Ron_Burgundy_79 wrote: »It's a true statement.
I've rarely seen anyone other than a stamblade use DBoS. I like your suggestions to soul harvest but 15% decrease might be a bit to much there
So let me get this straight. You want a cheap high dmg spammable with a "viper on steroids" attached to it. And you also want a high dmg ult, that is so cheap to the point where u can use it every other rotation, applies major defile, gives you a 20% dmg buff, gives ult, gives you a speed buff and snare immunity for 5 seconds which means you will be prety much immune to snares all the time. And this is not overpowered according to you.
Wanna double the dmg of spectral bow too? Or maybe impale having execute dmg from 50% hp?
Ron_Burgundy_79 wrote: »It's a true statement.
Believing in Santa with all my might won't make him anymore real.
Ron_Burgundy_79 wrote: »Ron_Burgundy_79 wrote: »It's a true statement.
Believing in Santa with all my might won't make him anymore real.
I basically copied the tool tip from wiki, which is a true statement. Then I essentially said show me a better ultimate. Never said anything false, but keep doing your thing bud.
@BohnT
You know, next patch everyone will have an "Incap" with the Off Balance stun, the stun will just come from the medium weave in the rotation rather than the ultimate.
In terms of damage, it's actually fairly balanced for its cost (if not slightly underperforming), Incap has one of the lowest ultimate tooltips in the game for a single target ultimate.
2H Ulti deals between 20-50% more damage, Leap & Warden bear deal around 25%~ more damage etc
ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Short answer is DKs likely won't be seeing a ton of changes before we go live; this class is still quite powerful (as it should be being a tank), even after some of the adjustments we've made to other classes and abilities.
@BohnT
You know, next patch everyone will have an "Incap" with the Off Balance stun, the stun will just come from the medium weave in the rotation rather than the ultimate.
In terms of damage, it's actually fairly balanced for its cost (if not slightly underperforming), Incap has one of the lowest ultimate tooltips in the game for a single target ultimate.
2H Ulti deals between 20-50% more damage, Leap & Warden bear deal around 25%~ more damage etc
Incap underperforming? That explains why no one uses it.
Seriously though. Did you just lament that incap does "20-50%" less damage than 2H Ult which costs twice as much as Incap? And doesn't apply Major Defile? And doesn't increase your damage against that target by 20% for 6 seconds? And doesn't stun?
Clearly underperforming.
@BohnT
You know, next patch everyone will have an "Incap" with the Off Balance stun, the stun will just come from the medium weave in the rotation rather than the ultimate.
In terms of damage, it's actually fairly balanced for its cost (if not slightly underperforming), Incap has one of the lowest ultimate tooltips in the game for a single target ultimate.
2H Ulti deals between 20-50% more damage, Leap & Warden bear deal around 25%~ more damage etc
Incap underperforming? That explains why no one uses it.
Seriously though. Did you just lament that incap does "20-50%" less damage than 2H Ult which costs twice as much as Incap? And doesn't apply Major Defile? And doesn't increase your damage against that target by 20% for 6 seconds? And doesn't stun?
Clearly underperforming.
And doesn't ignore all resistances with a crazy high tooltip? And doesn't make you an immortal god for like 8 seconds? And doesn't still have a relatively low cost? And doesn't have any abilities that can actually be purged or rolldodge away from? I can't believe you're even doing this lol you're literally easy bait.
Go back to dk pls
ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Short answer is DKs likely won't be seeing a ton of changes before we go live; this class is still quite powerful (as it should be being a tank), even after some of the adjustments we've made to other classes and abilities.
@BohnT
You know, next patch everyone will have an "Incap" with the Off Balance stun, the stun will just come from the medium weave in the rotation rather than the ultimate.
In terms of damage, it's actually fairly balanced for its cost (if not slightly underperforming), Incap has one of the lowest ultimate tooltips in the game for a single target ultimate.
2H Ulti deals between 20-50% more damage, Leap & Warden bear deal around 25%~ more damage etc
Incap underperforming? That explains why no one uses it.
Seriously though. Did you just lament that incap does "20-50%" less damage than 2H Ult which costs twice as much as Incap? And doesn't apply Major Defile? And doesn't increase your damage against that target by 20% for 6 seconds? And doesn't stun?
Clearly underperforming.
And doesn't ignore all resistances with a crazy high tooltip? And doesn't make you an immortal god for like 8 seconds? And doesn't still have a relatively low cost? And doesn't have any abilities that can actually be purged or rolldodge away from? I can't believe you're even doing this lol you're literally easy bait.
Go back to dk pls
Ah so that explains why no one uses 2H ult then. Clearly it's just too OP for anyone to actually use. Clearly.
@BohnT
You know, next patch everyone will have an "Incap" with the Off Balance stun, the stun will just come from the medium weave in the rotation rather than the ultimate.
In terms of damage, it's actually fairly balanced for its cost (if not slightly underperforming), Incap has one of the lowest ultimate tooltips in the game for a single target ultimate.
2H Ulti deals between 20-50% more damage, Leap & Warden bear deal around 25%~ more damage etc
Incap underperforming? That explains why no one uses it.
Seriously though. Did you just lament that incap does "20-50%" less damage than 2H Ult which costs twice as much as Incap? And doesn't apply Major Defile? And doesn't increase your damage against that target by 20% for 6 seconds? And doesn't stun?
Clearly underperforming.
And doesn't ignore all resistances with a crazy high tooltip? And doesn't make you an immortal god for like 8 seconds? And doesn't still have a relatively low cost? And doesn't have any abilities that can actually be purged or rolldodge away from? I can't believe you're even doing this lol you're literally easy bait.
Go back to dk pls
Ah so that explains why no one uses 2H ult then. Clearly it's just too OP for anyone to actually use. Clearly.
Of course incap is better, but that doesn't shut down the ult completely. Incap is a class ultimate, it's supposed to be unique for the class it's being played on. 2h ult is still a viable option for other classes. They way you put it is as if incap would be the be all end all ultimate in this game.
I'd gladly take magicka leap over incap any day of the week. Just saying
ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Short answer is DKs likely won't be seeing a ton of changes before we go live; this class is still quite powerful (as it should be being a tank), even after some of the adjustments we've made to other classes and abilities.
Ron_Burgundy_79 wrote: »It's a true statement.
Believing in Santa with all my might won't make him anymore real.
Even if I could slot Incap on my stamsorc, I'd still use DBoS for the DoT in order to proc Implosion.
On my stamDK, sure it's more of a tossup, but I'd still prefer Leap or DBoS in open world since I can't reset fights in the way stamSorcs or Stamblades can.
In a 1v1, Incap is the strongest ultimate, but the assassin class should have an edge in 1v1 regardless. Again, the word to keep in mind is "situationally". Incap should be the benchmark class ultimate. DBoS, Incap, Northern Storm, Soul Assault (live) and to a lesser extent; Leap, Meteor, Soul Tether, Destro ultimate, Ballista etc, can completely change the flow of a fight if used correctly. This is what an ultimate should be doing. Majority of Ultimates are simply lacklustre as they are. Incap is fine, other class ultimates need a buff (looking at you templars xD)I've rarely seen anyone other than a stamblade use DBoS. I like your suggestions to soul harvest but 15% decrease might be a bit to much there
Sorry I meant stamblade, not nightblades in general. DBoS wouldn't make sense on a magBlade since they don't have strong PvP AoE. It makes sense on a Magplar if you wan't to drop a field of potatos, but thats more about synergy than individual ultimate balance.
I agree that 15% maybe a bit too much, maybe more along the lines of 8%. Bias of a melee magblade *Note-I don't main mag blade, I literally play all classes somewhat equally but I "main" sorc (mag and stam).So let me get this straight. You want a cheap high dmg spammable with a "viper on steroids" attached to it. And you also want a high dmg ult, that is so cheap to the point where u can use it every other rotation, applies major defile, gives you a 20% dmg buff, gives ult, gives you a speed buff and snare immunity for 5 seconds which means you will be prety much immune to snares all the time. And this is not overpowered according to you.
Wanna double the dmg of spectral bow too? Or maybe impale having execute dmg from 50% hp?
So do you think about what you read? Or do you simply nitpick points and pull them out of context to promote your own bias?
Hrmmm...a viper on steroids? Grab a napkin:
Viper-6400 tooltip
Surprise Attack-10,000 tooltip
Light attack(2h)-6000 tooltip (rounded up from UESP value of 5 pc Hunding, 2 selene, 3 agility)
______________________
Total Damage-22,400
After Battle Spirit-11,200
w/o viper-8000
"viper on steroids"-3,000
Concealed weapon-10,000
Light Attack (DW)/(Fire Destro)-1.5k/6k (same as 2h, but with julianos/agility/grothdar)
______________________
Total Damage-14,500/19,000
After Battle Spirit-7,250/9,500
As you can see, the whole point of the "viper of steroids" is to make up for the lack of LA weave damage that melee magblades tend to lose out on. On top of that, melee magblades need to be in melee range which often requires dodge rolling, especially vs a magplar/magdk which means they need to invest more into stamina losing out on something else, usually damage. So realistically, the concealed weapon tooltip should be somewhat lower than surprise attack. ON TOP of that the "viper on steroids" would only proc after the initial weave, meaning even without viper, a stamblade is still more likely to output more damage.
The combination does output more damage with a fire staff, but again, it requires melee combat which a mag blade would have to build for (i.e. less damage=lower tooltips) and it removes the benefit of ranged combat from using a destro staff. Destro light attacks also tend to have lower damage than 2h because they are meant to be used from range. Check UESP with a blank build. It's around 127 for a fire destro vs 170 for a 2H
In regards to the ultimate, I agree that the snare immunity could be over the top. It definitely wouldn't be 100% uptime. The snare immunity could be reduced to 2.5 seconds, but then I really see no point in slotting Soul Harvest over Incap if that were the case.
And LOL at the QQ for the movement speed. It's literally build into the magblade kit regardless, it's just on a different skill now.
Honestly, listing the effects of an ability is a poor argument. You need to give it context. Take Frags for example. It used to be really strong in the magsorc rotation, but do you really think a stamplar or stamblade would use it over their spammable (assuming frag scaled off stam/WD)? Most likely no because it doesn't work with the kit. It's reasonable to overload certain skills if it suits the class identity. I suggested an ultimate that really does nothing besides give the class more breathing room in a MELEE combat situation, which puts the class at an automatic disadvantage as building tanky does not offer the same benefits for magblades as it does for magDKs/magplars.
Ron_Burgundy_79 wrote: »Ron_Burgundy_79 wrote: »It's a true statement.
Believing in Santa with all my might won't make him anymore real.
I basically copied the tool tip from wiki, which is a true statement. Then I essentially said show me a better ultimate. Never said anything false, but keep doing your thing bud.
lol if you want to argue semantics go take a writing class. My whole point was that different ultimates are still perfectly viable and competitive under different situations. It's obvious what you were trying to imply. But go ahead, live in denial. Maybe Santa will nerf Incap for you if you're a true Belieber.
so you haven't met a stamsorc, stamwarden and stamplar yet?Ron_Burgundy_79 wrote: »I mean incap provides a 20% self buff to damage, major defile, and cc's all while doing solid damage. If there are better ultimates, I'd like to see them.
If this was a true statement, then why would a night blade even bother equipping another ultimate let alone use it. Plenty of night blades backbar Dawnbreaker of Smiting and use it situationally. "Situationally" is the key word there.
Just because something is the best doesn't make it OP. The fact that most builds will slot DBoS over a class ultimate is much more telling than the fact that majority of stamblades slot incap.
On topic, Soul Harvest could use a lower cost to start off. I don't think an ultimate cost of 50 is overpowered.
As for secondary effects, move the 25% movement speed from concealed weapon onto it and have it grant snare immunity for 5 seconds after use. This would contrast nicely with incap. One provides offensive utility while the other provides defensive utility. When I play my magblade I seriously consider using a 2h just for momentum, so I'm sure other mag blades will appreciate the snare removal.
Then for concealed weapon, reduce the cost by about 15% and have it either, increase the effectiveness of weapon enchantments by 50% or place a debuff on the enemy that is consumed on LA/HA and deals ~3k magic damage.
I've rarely seen anyone other than a stamblade use DBoS. I like your suggestions to soul harvest but 15% decrease might be a bit to much there
99% of the People using DboS are part of those specs and then there are .8% stamnbs and .2% magsorcs who want their old DboS back
Well, that "2nd ult" only really lands against pugs though
Well, that "2nd ult" only really lands against pugs though
If you do not land your relentless you´re:
a) magica (because proccing the bow has a soundeffect the enemy can hear - for stamina it does not) and on top of that also has a more audible soundeffect (again based on the target) when fired aswell
b) too predictable in using it
After your first or 2nd will procc you usually know if your opponent prefers to dodge or block them which gives you the opportunity to adjust playstyle for that. You simply halt the procc 2 dodges or bash on their block - either way you´re trading very favorably as they won´t be able to keep up their counter pattern 3 or 4 proccs in.
I rarely miss my will proccs except against stamblades where it´s more often than not running out as those tend to dodge/cloak too much - this won´t be a problem anymore next patch as it won´t run out anymore. Win.
so you haven't met a stamsorc, stamwarden and stamplar yet?Ron_Burgundy_79 wrote: »I mean incap provides a 20% self buff to damage, major defile, and cc's all while doing solid damage. If there are better ultimates, I'd like to see them.
If this was a true statement, then why would a night blade even bother equipping another ultimate let alone use it. Plenty of night blades backbar Dawnbreaker of Smiting and use it situationally. "Situationally" is the key word there.
Just because something is the best doesn't make it OP. The fact that most builds will slot DBoS over a class ultimate is much more telling than the fact that majority of stamblades slot incap.
On topic, Soul Harvest could use a lower cost to start off. I don't think an ultimate cost of 50 is overpowered.
As for secondary effects, move the 25% movement speed from concealed weapon onto it and have it grant snare immunity for 5 seconds after use. This would contrast nicely with incap. One provides offensive utility while the other provides defensive utility. When I play my magblade I seriously consider using a 2h just for momentum, so I'm sure other mag blades will appreciate the snare removal.
Then for concealed weapon, reduce the cost by about 15% and have it either, increase the effectiveness of weapon enchantments by 50% or place a debuff on the enemy that is consumed on LA/HA and deals ~3k magic damage.
I've rarely seen anyone other than a stamblade use DBoS. I like your suggestions to soul harvest but 15% decrease might be a bit to much there
99% of the People using DboS are part of those specs and then there are .8% stamnbs and .2% magsorcs who want their old DboS back
We are talking about nightblade here
Well, that "2nd ult" only really lands against pugs though
If you do not land your relentless you´re:
a) magica (because proccing the bow has a soundeffect the enemy can hear - for stamina it does not) and on top of that also has a more audible soundeffect (again based on the target) when fired aswell
b) too predictable in using it
After your first or 2nd will procc you usually know if your opponent prefers to dodge or block them which gives you the opportunity to adjust playstyle for that. You simply halt the procc 2 dodges or bash on their block - either way you´re trading very favorably as they won´t be able to keep up their counter pattern 3 or 4 proccs in.
I rarely miss my will proccs except against stamblades where it´s more often than not running out as those tend to dodge/cloak too much - this won´t be a problem anymore next patch as it won´t run out anymore. Win.
I was referring to the Incap->Relentless (in that specific order) combo.
Any competent medium armor build will just CC Break, Vigor+dodge roll before the Relentless lands and basically reset the fight.
Other builds have ample time to shield/block before the proc lands.
I'm not saying the proc is bad or hard to land - just that particular combo.
Well, that "2nd ult" only really lands against pugs though
If you do not land your relentless you´re:
a) magica (because proccing the bow has a soundeffect the enemy can hear - for stamina it does not) and on top of that also has a more audible soundeffect (again based on the target) when fired aswell
b) too predictable in using it
After your first or 2nd will procc you usually know if your opponent prefers to dodge or block them which gives you the opportunity to adjust playstyle for that. You simply halt the procc 2 dodges or bash on their block - either way you´re trading very favorably as they won´t be able to keep up their counter pattern 3 or 4 proccs in.
I rarely miss my will proccs except against stamblades where it´s more often than not running out as those tend to dodge/cloak too much - this won´t be a problem anymore next patch as it won´t run out anymore. Win.
I was referring to the Incap->Relentless (in that specific order) combo.
Any competent medium armor build will just CC Break, Vigor+dodge roll before the Relentless lands and basically reset the fight.
Other builds have ample time to shield/block before the proc lands.
I'm not saying the proc is bad or hard to land - just that particular combo.
Well, that "2nd ult" only really lands against pugs though
If you do not land your relentless you´re:
a) magica (because proccing the bow has a soundeffect the enemy can hear - for stamina it does not) and on top of that also has a more audible soundeffect (again based on the target) when fired aswell
b) too predictable in using it
After your first or 2nd will procc you usually know if your opponent prefers to dodge or block them which gives you the opportunity to adjust playstyle for that. You simply halt the procc 2 dodges or bash on their block - either way you´re trading very favorably as they won´t be able to keep up their counter pattern 3 or 4 proccs in.
I rarely miss my will proccs except against stamblades where it´s more often than not running out as those tend to dodge/cloak too much - this won´t be a problem anymore next patch as it won´t run out anymore. Win.
I was referring to the Incap->Relentless (in that specific order) combo.
Any competent medium armor build will just CC Break, Vigor+dodge roll before the Relentless lands and basically reset the fight.
Other builds have ample time to shield/block before the proc lands.
I'm not saying the proc is bad or hard to land - just that particular combo.
It´s still kinda hard to break + dodge in time. I´m hitting even medium armor builds if i manage to stun them in melee range and i stand on top of them.
It requires point blank melee though. as soon as there is traveltime involved you´re right - which brings you back to medium armor builds as those tend to be the hardest to stay right on top of.
Well, that "2nd ult" only really lands against pugs though
If you do not land your relentless you´re:
a) magica (because proccing the bow has a soundeffect the enemy can hear - for stamina it does not) and on top of that also has a more audible soundeffect (again based on the target) when fired aswell
b) too predictable in using it
After your first or 2nd will procc you usually know if your opponent prefers to dodge or block them which gives you the opportunity to adjust playstyle for that. You simply halt the procc 2 dodges or bash on their block - either way you´re trading very favorably as they won´t be able to keep up their counter pattern 3 or 4 proccs in.
I rarely miss my will proccs except against stamblades where it´s more often than not running out as those tend to dodge/cloak too much - this won´t be a problem anymore next patch as it won´t run out anymore. Win.
I was referring to the Incap->Relentless (in that specific order) combo.
Any competent medium armor build will just CC Break, Vigor+dodge roll before the Relentless lands and basically reset the fight.
Other builds have ample time to shield/block before the proc lands.
I'm not saying the proc is bad or hard to land - just that particular combo.
I dont play magNB, but what if they made Soul Harvest ranged? Would that be a big enough buff to consider using it?
Well, that "2nd ult" only really lands against pugs though
If you do not land your relentless you´re:
a) magica (because proccing the bow has a soundeffect the enemy can hear - for stamina it does not) and on top of that also has a more audible soundeffect (again based on the target) when fired aswell
b) too predictable in using it
After your first or 2nd will procc you usually know if your opponent prefers to dodge or block them which gives you the opportunity to adjust playstyle for that. You simply halt the procc 2 dodges or bash on their block - either way you´re trading very favorably as they won´t be able to keep up their counter pattern 3 or 4 proccs in.
I rarely miss my will proccs except against stamblades where it´s more often than not running out as those tend to dodge/cloak too much - this won´t be a problem anymore next patch as it won´t run out anymore. Win.
I was referring to the Incap->Relentless (in that specific order) combo.
Any competent medium armor build will just CC Break, Vigor+dodge roll before the Relentless lands and basically reset the fight.
Other builds have ample time to shield/block before the proc lands.
I'm not saying the proc is bad or hard to land - just that particular combo.
Can you actually fit in a vigor between the cc break and rolldodge between incap and merciless combos? I didn't know that lol, been so long since I had a decent pingI dont play magNB, but what if they made Soul Harvest ranged? Would that be a big enough buff to consider using it?
That would be a crazy buff hahaha, would even go as far as to call it op.
NightbladeMechanics wrote: »Well, that "2nd ult" only really lands against pugs though
If you do not land your relentless you´re:
a) magica (because proccing the bow has a soundeffect the enemy can hear - for stamina it does not) and on top of that also has a more audible soundeffect (again based on the target) when fired aswell
b) too predictable in using it
After your first or 2nd will procc you usually know if your opponent prefers to dodge or block them which gives you the opportunity to adjust playstyle for that. You simply halt the procc 2 dodges or bash on their block - either way you´re trading very favorably as they won´t be able to keep up their counter pattern 3 or 4 proccs in.
I rarely miss my will proccs except against stamblades where it´s more often than not running out as those tend to dodge/cloak too much - this won´t be a problem anymore next patch as it won´t run out anymore. Win.
I was referring to the Incap->Relentless (in that specific order) combo.
Any competent medium armor build will just CC Break, Vigor+dodge roll before the Relentless lands and basically reset the fight.
Other builds have ample time to shield/block before the proc lands.
I'm not saying the proc is bad or hard to land - just that particular combo.
Can you actually fit in a vigor between the cc break and rolldodge between incap and merciless combos? I didn't know that lol, been so long since I had a decent pingI dont play magNB, but what if they made Soul Harvest ranged? Would that be a big enough buff to consider using it?
That would be a crazy buff hahaha, would even go as far as to call it op.
You can only fit a vigor in when they cc you and fire from range, so not Incap > will combos.
Ranged soul harvest would be op unless you added a delay to it or some other negative factor. What if casting harvest placed a shade next to the target enemy up to 28 meters away which attacked the enemy after a .5s delay, and then you could reactivate the ult for a while to port to that shade, just like shadow image? The tricks you could pull with something like that.. lol
Could even make it ground targeted, and attack the first enemy to come within melee range of it after being placed. Fearing or flame reaching people into range of it would be cool, or it could be placed in chokes or escape routes.
Well, that "2nd ult" only really lands against pugs though
If you do not land your relentless you´re:
a) magica (because proccing the bow has a soundeffect the enemy can hear - for stamina it does not) and on top of that also has a more audible soundeffect (again based on the target) when fired aswell
b) too predictable in using it
After your first or 2nd will procc you usually know if your opponent prefers to dodge or block them which gives you the opportunity to adjust playstyle for that. You simply halt the procc 2 dodges or bash on their block - either way you´re trading very favorably as they won´t be able to keep up their counter pattern 3 or 4 proccs in.
I rarely miss my will proccs except against stamblades where it´s more often than not running out as those tend to dodge/cloak too much - this won´t be a problem anymore next patch as it won´t run out anymore. Win.
I was referring to the Incap->Relentless (in that specific order) combo.
Any competent medium armor build will just CC Break, Vigor+dodge roll before the Relentless lands and basically reset the fight.
Other builds have ample time to shield/block before the proc lands.
I'm not saying the proc is bad or hard to land - just that particular combo.
If there would be those builds
The only class I'm having issues killing with incap + will is ironically stamnb. As @Derra said the others are easy to outplay when you can adapt to their playstyle.
Just a small side note:
My Deaths in PvP yesterday: 8
Deaths due to incap CC + follow-up: 6
Other deaths: 2 (shieldbreaker & AD Zerglings)
Atleast 60% of my deaths everyday are due to incap. It's not that I'm not being hit by Dawnbreakers, Leaps with their CC but the classes using it still can't kill me afterwards.
On Tuesday I played my stamnb with DBoS and then switched to Incap. My killing potential increased by atleast 40% and 1vX, 1v1 were much easier to win with incap.
1. It's ridiculous how many fights I win on stamnb with the bugged CC of Incap. About 3/5 Times i use it against an enemy in Cyrodiil and sometimes in Bergama they can't CC break and are doomed to die. But this is bug related.
2. When switching between Incap and Soul Harvest on my Magnb i noticed how many fights i can easily win due to the stun and that i often don't have to outplay my, enemies most of the time Incap into will is a guaranteed kill. With soul harvest you're better advised to go Soul Harvest-Fear-Will you can still kill people with ease but you see that the good players can start to counter your burst combo and fights are much more balanced and skill based than with incap.
My statement remains Soul Harvest is the morph that Incap should be balanced around not vice versa.
Meaning: Remove the CC of incap and add minor breach
to soul Harvest and minor fracture to Incap.
NightbladeMechanics wrote: »Well, that "2nd ult" only really lands against pugs though
If you do not land your relentless you´re:
a) magica (because proccing the bow has a soundeffect the enemy can hear - for stamina it does not) and on top of that also has a more audible soundeffect (again based on the target) when fired aswell
b) too predictable in using it
After your first or 2nd will procc you usually know if your opponent prefers to dodge or block them which gives you the opportunity to adjust playstyle for that. You simply halt the procc 2 dodges or bash on their block - either way you´re trading very favorably as they won´t be able to keep up their counter pattern 3 or 4 proccs in.
I rarely miss my will proccs except against stamblades where it´s more often than not running out as those tend to dodge/cloak too much - this won´t be a problem anymore next patch as it won´t run out anymore. Win.
I was referring to the Incap->Relentless (in that specific order) combo.
Any competent medium armor build will just CC Break, Vigor+dodge roll before the Relentless lands and basically reset the fight.
Other builds have ample time to shield/block before the proc lands.
I'm not saying the proc is bad or hard to land - just that particular combo.
Can you actually fit in a vigor between the cc break and rolldodge between incap and merciless combos? I didn't know that lol, been so long since I had a decent pingI dont play magNB, but what if they made Soul Harvest ranged? Would that be a big enough buff to consider using it?
That would be a crazy buff hahaha, would even go as far as to call it op.
You can only fit a vigor in when they cc you and fire from range, so not Incap > will combos.
ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Short answer is DKs likely won't be seeing a ton of changes before we go live; this class is still quite powerful (as it should be being a tank), even after some of the adjustments we've made to other classes and abilities.
NightbladeMechanics wrote: »Well, that "2nd ult" only really lands against pugs though
If you do not land your relentless you´re:
a) magica (because proccing the bow has a soundeffect the enemy can hear - for stamina it does not) and on top of that also has a more audible soundeffect (again based on the target) when fired aswell
b) too predictable in using it
After your first or 2nd will procc you usually know if your opponent prefers to dodge or block them which gives you the opportunity to adjust playstyle for that. You simply halt the procc 2 dodges or bash on their block - either way you´re trading very favorably as they won´t be able to keep up their counter pattern 3 or 4 proccs in.
I rarely miss my will proccs except against stamblades where it´s more often than not running out as those tend to dodge/cloak too much - this won´t be a problem anymore next patch as it won´t run out anymore. Win.
I was referring to the Incap->Relentless (in that specific order) combo.
Any competent medium armor build will just CC Break, Vigor+dodge roll before the Relentless lands and basically reset the fight.
Other builds have ample time to shield/block before the proc lands.
I'm not saying the proc is bad or hard to land - just that particular combo.
Can you actually fit in a vigor between the cc break and rolldodge between incap and merciless combos? I didn't know that lol, been so long since I had a decent pingI dont play magNB, but what if they made Soul Harvest ranged? Would that be a big enough buff to consider using it?
That would be a crazy buff hahaha, would even go as far as to call it op.
You can only fit a vigor in when they cc you and fire from range, so not Incap > will combos.
Ranged soul harvest would be op unless you added a delay to it or some other negative factor. What if casting harvest placed a shade next to the target enemy up to 28 meters away which attacked the enemy after a .5s delay, and then you could reactivate the ult for a while to port to that shade, just like shadow image? The tricks you could pull with something like that.. lol
Could even make it ground targeted, and attack the first enemy to come within melee range of it after being placed. Fearing or flame reaching people into range of it would be cool, or it could be placed in chokes or escape routes.
That bs you suggested can proc every second. Its unavoidable dmg every second, in other words "viper on steroids".
Frag is not a spammable. They would absolutely use it in combination with their spammables. Sorcs dont use frag as a spammable either. In fact, frags would probably be stronger on other classes. So wtf are you even talking about.
Honestly listing the effects of an ability is not a poor argument. Especially when that ability is an ultimate so cheap to the point of almost being used as a spammable and has a million different effects attached to it.
Ron_Burgundy_79 wrote: »
I implied that it's the best ultimate in the game. Let me rephrase. It's the best single target ultimate in the game. Its arguably the best 1vX ultimate in the game. I don't PVE, but aren't stamblades running incap to proc master architect, allowing for very high PVE DPS numbers? Those points make it arguably the best ultimate in the game.
It provides a major buff and 1 major debuff. It provides solid damage while cc'ing. All this while only costs 75 ultimate.
If you want to complain about something, complain about cloak and shades not working properly. Don't complain about an obviously overtuned ultimate.
In the wise words of T.O., kick rocks.
Edit: War machine not master architect. Like I said, I don't PVE.
My statement remains Soul Harvest is the morph that Incap should be balanced around not vice versa.
Meaning: Remove the CC of incap and add minor breach
to soul Harvest and minor fracture to Incap.
Ron_Burgundy_79 wrote: »It's a true statement.
Believing in Santa with all my might won't make him anymore real.
Even if I could slot Incap on my stamsorc, I'd still use DBoS for the DoT in order to proc Implosion.
On my stamDK, sure it's more of a tossup, but I'd still prefer Leap or DBoS in open world since I can't reset fights in the way stamSorcs or Stamblades can.
In a 1v1, Incap is the strongest ultimate, but the assassin class should have an edge in 1v1 regardless. Again, the word to keep in mind is "situationally". Incap should be the benchmark class ultimate. DBoS, Incap, Northern Storm, Soul Assault (live) and to a lesser extent; Leap, Meteor, Soul Tether, Destro ultimate, Ballista etc, can completely change the flow of a fight if used correctly. This is what an ultimate should be doing. Majority of Ultimates are simply lacklustre as they are. Incap is fine, other class ultimates need a buff (looking at you templars xD)I've rarely seen anyone other than a stamblade use DBoS. I like your suggestions to soul harvest but 15% decrease might be a bit to much there
Sorry I meant stamblade, not nightblades in general. DBoS wouldn't make sense on a magBlade since they don't have strong PvP AoE. It makes sense on a Magplar if you wan't to drop a field of potatos, but thats more about synergy than individual ultimate balance.
I agree that 15% maybe a bit too much, maybe more along the lines of 8%. Bias of a melee magblade *Note-I don't main mag blade, I literally play all classes somewhat equally but I "main" sorc (mag and stam).So let me get this straight. You want a cheap high dmg spammable with a "viper on steroids" attached to it. And you also want a high dmg ult, that is so cheap to the point where u can use it every other rotation, applies major defile, gives you a 20% dmg buff, gives ult, gives you a speed buff and snare immunity for 5 seconds which means you will be prety much immune to snares all the time. And this is not overpowered according to you.
Wanna double the dmg of spectral bow too? Or maybe impale having execute dmg from 50% hp?
So do you think about what you read? Or do you simply nitpick points and pull them out of context to promote your own bias?
Hrmmm...a viper on steroids? Grab a napkin:
Viper-6400 tooltip
Surprise Attack-10,000 tooltip
Light attack(2h)-6000 tooltip (rounded up from UESP value of 5 pc Hunding, 2 selene, 3 agility)
______________________
Total Damage-22,400
After Battle Spirit-11,200
w/o viper-8000
"viper on steroids"-3,000
Concealed weapon-10,000
Light Attack (DW)/(Fire Destro)-1.5k/6k (same as 2h, but with julianos/agility/grothdar)
______________________
Total Damage-14,500/19,000
After Battle Spirit-7,250/9,500
As you can see, the whole point of the "viper of steroids" is to make up for the lack of LA weave damage that melee magblades tend to lose out on. On top of that, melee magblades need to be in melee range which often requires dodge rolling, especially vs a magplar/magdk which means they need to invest more into stamina losing out on something else, usually damage. So realistically, the concealed weapon tooltip should be somewhat lower than surprise attack. ON TOP of that the "viper on steroids" would only proc after the initial weave, meaning even without viper, a stamblade is still more likely to output more damage.
The combination does output more damage with a fire staff, but again, it requires melee combat which a mag blade would have to build for (i.e. less damage=lower tooltips) and it removes the benefit of ranged combat from using a destro staff. Destro light attacks also tend to have lower damage than 2h because they are meant to be used from range. Check UESP with a blank build. It's around 127 for a fire destro vs 170 for a 2H
In regards to the ultimate, I agree that the snare immunity could be over the top. It definitely wouldn't be 100% uptime. The snare immunity could be reduced to 2.5 seconds, but then I really see no point in slotting Soul Harvest over Incap if that were the case.
And LOL at the QQ for the movement speed. It's literally build into the magblade kit regardless, it's just on a different skill now.
Honestly, listing the effects of an ability is a poor argument. You need to give it context. Take Frags for example. It used to be really strong in the magsorc rotation, but do you really think a stamplar or stamblade would use it over their spammable (assuming frag scaled off stam/WD)? Most likely no because it doesn't work with the kit. It's reasonable to overload certain skills if it suits the class identity. I suggested an ultimate that really does nothing besides give the class more breathing room in a MELEE combat situation, which puts the class at an automatic disadvantage as building tanky does not offer the same benefits for magblades as it does for magDKs/magplars.
That bs you suggested can proc every second. Its unavoidable dmg every second, in other words "viper on steroids".
Frag is not a spammable. They would absolutely use it in combination with their spammables. Sorcs dont use frag as a spammable either. In fact, frags would probably be stronger on other classes. So wtf are you even talking about.
Honestly listing the effects of an ability is not a poor argument. Especially when that ability is an ultimate so cheap to the point of almost being used as a spammable and has a million different effects attached to it.
NightbladeMechanics wrote: »Well, that "2nd ult" only really lands against pugs though
If you do not land your relentless you´re:
a) magica (because proccing the bow has a soundeffect the enemy can hear - for stamina it does not) and on top of that also has a more audible soundeffect (again based on the target) when fired aswell
b) too predictable in using it
After your first or 2nd will procc you usually know if your opponent prefers to dodge or block them which gives you the opportunity to adjust playstyle for that. You simply halt the procc 2 dodges or bash on their block - either way you´re trading very favorably as they won´t be able to keep up their counter pattern 3 or 4 proccs in.
I rarely miss my will proccs except against stamblades where it´s more often than not running out as those tend to dodge/cloak too much - this won´t be a problem anymore next patch as it won´t run out anymore. Win.
I was referring to the Incap->Relentless (in that specific order) combo.
Any competent medium armor build will just CC Break, Vigor+dodge roll before the Relentless lands and basically reset the fight.
Other builds have ample time to shield/block before the proc lands.
I'm not saying the proc is bad or hard to land - just that particular combo.
Can you actually fit in a vigor between the cc break and rolldodge between incap and merciless combos? I didn't know that lol, been so long since I had a decent pingI dont play magNB, but what if they made Soul Harvest ranged? Would that be a big enough buff to consider using it?
That would be a crazy buff hahaha, would even go as far as to call it op.
You can only fit a vigor in when they cc you and fire from range, so not Incap > will combos.
Ranged soul harvest would be op unless you added a delay to it or some other negative factor. What if casting harvest placed a shade next to the target enemy up to 28 meters away which attacked the enemy after a .5s delay, and then you could reactivate the ult for a while to port to that shade, just like shadow image? The tricks you could pull with something like that.. lol
Could even make it ground targeted, and attack the first enemy to come within melee range of it after being placed. Fearing or flame reaching people into range of it would be cool, or it could be placed in chokes or escape routes.
@ZOS_Wrobel do it for all the RPers that just joined the game, they will feel like they are awesome
Give Soul Harvest a small 5m splash-damage AoE so that nearby targets take 25-50% of the damage done to the initial target and the ability can stay undodgeable.
That bs you suggested can proc every second. Its unavoidable dmg every second, in other words "viper on steroids".
Frag is not a spammable. They would absolutely use it in combination with their spammables. Sorcs dont use frag as a spammable either. In fact, frags would probably be stronger on other classes. So wtf are you even talking about.
Honestly listing the effects of an ability is not a poor argument. Especially when that ability is an ultimate so cheap to the point of almost being used as a spammable and has a million different effects attached to it.
Again, did you even read the post? Or do you just pull points out of context to satisfy your own bias? Mathematically, my suggestion simply makes weaving on a melee magblade (dual wield) deal similar damage to a stam character or more if they use a destro staff but sacrifice the range advantage its supposed to give.
Let me ask you this, do you think that a skill that would allow melee light attack weaves from a magicka character to deal the same damage as a melee light attack from a stamina character or similar (slightly less) damage as a magicka character weaving destro light attacks is OP?
And frag is technically the sorcs spammable, as it is the only skill that can be spammed. (Fury counts as an execute). Dizzy Swing is considered the spammable for 2H and it's channeled too. The point is that Incap fits the stamblade kit and is considered "overpowered" only because other classes don't have offensive ultimates that are as complimentary. Closest thing is Leap but DKs are so poorly balanced right now that it's not fair to make a comparison to them.