sorc or using my DK's newly buffed magma armor. Templars do NOT have the mitigation skills or mobility skills to function in the insane dmg meta that wrobel just introduced, GG dude.

There are ways to mitigate damage in the current meta. But you have to build it a specific way. And none of that is changing with this new patch. And being able to use CP points to mitigate physical damage makes it even more powerful. However, you do bring up a good case for why Rune Focus should last longer after you leave the focus. That and the mobility to do so.

Xexpo

Derra

danno8 wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Neoauspex wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

While i do agree that the twilight heal is strong (too strong in my opinion) i would not say it´s better than bol for pvp or pve simply bc of the fact that dead twilight = no heal.

Dead Templar also = no heal.

If you can oneshot a templar - yeah might be an argument. Does not work for me for some reason. Pets on the other hand are cannon fodder.

Don't pets also get Hardened Ward every time you cast it?

No - the shield is not refreshable on pets. You can kill the twilight with 100% successrate (it has 10k hp) due to this.

kaalmoth

Biggest loss for me is on the reflect part, eclipse got messed up and I used that a lot, especially against DKs with hight SD spamming talons and whips. Now that double reflection is gone too, I don't see me killing a DK in a million years: spam talons, wings, and whips.
The patch comes in a month, a bit more on console, I got no hope for big changes, so I guess it's gonna be good bye till next patch. Big games are coming anyway

Brrrofski

Husan wrote: »

MissBizz wrote: »

BullNetch wrote: »

Radburn wrote: »

Suggestions for Breath of Life & Honor the Dead:

1. They should both self heal if the caster is at 50% - self preservation. Smart healing causes some grief when there are more than 4 players who are all getting smacked (pvp)
2. Have a crafted set with a 5 piece bonus that improves rushed ceremony adding 1 extra minor heal to both morphs. This would force Templars to "specialize" their build towards making BoL strong and at the same time make both morphs desirable.

This would suck. This ain't WoW, there are no class restricted sets.

The only guaranteed magicka self heals are blessing of protection(combat prayer/blessing of resto) and energy orb. Ward ally is the most powerful self bubble available to everyone.

with the major mending buff... templars could try slamming combat prayer like stam builds slam vigor.

cleanse/self bubble/slam combat prayer

@BullNetch Class specific sets do already exist. The Necropotence set increases max magicka while you have pets active. Sorcs are the only ones with pets.

While you are correct that the necropotence set is meant for sorcs, technically speaking sorcs are not the only ones with pets. Nightblade shades are pets as well, so are the summoned dwemer spheres from engine guardian and the deadroth from maw of infernal. I believe necropotence works on all of those. Of course it probably isn't the most practical, but I just wanted to point out this set - while obviously catered to sorcs - is in fact not sorc exclusive AKA class specific.

Morkuldin counts as a pet too I believe

Chelos

If the changes as they are go live the Templar will count as a pet as well

Zinaroth

Essiaga wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Tankqull wrote: »

Mr.Hmm wrote: »

Long Story Short.

Pack up people and lets change class.

jip switch to sorcs + 1 or 2 targets(with reduced ao dmg valnurability your pet(s)) to increase the impact of AOE caps and deliver hihger healing via your pet than BoL is capable off...

Ashamray wrote: »

Actually BoL is stronger than Matriarch healings. Sorc should have an enormous amount of Magicka to match BoL's strength

sadly not

small test on the PTS:
highelf sorc and templar, 64points into magica, 100points into blessing
equip: molagkena light armor helm + vicous death + willpower + mealstorm resto staff for both (1 slot unequiped)
skills: all class passivs nothing else, on the QB nothing but the two tested abilities no buffs running


conclusion:
matriarch heals much more do to lacking the 50% reduction on the secondary healed person, is cheaper, and (regarding the craptastic equipment) is still stronger on the primary healed target...

Problem is - you can´t compare these due to the crappy equipment provided on the pts.

The sorc heal only scales with magica which is - after a certain point, kind of hard to come by (but better on the pts bc spelldmg is highly dependand on using GOLD gear and enchantments zos ffs). On top of that the templar heal will be buffed by major mending in 95% of the cases if used by a competent templar.

Edit: To clarify what i mean: On a bosmer magica templar with 34k max magica my bol tooltip on live with zero points into blessed is 9520. This is on a nonoptimised build on a non magica race. I´m pretty confident i could get this much higher simply by using optimal gear and having a magica race.

A sorc pet/healbuild would be able to realisticly reach ~ 55k magica at best resulting in a 11k tooltip for absolute highend build.
Using the same gear as my templar my sorc would have a tooltip of 7800 for the twilight heal (39k max magica).

Comparison on live: 9520 for bol to 7802 (39008 max magica) for twilight heal using the same gear for a bosmer magica templar to a highelve sorc. 5 Kag 3 willpower (2 healthy) 2 Engine Guardian 2 Torug
This is mainly an issue due to the gear provided for testing which makes it almost impossible to make any conclusion bc it´s so far from optimised (i´d call it hardly usable).

While i do agree that the twilight heal is strong (too strong in my opinion) i would not say it´s better than bol for pvp or pve simply bc of the fact that dead twilight = no heal.
Nonissue in pvp because the twilight is still 1shotted. For pve - i have to say i don´t understand the change. Kind of hard to test really.

I´d fix this with making the heal always target the twilight and the sorc - leaving it with only 1 additional target.

IDK if its the new BOL or not. The sorc got more healing and no real nerf to damage or mitigation, etc.

So the point is a nerf to healing with no added mitigation or mobility for the Templar. Sorcs get some more healing, cause they couldn't just make it up with the resto staff, with out losing shields, current self heals, dps, etc. NB cloak got the DOT nerf but added Protection buff... and its mobile on a class defining skill similar to Templars BOL. Templar just gets DPS buff so they can be the new/old NB, which was simply Glass Cannons, but I'll bet even that is nerfed before Dark Brotherhood if not sooner.

I don't believe this was your point but I don't want someone else to mistake the issue as pet heal >or< BOL. Templar got less love then Pets this update.

True story.

Essiaga

Husan wrote: »

MissBizz wrote: »

BullNetch wrote: »

Radburn wrote: »

Suggestions for Breath of Life & Honor the Dead:

1. They should both self heal if the caster is at 50% - self preservation. Smart healing causes some grief when there are more than 4 players who are all getting smacked (pvp)
2. Have a crafted set with a 5 piece bonus that improves rushed ceremony adding 1 extra minor heal to both morphs. This would force Templars to "specialize" their build towards making BoL strong and at the same time make both morphs desirable.

This would suck. This ain't WoW, there are no class restricted sets.

The only guaranteed magicka self heals are blessing of protection(combat prayer/blessing of resto) and energy orb. Ward ally is the most powerful self bubble available to everyone.

with the major mending buff... templars could try slamming combat prayer like stam builds slam vigor.

cleanse/self bubble/slam combat prayer

@BullNetch Class specific sets do already exist. The Necropotence set increases max magicka while you have pets active. Sorcs are the only ones with pets.

While you are correct that the necropotence set is meant for sorcs, technically speaking sorcs are not the only ones with pets. Nightblade shades are pets as well, so are the summoned dwemer spheres from engine guardian and the deadroth from maw of infernal. I believe necropotence works on all of those. Of course it probably isn't the most practical, but I just wanted to point out this set - while obviously catered to sorcs - is in fact not sorc exclusive AKA class specific.

DK sets ... Siks of the Sun, Valkyn Skoria, (flames and DOTS)
Templar set ... Soul Shine (Channels)

few off the top of my head and while all classes can use them the clearly seem to favor specific Classes and builds with in those classes. Either way having Class balance wrapped up in armor sets or CP is stupid. If you HAVE to get your class set to reach the potential of the class while others get it from crafted gear then something is wrong with the core design of the class/game. Especially when some were not available at the cap while others were. At this point I believe most of those sets are v14 and under make the point mostly moot.

Essiaga

AfkNinja wrote: »

SirDopey wrote: »

AfkNinja wrote: »

kaalmoth wrote: »

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

tinythinker wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Dueled for about an hour or two and my biggest impression is that defensive morph of Eclipse (total dark) is noticeably worse than before. I have been using this skill forever and I felt naked because it no longer blocks spells. DK whips, NB concealed weapons and ...ehem ...soul tether! ... enemy templar charge/jabs, all this stuff was reflected and the trade for physical projectiles in no way makes up for that loss. A duel is the absolute best environment this skill is ever going to get as the one target restriction is irrelevant so there is no way I'd recommend any templar take this morph.

So it is worse after all then, @Joy_Division? Since it is single target, expensive, and has no penalty for breaking free/gaining CC immunity, at the least it should reflect all single target abilities and not just projectiles. I've posted suggestions before to make Eclipse better many times (i.e. take a lot of damage for breaking free) but this seems to be a skill that gets little thought or that devs just don't know what to do with.

In my opinion, yes the Total Dark morph is worse. It was useful previously very useful against all magical builds and even could occasionally get some stamina players who didn't bother breaking it to soul tether themselves. Now the only opponent now that is would be worth casting against is a sorcerer.

The Unstable Core version is ... I suppose a buff when looked at from strictly the perspective of Live. BUT ... consider back in Jul 2015, I was able to spam the spell as much as I wanted to AND had it reflect all spells, so it's hard for me to get all excited about it because that amounts to a net nerf.

I think you are right, the devs dont seem to know what to do with it. This skill is hard to implement and balance in PvP because of the break free mechanic.

Hard to balance in pvp, and its fairly useless in pve (the mobs that actually hurt enough where its necessary, are immune).

Just to be clear, total dark now reflects physical ranged attacks and spells, but no longer reflects whip and stuff?

It now reflects only projectiles, stamina or magic.

Has that been tested? Apple still has my mac so can't get on PTS for another day or so. The only time I used Eclipse was against magic NBs and Overload, if it doesn't reflect concealed weapon anymore then yes, another major nerf....

It has been tested, not by me, it does not reflect Concealed Weapon anymore.

Edit: I am feeling rather ignored and abandoned as a Stamplar after this patch. I see no reason to sub anymore and I have no desire to play lately. It sucks because for the last year ++ this has been my go to game to relax at night and now I just don't even want to log in.

I reached this point back in IC when they made Trails pointless, and then again with Ors when the changed harvesting, BOP, and bugged even more templar skills. These patch notes and postings on here give me no hope for the templar class. More nerfs then buffs and no changes in viability of skills.

I'm casually playing my magBlade. Templar is not worth the discouragement. Its like having a parent ignore you your entire life while showering your siblings with love and presents. Though the sometimes get punished it's obvious that your parents love them more and only keep you alive because society would frown on them if they let you die.

Templar = Cinderella. Some day our prince will come. (or is that Snow White?)

Essiaga

Zophix wrote: »

BullNetch wrote: »

This is what I don't get.

ESO is a PVE heavy game. Yet, ZOS nerfs BOL because of crying from PVP gameplay streamers.

Why not just nerf BoL in PVP only? They already nerfed healing in PVP.

How about keeping the BoL nerf exclusive to Cyrodill?

BoL... heals 2 extra allies in PVE, only 1 in PVP.

BoL is the most popular healing spell on the most popular healing class and it gets nerfed in the PTS for a PVE expansion.

BoL as it was equaled no skill, and im not talking about in PvP, I'm talking about PvE. Bol was way to retardedly easy to keep a group alive. You can't call yourself a healer by only using breath of life. So far on the PTS in the new trial, Templars healing is fine and it's actually fun because it takes more skill than before. Thats a step in the right direction, rewarding skillful play and encouraging unskillful play to learn. Also to add to it, templars now get a major mending buff (25% increase to all healing), from cleans or the rune. Seriously anyone crying about the breath of life nerf get over it, aedric spear and dawns wrath need more PvP attention than restoring light. PvE Templars are fine.

Before Changes Low Health? I'll use BoL
After Changes Low Health? Hmm should I use x, y, or z?

The larger issue is not BOL ... the issue is everyone got better and templars got nerfs.

Cloak ... doesn't remove DOTs =Nerf ... Added protection (that doesn't stick to the ground) = Buff. Give and Take.

Templars nerfed BOL, Ritual (cleansing projectiles), Blinding Flashes (yeah years ago at this point) but we have no other defenses. I'm totally in favor of BOL being nerfed by 50% ... but not with useless shields and no other in class means to stay alive. We lose ability to survive, lose our identity more and more as healing class, and have nothing given to use to replace it. That's not true we get more f-ing DPS ... which is unique and inventive in no way.

Templars are going Glass cannon, Dark Flare/BoL and both skills have their limitations. Aparently that's how ZOS plans to "balance the class."

Essiaga

maxjapank wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

The new meta (at least for pvp) looks like it's going to be insanely high damage between the various sets, buffs to certain skills (like prox), etc. You know what the best and only way to function in that meta is? Go high burst, high shields. You can't mitigate it and you certainly can't heal through it - we don't have the health pools in game for that. I was trying to theorycraft how to make my magicka templar be a high burst dps build while still being able to function in cyrodiil and the best I could come up with was to renew my interest in just going to my sorc or using my DK's newly buffed magma armor. Templars do NOT have the mitigation skills or mobility skills to function in the insane dmg meta that wrobel just introduced, GG dude.

There are ways to mitigate damage in the current meta. But you have to build it a specific way. And none of that is changing with this new patch. And being able to use CP points to mitigate physical damage makes it even more powerful. However, you do bring up a good case for why Rune Focus should last longer after you leave the focus. That and the mobility to do so.

Unimaginative game design. What this game needs is "more cow bell" if you sub the words cow bell with DPS.

Yes, there are builds that can mitigate. Sorcs with shield, streak, Lightning Form speed buff , DKs with reflect, CCs, NB with cloak, Double take, shade and all with some self healing ... that's just in class. Templars have so many unique problems (channels, cast times, no preemptive or even active defense or mitigation, no mobility, very little passive offense, very little defuffs or ligit CC, weak passives compared to 3 other classes, little utility in limited wonky skills with poorly thought out animations, and no love from the Devs) and none of those core problems improved with this update.

I'm sure you'll see a ton of new DK or old ones getting dusted off. Where with Templars ... why would you play this class?

Cinbri

After Gina answer in templar charge thread i a little bit desperate about possibility of finally fixed charge.

Jura23

Chelos wrote: »

If the changes as they are go live the Templar will count as a pet as well

lol, that's exactly what I was saying myself watching some recent vids. Templars are basically trashmobs of PvP.

Soris

Dont miss this. https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/246023/do-you-think-battle-spirit-should-affect-health-percentage-based-skills

tinythinker

Leiloni wrote: »

Honestly I think they envisioned Templar's from the beginning as a heavy armor healer, Cleric style, able to withstand damage, stand in one spot, and dish out lots of healing. However the rest of the game doesn't really support that playstyle. I wouldn't honestly mind going that way if they made it viable, however their idea for the class and how the game actually works doesn't really match up.

They can certainly fix the heavy armor line and a few of our skills to make that work, or they can just fix our skills to make the current light armor fast moving style work, but they need to pick a vision and make it happen.

And actually now that I think about it, it'd be cool if the Cleric style would be the way they go. It might also be easier for them to balance with our current healing toolset and the way our skills are designed. You can always roll another class to be a light armored mage style healer, but if Templar was your Cleric/Paladin healer, that would further solidify our niche among healers.

I agree. I've suggested changes along these lines (having Sun Shield knockdown/stun/something targets, having the Spear Wall passive add "Minor Maim" to targets whose melee attacks are blocked, etc). Things that won't hurt LA users or Stamplars but that would make the "stand your ground" theme more workable. You really need sustain, very high mitigation, and punishment to enemies who get too close to make such an approach viable with all of the CC and burst damage. Maybe add or change an ability or passive to make CC immunity last longer, too.

BalticBlues

Jura23 wrote: »

Templars are basically trashmobs of PvP.

Unfortunately, yes.

The 1v1 result of a fight Sorc vs. Templar is clear as a fight Cat vs. Mouse.
The Sorc has speed, mobility, dps, shields and Overload as a finisher.
The Templar has ... nothing at all to win such a fight.

However, most people are not interested in PvP at all.
It is not fair that the minority of PvP players now spoil PvE for the majority.
First, PvP players demand a BOL nerf, next they demand a nerf of revivals.

Sorcs/NBs demanding Templar nerfs for PvP are like cats demanding a nerf of mice.

maxjapank

Essiaga wrote: »

I'm sure you'll see a ton of new DK or old ones getting dusted off. Where with Templars ... why would you play this class?

You underestimate Templars. And I don't question why to play a Templar. I play it because I enjoy it's play style and it excels in group play. Nothing in this patch is going to diminish how I've been playing except the BoL nerf. But that is going to affect all group play, not just my group. And we'll work around it. As for other changes, it's actually making me a bit stronger.

Feel free to jump ship, though.

AriBoh

BalticBlues wrote: »

However, most people are not interested in PvP at all.
It is not fair that the minority of PvP players now spoil PvE for the majority.
First ,PvP players demand a BOL nerf, next they demand a nerf of revivals.

A lower majority aren't interested in pvp, but its still a large number of people. Most of the commenters in this thread are arguing from a pvp perspective.

BalticBlues wrote: »

Sorcs/NBs demanding Templar nerfs for PvP are like cats demanding a nerf of mice.

QFT

puffy99

Templars arguing against other Templars against BoL nerf. Geez!

Pick your battles! Have you seen what Sorc,, NB's and now DK's have in their skill tree
vs us Gimpy Temps? Can't believe this..

And now we have Templar "pro" healers telling us to get with the new difficulty program.
and use a RESTO staff when I thought we were suppose to have our own healing tree?

LMAO..