Soul Harvest will need an additional effect in order to compete with Incap following this bug fix

NightbladeMechanics

This post is speaking from a PvP magicka nightblade perspective.

Note that I use and swear by Incap and not Soul Harvest right now. Combining your cc and some burst into one gcd is more effective for burst comboing opponents than getting that bit of extra damage. Soul Harvest is a close contender due to being undodgeable, but it falls short for general use in PvP in my opinion.

In PvP, following the fix on being undodgeable, Soul Harvest will only be used as an ulti generator for back bar ults -- i.e. grinding and destro bombing (which is essentially grinding ). It needs an additional feature of some kind to promote its use over Incap's powerful and fast cc. Either that, or make all ultis (including Incap) function off of highest crit chance and crit damage stat, like they do with your spell/weapon damage and max stam/magicka. That way, we non-bomber magicka builds can all happily use Incap and deal some more damage with it. Right now it deals very little on magicka builds, yet is still the stronger morph despite Soul Harvest being undodgeable.

I know that Soul Harvest was not intended to be dodgeable. That bug was implemented in Morrowind patch, and I have reported it many times since discovering it back then.

casparian

Soul Harvest will still be a BIS choice in PVE for the ult-generation and increased Impale damage in execute phase. Other ults have one morph for PVE and another for PVP (e.g. Dawnbreaker, Standard). Why shouldn't Death Stroke be the same?

Koolio

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

This post is speaking from a PvP magicka nightblade perspective.

Note that I use and swear by Incap and not Soul Harvest right now. Combining your cc and some burst into one gcd is more effective for burst comboing opponents than getting that bit of extra damage. Soul Harvest is a close contender due to being undodgeable, but it falls short for general use in PvP in my opinion.

In PvP, following the fix on being undodgeable, Soul Harvest will only be used as an ulti generator for back bar ults -- i.e. grinding and destro bombing (which is essentially grinding ). It needs an additional feature of some kind to promote its use over Incap's powerful and fast cc. Either that, or make all ultis (including Incap) function off of highest crit chance and crit damage stat, like they do with your spell/weapon damage and max stam/magicka. That way, we non-bomber magicka builds can all happily use Incap and deal some more damage with it. Right now it deals very little on magicka builds, yet is still the stronger morph despite Soul Harvest being undodgeable.

I know that Soul Harvest was not intended to be dodgeable. That bug was implemented in Morrowind patch, and I have reported it many times since discovering it back then.

Well looks like one of the last MNB that actually used soul harvest (me) will have to just use the Stam morph because there no point in running this anymore.

Koolio

Phone glitches out sorry for extra posts.

NightbladeMechanics

casparian wrote: »

Soul Harvest will still be a BIS choice in PVE for the ult-generation and increased Impale damage in execute phase. Other ults have one morph for PVE and another for PVP (e.g. Dawnbreaker, Standard). Why shouldn't Death Stroke be the same?

I like making choices beyond "am I killing players or NPCs right now" when choosing ults. Incap is already the stronger PvP morph because of that cc leading into your combo. I'd at least like it to function with my magicka crit and crit damage stats if it's intended to be the universal PvP morph. Also Incap gives all of the same passives as Soul Harvest except for the ulti gain and functioning with elfborn, ele expert, prophecy, and other magicka-specific buffs.

Koolio wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

This post is speaking from a PvP magicka nightblade perspective.

Note that I use and swear by Incap and not Soul Harvest right now. Combining your cc and some burst into one gcd is more effective for burst comboing opponents than getting that bit of extra damage. Soul Harvest is a close contender due to being undodgeable, but it falls short for general use in PvP in my opinion.

In PvP, following the fix on being undodgeable, Soul Harvest will only be used as an ulti generator for back bar ults -- i.e. grinding and destro bombing (which is essentially grinding ). It needs an additional feature of some kind to promote its use over Incap's powerful and fast cc. Either that, or make all ultis (including Incap) function off of highest crit chance and crit damage stat, like they do with your spell/weapon damage and max stam/magicka. That way, we non-bomber magicka builds can all happily use Incap and deal some more damage with it. Right now it deals very little on magicka builds, yet is still the stronger morph despite Soul Harvest being undodgeable.

I know that Soul Harvest was not intended to be dodgeable. That bug was implemented in Morrowind patch, and I have reported it many times since discovering it back then.

Well looks like one of the last MNB that actually used soul harvest (me) will have to just use the Stam morph because there no point in running this anymore.

I too did love Soul Harvest during Morrowind after I realized it was undodgeable -- I used it to finish a guy off while I was in an emperor bomb spec, he dodge rolled yet died, and I was like wuuuuuuuuuuuut?? But eventually I switched back to Incap because that cc is just so much pressure. It comes out so fast and really allows your combo to take people by surprise. Using Soul Harvest as your offensive ulti just slows down your combos imo.

Koolio

.

Lucky28

Oh wow they're making harvest dodgeable.... that was really the only reason to choose Harvest over Incap on any spec other than bombblade. that's unfortunate.

and yet they're probably not making birds dodgeable are they?.

casparian

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

casparian wrote: »

Soul Harvest will still be a BIS choice in PVE for the ult-generation and increased Impale damage in execute phase. Other ults have one morph for PVE and another for PVP (e.g. Dawnbreaker, Standard). Why shouldn't Death Stroke be the same?

I like making choices beyond "am I killing players or NPCs right now" when choosing ults. Incap is already the stronger PvP morph because of that cc leading into your combo. I'd at least like it to function with my magicka crit and crit damage stats if it's intended to be the universal PvP morph. Also Incap gives all of the same passives as Soul Harvest except for the ulti gain and functioning with elfborn, ele expert, prophecy, and other magicka-specific buffs.

Same, and I'd love to see those other ults get more interesting choices added to them as well. But my point is that it looks like this is actually a conversation about ZOS' design philosophy for ultimate abilities, not just Soul Harvest, since by the lights of what appears to be ZOS' typical thinking when it comes to ults, Death Stroke is in a good place even if Soul Harvest has only niche application in PVP.

Solariken

casparian wrote: »

Soul Harvest will still be a BIS choice in PVE for the ult-generation and increased Impale damage in execute phase. Other ults have one morph for PVE and another for PVP (e.g. Dawnbreaker, Standard). Why shouldn't Death Stroke be the same?

QFT - neither of these morphs needs any buff at all IMO. Both are overloaded with damage and utility for a nominal cost. Please remember it's that turd Champion system that artificially skews morph viability and crappy CP design is what you should be campaigning against.

Koolio

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

casparian wrote: »

Soul Harvest will still be a BIS choice in PVE for the ult-generation and increased Impale damage in execute phase. Other ults have one morph for PVE and another for PVP (e.g. Dawnbreaker, Standard). Why shouldn't Death Stroke be the same?

I like making choices beyond "am I killing players or NPCs right now" when choosing ults. Incap is already the stronger PvP morph because of that cc leading into your combo. I'd at least like it to function with my magicka crit and crit damage stats if it's intended to be the universal PvP morph. Also Incap gives all of the same passives as Soul Harvest except for the ulti gain and functioning with elfborn, ele expert, prophecy, and other magicka-specific buffs.

Koolio wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

This post is speaking from a PvP magicka nightblade perspective.

Note that I use and swear by Incap and not Soul Harvest right now. Combining your cc and some burst into one gcd is more effective for burst comboing opponents than getting that bit of extra damage. Soul Harvest is a close contender due to being undodgeable, but it falls short for general use in PvP in my opinion.

In PvP, following the fix on being undodgeable, Soul Harvest will only be used as an ulti generator for back bar ults -- i.e. grinding and destro bombing (which is essentially grinding ). It needs an additional feature of some kind to promote its use over Incap's powerful and fast cc. Either that, or make all ultis (including Incap) function off of highest crit chance and crit damage stat, like they do with your spell/weapon damage and max stam/magicka. That way, we non-bomber magicka builds can all happily use Incap and deal some more damage with it. Right now it deals very little on magicka builds, yet is still the stronger morph despite Soul Harvest being undodgeable.

I know that Soul Harvest was not intended to be dodgeable. That bug was implemented in Morrowind patch, and I have reported it many times since discovering it back then.

Well looks like one of the last MNB that actually used soul harvest (me) will have to just use the Stam morph because there no point in running this anymore.

I too did love Soul Harvest during Morrowind after I realized it was undodgeable -- I used it to finish a guy off while I was in an emperor bomb spec, he dodge rolled yet died, and I was like wuuuuuuuuuuuut?? But eventually I switched back to Incap because that cc is just so much pressure. It comes out so fast and really allows your combo to take people by surprise. Using Soul Harvest as your offensive ulti just slows down your combos imo.

Yea I can see that. I just actually like the fact it didn’t stun. I liked hitting them with a combo into soul harvest. Then stun them at about 50% with soul harvest active for extra damage while stunned. I’m also a DW resto user but now have to re learn a whole different combo once this goes live.

PS4_ZeColmeia

casparian wrote: »

Soul Harvest will still be a BIS choice in PVE for the ult-generation and increased Impale damage in execute phase. Other ults have one morph for PVE and another for PVP (e.g. Dawnbreaker, Standard). Why shouldn't Death Stroke be the same?

Wrong, shields does better unless you don't have sorcs in your group, especially in trials.

Personally give guaranteed critical strike for the duration and I'll call it a fair draw.

Koolio

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

This post is speaking from a PvP magicka nightblade perspective.

Note that I use and swear by Incap and not Soul Harvest right now. Combining your cc and some burst into one gcd is more effective for burst comboing opponents than getting that bit of extra damage. Soul Harvest is a close contender due to being undodgeable, but it falls short for general use in PvP in my opinion.

In PvP, following the fix on being undodgeable, Soul Harvest will only be used as an ulti generator for back bar ults -- i.e. grinding and destro bombing (which is essentially grinding ). It needs an additional feature of some kind to promote its use over Incap's powerful and fast cc. Either that, or make all ultis (including Incap) function off of highest crit chance and crit damage stat, like they do with your spell/weapon damage and max stam/magicka. That way, we non-bomber magicka builds can all happily use Incap and deal some more damage with it. Right now it deals very little on magicka builds, yet is still the stronger morph despite Soul Harvest being undodgeable.

I know that Soul Harvest was not intended to be dodgeable. That bug was implemented in Morrowind patch, and I have reported it many times since discovering it back then.

Btw Your name always gives me inspiration to get better on My MNB main even though I’m already pretty good. It’s difficult because I run a 6-10 man squad so can’t always MNB and don’t want to bomb.

casparian

PS4_ZeColmeia wrote: »

casparian wrote: »

Soul Harvest will still be a BIS choice in PVE for the ult-generation and increased Impale damage in execute phase. Other ults have one morph for PVE and another for PVP (e.g. Dawnbreaker, Standard). Why shouldn't Death Stroke be the same?

Wrong, shields does better unless you don't have sorcs in your group, especially in trials.

Personally give guaranteed critical strike for the duration and I'll call it a fair draw.

Shields? Is that an ult? Not sure what you mean.

BohnT

None of the death stroke morphs need a buff, incap needs it's stun removed.
Incap is completely overperfoming and arguably the best single target ult in the game, as you said the cc combined with high damage, 20% damage increase and major defile + passives.
On top the stun on incap is broken like many others but incap is the one you can't break free of the most.
I play both stamnb and meele magnb and ofc I'm using incap on both of them. When i count the times an enemy couldn't break free from my incap I always get to ~66% of the times when I'm using incap. People get pinned on the floor and can't react "fast" enough to break free and defend themselves (i mean 2 gcd most of the time). With how much damage the first burst does and how fast nbs can dish out more damage 90% of all builds are dead because of the bugged stun.
This has to end even without the stun incap and nbs are still one of the most powerful classes in the game and are nowhere near "dead" if people start bringing up that reaction

Izaki

BohnT wrote: »

None of the death stroke morphs need a buff, incap needs it's stun removed.
Incap is completely overperfoming and arguably the best single target ult in the game, as you said the cc combined with high damage, 20% damage increase and major defile + passives.
On top the stun on incap is broken like many others but incap is the one you can't break free of the most.
I play both stamnb and meele magnb and ofc I'm using incap on both of them. When i count the times an enemy couldn't break free from my incap I always get to ~66% of the times when I'm using incap. People get pinned on the floor and can't react "fast" enough to break free and defend themselves (i mean 2 gcd most of the time). With how much damage the first burst does and how fast nbs can dish out more damage 90% of all builds are dead because of the bugged stun.
This has to end even without the stun incap and nbs are still one of the most powerful classes in the game and are nowhere near "dead" if people start bringing up that reaction

Just fix the stun then? You're describing a bug and using it as a reason for a nerf.

Although, I would definitely get behind removing the stun and increasing the empower to 8 seconds for example. Would really help Stamblade in PvE.

BohnT

Izaki wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

None of the death stroke morphs need a buff, incap needs it's stun removed.
Incap is completely overperfoming and arguably the best single target ult in the game, as you said the cc combined with high damage, 20% damage increase and major defile + passives.
On top the stun on incap is broken like many others but incap is the one you can't break free of the most.
I play both stamnb and meele magnb and ofc I'm using incap on both of them. When i count the times an enemy couldn't break free from my incap I always get to ~66% of the times when I'm using incap. People get pinned on the floor and can't react "fast" enough to break free and defend themselves (i mean 2 gcd most of the time). With how much damage the first burst does and how fast nbs can dish out more damage 90% of all builds are dead because of the bugged stun.
This has to end even without the stun incap and nbs are still one of the most powerful classes in the game and are nowhere near "dead" if people start bringing up that reaction

Just fix the stun then? You're describing a bug and using it as a reason for a nerf.

Although, I would definitely get behind removing the stun and increasing the empower to 8 seconds for example. Would really help Stamblade in PvE.

No even with a fixed stun incap is too powerful. I wrote it down in another post about incap why a stun on a high damage ability is a stupid idea.
Stamnb doesn't need more buffs not a single bit, at least not in pvp. PvE is a completely different story but an increase to the bursty nature of stamnb isn't something this game needs, a way of more sustained damage would be fine

JobooAGS

BohnT wrote: »

Izaki wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

None of the death stroke morphs need a buff, incap needs it's stun removed.
Incap is completely overperfoming and arguably the best single target ult in the game, as you said the cc combined with high damage, 20% damage increase and major defile + passives.
On top the stun on incap is broken like many others but incap is the one you can't break free of the most.
I play both stamnb and meele magnb and ofc I'm using incap on both of them. When i count the times an enemy couldn't break free from my incap I always get to ~66% of the times when I'm using incap. People get pinned on the floor and can't react "fast" enough to break free and defend themselves (i mean 2 gcd most of the time). With how much damage the first burst does and how fast nbs can dish out more damage 90% of all builds are dead because of the bugged stun.
This has to end even without the stun incap and nbs are still one of the most powerful classes in the game and are nowhere near "dead" if people start bringing up that reaction

Just fix the stun then? You're describing a bug and using it as a reason for a nerf.

Although, I would definitely get behind removing the stun and increasing the empower to 8 seconds for example. Would really help Stamblade in PvE.

No even with a fixed stun incap is too powerful. I wrote it down in another post about incap why a stun on a high damage ability is a stupid idea.
Stamnb doesn't need more buffs not a single bit, at least not in pvp. PvE is a completely different story but an increase to the bursty nature of stamnb isn't something this game needs, a way of more sustained damage would be fine

then what do you propose? Also since its an ult, should both morphs be undodgable since neither morph would stun

arkansas_ESO

BohnT wrote: »

Izaki wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

None of the death stroke morphs need a buff, incap needs it's stun removed.
Incap is completely overperfoming and arguably the best single target ult in the game, as you said the cc combined with high damage, 20% damage increase and major defile + passives.
On top the stun on incap is broken like many others but incap is the one you can't break free of the most.
I play both stamnb and meele magnb and ofc I'm using incap on both of them. When i count the times an enemy couldn't break free from my incap I always get to ~66% of the times when I'm using incap. People get pinned on the floor and can't react "fast" enough to break free and defend themselves (i mean 2 gcd most of the time). With how much damage the first burst does and how fast nbs can dish out more damage 90% of all builds are dead because of the bugged stun.
This has to end even without the stun incap and nbs are still one of the most powerful classes in the game and are nowhere near "dead" if people start bringing up that reaction

Just fix the stun then? You're describing a bug and using it as a reason for a nerf.

Although, I would definitely get behind removing the stun and increasing the empower to 8 seconds for example. Would really help Stamblade in PvE.

No even with a fixed stun incap is too powerful. I wrote it down in another post about incap why a stun on a high damage ability is a stupid idea.
Stamnb doesn't need more buffs not a single bit, at least not in pvp. PvE is a completely different story but an increase to the bursty nature of stamnb isn't something this game needs, a way of more sustained damage would be fine

Meteor and Dawnbreaker are both high damage and stun on hit, incap isn't an outlier

JobooAGS

arkansas_ESO wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

Izaki wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

None of the death stroke morphs need a buff, incap needs it's stun removed.
Incap is completely overperfoming and arguably the best single target ult in the game, as you said the cc combined with high damage, 20% damage increase and major defile + passives.
On top the stun on incap is broken like many others but incap is the one you can't break free of the most.
I play both stamnb and meele magnb and ofc I'm using incap on both of them. When i count the times an enemy couldn't break free from my incap I always get to ~66% of the times when I'm using incap. People get pinned on the floor and can't react "fast" enough to break free and defend themselves (i mean 2 gcd most of the time). With how much damage the first burst does and how fast nbs can dish out more damage 90% of all builds are dead because of the bugged stun.
This has to end even without the stun incap and nbs are still one of the most powerful classes in the game and are nowhere near "dead" if people start bringing up that reaction

Just fix the stun then? You're describing a bug and using it as a reason for a nerf.

Although, I would definitely get behind removing the stun and increasing the empower to 8 seconds for example. Would really help Stamblade in PvE.

No even with a fixed stun incap is too powerful. I wrote it down in another post about incap why a stun on a high damage ability is a stupid idea.
Stamnb doesn't need more buffs not a single bit, at least not in pvp. PvE is a completely different story but an increase to the bursty nature of stamnb isn't something this game needs, a way of more sustained damage would be fine

Meteor and Dawnbreaker are both high damage and stun on hit, incap isn't an outlier

dawnbreaker is also undodgeable

zParallaxz

It was cheese asf to be cced by fear or malefic wreath and then roll dodge only to be hit by a 7-9k soul harvest. Thank god they fix it.

Koolio

BohnT wrote: »

Izaki wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

None of the death stroke morphs need a buff, incap needs it's stun removed.
Incap is completely overperfoming and arguably the best single target ult in the game, as you said the cc combined with high damage, 20% damage increase and major defile + passives.
On top the stun on incap is broken like many others but incap is the one you can't break free of the most.
I play both stamnb and meele magnb and ofc I'm using incap on both of them. When i count the times an enemy couldn't break free from my incap I always get to ~66% of the times when I'm using incap. People get pinned on the floor and can't react "fast" enough to break free and defend themselves (i mean 2 gcd most of the time). With how much damage the first burst does and how fast nbs can dish out more damage 90% of all builds are dead because of the bugged stun.
This has to end even without the stun incap and nbs are still one of the most powerful classes in the game and are nowhere near "dead" if people start bringing up that reaction

Just fix the stun then? You're describing a bug and using it as a reason for a nerf.

Although, I would definitely get behind removing the stun and increasing the empower to 8 seconds for example. Would really help Stamblade in PvE.

No even with a fixed stun incap is too powerful. I wrote it down in another post about incap why a stun on a high damage ability is a stupid idea.
Stamnb doesn't need more buffs not a single bit, at least not in pvp. PvE is a completely different story but an increase to the bursty nature of stamnb isn't something this game needs, a way of more sustained damage would be fine

Its not an ability it’s an ULTIMATE. Like to compete with meteor the 20k + AOE tooltip AOE stun with a DOT with it that generates more Ultimate than Soul Harvest with Range. Of course it costs more but with all that extra for a little more than double the cost (on Sorc)

What we are talking about is having something else added to Soul harvest on a melee MNB/Ranged MNB to compete with incap which got soul harvest nerfed a few times already. No point to slot this over incap in pvp anymore to fight with.

It’s ok I’ll just continue to Soul assault people from stealth until I can get a working shadow image Siphoning strikes and healing ward again.

JobooAGS

Koolio wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

Izaki wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

None of the death stroke morphs need a buff, incap needs it's stun removed.
Incap is completely overperfoming and arguably the best single target ult in the game, as you said the cc combined with high damage, 20% damage increase and major defile + passives.
On top the stun on incap is broken like many others but incap is the one you can't break free of the most.
I play both stamnb and meele magnb and ofc I'm using incap on both of them. When i count the times an enemy couldn't break free from my incap I always get to ~66% of the times when I'm using incap. People get pinned on the floor and can't react "fast" enough to break free and defend themselves (i mean 2 gcd most of the time). With how much damage the first burst does and how fast nbs can dish out more damage 90% of all builds are dead because of the bugged stun.
This has to end even without the stun incap and nbs are still one of the most powerful classes in the game and are nowhere near "dead" if people start bringing up that reaction

Just fix the stun then? You're describing a bug and using it as a reason for a nerf.

Although, I would definitely get behind removing the stun and increasing the empower to 8 seconds for example. Would really help Stamblade in PvE.

No even with a fixed stun incap is too powerful. I wrote it down in another post about incap why a stun on a high damage ability is a stupid idea.
Stamnb doesn't need more buffs not a single bit, at least not in pvp. PvE is a completely different story but an increase to the bursty nature of stamnb isn't something this game needs, a way of more sustained damage would be fine

Its not an ability it’s an ULTIMATE. Like to compete with meteor the 20k + AOE tooltip AOE stun with a DOT with it that generates more Ultimate than Soul Harvest with Range. Of course it costs more but with all that extra for a little more than double the cost (on Sorc)

What we are talking about is having something else added to Soul harvest on a melee MNB/Ranged MNB to compete with incap which got soul harvest nerfed a few times already. No point to slot this over incap in pvp anymore to fight with.

It’s ok I’ll just continue to Soul assault people from stealth until I can get a working shadow image Siphoning strikes and healing ward again.

nbs also have enough nerfs

BohnT

arkansas_ESO wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

Izaki wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

None of the death stroke morphs need a buff, incap needs it's stun removed.
Incap is completely overperfoming and arguably the best single target ult in the game, as you said the cc combined with high damage, 20% damage increase and major defile + passives.
On top the stun on incap is broken like many others but incap is the one you can't break free of the most.
I play both stamnb and meele magnb and ofc I'm using incap on both of them. When i count the times an enemy couldn't break free from my incap I always get to ~66% of the times when I'm using incap. People get pinned on the floor and can't react "fast" enough to break free and defend themselves (i mean 2 gcd most of the time). With how much damage the first burst does and how fast nbs can dish out more damage 90% of all builds are dead because of the bugged stun.
This has to end even without the stun incap and nbs are still one of the most powerful classes in the game and are nowhere near "dead" if people start bringing up that reaction

Just fix the stun then? You're describing a bug and using it as a reason for a nerf.

Although, I would definitely get behind removing the stun and increasing the empower to 8 seconds for example. Would really help Stamblade in PvE.

No even with a fixed stun incap is too powerful. I wrote it down in another post about incap why a stun on a high damage ability is a stupid idea.
Stamnb doesn't need more buffs not a single bit, at least not in pvp. PvE is a completely different story but an increase to the bursty nature of stamnb isn't something this game needs, a way of more sustained damage would be fine

Meteor and Dawnbreaker are both high damage and stun on hit, incap isn't an outlier

None of them applies 20% damage taken major defile and are way more expensive + the classes utilising those skills can't dishout burst the same way nb does.

Waffennacht

How about remove things from incap to bring it line with Soul?

Bum bum bum!

NyassaV

Please try and stay on topic. It's not my fault you can't block/dodge incap.

Having this skill be undodgable was rather nice, but it's a bug so W/E. However there is now no interesting choice people are forced to make. Incap is clearly the better morph in almost every case.I recall @ZOS_Wrobel wanted to force people to make interesting choices, this is one such choice. Personally I am annoyed they decided to touch this skill while there are many things in the game that should be dodgable, that are not. Power lash for the DK cannot be dodged either. There are even some skills like power extraction/steel tornado/blade cloak that should not be dodgable yet they are. Soul Harvest is a nightblade's only undodgable skill that (As I said power extraction/sap can be dodged for whatever reason). Templars have jabs. The sorc has lightning form (and morphs), mages furry and curse. DK has spikes and powerlash. And finally Warden has shalks and bird spam... OMG bird spam, and you are taking away soul harvest and not touching other skills?

There needs to be something added to compensate. I'd be happy would soul harvest going back down to 50 in cost (incap remains 70). While it's current function is a bug I wouldn't mind keeping it, it made choosing between them a meaningful choice.Maybe the Debuff it applies would last 2 seconds longer than incap's. Maybe made the damage dodgable but the Debuff would still apply.

Something of this sort. Thank you

JobooAGS

BohnT wrote: »

arkansas_ESO wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

Izaki wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

None of the death stroke morphs need a buff, incap needs it's stun removed.
Incap is completely overperfoming and arguably the best single target ult in the game, as you said the cc combined with high damage, 20% damage increase and major defile + passives.
On top the stun on incap is broken like many others but incap is the one you can't break free of the most.
I play both stamnb and meele magnb and ofc I'm using incap on both of them. When i count the times an enemy couldn't break free from my incap I always get to ~66% of the times when I'm using incap. People get pinned on the floor and can't react "fast" enough to break free and defend themselves (i mean 2 gcd most of the time). With how much damage the first burst does and how fast nbs can dish out more damage 90% of all builds are dead because of the bugged stun.
This has to end even without the stun incap and nbs are still one of the most powerful classes in the game and are nowhere near "dead" if people start bringing up that reaction

Just fix the stun then? You're describing a bug and using it as a reason for a nerf.

Although, I would definitely get behind removing the stun and increasing the empower to 8 seconds for example. Would really help Stamblade in PvE.

No even with a fixed stun incap is too powerful. I wrote it down in another post about incap why a stun on a high damage ability is a stupid idea.
Stamnb doesn't need more buffs not a single bit, at least not in pvp. PvE is a completely different story but an increase to the bursty nature of stamnb isn't something this game needs, a way of more sustained damage would be fine

Meteor and Dawnbreaker are both high damage and stun on hit, incap isn't an outlier

None of them applies 20% damage taken major defile and are way more expensive + the classes utilising those skills can't dishout burst the same way nb does.

incap is single target, the other 2 are aoe. plus warden uses db and look how many nerf threads they have because of their high BURST

BohnT

Koolio wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

Izaki wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

None of the death stroke morphs need a buff, incap needs it's stun removed.
Incap is completely overperfoming and arguably the best single target ult in the game, as you said the cc combined with high damage, 20% damage increase and major defile + passives.
On top the stun on incap is broken like many others but incap is the one you can't break free of the most.
I play both stamnb and meele magnb and ofc I'm using incap on both of them. When i count the times an enemy couldn't break free from my incap I always get to ~66% of the times when I'm using incap. People get pinned on the floor and can't react "fast" enough to break free and defend themselves (i mean 2 gcd most of the time). With how much damage the first burst does and how fast nbs can dish out more damage 90% of all builds are dead because of the bugged stun.
This has to end even without the stun incap and nbs are still one of the most powerful classes in the game and are nowhere near "dead" if people start bringing up that reaction

Just fix the stun then? You're describing a bug and using it as a reason for a nerf.

Although, I would definitely get behind removing the stun and increasing the empower to 8 seconds for example. Would really help Stamblade in PvE.

No even with a fixed stun incap is too powerful. I wrote it down in another post about incap why a stun on a high damage ability is a stupid idea.
Stamnb doesn't need more buffs not a single bit, at least not in pvp. PvE is a completely different story but an increase to the bursty nature of stamnb isn't something this game needs, a way of more sustained damage would be fine

Its not an ability it’s an ULTIMATE. Like to compete with meteor the 20k + AOE tooltip AOE stun with a DOT with it that generates more Ultimate than Soul Harvest with Range. Of course it costs more but with all that extra for a little more than double the cost (on Sorc)

What we are talking about is having something else added to Soul harvest on a melee MNB/Ranged MNB to compete with incap which got soul harvest nerfed a few times already. No point to slot this over incap in pvp anymore to fight with.

It’s ok I’ll just continue to Soul assault people from stealth until I can get a working shadow image Siphoning strikes and healing ward again.

If you think that meteor is the better ult then ask yourself one question, why do people don't use meteor on their nbs maybe because 20% damage taken and major defile is much better than a crappy ground dot?

Heresyall

The issue like @NightbladeMechanics said is soul harvest being really weak compare to Incap due to the stun and the possible combo with merciless .
Also others Magnb Ult are nowadays really bad , soul tether hitting like a wet noodle compares to others aoe ultimates like meteor/dawnbreaker/leap and healing for almost nothing in the current major defile meta.
Let's not talk about "Veil of Blade" with his 5 meters radius and 200 cost , almost 3 years (since 1.6) that this ultimate is trash.

JobooAGS

BohnT wrote: »

Koolio wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

Izaki wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

None of the death stroke morphs need a buff, incap needs it's stun removed.
Incap is completely overperfoming and arguably the best single target ult in the game, as you said the cc combined with high damage, 20% damage increase and major defile + passives.
On top the stun on incap is broken like many others but incap is the one you can't break free of the most.
I play both stamnb and meele magnb and ofc I'm using incap on both of them. When i count the times an enemy couldn't break free from my incap I always get to ~66% of the times when I'm using incap. People get pinned on the floor and can't react "fast" enough to break free and defend themselves (i mean 2 gcd most of the time). With how much damage the first burst does and how fast nbs can dish out more damage 90% of all builds are dead because of the bugged stun.
This has to end even without the stun incap and nbs are still one of the most powerful classes in the game and are nowhere near "dead" if people start bringing up that reaction

Just fix the stun then? You're describing a bug and using it as a reason for a nerf.

Although, I would definitely get behind removing the stun and increasing the empower to 8 seconds for example. Would really help Stamblade in PvE.

No even with a fixed stun incap is too powerful. I wrote it down in another post about incap why a stun on a high damage ability is a stupid idea.
Stamnb doesn't need more buffs not a single bit, at least not in pvp. PvE is a completely different story but an increase to the bursty nature of stamnb isn't something this game needs, a way of more sustained damage would be fine

Its not an ability it’s an ULTIMATE. Like to compete with meteor the 20k + AOE tooltip AOE stun with a DOT with it that generates more Ultimate than Soul Harvest with Range. Of course it costs more but with all that extra for a little more than double the cost (on Sorc)

What we are talking about is having something else added to Soul harvest on a melee MNB/Ranged MNB to compete with incap which got soul harvest nerfed a few times already. No point to slot this over incap in pvp anymore to fight with.

It’s ok I’ll just continue to Soul assault people from stealth until I can get a working shadow image Siphoning strikes and healing ward again.

If you think that meteor is the better ult then ask yourself one question, why do people don't use meteor on their nbs maybe because 20% damage taken and major defile is much better than a crappy ground dot?

single target vs aoe is one reason

Koolio

BohnT wrote: »

Koolio wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

Izaki wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

None of the death stroke morphs need a buff, incap needs it's stun removed.
Incap is completely overperfoming and arguably the best single target ult in the game, as you said the cc combined with high damage, 20% damage increase and major defile + passives.
On top the stun on incap is broken like many others but incap is the one you can't break free of the most.
I play both stamnb and meele magnb and ofc I'm using incap on both of them. When i count the times an enemy couldn't break free from my incap I always get to ~66% of the times when I'm using incap. People get pinned on the floor and can't react "fast" enough to break free and defend themselves (i mean 2 gcd most of the time). With how much damage the first burst does and how fast nbs can dish out more damage 90% of all builds are dead because of the bugged stun.
This has to end even without the stun incap and nbs are still one of the most powerful classes in the game and are nowhere near "dead" if people start bringing up that reaction

Just fix the stun then? You're describing a bug and using it as a reason for a nerf.

Although, I would definitely get behind removing the stun and increasing the empower to 8 seconds for example. Would really help Stamblade in PvE.

No even with a fixed stun incap is too powerful. I wrote it down in another post about incap why a stun on a high damage ability is a stupid idea.
Stamnb doesn't need more buffs not a single bit, at least not in pvp. PvE is a completely different story but an increase to the bursty nature of stamnb isn't something this game needs, a way of more sustained damage would be fine

Its not an ability it’s an ULTIMATE. Like to compete with meteor the 20k + AOE tooltip AOE stun with a DOT with it that generates more Ultimate than Soul Harvest with Range. Of course it costs more but with all that extra for a little more than double the cost (on Sorc)

What we are talking about is having something else added to Soul harvest on a melee MNB/Ranged MNB to compete with incap which got soul harvest nerfed a few times already. No point to slot this over incap in pvp anymore to fight with.

It’s ok I’ll just continue to Soul assault people from stealth until I can get a working shadow image Siphoning strikes and healing ward again.

If you think that meteor is the better ult then ask yourself one question, why do people don't use meteor on their nbs maybe because 20% damage taken and major defile is much better than a crappy ground dot?

It could be that you get Death Stroke at level 12 (skill line) and meteor takes days to farm lore books/Daily quests.

BohnT

JobooAGS wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

arkansas_ESO wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

Izaki wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

None of the death stroke morphs need a buff, incap needs it's stun removed.
Incap is completely overperfoming and arguably the best single target ult in the game, as you said the cc combined with high damage, 20% damage increase and major defile + passives.
On top the stun on incap is broken like many others but incap is the one you can't break free of the most.
I play both stamnb and meele magnb and ofc I'm using incap on both of them. When i count the times an enemy couldn't break free from my incap I always get to ~66% of the times when I'm using incap. People get pinned on the floor and can't react "fast" enough to break free and defend themselves (i mean 2 gcd most of the time). With how much damage the first burst does and how fast nbs can dish out more damage 90% of all builds are dead because of the bugged stun.
This has to end even without the stun incap and nbs are still one of the most powerful classes in the game and are nowhere near "dead" if people start bringing up that reaction

Just fix the stun then? You're describing a bug and using it as a reason for a nerf.

Although, I would definitely get behind removing the stun and increasing the empower to 8 seconds for example. Would really help Stamblade in PvE.

No even with a fixed stun incap is too powerful. I wrote it down in another post about incap why a stun on a high damage ability is a stupid idea.
Stamnb doesn't need more buffs not a single bit, at least not in pvp. PvE is a completely different story but an increase to the bursty nature of stamnb isn't something this game needs, a way of more sustained damage would be fine

Meteor and Dawnbreaker are both high damage and stun on hit, incap isn't an outlier

None of them applies 20% damage taken major defile and are way more expensive + the classes utilising those skills can't dishout burst the same way nb does.

incap is single target, the other 2 are aoe. plus warden uses db and look how many nerf threads they have because of their high BURST

Warden nerf threads are here because they are completely overtuned, just like incap.
If you think dawnbreaker or meteor are better than incap, go ahead and slot them, you'll see how wrong you are