The Gold Road Chapter – which includes the Scribing system – and Update 42 is now available to test on the PTS! You can read the latest patch notes here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/656454/
Maintenance for the week of April 29:
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – April 29
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – April 29
We will be performing maintenance for patch 10.0.2 on the PTS on Monday at 8:00AM EDT (12:00 UTC).
Soul Harvest will need an additional effect in order to compete with Incap following this bug fix
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NyassaV✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭NightbladeMechanics wrote: »Ron_Burgundy_79 wrote: »It's a true statement.
Believing in Santa with all my might won't make him anymore real.
Even if I could slot Incap on my stamsorc, I'd still use DBoS for the DoT in order to proc Implosion.
On my stamDK, sure it's more of a tossup, but I'd still prefer Leap or DBoS in open world since I can't reset fights in the way stamSorcs or Stamblades can.
In a 1v1, Incap is the strongest ultimate, but the assassin class should have an edge in 1v1 regardless. Again, the word to keep in mind is "situationally". Incap should be the benchmark class ultimate. DBoS, Incap, Northern Storm, Soul Assault (live) and to a lesser extent; Leap, Meteor, Soul Tether, Destro ultimate, Ballista etc, can completely change the flow of a fight if used correctly. This is what an ultimate should be doing. Majority of Ultimates are simply lacklustre as they are. Incap is fine, other class ultimates need a buff (looking at you templars xD)I've rarely seen anyone other than a stamblade use DBoS. I like your suggestions to soul harvest but 15% decrease might be a bit to much there
Sorry I meant stamblade, not nightblades in general. DBoS wouldn't make sense on a magBlade since they don't have strong PvP AoE. It makes sense on a Magplar if you wan't to drop a field of potatos, but thats more about synergy than individual ultimate balance.
I agree that 15% maybe a bit too much, maybe more along the lines of 8%. Bias of a melee magblade
*Note-I don't main mag blade, I literally play all classes somewhat equally but I "main" sorc (mag and stam).So let me get this straight. You want a cheap high dmg spammable with a "viper on steroids" attached to it. And you also want a high dmg ult, that is so cheap to the point where u can use it every other rotation, applies major defile, gives you a 20% dmg buff, gives ult, gives you a speed buff and snare immunity for 5 seconds which means you will be prety much immune to snares all the time. And this is not overpowered according to you.
Wanna double the dmg of spectral bow too? Or maybe impale having execute dmg from 50% hp?
So do you think about what you read? Or do you simply nitpick points and pull them out of context to promote your own bias?
Hrmmm...a viper on steroids? Grab a napkin:
Viper-6400 tooltip
Surprise Attack-10,000 tooltip
Light attack(2h)-6000 tooltip (rounded up from UESP value of 5 pc Hunding, 2 selene, 3 agility)
______________________
Total Damage-22,400
After Battle Spirit-11,200
w/o viper-8000
"viper on steroids"-3,000
Concealed weapon-10,000
Light Attack (DW)/(Fire Destro)-1.5k/6k (same as 2h, but with julianos/agility/grothdar)
______________________
Total Damage-14,500/19,000
After Battle Spirit-7,250/9,500
As you can see, the whole point of the "viper of steroids" is to make up for the lack of LA weave damage that melee magblades tend to lose out on. On top of that, melee magblades need to be in melee range
which often requires dodge rolling, especially vs a magplar/magdk which means they need to invest more into stamina losing out on something else, usually damage. So realistically, the concealed weapon tooltip should be somewhat lower than surprise attack. ON TOP of that the "viper on steroids" would only proc after the initial weave, meaning even without viper, a stamblade is still more likely to output more damage.
The combination does output more damage with a fire staff, but again, it requires melee combat which a mag blade would have to build for (i.e. less damage=lower tooltips) and it removes the benefit of ranged combat from using a destro staff. Destro light attacks also tend to have lower damage than 2h because they are meant to be used from range. Check UESP with a blank build. It's around 127 for a fire destro vs 170 for a 2H
In regards to the ultimate, I agree that the snare immunity could be over the top. It definitely wouldn't be 100% uptime. The snare immunity could be reduced to 2.5 seconds, but then I really see no point in slotting Soul Harvest over Incap if that were the case.
And LOL at the QQ for the movement speed. It's literally build into the magblade kit regardless, it's just on a different skill now.
Honestly, listing the effects of an ability is a poor argument. You need to give it context. Take Frags for example. It used to be really strong in the magsorc rotation, but do you really think a stamplar or stamblade would use it over their spammable (assuming frag scaled off stam/WD)? Most likely no because it doesn't work with the kit. It's reasonable to overload certain skills if it suits the class identity. I suggested an ultimate that really does nothing besides give the class more breathing room in a MELEE combat situation, which puts the class at an automatic disadvantage as building tanky does not offer the same benefits for magblades as it does for magDKs/magplars.
That bs you suggested can proc every second. Its unavoidable dmg every second, in other words "viper on steroids".
Frag is not a spammable. They would absolutely use it in combination with their spammables. Sorcs dont use frag as a spammable either. In fact, frags would probably be stronger on other classes. So wtf are you even talking about.
Honestly listing the effects of an ability is not a poor argument. Especially when that ability is an ultimate so cheap to the point of almost being used as a spammable and has a million different effects attached to it.
-Frags is more of a spammable than Soul Harvest
-Overload is cheaper than Soul Harvest, is ranged, and literally is a spammable (A spammable is something that can be spammed provided you have enough resources for it. )
Overload is the easiest counterable ult in the entire game and last time i checked it doesnt apply major defile, gives a dmg buff, snare immunity, speed buff and more ult. Whats next? Ask for soul harvest to store ult so you can spam it? Will you be happy then?
You can only counterplay so many 20k light attacks
It's certainly more spammable than Soul Harvest.
That said, it's seldom used offensively not because it's weak or easily countered, but because shifting in and out of Overload is clunky.
Anyways, you can list the positives of anything and make it sound op. These two abilities are too different to be directly compared in this manner.
But im not the one who started bringing up sorc abilities. I was just simply stating that the suggestions someone made regarding buffs to soul harvest were completely nuts. I didnt make it sound OP. It is OP. He literally said to reduce the cost to 50, give snare immunity and also give it the passive speed buff of concealed weapon so he can also suggest some stupid buffs for concealed weapon as well like reducing the cost and give it a viper proc on every light attack after concealed.
Actually, I'm a Mag sorc main, if you read my post you'd know that.
Yes melee magblades exist but they are not as competitive as a traditional destro. Otherwise, why are they (good magblades) so rare amongst a class that is rare in PvP to begin with (outside bomber specs).
And how is my suggestion OP? It literally increases the damage of a magicka characters melee light attack to the same level as a stamina characters light attack. Let's change my suggestion to the ability making melee light attacks scale off spell damage and magicka instead. Is that op?
And Clench/shock etc are Destro spammables, not sorc spammables. The whole point of bringing up frags was that it works well in a sorc kit which is all back-loaded damage, drawing a parallel between incap and night blade which are built around front-loaded damage.
I can drop +3 people at once with a DBoS on my stamsorc. If I ran Incap it wouldn't be the same. Incap compliments the night blade kit whereas other class ultimates do not compliment their other class abilities.
Again, you really don't comprehend anything that disproves your bias. Instead of simply stating that a reduction to 50 ultimate alone would be enough to balance Soul Harvest, or that a 2.5 second snare immunity at 75 ultimate cost would be more balanced you simply QQ about a pseudo viper that, again, MATHEMATICALLY puts melee mageblade light attacks at the same level as their stam counterparts."mathematically this or that".
Magicka light dual wield attack on a blank/naked character with 64 Magicka attribute=111Mathematically, this ^ is inferior to that v
Stamina light dual wield attack on a blank/naked character with 64 Stamina attribute=210
DW on magicka builds trade the dmg from weaving for more spell dmg and an extra set piece. In general thats the trade off u are making right now. Its not like you are inherently at a disadvantage just because you use DW.
Suggesting to make all weapon LA/HA scaling off max stats is a completely different discussion. That wasnt ur suggestion. Your suggestion was 1.5k (PVP) unbuffed unavoidable dmg proc on every single light attack as long as u use concealed. They are two entirely different suggestions that doesnt affect the game in the same way obviously. Your suggestion was basically a dmg mega buff to concealed along with a cost reduction. Not to rework how LA/HA are calculated.
Magblade requires good weaving. So it is at a slight disadvantageFlawless Conqueror ~ Grand OverlordShe/Her ~ PC/NA | I record things for fun and for info0 -
Subversus✭✭✭✭✭
✭Joy_Division wrote: »Joy_Division wrote: »Master_Kas wrote: »Incap is another dumbed down ability. It used to stun if you had lower HP than your target meaning when you needed it. Was way more balanced than the mess it is today.
Soul harvest is fine imo. Incap should not have a stun or revert it to the way it was.
If incap loses the stun, then it should be given something to compensate ir more time on damage debuff otherwise why choose incap when soul harvest gives ult on kill? Better yet to have incap stun based on %hp
I'll trade you my empowering sweep for an Incap that doesn't stun.
Why does that matter? No one would use incap over soul harvest if the stun is completely removed without compensation. Sure you lose a bit of damage due to cp, but you get 10 ult on kill passively which more than makes up for it.
Must be nice to have a choice between good ultimates.
Especially 4 different kind of useful ults:
Single target nuke, AoE Nuke, strongest burst heal AoE, best damage mitigation AoE ult attached with the second strongest HoT as synergy
It's ironic that the classes with the already best toolkit want even more sweeties
If I didn't know better I'd think you're calling magblade broken or overpowered? Lmao0 -
pieratsos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Ron_Burgundy_79 wrote: »It's a true statement.
Believing in Santa with all my might won't make him anymore real.
Even if I could slot Incap on my stamsorc, I'd still use DBoS for the DoT in order to proc Implosion.
On my stamDK, sure it's more of a tossup, but I'd still prefer Leap or DBoS in open world since I can't reset fights in the way stamSorcs or Stamblades can.
In a 1v1, Incap is the strongest ultimate, but the assassin class should have an edge in 1v1 regardless. Again, the word to keep in mind is "situationally". Incap should be the benchmark class ultimate. DBoS, Incap, Northern Storm, Soul Assault (live) and to a lesser extent; Leap, Meteor, Soul Tether, Destro ultimate, Ballista etc, can completely change the flow of a fight if used correctly. This is what an ultimate should be doing. Majority of Ultimates are simply lacklustre as they are. Incap is fine, other class ultimates need a buff (looking at you templars xD)I've rarely seen anyone other than a stamblade use DBoS. I like your suggestions to soul harvest but 15% decrease might be a bit to much there
Sorry I meant stamblade, not nightblades in general. DBoS wouldn't make sense on a magBlade since they don't have strong PvP AoE. It makes sense on a Magplar if you wan't to drop a field of potatos, but thats more about synergy than individual ultimate balance.
I agree that 15% maybe a bit too much, maybe more along the lines of 8%. Bias of a melee magblade *Note-I don't main mag blade, I literally play all classes somewhat equally but I "main" sorc (mag and stam).So let me get this straight. You want a cheap high dmg spammable with a "viper on steroids" attached to it. And you also want a high dmg ult, that is so cheap to the point where u can use it every other rotation, applies major defile, gives you a 20% dmg buff, gives ult, gives you a speed buff and snare immunity for 5 seconds which means you will be prety much immune to snares all the time. And this is not overpowered according to you.
Wanna double the dmg of spectral bow too? Or maybe impale having execute dmg from 50% hp?
So do you think about what you read? Or do you simply nitpick points and pull them out of context to promote your own bias?
Hrmmm...a viper on steroids? Grab a napkin:
Viper-6400 tooltip
Surprise Attack-10,000 tooltip
Light attack(2h)-6000 tooltip (rounded up from UESP value of 5 pc Hunding, 2 selene, 3 agility)
______________________
Total Damage-22,400
After Battle Spirit-11,200
w/o viper-8000
"viper on steroids"-3,000
Concealed weapon-10,000
Light Attack (DW)/(Fire Destro)-1.5k/6k (same as 2h, but with julianos/agility/grothdar)
______________________
Total Damage-14,500/19,000
After Battle Spirit-7,250/9,500
As you can see, the whole point of the "viper of steroids" is to make up for the lack of LA weave damage that melee magblades tend to lose out on. On top of that, melee magblades need to be in melee range which often requires dodge rolling, especially vs a magplar/magdk which means they need to invest more into stamina losing out on something else, usually damage. So realistically, the concealed weapon tooltip should be somewhat lower than surprise attack. ON TOP of that the "viper on steroids" would only proc after the initial weave, meaning even without viper, a stamblade is still more likely to output more damage.
The combination does output more damage with a fire staff, but again, it requires melee combat which a mag blade would have to build for (i.e. less damage=lower tooltips) and it removes the benefit of ranged combat from using a destro staff. Destro light attacks also tend to have lower damage than 2h because they are meant to be used from range. Check UESP with a blank build. It's around 127 for a fire destro vs 170 for a 2H
In regards to the ultimate, I agree that the snare immunity could be over the top. It definitely wouldn't be 100% uptime. The snare immunity could be reduced to 2.5 seconds, but then I really see no point in slotting Soul Harvest over Incap if that were the case.
And LOL at the QQ for the movement speed. It's literally build into the magblade kit regardless, it's just on a different skill now.
Honestly, listing the effects of an ability is a poor argument. You need to give it context. Take Frags for example. It used to be really strong in the magsorc rotation, but do you really think a stamplar or stamblade would use it over their spammable (assuming frag scaled off stam/WD)? Most likely no because it doesn't work with the kit. It's reasonable to overload certain skills if it suits the class identity. I suggested an ultimate that really does nothing besides give the class more breathing room in a MELEE combat situation, which puts the class at an automatic disadvantage as building tanky does not offer the same benefits for magblades as it does for magDKs/magplars.
That bs you suggested can proc every second. Its unavoidable dmg every second, in other words "viper on steroids".
Frag is not a spammable. They would absolutely use it in combination with their spammables. Sorcs dont use frag as a spammable either. In fact, frags would probably be stronger on other classes. So wtf are you even talking about.
Honestly listing the effects of an ability is not a poor argument. Especially when that ability is an ultimate so cheap to the point of almost being used as a spammable and has a million different effects attached to it.
-Frags is more of a spammable than Soul Harvest
-Overload is cheaper than Soul Harvest, is ranged, and literally is a spammable (A spammable is something that can be spammed provided you have enough resources for it. )
Overload is the easiest counterable ult in the entire game and last time i checked it doesnt apply major defile, gives a dmg buff, snare immunity, speed buff and more ult. Whats next? Ask for soul harvest to store ult so you can spam it? Will you be happy then?
And about frags. Do you actually believe that other classes wouldnt slot frag because they have other spammables? Like seriously?
No offense, but from reading what you write it doesn't really seem like you play either magsorc or magblade.
Again, no offense.
Non taken.
I mean no offense either, but from reading ur post it seems like you are either blind or cant comprehend a simple text.
On topic, Soul Harvest could use a lower cost to start off. I don't think an ultimate cost of 50 is overpowered.
As for secondary effects, move the 25% movement speed from concealed weapon onto it and have it grant snare immunity for 5 seconds after use. This would contrast nicely with incap. One provides offensive utility while the other provides defensive utility. When I play my magblade I seriously consider using a 2h just for momentum, so I'm sure other mag blades will appreciate the snare removal.
Then for concealed weapon, reduce the cost by about 15% and have it either, increase the effectiveness of weapon enchantments by 50% or place a debuff on the enemy that is consumed on LA/HA and deals ~3k magic damage.Take Frags for example. It used to be really strong in the magsorc rotation, but do you really think a stamplar or stamblade would use it over their spammable (assuming frag scaled off stam/WD)?
And frag is technically the sorcs spammable, as it is the only skill that can be spammed. (Fury counts as an execute). Dizzy Swing is considered the spammable for 2H and it's channeled too.
Maybe you should read next time before jumping to conclusions and doubting other people. Even if you didnt catch the conversation from the beginning i literally mentioned those in two different posts before your post.
Again, no offense
I haven't read a single thing you posted past your first two or three posts in here, so reading comprehension can't really help me here. My opinion is already formed and I could care less about the "nightblade op pls nerf" ***.
But I never said NB OP pls nerf. So wtf are you even talking about. Dunno maybe you are blind i guess. Or maybe you are just one of those getting triggered with anyone that dares to say anything about ur class that doesnt involve the word "buff" in it.Edited by pieratsos on February 9, 2018 7:02PM0 -
BohnT✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Joy_Division wrote: »Joy_Division wrote: »Master_Kas wrote: »Incap is another dumbed down ability. It used to stun if you had lower HP than your target meaning when you needed it. Was way more balanced than the mess it is today.
Soul harvest is fine imo. Incap should not have a stun or revert it to the way it was.
If incap loses the stun, then it should be given something to compensate ir more time on damage debuff otherwise why choose incap when soul harvest gives ult on kill? Better yet to have incap stun based on %hp
I'll trade you my empowering sweep for an Incap that doesn't stun.
Why does that matter? No one would use incap over soul harvest if the stun is completely removed without compensation. Sure you lose a bit of damage due to cp, but you get 10 ult on kill passively which more than makes up for it.
Must be nice to have a choice between good ultimates.
Especially 4 different kind of useful ults:
Single target nuke, AoE Nuke, strongest burst heal AoE, best damage mitigation AoE ult attached with the second strongest HoT as synergy
It's ironic that the classes with the already best toolkit want even more sweeties
If I didn't know better I'd think you're calling magblade broken or overpowered? Lmao
Nah just saying that the nb toolkit has everything you could ask for.
As i said Magnb is the best balanced class in the game imo2 -
pieratsos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭NightbladeMechanics wrote: »Ron_Burgundy_79 wrote: »It's a true statement.
Believing in Santa with all my might won't make him anymore real.
Even if I could slot Incap on my stamsorc, I'd still use DBoS for the DoT in order to proc Implosion.
On my stamDK, sure it's more of a tossup, but I'd still prefer Leap or DBoS in open world since I can't reset fights in the way stamSorcs or Stamblades can.
In a 1v1, Incap is the strongest ultimate, but the assassin class should have an edge in 1v1 regardless. Again, the word to keep in mind is "situationally". Incap should be the benchmark class ultimate. DBoS, Incap, Northern Storm, Soul Assault (live) and to a lesser extent; Leap, Meteor, Soul Tether, Destro ultimate, Ballista etc, can completely change the flow of a fight if used correctly. This is what an ultimate should be doing. Majority of Ultimates are simply lacklustre as they are. Incap is fine, other class ultimates need a buff (looking at you templars xD)I've rarely seen anyone other than a stamblade use DBoS. I like your suggestions to soul harvest but 15% decrease might be a bit to much there
Sorry I meant stamblade, not nightblades in general. DBoS wouldn't make sense on a magBlade since they don't have strong PvP AoE. It makes sense on a Magplar if you wan't to drop a field of potatos, but thats more about synergy than individual ultimate balance.
I agree that 15% maybe a bit too much, maybe more along the lines of 8%. Bias of a melee magblade *Note-I don't main mag blade, I literally play all classes somewhat equally but I "main" sorc (mag and stam).So let me get this straight. You want a cheap high dmg spammable with a "viper on steroids" attached to it. And you also want a high dmg ult, that is so cheap to the point where u can use it every other rotation, applies major defile, gives you a 20% dmg buff, gives ult, gives you a speed buff and snare immunity for 5 seconds which means you will be prety much immune to snares all the time. And this is not overpowered according to you.
Wanna double the dmg of spectral bow too? Or maybe impale having execute dmg from 50% hp?
So do you think about what you read? Or do you simply nitpick points and pull them out of context to promote your own bias?
Hrmmm...a viper on steroids? Grab a napkin:
Viper-6400 tooltip
Surprise Attack-10,000 tooltip
Light attack(2h)-6000 tooltip (rounded up from UESP value of 5 pc Hunding, 2 selene, 3 agility)
______________________
Total Damage-22,400
After Battle Spirit-11,200
w/o viper-8000
"viper on steroids"-3,000
Concealed weapon-10,000
Light Attack (DW)/(Fire Destro)-1.5k/6k (same as 2h, but with julianos/agility/grothdar)
______________________
Total Damage-14,500/19,000
After Battle Spirit-7,250/9,500
As you can see, the whole point of the "viper of steroids" is to make up for the lack of LA weave damage that melee magblades tend to lose out on. On top of that, melee magblades need to be in melee range which often requires dodge rolling, especially vs a magplar/magdk which means they need to invest more into stamina losing out on something else, usually damage. So realistically, the concealed weapon tooltip should be somewhat lower than surprise attack. ON TOP of that the "viper on steroids" would only proc after the initial weave, meaning even without viper, a stamblade is still more likely to output more damage.
The combination does output more damage with a fire staff, but again, it requires melee combat which a mag blade would have to build for (i.e. less damage=lower tooltips) and it removes the benefit of ranged combat from using a destro staff. Destro light attacks also tend to have lower damage than 2h because they are meant to be used from range. Check UESP with a blank build. It's around 127 for a fire destro vs 170 for a 2H
In regards to the ultimate, I agree that the snare immunity could be over the top. It definitely wouldn't be 100% uptime. The snare immunity could be reduced to 2.5 seconds, but then I really see no point in slotting Soul Harvest over Incap if that were the case.
And LOL at the QQ for the movement speed. It's literally build into the magblade kit regardless, it's just on a different skill now.
Honestly, listing the effects of an ability is a poor argument. You need to give it context. Take Frags for example. It used to be really strong in the magsorc rotation, but do you really think a stamplar or stamblade would use it over their spammable (assuming frag scaled off stam/WD)? Most likely no because it doesn't work with the kit. It's reasonable to overload certain skills if it suits the class identity. I suggested an ultimate that really does nothing besides give the class more breathing room in a MELEE combat situation, which puts the class at an automatic disadvantage as building tanky does not offer the same benefits for magblades as it does for magDKs/magplars.
That bs you suggested can proc every second. Its unavoidable dmg every second, in other words "viper on steroids".
Frag is not a spammable. They would absolutely use it in combination with their spammables. Sorcs dont use frag as a spammable either. In fact, frags would probably be stronger on other classes. So wtf are you even talking about.
Honestly listing the effects of an ability is not a poor argument. Especially when that ability is an ultimate so cheap to the point of almost being used as a spammable and has a million different effects attached to it.
-Frags is more of a spammable than Soul Harvest
-Overload is cheaper than Soul Harvest, is ranged, and literally is a spammable (A spammable is something that can be spammed provided you have enough resources for it. )
Overload is the easiest counterable ult in the entire game and last time i checked it doesnt apply major defile, gives a dmg buff, snare immunity, speed buff and more ult. Whats next? Ask for soul harvest to store ult so you can spam it? Will you be happy then?
You can only counterplay so many 20k light attacks It's certainly more spammable than Soul Harvest.
That said, it's seldom used offensively not because it's weak or easily countered, but because shifting in and out of Overload is clunky.
Anyways, you can list the positives of anything and make it sound op. These two abilities are too different to be directly compared in this manner.
But im not the one who started bringing up sorc abilities. I was just simply stating that the suggestions someone made regarding buffs to soul harvest were completely nuts. I didnt make it sound OP. It is OP. He literally said to reduce the cost to 50, give snare immunity and also give it the passive speed buff of concealed weapon so he can also suggest some stupid buffs for concealed weapon as well like reducing the cost and give it a viper proc on every light attack after concealed.
Actually, I'm a Mag sorc main, if you read my post you'd know that.
Yes melee magblades exist but they are not as competitive as a traditional destro. Otherwise, why are they (good magblades) so rare amongst a class that is rare in PvP to begin with (outside bomber specs).
And how is my suggestion OP? It literally increases the damage of a magicka characters melee light attack to the same level as a stamina characters light attack. Let's change my suggestion to the ability making melee light attacks scale off spell damage and magicka instead. Is that op?
And Clench/shock etc are Destro spammables, not sorc spammables. The whole point of bringing up frags was that it works well in a sorc kit which is all back-loaded damage, drawing a parallel between incap and night blade which are built around front-loaded damage.
I can drop +3 people at once with a DBoS on my stamsorc. If I ran Incap it wouldn't be the same. Incap compliments the night blade kit whereas other class ultimates do not compliment their other class abilities.
Again, you really don't comprehend anything that disproves your bias. Instead of simply stating that a reduction to 50 ultimate alone would be enough to balance Soul Harvest, or that a 2.5 second snare immunity at 75 ultimate cost would be more balanced you simply QQ about a pseudo viper that, again, MATHEMATICALLY puts melee mageblade light attacks at the same level as their stam counterparts."mathematically this or that".
Magicka light dual wield attack on a blank/naked character with 64 Magicka attribute=111Mathematically, this ^ is inferior to that v
Stamina light dual wield attack on a blank/naked character with 64 Stamina attribute=210
DW on magicka builds trade the dmg from weaving for more spell dmg and an extra set piece. In general thats the trade off u are making right now. Its not like you are inherently at a disadvantage just because you use DW.
Suggesting to make all weapon LA/HA scaling off max stats is a completely different discussion. That wasnt ur suggestion. Your suggestion was 1.5k (PVP) unbuffed unavoidable dmg proc on every single light attack as long as u use concealed. They are two entirely different suggestions that doesnt affect the game in the same way obviously. Your suggestion was basically a dmg mega buff to concealed along with a cost reduction. Not to rework how LA/HA are calculated.
Magblade requires good weaving. So it is at a slight disadvantage
Im not sure if you actually understood what i said. I am talking about the Dual wield - Destro advantages/disadvantages in PVP.
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IAVITNI✭✭✭✭✭
I know that sorc dont have an actual class spammable and i know how the class is designed. I was just simply saying that ur statement was wrong. Just because frag is the "closest" to a sorc spammable it doesnt mean that you can compare it with actual spammables. Thats not how it actually functions. Therefore your statement about other classes not dropping their spammables for frags makes absolutely no sense. Yes they wouldnt drop their spammables for it but they would gladly use frags as a burst ability. Why wouldnt they?
The mechanics of the skills themselves is what determines the philosophy behind the skill. I cant compare dizzying with frags because the mechanics sets them apart and make them being used very differently. Dizzying can be used as a spammable. Frags cant primarily because you are vulnerable to interrupts. Frags can be compared to dark flare cause it has similar functions. That skill also cant be used as a spammable and its only used for burst or on gank builds. So basically like frags.
I'm not comparing the skills themselves, I'm comparing the entirety of the skill lines. And yes, Dark Flare is the best skill to compare Frags to mechanically, and thank you for bringing it up because that is entirely my point. It's only used for burst and gank builds the same way that Frags is only used for burst or gank (I hate blob sometimes xD) because an actual spammable suits the conventional magplar build more than a burst ability. Sorcs don't get a class spammable because they get frag, and it works out for the best because their kit is designed around back loaded damage. If stamblades had Frags instead of SA they would underperform by a large margin because it does not suit their kit. That's the whole point, Sorcs don't get a spammable because they get frags but it works because thats how their kit is designed.I couldnt start with that cause in ur initial statement you never mentioned other classes and that ur goal was to rework LA/HA and how they are calculated. Your suggestion was just a flat out mega dmg buff to concealed weapon. And i didnt acknoweledge the part about magicka characters dealing less dmg than stamina cause im not doing PVE and im not qualified to speak about that. But as far as i know magicka build have better survivability, range, AOE and utility in PVE and stamina has more single target dmg. That sounds balanced to me. And i say PVE cause thats the part of the game where weaving makes the most difference and DW magicka builds are not viable with the exception of templars. If your speaking about PVP then it makes no sense. Like i said you are giving up weaving dmg for more raw stats and a more bursty build. That also sounds balanced to me.See if you started with this, we wouldn't have wasted paragraphs. Instead you focused on other parts of my post, interpreted the meaning behind them in the most literal sense because it suited your argument and talked about how "their is no mathematically this or that" in a game where 1.5k damage is apparently game breaking. Yet you don't even acknowledge that magicka characters deal less damage than stamina characters because it would prove that you overlooked that part of the argument, which ironically was the argument. So yes I do think you are biased.
And stop calling me biased. Biased means having personal feelings clouding my judgment and therefore judging magblade unfairly. This is simply not true. Even magblades dont agree with you. If anything ur comments were showing bias cause you suggested a change that only makes magblades have high dmg with DW LA/HA that puts them on par with stamina builds.
Incap kind of needs the CC for the front loaded burst. Every offensive burst rotation has a CC worked into it. Don't do to night blades what they did to sorcs (For the record I support the CC removal, but would advocate for the 10% damage removed to be returned). It will be far more damaging because NBs are front-loaded damage so by the time their full burst rotation goes off their opponent would have already healed back up halfway through. It's better to decrease its tooltip damage or the increased damage done after. Major Defile is an issue on its own, especially with Befoul CP which I personally think should have never existed.
Stating that magblade is balanced is a tossup.I'd agree that it is the most balanced, but open world, a melee magblade has to make just one to many sacrifices everywhere. It needs a very minor tweak, and bringing their LA weaves up to par with stam seems like the safest way to go without affecting the rest of magnb kits. Do this and they should be perfect. And as to why I wouldn't just suggest Major Breach is because I am strongly against homogenizing skills/skill lines.
Ok, maybe you're not biased against night blades but you still nitpicked my post, implying a bias against me. You didn't even touch on my points, told me "math'' didn't exist and just stated my proposal was ludicrous. So fine, you could argue you were not biased (I still disagree), but definitely rude.Compare it with major fracture and major savagery? You do realise that you can get those buffs as a magblade right(the magicka equivalents) ? Im not even sure if you actually comprehend the actual power of ur suggestion. 1.5k unbuffed in PVP means a 3k unbuffed tooltip. Your suggestion was basically to increase the power of concealed weapon by a minimum of 3k extra dmg which would automatically make it the hardest hitting spammable in the game by miles.
And this is why I think you're biased. I wasn't comparing the effects of the buffs themselves, I was comparing their uptime. Hitting with SA or Jabs GUARANTEES you benefit from the secondary effect. Guaranteed uptime vs conditional uptime. The focus on uptime was very obivious in the way I phrased it but you chose to interpret in the best way to discredit me. BIAS.
It would give it the highest conditional tooltip damage but it would do nothing else. The only other magicka classes that can pull of DW melee builds are Magplar and Magdk. Their class spammables hit for competitive damage but they also heal them, allowing them to stay in melee longer. So yes, they trade range for all those things you listed above, but their abilities have built in mechanics that benefit them in melee range. Magblades don't get any kind of benefit. Nor should they get a boost in durability since that doesn't fit in with their design philosophy, so yes, I think giving them the highest tooltip spammable is fair. You could decrease the numbers slightly but the concept is still solid.0 -
thankyourat✭✭✭✭✭
✭Joy_Division wrote: »Joy_Division wrote: »Master_Kas wrote: »Incap is another dumbed down ability. It used to stun if you had lower HP than your target meaning when you needed it. Was way more balanced than the mess it is today.
Soul harvest is fine imo. Incap should not have a stun or revert it to the way it was.
If incap loses the stun, then it should be given something to compensate ir more time on damage debuff otherwise why choose incap when soul harvest gives ult on kill? Better yet to have incap stun based on %hp
I'll trade you my empowering sweep for an Incap that doesn't stun.
Why does that matter? No one would use incap over soul harvest if the stun is completely removed without compensation. Sure you lose a bit of damage due to cp, but you get 10 ult on kill passively which more than makes up for it.
Must be nice to have a choice between good ultimates.
Especially 4 different kind of useful ults:
Single target nuke, AoE Nuke, strongest burst heal AoE, best damage mitigation AoE ult attached with the second strongest HoT as synergy
It's ironic that the classes with the already best toolkit want even more sweeties
If I didn't know better I'd think you're calling magblade broken or overpowered? Lmao
Nah just saying that the nb toolkit has everything you could ask for.
As i said Magnb is the best balanced class in the game imo
At this point in the game I feel every class has enough going for it to be competitive. Magblade is just decent at everything but it doesn't really have a place it excels at. Take magplar for instance it doesn't really have alot of mobility options, but it's far more tanky than a magblade could every be. I don't think the nightblade tool kit is any better or worse than the other classes1 -
BohnT✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭thankyourat wrote: »Joy_Division wrote: »Joy_Division wrote: »Master_Kas wrote: »Incap is another dumbed down ability. It used to stun if you had lower HP than your target meaning when you needed it. Was way more balanced than the mess it is today.
Soul harvest is fine imo. Incap should not have a stun or revert it to the way it was.
If incap loses the stun, then it should be given something to compensate ir more time on damage debuff otherwise why choose incap when soul harvest gives ult on kill? Better yet to have incap stun based on %hp
I'll trade you my empowering sweep for an Incap that doesn't stun.
Why does that matter? No one would use incap over soul harvest if the stun is completely removed without compensation. Sure you lose a bit of damage due to cp, but you get 10 ult on kill passively which more than makes up for it.
Must be nice to have a choice between good ultimates.
Especially 4 different kind of useful ults:
Single target nuke, AoE Nuke, strongest burst heal AoE, best damage mitigation AoE ult attached with the second strongest HoT as synergy
It's ironic that the classes with the already best toolkit want even more sweeties
If I didn't know better I'd think you're calling magblade broken or overpowered? Lmao
Nah just saying that the nb toolkit has everything you could ask for.
As i said Magnb is the best balanced class in the game imo
At this point in the game I feel every class has enough going for it to be competitive. Magblade is just decent at everything but it doesn't really have a place it excels at. Take magplar for instance it doesn't really have alot of mobility options, but it's far more tanky than a magblade could every be. I don't think the nightblade tool kit is any better or worse than the other classes
You aren't serious right?
1 -
thankyourat✭✭✭✭✭
✭thankyourat wrote: »Joy_Division wrote: »Joy_Division wrote: »Master_Kas wrote: »Incap is another dumbed down ability. It used to stun if you had lower HP than your target meaning when you needed it. Was way more balanced than the mess it is today.
Soul harvest is fine imo. Incap should not have a stun or revert it to the way it was.
If incap loses the stun, then it should be given something to compensate ir more time on damage debuff otherwise why choose incap when soul harvest gives ult on kill? Better yet to have incap stun based on %hp
I'll trade you my empowering sweep for an Incap that doesn't stun.
Why does that matter? No one would use incap over soul harvest if the stun is completely removed without compensation. Sure you lose a bit of damage due to cp, but you get 10 ult on kill passively which more than makes up for it.
Must be nice to have a choice between good ultimates.
Especially 4 different kind of useful ults:
Single target nuke, AoE Nuke, strongest burst heal AoE, best damage mitigation AoE ult attached with the second strongest HoT as synergy
It's ironic that the classes with the already best toolkit want even more sweeties
If I didn't know better I'd think you're calling magblade broken or overpowered? Lmao
Nah just saying that the nb toolkit has everything you could ask for.
As i said Magnb is the best balanced class in the game imo
At this point in the game I feel every class has enough going for it to be competitive. Magblade is just decent at everything but it doesn't really have a place it excels at. Take magplar for instance it doesn't really have alot of mobility options, but it's far more tanky than a magblade could every be. I don't think the nightblade tool kit is any better or worse than the other classes
You aren't serious right?
I'm very serious this is what keeps nightblade balanced the class it self is no better than the other classes. I wouldn't vote Magicka or stamina nightblade the best class right now for any version of PvP. Especially stamblade. Honestly I don't feel like stamblade is that strong at all. I really don't remember the last time one even killed me 1v1. I would rather fight a stamblade instead of a mag dk or stam warden any day. The only time stamblade really excels is when played against squishy less experienced players. Other than that stamblade is just as good as the other classes. Overall nightblade is balanced just like all the other classes are balanced they all have strengths and weakness. I think stamblade is one of those classes like magsorc that just gives newer players and players that aren't as mechanically advanced a hard time. When in reality a well played mag dk or magplar is far more deadly than both of those classes.3 -
Subversus✭✭✭✭✭
✭Joy_Division wrote: »Joy_Division wrote: »Master_Kas wrote: »Incap is another dumbed down ability. It used to stun if you had lower HP than your target meaning when you needed it. Was way more balanced than the mess it is today.
Soul harvest is fine imo. Incap should not have a stun or revert it to the way it was.
If incap loses the stun, then it should be given something to compensate ir more time on damage debuff otherwise why choose incap when soul harvest gives ult on kill? Better yet to have incap stun based on %hp
I'll trade you my empowering sweep for an Incap that doesn't stun.
Why does that matter? No one would use incap over soul harvest if the stun is completely removed without compensation. Sure you lose a bit of damage due to cp, but you get 10 ult on kill passively which more than makes up for it.
Must be nice to have a choice between good ultimates.
Especially 4 different kind of useful ults:
Single target nuke, AoE Nuke, strongest burst heal AoE, best damage mitigation AoE ult attached with the second strongest HoT as synergy
It's ironic that the classes with the already best toolkit want even more sweeties
If I didn't know better I'd think you're calling magblade broken or overpowered? Lmao
Nah just saying that the nb toolkit has everything you could ask for.
As i said Magnb is the best balanced class in the game imo
That's right I guess. I just wish half of that toolkit was actually working and was not broken
But to be fair, stamblades are actually quite strong in solo play (thanks to the toolkit you mentioned), though this thread is about their magicka counterpart.0 -
NyassaV✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I'm bumping this because it's still relevantFlawless Conqueror ~ Grand OverlordShe/Her ~ PC/NA | I record things for fun and for info0