Sorcs and Favoritism

Stamden · April 2017

Magıc wrote: »

Neighbor wrote: »

@Magıc

Fine, keep them as non-crittable. But then they need to:

-Remove Bastion CP
-Remove Pirate Skeleton
-Increase cost for consecutive shield casts
-Remove the ability to stack Harness + other shields
-Reduce the magika received from Harness
-Add debuffs that reduce the effectiveness of shields

Honestly, the fact that shields can't be critted causes so much problems though. It just allows Sorcs to go full offense while every other class has to spec for impen. That just makes the damage Sorcs can do that much more ridiculous.

@Neighbor

-Bastion CP I'm not sure. Shields are fairly weak in Azura for example, especially vs proc sets and with proc sets about to enter the CP meta again due to the sustain changes, I'm hesistant. Nerf it? Sure. I maybe should have been reduced to 15% instead of staying at 25%.
-Pirate I agree
-Increase cost for consecutive shield casts I disagree on. Why? Because if you've seen a Sorc without shields down, they can literally get killed within 2 or 3 seconds from full health, 1 second from full health by stam warden currently on PTS (stam warden is actually disgusting in duels, not sure about open world). However this links heavily with harness/dampen. They shouldn't stack. One of the best sorcs in EU (Derra) plays with only hardened as do many others. If they're forced to take damage just to sustain that's completely game breaking for sorcs.
-As I said, harness/dampen shouldn't stack with hardened, links with the previous point.
-Reduce it I agree. I gain magicka from casting harness lol...
-Debuffs to shields? Not sure at the moment. Same as the bastion CP point. They aren't going to be very strong vs proc sets when they return to the meta so having debuffs on them as well will only kill them off and kill off sorc as a class. If proc sets weren't a thing you could maybe argue for this/bastion CP changes.

Sorcs aren't 'godlike' right now except vs Stamblades imo. Also, ask the top sorcs whether they run impen on their gear or divines/other traits. Almost every sorc runs impen (I personally run a mixture of impen/infused/well fitted) even with shields because one mistake can literally cost your life as a sorc. On a stamdk for example you can make mistake after mistake after mistake for 10 minutes straight and not die.

I'm not a mag sorc main either. I'm a stamDK main and forever will be (#stamDKlivesmatter). But I've played enough of it, observed and played with and fought some of the best sorcs in EU to know the class quite well.

At least you're more reasonable than 90% of the Sorc players on here that are completely delusional about how broken their class is.

So what we can agree on is: Bastion Nerf to 15% or removed entirely, Pirate Skeleton changed in a way that doesn't work with shields, Harness doesn't stack, Harness magika return nerf

I really don't think that is enough, but it would be a start I suppose. Mag Sorcs would still be the best PvP class significantly, but maybe in conjuction with nerfs to actual Sorc skills/passives they could be brought down to a reasonable level.

Malamar1229 · April 2017

Neighbor you are not very nice, I would not like you to be my neighbor.
-Mr Rogers

Anti_Virus · April 2017

Malamar1229 wrote: »

Neighbor you are not very nice, I would not like you to be my neighbor.
-Mr Rogers

Lol.

Stamden · April 2017

Malamar1229 wrote: »

Neighbor you are not very nice, I would not like you to be my neighbor.
-Mr Rogers

I think it's not very nice to pretend like Sorcs are even remotely balanced at the moment.

Emmagoldman · April 2017

The fact that people say this and that nbs were good for one patch show how new they are to the game. They missed the days of perma roll dodging. And 1 patch, by that do you mean db, hist and one tameriel? Even before that nbs were strong as hell

Keep outing yourselves as proc set baddies

Tino1008 · April 2017

My PvE view is Sorcs got only Strong with One Tamriel.

When MoL launched Sorcs werent this good. They were solid but outparsed by every NB.

One Tamriel and Ilambris gave them a huge push in PvE and this was the time NB got nothing and at this time the Sorc got stronger than the NB. So now we are talking about OneTamriel patch and what happened after that.

Homestead dropped pet got into place and yes Sorc DPS is insane on live atm.

I play a sorc and i must say that i dont like the meta in PvE because its boring to see like 6 Sorcs in a Raid all with the damn annoying pets. If the sorc cant play with pet its pretty balanced imo because you lose like 3-4k DPS. Maybe its stil high but its lower than DK's and Templars can do and it should be abit above NB. Im talking here about the highest Parses archieved or archieveable on those classes.

So sorc pet build needs a nerf but in PvE Sorc would be balanced again if pets wouldnt be viable.

Stamden · April 2017

Found this on reddit lol

KramUzibra · April 2017

Ashnunn wrote: »

Shields will cost more - moving points over to regen will take away from max magicka = reduced shield size.

Shield spamming, while still possible, will be much harder

Same goes for the offensive attacker! If sustain is getting nerfed across the board for all classes then the op Shield stacking remains the same

Idinuse · April 2017

Dracane wrote: »

Completely disagree with everything from OP.
I kill mag Sorcs easier than anything. I think they are the easiest to counter, easiest to burst down and least threatening overall. And Sorcs were waiting for buffsa very long time, we were left in the cold for a very long time until we received (mostly indirect) buffs that everyone can profit from.

Sorcs rarely received anything personal besides nerfs. The only true buffs we have received were pet buffs, that most people don't even want to use. Sorcerer has remained almost untouched since so many updates and most people I encounter know just exactly how to deal with streak and shields in general. You really should calm down.

I so agree with you, in fact for me, I kill Templars easier than anything. Their pathetic stuns they had from Blazing Shield, their ridiculously low hits with RD, even the execute was so easy to counter, so easy to move out of their Jabs. As soon as their arms go up in the air to brainlessly BoL spam, I interrupted and simply face melted them. And yet they received nerf after nerf after nerf, well even more than your Sorc class, I mean those Sorcs you are killing so easily. No, no. Templars have always been the weakest class in the game for me. And Templars have been waiting for buffs, usable passives, and less channeled or cast time skills. But no. They received the hardest nerfs in the game. Again.

And yet they are the easiest kills for me. All my friends and most people know exactly how to neutralize almost anything a Templar can do by now. People really should have calmed down in regards to Templars, now look at the poor souls.

(Btw, as you play a Sorc, I do main a Templar, 5.000+ hours, ridiculous don't you agree?)

DeathlurkZ · April 2017

Dont nerf sorcs, buff everyone else...

Not Me, Not Now! Say NO to Nerfs!

Xsorus · April 2017

Malamar1229 wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Its really simple

Protection doesn't need to work against Shields.

Increase Shield Cost

Those two changes would fix a lot of issues.

OK, then I want mobility back since light armor offers no protection. like taking it easy on the streak stacking cost increase, or adding snare immunity to streaking....or boundless storm removing snares.

And dont tell me sorcs are the most mobile when everone can spam a gap closer just as fast as we streak, and stam sorc just lol.

I play a Sorc, and the fact you think that everyone can just spam a gap closer is pretty hilarious....*grin*

Dracane · April 2017

Idinuse wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Completely disagree with everything from OP.
I kill mag Sorcs easier than anything. I think they are the easiest to counter, easiest to burst down and least threatening overall. And Sorcs were waiting for buffsa very long time, we were left in the cold for a very long time until we received (mostly indirect) buffs that everyone can profit from.

Sorcs rarely received anything personal besides nerfs. The only true buffs we have received were pet buffs, that most people don't even want to use. Sorcerer has remained almost untouched since so many updates and most people I encounter know just exactly how to deal with streak and shields in general. You really should calm down.

I so agree with you, in fact for me, I kill Templars easier than anything. Their pathetic stuns they had from Blazing Shield, their ridiculously low hits with RD, even the execute was so easy to counter, so easy to move out of their Jabs. As soon as their arms go up in the air to brainlessly BoL spam, I interrupted and simply face melted them. And yet they received nerf after nerf after nerf, well even more than your Sorc class, I mean those Sorcs you are killing so easily. No, no. Templars have always been the weakest class in the game for me. And Templars have been waiting for buffs, usable passives, and less channeled or cast time skills. But no. They received the hardest nerfs in the game. Again.

And yet they are the easiest kills for me. All my friends and most people know exactly how to neutralize almost anything a Templar can do by now. People really should have calmed down in regards to Templars, now look at the poor souls.

(Btw, as you play a Sorc, I do main a Templar, 5.000+ hours, ridiculous don't you agree?)

But Magicka Templar was considered the strongest by everyone just until recently. They are the most cancerous and immortal class and are the biggest pain to deal with. When fighting a group of enemies, I do not fear the DDs or so. No; i fear nothing but the Templar. In my eyes, it's a completely overpowered class.

Firerock2 · April 2017

Dracane wrote: »

Idinuse wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Completely disagree with everything from OP.
I kill mag Sorcs easier than anything. I think they are the easiest to counter, easiest to burst down and least threatening overall. And Sorcs were waiting for buffsa very long time, we were left in the cold for a very long time until we received (mostly indirect) buffs that everyone can profit from.

Sorcs rarely received anything personal besides nerfs. The only true buffs we have received were pet buffs, that most people don't even want to use. Sorcerer has remained almost untouched since so many updates and most people I encounter know just exactly how to deal with streak and shields in general. You really should calm down.

I so agree with you, in fact for me, I kill Templars easier than anything. Their pathetic stuns they had from Blazing Shield, their ridiculously low hits with RD, even the execute was so easy to counter, so easy to move out of their Jabs. As soon as their arms go up in the air to brainlessly BoL spam, I interrupted and simply face melted them. And yet they received nerf after nerf after nerf, well even more than your Sorc class, I mean those Sorcs you are killing so easily. No, no. Templars have always been the weakest class in the game for me. And Templars have been waiting for buffs, usable passives, and less channeled or cast time skills. But no. They received the hardest nerfs in the game. Again.

And yet they are the easiest kills for me. All my friends and most people know exactly how to neutralize almost anything a Templar can do by now. People really should have calmed down in regards to Templars, now look at the poor souls.

(Btw, as you play a Sorc, I do main a Templar, 5.000+ hours, ridiculous don't you agree?)

But Magicka Templar was considered the strongest by everyone just until recently. They are the most cancerous and immortal class and are the biggest pain to deal with. When fighting a group of enemies, I do not fear the DDs or so. No; i fear nothing but the Templar. In my eyes, it's a completely overpowered class.

You should get your eyes checked

Idinuse · April 2017

Dracane wrote: »

Idinuse wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Completely disagree with everything from OP.
I kill mag Sorcs easier than anything. I think they are the easiest to counter, easiest to burst down and least threatening overall. And Sorcs were waiting for buffsa very long time, we were left in the cold for a very long time until we received (mostly indirect) buffs that everyone can profit from.

Sorcs rarely received anything personal besides nerfs. The only true buffs we have received were pet buffs, that most people don't even want to use. Sorcerer has remained almost untouched since so many updates and most people I encounter know just exactly how to deal with streak and shields in general. You really should calm down.

I so agree with you, in fact for me, I kill Templars easier than anything. Their pathetic stuns they had from Blazing Shield, their ridiculously low hits with RD, even the execute was so easy to counter, so easy to move out of their Jabs. As soon as their arms go up in the air to brainlessly BoL spam, I interrupted and simply face melted them. And yet they received nerf after nerf after nerf, well even more than your Sorc class, I mean those Sorcs you are killing so easily. No, no. Templars have always been the weakest class in the game for me. And Templars have been waiting for buffs, usable passives, and less channeled or cast time skills. But no. They received the hardest nerfs in the game. Again.

And yet they are the easiest kills for me. All my friends and most people know exactly how to neutralize almost anything a Templar can do by now. People really should have calmed down in regards to Templars, now look at the poor souls.

(Btw, as you play a Sorc, I do main a Templar, 5.000+ hours, ridiculous don't you agree?)

But Magicka Templar was considered the strongest by everyone just until recently. They are the most cancerous and immortal class and are the biggest pain to deal with. When fighting a group of enemies, I do not fear the DDs or so. No; i fear nothing but the Templar. In my eyes, it's a completely overpowered class.

Oh I knew that was your stand on Templar just from your first post. Don't worry. It's just so laughable that everything you say about the Sorcs in their defence, is perfectly applicable on Templars too. And most people with insight in this game called for HA nerfs, while people like you were calling for nerfs to both HA and Templars. But then again you might well have found that HA worked well for you, leaving only Templar nerfs in your argument?

Also, the Templar hate was over shining how overly OP sorc have been for so long, now that they got what they wanted and completely obliterated the class form PvP and PvE as utility/healers, Sorcs stand out like the untouchable dev fav OP class they are like a gigantic lighthouse.

Vosital · April 2017

Neighbor wrote: »

Malamar1229 wrote: »

Neighbor you are not very nice, I would not like you to be my neighbor.
-Mr Rogers

I think it's not very nice to pretend like Sorcs are even remotely balanced at the moment.

Really, I can't even blame the Sorc mains for trying to BS the devs. It is simply human nature to give yourself all the advantages you can get. Sorcs mains don't care for the actual state of balance, or what's good for the game. They want to run around like demi-gods even if it completely ruins Battlegrounds and the PvP experience for the rest of the playerbase.

Expecting Sorcs to be honest about their class is like expecting Billionaires to agree to a tax increase, it's just not going to happen. The blame really falls on the devs. If they were actually not completely biased and didn't blatantly favorite one class, then this wouldn't be a problem.

nursingninja · April 2017

Sorcs are not superior, you just need to learn to play your class OP.

Dracane · April 2017

Idinuse wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Idinuse wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Completely disagree with everything from OP.
I kill mag Sorcs easier than anything. I think they are the easiest to counter, easiest to burst down and least threatening overall. And Sorcs were waiting for buffsa very long time, we were left in the cold for a very long time until we received (mostly indirect) buffs that everyone can profit from.

Sorcs rarely received anything personal besides nerfs. The only true buffs we have received were pet buffs, that most people don't even want to use. Sorcerer has remained almost untouched since so many updates and most people I encounter know just exactly how to deal with streak and shields in general. You really should calm down.

I so agree with you, in fact for me, I kill Templars easier than anything. Their pathetic stuns they had from Blazing Shield, their ridiculously low hits with RD, even the execute was so easy to counter, so easy to move out of their Jabs. As soon as their arms go up in the air to brainlessly BoL spam, I interrupted and simply face melted them. And yet they received nerf after nerf after nerf, well even more than your Sorc class, I mean those Sorcs you are killing so easily. No, no. Templars have always been the weakest class in the game for me. And Templars have been waiting for buffs, usable passives, and less channeled or cast time skills. But no. They received the hardest nerfs in the game. Again.

And yet they are the easiest kills for me. All my friends and most people know exactly how to neutralize almost anything a Templar can do by now. People really should have calmed down in regards to Templars, now look at the poor souls.

(Btw, as you play a Sorc, I do main a Templar, 5.000+ hours, ridiculous don't you agree?)

But Magicka Templar was considered the strongest by everyone just until recently. They are the most cancerous and immortal class and are the biggest pain to deal with. When fighting a group of enemies, I do not fear the DDs or so. No; i fear nothing but the Templar. In my eyes, it's a completely overpowered class.

Oh I knew that was your stand on Templar just from your first post. Don't worry. It's just so laughable that everything you say about the Sorcs in their defence, is perfectly applicable on Templars too. And most people with insight in this game called for HA nerfs, while people like you were calling for nerfs to both HA and Templars. But then again you might well have found that HA worked well for you, leaving only Templar nerfs in your argument?

Also, the Templar hate was over shining how overly OP sorc have been for so long, now that they got what they wanted and completely obliterated the class form PvP and PvE as utility/healers, Sorcs stand out like the untouchable dev fav OP class they are like a gigantic lighthouse.

Even funnier is, that you and many others claim, that Sorc would be their favorite class

Sorc always was their unwanted child and they said forever, that they are happy with how Sorc is and that they see no need to do anything. And you know it, if you aren't blind. And in fact, they never did anything for Sorcs. Sorcs only benefited from buffs to or nerfs to other things, personally they never even received a bone outside of pet buffs.

Same could be said about Templars, but their reign began when purifying ritual was so sickly overbuffed. Could be that templars are only strong thanks to HA or certain sets, but they also have a very efficient toolset at hands. All that combined, makes them so strong in pvp and really EVERYONE I have ever talked to complains about magicka templars, even many templars themselves. Even the best Templar EU (imo) agrees. Please, wake up.

I'm not even defending Sorcs in any way. I personally feel like they are alright at the moment (if you are a pet sorc, normal sorc is underwhelming) I don't see anything they should nerf or buff. Dark deal definately needs adjusment, but that's all for me.

Ashamray · April 2017

Dracane wrote: »

Idinuse wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Idinuse wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Completely disagree with everything from OP.
I kill mag Sorcs easier than anything. I think they are the easiest to counter, easiest to burst down and least threatening overall. And Sorcs were waiting for buffsa very long time, we were left in the cold for a very long time until we received (mostly indirect) buffs that everyone can profit from.

Sorcs rarely received anything personal besides nerfs. The only true buffs we have received were pet buffs, that most people don't even want to use. Sorcerer has remained almost untouched since so many updates and most people I encounter know just exactly how to deal with streak and shields in general. You really should calm down.

I so agree with you, in fact for me, I kill Templars easier than anything. Their pathetic stuns they had from Blazing Shield, their ridiculously low hits with RD, even the execute was so easy to counter, so easy to move out of their Jabs. As soon as their arms go up in the air to brainlessly BoL spam, I interrupted and simply face melted them. And yet they received nerf after nerf after nerf, well even more than your Sorc class, I mean those Sorcs you are killing so easily. No, no. Templars have always been the weakest class in the game for me. And Templars have been waiting for buffs, usable passives, and less channeled or cast time skills. But no. They received the hardest nerfs in the game. Again.

And yet they are the easiest kills for me. All my friends and most people know exactly how to neutralize almost anything a Templar can do by now. People really should have calmed down in regards to Templars, now look at the poor souls.

(Btw, as you play a Sorc, I do main a Templar, 5.000+ hours, ridiculous don't you agree?)

But Magicka Templar was considered the strongest by everyone just until recently. They are the most cancerous and immortal class and are the biggest pain to deal with. When fighting a group of enemies, I do not fear the DDs or so. No; i fear nothing but the Templar. In my eyes, it's a completely overpowered class.

Oh I knew that was your stand on Templar just from your first post. Don't worry. It's just so laughable that everything you say about the Sorcs in their defence, is perfectly applicable on Templars too. And most people with insight in this game called for HA nerfs, while people like you were calling for nerfs to both HA and Templars. But then again you might well have found that HA worked well for you, leaving only Templar nerfs in your argument?

Also, the Templar hate was over shining how overly OP sorc have been for so long, now that they got what they wanted and completely obliterated the class form PvP and PvE as utility/healers, Sorcs stand out like the untouchable dev fav OP class they are like a gigantic lighthouse.

Even funnier is, that you and many others claim, that Sorc would be their favorite class Sorc always was their unwanted child and they said forever, that they are happy with how Sorc is and that they see no need to do anything. And you know it, if you aren't blind. And in fact, they never did anything for Sorcs. Sorcs only benefited from buffs to or nerfs to other things, personally they never even received a bone outside of pet buffs.

Same could be said about Templars, but their reign began when purifying ritual was so sickly overbuffed. Could be that templars are only strong thanks to HA or certain sets, but they also have a very efficient toolset at hands. All that combined, makes them so strong in pvp and really EVERYONE I have ever talked to complains about magicka templars, even many templars themselves. Even the best Templar EU (imo) agrees. Please, wake up.

I'm not even defending Sorcs in any way. I personally feel like they are alright at the moment (if you are a pet sorc, normal sorc is underwhelming) I don't see anything they should nerf or buff. Dark deal definately needs adjusment, but that's all for me.

Woah, Dracane, stop please.
You are mixing too many things in one word "Templar". Reading your complains (which looks like an attempt to defend Sorcs via attacking Templars), I do see one funny thing: you're a damage oriented player that becomes angry if target doesn't die, so I make a conclusion that all your "rage" about Templar can be called shortly
A healbot.
I must admit there are a lot of Templar healers in pvp (but not DDs!) coz healer is a bit easier to play. You can equip several overpowerd sets, literally spam BoL and purge, block sometimes - and have a success without much efforts.
When you switch to DD - magicka or stamina - you find amusing clumsiness of the class as it is. No one has so many problems with simple damage dealing like Templars have. Now, since Backlash became viable, this problem isn't so sharp, but every player who knows how Jabs \ Sweeps work, how vulnerable to roots Templars are - such players use this knowledge to ruin Templar damage. Others, who doesn't, get melted quickly, of course - but not as quickly as sorc can melt them with curse, frags and fury.

As Cinbri wrote, Templar's gameplay will be more healthy in Morrowind, and it's fine. Not fine is that people make a mess with different specs of Templar thinking that healbot permablocker can deal huge damage or a huge damage dealer can tank a group while healing his mates in one cast without going OOM

Malamar1229 · April 2017

Xsorus wrote: »

Malamar1229 wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Its really simple

Protection doesn't need to work against Shields.

Increase Shield Cost

Those two changes would fix a lot of issues.

OK, then I want mobility back since light armor offers no protection. like taking it easy on the streak stacking cost increase, or adding snare immunity to streaking....or boundless storm removing snares.

And dont tell me sorcs are the most mobile when everone can spam a gap closer just as fast as we streak, and stam sorc just lol.

I play a Sorc, and the fact you think that everyone can just spam a gap closer is pretty hilarious....*grin*

a bit of an exaggeration, but the 1vX guys like myself dont bother with perma block builds that lack mobility. I do play 1 of each class/build (minus stamdk and mblade)

theyre irrelevant to the argument. Bolt Escape is worthless when used for what it is (escape). No ones trying to ever escape a healplar or permablock build.

KramUzibra · April 2017

Vosital wrote: »

Neighbor wrote: »

Malamar1229 wrote: »

Neighbor you are not very nice, I would not like you to be my neighbor.
-Mr Rogers

I think it's not very nice to pretend like Sorcs are even remotely balanced at the moment.

Really, I can't even blame the Sorc mains for trying to BS the devs. It is simply human nature to give yourself all the advantages you can get. Sorcs mains don't care for the actual state of balance, or what's good for the game. They want to run around like demi-gods even if it completely ruins Battlegrounds and the PvP experience for the rest of the playerbase.

Expecting Sorcs to be honest about their class is like expecting Billionaires to agree to a tax increase, it's just not going to happen. The blame really falls on the devs. If they were actually not completely biased and didn't blatantly favorite one class, then this wouldn't be a problem.

Well said!!

Dracane · April 2017

Ashamray wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Idinuse wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Idinuse wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Completely disagree with everything from OP.
I kill mag Sorcs easier than anything. I think they are the easiest to counter, easiest to burst down and least threatening overall. And Sorcs were waiting for buffsa very long time, we were left in the cold for a very long time until we received (mostly indirect) buffs that everyone can profit from.

Sorcs rarely received anything personal besides nerfs. The only true buffs we have received were pet buffs, that most people don't even want to use. Sorcerer has remained almost untouched since so many updates and most people I encounter know just exactly how to deal with streak and shields in general. You really should calm down.

I so agree with you, in fact for me, I kill Templars easier than anything. Their pathetic stuns they had from Blazing Shield, their ridiculously low hits with RD, even the execute was so easy to counter, so easy to move out of their Jabs. As soon as their arms go up in the air to brainlessly BoL spam, I interrupted and simply face melted them. And yet they received nerf after nerf after nerf, well even more than your Sorc class, I mean those Sorcs you are killing so easily. No, no. Templars have always been the weakest class in the game for me. And Templars have been waiting for buffs, usable passives, and less channeled or cast time skills. But no. They received the hardest nerfs in the game. Again.

And yet they are the easiest kills for me. All my friends and most people know exactly how to neutralize almost anything a Templar can do by now. People really should have calmed down in regards to Templars, now look at the poor souls.

(Btw, as you play a Sorc, I do main a Templar, 5.000+ hours, ridiculous don't you agree?)

But Magicka Templar was considered the strongest by everyone just until recently. They are the most cancerous and immortal class and are the biggest pain to deal with. When fighting a group of enemies, I do not fear the DDs or so. No; i fear nothing but the Templar. In my eyes, it's a completely overpowered class.

Oh I knew that was your stand on Templar just from your first post. Don't worry. It's just so laughable that everything you say about the Sorcs in their defence, is perfectly applicable on Templars too. And most people with insight in this game called for HA nerfs, while people like you were calling for nerfs to both HA and Templars. But then again you might well have found that HA worked well for you, leaving only Templar nerfs in your argument?

Also, the Templar hate was over shining how overly OP sorc have been for so long, now that they got what they wanted and completely obliterated the class form PvP and PvE as utility/healers, Sorcs stand out like the untouchable dev fav OP class they are like a gigantic lighthouse.

Even funnier is, that you and many others claim, that Sorc would be their favorite class Sorc always was their unwanted child and they said forever, that they are happy with how Sorc is and that they see no need to do anything. And you know it, if you aren't blind. And in fact, they never did anything for Sorcs. Sorcs only benefited from buffs to or nerfs to other things, personally they never even received a bone outside of pet buffs.

Same could be said about Templars, but their reign began when purifying ritual was so sickly overbuffed. Could be that templars are only strong thanks to HA or certain sets, but they also have a very efficient toolset at hands. All that combined, makes them so strong in pvp and really EVERYONE I have ever talked to complains about magicka templars, even many templars themselves. Even the best Templar EU (imo) agrees. Please, wake up.

I'm not even defending Sorcs in any way. I personally feel like they are alright at the moment (if you are a pet sorc, normal sorc is underwhelming) I don't see anything they should nerf or buff. Dark deal definately needs adjusment, but that's all for me.

Woah, Dracane, stop please.
You are mixing too many things in one word "Templar". Reading your complains (which looks like an attempt to defend Sorcs via attacking Templars), I do see one funny thing: you're a damage oriented player that becomes angry if target doesn't die, so I make a conclusion that all your "rage" about Templar can be called shortly
A healbot.
I must admit there are a lot of Templar healers in pvp (but not DDs!) coz healer is a bit easier to play. You can equip several overpowerd sets, literally spam BoL and purge, block sometimes - and have a success without much efforts.
When you switch to DD - magicka or stamina - you find amusing clumsiness of the class as it is. No one has so many problems with simple damage dealing like Templars have. Now, since Backlash became viable, this problem isn't so sharp, but every player who knows how Jabs \ Sweeps work, how vulnerable to roots Templars are - such players use this knowledge to ruin Templar damage. Others, who doesn't, get melted quickly, of course - but not as quickly as sorc can melt them with curse, frags and fury.

As Cinbri wrote, Templar's gameplay will be more healthy in Morrowind, and it's fine. Not fine is that people make a mess with different specs of Templar thinking that healbot permablocker can deal huge damage or a huge damage dealer can tank a group while healing his mates in one cast without going OOM

Yea of course that hate is for group healbots. But I also think they are the mightiest 1v1 class by a large margin. They have everything and it's making them so much more lethal than any other opponent I could think of. Highest damage by far, highest survivability anyway and 1 button for just everything.

Kilandros · April 2017

Dracane wrote: »

Idinuse wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Completely disagree with everything from OP.
I kill mag Sorcs easier than anything. I think they are the easiest to counter, easiest to burst down and least threatening overall. And Sorcs were waiting for buffsa very long time, we were left in the cold for a very long time until we received (mostly indirect) buffs that everyone can profit from.

Sorcs rarely received anything personal besides nerfs. The only true buffs we have received were pet buffs, that most people don't even want to use. Sorcerer has remained almost untouched since so many updates and most people I encounter know just exactly how to deal with streak and shields in general. You really should calm down.

I so agree with you, in fact for me, I kill Templars easier than anything. Their pathetic stuns they had from Blazing Shield, their ridiculously low hits with RD, even the execute was so easy to counter, so easy to move out of their Jabs. As soon as their arms go up in the air to brainlessly BoL spam, I interrupted and simply face melted them. And yet they received nerf after nerf after nerf, well even more than your Sorc class, I mean those Sorcs you are killing so easily. No, no. Templars have always been the weakest class in the game for me. And Templars have been waiting for buffs, usable passives, and less channeled or cast time skills. But no. They received the hardest nerfs in the game. Again.

And yet they are the easiest kills for me. All my friends and most people know exactly how to neutralize almost anything a Templar can do by now. People really should have calmed down in regards to Templars, now look at the poor souls.

(Btw, as you play a Sorc, I do main a Templar, 5.000+ hours, ridiculous don't you agree?)

But Magicka Templar was considered the strongest by everyone just until recently. They are the most cancerous and immortal class and are the biggest pain to deal with. When fighting a group of enemies, I do not fear the DDs or so. No; i fear nothing but the Templar. In my eyes, it's a completely overpowered class.

Templar hasn't been the PvE or PvP meta for months. Sorcerer has been outperforming every class in both PvP and PvE for nearly 6 months now. It has the highest PvE DPS, the highest vMA scores, and is the most popular class in Cyro.

Dracane · April 2017

Kilandros wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Idinuse wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Completely disagree with everything from OP.
I kill mag Sorcs easier than anything. I think they are the easiest to counter, easiest to burst down and least threatening overall. And Sorcs were waiting for buffsa very long time, we were left in the cold for a very long time until we received (mostly indirect) buffs that everyone can profit from.

Sorcs rarely received anything personal besides nerfs. The only true buffs we have received were pet buffs, that most people don't even want to use. Sorcerer has remained almost untouched since so many updates and most people I encounter know just exactly how to deal with streak and shields in general. You really should calm down.

I so agree with you, in fact for me, I kill Templars easier than anything. Their pathetic stuns they had from Blazing Shield, their ridiculously low hits with RD, even the execute was so easy to counter, so easy to move out of their Jabs. As soon as their arms go up in the air to brainlessly BoL spam, I interrupted and simply face melted them. And yet they received nerf after nerf after nerf, well even more than your Sorc class, I mean those Sorcs you are killing so easily. No, no. Templars have always been the weakest class in the game for me. And Templars have been waiting for buffs, usable passives, and less channeled or cast time skills. But no. They received the hardest nerfs in the game. Again.

And yet they are the easiest kills for me. All my friends and most people know exactly how to neutralize almost anything a Templar can do by now. People really should have calmed down in regards to Templars, now look at the poor souls.

(Btw, as you play a Sorc, I do main a Templar, 5.000+ hours, ridiculous don't you agree?)

But Magicka Templar was considered the strongest by everyone just until recently. They are the most cancerous and immortal class and are the biggest pain to deal with. When fighting a group of enemies, I do not fear the DDs or so. No; i fear nothing but the Templar. In my eyes, it's a completely overpowered class.

Templar hasn't been the PvE or PvP meta for months. Sorcerer has been outperforming every class in both PvP and PvE for nearly 6 months now. It has the highest PvE DPS, the highest vMA scores, and is the most popular class in Cyro.

Strange, all I ever see are DKs and Templars and the Sorcs that I see, I just roll over them and enjoy the free AP.
But really nothing outshines everything as much as Templars do and I know I'm by far not alone with this opinion. Perhaps Forum Warriors are just a different kind of people. But in game people are perfectly aware of it.

I'm aware of the pve dps thing and vMA though. But well, this has nothing to do with pvp really, where Sorc damage, in my opinion, is lackluster unless you are a decent petsorc

Izaki · April 2017

Dracane wrote: »

Kilandros wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Idinuse wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Completely disagree with everything from OP.
I kill mag Sorcs easier than anything. I think they are the easiest to counter, easiest to burst down and least threatening overall. And Sorcs were waiting for buffsa very long time, we were left in the cold for a very long time until we received (mostly indirect) buffs that everyone can profit from.

Sorcs rarely received anything personal besides nerfs. The only true buffs we have received were pet buffs, that most people don't even want to use. Sorcerer has remained almost untouched since so many updates and most people I encounter know just exactly how to deal with streak and shields in general. You really should calm down.

I so agree with you, in fact for me, I kill Templars easier than anything. Their pathetic stuns they had from Blazing Shield, their ridiculously low hits with RD, even the execute was so easy to counter, so easy to move out of their Jabs. As soon as their arms go up in the air to brainlessly BoL spam, I interrupted and simply face melted them. And yet they received nerf after nerf after nerf, well even more than your Sorc class, I mean those Sorcs you are killing so easily. No, no. Templars have always been the weakest class in the game for me. And Templars have been waiting for buffs, usable passives, and less channeled or cast time skills. But no. They received the hardest nerfs in the game. Again.

And yet they are the easiest kills for me. All my friends and most people know exactly how to neutralize almost anything a Templar can do by now. People really should have calmed down in regards to Templars, now look at the poor souls.

(Btw, as you play a Sorc, I do main a Templar, 5.000+ hours, ridiculous don't you agree?)

But Magicka Templar was considered the strongest by everyone just until recently. They are the most cancerous and immortal class and are the biggest pain to deal with. When fighting a group of enemies, I do not fear the DDs or so. No; i fear nothing but the Templar. In my eyes, it's a completely overpowered class.

Templar hasn't been the PvE or PvP meta for months. Sorcerer has been outperforming every class in both PvP and PvE for nearly 6 months now. It has the highest PvE DPS, the highest vMA scores, and is the most popular class in Cyro.

Strange, all I ever see are DKs and Templars and the Sorcs that I see, I just roll over them and enjoy the free AP.
But really nothing outshines everything as much as Templars do and I know I'm by far not alone with this opinion. Perhaps Forum Warriors are just a different kind of people. But in game people are perfectly aware of it.

I'm aware of the pve dps thing and vMA though. But well, this has nothing to do with pvp really, where Sorc damage, in my opinion, is lackluster unless you are a decent petsorc

Don't bother... They are so set on thinking that Sorcs are "demi-gods" that nothing can change their mind.

Autolycus · April 2017

Ashnunn wrote: »

Shields will cost more - moving points over to regen will take away from max magicka = reduced shield size.

Shield spamming, while still possible, will be much harder

Except the nerfs to Hardy and Elemental Defender impose such severe diminishing returns that dozens of points can easily be reallocated to Bastion. Plus this nerf is far less severe for mag Sorcs, damage reduction passives like these two don't apply as long as a shield is active. An experienced sorc will have their shield up when it's appropriate, so an argument can be made for far less points here than many would suggest, so it makes an even stronger case for Bastion in lieu of DR.

Kilandros · April 2017

Dracane wrote: »

Kilandros wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Idinuse wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Completely disagree with everything from OP.
I kill mag Sorcs easier than anything. I think they are the easiest to counter, easiest to burst down and least threatening overall. And Sorcs were waiting for buffsa very long time, we were left in the cold for a very long time until we received (mostly indirect) buffs that everyone can profit from.

Sorcs rarely received anything personal besides nerfs. The only true buffs we have received were pet buffs, that most people don't even want to use. Sorcerer has remained almost untouched since so many updates and most people I encounter know just exactly how to deal with streak and shields in general. You really should calm down.

I so agree with you, in fact for me, I kill Templars easier than anything. Their pathetic stuns they had from Blazing Shield, their ridiculously low hits with RD, even the execute was so easy to counter, so easy to move out of their Jabs. As soon as their arms go up in the air to brainlessly BoL spam, I interrupted and simply face melted them. And yet they received nerf after nerf after nerf, well even more than your Sorc class, I mean those Sorcs you are killing so easily. No, no. Templars have always been the weakest class in the game for me. And Templars have been waiting for buffs, usable passives, and less channeled or cast time skills. But no. They received the hardest nerfs in the game. Again.

And yet they are the easiest kills for me. All my friends and most people know exactly how to neutralize almost anything a Templar can do by now. People really should have calmed down in regards to Templars, now look at the poor souls.

(Btw, as you play a Sorc, I do main a Templar, 5.000+ hours, ridiculous don't you agree?)

But Magicka Templar was considered the strongest by everyone just until recently. They are the most cancerous and immortal class and are the biggest pain to deal with. When fighting a group of enemies, I do not fear the DDs or so. No; i fear nothing but the Templar. In my eyes, it's a completely overpowered class.

Templar hasn't been the PvE or PvP meta for months. Sorcerer has been outperforming every class in both PvP and PvE for nearly 6 months now. It has the highest PvE DPS, the highest vMA scores, and is the most popular class in Cyro.

Strange, all I ever see are DKs and Templars and the Sorcs that I see, I just roll over them and enjoy the free AP.
But really nothing outshines everything as much as Templars do and I know I'm by far not alone with this opinion. Perhaps Forum Warriors are just a different kind of people. But in game people are perfectly aware of it.

I'm aware of the pve dps thing and vMA though. But well, this has nothing to do with pvp really, where Sorc damage, in my opinion, is lackluster unless you are a decent petsorc

I don't know you as a player, but if you're complaining about Sorc damage in PvP I suspect it's a L2P issue (I hate using that). Sorcerer's are far and away the class with the best burst on live.

Autolycus · April 2017

Beardimus wrote: »

I presume you didn't play a MagSorc in 2016? Stamina had their day.

All Mag classes got the 8%, Sorc just got the extra curse in U13, and scamp pulses hardly enough to warrant the QQ. Dual Wield sorcs got a NERF, Overload sorc's got a NERF - or did you miss those?

People that couldn't kill Sorcs in 2016 still cant is all. And most decent players Whack-A-Mole with Sorcs as they always did since the Wards got nerfed to 6 secs.

Try active defence with the sustain changes in U14 and you'll see what I mean. if you are warding you aint attacking and ur burning Magika...

Couldn't disagree more. Sorc pet parses are 4k higher than non-pet parses, and 4k higher than every other magicka parse, period. The only balance to this is the simple fact that pets can't be used on a few bosses due to mechanics. On the pvp side, there is no drawback, particularly of such a drastic nature.

Please define "active defense." A good magicka sorc knows how to properly time a single shield to afford ample time for burst combos. That has been the case forever; those are fundamental Sorc mechanics. In fact, the same is true for any class. It takes only a single well-timed defensive ability to bait your opponent into an offensive, then it's easy to burst when they're off their guard. An active defense would be you standing there doing nothing but ward. Yeah, I guarantee you won't accomplish anything that way. It hardly constitutes an argument against this concept, however.

P.S. Stamina had their day for a fleeting heartbeat. It took them 2 years just to make stam sorcs a real thing. It lasted for a few months, and then went the way of every stam class.

Ashamray · April 2017

Kilandros wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Kilandros wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Idinuse wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Completely disagree with everything from OP.
I kill mag Sorcs easier than anything. I think they are the easiest to counter, easiest to burst down and least threatening overall. And Sorcs were waiting for buffsa very long time, we were left in the cold for a very long time until we received (mostly indirect) buffs that everyone can profit from.

Sorcs rarely received anything personal besides nerfs. The only true buffs we have received were pet buffs, that most people don't even want to use. Sorcerer has remained almost untouched since so many updates and most people I encounter know just exactly how to deal with streak and shields in general. You really should calm down.

I so agree with you, in fact for me, I kill Templars easier than anything. Their pathetic stuns they had from Blazing Shield, their ridiculously low hits with RD, even the execute was so easy to counter, so easy to move out of their Jabs. As soon as their arms go up in the air to brainlessly BoL spam, I interrupted and simply face melted them. And yet they received nerf after nerf after nerf, well even more than your Sorc class, I mean those Sorcs you are killing so easily. No, no. Templars have always been the weakest class in the game for me. And Templars have been waiting for buffs, usable passives, and less channeled or cast time skills. But no. They received the hardest nerfs in the game. Again.

And yet they are the easiest kills for me. All my friends and most people know exactly how to neutralize almost anything a Templar can do by now. People really should have calmed down in regards to Templars, now look at the poor souls.

(Btw, as you play a Sorc, I do main a Templar, 5.000+ hours, ridiculous don't you agree?)

But Magicka Templar was considered the strongest by everyone just until recently. They are the most cancerous and immortal class and are the biggest pain to deal with. When fighting a group of enemies, I do not fear the DDs or so. No; i fear nothing but the Templar. In my eyes, it's a completely overpowered class.

Templar hasn't been the PvE or PvP meta for months. Sorcerer has been outperforming every class in both PvP and PvE for nearly 6 months now. It has the highest PvE DPS, the highest vMA scores, and is the most popular class in Cyro.

Strange, all I ever see are DKs and Templars and the Sorcs that I see, I just roll over them and enjoy the free AP.
But really nothing outshines everything as much as Templars do and I know I'm by far not alone with this opinion. Perhaps Forum Warriors are just a different kind of people. But in game people are perfectly aware of it.

I'm aware of the pve dps thing and vMA though. But well, this has nothing to do with pvp really, where Sorc damage, in my opinion, is lackluster unless you are a decent petsorc

I don't know you as a player, but if you're complaining about Sorc damage in PvP I suspect it's a L2P issue (I hate using that). Sorcerer's are far and away the class with the best burst on live.

Can confirm Dracan's damage is OK even when she doesn't abuse magicka stacking like no tomorrow. Why she downplays sorc's damage and exaggerates templar's is above my understanding.

Merlin13KAGL · April 2017

How about we stop attempting to balance anything based on top 100 leaderboard scores or the top 1% of the gaming population?

Dialing it back, the top 1% is probably still gonna be the top 1% (meaning you're probably not going to beat them - they're there for reasons beyond "X class is OP") and the typical player is still going to be the typical player.

I'm guessing you're not getting your ass handed to you by every single (Fill in Class Here). If you are, it's probably not a class issue.

I've killed all classes. I've been wrecked by all classes.

Tunnelvision causes these problems. It doesn't fix them. (It goes in a cycle. It always has.)

Dracane · April 2017

Kilandros wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Kilandros wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Idinuse wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Completely disagree with everything from OP.
I kill mag Sorcs easier than anything. I think they are the easiest to counter, easiest to burst down and least threatening overall. And Sorcs were waiting for buffsa very long time, we were left in the cold for a very long time until we received (mostly indirect) buffs that everyone can profit from.

Sorcs rarely received anything personal besides nerfs. The only true buffs we have received were pet buffs, that most people don't even want to use. Sorcerer has remained almost untouched since so many updates and most people I encounter know just exactly how to deal with streak and shields in general. You really should calm down.

I so agree with you, in fact for me, I kill Templars easier than anything. Their pathetic stuns they had from Blazing Shield, their ridiculously low hits with RD, even the execute was so easy to counter, so easy to move out of their Jabs. As soon as their arms go up in the air to brainlessly BoL spam, I interrupted and simply face melted them. And yet they received nerf after nerf after nerf, well even more than your Sorc class, I mean those Sorcs you are killing so easily. No, no. Templars have always been the weakest class in the game for me. And Templars have been waiting for buffs, usable passives, and less channeled or cast time skills. But no. They received the hardest nerfs in the game. Again.

And yet they are the easiest kills for me. All my friends and most people know exactly how to neutralize almost anything a Templar can do by now. People really should have calmed down in regards to Templars, now look at the poor souls.

(Btw, as you play a Sorc, I do main a Templar, 5.000+ hours, ridiculous don't you agree?)

But Magicka Templar was considered the strongest by everyone just until recently. They are the most cancerous and immortal class and are the biggest pain to deal with. When fighting a group of enemies, I do not fear the DDs or so. No; i fear nothing but the Templar. In my eyes, it's a completely overpowered class.

Templar hasn't been the PvE or PvP meta for months. Sorcerer has been outperforming every class in both PvP and PvE for nearly 6 months now. It has the highest PvE DPS, the highest vMA scores, and is the most popular class in Cyro.

Strange, all I ever see are DKs and Templars and the Sorcs that I see, I just roll over them and enjoy the free AP.
But really nothing outshines everything as much as Templars do and I know I'm by far not alone with this opinion. Perhaps Forum Warriors are just a different kind of people. But in game people are perfectly aware of it.

I'm aware of the pve dps thing and vMA though. But well, this has nothing to do with pvp really, where Sorc damage, in my opinion, is lackluster unless you are a decent petsorc

I don't know you as a player, but if you're complaining about Sorc damage in PvP I suspect it's a L2P issue (I hate using that). Sorcerer's are far and away the class with the best burst on live.

Don't worry, I'm just a low noob Sorc. I know nothing