Official Feedback Thread for Templars

hedna123b14_ESO · February 2016

Cinbri wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Cryhavoc wrote: »

I am not upset about the Breath of Life change. In PvE, nothing will change at all for my gameplay.

In PvP, as a Templar healer, I will now have to use 2 skill bar sets: 1 for solo/duo and 1 for group play. BoL is no longer viable for healing groups larger than 3-4 in PvP (which is fine, mostly). BoL will work just fine for solo/duo, but that is all.

I agree, BoL was awesome in PvP, and probably needed to be toned down. For Group healing in PvP, without using a Resto staff, what will I use instead? Healing ritual? Maybe. Purifying ritual has a buff to its synergy, but I am not sure that will be enough.

My question: without using a Resto staff, how will you heal a group larger than 3 as a Magicka Templar?

sabresandiego_ESO wrote: »

Someone should test if thaumaturge is increasing the damage of jabs/sweeps.

For a jabs based build BOTH Elemental expert AND Thaumaturge buff your Jabs, Vamp Bane and Radiant Oppression, since they are all considered dots, thus running 50 in each would give you 15.6% +15.6%, or 31.2% buff to damage VS 25% if you only max one of those trees.

Sun Fire however doesn't get full bonus from both CP - Elemental Expert increasing initial hit and dot, but Thaumaturge increasing only dot and leaving initial hit untouched.
@Ffastyl i know what animation can be used for skill like Blinding Flashes - glowing aura from Sweep ultimate:
Also 2nd "light" boss in new trial apply on you glowing aura that looks almsot the same.
I suggested to change Radiant Ward to work like this (Evasion), so morph will become usefull, unlike this 1% increase.

This is correct, but i would still split points evenly for PvE since Radiant will do a larger percentage of your damage.

hedna123b14_ESO · February 2016

Kaliki wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Did the new trial on normal and was able to dark flare just fine in PvE pulling 23k+ dps...please don't tell me that you can't sustain dark flare in PvE...in PvP however I see your point...

Hmm... if I think of the Manticora, Serpent HM, Mage HM, Grobull, Endboss in Darkshade and many more encounters I do not think that I could pull off Dark Flare.
Most encounters require quick reactions to ground based mechanics. Having to cancel a cast usually lowered my dps below what I could reach with Puncturing Sweeps spam.

If you can stand still or slowly move out of things in the new trial then yes, it does awesome dps.

I actually was about to suggest one little change that would make Dark Flare feel better:

Reducing the animation time.
Right now the animation takes around 1.7 seconds. But the cast time is only 1.1 seconds. This makes Dark Flare feel a lot more sluggish then it is. So unless you cancel the skill at 1.1 seconds, you are simply stuck in the animation and slowed.

I think updating the animation was maybe forgotten when they reduced the cast time. It would be great if they could update it.

Ill be testing the animation time tonight, but as for the encounters you mentioned, I successfully used this build on them and all it takes is practice...I havent had the chance to run Serpent HM many times ( ran it a total of 5-6 times since it came out) last time I got 19.5k on him.

Joy_Division · February 2016

Tankqull wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Tankqull wrote: »

Mr.Hmm wrote: »

Long Story Short.

Pack up people and lets change class.

jip switch to sorcs + 1 or 2 targets(with reduced ao dmg valnurability your pet(s)) to increase the impact of AOE caps and deliver hihger healing via your pet than BoL is capable off...

Ashamray wrote: »

Actually BoL is stronger than Matriarch healings. Sorc should have an enormous amount of Magicka to match BoL's strength

sadly not

small test on the PTS:
highelf sorc and templar, 64points into magica, 100points into blessing
equip: molagkena light armor helm + vicous death + willpower + mealstorm resto staff for both (1 slot unequiped)
skills: all class passivs nothing else, on the QB nothing but the two tested abilities no buffs running

conclusion:
matriarch heals much more do to lacking the 50% reduction on the secondary healed person, is cheaper, and (regarding the craptastic equipment) is still stronger on the primary healed target...

Problem is - you can´t compare these due to the crappy equipment provided on the pts.

The sorc heal only scales with magica which is - after a certain point, kind of hard to come by (but better on the pts bc spelldmg is highly dependand on using GOLD gear and enchantments zos ffs). On top of that the templar heal will be buffed by major mending in 95% of the cases if used by a competent templar.

Edit: To clarify what i mean: On a bosmer magica templar with 34k max magica my bol tooltip on live with zero points into blessed is 9520. This is on a nonoptimised build on a non magica race. I´m pretty confident i could get this much higher simply by using optimal gear and having a magica race.

A sorc pet/healbuild would be able to realisticly reach ~ 55k magica at best resulting in a 11k tooltip for absolute highend build.
Using the same gear as my templar my sorc would have a tooltip of 7800 for the twilight heal (39k max magica).

Comparison on live: 9520 for bol to 7802 (39008 max magica) for twilight heal using the same gear for a bosmer magica templar to a highelve sorc. 5 Kag 3 willpower (2 healthy) 2 Engine Guardian 2 Torug
This is mainly an issue due to the gear provided for testing which makes it almost impossible to make any conclusion bc it´s so far from optimised (i´d call it hardly usable).

While i do agree that the twilight heal is strong (too strong in my opinion) i would not say it´s better than bol for pvp or pve simply bc of the fact that dead twilight = no heal.
Nonissue in pvp because the twilight is still 1shotted. For pve - i have to say i don´t understand the change. Kind of hard to test really.

I´d fix this with making the heal always target the twilight and the sorc - leaving it with only 1 additional target.

the problem with that comparison is that you do not take the second application of that heal into account, so yes the primary healed target recives a slightly bigger heal but the second healed person recieves a significant weaker version, overall 2x 7802 = 15604 by the matriarch is better than 9520+9520%2 =14280 BoL on top of that the matriarch is ~15% cheaper in use...
so even in your not optimized situation for the sorc it´s slightly ahead...

Not to mention the twilight does passive DPS

Kaliki · February 2016

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Ill be testing the animation time tonight, but as for the encounters you mentioned, I successfully used this build on them and all it takes is practice...I havent had the chance to run Serpent HM many times ( ran it a total of 5-6 times since it came out) last time I got 19.5k on him.

Ok, must be a L2 DF issue on my side then. That is serious dps.

Looking forward to your results.
Last time I tested this was on the IC PTS.
I found that you can chain up DFs in almost 1.1 sec intervals, but only if you know when to recast/keep hammering the button while casting.

Unless you cancel the last cast with block you will have to wait for the whole animation to play.

danno8 · February 2016

bikerangelo wrote: »

GhostwalkerLD wrote: »

Husan wrote: »

I've quickly tested this ability to see if the heal is spammable, and my jaw dropped when I realised it did. Am I missing something here? It's got no smart heals, does it? Is that it? It just heals the closest two? Please tell me that is the case, because otherwise I will be very confused with this ability after they plan on nerfing it's exact counterpart.

So..... they nerfed the heal from the HEALING CLASS... and gave an almost carbon-copy of it's original form to the DPS class? And the heal is just as good, if not better than BOL in it's original form??

That's just.... I don't even...

Whatever. Gives me a reason to play my sorcerer again. Maybe I"ll make him my new main, since apparently templars aren't supposed to be the 'best' healers anymore.

I know sorc's complained that they wanted a reason to use their pets again, well.. that's a hell of a reason, I'll admit. Bravo, ZOS.... bravo...

.... jerks....

*sits in the corner and cries*

Stop crying

It's not spammable like BoL

The matriarch has a mind of its own and dies quite frequently

The numbers for that heal are relatively as high as it'll get, whereas BoL can still crit twice as much

The Matriarch heal also has a 2 target heal, just like the new version of BoL

Seriously, this is not the change you should be upset about.

Purifying Ritual nerf
Jabs should snare on the first hit
Toppling Charge is still broken
Eclipse is bugged and still useless
Balanced Warrior still not balanced
Backlash is still the most pointless skill to date (and i bet nobody even knew there was a stamina morph for it)
Channeled Focus is the only ability in. the. entire. game. with a stationary requirement
Minor tweaks that the devs can pass off as "buffs" like 1 unit increases
Bad ultimates that are bad
Bad passives that don't give me the sustain to put up with the bad passives
A conspiracy theory that zose is nerfing healing and tanking and only focusing on dps
A continuous lack of synergy
A legitimate lack of utility
A lack of an aoe CC
A lack of an aoe that isn't a bad ultimate
An ultimate that literally screams "kill me first, I'm important"
A spammable dps ability that requires you to unleash your inner Freddie Mercury on every cast (dark flare)
Ridiculously expensive skills
Getting pigeonholed into the "healing" category while getting nerfed

And an all around lack of attention towards basic functionality. It's like begging for presents from Santa Clause when you know he doesn't exist.

We had the first 14 pages to complain about all that stuff. The twilight matriarch is just the latest item to make it on the list.

technohic · February 2016

Soris wrote: »

What a lovely day to vote! Sun is bright in my city. May our class see the light one day!
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/246023/do-you-think-battle-spirit-should-affect-health-percentage-based-skills

All these polls will not help. I'd say its apparent that even when ZOS directly asks for feedback it doesn't help. I wish I could say that they look at metrics so the best thing you could do is just not play your templar, but that doesn't seem to be the case when they buff dark flare and ignore solar barrage that nobody uses because it's a DPS loss and still ignore the affects of those not working on our channels.

I guess if we at least stop playing our templars, we'd just find happiness elsewhere.

Derra · February 2016

Tankqull wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Tankqull wrote: »

Mr.Hmm wrote: »

Long Story Short.

Pack up people and lets change class.

jip switch to sorcs + 1 or 2 targets(with reduced ao dmg valnurability your pet(s)) to increase the impact of AOE caps and deliver hihger healing via your pet than BoL is capable off...

Ashamray wrote: »

Actually BoL is stronger than Matriarch healings. Sorc should have an enormous amount of Magicka to match BoL's strength

sadly not

small test on the PTS:
highelf sorc and templar, 64points into magica, 100points into blessing
equip: molagkena light armor helm + vicous death + willpower + mealstorm resto staff for both (1 slot unequiped)
skills: all class passivs nothing else, on the QB nothing but the two tested abilities no buffs running

conclusion:
matriarch heals much more do to lacking the 50% reduction on the secondary healed person, is cheaper, and (regarding the craptastic equipment) is still stronger on the primary healed target...

Problem is - you can´t compare these due to the crappy equipment provided on the pts.

The sorc heal only scales with magica which is - after a certain point, kind of hard to come by (but better on the pts bc spelldmg is highly dependand on using GOLD gear and enchantments zos ffs). On top of that the templar heal will be buffed by major mending in 95% of the cases if used by a competent templar.

Edit: To clarify what i mean: On a bosmer magica templar with 34k max magica my bol tooltip on live with zero points into blessed is 9520. This is on a nonoptimised build on a non magica race. I´m pretty confident i could get this much higher simply by using optimal gear and having a magica race.

A sorc pet/healbuild would be able to realisticly reach ~ 55k magica at best resulting in a 11k tooltip for absolute highend build.
Using the same gear as my templar my sorc would have a tooltip of 7800 for the twilight heal (39k max magica).

Comparison on live: 9520 for bol to 7802 (39008 max magica) for twilight heal using the same gear for a bosmer magica templar to a highelve sorc. 5 Kag 3 willpower (2 healthy) 2 Engine Guardian 2 Torug
This is mainly an issue due to the gear provided for testing which makes it almost impossible to make any conclusion bc it´s so far from optimised (i´d call it hardly usable).

While i do agree that the twilight heal is strong (too strong in my opinion) i would not say it´s better than bol for pvp or pve simply bc of the fact that dead twilight = no heal.
Nonissue in pvp because the twilight is still 1shotted. For pve - i have to say i don´t understand the change. Kind of hard to test really.

I´d fix this with making the heal always target the twilight and the sorc - leaving it with only 1 additional target.

the problem with that comparison is that you do not take the second application of that heal into account, so yes the primary healed target recives a slightly bigger heal but the second healed person recieves a significant weaker version, overall 2x 7802 = 15604 by the matriarch is better than 9520+9520%2 =14280 BoL on top of that the matriarch is ~15% cheaper in use...
so even in your not optimized situation for the sorc it´s slightly ahead...

If you need aoe heal - yes. For singletarget heals ofc not. Especially as the range is calculated from the twilights Position.
I still think bol will be ahead on an optimal build.

As i said this is easily fixed by making the heal always target sorc and twilight with one additional target.

Soris · February 2016

technohic wrote: »

Soris wrote: »

What a lovely day to vote! Sun is bright in my city. May our class see the light one day!
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/246023/do-you-think-battle-spirit-should-affect-health-percentage-based-skills

All these polls will not help. I'd say its apparent that even when ZOS directly asks for feedback it doesn't help. I wish I could say that they look at metrics so the best thing you could do is just not play your templar, but that doesn't seem to be the case when they buff dark flare and ignore solar barrage that nobody uses because it's a DPS loss and still ignore the affects of those not working on our channels.

I guess if we at least stop playing our templars, we'd just find happiness elsewhere.

Now or never. I don't want to wait 5 more months to fix one single thing. It's now a great opportunity to give all the feedback we can until this patch goes live.
Even if it will likely getting ignored again, it's still better to work for it than waiting for your judge and doing nothing.

Eas007 · February 2016

danno8 wrote: »

technohic wrote: »

danno8 wrote: »

Essiaga wrote: »

Just tried it. The Minor Protection and Minor Vitality fall of immediately upon leaving the Rune.

The magicka return has always worked outside the RUNE for Channeled Focus, but they really do seem intent on nerfing that aspect of it. I think they are having trouble with it because it is not a standard "buff" they can apply and remove so easily.

If they do manage to actually nerf it one day I will be very upset. Templar is already the least mobile of all classes and they are trying to make then even more immobile? It makes no sense!

That's not a buff, that's a nerf...

AfkNinja wrote: »

Also ZOS, thank you for Nerfing the healing on Puncturing Sweeps by 5% and not including it in the patch notes. Real cool move bro's.

They what?!

Mumyo wrote: »

Axebleed still doesnt work on jabs even though its melee and physical dmg.

sigh

Soris wrote: »

I just discovered another stealth nerf. Blazing spear stun radius decreased to its animation radius not the yellow circle you see while putting it. Test yorself please and see.

Edit, it is actually between the animation radius and that yellow circle radius. This isnt working like this in live. Why did you do this zeni?

I cried a little inside...

bikerangelo · February 2016

danno8 wrote: »

bikerangelo wrote: »

GhostwalkerLD wrote: »

Husan wrote: »

I've quickly tested this ability to see if the heal is spammable, and my jaw dropped when I realised it did. Am I missing something here? It's got no smart heals, does it? Is that it? It just heals the closest two? Please tell me that is the case, because otherwise I will be very confused with this ability after they plan on nerfing it's exact counterpart.

So..... they nerfed the heal from the HEALING CLASS... and gave an almost carbon-copy of it's original form to the DPS class? And the heal is just as good, if not better than BOL in it's original form??

That's just.... I don't even...

Whatever. Gives me a reason to play my sorcerer again. Maybe I"ll make him my new main, since apparently templars aren't supposed to be the 'best' healers anymore.

I know sorc's complained that they wanted a reason to use their pets again, well.. that's a hell of a reason, I'll admit. Bravo, ZOS.... bravo...

.... jerks....

*sits in the corner and cries*

Stop crying

It's not spammable like BoL

The matriarch has a mind of its own and dies quite frequently

The numbers for that heal are relatively as high as it'll get, whereas BoL can still crit twice as much

The Matriarch heal also has a 2 target heal, just like the new version of BoL

Seriously, this is not the change you should be upset about.

Purifying Ritual nerf
Jabs should snare on the first hit
Toppling Charge is still broken
Eclipse is bugged and still useless
Balanced Warrior still not balanced
Backlash is still the most pointless skill to date (and i bet nobody even knew there was a stamina morph for it)
Channeled Focus is the only ability in. the. entire. game. with a stationary requirement
Minor tweaks that the devs can pass off as "buffs" like 1 unit increases
Bad ultimates that are bad
Bad passives that don't give me the sustain to put up with the bad passives
A conspiracy theory that zose is nerfing healing and tanking and only focusing on dps
A continuous lack of synergy
A legitimate lack of utility
A lack of an aoe CC
A lack of an aoe that isn't a bad ultimate
An ultimate that literally screams "kill me first, I'm important"
A spammable dps ability that requires you to unleash your inner Freddie Mercury on every cast (dark flare)
Ridiculously expensive skills
Getting pigeonholed into the "healing" category while getting nerfed

And an all around lack of attention towards basic functionality. It's like begging for presents from Santa Clause when you know he doesn't exist.

We had the first 14 pages to complain about all that stuff. The twilight matriarch is just the latest item to make it on the list.

I'm a cynic, I've seen 17 threads concerning Breath of Life, which honestly isn't that big of a deal. If ZOS wants to push us into the dps category, they should at least give us some skills that put us on par with the other classes.

@GhostwalkerLD
I wasn't being sarcastic, but because it was 1:00 in the morning and I had spent all day on the PTS switching between my templar and my sorc pet build, I had to vent. Also, stop questioning my reading comprehension with every other sentence, because it's annoying. In my opinion, the BoL nerf is the least impactful change to the templar class, because the majority of healers are running a resto staff that has plenty of healing abilities to cope with. I haven't read every damn page of this thread and I'm not going to go looking for your comments, because everyone is saying the same thing and apparently has been for years. The list I made isn't a list of alternate subjects we should be talking about instead of BoL, it's an example of everything ZOS still got wrong after months of input from us. Someone said they had a meeting with the devs and said that the devs are reading our feedback and taking notes thoroughly, but that just tells me that nobody at ZOS has actually played the templar class in a relatively competetive state to understand which changes need to be made.
I'm pointing out a slightly futile discussion with heavy cynicism that's been brewing for a while with good reason. We're on the same side, I'm just in less of a mood to joke about it than you are.

Neoauspex · February 2016

Derra wrote: »

While i do agree that the twilight heal is strong (too strong in my opinion) i would not say it´s better than bol for pvp or pve simply bc of the fact that dead twilight = no heal.

Dead Templar also = no heal.

Radburn · February 2016

Try mixing in Shield charge & Javelin with your jabs. Snare + Stun + Knockdown sounds like it will be very effective.

Soris · February 2016

With the increased range on javelin, it is effective. I used it with crit charge from max range. Javelin and crit charge lands on target almost at the same time and I was able to land couple hits of jabs on my target before the knockdown animation ends. It's a good upfront burst.

Radburn · February 2016

Suggestions for Breath of Life & Honor the Dead:

1. They should both self heal if the caster is at 50% - self preservation. Smart healing causes some grief when there are more than 4 players who are all getting smacked (pvp)
2. Have a crafted set with a 5 piece bonus that improves rushed ceremony adding 1 extra minor heal to both morphs. This would force Templars to "specialize" their build towards making BoL strong and at the same time make both morphs desirable.

technohic · February 2016

Soris wrote: »

With the increased range on javelin, it is effective. I used it with crit charge from max range. Javelin and crit charge lands on target almost at the same time and I was able to land couple hits of jabs on my target before the knockdown animation ends. It's a good upfront burst.

Is true. Just got in and checked. Aurora Javeling got a stealth buff. Now has a stun with it rather than just be a KB.

cazlonb16_ESO · February 2016

nagarjunna wrote: »

I find it sad that this official feedback thread is around twice as long as any of the other official feedback threads. The crafting one excepted!

'nuff said!

What's sad is that it will go completely ignored, just as the many long constructive Templar threads before.

BullNetch · February 2016

Radburn wrote: »

Suggestions for Breath of Life & Honor the Dead:

1. They should both self heal if the caster is at 50% - self preservation. Smart healing causes some grief when there are more than 4 players who are all getting smacked (pvp)
2. Have a crafted set with a 5 piece bonus that improves rushed ceremony adding 1 extra minor heal to both morphs. This would force Templars to "specialize" their build towards making BoL strong and at the same time make both morphs desirable.

This would suck. This ain't WoW, there are no class restricted sets.

The only guaranteed magicka self heals are blessing of protection(combat prayer/blessing of resto) and energy orb. Ward ally is the most powerful self bubble available to everyone.

with the major mending buff... templars could try slamming combat prayer like stam builds slam vigor.

cleanse/self bubble/slam combat prayer

Shelgon · February 2016

I'm going to give my feedback on stamina templar in PvP.

Biting Jabs: I really like the new change to it, the snare is very powerful and allows us templars to keep sustain damage we were meant to have without giving the enemy a free CC at times. It is still one of abilities that is most heavily influenced by latency issues, causing it to miss even when aimed towards the enemy, but that's a problem for another day. Overall, positive change.

Binding Javelin: I wouldn't say I specifically wanted, or thought about increasing the range on this move, but after using it in the PTS, I enjoy the extra 21 meters on my javelin when near a keep, I honestly hope it doesn't change.

Toppling Charge: Seems to work fine now to me, others said they were still having some problems with it, none so far on my end.

Blazing Shield: Lesbehonest, it's still pretty useless unless you're running like 40k+ health.

Radial Sweep: Still useless in PvP.

Power of the Light: Still useless in PvP.

Focused Healing Passive: Major Mending? Literally the best thing I've read on that patch notes list.

Restoring Focus: Definitely going to be using this on my bar for full defensive mode with purifying ritual. Major Mending, Minor Vitality, and Minor Protection, insane mitigation and healing. Good change.

Overall, stamina templars are looking better than they did last patch, not by a long shot, but better nonetheless. Last patch, combined with wrecking blow, we had burst damage as well as sustain damage with jabs, but we didn't have any native survivability. Stamplars DID take a big hit with the new Physical Damage mitgation CP, because Biting Jabs didn't even hit for that much to begin with when you take into account how many jabs actually land in a real fight between 2 skilled players, but we got a boost in our survivability with Major Mending, and the Restoring Focus buff, which is always a good thing, so +1 for that.

It's hard to say what I would suggest, mostly because that suggestion is quite basically increasing puncturing strikes damage, because I really do feel like relative to the amount of hits that land (in the fights or situations that matter), you aren't doing as much damage as you should be with your main damage ability. It's a difficult thing to suggest because the problem isn't LITERALLY, "jabs and sweeps aren't doing enough damage", they're doing good damage, but it isn't realistic PvP damage. What I mean by that is, in a realistic fight with players moving around, jabs and sweeps don't land as much as they should, thus not dealing as much damage as the skill is intended to deal, not because of incompetence or L2P, but because of latency, I'm aiming my strikes towards the enemy and they are clearly in my AoE, but they are taking much fewer strikes.

So really, there's 3 ways out of this predicament:

1. Increase Puncturing Strikes damage to make up for the many jabs that miss even while clearly aiming at the opponent.
(This is an extreme band-aid fix, if you do this it'll help us out, but this is probably the most lazy thing you could do to fix the problem with Templar PvP damage, absolutely do not recommend.)

2. Fix Puncturing Strikes' latency issues, reverberating bash is a great example of an ability that is clearly server sided, it doesn't matter where the other person is on their screen, if you're in range on my screen, you're getting power bashed. Puncturing Strikes right now always seems to be sided on the other players client, it doesn't matter if they are in range on my screen, if they are out of range on their screen it's fine, and due to unavoidable server lag (.5-1 second delay naturally) I get screwed over cuz im basically attacking a fake player on my end. (Best fix, idk how you'll do it, idk if I made any sense, but I just want my main damage ability to hit.)

3. Give us an ability we can reliably do damage with that isn't Wrecking blow, but I feel like the same goes for stam DK's and stam sorcs. (I don't even want this tbh, I like jabs, and I don't want it to get taken out, but what's the point when everyone else can consistently do damage and I'm here attacking their afterimage)

Derra · February 2016

Neoauspex wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

While i do agree that the twilight heal is strong (too strong in my opinion) i would not say it´s better than bol for pvp or pve simply bc of the fact that dead twilight = no heal.

Dead Templar also = no heal.

If you can oneshot a templar - yeah might be an argument. Does not work for me for some reason. Pets on the other hand are cannon fodder.

Cinbri · February 2016

1. Since Templar is last class without Major Sorcery buff - add this buff upon casting Radinat Aura/Repentance.
2. I finally realized why even after buff i still don't like Restoring Focus: back before buffs system, I used it to same way as Igneous Shield for dks - be on low hp-cast Focus-get high healing buff-get super high heal-run from Focus to do rest of the staff, thats why back at those time this morph was equal to Channeked Focus.
Current working inside 5m rune is just penalizing too much, there is no way anyone will stay inside it. Templar will stay inside only when heavily outnumberd, but than skill, especially after chaning of Focused Healing(spammed Focus-ran away spamming heals while major mending buffed-recast fcous after 4 sec-... ), not giving high enough bonuses(btw i saw some people mistakenly think that Minor Protection is 15% buff, it is not - it is 8% buff and only inside rune). Unless it will giving something like Major Evasion inside rune only this skill will be very weak for pvp. So instead of trying to balance it with minor buffs, etc. just make it to restore stamina without needs to stay inside.
And if for some reason they will make Channeled Focus mana return to proc only inside rune - it won't make both morphs equal, it will be just a huge nerf to one of the morphs .

caeliusstarbreaker · February 2016

technohic wrote: »

Husan wrote: »

I've quickly tested this ability to see if the heal is spammable, and my jaw dropped when I realised it did. Am I missing something here? It's got no smart heals, does it? Is that it? It just heals the closest two? Please tell me that is the case, because otherwise I will be very confused with this ability after they plan on nerfing it's exact counterpart.

Isn't the matriarch a creature that attacks with single target spells? I'm just thinking it makes a nice target for total dark and free heals if so and more sorcs start using it. Or; could be just easier to reroll sorc and have my one big heal still along with a real damage shield and mobility.

caeliusstarbreaker wrote: »

I'd rather have the stun on jabs than the snare.

I have no idea why. Nothing like a melee ability that knocks targets back out of it's own range.....

Few reasons being the exploiter cp passive, strafing on a wb casting target, apply a CC for another high dmging attack to follow up with, timing the 4th hit to hit a target at the end of a dodgeroll, the CC when you have exhausted a blocking target.

dodgehopper_ESO · February 2016

I just want to say, lets not get off track in our feedback, with a desire to pull other classes down. I am personally happy that ZoS is trying to find a way to give Sorcerers a better means to heal. I feel that they really need to make Crits operate versus shields, which would help everyone, and likely make it more feasible in their minds to get rid of the ridiculous Battle Spirit buffs/changes. I think while they do this they need to also make all shields based off of Health, period. I know a lot of Sorcerers loathe this idea, but I welcome it, because it starts to push them in the right direction as tanks. If you are also giving them the healing pet and a crit surge that works, they should be perfectly fine for mitigation without having the strongest heal + highest dps. Sorcerer is the only reason we have nerfed shields to begin with as DK/Templar.

With the solid nerfs to cloaking/stealth I think its time they could also put a magic shield component to at least one of the morphs of Bone Shield, while also offering us a lesser Cloak skill available to all other players (Thieves guild active?). It is not as though iconic skills from other classes are not available in other forms elsewhere (Purge for instance). Nightblade would still have a whole bevy of bonuses for firing from stealth, and still be the stealth specialist. I realize that some of these suggestions are not popular, but they are offered in an attempt to equalize all classes to one another, which is clearly ZoS' aim here.

My assessment of Templar:
1) Mobility or lack thereof: Rune Focus has always been too confining, and was supposed to be balanced by healing and a strong shield. Instead the shield has been driven down a lot in functionality, and the heal is nonfunctional to a Stamplar. Standing your ground in red circles or letting your team in pvp run off without you is a nonsense game design. Get rid of Rune Focus and just give us a glowing armor of some kind more equivalent to something like Boundless or Spike armor, that carries with the player. One morph could offer evasion/movement and the other could offer the magicka recovery bonus. If they truly expect us to stand our ground and stand still, we should be significantly tougher than we are. I'm not sure that's a good idea for balance reasons, so why not just make our mitigation skills operate more in line with other classes, otherwise our mitigation will always play second fiddle.
2) Sun Shield is reasonable in pve because packs of mobs are stupid, and they take the full damage/full resistance. In PvP you get neither, and like I have said before the shield was already nerfed. The cost of this skill is high, and the duration is exhorbitantly low. This is a serious opportunity cost skill, because far too much time is taken in spamming it, to do other things with respect to the likes of Hardened Ward or Obsidian Shield. Up the duration or lower the cost significantly - for balance reasons I think upping the duration is the logical thing to do, and if the damage portion is the cause of the problem, you can trade features off with Rune Focus to handle a damage pulse instead if that is easier to balance.
3) Eclipse has always been the Templar 'reflective scales' but also has always functionally inferior. Scales is fire and forget, Eclipse is try to fire, then give away free cc immunity in pvp. In pve Eclipse is useful against mobs you don't need to fire it on, and worthless versus the mobs where it matters (bosses). In short this skill has always underperformed in my estimation, and has also had some really bad bugs associated with it. I'd like to see them simplify and go with something more along the lines of the bolt from bolt escape or reflective scale. This skill is to situational and too easily countered to be worthwhile.
4) Backlash - I have tried to like this skill as a stamina player, in part because it was the only skill from Dawn's wrath worth picking up if you wanted a passive from this tree (ultimate generation really). Between Enduring Rays, cast time, and the rest this skill has always only been 'useful' in a team environment, but often ends up being a net loss. I'm hopeful the changes in PTS are good, but I'm doubtful.
5) Jabs - It would be nice if we had greater control on our characters during the Jab animation. This might make this skill more viable. I'm told in PTS it is harder to chain attacks, which should help in firing off channels a bit. I'm actually fine with Sorcerer and DK getting a reasonable stamina execute like they keep demanding on the forums, but they SERIOUSLY need to make Jabs better if they do this. They might consider giving Biting Jabs an execute range, since the class doesn't offer any form of execute as a stamplar, either that or offer a Stamina Radiant Destruction.
6) Javelin - The increase in range was a very good thing, but I'm in agreement with some of the others that the damage component could be higher, or it would be well served to have some other secondary effect of value to make it comparable to similar class skills.
7) Radiant Aura/Repentance - They need to give Templar its passive regeneration back, particularly in light of changes to other classes. Nightblade is essentially getting the old Templar passives, that were considered OP in beta. If they wish to retain Radiant in particular as a team buff, it shouldn't clash with the most common Major effects used by people with potions. Radiant is essentially a bad potion effect, and a lot of us don't like that so we end up hovering health and stamina off of corpses.
8) Healing Ritual needs serious work. The aoe range ought to be upped, and I would suggest they go with instant cast and applying a HoT. They could even offer one morph akin to dragon blood for tank Templars, and one aoe morph for healers.
9) Focused Charge - Since Teleports work well, why not stylistically copy the Vosh Raka charge/slam move. It looks fantastic and is obviously Templar inspired. Reports are coming in that this skill is still really unresponsive.
10) Spear Shards: Why is this not an aoe CC already? If you compare to something like Cinders and Talons this skill looks really bad. The only time I ever liked this skill was when it was spammable, and the cc stacking was a broken system. I'm fine with the red circle, but really it was easy to avoid this skill anyway with the huge telegraph (something almost everything Templar does).
11) Radiant destruction is a nice skill, and I am looking forward to using it as a Templar mage. As a Templar tank or Stamplar though I really miss having my pbaoe cc. This skill was a net loss for that build. I sugest we get our cc back here or consider giving us a Stamina Morph 'Crusader's Retribution' or something lets call it.
12) Cleansing Ritual - The application of mending is a good thing, and brings Templar back somewhat to where it use to be stylistically. This is probably one of the best things they have done for the class.
13) Dark Flare vs. Solar Barrage - Seriously look at fixing Solar Barrage, it is like a low quality Impulse.
14) Radial Sweep - Needs more area of effect or stronger effect to be comparable.
15) Remembrance needs better team mitigation or people will just choose to use something else like Replenishing Barrier.

phillyboy7897 · February 2016

Magicka Templar pvp DD here

I really like most/all of these changes

Sweeps change awesome. That is a super bummer the heal is getting toned down. This will not get a benefit from major mending. It is used after we toppling charge out of our ritual.

Rune. Super bummer. I may need to use immovable instead, as a magicka real bummer that I need to go out of class to use a stamina ability.

Dark flare awesome

Eclipse. Really awesome. The aoe morph will allow use to Zerg bust for you and help with lag. Any skill punishing clumping is great!

BoL. You have heard enough.

Backlash. This change is why I am posting. It's part of my pvp dps rotation. Most people are saying they don't understand what the change means because they don't know what this skill is because nobody uses it in PvP. I see one other player use it once every 2 days.

That is bc this skill is hit twice by battle spirit in PvP. 1st when it is storing damage, the damage you do to the player is reduced 50% by battle spirit. IE u hit the player for 5k instead of 10k. Now it only stores 47% of that. 2400 dmg stored. In PvE this would be 4700 dmg stored. The second hit is when it is outputting damage instead of dealing 15k it does 7500. That is a double hit from battle spirit and enough of a reason for most ppl to never use it. I still use it bc I do enough dmg.

If you are attempting to buff the dmg on this skill u succeeded in PvE. In PvP however this skill will become so garbage that even I cannot use it. 66% damage stored reduction when you are fighting through player mitigation and battle spirit. I heard that it stores only 22% damage on PTS now. Let's look at that. My tooltip on this is 18k max damage. Ignore the 25% bonus u are giving that maximum damage bc I am not trying to dramatize.

18,000 x (100/22) = 81,818

I have to do 81k damage to a player in 6 seconds to get this to hit as hard as it used to.

Before

18,000 x (100/47) = 38,297

I don't care who you're fighting they are dead after taking 81k damage in 6 seconds. In addition It is impossible for me or anyone else to output that kind of damage. You are fighting through battle spirit and all of their mitigation.

The only possible use is Zerg v Zerg when someone's getting multiple heals, and the zergs don't want it, they will not use this ability, they have proxy steel tornado and impulse.

Please reconsider your change to this skill, or make it not be double hit by battle spirit or templars will lose a dps option. If these changes go through it won't even be me and a few others using backlash in Cyrodiil/ic it will be 0.

hedna123b14_ESO · February 2016

phillyboy7897 wrote: »

Magicka Templar pvp DD here

I really like most/all of these changes

Sweeps change awesome. That is a super bummer the heal is getting toned down. This will not get a benefit from major mending. It is used after we toppling charge out of our ritual.

Rune. Super bummer. I may need to use immovable instead, as a magicka real bummer that I need to go out of class to use a stamina ability.

Dark flare awesome

Eclipse. Really awesome. The aoe morph will allow use to Zerg bust for you and help with lag. Any skill punishing clumping is great!

BoL. You have heard enough.

Backlash. This change is why I am posting. It's part of my pvp dps rotation. Most people are saying they don't understand what the change means because they don't know what this skill is because nobody uses it in PvP. I see one other player use it once every 2 days.

That is bc this skill is hit twice by battle spirit in PvP. 1st when it is storing damage, the damage you do to the player is reduced 50% by battle spirit. IE u hit the player for 5k instead of 10k. Now it only stores 47% of that. 2400 dmg stored. In PvE this would be 4700 dmg stored. The second hit is when it is outputting damage instead of dealing 15k it does 7500. That is a double hit from battle spirit and enough of a reason for most ppl to never use it. I still use it bc I do enough dmg.

If you are attempting to buff the dmg on this skill u succeeded in PvE. In PvP however this skill will become so garbage that even I cannot use it. 66% damage stored reduction when you are fighting through player mitigation and battle spirit. I heard that it stores only 22% damage on PTS now. Let's look at that. My tooltip on this is 18k max damage. Ignore the 25% bonus u are giving that maximum damage bc I am not trying to dramatize.

18,000 x (100/22) = 81,818

I have to do 81k damage to a player in 6 seconds to get this to hit as hard as it used to.

Before

18,000 x (100/47) = 38,297

I don't care who you're fighting they are dead after taking 81k damage in 6 seconds. In addition It is impossible for me or anyone else to output that kind of damage. You are fighting through battle spirit and all of their mitigation.

The only possible use is Zerg v Zerg when someone's getting multiple heals, and the zergs don't want it, they will not use this ability, they have proxy steel tornado and impulse.

Please reconsider your change to this skill, or make it not be double hit by battle spirit or templars will lose a dps option. If these changes go through it won't even be me and a few others using backlash in Cyrodiil/ic it will be 0.

Wow that does suck...

Soris · February 2016

@dodgehopper_ESO I dont see any reason why adding extra duration to BS will make it somewhat better. It sucks either way.

hedna123b14_ESO · February 2016

Kaliki wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Did the new trial on normal and was able to dark flare just fine in PvE pulling 23k+ dps...please don't tell me that you can't sustain dark flare in PvE...in PvP however I see your point...

Hmm... if I think of the Manticora, Serpent HM, Mage HM, Grobull, Endboss in Darkshade and many more encounters I do not think that I could pull off Dark Flare.
Most encounters require quick reactions to ground based mechanics. Having to cancel a cast usually lowered my dps below what I could reach with Puncturing Sweeps spam.

If you can stand still or slowly move out of things in the new trial then yes, it does awesome dps.

I actually was about to suggest one little change that would make Dark Flare feel better:

Reducing the animation time.
Right now the animation takes around 1.7 seconds. But the cast time is only 1.1 seconds. This makes Dark Flare feel a lot more sluggish then it is. So unless you cancel the skill at 1.1 seconds, you are simply stuck in the animation and slowed.

I think updating the animation was maybe forgotten when they reduced the cast time. It would be great if they could update it.

Hey you are right it does take longer than 1.1 seconda, but my results only indicate around 1.35-1.4 seconds. Still hits so hard though...

SirDopey · February 2016

Mojmir wrote: »

call it conspiracy, but with the changes to DK and sorc, Templar is being phased out. I expect by dark brotherhood they'll be in the unemployment line.

Yep, I 100% agree with you here. Not sure if they'll just delete it all together or "reroll" it as some other DPS class but I feel its highly unlikely the Templar class will survive the next DLC....

MissBizz · February 2016

BullNetch wrote: »

Radburn wrote: »

Suggestions for Breath of Life & Honor the Dead:

1. They should both self heal if the caster is at 50% - self preservation. Smart healing causes some grief when there are more than 4 players who are all getting smacked (pvp)
2. Have a crafted set with a 5 piece bonus that improves rushed ceremony adding 1 extra minor heal to both morphs. This would force Templars to "specialize" their build towards making BoL strong and at the same time make both morphs desirable.

This would suck. This ain't WoW, there are no class restricted sets.

The only guaranteed magicka self heals are blessing of protection(combat prayer/blessing of resto) and energy orb. Ward ally is the most powerful self bubble available to everyone.

with the major mending buff... templars could try slamming combat prayer like stam builds slam vigor.

cleanse/self bubble/slam combat prayer

@BullNetch Class specific sets do already exist. The Necropotence set increases max magicka while you have pets active. Sorcs are the only ones with pets.

SirDopey · February 2016

Mojmir wrote: »

1.) radial sweep still misses targets directly in front of you, regardless of range change. is it an axis issue?
2.) toppling locked me up a couple of times: once inside the trial,2nd time was a test on the lamia world boss

2) Really worried me, the patch notes specifically mentioned stuck in animation but not the weapon/ability lock bug, there are clearly two different bugs going on with this skill on live. @ZOS_GinaBruno has previously said both were meant to be fixed with this DLC, now I'm not so sure ZOS realized the difference between the two bugs.

AriBoh · February 2016

MissBizz wrote: »

BullNetch wrote: »

Radburn wrote: »

Suggestions for Breath of Life & Honor the Dead:

1. They should both self heal if the caster is at 50% - self preservation. Smart healing causes some grief when there are more than 4 players who are all getting smacked (pvp)
2. Have a crafted set with a 5 piece bonus that improves rushed ceremony adding 1 extra minor heal to both morphs. This would force Templars to "specialize" their build towards making BoL strong and at the same time make both morphs desirable.

This would suck. This ain't WoW, there are no class restricted sets.

The only guaranteed magicka self heals are blessing of protection(combat prayer/blessing of resto) and energy orb. Ward ally is the most powerful self bubble available to everyone.

with the major mending buff... templars could try slamming combat prayer like stam builds slam vigor.

cleanse/self bubble/slam combat prayer

@BullNetch Class specific sets do already exist. The Necropotence set increases max magicka while you have pets active. Sorcs are the only ones with pets.

Doesnt a NBs shade count as a pet? People were theory crafting using the Hunt leader Set ((5 items) Gain 1216 Stamina and 2432 Health when your pets attack an enemy you have also attacked recently. Can occur once per 5 seconds.) on NBs.

Back on topic, give us buffs!