Collecting together all the proposals for revitalizing Cyrodiil
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Kaeriz
✭✭✭
Well howdy.
So I've lurked for a long time in all of the threads surrounding the various proposals to revitalize pvp, and I wanted to take some time to - as the title says - collect them all together in the hopes that developers will finally offer some kind of comment. Perhaps I'm being naive or unreasonably hopeful, but given that I've uninstalled the game several times over only to come right back to it, I have to personally try and call developer attention to the game I truly and obsessively love. ESO, I wish I knew how to quit you.
My aim is to organize all the threads and comments into categories while linking back to the original thread. I'll admit that my laziness and desire for fidelity to these original and well-thought out ideas has prevented me from summarizing them, and all I've really done is some minor editing. Laziness has also resulted in not linking comment quotes that weren't from original post and poster, so forgive me if I don't link to your feedback beyond giving you @ credit and, in fact, spamming many of you with @ credits
Also, apologies if I wind up misrepresenting your comments. I'm doing my best and will gladly edit. Consequently, this post will be quite lengthy, hence the spoilers to allow more readability. I should also say the obvious that none of these ideas are mine. I've done my best to provide a starting point in this collection. The only input I'm offering is what I have personally deemed to be the most developed and well-thought out ideas, regardless of whether I agree or disagree with them. Of course, I need to have seen them too 
Ideally, this provokes discussion on refining all the ideas that could result in realistic one-stop shopping for the developers. My intent is that the pvp community will ultimately be the authors of this thread collectively, and I will edit the original posts with suggestions that originate from this thread without all the guff. My thought is that for every idea that three people endorse, we could have a poll that would allow the larger pvp community to have ultimate say so in the inclusion - or omission - of that particular idea. Of course, I'm open to suggestions on how to better proceed, formatting changes, whatever. Also, if there are threads that you'd like revived here, comments you'd like to add, please offer in the below and I will include if another endorses the thread. This is by no means an exhaustive list.
Lastly, I haven't done anything to organize the feedback on gameplay mechanics, though I know we all agree at the least that the faction stacks and negate/destro/earthgore meta is played out and boring. I'm happy to add this category on gameplay mechanics if people provide feedback in this thread and find some consensus.
Without further prologue:
I. Revitalizing and actually using the entirety of the Map
II. Scoring Mechanics
a. Revisit the scoring system to encourage spreading out @Ghost-Shot suggests: "The everything is worth 1 point score system needs to go, there is no reason to spread out to different places on the map when none of those locations are actually valuable targets. I have come up with some numbers that I think would be good for score values, would love to hear what everyone thinks about them:
Tri-keeps (Rayles/Wraden/Glademist ) = 5 points each
Tri-keep resources = 2 points each
Dragon/Drake/Brindle and their resources = 3 points each
Emp ring keeps & resources = 2 points for home keeps, 1 point for enemy keeps
Outposts = 2 points each
Towns = 5 points each
Scrolls = 10 points each
Provided proper rewards are implemented for winning a campaign, having higher value targets deep in enemy territory would help spreading people out on the map, you are still going to have the frontline zerg on the ring (it’s never going away, just accept that) but you will also have the more organized forces all over the place." @Vilestride makes a similar point: "I am not saying go back to what it was, but making everything worth the same eliminates the versatility in what you are contributing with your group. Small scale players will default to taking smaller objectives. They will in turn be met with other small scale players. If they are met by large groups at the least its going to have a detrimental effect to the factions score for a 24 man group to waste their time at these kinds of objectives."
b. Make Scrolls Great Again @NBrookus makes a pinpoint suggestion: "Scrolls should have a bigger impact on score, but not give the faction that has them combat buffs."
III. Rewards for the Worthy, Campaign Rewards, and AP
a. Make AP more related to AVA objectives@sirinsidiator has in mind reorienting AP gain so that it encourages active participation in the alliance war instead of individual play. "Each player should get an amount of AP at the end of a scoring period based on their alliances performance and their individual performance," he suggests. "The AP reward is a base amount of AP plus bonus AP multiplied by the percentage of campaign score) scaled by the time spent playing during that scoring period and a population modifier. The base AP give players something to buy siege equipment with, even when their alliance is loosing. Bonus AP are awarded for doing certain things that help the war effort and are described below. They are scaled by the amount of campaign score that is obtained compared to the theoretical maximum by having control over all objectives. Low population bonus and underdog bonus also count towards it and can give a boost to alliances that are falling behind, making it much more interesting for players to play on underpopulated campaigns. The scaling by amount of time is to also reward players that leave before the scoring time and to prevent players from gaining AP when they are idle. Last but not least the population modifier is to give some control over how many AP are awarded on low population campaigns and to prevent players from gaining too many AP just by staying online during the night. The bonus AP consist of a base bonus plus the sum of all AP in the bonus categories - where each category is capped at a certain amount to prevent farming - multiplied by a modifier that depends on how many medals a player has. Medals are awarded for having the most AP in a certain category (editor's note: he suggests categories such as killing blows, overall damage, overall healing, players resurrected, AvA quests completed, distance covered during a scroll run, etc.) The AP limit for the bonus AP does not apply for this check."
Furthermore, he proposes overhauling the AvA quests:
"Keep quests are either attack a keep or defend a keep depending on the situation. If multiple keeps are under attack, they should be handed out based on certain criteria:
Scouting quests should be turned into real scouting. They allow players to report enemy movements and show them on the map for the whole alliance to see.
The player gets offered to use the scout report action like in the current quest as soon as he tab targets an enemy player or siege, which makes him go out of stealth and write the report. It should also be possible to write reports near an enemy keep or inside an owned keep, which will show the state of all walls in that location to the alliance. Other players can kill the scout in that time, otherwise the whole alliance sees a map marker that indicates how many players/sieges have been spotted in that location.
Kill quests in their current form are useless and should be changed in order to be more useful and dynamic. Instead of requiring killing players anywhere they should be specific to a certain location and time. For example when a keep is under attack, the kill quest requires players to kill enemies that are in a certain distance to the keep (not too close and not too far).
Resource quests should be also changed to make players systematically attack important resources near the battlefield. For example when a keep is cut off, the quests directs players to recapture that resource, or when an enemy keep is to be attacked by the alliance, the resource quests lead players to the resources of said keep.
Scroll quests should also be updated so that the warlords don't hand out scroll quests randomly and the scroll quest should also be offered as a world event (like with the quests at trials) to make it easier for players running with the scroll to get them.
b. Bring back something similar to Pelinal's Boxes @Agrippa_Invisus suggested restoring the Pelinal's Boxes and junking the armor. He commented "it should not be a chore to deal with your rewards; it should be rewarding and fun." The community resoundingly endorsed this idea. @Solariken commented that it need not be as good as the boxes were during the event, but "a little gold, a chance at siege equipment and repairs, a few herbs, upgrade materials, etc. Please no more garbage gear that I have to waste time deconstructing." @LonePirate suggested that the books be replaced with furniture plans or furnishings. @NightbladeMechanics commented "remove tel var and Hakeijos, reduce drop chances on motifs slightly to preserve the markets long term, add in some more housing items, increase alchemy mat drops, and add in all the unrepresented types of siege." @NBrookus suggested that "the motifs could be dropped altogether." @rmerlb16_ESO added "no Telvar. These should be an incentive for people to play IC." A few added that a little less cold fire and camps would also help
c. Reintroduce Master and/or vMA to campaign victory rewards Elsewhere, @NightbladeMechanics and quite a number of others have suggested "reintroducing Master or vMA weapons to end of campaign victory rewards, or creating a new type of 1pc weapon that amplifies Alliance War abilities." @Ghost-Shot echoes this suggestion: "Malestrom/Master weapons, or at least some alternative, need to be available by some means through PvP. In the past, we had a chance to get Master weapons from the end of campaign rewards, that would be a good way to start if you are opposed to directly purchasing them for a huge amount of AP. PvEers complain all the time about having to PvP for things like vigor and caltrops so they were made easier for them to obtain, why don’t we get the same treatment?"
d. Moar tiers @Ghost-Shot in the same thread: "add two more tiers to end of campaign rewards, tier 4 at 500k AP, tier 5 at 1 million AP. Tier 4 would put your rewards up to 75k gold, 5 pieces of epic gear, and a full stack of repair kits. Tier 5 gets you 150k gold, 5 gold items, a stack of wall repairs and a stack of door repairs, if your alliance wins the campaign. I’m not entirely sure about this one, but maybe when an alliance wins a campaign, the following cycle the get a 10% AP earned bonus. I realize this seems like huge rewards but if you want people to care, the incentive has to be there."
f. Make AP Great Again ... or actually just worth something @RandomName123 : "- Make AP worth something. Like AP to buy some mats, either raw material or upgrade material, but at fairly high costs."
g. Untether rewards to home campaign @NightbladeMechanics suggests a larger undertaking in revamping rewards, no longer tethering them to a particular campaign: "I want ZOS to massively rework end of campaign reward mails and end of campaign victory mails, making them actually strongly desired, and then awarding us with a mail from every campaign in which we earned some baseline percentage of our total AP earned during its duration. Let's say for example there are 4 campaigns. If ZOS rewards mails for any campaign in which you earned at least 15% of your total AP earned during that campaign's duration, then you'd have 60% of your total AP earned evenly among the campaigns, and then the remaining 40% left to earn in whichever campaign you decide to home. This would of course mean doing away with guest campaigns entirely and allowing us to queue ourselves into whichever campaign we want without limits. The idea is to give us full mobility between campaigns and then rewarding us for playing spread out among them."
IV. Emperor Mechanics
a. Holding emp = two keeps I can't track down the specific thread(s), but it's certainly been proposed that emp should require control of at least two keeps to reduce the horrific tri-faction stacking lag. @Satiar has commented on this: "Best way to change it: make it so that you have to hold TWO keeps to hold emp."
b. Tie emp buffs to number of keeps held @Joy_Division : "The Empress’s buffs are tied to how many home keeps she controls. Having all six makes her stronger than currently, having less makes her progressively weaker. If the Empress loses a home scroll she is disgraced and is removed from her throne. (now there are two dethrone mechanics to help alleviate the last empress keep lag. She is stronger initially because it’s a lot harder to defend)."
c. Emp must claim another keep within an hour when down to last keep @JDar :To address "nightmare scenario of turtling in keeps at the expense of all other objectives and the game's very playability": Put a timer on when the emperor is down to his or her last keep. If at that point, the emperor's faction does not capture two more emperor keeps within an hour, then the emperor is dethroned regardless."
d. Emp gauge @Telel : "This one has also long said that reworking the emperor mechanic to include more map control would also be nice. Not just holding keeps but actually controlling other points on the maps like the small towns, certain delves, choke points, etc. Then have it operate more like flag flipping but on a huge scale. E.G the more map spots you control the faster the emp gauge fills up. Once it's full someone gets Emperor until it drops below a certain amount."
e. Lock emping to 8 hour division to prevent nightcapping @Crispen_Longbow suggests the following: "Create campaigns that are locked to 8 hour scouring periods. Also tie it to Emp crowning. You can only crown an Emp while scoring is open.
Trueflame
5:00PM - 1:00AM EST (Scoring Open / Emp Crowning Active)
1:00AM - 9:00AM EST (Scoring & Emp Crowning Closed)
9:00AM - 5:00PM EST (Scoring & Emp Crowning Closed)
Haderus
5:00PM - 1:00AM EST (Scoring & Emp Crowning Closed)
1:00AM - 9:00AM EST (Scoring Open / Emp Crowning Active)
9:00AM - 5:00PM EST (Scoring & Emp Crowning Closed)
Azuras Star
5:00PM - 1:00AM EST (Scoring & Emp Crowning Closed)
1:00AM - 9:00AM EST (Scoring & Emp Crowning Closed)
9:00AM - 5:00PM EST (Scoring Open / Emp Crowning Active)
f. Balance pop the reducing caps outside of NA prime time @IxSTALKERxI commented on the above:"The problem with that is only a 3rd of the prime time population can participate in the alliance war (presuming 3 times more players play during prime time than the other times) due to not everyone being able to fit into trueflame.
With the scoring restriction based on time - I was thinking of something similar but using it to balance server population rather than just scoring.
I don't have any actual data, but here are some made up population/server numbers to show an example:
A server can hold 150 AD, 150 EP and 150 DC.
During 5:00PM - 1:00AM EST - 450 players play on each faction a cross all servers (total of 1350)
During 1:00AM - 9:00AM EST - 150 players play on each faction a cross all servers (total of 450)
During 9:00AM - 5:00PM EST - 150 players play on each faction a cross all servers (total of 450)
This means you could have:
Trueflame - open 24/7 with 150 players on all 3 factions 24/7.
Haderus - open 5:00PM - 1:00AM EST with 150 players on all 3 factions
Azura - open 5:00PM - 1:00AM EST with 150 players on all 3 factions"
V. Imperial City and Sewers
Kena's plan to make IC great again Quoting directly from Kena:
"Primary Goals:
Methods to Achieve Goals:
place many objectives relatively close to each other
place objectives outside of the usual lanes of travel
This incentivizes hitting the objective, capturing it, and moving on to assault other objectives instead of passively defending for points
20 minutes? 10 minutes? Not sure where this should fall to encourage fighting over objectives without overworking the servers:
scaling tel var farm bonus for every objective that your faction owns in IC + valuable items at the tel var vendor
PvP objective flags -- not boss objectives -- CAN NOT GIVE AP TICKS
District Objectives:
2+ objectives per district
districts may have different numbers of objectives from each other
players may climb sewer base ladders into districts only if they own at least half of that district's objectives
players may respawn in the district in which they die if they own at least half of that district's objectives
players have a respawn timer like with forward camps
scale the roaming district bosses to fight groups of 12-16 or more, and award the members of the killing faction within that district an offensive tick that scales off of enemy deaths to the boss and to allies in that district during the fight
Sewer Objectives:
each objective in the dead end areas just outside of center gives a buff where you earn 1 AP for every 5 tel var that you collect for each of these objectives that your faction owns
tick for enemy deaths in the fight
scale the travelling flag bosses to fight groups of 10-12, and award members of the killing faction who were in immediate combat with the boss an offensive tick for enemy deaths in the fight as well as a 15 minute Minor Expedition buff
Molag Bal -- the big man himself -- NO TICK -- instead, Mr. Bal calls off his daedric army such that no mobs or bosses within IC aggro against members of the killing faction for 15 minutes unless attacked first
Ok I lied -- I only have one pitchur
Blue star: PvP objective flag (except for Molag Bal. He gets to be a blue star too, woops!)
Blue star with circle: PvP objective flag that's more valuable than the other objectives
Red dot: world boss
Black arrow: district ladder
Other random ideas I've had since posting this:
What if players could purchase tools or traps unique to the Imperial city for use only in IC? I'm thinking things like traps or spell scrolls that summon daedric slaves or lay down a patch of fire on the ground or create a big obstacle that everyone then has to play around. It's a rough idea. I'll have to sleep on it.
VI. Increasing interest in PVP for PVErs
a. Give node benefits outside of cyrodiil @NightbladeMechanics solicited feedback from pve'ers directly: "I asked some PvEers what ZOS could do to increase their interest in PvP, and one said "what if owning a region in Cyrodiil gave benefits to your faction outside of Cyrodiil, like if you own certain keeps as EP, you get double node drops in Shadowfen?"
b. Reduce the gear barriers to competing in Cyrodiil @Lexxypwns : "What about the fact that you need different gear for pvp? I know we can't homogenize all encounters so 1 set of gear fits every situation, but new players come to pvp and die near instantly because they're not running impen, enough sustain, whatever. Perhaps a vendor that allows you to "borrow" blue gear while in cyrodiil. You hop in cyro and go to vendor X and get your impen gear in a small selection of sets for stam/mag/tanks. This gear can't be re-enchanted, traded, upgraded, modified in any way, or used outside cyrodiil." Adding in this thread: "I stand by the accessibility of PVP needing to be changed so that you don't have to farm X hours or spend weeks/months on crafting research just to try out a game mode properly."
c. Make crit resistance a component of Battle Spirit @NightbladeMechanics : Relatedly, understanding that the lack of impen gear is what often makes the PVE-PVP transition difficult, Kena proposes "nerfing impen, Transmutation, and Impregnable and then adding a base crit resistance to Battle Spirit ... you could even go the route of nerfing impen and the base crit damage modifier and leaving Trans, Impreg, and CPs alone. I think you see the point, though. Pull crit resistance out of stuff, put into Battle Spirit, PvEers profit."
d. Give the town merchants PVE gear @kylewwefan : "If the golden or the towns elite gear merchant constantly had legendary SPC, Worm, Ebon, Willpower etc....I know quite a few that would be in Cyrodil way more often." Editor's note: I know these are still popular PVP sets, but I've included for sake of perhaps adding pve sets to the town elite gear merchants. Apologies if I'm reappropriating your idea.
e. resource gathering quests @CavalryPK : "mini quest the sends you to a random location on the map to gather resources for you alliance - this will make the farmers, traders and crafters come the pvp in order to get resources (crafting mats for armor or furniture). "
f. No more baggin'[ @anitajoneb17_ESO : "I know the rage tells, the teabagging, the taunting and all the crap that's going on in PvP is part of a culture, a code, and doesn't mean things as literally as they seem to be to outsiders. Yet I still believe it's make-up for real toxicity and agressivity. Also, you have to realize and become conscious of how horrible and sick it all looks from the outside. So my point is : if you (by "you" I mean, the PvP community) want to keep those habits and behaviours, keep that "code" among yourselves, then fine, do it. But if the issue is to *attract* people from the outside (PvE'rs), as is suggested by this thread, in order to refill the population in Cyrodiil, that's something that you really, really need to reconsider. It's off-putting to an extent that you've simply forgotten over time. Normal people don't enjoy agressivity, even in a competitive environment. Simple as that."
g. Scroll and enemy keeps confer bonuses outside of Cyrodiil @asneakybanana : "reintroducing the benefit of scroll bonuses and enemy keep bonuses applying outside of cyro. This will encourage players from outside cyro to venture into PvP and participate in fighting for their faction. Also, I think it would be cool if there were special events in PvP once every week or every other week and the winning faction would get some bonus outside of campaign scoring and ap. Imagine it like the node wars and fights for castles in BDO where you get a % of the gold earned in the area that your guild holds. Could do something along the lines of that where if your faction wins you get a week long 5% gold/ap/exp buff. Sure this may end up getting zergy but it could be very interesting seeing strategy alliances play out, especially if there are 3 nodes to fight over between the 3 factions. Also, another thing that could make things interesting is creating a sort of PvP raid boss/ world boss system. Similar to molag bol in the sewers but much harder hitting, much better rewards, and much harder to kill. Give the boss like 200m health and have him do large high damage aoe attacks and make it so that the reward is something similar to maelstrom or master weapons where it's a super low chance to receive something good but farming for that piece of gear will help you a lot in the end. Make a server wide notification that he is spawning and have him spawn every 2-5 days to make it not an every day occurrence. (Yes I got this idea from world bosses in BDO). I think this would help with more consistent population because people won't want to potentially miss out on their chance at gear they need so they will be more likely to be already sitting in cyro."
h. Stop farming pugs @zyk : "What I see from some highly coordinated small groups I encounter is hours spent every day fighting unorganized mobs of mostly casual players. I fight along these players and they tend to melt. They don't know the tactics -- which is why the fall for the same old tricks. I've used this analogy before. If a good CS clan were to fight with each other on a public server against randoms, they'd *easily* win every time and be considered jerks for it. Very quickly, they would find their opponents leave and their server empty. It is inherently toxic for organized gamers to look for "juicy" opponents they outclass. It impedes growth. The same goes for all games. Without a reasonable opportunity for even competition, the game dies. This is why all other competitive mediums are segmented based on aptitude. No one would get into competitive sports if this segmentation did not exist." @CyrusArya responded: "You make it out as if small scale groups go out of their way and forcibly coerce players to chase them. This is not the case. People chase small scalers down and go out of their way to engage when they perceive a numerical advantage. Because they think they will win. And you know what? Some of those times they are right. Some of those time they are wrong. It's a two way relationship, so spare me the lecture. Furthermore, it is not nearly as easy as you make it out to be. Players don't have to be fodder to be a threat in large enough numbers, and groups in general (pug or otherwise) are not nearly as incompetent as you like to believe."
i. Stop charging for CP respecs and skill remorphs @waitwhat : "Also make CP respecs and re-morphing zero-cost. 3k gold multiple times per-day (more if re-morphing) really cramps switching between the two, more so for those newer to the game without large cash-reserves/steady income. It is extremely inconvenient to do both PvE and PvP on the same character, and that probably deters the new blood just at the point where they would be getting in to Cyrodiil." Editor's note: adding that single skill remorphs through the skill window would be peachy too
j. High yield resource nodes in Cyrodiil @Satiar : "Imagine: in the middle of the 3 trikeeps there's a resource rich area. Tons of flowers, or tons of mining. Imagine crafting/trade guilds setting up shop there, enemy guilds making raids on the area. You could get an entire pve/pvp ecosystem there, guilds raiding or providing protection, trade guilds forming alliances with pvp guide for protection or to obtain resources.... just one half-baked idea but still! It can't just be AP, it was never enough. Not to create an interconnected pvp community."
k. Give worthwhile loot to Cyrodiil PVE @RandomName123 : "- Make some random mobs in the PvP overworld much stronger and drop worth-while loot, like nice gear sets, random mats, cosmetic skins, or gold tempers/tannins. These are mobs already in the world, like the trolls by one of the keeps, that one-off gargoyle that is in the middle of nowhere, that really small random fenced-in graveyard full of ghosts, that one mountain lion that you can't damage or that dragon thing guarding the raised bridge to IC. These exact mobs are already placed in Cyrodiil. Make these hard fights, and require 5-10 people over like five minutes. Somewhat like the group bosses in PvE, but more of a raid. This might produce PvPvE raid parties in less used parts of the cyrodiil overland map."
l. Moar motifs @Apherius : "introduce more Motif that we can buy with AP."
VII. Uncategorized suggestions
a. Get rid of the campaigns introduced during Midyear Mayhem @Anazasi has suggested addressing the increasingly vacating primary campaign: "I think an immediate fix would be eliminating the campaigns that were created for the pvp event." Similarly, @SanTii.92 "Removing the two extra campaigns would be a nice place to start." @NightbladeMechanics agrees: "they need to close some campaigns for sure, but I would also like to see incentives to play in all of the campaigns, not just your home campaign. Do away with guest campaigns already, and let us play in all of them."
b. Reduce group size @Derra : "Reduce groupsize. Large groups put up a huge barrier people have to overcome to participate. The smaller the amount of people needed - the easier it is to get people to try to participate. It´s easier to grab 5 friends out of a guild and form a semi functional group than it is to grab 15. It also places more focus on guilds (multiple groups organised within the guild) and less one large group. It´s a disincentive to run purgebots/rapidbots in group that put you at a huge advantage over "normal" players/builds." Commenting on the above, however, @Kilandros "Artificially trying to promote smaller group play by capping group size won't change anything. The only way to get small scale action to make a return is by reining back the balance changes that have made numbers the dominant meta. Parties of 5 can still stack together to steamroll a single Party of 5" @Derra responded: "The core argument is: Finding 5 people to play with is easier than finding 15. Pvp needs to be accessible. Largescale pvp is the main goal for cyrodiil - yet it´s the most inaccessible form of pvp there is. It´s not about changing how people play. It´s about getting them to play in the first place and having it as accessible as possible." @NightbladeMechanics commented: "This is.....a very interesting and compelling argument. I too love unorganized large scale PvP -- "unorganized" meaning no ball groups present, just a big siege with mostly small groups and pugs and maybe a few large groups who don't ball up on each other and roll over everyone else, with several skirmishes happening at the same time all over and around the keep." @Vilestride responde: "Drop group to 5 and say goodbye to the casual PvPer who just wants to zerg surf a while ... As for 'Zergballs', I am going to assume you mean organised raids. IMO it will make them stronger than ever before ... Believe me, I and my guild mates don't need a crown to follow our leader ... The only threat to an organised guild is other organised guilds. If you make it inherently harder to organise groups, the gap between top tier and mid/lower tier guilds will widen, not close." @NightbladeMechanics : "I definitely do think that cutting the group cap would result in groupless pugs just hording together even worse than they already do, and leaving organized, skilled players more helpless to deal with them. As much lag as organized large groups create, they do keep the pug tides in check. If ZOS were to reduce the group cap, they'd have to create some very strong positive incentives to spread people out, such as new objectives around the edges of the map that actually contribute to the campaign and reward the players who travel to and fight for them with meaningful and desirable rewards." @Agrippa_Invisus : "IMO, the group size should never, ever have been allowed to be greater than what the PVE content allows - 12. Universal group sizes also allows for easier transition between the two activities. A 20 man PVP raid can't convert easily into two 12 man raids for PVE content, but a 12 man can just step out without re-organization and switch between the two with ease."
c. Moar events@gibous : "A more regular calendar of events - why not have a double AP weekend once a month?"
d. Make taking a keep difficult again @Vilestride : "When the game launched taking keeps meant hour long sieges, epic back and forth battles. Now it means setting up your 20/20 on a door (which is easy to do with as little as 8 people), getting in and flipping flags before anyone gets there. This should not be possible. Lengthen the time taken to siege down walls and doors. Make taking a keep a real challenge that is almost impossible unless your faction actually implements tactics that involve all sized groups, again, bringing back the need for variety of group sizes. Honestly me and my 16 man raid shouldn't be able to take ales from DC unless we have small scale groups cutting its transit, optimally glademist transit to and then stalling incoming DC from any other transit routes as well as harassing counter-siege where they can."
e. Just like ya did for PVErs, stop making PVPers grind content they may not enjoy @zyk : "A big reason PVP focused players quit ESO and never return is because of the PVE item grind. Players into open world AvA PVP probably don't want to spend dozens or hundreds of hours grinding 4-12 player PVE instances to remain competitive. To better retain players, change the itemization dynamics so PVP players can progress their characters by doing what they enjoy: PVP."
f. Reduce lag and improve performance @literallyeverysinglepersonwhopvps : reduce lag and improve performance
Edited by Kaeriz on November 16, 2017 4:14PM So I've lurked for a long time in all of the threads surrounding the various proposals to revitalize pvp, and I wanted to take some time to - as the title says - collect them all together in the hopes that developers will finally offer some kind of comment. Perhaps I'm being naive or unreasonably hopeful, but given that I've uninstalled the game several times over only to come right back to it, I have to personally try and call developer attention to the game I truly and obsessively love. ESO, I wish I knew how to quit you.
My aim is to organize all the threads and comments into categories while linking back to the original thread. I'll admit that my laziness and desire for fidelity to these original and well-thought out ideas has prevented me from summarizing them, and all I've really done is some minor editing. Laziness has also resulted in not linking comment quotes that weren't from original post and poster, so forgive me if I don't link to your feedback beyond giving you @ credit and, in fact, spamming many of you with @ credits
Also, apologies if I wind up misrepresenting your comments. I'm doing my best and will gladly edit. Consequently, this post will be quite lengthy, hence the spoilers to allow more readability. I should also say the obvious that none of these ideas are mine. I've done my best to provide a starting point in this collection. The only input I'm offering is what I have personally deemed to be the most developed and well-thought out ideas, regardless of whether I agree or disagree with them. Of course, I need to have seen them too Ideally, this provokes discussion on refining all the ideas that could result in realistic one-stop shopping for the developers. My intent is that the pvp community will ultimately be the authors of this thread collectively, and I will edit the original posts with suggestions that originate from this thread without all the guff. My thought is that for every idea that three people endorse, we could have a poll that would allow the larger pvp community to have ultimate say so in the inclusion - or omission - of that particular idea. Of course, I'm open to suggestions on how to better proceed, formatting changes, whatever. Also, if there are threads that you'd like revived here, comments you'd like to add, please offer in the below and I will include if another endorses the thread. This is by no means an exhaustive list.
Lastly, I haven't done anything to organize the feedback on gameplay mechanics, though I know we all agree at the least that the faction stacks and negate/destro/earthgore meta is played out and boring. I'm happy to add this category on gameplay mechanics if people provide feedback in this thread and find some consensus.
Without further prologue:
I. Revitalizing and actually using the entirety of the Map
Spoiler
I can't think of a better way to introduce this category than @Etaniel excellent Tamriel Baguette News Report that quite beautifully displays all the many spots on the map we never get to use:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XNH6kVKeAfE[/flash]
a. From @Ishammael a proposal to add more objectives to map and revamp the scoring system:
Bottom Line, Up Front: I love the Elder Scrolls Online RvR battlefield: Cyrodiil. When functioning correctly, it is the most fun I have had playing a video game, ever. I believe the zone is gorgeous but deserves some TLC. Even today, after two years of fighting I find new and interesting locations. I think the Imperial City zone and concept is amazing. However, neither Cyrodiil nor the IC are utilized as fully as they could be for PvP. The following post is a set of improvements and ideas I have for Cyrodiil, the AvA battlefield, and the Imperial City.
Goals:
Reduce Lag by spreading players out
Create new, varied, dynamic, and interesting fights
Minimize downtime between PvP engagements
Enable and incentivize contribution to the Cyrodiil Alliance War for all group sizes (1…24)
Meaningful rewards and reasons to fight
Methods:
Introduce new objective locations throughout the Cyrodiil battlefield
Couple the Imperial City and Imperial Sewers with Cyrodiil
Revamp campaign scoring and rewards system
Shown below is the Cyrodiil map with new items listed. Most of my suggested improvements utilize assets and locations which already exist in the game. Some require new development.
Cyrodiil Interaction with IC:
First, implement all of @KenaPKK's suggestions for the IC and sewers listed in this thread: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/265284/kenas-take-on-imperial-city-pvp-objectives-a-guide-for-zos-with-pitchurs-3/p1 (editor's note: Kena's suggestions included in this post in the IC section)
The Imperial Sewers should be re-designed to allow a player to enter from Cyrodiil on one end and exit to Cyrodiil on the other.
IC Sewer Bases should be adjacent to entrances, not the entrance itself. Alliance Home bases should have a portal to their IC Sewer Base
Something amazing/terrible needs to happen if you bring an Elder Scroll to Molag Kena in the center of the sewers
Towns (White Circles):
Each of the five towns – Bruma, Cheydinhal, Cropsford, Vlastarus, and Chorrol – gets two flags
Flags are defended by guards just like a resource at a keep. Flags can be captured just like a resource.
When an alliance owns a town they contribute points to the Alliance War score
If ownership of a town remains under a particular alliance for a certain amount of time it reverts to “neutral” standing and will require re-capture
Farms / Estates (Orange Circles):
There are a diverse range of farms and estates scattered throughout Cyrodiil.
On a random and rotating basis, each farm or estate produces a “crop” of a particular material type (Mountain Flower, Lady’s Smock, Wood, Iron, etc.)
If an alliance controls the corresponding town, they may harvest the crop
New “Scroll” (Black Star):
Each alliance now owns a new “scroll” (pick a new name) which is located at the center of their home-base inner triangle. This scroll will be guarded similar to an Elder Scroll temple.
The new “scroll” may be picked up by an enemy alliance and taken to their home “scroll”. If they own their own “scroll”, they capture the enemy scroll and are rewarded with a substantial AP and Alliance War score bonus.
Once captured, the new “scroll” automatically resets.
An alliance may not capture an enemy scroll if they do not own their own “scroll”.
Once picked up, the new “scrolls” reset on a one-hour timer just like the Elder Scrolls
New Towers (Green Stars):
New towers will be added around the map. The towers will be modeled after the Empire Tower location south of Aleswell.
Each tower has a single flag with guards on top and an open door on the bottom.
The towers will be connected by a rapid transit system independent of keeps. If you own adjacent towers you may travel between them. See dashed green lines on the map.
When an alliance owns a tower they contribute points to the Alliance War score
Bridges (Blue Rectangles) and Doors (Yellow Squares)
The bridges which connect the mainland of Cyrodiil to the Imperial City will be rebuilt
Players will be able to access the IC districts by traveling across the bridges an entering outside doors. Players should be able to leave the IC districts to the IC island via the same doors.
Towers will be constructed on the IC island to capture and defend
Scoring and Rewards:
Keeps: 5 pts, Towers: 3 pts, Towns: 2 pt, Resources: 1 pt
End of campaign rewards are Alliance War Tokens (AWTs). With AWTs you can buy: Purple and Gold Mats, “Trait-Change” item , Gold jewelry, Coldharbor siege, Monster Sets, ???
Rewards for the Worth loot table includes crafting materials and siege in addition to current season of PvP gear
All prior PvP season gear available for purchase via AP vendors
Character history and rank now includes number of home campaigns finished first, second, and third
..............
Scattered thoughts from the community:
b. A new transitus network @NightbladeMechanics has suggested "a new transitus network that can port a trickle of players -- say 4 per minute -- across long distances based on ownership of objectives around the edges of the map." Additionally, "more objective flags planted in towns and ruins around the map." He also added the idea of "spontaneous events spawning on the map for us to run to and fight over. These could include giant daedric bosses protecting a special 7th scroll, mobile Imperial caravans to take out, or any other large objectives for the factions to brawl over." "Imagine a Cyrodiil with lots of significant little objectives scattered all around the map. People would split up and fight all over the place to control them, with small groups actually having new content to spark their reinterest, and objectives to encounter one another over outside of zerg lanes and resources. How exciting! "
c. High yield resource areas @Satiar : "Remember farming coldharbour for flowers? That shoulda been in Cyrodiil! There should have been great farming areas, places combatants and non-combatants went to farm, attack and protect. All the crazy fights I've been in and led these 3 years, one of the most memorable was defending a duelling event from griefers and getting paid for it. *** awesome! We needed more stuff like that. Cyrodiil devolved into some kind of gentleman's war where nothing was worth fighting over so the only benefit was the fight itself. The pride. But that fades as guilds fade and old players leave. Objectives is the wrong way of looking at it. It need(ed?) to be something of value. There needed to be things of value in the corners and valleys that weren't easily available elsewhere. anything else avd we eventually get where we are now."
d. More POI @Joy_Division : "- Supply wagons traveling in-between each enemy keep. Let me loot columbine, mats, fun stuff.
- The Alyied Wells are a nice idea, however 10 minutes is not worth the bother for such a small bonus to a stat I don’t really care about.
- Strategic resources in random places on the map. If I liberate them, I get some raw mats. These count on scoreboard and have minor Alliance wide combat effects.
- Put control flags throughout Cyrodiil. These also have minor Alliance wide combat effects (maybe in proportion to how much home territory flags an Alliance controls). I get a small utility buff for flipping it.
- NPCs encampments / supply dumps. Put a boss NPC here (that’s actually mildly threatening). Make this give the God of War AP buff bonus (the same one for defeating delve NPC bosses).
In random spawning spots over Cyrodiil are ancient relics of the Dwemer/Alyieds/Akaviri that function as either consumables and deployables and, get this, collectibles, skins, stuff to hang in my house that I can sell to PVE players. One of these is a “dwemer ground oil”. I absolutely will go out of my way to get these.
- Have things (resources, NPCs, daedric stuff, the usual fantasy plot items, etc) away from the Emperor ring that are harvestable at marked and known locations that players can go get and bring back to the Alliance base. I get a small pocket share of this stuff and AP for doing this. Have flags at these. The more an Alliance controls, the sturdier their castle walls are, the stronger their NPC are, and more effective their siege is.
- Most of you probably disagree with me, but the population cap is too small. Yes, I said it. Large map + small population = we need to concentrate in order to have meaningful fights. Also my guild feels compelled to respond to Arrius under attack because there isn’t anything else being attacked and there isn’t a strong friendly presence aside from us. Shrinking the population caps has been paradoxically counter-productive. Go ahead and disagree. You tell me to spread out and all I find is empty map space. So, nope, going to head to the only swords on the map.
e. Flags in the wilderness Also from @Joy_Division : "There are capture nodes all over Cyrodiil that flip about as quickly as the “domination” flags in Battlegrounds. These control a small region around them which is turned red, yellow, or blue on players Alliance war maps depending on which alliance controls them. Each are worth ½ Alliance point and serve to make it such that an alliance that “faction stacks” is guaranteed to lose a campaign." Similarly, @Drummerx04 : "The most basic suggestion for expanding cyrodiil is to add capture points in the wilderness that are actually worth points. Give small scale players something to go out and do."
f. Towns give gold that add to campaign rewards @RandomName123 : "- Make the existing capturable towns generate gold over the length of the campaign. Each time interval it is held produces a specific amount of gold. Call it a "tax" for the towns citizens, and the gold gets put into an "Alliance Bank" that gets divvied out at the end of the campaign in addition to the regular rewards. This gives more incentive to capture and hold them ... Also, "- Create a new scouting quest that requires going to X town, or Y small-capturable POI that your alliance currently owns and staying there for ~10 mins. With the goal that you play a scout, either engage hostiles that show up or point out enemy movement to the zone chat. Maybe after a lot of these completed quests you get the title of "Scout of Aldmeri" to brag about."
g. Reposition current keeps @Vilestride : "would it be too drastic to reconsider the positioning the current keeps so that the lanes of transit were not so direct? So for example if BRK was positioned more to the east so the transit lines were more equal. So now it would be as quick a ride from BRK to drake or BRK to Farragut as it is from BRK to arrius. This would break own the conventionally popular travel routes and encourage fights on the roads between all 3 keeps rather than just 1."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XNH6kVKeAfE[/flash]a. From @Ishammael a proposal to add more objectives to map and revamp the scoring system:
Bottom Line, Up Front: I love the Elder Scrolls Online RvR battlefield: Cyrodiil. When functioning correctly, it is the most fun I have had playing a video game, ever. I believe the zone is gorgeous but deserves some TLC. Even today, after two years of fighting I find new and interesting locations. I think the Imperial City zone and concept is amazing. However, neither Cyrodiil nor the IC are utilized as fully as they could be for PvP. The following post is a set of improvements and ideas I have for Cyrodiil, the AvA battlefield, and the Imperial City.
Goals:
Reduce Lag by spreading players out
Create new, varied, dynamic, and interesting fights
Minimize downtime between PvP engagements
Enable and incentivize contribution to the Cyrodiil Alliance War for all group sizes (1…24)
Meaningful rewards and reasons to fight
Methods:
Introduce new objective locations throughout the Cyrodiil battlefield
Couple the Imperial City and Imperial Sewers with Cyrodiil
Revamp campaign scoring and rewards system
Shown below is the Cyrodiil map with new items listed. Most of my suggested improvements utilize assets and locations which already exist in the game. Some require new development.
Cyrodiil Interaction with IC:
First, implement all of @KenaPKK's suggestions for the IC and sewers listed in this thread: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/265284/kenas-take-on-imperial-city-pvp-objectives-a-guide-for-zos-with-pitchurs-3/p1 (editor's note: Kena's suggestions included in this post in the IC section)
The Imperial Sewers should be re-designed to allow a player to enter from Cyrodiil on one end and exit to Cyrodiil on the other.
IC Sewer Bases should be adjacent to entrances, not the entrance itself. Alliance Home bases should have a portal to their IC Sewer Base
Something amazing/terrible needs to happen if you bring an Elder Scroll to Molag Kena in the center of the sewers
Towns (White Circles):
Each of the five towns – Bruma, Cheydinhal, Cropsford, Vlastarus, and Chorrol – gets two flags
Flags are defended by guards just like a resource at a keep. Flags can be captured just like a resource.
When an alliance owns a town they contribute points to the Alliance War score
If ownership of a town remains under a particular alliance for a certain amount of time it reverts to “neutral” standing and will require re-capture
Farms / Estates (Orange Circles):
There are a diverse range of farms and estates scattered throughout Cyrodiil.
On a random and rotating basis, each farm or estate produces a “crop” of a particular material type (Mountain Flower, Lady’s Smock, Wood, Iron, etc.)
If an alliance controls the corresponding town, they may harvest the crop
New “Scroll” (Black Star):
Each alliance now owns a new “scroll” (pick a new name) which is located at the center of their home-base inner triangle. This scroll will be guarded similar to an Elder Scroll temple.
The new “scroll” may be picked up by an enemy alliance and taken to their home “scroll”. If they own their own “scroll”, they capture the enemy scroll and are rewarded with a substantial AP and Alliance War score bonus.
Once captured, the new “scroll” automatically resets.
An alliance may not capture an enemy scroll if they do not own their own “scroll”.
Once picked up, the new “scrolls” reset on a one-hour timer just like the Elder Scrolls
New Towers (Green Stars):
New towers will be added around the map. The towers will be modeled after the Empire Tower location south of Aleswell.
Each tower has a single flag with guards on top and an open door on the bottom.
The towers will be connected by a rapid transit system independent of keeps. If you own adjacent towers you may travel between them. See dashed green lines on the map.
When an alliance owns a tower they contribute points to the Alliance War score
Bridges (Blue Rectangles) and Doors (Yellow Squares)
The bridges which connect the mainland of Cyrodiil to the Imperial City will be rebuilt
Players will be able to access the IC districts by traveling across the bridges an entering outside doors. Players should be able to leave the IC districts to the IC island via the same doors.
Towers will be constructed on the IC island to capture and defend
Scoring and Rewards:
Keeps: 5 pts, Towers: 3 pts, Towns: 2 pt, Resources: 1 pt
End of campaign rewards are Alliance War Tokens (AWTs). With AWTs you can buy: Purple and Gold Mats, “Trait-Change” item , Gold jewelry, Coldharbor siege, Monster Sets, ???
Rewards for the Worth loot table includes crafting materials and siege in addition to current season of PvP gear
All prior PvP season gear available for purchase via AP vendors
Character history and rank now includes number of home campaigns finished first, second, and third
..............
Scattered thoughts from the community:
b. A new transitus network @NightbladeMechanics has suggested "a new transitus network that can port a trickle of players -- say 4 per minute -- across long distances based on ownership of objectives around the edges of the map." Additionally, "more objective flags planted in towns and ruins around the map." He also added the idea of "spontaneous events spawning on the map for us to run to and fight over. These could include giant daedric bosses protecting a special 7th scroll, mobile Imperial caravans to take out, or any other large objectives for the factions to brawl over." "Imagine a Cyrodiil with lots of significant little objectives scattered all around the map. People would split up and fight all over the place to control them, with small groups actually having new content to spark their reinterest, and objectives to encounter one another over outside of zerg lanes and resources. How exciting! "
c. High yield resource areas @Satiar : "Remember farming coldharbour for flowers? That shoulda been in Cyrodiil! There should have been great farming areas, places combatants and non-combatants went to farm, attack and protect. All the crazy fights I've been in and led these 3 years, one of the most memorable was defending a duelling event from griefers and getting paid for it. *** awesome! We needed more stuff like that. Cyrodiil devolved into some kind of gentleman's war where nothing was worth fighting over so the only benefit was the fight itself. The pride. But that fades as guilds fade and old players leave. Objectives is the wrong way of looking at it. It need(ed?) to be something of value. There needed to be things of value in the corners and valleys that weren't easily available elsewhere. anything else avd we eventually get where we are now."
d. More POI @Joy_Division : "- Supply wagons traveling in-between each enemy keep. Let me loot columbine, mats, fun stuff.
- The Alyied Wells are a nice idea, however 10 minutes is not worth the bother for such a small bonus to a stat I don’t really care about.
- Strategic resources in random places on the map. If I liberate them, I get some raw mats. These count on scoreboard and have minor Alliance wide combat effects.
- Put control flags throughout Cyrodiil. These also have minor Alliance wide combat effects (maybe in proportion to how much home territory flags an Alliance controls). I get a small utility buff for flipping it.
- NPCs encampments / supply dumps. Put a boss NPC here (that’s actually mildly threatening). Make this give the God of War AP buff bonus (the same one for defeating delve NPC bosses).
In random spawning spots over Cyrodiil are ancient relics of the Dwemer/Alyieds/Akaviri that function as either consumables and deployables and, get this, collectibles, skins, stuff to hang in my house that I can sell to PVE players. One of these is a “dwemer ground oil”. I absolutely will go out of my way to get these.
- Have things (resources, NPCs, daedric stuff, the usual fantasy plot items, etc) away from the Emperor ring that are harvestable at marked and known locations that players can go get and bring back to the Alliance base. I get a small pocket share of this stuff and AP for doing this. Have flags at these. The more an Alliance controls, the sturdier their castle walls are, the stronger their NPC are, and more effective their siege is.
- Most of you probably disagree with me, but the population cap is too small. Yes, I said it. Large map + small population = we need to concentrate in order to have meaningful fights. Also my guild feels compelled to respond to Arrius under attack because there isn’t anything else being attacked and there isn’t a strong friendly presence aside from us. Shrinking the population caps has been paradoxically counter-productive. Go ahead and disagree. You tell me to spread out and all I find is empty map space. So, nope, going to head to the only swords on the map.
e. Flags in the wilderness Also from @Joy_Division : "There are capture nodes all over Cyrodiil that flip about as quickly as the “domination” flags in Battlegrounds. These control a small region around them which is turned red, yellow, or blue on players Alliance war maps depending on which alliance controls them. Each are worth ½ Alliance point and serve to make it such that an alliance that “faction stacks” is guaranteed to lose a campaign." Similarly, @Drummerx04 : "The most basic suggestion for expanding cyrodiil is to add capture points in the wilderness that are actually worth points. Give small scale players something to go out and do."
f. Towns give gold that add to campaign rewards @RandomName123 : "- Make the existing capturable towns generate gold over the length of the campaign. Each time interval it is held produces a specific amount of gold. Call it a "tax" for the towns citizens, and the gold gets put into an "Alliance Bank" that gets divvied out at the end of the campaign in addition to the regular rewards. This gives more incentive to capture and hold them ... Also, "- Create a new scouting quest that requires going to X town, or Y small-capturable POI that your alliance currently owns and staying there for ~10 mins. With the goal that you play a scout, either engage hostiles that show up or point out enemy movement to the zone chat. Maybe after a lot of these completed quests you get the title of "Scout of Aldmeri" to brag about."
g. Reposition current keeps @Vilestride : "would it be too drastic to reconsider the positioning the current keeps so that the lanes of transit were not so direct? So for example if BRK was positioned more to the east so the transit lines were more equal. So now it would be as quick a ride from BRK to drake or BRK to Farragut as it is from BRK to arrius. This would break own the conventionally popular travel routes and encourage fights on the roads between all 3 keeps rather than just 1."
II. Scoring Mechanics
Spoiler
a. Revisit the scoring system to encourage spreading out @Ghost-Shot suggests: "The everything is worth 1 point score system needs to go, there is no reason to spread out to different places on the map when none of those locations are actually valuable targets. I have come up with some numbers that I think would be good for score values, would love to hear what everyone thinks about them:
Tri-keeps (Rayles/Wraden/Glademist ) = 5 points each
Tri-keep resources = 2 points each
Dragon/Drake/Brindle and their resources = 3 points each
Emp ring keeps & resources = 2 points for home keeps, 1 point for enemy keeps
Outposts = 2 points each
Towns = 5 points each
Scrolls = 10 points each
Provided proper rewards are implemented for winning a campaign, having higher value targets deep in enemy territory would help spreading people out on the map, you are still going to have the frontline zerg on the ring (it’s never going away, just accept that) but you will also have the more organized forces all over the place." @Vilestride makes a similar point: "I am not saying go back to what it was, but making everything worth the same eliminates the versatility in what you are contributing with your group. Small scale players will default to taking smaller objectives. They will in turn be met with other small scale players. If they are met by large groups at the least its going to have a detrimental effect to the factions score for a 24 man group to waste their time at these kinds of objectives."
b. Make Scrolls Great Again @NBrookus makes a pinpoint suggestion: "Scrolls should have a bigger impact on score, but not give the faction that has them combat buffs."
III. Rewards for the Worthy, Campaign Rewards, and AP
Spoiler
a. Make AP more related to AVA objectives@sirinsidiator has in mind reorienting AP gain so that it encourages active participation in the alliance war instead of individual play. "Each player should get an amount of AP at the end of a scoring period based on their alliances performance and their individual performance," he suggests. "The AP reward is a base amount of AP plus bonus AP multiplied by the percentage of campaign score) scaled by the time spent playing during that scoring period and a population modifier. The base AP give players something to buy siege equipment with, even when their alliance is loosing. Bonus AP are awarded for doing certain things that help the war effort and are described below. They are scaled by the amount of campaign score that is obtained compared to the theoretical maximum by having control over all objectives. Low population bonus and underdog bonus also count towards it and can give a boost to alliances that are falling behind, making it much more interesting for players to play on underpopulated campaigns. The scaling by amount of time is to also reward players that leave before the scoring time and to prevent players from gaining AP when they are idle. Last but not least the population modifier is to give some control over how many AP are awarded on low population campaigns and to prevent players from gaining too many AP just by staying online during the night. The bonus AP consist of a base bonus plus the sum of all AP in the bonus categories - where each category is capped at a certain amount to prevent farming - multiplied by a modifier that depends on how many medals a player has. Medals are awarded for having the most AP in a certain category (editor's note: he suggests categories such as killing blows, overall damage, overall healing, players resurrected, AvA quests completed, distance covered during a scroll run, etc.) The AP limit for the bonus AP does not apply for this check."
Furthermore, he proposes overhauling the AvA quests:
"Keep quests are either attack a keep or defend a keep depending on the situation. If multiple keeps are under attack, they should be handed out based on certain criteria:
- your current group (location of most players and which quest other members already have)
- biggest impact on the campaign scoring, alliance buffs and fast travel network
Scouting quests should be turned into real scouting. They allow players to report enemy movements and show them on the map for the whole alliance to see.
The player gets offered to use the scout report action like in the current quest as soon as he tab targets an enemy player or siege, which makes him go out of stealth and write the report. It should also be possible to write reports near an enemy keep or inside an owned keep, which will show the state of all walls in that location to the alliance. Other players can kill the scout in that time, otherwise the whole alliance sees a map marker that indicates how many players/sieges have been spotted in that location.
Kill quests in their current form are useless and should be changed in order to be more useful and dynamic. Instead of requiring killing players anywhere they should be specific to a certain location and time. For example when a keep is under attack, the kill quest requires players to kill enemies that are in a certain distance to the keep (not too close and not too far).
Resource quests should be also changed to make players systematically attack important resources near the battlefield. For example when a keep is cut off, the quests directs players to recapture that resource, or when an enemy keep is to be attacked by the alliance, the resource quests lead players to the resources of said keep.
Scroll quests should also be updated so that the warlords don't hand out scroll quests randomly and the scroll quest should also be offered as a world event (like with the quests at trials) to make it easier for players running with the scroll to get them.
- When a scroll is picked up by a different alliance, they should offer a quest to intercept it.
- When a gate is opened by the own alliance, the appropriate scroll quest for that gate should be handed out.
- When a scroll is stolen, the quest to get it back should be permanently be available until it is secured again.
- It should also be allowed to have more than one scroll quest at a time and the scroll quest should fail when the objective is not met.
b. Bring back something similar to Pelinal's Boxes @Agrippa_Invisus suggested restoring the Pelinal's Boxes and junking the armor. He commented "it should not be a chore to deal with your rewards; it should be rewarding and fun." The community resoundingly endorsed this idea. @Solariken commented that it need not be as good as the boxes were during the event, but "a little gold, a chance at siege equipment and repairs, a few herbs, upgrade materials, etc. Please no more garbage gear that I have to waste time deconstructing." @LonePirate suggested that the books be replaced with furniture plans or furnishings. @NightbladeMechanics commented "remove tel var and Hakeijos, reduce drop chances on motifs slightly to preserve the markets long term, add in some more housing items, increase alchemy mat drops, and add in all the unrepresented types of siege." @NBrookus suggested that "the motifs could be dropped altogether." @rmerlb16_ESO added "no Telvar. These should be an incentive for people to play IC." A few added that a little less cold fire and camps would also help
c. Reintroduce Master and/or vMA to campaign victory rewards Elsewhere, @NightbladeMechanics and quite a number of others have suggested "reintroducing Master or vMA weapons to end of campaign victory rewards, or creating a new type of 1pc weapon that amplifies Alliance War abilities." @Ghost-Shot echoes this suggestion: "Malestrom/Master weapons, or at least some alternative, need to be available by some means through PvP. In the past, we had a chance to get Master weapons from the end of campaign rewards, that would be a good way to start if you are opposed to directly purchasing them for a huge amount of AP. PvEers complain all the time about having to PvP for things like vigor and caltrops so they were made easier for them to obtain, why don’t we get the same treatment?"
d. Moar tiers @Ghost-Shot in the same thread: "add two more tiers to end of campaign rewards, tier 4 at 500k AP, tier 5 at 1 million AP. Tier 4 would put your rewards up to 75k gold, 5 pieces of epic gear, and a full stack of repair kits. Tier 5 gets you 150k gold, 5 gold items, a stack of wall repairs and a stack of door repairs, if your alliance wins the campaign. I’m not entirely sure about this one, but maybe when an alliance wins a campaign, the following cycle the get a 10% AP earned bonus. I realize this seems like huge rewards but if you want people to care, the incentive has to be there."
f. Make AP Great Again ... or actually just worth something @RandomName123 : "- Make AP worth something. Like AP to buy some mats, either raw material or upgrade material, but at fairly high costs."
g. Untether rewards to home campaign @NightbladeMechanics suggests a larger undertaking in revamping rewards, no longer tethering them to a particular campaign: "I want ZOS to massively rework end of campaign reward mails and end of campaign victory mails, making them actually strongly desired, and then awarding us with a mail from every campaign in which we earned some baseline percentage of our total AP earned during its duration. Let's say for example there are 4 campaigns. If ZOS rewards mails for any campaign in which you earned at least 15% of your total AP earned during that campaign's duration, then you'd have 60% of your total AP earned evenly among the campaigns, and then the remaining 40% left to earn in whichever campaign you decide to home. This would of course mean doing away with guest campaigns entirely and allowing us to queue ourselves into whichever campaign we want without limits. The idea is to give us full mobility between campaigns and then rewarding us for playing spread out among them."
IV. Emperor Mechanics
Spoiler
a. Holding emp = two keeps I can't track down the specific thread(s), but it's certainly been proposed that emp should require control of at least two keeps to reduce the horrific tri-faction stacking lag. @Satiar has commented on this: "Best way to change it: make it so that you have to hold TWO keeps to hold emp."
b. Tie emp buffs to number of keeps held @Joy_Division : "The Empress’s buffs are tied to how many home keeps she controls. Having all six makes her stronger than currently, having less makes her progressively weaker. If the Empress loses a home scroll she is disgraced and is removed from her throne. (now there are two dethrone mechanics to help alleviate the last empress keep lag. She is stronger initially because it’s a lot harder to defend)."
c. Emp must claim another keep within an hour when down to last keep @JDar :To address "nightmare scenario of turtling in keeps at the expense of all other objectives and the game's very playability": Put a timer on when the emperor is down to his or her last keep. If at that point, the emperor's faction does not capture two more emperor keeps within an hour, then the emperor is dethroned regardless."
d. Emp gauge @Telel : "This one has also long said that reworking the emperor mechanic to include more map control would also be nice. Not just holding keeps but actually controlling other points on the maps like the small towns, certain delves, choke points, etc. Then have it operate more like flag flipping but on a huge scale. E.G the more map spots you control the faster the emp gauge fills up. Once it's full someone gets Emperor until it drops below a certain amount."
e. Lock emping to 8 hour division to prevent nightcapping @Crispen_Longbow suggests the following: "Create campaigns that are locked to 8 hour scouring periods. Also tie it to Emp crowning. You can only crown an Emp while scoring is open.
Trueflame
5:00PM - 1:00AM EST (Scoring Open / Emp Crowning Active)
1:00AM - 9:00AM EST (Scoring & Emp Crowning Closed)
9:00AM - 5:00PM EST (Scoring & Emp Crowning Closed)
Haderus
5:00PM - 1:00AM EST (Scoring & Emp Crowning Closed)
1:00AM - 9:00AM EST (Scoring Open / Emp Crowning Active)
9:00AM - 5:00PM EST (Scoring & Emp Crowning Closed)
Azuras Star
5:00PM - 1:00AM EST (Scoring & Emp Crowning Closed)
1:00AM - 9:00AM EST (Scoring & Emp Crowning Closed)
9:00AM - 5:00PM EST (Scoring Open / Emp Crowning Active)
f. Balance pop the reducing caps outside of NA prime time @IxSTALKERxI commented on the above:"The problem with that is only a 3rd of the prime time population can participate in the alliance war (presuming 3 times more players play during prime time than the other times) due to not everyone being able to fit into trueflame.
With the scoring restriction based on time - I was thinking of something similar but using it to balance server population rather than just scoring.
I don't have any actual data, but here are some made up population/server numbers to show an example:
A server can hold 150 AD, 150 EP and 150 DC.
During 5:00PM - 1:00AM EST - 450 players play on each faction a cross all servers (total of 1350)
During 1:00AM - 9:00AM EST - 150 players play on each faction a cross all servers (total of 450)
During 9:00AM - 5:00PM EST - 150 players play on each faction a cross all servers (total of 450)
This means you could have:
Trueflame - open 24/7 with 150 players on all 3 factions 24/7.
Haderus - open 5:00PM - 1:00AM EST with 150 players on all 3 factions
Azura - open 5:00PM - 1:00AM EST with 150 players on all 3 factions"
V. Imperial City and Sewers
Spoiler
Kena's plan to make IC great again Quoting directly from Kena:
"Primary Goals:
- foster fast paced, small scale PvP
- create varied and interesting fights
- minimize downtime between PvP engagements
- contribute to the Cyrodiil Alliance War without overshadowing Cyrodiil objectives or demanding attention from Cyrodiil groups aiming to win the campaign
- discourage accumulation of large groups
- discourage night capping
Methods to Achieve Goals:
place many objectives relatively close to each other
- high number of objectives makes it difficult for a night cap crew to hold many objectives against a small resistance moving elsewhere in the DLC unless the night cap crew splits up, at which point they become vulnerable to getting rekt
- close proximity of objectives gives players a choice of multiple logical next targets to move on to following battles or objective captures, minimizing PvE time running between objectives and fights
place objectives outside of the usual lanes of travel
- locate fights in interesting locales that players may not visit often
- make groups go slightly out of their way to reach nearby objectives
- implement a significantly shorter campaign point score evaluation period than is present in Cyrodiil open world; decrease points awarded per objective per evaluation period to compensate
This incentivizes hitting the objective, capturing it, and moving on to assault other objectives instead of passively defending for points
20 minutes? 10 minutes? Not sure where this should fall to encourage fighting over objectives without overworking the servers:
- avoids encouraging groups to stick to resources
- prevents capturing IC objectives from becoming as pointless as capturing resources
- must be careful not to make IC objectives more valuable than Cyrodiil objectives; keep them less valuable so that large Cyrodiil groups don't have much of a reason to come to IC
scaling tel var farm bonus for every objective that your faction owns in IC + valuable items at the tel var vendor
- clearing mobs becomes valuable as opposed to running through them with Rapids on
- monetary incentive for players who don't care about winning the campaign scales with number of objectives owned, giving them a reason to fight over them
- Hakeijo, gold upgrade mats, and PvP consumables for sale at tel var vendor at prices comparable but slightly higher than general guild store market price
PvP objective flags -- not boss objectives -- CAN NOT GIVE AP TICKS
- This won't be a popular point because nuuuu y u take mah ticks, but if these objectives give ticks, every AP farming zerg in Cyrodiil will spend some time trying to farm these. That is the last thing we need in IC.
- Leave the ticks to boss fights that have respawn timers. This will create inconsistency that will deter the AP farm zergs.
District Objectives:
2+ objectives per district
- zergs will accumulate on flag if there is only one objective per district
- more objectives = more incentive to spread out
districts may have different numbers of objectives from each other
- creates variety between the districts for unique and interesting engagements tailored to their terrain
players may climb sewer base ladders into districts only if they own at least half of that district's objectives
- in order to reach an unowned district, requires players to venture into the sewers at least as far as the district ladders near their sewer base
- in order to reach an unowned district opposite their side of the ring, requires players to either venture farther through the sewers or to climb one of the nearer district ladders and then run district to district around the ring
- consistent with the lore of infiltrating the Imperial City via the sewers -- if you don't have a foothold in the district, you have to work your way there
players may respawn in the district in which they die if they own at least half of that district's objectives
- players can fight over respawn rights without having to own every objective in the district, allowing fights to go back and forth
- encourages running from objective to objective to attack and defend instead of sitting on one to defend
- if the district has an odd number of objectives, then you round up
players have a respawn timer like with forward camps
- can't have zombie hordes poring off the flags
scale the roaming district bosses to fight groups of 12-16 or more, and award the members of the killing faction within that district an offensive tick that scales off of enemy deaths to the boss and to allies in that district during the fight
- gives players an AP reward for engaging in drawn out PvP combat with these big bosses spewing AoE mechanics all over the place
- will make for some crazy fights, hilarious wipes, and juicy ticks
Sewer Objectives:
- no respawning at sewer objectives
- all other characteristics are the same as District objectives
each objective in the dead end areas just outside of center gives a buff where you earn 1 AP for every 5 tel var that you collect for each of these objectives that your faction owns
- venturing into a dead end imposes risk on the group attacking the objective
- also leaves defenders with little chance of escape should they lose
- PvPers will scramble to control these. Some will look to grind. Others will look to kill players and earn AP for the tel var they take. Regardless, they will definitely look to attack and defend these objectives.
- Notice that there are 4 on my map below. Yes, one objective will always have 2 of them. Envy breeds conflict and discourages the factions from just leaving each other with 1 special objective each.
- the fact that 2 of these objectives are on the EP wing of the sewers is irrelevant because proximity to the sewer bases has little bearing on combat advantage, if any
- the objective marked as "PvE objective" is the zombie group fight
- scale world bosses to fight groups of 3-6, and award members of the killing faction who were in immediate combat with the boss a Minor Expedition buff for 5 minutes as well as an offensive
tick for enemy deaths in the fight
- the bosses should be somewhat dangerous in case enemy players come into the room during the fight, or choose to attack the group attempting the boss
- the Minor Expedition buff will be quick to pick up for speedy travel around the sewers when combined with Rapids
scale the travelling flag bosses to fight groups of 10-12, and award members of the killing faction who were in immediate combat with the boss an offensive tick for enemy deaths in the fight as well as a 15 minute Minor Expedition buff
- Please buff these bosses....I can solo them all, and I know several other people who can as well. These need to be real threats that you either spend time killing or sneak past.
- Minor Expedition provided for movement around the sewers
- moving source of a tick = moving combat objective to look for fights over
Molag Bal -- the big man himself -- NO TICK -- instead, Mr. Bal calls off his daedric army such that no mobs or bosses within IC aggro against members of the killing faction for 15 minutes unless attacked first
- yellow aura around mobs, like on those neutral zombies in Wayrest or ICP
- players would be able to flow through IC without worrying about mobs aggroing on them, a huge quality of life buff to movement
- easier movement --> easier capture of objective flags
- escaping from players would also be made interesting, as you could run past mobs while the mobs aggro on them
- with the buff having a duration longer than Molag Bal's respawn rate, multiple factions can have the buff simultaneously
- if Molag Bal gives an AP tick, groups will just gravitate toward center and end up zerging down there unintentionally because center is where the greatest possible AP gains would be
- also shouldn't be an overall AP buff because large AP farming zerg groups will just camp center, killing Molag Bal and farming any enemy players who try to pass through or fight back
Ok I lied -- I only have one pitchur
Blue star: PvP objective flag (except for Molag Bal. He gets to be a blue star too, woops!)
Blue star with circle: PvP objective flag that's more valuable than the other objectives
Red dot: world boss
Black arrow: district ladder
Other random ideas I've had since posting this:
What if players could purchase tools or traps unique to the Imperial city for use only in IC? I'm thinking things like traps or spell scrolls that summon daedric slaves or lay down a patch of fire on the ground or create a big obstacle that everyone then has to play around. It's a rough idea. I'll have to sleep on it.
VI. Increasing interest in PVP for PVErs
Spoiler
a. Give node benefits outside of cyrodiil @NightbladeMechanics solicited feedback from pve'ers directly: "I asked some PvEers what ZOS could do to increase their interest in PvP, and one said "what if owning a region in Cyrodiil gave benefits to your faction outside of Cyrodiil, like if you own certain keeps as EP, you get double node drops in Shadowfen?"
b. Reduce the gear barriers to competing in Cyrodiil @Lexxypwns : "What about the fact that you need different gear for pvp? I know we can't homogenize all encounters so 1 set of gear fits every situation, but new players come to pvp and die near instantly because they're not running impen, enough sustain, whatever. Perhaps a vendor that allows you to "borrow" blue gear while in cyrodiil. You hop in cyro and go to vendor X and get your impen gear in a small selection of sets for stam/mag/tanks. This gear can't be re-enchanted, traded, upgraded, modified in any way, or used outside cyrodiil." Adding in this thread: "I stand by the accessibility of PVP needing to be changed so that you don't have to farm X hours or spend weeks/months on crafting research just to try out a game mode properly."
c. Make crit resistance a component of Battle Spirit @NightbladeMechanics : Relatedly, understanding that the lack of impen gear is what often makes the PVE-PVP transition difficult, Kena proposes "nerfing impen, Transmutation, and Impregnable and then adding a base crit resistance to Battle Spirit ... you could even go the route of nerfing impen and the base crit damage modifier and leaving Trans, Impreg, and CPs alone. I think you see the point, though. Pull crit resistance out of stuff, put into Battle Spirit, PvEers profit."
d. Give the town merchants PVE gear @kylewwefan : "If the golden or the towns elite gear merchant constantly had legendary SPC, Worm, Ebon, Willpower etc....I know quite a few that would be in Cyrodil way more often." Editor's note: I know these are still popular PVP sets, but I've included for sake of perhaps adding pve sets to the town elite gear merchants. Apologies if I'm reappropriating your idea.
e. resource gathering quests @CavalryPK : "mini quest the sends you to a random location on the map to gather resources for you alliance - this will make the farmers, traders and crafters come the pvp in order to get resources (crafting mats for armor or furniture). "
f. No more baggin'[ @anitajoneb17_ESO : "I know the rage tells, the teabagging, the taunting and all the crap that's going on in PvP is part of a culture, a code, and doesn't mean things as literally as they seem to be to outsiders. Yet I still believe it's make-up for real toxicity and agressivity. Also, you have to realize and become conscious of how horrible and sick it all looks from the outside. So my point is : if you (by "you" I mean, the PvP community) want to keep those habits and behaviours, keep that "code" among yourselves, then fine, do it. But if the issue is to *attract* people from the outside (PvE'rs), as is suggested by this thread, in order to refill the population in Cyrodiil, that's something that you really, really need to reconsider. It's off-putting to an extent that you've simply forgotten over time. Normal people don't enjoy agressivity, even in a competitive environment. Simple as that."
g. Scroll and enemy keeps confer bonuses outside of Cyrodiil @asneakybanana : "reintroducing the benefit of scroll bonuses and enemy keep bonuses applying outside of cyro. This will encourage players from outside cyro to venture into PvP and participate in fighting for their faction. Also, I think it would be cool if there were special events in PvP once every week or every other week and the winning faction would get some bonus outside of campaign scoring and ap. Imagine it like the node wars and fights for castles in BDO where you get a % of the gold earned in the area that your guild holds. Could do something along the lines of that where if your faction wins you get a week long 5% gold/ap/exp buff. Sure this may end up getting zergy but it could be very interesting seeing strategy alliances play out, especially if there are 3 nodes to fight over between the 3 factions. Also, another thing that could make things interesting is creating a sort of PvP raid boss/ world boss system. Similar to molag bol in the sewers but much harder hitting, much better rewards, and much harder to kill. Give the boss like 200m health and have him do large high damage aoe attacks and make it so that the reward is something similar to maelstrom or master weapons where it's a super low chance to receive something good but farming for that piece of gear will help you a lot in the end. Make a server wide notification that he is spawning and have him spawn every 2-5 days to make it not an every day occurrence. (Yes I got this idea from world bosses in BDO). I think this would help with more consistent population because people won't want to potentially miss out on their chance at gear they need so they will be more likely to be already sitting in cyro."
h. Stop farming pugs @zyk : "What I see from some highly coordinated small groups I encounter is hours spent every day fighting unorganized mobs of mostly casual players. I fight along these players and they tend to melt. They don't know the tactics -- which is why the fall for the same old tricks. I've used this analogy before. If a good CS clan were to fight with each other on a public server against randoms, they'd *easily* win every time and be considered jerks for it. Very quickly, they would find their opponents leave and their server empty. It is inherently toxic for organized gamers to look for "juicy" opponents they outclass. It impedes growth. The same goes for all games. Without a reasonable opportunity for even competition, the game dies. This is why all other competitive mediums are segmented based on aptitude. No one would get into competitive sports if this segmentation did not exist." @CyrusArya responded: "You make it out as if small scale groups go out of their way and forcibly coerce players to chase them. This is not the case. People chase small scalers down and go out of their way to engage when they perceive a numerical advantage. Because they think they will win. And you know what? Some of those times they are right. Some of those time they are wrong. It's a two way relationship, so spare me the lecture. Furthermore, it is not nearly as easy as you make it out to be. Players don't have to be fodder to be a threat in large enough numbers, and groups in general (pug or otherwise) are not nearly as incompetent as you like to believe."
i. Stop charging for CP respecs and skill remorphs @waitwhat : "Also make CP respecs and re-morphing zero-cost. 3k gold multiple times per-day (more if re-morphing) really cramps switching between the two, more so for those newer to the game without large cash-reserves/steady income. It is extremely inconvenient to do both PvE and PvP on the same character, and that probably deters the new blood just at the point where they would be getting in to Cyrodiil." Editor's note: adding that single skill remorphs through the skill window would be peachy too
j. High yield resource nodes in Cyrodiil @Satiar : "Imagine: in the middle of the 3 trikeeps there's a resource rich area. Tons of flowers, or tons of mining. Imagine crafting/trade guilds setting up shop there, enemy guilds making raids on the area. You could get an entire pve/pvp ecosystem there, guilds raiding or providing protection, trade guilds forming alliances with pvp guide for protection or to obtain resources.... just one half-baked idea but still! It can't just be AP, it was never enough. Not to create an interconnected pvp community."
k. Give worthwhile loot to Cyrodiil PVE @RandomName123 : "- Make some random mobs in the PvP overworld much stronger and drop worth-while loot, like nice gear sets, random mats, cosmetic skins, or gold tempers/tannins. These are mobs already in the world, like the trolls by one of the keeps, that one-off gargoyle that is in the middle of nowhere, that really small random fenced-in graveyard full of ghosts, that one mountain lion that you can't damage or that dragon thing guarding the raised bridge to IC. These exact mobs are already placed in Cyrodiil. Make these hard fights, and require 5-10 people over like five minutes. Somewhat like the group bosses in PvE, but more of a raid. This might produce PvPvE raid parties in less used parts of the cyrodiil overland map."
l. Moar motifs @Apherius : "introduce more Motif that we can buy with AP."
VII. Uncategorized suggestions
Spoiler
a. Get rid of the campaigns introduced during Midyear Mayhem @Anazasi has suggested addressing the increasingly vacating primary campaign: "I think an immediate fix would be eliminating the campaigns that were created for the pvp event." Similarly, @SanTii.92 "Removing the two extra campaigns would be a nice place to start." @NightbladeMechanics agrees: "they need to close some campaigns for sure, but I would also like to see incentives to play in all of the campaigns, not just your home campaign. Do away with guest campaigns already, and let us play in all of them."
b. Reduce group size @Derra : "Reduce groupsize. Large groups put up a huge barrier people have to overcome to participate. The smaller the amount of people needed - the easier it is to get people to try to participate. It´s easier to grab 5 friends out of a guild and form a semi functional group than it is to grab 15. It also places more focus on guilds (multiple groups organised within the guild) and less one large group. It´s a disincentive to run purgebots/rapidbots in group that put you at a huge advantage over "normal" players/builds." Commenting on the above, however, @Kilandros "Artificially trying to promote smaller group play by capping group size won't change anything. The only way to get small scale action to make a return is by reining back the balance changes that have made numbers the dominant meta. Parties of 5 can still stack together to steamroll a single Party of 5" @Derra responded: "The core argument is: Finding 5 people to play with is easier than finding 15. Pvp needs to be accessible. Largescale pvp is the main goal for cyrodiil - yet it´s the most inaccessible form of pvp there is. It´s not about changing how people play. It´s about getting them to play in the first place and having it as accessible as possible." @NightbladeMechanics commented: "This is.....a very interesting and compelling argument. I too love unorganized large scale PvP -- "unorganized" meaning no ball groups present, just a big siege with mostly small groups and pugs and maybe a few large groups who don't ball up on each other and roll over everyone else, with several skirmishes happening at the same time all over and around the keep." @Vilestride responde: "Drop group to 5 and say goodbye to the casual PvPer who just wants to zerg surf a while ... As for 'Zergballs', I am going to assume you mean organised raids. IMO it will make them stronger than ever before ... Believe me, I and my guild mates don't need a crown to follow our leader ... The only threat to an organised guild is other organised guilds. If you make it inherently harder to organise groups, the gap between top tier and mid/lower tier guilds will widen, not close." @NightbladeMechanics : "I definitely do think that cutting the group cap would result in groupless pugs just hording together even worse than they already do, and leaving organized, skilled players more helpless to deal with them. As much lag as organized large groups create, they do keep the pug tides in check. If ZOS were to reduce the group cap, they'd have to create some very strong positive incentives to spread people out, such as new objectives around the edges of the map that actually contribute to the campaign and reward the players who travel to and fight for them with meaningful and desirable rewards." @Agrippa_Invisus : "IMO, the group size should never, ever have been allowed to be greater than what the PVE content allows - 12. Universal group sizes also allows for easier transition between the two activities. A 20 man PVP raid can't convert easily into two 12 man raids for PVE content, but a 12 man can just step out without re-organization and switch between the two with ease."
c. Moar events@gibous : "A more regular calendar of events - why not have a double AP weekend once a month?"
d. Make taking a keep difficult again @Vilestride : "When the game launched taking keeps meant hour long sieges, epic back and forth battles. Now it means setting up your 20/20 on a door (which is easy to do with as little as 8 people), getting in and flipping flags before anyone gets there. This should not be possible. Lengthen the time taken to siege down walls and doors. Make taking a keep a real challenge that is almost impossible unless your faction actually implements tactics that involve all sized groups, again, bringing back the need for variety of group sizes. Honestly me and my 16 man raid shouldn't be able to take ales from DC unless we have small scale groups cutting its transit, optimally glademist transit to and then stalling incoming DC from any other transit routes as well as harassing counter-siege where they can."
e. Just like ya did for PVErs, stop making PVPers grind content they may not enjoy @zyk : "A big reason PVP focused players quit ESO and never return is because of the PVE item grind. Players into open world AvA PVP probably don't want to spend dozens or hundreds of hours grinding 4-12 player PVE instances to remain competitive. To better retain players, change the itemization dynamics so PVP players can progress their characters by doing what they enjoy: PVP."
f. Reduce lag and improve performance @literallyeverysinglepersonwhopvps : reduce lag and improve performance
36
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NightbladeMechanics✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭1) You can't delete forum posts.
2) We need more discussion like this, and especially a megathread bringing all discussion on the subject into one place for easy reference.
Thanks for the mentions and for keeping the conversation going. I will be bookmarking this thread, as I recommend everyone should. Edited by NightbladeMechanics on September 15, 2017 8:11PMKena
Legion XIII
Excellence without elitism
Premier small scale PvP
Legend
NA/PC's original dueling and PvP community guild
Now NA/PC's dueling, BGs, small scale, GvG, and general PvP community. We float just under 500 members. Mail me in game for an invite.
Apex Predator.
Here's a great thread collecting community ideas for PvP updates.
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Agrippa_Invisus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭It's all cool. My post is getting near the end of its lifespan.
More threads, more posts, and active constructive feedback are the positive things we can do to try to help the community.
That way we put the ball in ZOS's court.
As customers, their response determines how we continue to invest our money.Agrippa Invisus / Indominus / Inprimis / Inviolatus
DragonKnight / Templar / Warden / Sorcerer - Vagabond
Once a General, now a Citizen
Former Emperor of Bloodthorn and Vivec
For Sweetrolls! FOR FIMIAN!1 -
Lexxypwns✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Excellent post.
I stand by the accessibility of PVP needing to be changed so that you don't have to farm X hours or spend weeks/months on crafting research just to try out a game mode properly, however that is only part of the problem. Longevity has to be addressed, at this point I've basically quit playing in cyrodiil because the fights are always the same, either its stomping pugs, avoiding large groups, waving at fellow small scalers, or the occasional good fight that typically ends in you getting zerged.
I'm just glad our community has been so active in coming up with ideas, hopefully the dev team will take some of these ideas into account and update Cyrodiil. I think its too late for it to ever be the game it once was again, with multiple full PVP servers hosting large competitive guilds on all sides, however I think if we can get even some of these ideas, or some off-shoot of them, implemented then we can increase the longevity of the open world PVP in cyrodiil and maybe reclaim some of the more die-hard players who have left us.0 -
CavalryPK✭✭✭✭✭WOha. very very very nice and thanks for the mention! bookmarking this to follow. hopefully some one from ZOS would look at this and comment.THE CAVELRY HAS ARRIVED! Cav is a professional magblade, (in his not so professional opinion). He is immortal and is fighting for the Pact since 2E 572, amidst the turmoil of the Second Akaviri Invasion. He protects the provinces of Skyrim, Morrowind and Black Marsh.
Check out his PVP YouTube channel !
https://youtube.com/TheCavalryPK0 -
Kaeriz✭✭✭Edited to include this:
I stand by the accessibility of PVP needing to be changed so that you don't have to farm X hours or spend weeks/months on crafting research just to try out a game mode properly, however that is only part of the problem.
I agree completely here. If you've already spent countless hours outfitting for pve and decided to dip a toe into PVP ... and are mowed over in all divines/infused PVE sets, realize you need to spend countless more hours/gold investing into pvp sets and traits, you might just decide to exclusively stick to PVE.
0 -
NightbladeMechanics✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Edited to include this:
I agree completely here. If you've already spent countless hours outfitting for pve and decided to dip a toe into PVP ... and are mowed over in all divines/infused PVE sets, realize you need to spend countless more hours/gold investing into pvp sets and traits, you might just decide to exclusively stick to PVE.
Did you catch my suggestions for reworking crit resistance? I don't remember where I wrote all of that out...
Basically, the major factor making PvE builds nonviable in PvP is the lack of impen -- if you don't have crit resistance, you get one shot and can't really compete.
My suggestion basically recommended nerfing impen, Transmutation, and Impregnable and then adding a base crit resistance to Battle Spirit.
I don't know what the ideal numbers would be, but basically shifting some crit resistance from our builds to our characters would alleviate some of the hurdle of bringing your PvE build into PvP as a new PvPer.
It would also loosen the importance of impen, although that isn't a major concern imo.
~~
Edit: I should elaborate that I left the resistant CP star out of my list because it balances against the crit damage stars (100 resistant reduces enemy crit damage by 25%, they're mirror stars). In order to pull some value out of resistant, ZOS would be obligated to nerf elfborn and precise strikes, which I think is unnecessary.
Each impen trait reduces enemy crit resistance by 3.8%, Trans by 19%, and Impreg by 37%. Those are all really big numbers when compared to the effects of other traits and 5pc sets, and nerfs honestly wouldn't hurt their usability at all, especially when the crit resistance is being shifted back onto our characters.
To put impen in perspective, one divines with Shadow mundus increases your crit damage by .63% this patch. Last patch it was .84%. Impen is just so necessary in PvP because crit damage scales so high from other sources, namely the base modifier and CP.
Heck, you could even go the route of nerfing impen and the base crit damage modifier and leaving Trans, Impreg, and CPs alone. I think you see the point, though. Pull crit resistance out of stuff, put into Battle Spirit, PvEers profit.Edited by NightbladeMechanics on September 15, 2017 8:58PMKena
Legion XIII
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Legend
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Now NA/PC's dueling, BGs, small scale, GvG, and general PvP community. We float just under 500 members. Mail me in game for an invite.
Apex Predator.
Here's a great thread collecting community ideas for PvP updates.
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Sorcerer Discussion:
https://discord.gg/e3QkCS8
Templar Discussion:
https://discord.gg/WvVuSw7
Warden Discussion:
https://discord.gg/sTFY4ys
General Healing Discussion:
https://discord.gg/6CmzBFb
TONKS!
https://discord.gg/DRNYd39
Werewolf Discussion:
https://discord.gg/aDEx2ev
Vampire Discussion:
https://discord.gg/yfzck8Q2 -
NightbladeMechanics✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Oh, I also had a proposal someplace for overhauling end of campaign rewards in a particular way.
I want ZOS to massively rework end of campaign reward mails and end of campaign victory mails, making them actually strongly desired, and then awarding us with a mail from every campaign in which we earned some baseline percentage of our total AP earned during its duration.
Let's say for example there are 4 campaigns. If ZOS rewards mails for any campaign in which you earned at least 15% of your total AP earned during that campaign's duration, then you'd have 60% of your total AP earned evenly among the campaigns, and then the remaining 40% left to earn in whichever campaign you decide to home.
This would of course mean doing away with guest campaigns entirely and allowing us to queue ourselves into whichever campaign we want without limits. The idea is to give us full mobility between campaigns and then rewarding us for playing spread out among them.
~~
Then there's the rabbit hole... ZOS could perhaps even rethinking home campaigns as well. Should a person receive buffs and leaderboard spots in campaigns other than their home? Should they be eligible for emperorship? They would have to contend for the #1 spot and for keeps in multiple campaigns if they were to attempt emp in two (or more!) at the same time, but wouldn't that be a cool accomplishment?! If we were to go all the way down that rabbit hole, then what would be the point of having a home campaign at all? What if all ZOS did away with home and guest camps altogether?
~~
One more way to incentivize people to spread out via positive incentives -- to make them want to spread out as opposed to levying limitations on gathering together (pop cap reductions, dynamic pop caps, account faction locks, etc).Edited by NightbladeMechanics on September 15, 2017 9:12PMKena
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Here's a great thread collecting community ideas for PvP updates.
[MEGATHREAD] Feedback Threads for Class Reps
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Dragonknight Discussion:
https://discord.gg/UHtZhz8
Sorcerer Discussion:
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Templar Discussion:
https://discord.gg/WvVuSw7
Warden Discussion:
https://discord.gg/sTFY4ys
General Healing Discussion:
https://discord.gg/6CmzBFb
TONKS!
https://discord.gg/DRNYd39
Werewolf Discussion:
https://discord.gg/aDEx2ev
Vampire Discussion:
https://discord.gg/yfzck8Q0 -
Kaeriz✭✭✭Edited to include both of Kena's suggestions.
Going forward, I'm wondering how others feel about the adding of ideas to the original post. Perhaps a threshold of agrees? I'm happy to keep editing w/ my own opinion, but I'd rather leave it to the larger community to agree upon which ideas to include moving forward.Edited by Kaeriz on September 15, 2017 9:45PM1 -
Joy_Division✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭This is a really good compilation of many of the solid ideas the forums have come up to improve the PvP experience.
It's unfortunate that we have seen hardly any effort from ZoS to even try to test the waters on some of these; it's almost as if they content to have PvP stagnant
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NBrookus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭A++ for effort, and this is a great idea to corral the discussion in one place. I don't think you should constantly edit the original post since it will probably get out of hand quickly.
But... I suspect it will get the same level of response from devs the other threads did. 0 -
Kaeriz✭✭✭A++ for effort, and this is a great idea to corral the discussion in one place. I don't think you should constantly edit the original post since it will probably get out of hand quickly.
But... I suspect it will get the same level of response from devs the other threads did.
I agree it'd get out of hand if I simply add everything, but I would like the chance for well-thought out ideas that are endorsed by the community to become integrated into original post, or even edited out of the post. I'd like to some degree if this was a living post. Perhaps a high threshold of agrees? 10, maybe?Edited by Kaeriz on September 15, 2017 9:56PM0 -
CatchMeTrolling✭✭✭✭✭
✭For bg's they could definitely make the leaderboards more rewarding and fix the traits to lean more towards pvp; especially given the fact the sets that's rewarded are basically pvp focused. First week I got a gold prosperous impregnable shield so yeah...
Deathmatch can do without the sigil, I understand the purpose but it's absolutely silly, at least lower the damage. The way kills are rewarded for your team should go to the highest dps or just make assists count as kills.
Capture the relic needs a pick up mechanic and a proper radius around the relic that rewards player's for killing & healing similar to domination flags.
Chaosball needs to rewards player's for protecting the ball carrier as well, as in killing not just healing.
Support play still needs a bit more tweaking for those who would rather play support rather than dps. I would also like to see more team play rewarded rather than selfish play. As it is now I could go 700k damage with 500k healing 7-2-20 but only finish second or third that shouldn't be the case.
In most cases the team with the person throwing heals or off heals usually wins and are typically the most valuable player, especially if you're a double threat.
Premades can be cancer still but it's no real way to fix that because solo queue only won't be possible with the amount of players that actively play.
Proxy detonation - I'd like to see a mark of the worm type proxy where you can harm yourself & everyone else including your teammates. I'm sure this would encourage team killing so it probably would never happen.0 -
NBrookus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭There is one thing missing from your post that needs to be in 48 point font, red lettering at the top:
FIX THE LAG.
Tried to return to Cyrodiil tonight after a break of a couple of weeks. Being nowhere near large groups, I will still experiencing lag, and when a lot of people were around? Latency of as high as 2-3 seconds, which is an *eternity* when you are trying to heal. Performance is possibly worse than it was just a couple of weeks ago.
You can change all the mechanics you want to, but when your character doesn't respond, the game is going to be more frustrating to play than not.0 -
frozywozy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭This guy nailed how emperorship and quests should work in Cyrodiil imo.Frozn - Stamdk - AR50
Frosted - Magplar - AR50
Frodn - Magden - AR50
Warmed - Magblade - AR50
Mmfrozy - Magsorc - AR44
Necrozn - Magcro - AR32
Twitch.TV/FrozyTV
PvP Group Builds
“Small minds discuss people, average minds discuss events, and great minds discuss ideas.” -Eleanor RooseveltSpoiler- Fix Volendrung (spawn location - weapon white on the map causing the wielder to keep it forever - usable with emperorship)
- Remove / Change CPs System, remove current CP/noCP campaigns and introduce one 30days with lock, one with no locks
- Fix crashes when approaching a keep under attack because of bad / wrong rendering prioritization system
- Change emperorship to value faction score points and not alliance points - see this and this
- Fix long loading screens (mostly caused by players joining group out of rendering range)
- Add 2 more quickslots to the wheel or add a different wheel for sieges weaponry only
- Fix Balista Bolts not dealing damage on walls or doors if deployed at a certain place
- Release bigger battlegrounds with 8 to 16 players per team and only two teams
- Fix the permanent block animation - see examples : link1 link2 link3 link4 link5
- Gives players 10 minutes to get back into Cyrodiil after relogging / crashing
- Add a function to ignore the Claiming system of useless rewards
- Improve the Mailing System / Rewards of the Worthy stacking
- Assign specific group sizes to specific campaigns (24-16-8)
- Make forward camps impossible to place near objectives
- Make snares only available from ground effects abilities
- Change emperorship to last minimum 24hours
- Fix body sliding after cc breaking too quickly
- Remove Block Casting through Battle Spirit
- Fix the speed drop while jumping - see video
- Fix loading screens when keeps upgrade
- Fix Rams going crazy (spinning around)
- Bring back dynamic ulti regeneration
- Fix speed bug (abilities locked)
- Introduce dynamic population
- Lower population cap by 20%
- Add Snare Immunity potions
- Bring resurrection sickness
- Fix character desync
- Fix cc breaking bug
- Fix gap closer bug
- Fix health desync
- Fix combat bug
- Fix streak bug
- Fix server lag
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zyk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The only thing ZOS needs to improve Cyrodiil: The will to do so.
I don't think ZOS is out of ideas. I think ZOS isn't really trying at all. If its execs had the will to make Cyrodiil an AAA experience, it would happen.
The true problem is that ZOS doesn't want to spend the money required so all we get are cheap, half-assed band-aids.
Edited by zyk on September 16, 2017 2:45AM3 -
Zer0oo✭✭✭✭✭
✭More flags it the only thing they will ever do to "improve" cyrodiil.
- Update 23Ice Furnace: This item set now grants Spell Damage, rather than Weapon Damage for the 4 piece bonus0 -
Kaeriz✭✭✭More flags it the only thing they will ever do to "improve" cyrodiil.
I actually think more flags would be quite nice step, especially since we need to be modest about our expectations from ZOS. It's not reasonable to expect dev hours when the pvp community - albeit a dedicated one - is a minority of a minority. @Joy_Division 's idea, as well as from a few others, of including flags out in the wild would add quite a variety of encounters in place we haven't had the opportunity to fight before."There are capture nodes all over Cyrodiil that flip about as quickly as the “domination” flags in Battlegrounds. These control a small region around them which is turned red, yellow, or blue on players Alliance war maps depending on which alliance controls them. Each are worth ½ Alliance point and serve to make it such that an alliance that “faction stacks” is guaranteed to lose a campaign."
I do wonder, however, if we're going to have the population to make this anything more than a solo hike in the woods
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Kaeriz✭✭✭There is one thing missing from your post that needs to be in 48 point font, red lettering at the top:
FIX THE LAG.
Tried to return to Cyrodiil tonight after a break of a couple of weeks. Being nowhere near large groups, I will still experiencing lag, and when a lot of people were around? Latency of as high as 2-3 seconds, which is an *eternity* when you are trying to heal. Performance is possibly worse than it was just a couple of weeks ago.
You can change all the mechanics you want to, but when your character doesn't respond, the game is going to be more frustrating to play than not.
Yah, it was rough last night. I honestly rarely have trouble w/ lag outside of when there's a last emp keep fight like there was last night. That lag will find you wherever you go. Another reason to fix the emp system.0 -
Vanthras79✭✭✭✭✭NecroNorion Germain - Telvanni Wizard, Covenant Battle Mage, Mage's Guild Magister, Resident of Daggerfall Overlook, Lord of Tel Galen, Psijic Monk, Antiquarian, Breton Scholar, and Traveler.1 -
BllyDnsr✭✭✭This post is awesome. Unfortunately, it's been here for almost a month and no Community Ambassador or ZOS employee cared to comment. That pretty much speaks volumes on how much ZOS cares about PvP and Cyrodiil. They don't care to revamp any of it. Why? Because we come back every day to it, we pay ESO Plus, we pay crowns for this or for that ... there's no incentive for them to want to change anything. DLCs are where they can make money and that's what they're going to continuously be cranking out so they can make more money. It's sad because PvP in this game could be amazing, especially if only half of these ideas came to fruition. But, I still hope that there's going to be another XB MMO that offers better PvP scenarios and maybe then they'll decide to do something. For now, they have us by the small hairs.Guildmaster of Obsidian Covenant.3 -
Rickter✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭@BllyDnsr
This is how i know youre just a hater. I need you to take a deep breath and read the following post by GINA BRUNO:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/4558210/#Comment_4558210
Now back off and admit eso is the best pvp mmorpg on the market.RickterESO
PC | NA | DC
YouTube
______________________
Guilds:PvP:SpoilerPvE:SpoilerBloodletter | StamDK | Alliance Rank 46 | Former Emperor of Shor (2018) | Former Emperor of Thornblade #4terms (2015)SpoilervAA HM | vHRC HM | vSO HM | vMA | vDSA | vMoL | ALL Vet 4 Man Dungeons3 -
BllyDnsr✭✭✭@Rickter
Being called names is, I believe, against the community rules @ZOS_GinaBruno ? And, being called one because I wasn't aware that there was a one-sentence response about this thread on a completely different thread? I think you need to spend some time not calling people haters just because they speak their opinion. You don't know me and I certainly don't need you to tell me to take a deep breath.Guildmaster of Obsidian Covenant.1 -
Rickter✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I consider it more an adjective. You were hating. Period. Inform yourself before condemning a company that works very hard to deliver a very amazing product to us all.RickterESO
PC | NA | DC
YouTube
______________________
Guilds:PvP:SpoilerPvE:SpoilerBloodletter | StamDK | Alliance Rank 46 | Former Emperor of Shor (2018) | Former Emperor of Thornblade #4terms (2015)SpoilervAA HM | vHRC HM | vSO HM | vMA | vDSA | vMoL | ALL Vet 4 Man Dungeons4 -
Wing✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I note I would like to add.
include "monster play" as another faction option.
this was my favorite thing about LOTRO and would be great in ESO
you get to choose from existing creatures such as various daedra, like dremora, spider daedra, daedroth, twilight, etc.
each has a base set of abilities based on what we see in game that kind of stick it in a classic archetype (twilight and spider daedra being more castery, daedroth being more tanky, dremora being more classic NB ish, etc.
you get AP as now towards your account.
spawn locations could be the various bridge areas around IC, or even a few way out on the edge of the map to encourage more map use.
I would also like to include some form of faction balance to prevent something like DC is full so all DC log as monsters and still effectively play for DC, so instead how about a buff to monsters that gives them a combat edge (damage reduction and armor, etc.) based on both population caps, and whatever faction holds the most keeps.
consider this the idea that molag bal does not want anyone winning and wants to keep the multi faction war going, so as one gains ground he would issue orders to attack that faction, etc.
if faction pop was cut a little bit, and added to monster faction pop, and monster were added as a 4th wild card faction, we would see much more random combats taking place through out the map, especially as monster could die and respawn anywhere around the IC meaning they can switch what faction they are attacking at a moments notice. as opposed to factions that spawn behind there line and are set up to hold a specific battle line.
Edited by Wing on October 17, 2017 5:17AMESO player since beta.
previously full time subscriber, beta-2024, game got too disappointing.
PC NA
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ArcVelarian✭✭✭✭✭In regards to making sieges challenging again: It seems that increasing wall/door HP as much as double or triple would be the simplest fix.Murphy's Law of PvP : If it can be abused and or exploited, it will be abused and or exploited.0 -
rafaelcsmaia✭✭✭✭✭
✭This thread is just fantastic! I really agree with most if not all the suggestions to improve cyro and pvp in general, cmon ZOS make it happen!0 -
Vizier✭✭✭✭✭
✭Been calling for this for years. Cyrodiil needs meaningful objectives AWAY FROM THE KEEPS. These Objectives need to offer substantial AP and should have some effect on the level of the keeps and buffs people get from scrolls.
But it's not going to make much difference unless they actually get PvP balance handled.0 -
gabriebe✭✭✭✭✭I'd like to see something as simple as a lightning ballista ignoring the immobilization and snare immunity from rapid maneuvers implemented. Or ice trebuchet immobilizing completely players for like 2 seconds, instead of a slow, also ignoring rapids immunity. Cold fire oils. Temporary barricades that can be taken down with spell and abilities like enemies. Synergies like an oil catapult and a fire ballista creating a ground fire. Cyrodiil could use a little creativity, especially in CP, since most ball groups can just rush the top and clean house really easily, ignoring most of the defense mechanics.
Or just something stupidly crazy, like an emp having a single-use ability that can be used to wipe every enemy within the keep radius, at the cost of being immediately deposed.
Edited by gabriebe on November 1, 2017 1:24PMFormer Empresses: Saliva Bortschion (MagBlade), Janet From Finance (PvP MagSorc), Carla Swagan (Tank DK), Estelle Born (StamBlade), Enya Arsenal (MagPlar), Anita Nurse (Magplar Healer), Bearback Brigitte (Magden), Rachel Justice (MagDK), Nicole From Payroll (Stamden), Bailiff Belinda (PvE MagSorc), Féline Dion (StamDK), Septic Tank Tina (Necro Tank)
The runts: The Trolly Spirit (Tank Sorc), Floods-Your-Basement (Warden Healer) Dinah Asthma (Magcro), Total Top Tony (Stamcro)
The traitors: Janis Javelin (Stamplar, EP), Barbecue Becky (Magblade Healer, AD)
PvE: Gryphon Heart, Immortal Redeemer, Flawless Conqueror
GM: Animal Control0