Sorcs and Favoritism

Jsmalls

@Mumyo

There really aren't many sources of defile in the game... None of which are available to Mag Sorcs btw (rip the Mag Sorc that's using reverb bash).

So while I'll agree that the defile change will be interesting... It certainly isn't something that Mag Sorcs will be putting points into...

That being said 20 points out of your 210 points into shattering blows isn't going to cripple your build... I put points into spell erosion that does me absolutely no good against most light armor builds especially ones with shields up, and minimal benefit against medium, I put points in for heavy armor builds. So I can toss 40 points into spell erosion for certain targets, but God forbid you have to put 20 to 30 into shattering blows? Seems kind of one sided to me...

@IzakiBrotherSs @Dracane

A 22k frag in PvP is unrealistic. Yeah I'm sure it's possible with 60k magicka and 3500 spell damage and probably the shadow with all divines, but it's as Dracane said, in situations where the opponent has no idea what their doing defensively. And definitely not on a setup that's balanced for PvP, just a balls to the wall build.

Dixa

the sustain changes affect pve. sorcs were only - until recently - strong in pvp.

two different game modes here. lets not start combining them as we whinge.

unless it's zerg on zerg fights in cyrodil are rarely long enough for sustain to even be an issue. 2h stam users still drop most people in a couple of smacks without outside help on the pts.

pve'ers will have to start HA weaving.

KingJ

Jsmalls wrote: »

@Mumyo

There really aren't many sources of defile in the game... None of which are available to Mag Sorcs btw (rip the Mag Sorc that's using reverb bash).

So while I'll agree that the defile change will be interesting... It certainly isn't something that Mag Sorcs will be putting points into...

That being said 20 points out of your 210 points into shattering blows isn't going to cripple your build... I put points into spell erosion that does me absolutely no good against most light armor builds especially ones with shields up, and minimal benefit against medium, I put points in for heavy armor builds. So I can toss 40 points into spell erosion for certain targets, but God forbid you have to put 20 to 30 into shattering blows? Seems kind of one sided to me...

@IzakiBrotherSs @Dracane

A 22k frag in PvP is unrealistic. Yeah I'm sure it's possible with 60k magicka and 3500 spell damage and probably the shadow with all divines, but it's as Dracane said, in situations where the opponent has no idea what their doing defensively. And definitely not on a setup that's balanced for PvP, just a balls to the wall build.

@Jsmalls There a issue with what you said here which I bolded vast majority of other class have to run heavy only class that can really run light is a magic sorc.You're better off stacking points into spell erosion as a magic sorc compared to lets say a stamnb or stamdk stacking points in shattering blows.You get a bigger bang for your buck putting points into spell erosion as a magsorc since you're more likely to face a heavy armor build than a light or medium armor build,compared to another magic build that player is weakening themselves putting points into shattering blows to just kill you.You're not putting points into spell erosion to kill certain targets your putting points to kill the vast majority of targets.People putting points into shattering blows are doing it to just kill sorcs.It's a huge difference between the two example.

Imo This is the issue people are having with sorcs people build to kill the other 7 specs and sorcs shields negate those builds .People build for high crit and high pen to kill heavy armor builds.So now people can't kill sorcs without making there builds weaker against every other class.So people get upset and say sorc shields are OP.You have to look at how the game is and currently it's making people look at sorcs and they are strong and to say otherwise is false especially with the changes to the other classes.

SanTii.92

KingJ wrote: »

Jsmalls wrote: »

@Mumyo

There really aren't many sources of defile in the game... None of which are available to Mag Sorcs btw (rip the Mag Sorc that's using reverb bash).

So while I'll agree that the defile change will be interesting... It certainly isn't something that Mag Sorcs will be putting points into...

That being said 20 points out of your 210 points into shattering blows isn't going to cripple your build... I put points into spell erosion that does me absolutely no good against most light armor builds especially ones with shields up, and minimal benefit against medium, I put points in for heavy armor builds. So I can toss 40 points into spell erosion for certain targets, but God forbid you have to put 20 to 30 into shattering blows? Seems kind of one sided to me...

@IzakiBrotherSs @Dracane

A 22k frag in PvP is unrealistic. Yeah I'm sure it's possible with 60k magicka and 3500 spell damage and probably the shadow with all divines, but it's as Dracane said, in situations where the opponent has no idea what their doing defensively. And definitely not on a setup that's balanced for PvP, just a balls to the wall build.

@Jsmalls There a issue with what you said here which I bolded vast majority of other class have to run heavy only class that can really run light is a magic sorc.You're better off stacking points into spell erosion as a magic sorc compared to lets say a stamnb or stamdk stacking points in shattering blows.You get a bigger bang for your buck putting points into spell erosion as a magsorc since you're more likely to face a heavy armor build than a light or medium armor build,compared to another magic build that player is weakening themselves putting points into shattering blows to just kill you.You're not putting points into spell erosion to kill certain targets your putting points to kill the vast majority of targets.People putting points into shattering blows are doing it to just kill sorcs.It's a huge difference between the two example.

Imo This is the issue people are having with sorcs people build to kill the other 7 specs and sorcs shields negate those builds .People build for high crit and high pen to kill heavy armor builds.So now people can't kill sorcs without making there builds weaker against every other class.So people get upset and say sorc shields are OP.You have to look at how the game is and currently it's making people look at sorcs and they are strong and to say otherwise is false especially with the changes to the other classes.

Poor guy mag nb. Everyone always forget about them. When they are actually a sleeper op dueler.

KingJ

SanTii.92 wrote: »

KingJ wrote: »

Jsmalls wrote: »

@Mumyo

There really aren't many sources of defile in the game... None of which are available to Mag Sorcs btw (rip the Mag Sorc that's using reverb bash).

So while I'll agree that the defile change will be interesting... It certainly isn't something that Mag Sorcs will be putting points into...

That being said 20 points out of your 210 points into shattering blows isn't going to cripple your build... I put points into spell erosion that does me absolutely no good against most light armor builds especially ones with shields up, and minimal benefit against medium, I put points in for heavy armor builds. So I can toss 40 points into spell erosion for certain targets, but God forbid you have to put 20 to 30 into shattering blows? Seems kind of one sided to me...

@IzakiBrotherSs @Dracane

A 22k frag in PvP is unrealistic. Yeah I'm sure it's possible with 60k magicka and 3500 spell damage and probably the shadow with all divines, but it's as Dracane said, in situations where the opponent has no idea what their doing defensively. And definitely not on a setup that's balanced for PvP, just a balls to the wall build.

@Jsmalls There a issue with what you said here which I bolded vast majority of other class have to run heavy only class that can really run light is a magic sorc.You're better off stacking points into spell erosion as a magic sorc compared to lets say a stamnb or stamdk stacking points in shattering blows.You get a bigger bang for your buck putting points into spell erosion as a magsorc since you're more likely to face a heavy armor build than a light or medium armor build,compared to another magic build that player is weakening themselves putting points into shattering blows to just kill you.You're not putting points into spell erosion to kill certain targets your putting points to kill the vast majority of targets.People putting points into shattering blows are doing it to just kill sorcs.It's a huge difference between the two example.

Imo This is the issue people are having with sorcs people build to kill the other 7 specs and sorcs shields negate those builds .People build for high crit and high pen to kill heavy armor builds.So now people can't kill sorcs without making there builds weaker against every other class.So people get upset and say sorc shields are OP.You have to look at how the game is and currently it's making people look at sorcs and they are strong and to say otherwise is false especially with the changes to the other classes.

Poor guy mag nb. Everyone always forget about them. When they are actually a sleeper op dueler.

Magnb aren't bad in duels it's the one area they are still pretty good. Most magblades have moved to heavy armor in open world to survive.The issue is Sorc are just better than magblade in duels its a bit closer but if I had to put my money on a equally skilled magblade vs a equally skilled magsorc my money going to a magsorc.

thankyourat

KingJ wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

If you need any proof that ZoS favors sorc just compare mag sorc to magblade. This is obvious favoritism magsorc already out classes magblade at the moment but magblades are getting nerfed in the next patch, and magsorc is not. If it's not favoritism what else could it be?

Hey at least you can still bomb people next patch. Hey sorc are getting nerfed the issue is that those nerfs affect the other classes more than sorc.

Bombing maybe more viable if everyone switches to medium and light armor in the next update.

SanTii.92 wrote: »

KingJ wrote: »

Jsmalls wrote: »

@Mumyo

There really aren't many sources of defile in the game... None of which are available to Mag Sorcs btw (rip the Mag Sorc that's using reverb bash).

So while I'll agree that the defile change will be interesting... It certainly isn't something that Mag Sorcs will be putting points into...

That being said 20 points out of your 210 points into shattering blows isn't going to cripple your build... I put points into spell erosion that does me absolutely no good against most light armor builds especially ones with shields up, and minimal benefit against medium, I put points in for heavy armor builds. So I can toss 40 points into spell erosion for certain targets, but God forbid you have to put 20 to 30 into shattering blows? Seems kind of one sided to me...

@IzakiBrotherSs @Dracane

A 22k frag in PvP is unrealistic. Yeah I'm sure it's possible with 60k magicka and 3500 spell damage and probably the shadow with all divines, but it's as Dracane said, in situations where the opponent has no idea what their doing defensively. And definitely not on a setup that's balanced for PvP, just a balls to the wall build.

@Jsmalls There a issue with what you said here which I bolded vast majority of other class have to run heavy only class that can really run light is a magic sorc.You're better off stacking points into spell erosion as a magic sorc compared to lets say a stamnb or stamdk stacking points in shattering blows.You get a bigger bang for your buck putting points into spell erosion as a magsorc since you're more likely to face a heavy armor build than a light or medium armor build,compared to another magic build that player is weakening themselves putting points into shattering blows to just kill you.You're not putting points into spell erosion to kill certain targets your putting points to kill the vast majority of targets.People putting points into shattering blows are doing it to just kill sorcs.It's a huge difference between the two example.

Imo This is the issue people are having with sorcs people build to kill the other 7 specs and sorcs shields negate those builds .People build for high crit and high pen to kill heavy armor builds.So now people can't kill sorcs without making there builds weaker against every other class.So people get upset and say sorc shields are OP.You have to look at how the game is and currently it's making people look at sorcs and they are strong and to say otherwise is false especially with the changes to the other classes.

Poor guy mag nb. Everyone always forget about them. When they are actually a sleeper op dueler.

Magblade is good in duels but so is every other class. It will actually be weaker next patch in duels because siphoning attacks will longer keep its stamina pool full. meaning you want be able to block as many CCs. It's rare to get an actual 1v1 in cyrodiil as well

Joy_Division

You know the sorc lobby is desperate to justify why they weren't the only class smashed over the head with the huge Nerfhammer when their retort is that is will be more difficult to shield stack.

Yeah, because the nerf to sustain will make it easier for me to BoL spam.

Your day is coming when your class too will be sacrificed at the Altar of the Champion Point system. Enjoy it while it lasts.
But in the meantime please don't insult us.

Subversus

Dracane wrote: »

Apherius wrote: »

Vosital wrote: »

Every single patch, we expect some kind of nerfs or adjustments to the overtuned class that is the Sorcerer in this game. Yet every single time, they get the best of the patch notes. The gap between Mag Sorcs and everybody else just gets more and more ridiculous every time.

Take last patch for example. Mag Sorcs were god tier in PvP and PvE. What happened? A raw 8% damage increase and a better Haunting Curse.

This patch? Almost every aspect of the game is getting toned down and nerfed, except Sorcs and shields.

There is a major problem in this game when a full light armor Sorc in Lich can spam shield indefinitely and be harder to kill than any kind of heavy armor tank. There is no reason to play anything else in PvP. You do the most damage, are the most mobile, and are the hardest to kill. In PvE you outparse everyone by a huge margin.

We get it Zenimax, this class is your favorite and they need to be vastly superior to every other class in the game in every aspect of the game. But this is just getting ridiculous. It is so unprofessional for this kind of ridiculous favoritism to exist by a major company.

You forgot the patch where we got the nerf of bolt escape , the impossibility to use bolt escape more than 6 times without be oom .
the patch where we got the nerf of Shields ( shield divided by 2 in PVP )
the patch where we got an other nerf of shiels ( duration of shields divided by 3 in PVE / PVP )
the patch where we got the nerf of the ultimate cap ( yeah = dead of Overload build in PVE )
the patch where the got the nerf of the negat ( the sorcerer was the worst class in raid because he was only accepte in raid for the negat )

Now , with this patch ,there will be a sustain nerf ... and a sorcerer without mana = a sorcerer without shield = a dead sorcerer .

But of course there is a lot of favoritisme , this is why they nerfed the Hurricane of stam sorcerer .

Exactly. Sorcerer suffers from these changes just the same.
Some things on other classes were nerfed to nerf their passive sustain. But you all forget, that all classes but Sorcs have indirect ressource restorations, Sorcerers don't. They need a 1 second channel in order to restore ressources, while other classes get ressources back by doing regular stuff or simply using their abilities> 0 effort required. Dks get ressources by using ults, activating earthern heart abilities. Nightblades get them from simply doing light attacks and templars have rune focus.

That's the thing, nightblades don't get resources from syphoning anymore (well they do but you literally barely break even). DK sustain also got completely ***. Everything got nerfed yet dark exchange got completely untouched. Deny it or not, it's a broken ability the way it works on live. I'd give syphoning attacks for it in an instant.

The way you're picturing sorc in your post is that they're some sort of underdog class, yet they are THE most played pve class atm (because they're the best) and are insanely strong in pvp.

No offense but you can't say sorcs are not broken just because you beat them 1v1 WITH a pet build. You can't balance the game after 1v1s... Sorcs are simply overpowered in all aspects of the game. 1v1 should never be a measure for class balance, not the way it works right now.

BohnT

Subversus wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Apherius wrote: »

Vosital wrote: »

Every single patch, we expect some kind of nerfs or adjustments to the overtuned class that is the Sorcerer in this game. Yet every single time, they get the best of the patch notes. The gap between Mag Sorcs and everybody else just gets more and more ridiculous every time.

Take last patch for example. Mag Sorcs were god tier in PvP and PvE. What happened? A raw 8% damage increase and a better Haunting Curse.

This patch? Almost every aspect of the game is getting toned down and nerfed, except Sorcs and shields.

There is a major problem in this game when a full light armor Sorc in Lich can spam shield indefinitely and be harder to kill than any kind of heavy armor tank. There is no reason to play anything else in PvP. You do the most damage, are the most mobile, and are the hardest to kill. In PvE you outparse everyone by a huge margin.

We get it Zenimax, this class is your favorite and they need to be vastly superior to every other class in the game in every aspect of the game. But this is just getting ridiculous. It is so unprofessional for this kind of ridiculous favoritism to exist by a major company.

You forgot the patch where we got the nerf of bolt escape , the impossibility to use bolt escape more than 6 times without be oom .
the patch where we got the nerf of Shields ( shield divided by 2 in PVP )
the patch where we got an other nerf of shiels ( duration of shields divided by 3 in PVE / PVP )
the patch where we got the nerf of the ultimate cap ( yeah = dead of Overload build in PVE )
the patch where the got the nerf of the negat ( the sorcerer was the worst class in raid because he was only accepte in raid for the negat )

Now , with this patch ,there will be a sustain nerf ... and a sorcerer without mana = a sorcerer without shield = a dead sorcerer .

But of course there is a lot of favoritisme , this is why they nerfed the Hurricane of stam sorcerer .

Exactly. Sorcerer suffers from these changes just the same.
Some things on other classes were nerfed to nerf their passive sustain. But you all forget, that all classes but Sorcs have indirect ressource restorations, Sorcerers don't. They need a 1 second channel in order to restore ressources, while other classes get ressources back by doing regular stuff or simply using their abilities> 0 effort required. Dks get ressources by using ults, activating earthern heart abilities. Nightblades get them from simply doing light attacks and templars have rune focus.

That's the thing, nightblades don't get resources from syphoning anymore (well they do but you literally almost break even). The way you're picturing sorc in your post is that they're some sort of underdog class, yet they are THE most played pve class atm (because they're the best) and are insanely strong in pvp.

No offense but you can't say sorcs are not broken just because you beat them 1v1 WITH a pet build. You can't balance the game after 1v1s...

The problem is there seems to be nothing this game is balanced around.
If you say it is balanced around zergs stamina is completely underwhelming and useless.
If you say it's balanced around small groups stamnb, stamplar and stamdk are not very good
If you say 1vX stamnb is good but templars and magdk are complete crap
If you say 1v1 sorc needs to be nerfed and mag nb needs a buff as well as stamplar
If you say ganking well anything that isn't a nb is pretty bad for this

You have to balance every class for all these aspects and this is almost impossible.
But all these things come often down to 1v1 and then you can say that we should balance duels to make no class a hardcounter to another

Subversus

BohnT wrote: »

Subversus wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Apherius wrote: »

Vosital wrote: »

Every single patch, we expect some kind of nerfs or adjustments to the overtuned class that is the Sorcerer in this game. Yet every single time, they get the best of the patch notes. The gap between Mag Sorcs and everybody else just gets more and more ridiculous every time.

Take last patch for example. Mag Sorcs were god tier in PvP and PvE. What happened? A raw 8% damage increase and a better Haunting Curse.

This patch? Almost every aspect of the game is getting toned down and nerfed, except Sorcs and shields.

There is a major problem in this game when a full light armor Sorc in Lich can spam shield indefinitely and be harder to kill than any kind of heavy armor tank. There is no reason to play anything else in PvP. You do the most damage, are the most mobile, and are the hardest to kill. In PvE you outparse everyone by a huge margin.

We get it Zenimax, this class is your favorite and they need to be vastly superior to every other class in the game in every aspect of the game. But this is just getting ridiculous. It is so unprofessional for this kind of ridiculous favoritism to exist by a major company.

You forgot the patch where we got the nerf of bolt escape , the impossibility to use bolt escape more than 6 times without be oom .
the patch where we got the nerf of Shields ( shield divided by 2 in PVP )
the patch where we got an other nerf of shiels ( duration of shields divided by 3 in PVE / PVP )
the patch where we got the nerf of the ultimate cap ( yeah = dead of Overload build in PVE )
the patch where the got the nerf of the negat ( the sorcerer was the worst class in raid because he was only accepte in raid for the negat )

Now , with this patch ,there will be a sustain nerf ... and a sorcerer without mana = a sorcerer without shield = a dead sorcerer .

But of course there is a lot of favoritisme , this is why they nerfed the Hurricane of stam sorcerer .

Exactly. Sorcerer suffers from these changes just the same.
Some things on other classes were nerfed to nerf their passive sustain. But you all forget, that all classes but Sorcs have indirect ressource restorations, Sorcerers don't. They need a 1 second channel in order to restore ressources, while other classes get ressources back by doing regular stuff or simply using their abilities> 0 effort required. Dks get ressources by using ults, activating earthern heart abilities. Nightblades get them from simply doing light attacks and templars have rune focus.

That's the thing, nightblades don't get resources from syphoning anymore (well they do but you literally almost break even). The way you're picturing sorc in your post is that they're some sort of underdog class, yet they are THE most played pve class atm (because they're the best) and are insanely strong in pvp.

No offense but you can't say sorcs are not broken just because you beat them 1v1 WITH a pet build. You can't balance the game after 1v1s...

The problem is there seems to be nothing this game is balanced around.
If you say it is balanced around zergs stamina is completely underwhelming and useless.
If you say it's balanced around small groups stamnb, stamplar and stamdk are not very good
If you say 1vX stamnb is good but templars and magdk are complete crap
If you say 1v1 sorc needs to be nerfed and mag nb needs a buff as well as stamplar
If you say ganking well anything that isn't a nb is pretty bad for this

You have to balance every class for all these aspects and this is almost impossible.
But all these things come often down to 1v1 and then you can say that we should balance duels to make no class a hardcounter to another

Agree. I should have phrased it better. You can't balance things after homestead 1v1 meta. It might've worked in earlier patches, but this patch it's either heavy armor or pet sorc. How do you balance something around that? You can't tbh.

peeslingerb14_ESO

Joy_Division wrote: »

You know the sorc lobby is desperate to justify why they weren't the only class smashed over the head with the huge Nerfhammer when their retort is that is will be more difficult to shield stack.

Yeah, because the nerf to sustain will make it easier for me to BoL spam.

Your day is coming when your class too will be sacrificed at the Altar of the Champion Point system. Enjoy it while it lasts.
But in the meantime please don't insult us.

Actually, it is easy to deflect your argument because it only holds up in CP Cyrodiil. Its a current meta problem that won't exist after June 6th and doesn't exist in no CP Cyrodiil because shield spamming mSorcs get completely wrecked there.
In fact, Heavy armor max dps self heal spammers are the hardest to deal with...which coincidentally are the ones who drove these nerfs in the first place.

RinaldoGandolphi

Jsmalls wrote: »

@Mumyo

There really aren't many sources of defile in the game... None of which are available to Mag Sorcs btw (rip the Mag Sorc that's using reverb bash).

So while I'll agree that the defile change will be interesting... It certainly isn't something that Mag Sorcs will be putting points into...

That being said 20 points out of your 210 points into shattering blows isn't going to cripple your build... I put points into spell erosion that does me absolutely no good against most light armor builds especially ones with shields up, and minimal benefit against medium, I put points in for heavy armor builds. So I can toss 40 points into spell erosion for certain targets, but God forbid you have to put 20 to 30 into shattering blows? Seems kind of one sided to me...

@IzakiBrotherSs @Dracane

A 22k frag in PvP is unrealistic. Yeah I'm sure it's possible with 60k magicka and 3500 spell damage and probably the shadow with all divines, but it's as Dracane said, in situations where the opponent has no idea what their doing defensively. And definitely not on a setup that's balanced for PvP, just a balls to the wall build.

You mean like QAM and his yolobuilds right?

Izaki

Joy_Division wrote: »

You know the sorc lobby is desperate to justify why they weren't the only class smashed over the head with the huge Nerfhammer when their retort is that is will be more difficult to shield stack.

Yeah, because the nerf to sustain will make it easier for me to BoL spam.

Your day is coming when your class too will be sacrificed at the Altar of the Champion Point system. Enjoy it while it lasts.
But in the meantime please don't insult us.

Sorcs do rely on cost reduction and regen much more than any other class though. Specifically mag sorcs, who can't use Dark Exhange (yeah I've tried Amberplasm, and no its no where near the Lich). You have to admit that. Cost reduction and regen is all they have in fact. PvE is the best example actually. Sorcs have the worst sustain of all classes. Dark Exchange costs more than just resources, it costs DPS. And for someone doing 50k DPS, 1 second wasted is a huge damage loss.

HugeMuffin

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

You know the sorc lobby is desperate to justify why they weren't the only class smashed over the head with the huge Nerfhammer when their retort is that is will be more difficult to shield stack.

Yeah, because the nerf to sustain will make it easier for me to BoL spam.

Your day is coming when your class too will be sacrificed at the Altar of the Champion Point system. Enjoy it while it lasts.
But in the meantime please don't insult us.

Sorcs do rely on cost reduction and regen much more than any other class though. Specifically mag sorcs, who can't use Dark Exhange (yeah I've tried Amberplasm, and no its no where near the Lich). You have to admit that. Cost reduction and regen is all they have in fact. PvE is the best example actually. Sorcs have the worst sustain of all classes. Dark Exchange costs more than just resources, it costs DPS. And for someone doing 50k DPS, 1 second wasted is a huge damage loss.

When crystal frags drops its proc option, I'll believe that Sorcs saw a nerf in the name of sustain. Normally it costs 3.6k, but casting a magicka ability gives it a 1 in 3 chance of a 20% damage boost and shaves 1.8k magicka off of the cost. Assuming you cast it every 4 seconds when it procs, that's equal to about 900free regen if used like that. If the devs were concerned about making sustain harder, that's a nice block of regen left on the table.

Jawasa

Haha i Love the sorc players that try to downplay shield stack after the nerfs. My no CP sorc shield stack for days with no problem atm and still have 2,4 k spell dmg so in bg's next patch all i need to do is change one of My spell dmg glyphs to cost reduction.

It can allready stand a fair chance against every other build in azura now. So with every1 els getting hit with nerfs it's gonna be even easier. So this is Def what i will bring in morrowind if pts dont change anything els.

ashenb14_ESO

i think they should just nerf sorcs till they are not worth playing, so i can find another game to play, since their way of fixing balance issues is nerfing everybody and turning pve into an experiance that reminds me of all the korean grinders i have played over the years....

soon only class worth making will be warden...everybody else will be nerfed so hard they can at best act as support for the new uber class...

meh...dosnt matter...for all of us who play little to none after they make the classes we play...un-fun to play....will free up server capacity for suckers who buy morrowind thinking they can play anything but a warden and have quality pve experience...

after all... warden is the new hotness, and if you really want to enjoy the game you need to give them money for the new hotness.... nerf the other classes to ensure higher sales....sounds logical... they need money.....how else can they fund creating more cash shop items?(because you know they wont invest it in hiring a few more debuggers..or some in game gm's)

Stamden

Jawasa wrote: »

Haha i Love the sorc players that try to downplay shield stack after the nerfs. My no CP sorc shield stack for days with no problem atm and still have 2,4 k spell dmg so in bg's next patch all i need to do is change one of My spell dmg glyphs to cost reduction.

It can allready stand a fair chance against every other build in azura now. So with every1 els getting hit with nerfs it's gonna be even easier. So this is Def what i will bring in morrowind if pts dont change anything els.

Yeah that's what people aren't getting. Sorcs are already super strong and everyone else is getting gutted. Any serious PvPer is going to be running Sorc in Morrowind.

Lord_Hev

Jsmalls wrote: »

A 22k frag in PvP is unrealistic. Yeah I'm sure it's possible with 60k magicka and 3500 spell damage and probably the shadow with all divines, but it's as Dracane said, in situations where the opponent has no idea what their doing defensively. And definitely not on a setup that's balanced for PvP, just a balls to the wall build.

Tell that to the people I 1vX, and the competent players I out-last and kill in duels with only 800 regen.

Jawasa

@Neighbor i might go magica warden. jokes aside i do think that templar and warden also will have a place in groups.

ashenb14_ESO

Jawasa wrote: »

@Neighbor i might go magica warden. jokes aside i do think that templar and warden also will have a place in groups.

doubtful, seems their plan from my reading is to make temp a 2nd or 3rd class...class and warden, at least till sales fall of...the uber class everybody needs and wants in their party...

hopefully they just nerf everybody but warden into the ground and the warden can swoop in and carry teams of otherwise useless mob fodder.... it will make the game more fun having to spend 20min killin mobs u could normally wipe out in under 5 min.... longer slower combat for the same drops=feels far more rewarding... "oh sweet i spent 3hrs killing *** in this dungeon and i got one drop thats useful and a bunch of trash.... and the useful drops an uber leet green!!!"

starting to remind me of korean grinders honestly....

Joy_Division

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

You know the sorc lobby is desperate to justify why they weren't the only class smashed over the head with the huge Nerfhammer when their retort is that is will be more difficult to shield stack.

Yeah, because the nerf to sustain will make it easier for me to BoL spam.

Your day is coming when your class too will be sacrificed at the Altar of the Champion Point system. Enjoy it while it lasts.
But in the meantime please don't insult us.

Sorcs do rely on cost reduction and regen much more than any other class though. Specifically mag sorcs, who can't use Dark Exhange (yeah I've tried Amberplasm, and no its no where near the Lich). You have to admit that. Cost reduction and regen is all they have in fact. PvE is the best example actually. Sorcs have the worst sustain of all classes. Dark Exchange costs more than just resources, it costs DPS. And for someone doing 50k DPS, 1 second wasted is a huge damage loss.

No, I don't have to admit it. That is your opinion. No matter how much you want to believe it, that is all it is

Jsmalls

@KingJ

I was talking more about next update rather than this patch, with the general idea that heavy armor will be extremely hard to run successfully in PvP. And in my opinion the fact that every other class (6/8) is wearing heavy armor is more of a problem than 1 class using their damage shields to survive!

But honestly I think Zos stop went about this patch in the wrong way. Like BIG time. They changed CP to the point where you could still reach ignorantly strong hits due to double dipping and front loaded. Then they're going to try and push medium and light armor due to Heavy armor being virtually unsustainable. Well the problem with light and medium armor is they get annihilated in mere milliseconds due to the insane damage capabilities currently. I entirely agree that damage shields are borderline the ONLY choice for light armor, and Sorcerers and Magblades have been showing this for quite some time. Anyone who plans on using medium armor I wish you the best of luck, but I do feel bad, because if you aren't rolling non stop there isn't much you can do but die.

Heavy armor was a problem, it could just do way too much. But our damage creep making light (without a shield) and medium armor unplayable was the real hidden demon.

And I know there is all this hate about damage shields but 25k health in light armor can be ripped through in the blink of an eye... You take away the strengths of damage shields and we become useless...

KingJ

Jsmalls wrote: »

@KingJ

I was talking more about next update rather than this patch, with the general idea that heavy armor will be extremely hard to run successfully in PvP. And in my opinion the fact that every other class (6/8) is wearing heavy armor is more of a problem than 1 class using their damage shields to survive!

But honestly I think Zos stop went about this patch in the wrong way. Like BIG time. They changed CP to the point where you could still reach ignorantly strong hits due to double dipping and front loaded. Then they're going to try and push medium and light armor due to Heavy armor being virtually unsustainable. Well the problem with light and medium armor is they get annihilated in mere milliseconds due to the insane damage capabilities currently. I entirely agree that damage shields are borderline the ONLY choice for light armor, and Sorcerers and Magblades have been showing this for quite some time. Anyone who plans on using medium armor I wish you the best of luck, but I do feel bad, because if you aren't rolling non stop there isn't much you can do but die.

Heavy armor was a problem, it could just do way too much. But our damage creep making light (without a shield) and medium armor unplayable was the real hidden demon.

And I know there is all this hate about damage shields but 25k health in light armor can be ripped through in the blink of an eye... You take away the strengths of damage shields and we become useless...

In that context I agree with you.Especially with how medium pretty much suck donkey balls I said it before stam builds are going to be forced to still run heavy armor because they take to much damage otherwise.New Stam meta 5 bone pirate 5 Black rose selene or velidreth.Only way you will be able to survive and deal damage next patch.

Derra

Kilandros wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Kilandros wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Kilandros wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Idinuse wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Completely disagree with everything from OP.
I kill mag Sorcs easier than anything. I think they are the easiest to counter, easiest to burst down and least threatening overall. And Sorcs were waiting for buffsa very long time, we were left in the cold for a very long time until we received (mostly indirect) buffs that everyone can profit from.

Sorcs rarely received anything personal besides nerfs. The only true buffs we have received were pet buffs, that most people don't even want to use. Sorcerer has remained almost untouched since so many updates and most people I encounter know just exactly how to deal with streak and shields in general. You really should calm down.

I so agree with you, in fact for me, I kill Templars easier than anything. Their pathetic stuns they had from Blazing Shield, their ridiculously low hits with RD, even the execute was so easy to counter, so easy to move out of their Jabs. As soon as their arms go up in the air to brainlessly BoL spam, I interrupted and simply face melted them. And yet they received nerf after nerf after nerf, well even more than your Sorc class, I mean those Sorcs you are killing so easily. No, no. Templars have always been the weakest class in the game for me. And Templars have been waiting for buffs, usable passives, and less channeled or cast time skills. But no. They received the hardest nerfs in the game. Again.

And yet they are the easiest kills for me. All my friends and most people know exactly how to neutralize almost anything a Templar can do by now. People really should have calmed down in regards to Templars, now look at the poor souls.

(Btw, as you play a Sorc, I do main a Templar, 5.000+ hours, ridiculous don't you agree?)

But Magicka Templar was considered the strongest by everyone just until recently. They are the most cancerous and immortal class and are the biggest pain to deal with. When fighting a group of enemies, I do not fear the DDs or so. No; i fear nothing but the Templar. In my eyes, it's a completely overpowered class.

Templar hasn't been the PvE or PvP meta for months. Sorcerer has been outperforming every class in both PvP and PvE for nearly 6 months now. It has the highest PvE DPS, the highest vMA scores, and is the most popular class in Cyro.

Strange, all I ever see are DKs and Templars and the Sorcs that I see, I just roll over them and enjoy the free AP.
But really nothing outshines everything as much as Templars do and I know I'm by far not alone with this opinion. Perhaps Forum Warriors are just a different kind of people. But in game people are perfectly aware of it.

I'm aware of the pve dps thing and vMA though. But well, this has nothing to do with pvp really, where Sorc damage, in my opinion, is lackluster unless you are a decent petsorc

I don't know you as a player, but if you're complaining about Sorc damage in PvP I suspect it's a L2P issue (I hate using that). Sorcerer's are far and away the class with the best burst on live.

Don't worry, I'm just a low noob Sorc. I know nothing

I'm not saying that. But you appear to be so blinded by class bias that it's almost absurd. Go watch some of Qaevir's Sorcerer videos where he hits people with 20k Frags and tell me that Sorcerer damage is inadequate in PvP. Sorcerers can build for full offense and still have terrific defense thanks to Shields scaling off of max Magicka. Literally no other class can do that. Is Templar is a great class? Yes. Does Templar have as much burst in PvP as a Sorcerer? LOL no.

Freaking pile of bullcrap. You missed the memo.

Every heavy armor template for stamina can do and does it with heals (and templar is ironically the only magica class in the position to do that for magica). Not only that but they´re doing it better than a sorc because their defense actually scales with weapondmg AND max resource.
All active defense skills scale with offensive stats and shields are actually the worst mechanic in that regard as they only scale with resource compared to heals which scale with max resource and damagestat.
That the weapondmg stat is easier to stack and offers tremendously better choices of setbonuses (for heavy armor) is just the icing on the cake.

People who tell sorcs to "check their statstacking priviledge" should maybe take a step back and take a look at the game as a whole...

Edit: And don´t get me wrong. I want harness + hardened + pirate skeleton adressed just as anyone else. It´s a problem (and i´ve made countless posts about how it could be adressed reasonably in my opinion) but anyone saying heavy + trollking + any heal really is any different is a little disconnected from reality from my point of view.

Magıc

Neighbor wrote: »

Jawasa wrote: »

Haha i Love the sorc players that try to downplay shield stack after the nerfs. My no CP sorc shield stack for days with no problem atm and still have 2,4 k spell dmg so in bg's next patch all i need to do is change one of My spell dmg glyphs to cost reduction.

It can allready stand a fair chance against every other build in azura now. So with every1 els getting hit with nerfs it's gonna be even easier. So this is Def what i will bring in morrowind if pts dont change anything els.

Yeah that's what people aren't getting. Sorcs are already super strong and everyone else is getting gutted. Any serious PvPer is going to be running Sorc in Morrowind.

I'd like to see Mr @Jawasa providing evidence of this on the PTS. Why? Because me and Hexys calculated for streak (which if you ask all the top sorcs they'll tell you the same thing, they always check the cost of streak when calculating sustain) to be the same cost as current live (as any race that isn't bretonr) you have to race change to breton AND swap ALL 3 jewellery glyphs to cost reduction.

So please think and do the maths @Neighbor before listening to Mr Jawasa who is delusional if he thinks after the changes he can shield stack on pts exactly the same as on live currently with only 1 jewellery glyph being swapped to cost reduction. Harness/healing ward costs 9k on PTS (haven't checked if true, just seen a lot of people claim this) and plenty of top sorcs including Derra himself only play with one shield.

Oh and before Jawasa or anyone else tries to claim I'm bias for my class like they are doing with Derra/Dracane etc. I'm a stamDK main. I'm just not overreacting because I know sorcs will also be hit this patch from the sustain changes.

8% ST buff on flame staves/Dark deal + conversion however really need to be changed. The flame staff buff is causing sorcs to do the insane damage it does. DW sorc has so many weaknesses that if you nerf CFrags like some people are crying about then it'll kill off that complete playstyle.

And, expect sorc nerfs in the upcoming pts cycles anyway. Can't possibly expect Zos to leave sorc untouched, just like last patch where they actually spread the buffs/nerfs over the WHOLE pts instead of just sticking *** all in one cycle.

actosh

@ZOS_RichLambert @Wrobel
Hey, i get all the Sorc hate and ZOS is supposed to do something about that.
Its pretty much easy to fix to achieve some kind of "balance". good players will still rip your ass apart, that will never change, that counts for all classes.

Things that should change in my opinion. Hope we can have a constructive discussion wihtout fanboys defending it to death^^

Shields
They as well as any other stuff should fall into the Major/Minor System to prevent Shield stacking to a certain extend.

Minor shields should be: Annulment, Igneous Shield, Conjured Ward, Blazing Shield, Steadfast Ward.
Major Shields: Barrier

This would limit stacking as u see it to a certain extend in PvP & PvE

Scaling
This is just aimed for Conjured Ward and Steadfast Ward. Those 2 shields should scale as Annulment does, resulting in smaller shields(around 8-10% smaller than currently on live).

CP-Bastion
Needs to be reduced to 15% as all the other stuff. 10% reduce sounds hard on paper, isnt so hard if u compare the values on the server.

Sustain
Dark Exchange & Morphs
This Ability should as well as other ressourcemanagement skills/passives scale with your level.
Overall the skill needs either to be reduced in its restored values

or

the cast & cost have to be raised and u should be charged the cost at the beginning of the cast, not at the end like currently on live. This would make it way more usefull to bash it as a enemy. On live the sorc just gives a *** and does cast it again, if u interupt it he isnt charged the cost or anything else.

Hope a discussion is possible, and i wish u al la nice day ^^

Dracane

actosh wrote: »

@ZOS_RichLambert @Wrobel
Hey, i get all the Sorc hate and ZOS is supposed to do something about that.
Its pretty much easy to fix to achieve some kind of "balance". good players will still rip your ass apart, that will never change, that counts for all classes.

Things that should change in my opinion. Hope we can have a constructive discussion wihtout fanboys defending it to death^^

Shields
They as well as any other stuff should fall into the Major/Minor System to prevent Shield stacking to a certain extend.

Minor shields should be: Annulment, Igneous Shield, Conjured Ward, Blazing Shield, Steadfast Ward.
Major Shields: Barrier

This would limit stacking as u see it to a certain extend in PvP & PvE

Scaling
This is just aimed for Conjured Ward and Steadfast Ward. Those 2 shields should scale as Annulment does, resulting in smaller shields(around 8-10% smaller than currently on live).

CP-Bastion
Needs to be reduced to 15% as all the other stuff. 10% reduce sounds hard on paper, isnt so hard if u compare the values on the server.

Sustain
Dark Exchange & Morphs
This Ability should as well as other ressourcemanagement skills/passives scale with your level.
Overall the skill needs either to be reduced in its restored values

or

the cast & cost have to be raised and u should be charged the cost at the beginning of the cast, not at the end like currently on live. This would make it way more usefull to bash it as a enemy. On live the sorc just gives a *** and does cast it again, if u interupt it he isnt charged the cost or anything else.

Hope a discussion is possible, and i wish u al la nice day ^^

Agreed with the shield minor and major system. The rest is trash.

actosh

Well, Dark Deal is overperforming and fits in no way to their new mentality of ressource management.

Chilly-McFreeze

actosh wrote: »

Well, Dark Deal is overperforming and fits in no way to their new mentality of ressource management.

Minding that every class has a way to return ressources, what other way has a sorc to do just that? DK, NB, Templar don't need to use a channel. Problem is not the skill itself, but rather that it's implemented in a way that doesn't cost you resources if you get interrupted.

actosh

Well then let it cost ressources when activating it. At least this way it would have a reason to interupt it.