Soul Harvest will need an additional effect in order to compete with Incap following this bug fix

Tommy_The_Gun

What baffles me is that Soul Harvest was un-dogable (according to ZOS due to a bug because in the past every magicka based skill was un-dogable and now they are fixing it) - just for a comparison - warden has un-dodgable ranged spam-able (Dive & its morphs).

Just listen to how that sounds:
A dodgeable ULTIMATE vs undodgeable ranged spam-able

Feanor

kaithuzar wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

Should we not have a low cost, semi-spammable ulti option for one or two classes in the game?

No we shouldn’t, and especially not if it is a powerful ability. The words „ulti“ and „spammable“ are contradictory.

You mean like dk's running dragon set, blood spawn, and/or decisive and "seemingly" spamming leap every 2 attacks?

And? Anyone running these sets could do this. That’s beside the point. Also comparing one ultimate with a cost of 125 to another with a cost of 70 is disingenuous.

Subversus

Jaguar_SF wrote: »

magic NB been always weak and will always be the same at least for PvP. Just live with it and reroll Warden. Pay for The Win

I disagree. Magblade is neither weak nor too strong. It's exactly in the right spot.

BohnT

Subversus wrote: »

Jaguar_SF wrote: »

magic NB been always weak and will always be the same at least for PvP. Just live with it and reroll Warden. Pay for The Win

I disagree. Magblade is neither weak nor too strong. It's exactly in the right spot.

This 100% this.
Magnb is how every other class should be, strong in their own department with their own individual tools which define the class.
And if there are hardcounters to things there should be viable counters to these hardcounters that classes can utilise.
This is like a fight of a magdk vs a magnb, with wings the dk can shutdown the offence of the magnb almost entirely the magnb on the other side can completely shutdown the magdks attempts to kill it by utilising cloak and shade only missplays or strategic superiority can decide who'll win.

Magnb doesn't need any buffs nor nerfs to their Base tools except for bug fixes this strengthens them in some ways like better consistency of shade and cloak but weakens them in other things like heavy attacks counting as 2 light attacks for will or bugged incap/fear ccs

Derra

Not 100% sure i agree to bohn and subersus - mainly bc of how buggy cloak and shade are atm.

Otherwise yes i agree. Magblade is about the only char that feels fine and looks fine on paper!

Subversus

Derra wrote: »

Not 100% sure i agree to bohn and subersus - mainly bc of how buggy cloak and shade are atm.

Otherwise yes i agree. Magblade is about the only char that feels fine and looks fine on paper!

Well yeah, assuming shade gets fixed next patch and ignoring the fact that cloak is so bugged I meant balance-wise, the class is very very well balanced. It has it's hard counters even!

BohnT

Derra wrote: »

Not 100% sure i agree to bohn and subersus - mainly bc of how buggy cloak and shade are atm.

Otherwise yes i agree. Magblade is about the only char that feels fine and looks fine on paper!

That's why i said the only things which need to be done are bugfixes

Chilly-McFreeze

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

What baffles me is that Soul Harvest was un-dogable (according to ZOS due to a bug because in the past every magicka based skill was un-dogable and now they are fixing it) - just for a comparison - warden has un-dodgable ranged spam-able (Dive & its morphs).

Just listen to how that sounds:
A dodgeable ULTIMATE vs undodgeable ranged spam-able

So make birds dodgeable.

NyassaV

*bump* BTW we can't just slot soul tether instead... that gets dodge I've found

brandonv516

Hollery wrote: »

*bump* BTW we can't just slot soul tether instead... that gets dodge I've found

Yep and this is a bug that they will realize in 2 years.

kaithuzar

I am wondering why soul harvest & incap are dodgable when plenty of other hard hitting ults are not dodgable. I.e... dk leap & meteor

Why not just make all ultimate not dodgable so players must block to mitigate damage?

BohnT

kaithuzar wrote: »

I am wondering why soul harvest & incap are dodgable when plenty of other hard hitting ults are not dodgable. I.e... dk leap & meteor

Because they are already the best single target ults and can be spammed like a normal skill?

kaithuzar

They are only the best when they hit.
Players now have "passive dodge chance", how many incaps do you expect me to perform before one finally hits?

BohnT

kaithuzar wrote: »

They are only the best when they hit.
Players now have "passive dodge chance", how many incaps do you expect me to perform before one finally hits?

Are you serious?
Maybe 15% of all players on cyro are running medium thus having access to major evasion.
15% of the skills you use against those 15% will be dodged.
2.25% of your overall used skills will be dodged by passive dodgeing.
And hitting incap on a target that has no shuffle is the easiest task in this game, simple AC and you can ignore random dodgeroll aswell because it lands so fast


Incap is in need for nerfs not buffs and Soul Harvest will be balanced by a nerf to incap.

Ragnaroek93

kaithuzar wrote: »

I am wondering why soul harvest & incap are dodgable when plenty of other hard hitting ults are not dodgable. I.e... dk leap & meteor

Why not just make all ultimate not dodgable so players must block to mitigate damage?

Why not just make all ultimates go through dodge, block and shields? Sounds stupid, right?

Chilly-McFreeze

kaithuzar wrote: »

I am wondering why soul harvest & incap are dodgable when plenty of other hard hitting ults are not dodgable. I.e... dk leap & meteor

Why not just make all ultimate not dodgable so players must block to mitigate damage?

Yep bc medium armor performs all so well. Better give us a reason not to wear it.

kaithuzar

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

kaithuzar wrote: »

I am wondering why soul harvest & incap are dodgable when plenty of other hard hitting ults are not dodgable. I.e... dk leap & meteor

Why not just make all ultimate not dodgable so players must block to mitigate damage?

Why not just make all ultimates go through dodge, block and shields? Sounds stupid, right?

I didn't say anything about block or shields, you're just being antagonizing at this point...

kaithuzar

BohnT wrote: »

kaithuzar wrote: »

They are only the best when they hit.
Players now have "passive dodge chance", how many incaps do you expect me to perform before one finally hits?

Are you serious?
Maybe 15% of all players on cyro are running medium thus having access to major evasion.
15% of the skills you use against those 15% will be dodged.
2.25% of your overall used skills will be dodged by passive dodgeing.
And hitting incap on a target that has no shuffle is the easiest task in this game, simple AC and you can ignore random dodgeroll aswell because it lands so fast


Incap is in need for nerfs not buffs and Soul Harvest will be balanced by a nerf to incap.

Why on earth would you say incap needs nerfs when even stamblades often use dawn breaker b/c aoe
I thought this was a "buff soul harvest thread" not a "nerf incap thread"

BohnT

kaithuzar wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

kaithuzar wrote: »

They are only the best when they hit.
Players now have "passive dodge chance", how many incaps do you expect me to perform before one finally hits?

Are you serious?
Maybe 15% of all players on cyro are running medium thus having access to major evasion.
15% of the skills you use against those 15% will be dodged.
2.25% of your overall used skills will be dodged by passive dodgeing.
And hitting incap on a target that has no shuffle is the easiest task in this game, simple AC and you can ignore random dodgeroll aswell because it lands so fast


Incap is in need for nerfs not buffs and Soul Harvest will be balanced by a nerf to incap.

Why on earth would you say incap needs nerfs when even stamblades often use dawn breaker b/c aoe
I thought this was a "buff soul harvest thread" not a "nerf incap thread"

Dude, if stamnbs use Dawnbreaker they are bad, period. Incap is the best single target ult by far in this game.
We don't Need to buff Soul harvest to make it as overperforming as Incap is right now.
People are far too used to get their easy kills with incap that they think every ult should be like that but no.
Soul Harvest is the Morph which incap should be balanced around not vice versa.

kaithuzar

BohnT wrote: »

kaithuzar wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

kaithuzar wrote: »

They are only the best when they hit.
Players now have "passive dodge chance", how many incaps do you expect me to perform before one finally hits?

Are you serious?
Maybe 15% of all players on cyro are running medium thus having access to major evasion.
15% of the skills you use against those 15% will be dodged.
2.25% of your overall used skills will be dodged by passive dodgeing.
And hitting incap on a target that has no shuffle is the easiest task in this game, simple AC and you can ignore random dodgeroll aswell because it lands so fast


Incap is in need for nerfs not buffs and Soul Harvest will be balanced by a nerf to incap.

Why on earth would you say incap needs nerfs when even stamblades often use dawn breaker b/c aoe
I thought this was a "buff soul harvest thread" not a "nerf incap thread"

Dude, if stamnbs use Dawnbreaker they are bad, period. Incap is the best single target ult by far in this game.
We don't Need to buff Soul harvest to make it as overperforming as Incap is right now.
People are far too used to get their easy kills with incap that they think every ult should be like that but no.
Soul Harvest is the Morph which incap should be balanced around not vice versa.

I guess we just have to disagree on this topic as I believe the opposite; that soul harvest should be buffed. I'm not debating how strong incap is, just saying that it's single target which makes it weaker than dawnbreaker in group play or an instance fighting multiple opponents.

BohnT

kaithuzar wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

kaithuzar wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

kaithuzar wrote: »

They are only the best when they hit.
Players now have "passive dodge chance", how many incaps do you expect me to perform before one finally hits?

Are you serious?
Maybe 15% of all players on cyro are running medium thus having access to major evasion.
15% of the skills you use against those 15% will be dodged.
2.25% of your overall used skills will be dodged by passive dodgeing.
And hitting incap on a target that has no shuffle is the easiest task in this game, simple AC and you can ignore random dodgeroll aswell because it lands so fast


Incap is in need for nerfs not buffs and Soul Harvest will be balanced by a nerf to incap.

Why on earth would you say incap needs nerfs when even stamblades often use dawn breaker b/c aoe
I thought this was a "buff soul harvest thread" not a "nerf incap thread"

Dude, if stamnbs use Dawnbreaker they are bad, period. Incap is the best single target ult by far in this game.
We don't Need to buff Soul harvest to make it as overperforming as Incap is right now.
People are far too used to get their easy kills with incap that they think every ult should be like that but no.
Soul Harvest is the Morph which incap should be balanced around not vice versa.

I guess we just have to disagree on this topic as I believe the opposite; that soul harvest should be buffed. I'm not debating how strong incap is, just saying that it's single target which makes it weaker than dawnbreaker in group play or an instance fighting multiple opponents.

In 1vX incap is still better than Dawnbreaker.
If you try to kill multiple people at the same time you'll die. With incap you can kill 1 target with ease and then you can switch to the next target because incap is ready again every time you kill someone.

Incap needs to get its CC removed. Then Incap and Soul Harvest are on the same level.
1. No buff will bring Soul Harvest on the same level as Incap
2. no ult should be on that level in the first place
3. Incap nerf would balance stamnb in pvp

Feanor

kaithuzar wrote: »

I am wondering why soul harvest & incap are dodgable when plenty of other hard hitting ults are not dodgable. I.e... dk leap & meteor

Why not just make all ultimate not dodgable so players must block to mitigate damage?

You mean that Meteor that hits a blocking target in most cases unless it has no stamina left? That Meteor that has the most visible audio and visual telegraphs in the whole game? That Meteor that requires running your opponent out of stamina and well timed CC to actually kill? That one? Yes. It really hits hard. When you’re not blocking and staying in the ground AoE. It would be hilarious if this were dodgeable on top.

BohnT

Feanor wrote: »

kaithuzar wrote: »

I am wondering why soul harvest & incap are dodgable when plenty of other hard hitting ults are not dodgable. I.e... dk leap & meteor

Why not just make all ultimate not dodgable so players must block to mitigate damage?

You mean that Meteor that hits a blocking target in most cases unless it has no stamina left? That Meteor that has the most visible audio and visual telegraphs in the whole game? That Meteor that requires running your opponent out of stamina and well timed CC to actually kill? That one? Yes. It really hits hard. When you’re not blocking and staying in the ground AoE. It would be hilarious if this were dodgeable on top.

Well you already have access to an undodgeable unblockable stun that is perfectly delayed to make meteor or frags hit with a 100% chance.
The only class that still has to worry about hitting ults on blocking targets is templar all others have no reason to complain

Feanor

BohnT wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

kaithuzar wrote: »

I am wondering why soul harvest & incap are dodgable when plenty of other hard hitting ults are not dodgable. I.e... dk leap & meteor

Why not just make all ultimate not dodgable so players must block to mitigate damage?

You mean that Meteor that hits a blocking target in most cases unless it has no stamina left? That Meteor that has the most visible audio and visual telegraphs in the whole game? That Meteor that requires running your opponent out of stamina and well timed CC to actually kill? That one? Yes. It really hits hard. When you’re not blocking and staying in the ground AoE. It would be hilarious if this were dodgeable on top.

Well you already have access to an undodgeable unblockable stun that is perfectly delayed to make meteor or frags hit with a 100% chance.
The only class that still has to worry about hitting ults on blocking targets is templar all others have no reason to complain

Rune Cage into Meteor is strong, no doubt. It shouldn’t be that way, and it has nothing to do with Meteor. It’s the wonky animation of Rune Cage that is to blame. I do wish Sorc would get a complete overhaul.

BohnT

Feanor wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

kaithuzar wrote: »

I am wondering why soul harvest & incap are dodgable when plenty of other hard hitting ults are not dodgable. I.e... dk leap & meteor

Why not just make all ultimate not dodgable so players must block to mitigate damage?

You mean that Meteor that hits a blocking target in most cases unless it has no stamina left? That Meteor that has the most visible audio and visual telegraphs in the whole game? That Meteor that requires running your opponent out of stamina and well timed CC to actually kill? That one? Yes. It really hits hard. When you’re not blocking and staying in the ground AoE. It would be hilarious if this were dodgeable on top.

Well you already have access to an undodgeable unblockable stun that is perfectly delayed to make meteor or frags hit with a 100% chance.
The only class that still has to worry about hitting ults on blocking targets is templar all others have no reason to complain

Rune Cage into Meteor is strong, no doubt. It shouldn’t be that way, and it has nothing to do with Meteor. It’s the wonky animation of Rune Cage that is to blame. I do wish Sorc would get a complete overhaul.

Sadly the wonky animation is intended to make it more noob friendly to simply do the 1,2,3 rota on your keyboard with meteor, rune cage and frags and both meteor and frags hit about 0.1 sec after rune cage.

Sorc overhaul would change many things in a good way but i don't think that ZoS could keep class identity while still make it balanced

Subversus

BohnT wrote: »

kaithuzar wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

kaithuzar wrote: »

They are only the best when they hit.
Players now have "passive dodge chance", how many incaps do you expect me to perform before one finally hits?

Are you serious?
Maybe 15% of all players on cyro are running medium thus having access to major evasion.
15% of the skills you use against those 15% will be dodged.
2.25% of your overall used skills will be dodged by passive dodgeing.
And hitting incap on a target that has no shuffle is the easiest task in this game, simple AC and you can ignore random dodgeroll aswell because it lands so fast


Incap is in need for nerfs not buffs and Soul Harvest will be balanced by a nerf to incap.

Why on earth would you say incap needs nerfs when even stamblades often use dawn breaker b/c aoe
I thought this was a "buff soul harvest thread" not a "nerf incap thread"

Dude, if stamnbs use Dawnbreaker they are bad, period. Incap is the best single target ult by far in this game.
We don't Need to buff Soul harvest to make it as overperforming as Incap is right now.
People are far too used to get their easy kills with incap that they think every ult should be like that but no.
Soul Harvest is the Morph which incap should be balanced around not vice versa.

??????

Soul harvest is literally incap but without a stun? You make them as if they're in two different leagues with incap being this god tier ultimate that does 62784928 different things when in reality all it does compared to the ult that you say is "balanced" is have an extra stun.

Can't tell if troll or just bad

BohnT

Subversus wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

kaithuzar wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

kaithuzar wrote: »

They are only the best when they hit.
Players now have "passive dodge chance", how many incaps do you expect me to perform before one finally hits?

Are you serious?
Maybe 15% of all players on cyro are running medium thus having access to major evasion.
15% of the skills you use against those 15% will be dodged.
2.25% of your overall used skills will be dodged by passive dodgeing.
And hitting incap on a target that has no shuffle is the easiest task in this game, simple AC and you can ignore random dodgeroll aswell because it lands so fast


Incap is in need for nerfs not buffs and Soul Harvest will be balanced by a nerf to incap.

Why on earth would you say incap needs nerfs when even stamblades often use dawn breaker b/c aoe
I thought this was a "buff soul harvest thread" not a "nerf incap thread"

Dude, if stamnbs use Dawnbreaker they are bad, period. Incap is the best single target ult by far in this game.
We don't Need to buff Soul harvest to make it as overperforming as Incap is right now.
People are far too used to get their easy kills with incap that they think every ult should be like that but no.
Soul Harvest is the Morph which incap should be balanced around not vice versa.

??????

Soul harvest is literally incap but without a stun? You make them as if they're in two different leagues with incap being this god tier ultimate that does 62784928 different things when in reality all it does compared to the ult that you say is "balanced" is have an extra stun.

Can't tell if troll or just bad

The stun makes it op.
You know as good as i do that no one uses Soul Harvest simply because it doesn't feature a CC.
The CC gives you another skill that will hit no matter how fast the enemy tries to CC break.

They are in different leagues. Play soul harvest on magblade for a week and then switch to Incap.
Incap increases the ease to hit burst way too much.

Everyone that is hit by Soul Harvest immediately blocks or dodges meaning the following will won't hit. With incap your will hits 49/50 times using it immediately after incap.

Derra

BohnT wrote: »

Subversus wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

kaithuzar wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

kaithuzar wrote: »

They are only the best when they hit.
Players now have "passive dodge chance", how many incaps do you expect me to perform before one finally hits?

Are you serious?
Maybe 15% of all players on cyro are running medium thus having access to major evasion.
15% of the skills you use against those 15% will be dodged.
2.25% of your overall used skills will be dodged by passive dodgeing.
And hitting incap on a target that has no shuffle is the easiest task in this game, simple AC and you can ignore random dodgeroll aswell because it lands so fast


Incap is in need for nerfs not buffs and Soul Harvest will be balanced by a nerf to incap.

Why on earth would you say incap needs nerfs when even stamblades often use dawn breaker b/c aoe
I thought this was a "buff soul harvest thread" not a "nerf incap thread"

Dude, if stamnbs use Dawnbreaker they are bad, period. Incap is the best single target ult by far in this game.
We don't Need to buff Soul harvest to make it as overperforming as Incap is right now.
People are far too used to get their easy kills with incap that they think every ult should be like that but no.
Soul Harvest is the Morph which incap should be balanced around not vice versa.

??????

Soul harvest is literally incap but without a stun? You make them as if they're in two different leagues with incap being this god tier ultimate that does 62784928 different things when in reality all it does compared to the ult that you say is "balanced" is have an extra stun.

Can't tell if troll or just bad

The stun makes it op.
You know as good as i do that no one uses Soul Harvest simply because it doesn't feature a CC.
The CC gives you another skill that will hit no matter how fast the enemy tries to CC break.

They are in different leagues. Play soul harvest on magblade for a week and then switch to Incap.
Incap increases the ease to hit burst way too much.

Everyone that is hit by Soul Harvest immediately blocks or dodges meaning the following will won't hit. With incap your will hits 49/50 times using it immediately after incap.

Here i am using harvest on my NB
You seem to bash on everything i do with my nightblade. So rude.

I agree however that incap is somewhat overperforming due to it´s stun component.

NyassaV

Incap doesn't stun... It does a knock down which has buggy animations and because CC break can't be animation cancelled... Well you get the picture

Soul Harvest needs something to compensate in PvP @ZOS_Wrobel I will legit help you grind up a MagBlade if it helps you get perspective

BohnT

Derra wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

Subversus wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

kaithuzar wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

kaithuzar wrote: »

They are only the best when they hit.
Players now have "passive dodge chance", how many incaps do you expect me to perform before one finally hits?

Are you serious?
Maybe 15% of all players on cyro are running medium thus having access to major evasion.
15% of the skills you use against those 15% will be dodged.
2.25% of your overall used skills will be dodged by passive dodgeing.
And hitting incap on a target that has no shuffle is the easiest task in this game, simple AC and you can ignore random dodgeroll aswell because it lands so fast


Incap is in need for nerfs not buffs and Soul Harvest will be balanced by a nerf to incap.

Why on earth would you say incap needs nerfs when even stamblades often use dawn breaker b/c aoe
I thought this was a "buff soul harvest thread" not a "nerf incap thread"

Dude, if stamnbs use Dawnbreaker they are bad, period. Incap is the best single target ult by far in this game.
We don't Need to buff Soul harvest to make it as overperforming as Incap is right now.
People are far too used to get their easy kills with incap that they think every ult should be like that but no.
Soul Harvest is the Morph which incap should be balanced around not vice versa.

??????

Soul harvest is literally incap but without a stun? You make them as if they're in two different leagues with incap being this god tier ultimate that does 62784928 different things when in reality all it does compared to the ult that you say is "balanced" is have an extra stun.

Can't tell if troll or just bad

The stun makes it op.
You know as good as i do that no one uses Soul Harvest simply because it doesn't feature a CC.
The CC gives you another skill that will hit no matter how fast the enemy tries to CC break.

They are in different leagues. Play soul harvest on magblade for a week and then switch to Incap.
Incap increases the ease to hit burst way too much.

Everyone that is hit by Soul Harvest immediately blocks or dodges meaning the following will won't hit. With incap your will hits 49/50 times using it immediately after incap.

Here i am using harvest on my NB
You seem to bash on everything i do with my nightblade. So rude.

I agree however that incap is somewhat overperforming due to it´s stun component.

Damn Metabreakers

I played Soul Harvest as well but when i switched to incap my killing potential increased so much especially in open world.
Incap is so nice as you can even instagib good players because incap+will leaves almost no reaction time and with major vulnerability + major defile people can't heal up again fast enough.