Sorcs and Favoritism

Magıc

Neighbor wrote: »

Weps wrote: »

What makes me laugh is Sorcs people complaining about this patch.
Really. If you're saying you're hit the most you need to learn how to play your own class.
I agree with whoever said that stamsorcs are the poster child of abused CPs and sustain problems and I have to add even Magsorcs and their infinite streaking, shield stacking and whatever other freaking features they have.

Again, you fooled the whole community once with that Haunting Curse Homestead PTS 1 "nerf", QQing so much about how you could not put enough pressure on enemy players in PvP, that eventually turned into the greatest buff of recent patches.
Is basically this class that makes it impossible to go around with light and medium armor even in CP campaigns, because sneaky nightblades have counters meanwhile 2 sorcs in the same group will nuke you down from 20 metres away before you could even begin to put pressure on them. Even with heavy armor.

This class has the most effective shield stacking of the game, with Hardened Ward (basically the strongest pure damage shield out there and could easily skyrocket your mitigation to 20k plus in PVP ) that can be stacked on top of Harness Magicka that will basically erase his cost while protecting your butt.
They have Crit Surge who can basically keep them healed while they're murdering you from 20mt away.
They have the Blood Magic passive that will restore you 8% more Health when you cast a Dark Magic ability.
So with a Dark Conversion and a 8k plus C-Frag they will be at full health and full magicka with just 2431 stamina and 4050 magicka. Dark Conversion, of course, untouched by this patch.
They have Unholy Knowledge passive that reduces the cost of magicka and stamina abilities by A LOT and it's the only passive of this kind which remains UNTOUCHED BY THIS PATCH.
They have Capacitator who increases your Magicka Recovery by 10%. Again, untouched by this patch.
They have skills and passives that can increase their max Magicka, Health, Magicka return. And all those skills can also stack Weapon and Spell damage on top of the passive that buffs Physical and Shock Damage that, drum roll please, is helpful to proc their class defyning ability: a second execution. A passive execution.
They have the mobility, the powerful damaging monster set that synergizes so damn well with their shield stacking that grants them the best mitigation out there, they have an uncounterable, unpurgeable and overpowered ability which is Curse, they can put you at execution level with just 3 skills and they can finish you off, all of this while jumping in their mines.
Plus, they synergize so well with Shock staves and a High Elf Mag Sorc can do powerful damage with Force Pulse, both of which are clearly unreflectable and undodgeable beams that will, once again, help you proc the Execution Passive.

And you're saying this is not OP? You're saying you got hit the most? You're saying you're being nerfed in this patch like all other classes who will vanish in the next months or become completely irrelevant in PvP?

Either you don't play your class properly, you never tried to play another class or your completely dishonest and scared shitless to lose even one of these priveledges and have to actually fight and earn your kills and have to actually play skillfully and die as often as any other class instead of just sit in the back, one shotting people and streaking away from every root or ground AoE being applied to you.

And please, don't tell me I have to play the class because my main DPS is a mag Sorc and I can hit almost 20k DPS on console, with a rotation I practiced 1 hour a day for 2 weeks, 35k magicka and 2.3k spell damage and mostly blue and green items equipped while my stam sorc hit 15k DPS with Automaton just fresh outta grinding.
Automaton and random Rubedite swords I pick up farming world mobs. 15k. With basically all the passives to unlock.


Enjoy your class but don't try to justify this s#!t.

Finally someone who understands all this BS. This class is so overtuned in so many ways.

Well you seem to think shields need to be crittable. Can't really take you seriously.

If shields became crittable, shields would become completely pointless to use. Now tell me, how does a sorc fight without shields? There are quite a few sorcs around who only run hardened and not both. They would be completely destroyed if shields became crittable.

The 8% ST buff on flame staves were stupid but it was a PVE buff that has had an impact on PVP too. Curse has been unblockable in ESO's lifetime longer than it has been blockable and that's how it should remain. Pirate skeleton needs to be nerfed completely (infact it should never have made it to live). Dark deal/conversions also need to be nerfed heavily. Amberplasm is OP but Lich really isn't all that OP. Only the top sorcs will be able to sustain in the new resource management system even with lich/amberplasm.

Meanwhile, Streak still increases in cost, which was meant to be the playstyle of Sorcs, mobility, kiting with streak. Not just shield stacking. Although if you see a sorc standing still trying to shield stack they'll become rip within seconds. There is still the need to kite, but that isn't possible after 2-3 streaks with the cost increase on it. ADD ONTO THAT IT STILL *** BUGS.

Sorcs ulti gain isn't all that impressive either. Mines barely matter anymore, zerglings just run through them without a care in the world (even in the light/medium meta, you'd see in duels stam builds just run straight through mines healing up, maybe a different scenario next patch) and boundless doesn't matter anymore cause zerglings just mount and chase you to the end of the world anyway.

Sorcs will be OP although I assume changes are inc in the next few PTS cycles, but godlike? No. Take away the 8% ST buff to flame staves, nerf pirate and dark deal/conversion. Change streaks cost increase and you'll see a more healthier sorc overall for PVP rather than just an OP class alongside stamina warden (that can literally 1 shot anyone in light armour, tested on PTS, literally one shot with certain combos of skills) and magicka warden.

Vosital

Magıc wrote: »

Neighbor wrote: »

Weps wrote: »

What makes me laugh is Sorcs people complaining about this patch.
Really. If you're saying you're hit the most you need to learn how to play your own class.
I agree with whoever said that stamsorcs are the poster child of abused CPs and sustain problems and I have to add even Magsorcs and their infinite streaking, shield stacking and whatever other freaking features they have.

Again, you fooled the whole community once with that Haunting Curse Homestead PTS 1 "nerf", QQing so much about how you could not put enough pressure on enemy players in PvP, that eventually turned into the greatest buff of recent patches.
Is basically this class that makes it impossible to go around with light and medium armor even in CP campaigns, because sneaky nightblades have counters meanwhile 2 sorcs in the same group will nuke you down from 20 metres away before you could even begin to put pressure on them. Even with heavy armor.

This class has the most effective shield stacking of the game, with Hardened Ward (basically the strongest pure damage shield out there and could easily skyrocket your mitigation to 20k plus in PVP ) that can be stacked on top of Harness Magicka that will basically erase his cost while protecting your butt.
They have Crit Surge who can basically keep them healed while they're murdering you from 20mt away.
They have the Blood Magic passive that will restore you 8% more Health when you cast a Dark Magic ability.
So with a Dark Conversion and a 8k plus C-Frag they will be at full health and full magicka with just 2431 stamina and 4050 magicka. Dark Conversion, of course, untouched by this patch.
They have Unholy Knowledge passive that reduces the cost of magicka and stamina abilities by A LOT and it's the only passive of this kind which remains UNTOUCHED BY THIS PATCH.
They have Capacitator who increases your Magicka Recovery by 10%. Again, untouched by this patch.
They have skills and passives that can increase their max Magicka, Health, Magicka return. And all those skills can also stack Weapon and Spell damage on top of the passive that buffs Physical and Shock Damage that, drum roll please, is helpful to proc their class defyning ability: a second execution. A passive execution.
They have the mobility, the powerful damaging monster set that synergizes so damn well with their shield stacking that grants them the best mitigation out there, they have an uncounterable, unpurgeable and overpowered ability which is Curse, they can put you at execution level with just 3 skills and they can finish you off, all of this while jumping in their mines.
Plus, they synergize so well with Shock staves and a High Elf Mag Sorc can do powerful damage with Force Pulse, both of which are clearly unreflectable and undodgeable beams that will, once again, help you proc the Execution Passive.

And you're saying this is not OP? You're saying you got hit the most? You're saying you're being nerfed in this patch like all other classes who will vanish in the next months or become completely irrelevant in PvP?

Either you don't play your class properly, you never tried to play another class or your completely dishonest and scared shitless to lose even one of these priveledges and have to actually fight and earn your kills and have to actually play skillfully and die as often as any other class instead of just sit in the back, one shotting people and streaking away from every root or ground AoE being applied to you.

And please, don't tell me I have to play the class because my main DPS is a mag Sorc and I can hit almost 20k DPS on console, with a rotation I practiced 1 hour a day for 2 weeks, 35k magicka and 2.3k spell damage and mostly blue and green items equipped while my stam sorc hit 15k DPS with Automaton just fresh outta grinding.
Automaton and random Rubedite swords I pick up farming world mobs. 15k. With basically all the passives to unlock.


Enjoy your class but don't try to justify this s#!t.

Finally someone who understands all this BS. This class is so overtuned in so many ways.

Sorcs will be OP although I assume changes are inc in the next few PTS cycles, but godlike? No.

Sorcs are already godlike in Homestead. If this patch goes through, words will not be able to describe the insane disparity between Sorcs and everyone else.

What should have happened this patch was: Nerfs to Sorcs/Shields, and buffs to everyone else. Instead we got the opposite.

Ashamray

HiImRex wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

Drdeath20 wrote: »

Name 1 buff templars got?

Only nerfs.

Losing blinding flashes to radiant destruction might be the only buff.

The only reason 1t was a templar buff was because heavy armor became viable then.

They didn't get buffs. They were just the best in PvE DPS.

Templar can permanently shut a sorc down this coming patch. There's no penalty for reapplying it over and over again, and the sorc can't just CC break to get rid of it.

I'm sure you can guess what I'm talking about.

Templar - eclipse! (gave up entropy/class execute/class dot/backlash/elemental drain/hard CC for this skill)

Sorc - Hardened! Curse! Crushing! Hardened! Crushing!

(3.5 seconds pass)7 sec CC immunity!

Sorc - Hardened! Curse! Crushing! Crushing! Wrath Frag! lul

Templar - melts

yea every templar can "shut down" mag sorcs now

Need to test 1 thing. If you can stun before Eclipse expires, would it work?
Still I think with a new Eclipse magsorcs that usually destroy templars would need more time to kill those yellow spearmen ;3

Izaki

Vosital wrote: »

Magıc wrote: »

Neighbor wrote: »

Weps wrote: »

What makes me laugh is Sorcs people complaining about this patch.
Really. If you're saying you're hit the most you need to learn how to play your own class.
I agree with whoever said that stamsorcs are the poster child of abused CPs and sustain problems and I have to add even Magsorcs and their infinite streaking, shield stacking and whatever other freaking features they have.

Again, you fooled the whole community once with that Haunting Curse Homestead PTS 1 "nerf", QQing so much about how you could not put enough pressure on enemy players in PvP, that eventually turned into the greatest buff of recent patches.
Is basically this class that makes it impossible to go around with light and medium armor even in CP campaigns, because sneaky nightblades have counters meanwhile 2 sorcs in the same group will nuke you down from 20 metres away before you could even begin to put pressure on them. Even with heavy armor.

This class has the most effective shield stacking of the game, with Hardened Ward (basically the strongest pure damage shield out there and could easily skyrocket your mitigation to 20k plus in PVP ) that can be stacked on top of Harness Magicka that will basically erase his cost while protecting your butt.
They have Crit Surge who can basically keep them healed while they're murdering you from 20mt away.
They have the Blood Magic passive that will restore you 8% more Health when you cast a Dark Magic ability.
So with a Dark Conversion and a 8k plus C-Frag they will be at full health and full magicka with just 2431 stamina and 4050 magicka. Dark Conversion, of course, untouched by this patch.
They have Unholy Knowledge passive that reduces the cost of magicka and stamina abilities by A LOT and it's the only passive of this kind which remains UNTOUCHED BY THIS PATCH.
They have Capacitator who increases your Magicka Recovery by 10%. Again, untouched by this patch.
They have skills and passives that can increase their max Magicka, Health, Magicka return. And all those skills can also stack Weapon and Spell damage on top of the passive that buffs Physical and Shock Damage that, drum roll please, is helpful to proc their class defyning ability: a second execution. A passive execution.
They have the mobility, the powerful damaging monster set that synergizes so damn well with their shield stacking that grants them the best mitigation out there, they have an uncounterable, unpurgeable and overpowered ability which is Curse, they can put you at execution level with just 3 skills and they can finish you off, all of this while jumping in their mines.
Plus, they synergize so well with Shock staves and a High Elf Mag Sorc can do powerful damage with Force Pulse, both of which are clearly unreflectable and undodgeable beams that will, once again, help you proc the Execution Passive.

And you're saying this is not OP? You're saying you got hit the most? You're saying you're being nerfed in this patch like all other classes who will vanish in the next months or become completely irrelevant in PvP?

Either you don't play your class properly, you never tried to play another class or your completely dishonest and scared shitless to lose even one of these priveledges and have to actually fight and earn your kills and have to actually play skillfully and die as often as any other class instead of just sit in the back, one shotting people and streaking away from every root or ground AoE being applied to you.

And please, don't tell me I have to play the class because my main DPS is a mag Sorc and I can hit almost 20k DPS on console, with a rotation I practiced 1 hour a day for 2 weeks, 35k magicka and 2.3k spell damage and mostly blue and green items equipped while my stam sorc hit 15k DPS with Automaton just fresh outta grinding.
Automaton and random Rubedite swords I pick up farming world mobs. 15k. With basically all the passives to unlock.


Enjoy your class but don't try to justify this s#!t.

Finally someone who understands all this BS. This class is so overtuned in so many ways.

Sorcs will be OP although I assume changes are inc in the next few PTS cycles, but godlike? No.

Sorcs are already godlike in Homestead. If this patch goes through, words will not be able to describe the insane disparity between Sorcs and everyone else.

What should have happened this patch was: Nerfs to Sorcs/Shields, and buffs to everyone else. Instead we got the opposite.

Yet none of your arguments are actually valid and they don't support your conclusion. All the arguments you guys put out aren't even well thought out.

Stamden

@Magıc

Fine, keep them as non-crittable. But then they need to:

-Remove Bastion CP
-Remove Pirate Skeleton
-Increase cost for consecutive shield casts
-Remove the ability to stack Harness + other shields
-Reduce the magika received from Harness
-Add debuffs that reduce the effectiveness of shields

Honestly, the fact that shields can't be critted causes so much problems though. It just allows Sorcs to go full offense while every other class has to spec for impen. That just makes the damage Sorcs can do that much more ridiculous.

Izaki

HiImRex wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

Drdeath20 wrote: »

Name 1 buff templars got?

Only nerfs.

Losing blinding flashes to radiant destruction might be the only buff.

The only reason 1t was a templar buff was because heavy armor became viable then.

They didn't get buffs. They were just the best in PvE DPS.

Templar can permanently shut a sorc down this coming patch. There's no penalty for reapplying it over and over again, and the sorc can't just CC break to get rid of it.

I'm sure you can guess what I'm talking about.

Templar - eclipse! (gave up entropy/class execute/class dot/backlash/elemental drain/hard CC for this skill)

Sorc - Hardened! Curse! Crushing! Hardened! Crushing!

(3.5 seconds pass)7 sec CC immunity!

Sorc - Hardened! Curse! Crushing! Crushing! Wrath Frag! lul

Templar - melts

yea every templar can "shut down" mag sorcs now

If you don't purge the Curse on a Templar you shouldn't even be on a nerf Sorc thread. Seriously who dies to Force Pulse spam? No one. People die to Curse and Frags. Templars completely shut down Curse.

Ashamray

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

HiImRex wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

Drdeath20 wrote: »

Name 1 buff templars got?

Only nerfs.

Losing blinding flashes to radiant destruction might be the only buff.

The only reason 1t was a templar buff was because heavy armor became viable then.

They didn't get buffs. They were just the best in PvE DPS.

Templar can permanently shut a sorc down this coming patch. There's no penalty for reapplying it over and over again, and the sorc can't just CC break to get rid of it.

I'm sure you can guess what I'm talking about.

Templar - eclipse! (gave up entropy/class execute/class dot/backlash/elemental drain/hard CC for this skill)

Sorc - Hardened! Curse! Crushing! Hardened! Crushing!

(3.5 seconds pass)7 sec CC immunity!

Sorc - Hardened! Curse! Crushing! Crushing! Wrath Frag! lul

Templar - melts

yea every templar can "shut down" mag sorcs now

If you don't purge the Curse on a Templar you shouldn't even be on a nerf Sorc thread. Seriously who dies to Force Pulse spam? No one. People die to Curse and Frags. Templars completely shut down Curse.

Curse explodes after 3.5 sec. It costs much less than purge. Removing each curse in the fight is just a stupid wate of time, magicka and damage. Also it annoys your opponent and kinda shows your disrespect as well as any spam action does.
So yes, templars died, dying and will die due to curse and frags like others, maybe just a bit slower.

FearlessOne_2014

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

I'm 95% sure that they will nerf sorc in the coming PTS patches.

Yeah I agree I'm sure ZOS will not like this oversight go. Unless their is a motive for them to allow Sorcs to skimp free barely touched.

Xsorus wrote: »

Its really simple

Protection doesn't need to work against Shields.

Increase Shield Cost

Those two changes would fix a lot of issues.

Problem with this is that if ZOS did this then, they'd be effectively deleting Sorcs from the game. Some silly players may find joys in other class being effectively removed from the game. But in the end it serves no one. Those players will just move on and cry "nerf this class that I can't be bothered to learn how to beat" and the cycle will continue. ZOS would have to completely redo sorcs defensive capabilities if they take away or make sorc shields useless. Outside of shields a sorc is almost a free kill by "game mechanics ZOS implemented."

Also if shields are your problem while facing against sorcs. All of have to say is change your build and learn to play. I see more Templars, and DKs then I do Sorcs in Trueflame Cyrodiil. Must be because Sorcs are just too OP AF and easy mode right?

Biro123

Shields have had 5 cumulative nerfs this patch. Please read and understand the patch notes.

Aquanova

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

Vosital wrote: »

Magıc wrote: »

Neighbor wrote: »

Weps wrote: »

What makes me laugh is Sorcs people complaining about this patch.
Really. If you're saying you're hit the most you need to learn how to play your own class.
I agree with whoever said that stamsorcs are the poster child of abused CPs and sustain problems and I have to add even Magsorcs and their infinite streaking, shield stacking and whatever other freaking features they have.

Again, you fooled the whole community once with that Haunting Curse Homestead PTS 1 "nerf", QQing so much about how you could not put enough pressure on enemy players in PvP, that eventually turned into the greatest buff of recent patches.
Is basically this class that makes it impossible to go around with light and medium armor even in CP campaigns, because sneaky nightblades have counters meanwhile 2 sorcs in the same group will nuke you down from 20 metres away before you could even begin to put pressure on them. Even with heavy armor.

This class has the most effective shield stacking of the game, with Hardened Ward (basically the strongest pure damage shield out there and could easily skyrocket your mitigation to 20k plus in PVP ) that can be stacked on top of Harness Magicka that will basically erase his cost while protecting your butt.
They have Crit Surge who can basically keep them healed while they're murdering you from 20mt away.
They have the Blood Magic passive that will restore you 8% more Health when you cast a Dark Magic ability.
So with a Dark Conversion and a 8k plus C-Frag they will be at full health and full magicka with just 2431 stamina and 4050 magicka. Dark Conversion, of course, untouched by this patch.
They have Unholy Knowledge passive that reduces the cost of magicka and stamina abilities by A LOT and it's the only passive of this kind which remains UNTOUCHED BY THIS PATCH.
They have Capacitator who increases your Magicka Recovery by 10%. Again, untouched by this patch.
They have skills and passives that can increase their max Magicka, Health, Magicka return. And all those skills can also stack Weapon and Spell damage on top of the passive that buffs Physical and Shock Damage that, drum roll please, is helpful to proc their class defyning ability: a second execution. A passive execution.
They have the mobility, the powerful damaging monster set that synergizes so damn well with their shield stacking that grants them the best mitigation out there, they have an uncounterable, unpurgeable and overpowered ability which is Curse, they can put you at execution level with just 3 skills and they can finish you off, all of this while jumping in their mines.
Plus, they synergize so well with Shock staves and a High Elf Mag Sorc can do powerful damage with Force Pulse, both of which are clearly unreflectable and undodgeable beams that will, once again, help you proc the Execution Passive.

And you're saying this is not OP? You're saying you got hit the most? You're saying you're being nerfed in this patch like all other classes who will vanish in the next months or become completely irrelevant in PvP?

Either you don't play your class properly, you never tried to play another class or your completely dishonest and scared shitless to lose even one of these priveledges and have to actually fight and earn your kills and have to actually play skillfully and die as often as any other class instead of just sit in the back, one shotting people and streaking away from every root or ground AoE being applied to you.

And please, don't tell me I have to play the class because my main DPS is a mag Sorc and I can hit almost 20k DPS on console, with a rotation I practiced 1 hour a day for 2 weeks, 35k magicka and 2.3k spell damage and mostly blue and green items equipped while my stam sorc hit 15k DPS with Automaton just fresh outta grinding.
Automaton and random Rubedite swords I pick up farming world mobs. 15k. With basically all the passives to unlock.


Enjoy your class but don't try to justify this s#!t.

Finally someone who understands all this BS. This class is so overtuned in so many ways.

Sorcs will be OP although I assume changes are inc in the next few PTS cycles, but godlike? No.

Sorcs are already godlike in Homestead. If this patch goes through, words will not be able to describe the insane disparity between Sorcs and everyone else.

What should have happened this patch was: Nerfs to Sorcs/Shields, and buffs to everyone else. Instead we got the opposite.

Yet none of your arguments are actually valid and they don't support your conclusion. All the arguments you guys put out aren't even well thought out.

And yours are? Are you saying you didn't know that Overload restores Magicka? And that coupling that with surge gives you back health? It's like Magblades swallow soul on steroids!

Izaki

Aquanova wrote: »

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

Vosital wrote: »

Magıc wrote: »

Neighbor wrote: »

Weps wrote: »

What makes me laugh is Sorcs people complaining about this patch.
Really. If you're saying you're hit the most you need to learn how to play your own class.
I agree with whoever said that stamsorcs are the poster child of abused CPs and sustain problems and I have to add even Magsorcs and their infinite streaking, shield stacking and whatever other freaking features they have.

Again, you fooled the whole community once with that Haunting Curse Homestead PTS 1 "nerf", QQing so much about how you could not put enough pressure on enemy players in PvP, that eventually turned into the greatest buff of recent patches.
Is basically this class that makes it impossible to go around with light and medium armor even in CP campaigns, because sneaky nightblades have counters meanwhile 2 sorcs in the same group will nuke you down from 20 metres away before you could even begin to put pressure on them. Even with heavy armor.

This class has the most effective shield stacking of the game, with Hardened Ward (basically the strongest pure damage shield out there and could easily skyrocket your mitigation to 20k plus in PVP ) that can be stacked on top of Harness Magicka that will basically erase his cost while protecting your butt.
They have Crit Surge who can basically keep them healed while they're murdering you from 20mt away.
They have the Blood Magic passive that will restore you 8% more Health when you cast a Dark Magic ability.
So with a Dark Conversion and a 8k plus C-Frag they will be at full health and full magicka with just 2431 stamina and 4050 magicka. Dark Conversion, of course, untouched by this patch.
They have Unholy Knowledge passive that reduces the cost of magicka and stamina abilities by A LOT and it's the only passive of this kind which remains UNTOUCHED BY THIS PATCH.
They have Capacitator who increases your Magicka Recovery by 10%. Again, untouched by this patch.
They have skills and passives that can increase their max Magicka, Health, Magicka return. And all those skills can also stack Weapon and Spell damage on top of the passive that buffs Physical and Shock Damage that, drum roll please, is helpful to proc their class defyning ability: a second execution. A passive execution.
They have the mobility, the powerful damaging monster set that synergizes so damn well with their shield stacking that grants them the best mitigation out there, they have an uncounterable, unpurgeable and overpowered ability which is Curse, they can put you at execution level with just 3 skills and they can finish you off, all of this while jumping in their mines.
Plus, they synergize so well with Shock staves and a High Elf Mag Sorc can do powerful damage with Force Pulse, both of which are clearly unreflectable and undodgeable beams that will, once again, help you proc the Execution Passive.

And you're saying this is not OP? You're saying you got hit the most? You're saying you're being nerfed in this patch like all other classes who will vanish in the next months or become completely irrelevant in PvP?

Either you don't play your class properly, you never tried to play another class or your completely dishonest and scared shitless to lose even one of these priveledges and have to actually fight and earn your kills and have to actually play skillfully and die as often as any other class instead of just sit in the back, one shotting people and streaking away from every root or ground AoE being applied to you.

And please, don't tell me I have to play the class because my main DPS is a mag Sorc and I can hit almost 20k DPS on console, with a rotation I practiced 1 hour a day for 2 weeks, 35k magicka and 2.3k spell damage and mostly blue and green items equipped while my stam sorc hit 15k DPS with Automaton just fresh outta grinding.
Automaton and random Rubedite swords I pick up farming world mobs. 15k. With basically all the passives to unlock.


Enjoy your class but don't try to justify this s#!t.

Finally someone who understands all this BS. This class is so overtuned in so many ways.

Sorcs will be OP although I assume changes are inc in the next few PTS cycles, but godlike? No.

Sorcs are already godlike in Homestead. If this patch goes through, words will not be able to describe the insane disparity between Sorcs and everyone else.

What should have happened this patch was: Nerfs to Sorcs/Shields, and buffs to everyone else. Instead we got the opposite.

Yet none of your arguments are actually valid and they don't support your conclusion. All the arguments you guys put out aren't even well thought out.

And yours are? Are you saying you didn't know that Overload restores Magicka? And that coupling that with surge gives you back health? It's like Magblades swallow soul on steroids!

Its an ultimate that has to be stacked and is extremely clunky to use in combat. Please... Who uses Overload nowadays anyway? The projectiles are also extremely slow and easily avoidable.

Pretty sure that all of the stuff I posted is a little more thought out than some of the other stuff on this thread.

Aquanova

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

Aquanova wrote: »

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

Vosital wrote: »

Magıc wrote: »

Neighbor wrote: »

Weps wrote: »

What makes me laugh is Sorcs people complaining about this patch.
Really. If you're saying you're hit the most you need to learn how to play your own class.
I agree with whoever said that stamsorcs are the poster child of abused CPs and sustain problems and I have to add even Magsorcs and their infinite streaking, shield stacking and whatever other freaking features they have.

Again, you fooled the whole community once with that Haunting Curse Homestead PTS 1 "nerf", QQing so much about how you could not put enough pressure on enemy players in PvP, that eventually turned into the greatest buff of recent patches.
Is basically this class that makes it impossible to go around with light and medium armor even in CP campaigns, because sneaky nightblades have counters meanwhile 2 sorcs in the same group will nuke you down from 20 metres away before you could even begin to put pressure on them. Even with heavy armor.

This class has the most effective shield stacking of the game, with Hardened Ward (basically the strongest pure damage shield out there and could easily skyrocket your mitigation to 20k plus in PVP ) that can be stacked on top of Harness Magicka that will basically erase his cost while protecting your butt.
They have Crit Surge who can basically keep them healed while they're murdering you from 20mt away.
They have the Blood Magic passive that will restore you 8% more Health when you cast a Dark Magic ability.
So with a Dark Conversion and a 8k plus C-Frag they will be at full health and full magicka with just 2431 stamina and 4050 magicka. Dark Conversion, of course, untouched by this patch.
They have Unholy Knowledge passive that reduces the cost of magicka and stamina abilities by A LOT and it's the only passive of this kind which remains UNTOUCHED BY THIS PATCH.
They have Capacitator who increases your Magicka Recovery by 10%. Again, untouched by this patch.
They have skills and passives that can increase their max Magicka, Health, Magicka return. And all those skills can also stack Weapon and Spell damage on top of the passive that buffs Physical and Shock Damage that, drum roll please, is helpful to proc their class defyning ability: a second execution. A passive execution.
They have the mobility, the powerful damaging monster set that synergizes so damn well with their shield stacking that grants them the best mitigation out there, they have an uncounterable, unpurgeable and overpowered ability which is Curse, they can put you at execution level with just 3 skills and they can finish you off, all of this while jumping in their mines.
Plus, they synergize so well with Shock staves and a High Elf Mag Sorc can do powerful damage with Force Pulse, both of which are clearly unreflectable and undodgeable beams that will, once again, help you proc the Execution Passive.

And you're saying this is not OP? You're saying you got hit the most? You're saying you're being nerfed in this patch like all other classes who will vanish in the next months or become completely irrelevant in PvP?

Either you don't play your class properly, you never tried to play another class or your completely dishonest and scared shitless to lose even one of these priveledges and have to actually fight and earn your kills and have to actually play skillfully and die as often as any other class instead of just sit in the back, one shotting people and streaking away from every root or ground AoE being applied to you.

And please, don't tell me I have to play the class because my main DPS is a mag Sorc and I can hit almost 20k DPS on console, with a rotation I practiced 1 hour a day for 2 weeks, 35k magicka and 2.3k spell damage and mostly blue and green items equipped while my stam sorc hit 15k DPS with Automaton just fresh outta grinding.
Automaton and random Rubedite swords I pick up farming world mobs. 15k. With basically all the passives to unlock.


Enjoy your class but don't try to justify this s#!t.

Finally someone who understands all this BS. This class is so overtuned in so many ways.

Sorcs will be OP although I assume changes are inc in the next few PTS cycles, but godlike? No.

Sorcs are already godlike in Homestead. If this patch goes through, words will not be able to describe the insane disparity between Sorcs and everyone else.

What should have happened this patch was: Nerfs to Sorcs/Shields, and buffs to everyone else. Instead we got the opposite.

Yet none of your arguments are actually valid and they don't support your conclusion. All the arguments you guys put out aren't even well thought out.

And yours are? Are you saying you didn't know that Overload restores Magicka? And that coupling that with surge gives you back health? It's like Magblades swallow soul on steroids!

Its an ultimate that has to be stacked and is extremely clunky to use in combat. Please... Who uses Overload nowadays anyway? The projectiles are also extremely slow and easily avoidable.

Only the people who need resources back and know when to use it.

Xvorg

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

Weps wrote: »

What makes me laugh is Sorcs people complaining about this patch.
Really. If you're saying you're hit the most you need to learn how to play your own class.
I agree with whoever said that stamsorcs are the poster child of abused CPs and sustain problems and I have to add even Magsorcs and their infinite streaking, shield stacking and whatever other freaking features they have.

Again, you fooled the whole community once with that Haunting Curse Homestead PTS 1 "nerf", QQing so much about how you could not put enough pressure on enemy players in PvP, that eventually turned into the greatest buff of recent patches.
Is basically this class that makes it impossible to go around with light and medium armor even in CP campaigns, because sneaky nightblades have counters meanwhile 2 sorcs in the same group will nuke you down from 20 metres away before you could even begin to put pressure on them. Even with heavy armor.

This class has the most effective shield stacking of the game, with Hardened Ward (basically the strongest pure damage shield out there and could easily skyrocket your mitigation to 20k plus in PVP ) that can be stacked on top of Harness Magicka that will basically erase his cost while protecting your butt.
They have Crit Surge who can basically keep them healed while they're murdering you from 20mt away.
They have the Blood Magic passive that will restore you 8% more Health when you cast a Dark Magic ability.
So with a Dark Conversion and a 8k plus C-Frag they will be at full health and full magicka with just 2431 stamina and 4050 magicka. Dark Conversion, of course, untouched by this patch.
They have Unholy Knowledge passive that reduces the cost of magicka and stamina abilities by A LOT and it's the only passive of this kind which remains UNTOUCHED BY THIS PATCH.
They have Capacitator who increases your Magicka Recovery by 10%. Again, untouched by this patch.
They have skills and passives that can increase their max Magicka, Health, Magicka return. And all those skills can also stack Weapon and Spell damage on top of the passive that buffs Physical and Shock Damage that, drum roll please, is helpful to proc their class defyning ability: a second execution. A passive execution.
They have the mobility, the powerful damaging monster set that synergizes so damn well with their shield stacking that grants them the best mitigation out there, they have an uncounterable, unpurgeable and overpowered ability which is Curse, they can put you at execution level with just 3 skills and they can finish you off, all of this while jumping in their mines.
Plus, they synergize so well with Shock staves and a High Elf Mag Sorc can do powerful damage with Force Pulse, both of which are clearly unreflectable and undodgeable beams that will, once again, help you proc the Execution Passive.

And you're saying this is not OP? You're saying you got hit the most? You're saying you're being nerfed in this patch like all other classes who will vanish in the next months or become completely irrelevant in PvP?

Either you don't play your class properly, you never tried to play another class or your completely dishonest and scared shitless to lose even one of these priveledges and have to actually fight and earn your kills and have to actually play skillfully and die as often as any other class instead of just sit in the back, one shotting people and streaking away from every root or ground AoE being applied to you.

And please, don't tell me I have to play the class because my main DPS is a mag Sorc and I can hit almost 20k DPS on console, with a rotation I practiced 1 hour a day for 2 weeks, 35k magicka and 2.3k spell damage and mostly blue and green items equipped while my stam sorc hit 15k DPS with Automaton just fresh outta grinding.
Automaton and random Rubedite swords I pick up farming world mobs. 15k. With basically all the passives to unlock.


Enjoy your class but don't try to justify this s#!t.

You forgot the passive that reduces the ulti cost in the same amout Akaviri Dragonguard (a 5 pieces set) does

Yeah, at this point bring in the Catalyst passive (20 ult on potion use), the Siphoning passive (every 4 seconds gain 2 extra ultimate), the Dawn's Wrath passive (3 ult every 6 seconds) and the Earthen Heart passive (3 ult every 6 seconds). All of these give roughly the same ultimate gain as the Powerstone passive.

Do you know the catalist passive can be used each 45 secs? Than you need 40 secs to get 20 ulti with siph passive? and that together they reach simiar numbers to the reduction provided by power stone if you are aiming for EOTS?

In other words, you need at least 45 secs of depleting your magicka pool and potion inventory to get what sorcs has granted...

Seriously, try harder

@Xvorg
Destro ultimate on a Sorc costs 213 ult. The only ultimate gain Sorcs have is the basic ultimate gain, aka Light, Heavy attacks and block, this is 3 ultimate every second for 9 seconds. From here its pretty easy to see that it will take a Sorc 71 seconds to get the Destro ult charged.

Destro ultimate on a NB costs 250 ult. With the standard ult gain and the siphoning passive, you have the standard ult gain + the extra 2 ult every 2 seconds. This is basically 4 ult per second. Which gives you 62.5 seconds to charge the Destro ult. And that's without the potions. So lets take into account the potions. Basically, you start with 0 ult and you drink your potion, that gives you 20 ult right off the bat, which basically takes the cost down to 230 ultimate. At this point, you'll take 57.5 seconds to get your destro ult, if you don't drink a second potion. If you do, then it will take you 52.5 seconds to charge a Destro ult if a Siphoning ability is cast every 2 seconds (not hard at all). So a NB will get a destro ultimate almost 20 seconds faster than a Sorc would. That's quite a large margin. Even if you don't use a siphing abilty every 2 seconds, you'll still get your ult faster than a sorc would.

So what were you saying? Try harder? I think that applies to you

Yes, mageblades using strife can build ulti in 62.5 secs, I acknowledge that. The other skills in that line are not going to help you to do it because:

1- Cripple is a dot that lasts 8 secs, so you can go on spamming it each 4 secs to get 2 ulti
2- Agony doesn't work on an enemy that broke CC
3- Casting and recasting siph strikes each 4 secs is idiotic
4- Drain power requires an enemy at 8 mts at least and is a so expensive skill that is prohibitive to spam it.

So, to build ulti in 62.5 secs you must:

1- Be a mageblade (stamblades are out of the equation)
2- Slot (and use) strife (the skill nerfed last patch, right?)

What's the word we use in this case? Something about pigeons and holes, do you remember?

If you are a mageblade aiming for DPS, you use force pulse instead of strife and you have to build all the way long from 0 to 250 ulti.

On the other hand, the sorc passive benefits any build, whether it's stam or magicka based. Then, who's on a better spot?

Please TRY HARDER!

melloni_aleb16_ESO

Magıc wrote: »

Neighbor wrote: »

Weps wrote: »

What makes me laugh is Sorcs people complaining about this patch.
Really. If you're saying you're hit the most you need to learn how to play your own class.
I agree with whoever said that stamsorcs are the poster child of abused CPs and sustain problems and I have to add even Magsorcs and their infinite streaking, shield stacking and whatever other freaking features they have.

Again, you fooled the whole community once with that Haunting Curse Homestead PTS 1 "nerf", QQing so much about how you could not put enough pressure on enemy players in PvP, that eventually turned into the greatest buff of recent patches.
Is basically this class that makes it impossible to go around with light and medium armor even in CP campaigns, because sneaky nightblades have counters meanwhile 2 sorcs in the same group will nuke you down from 20 metres away before you could even begin to put pressure on them. Even with heavy armor.

This class has the most effective shield stacking of the game, with Hardened Ward (basically the strongest pure damage shield out there and could easily skyrocket your mitigation to 20k plus in PVP ) that can be stacked on top of Harness Magicka that will basically erase his cost while protecting your butt.
They have Crit Surge who can basically keep them healed while they're murdering you from 20mt away.
They have the Blood Magic passive that will restore you 8% more Health when you cast a Dark Magic ability.
So with a Dark Conversion and a 8k plus C-Frag they will be at full health and full magicka with just 2431 stamina and 4050 magicka. Dark Conversion, of course, untouched by this patch.
They have Unholy Knowledge passive that reduces the cost of magicka and stamina abilities by A LOT and it's the only passive of this kind which remains UNTOUCHED BY THIS PATCH.
They have Capacitator who increases your Magicka Recovery by 10%. Again, untouched by this patch.
They have skills and passives that can increase their max Magicka, Health, Magicka return. And all those skills can also stack Weapon and Spell damage on top of the passive that buffs Physical and Shock Damage that, drum roll please, is helpful to proc their class defyning ability: a second execution. A passive execution.
They have the mobility, the powerful damaging monster set that synergizes so damn well with their shield stacking that grants them the best mitigation out there, they have an uncounterable, unpurgeable and overpowered ability which is Curse, they can put you at execution level with just 3 skills and they can finish you off, all of this while jumping in their mines.
Plus, they synergize so well with Shock staves and a High Elf Mag Sorc can do powerful damage with Force Pulse, both of which are clearly unreflectable and undodgeable beams that will, once again, help you proc the Execution Passive.

And you're saying this is not OP? You're saying you got hit the most? You're saying you're being nerfed in this patch like all other classes who will vanish in the next months or become completely irrelevant in PvP?

Either you don't play your class properly, you never tried to play another class or your completely dishonest and scared shitless to lose even one of these priveledges and have to actually fight and earn your kills and have to actually play skillfully and die as often as any other class instead of just sit in the back, one shotting people and streaking away from every root or ground AoE being applied to you.

And please, don't tell me I have to play the class because my main DPS is a mag Sorc and I can hit almost 20k DPS on console, with a rotation I practiced 1 hour a day for 2 weeks, 35k magicka and 2.3k spell damage and mostly blue and green items equipped while my stam sorc hit 15k DPS with Automaton just fresh outta grinding.
Automaton and random Rubedite swords I pick up farming world mobs. 15k. With basically all the passives to unlock.


Enjoy your class but don't try to justify this s#!t.

Finally someone who understands all this BS. This class is so overtuned in so many ways.

Well you seem to think shields need to be crittable. Can't really take you seriously.

If shields became crittable, shields would become completely pointless to use. Now tell me, how does a sorc fight without shields? There are quite a few sorcs around who only run hardened and not both. They would be completely destroyed if shields became crittable.

The 8% ST buff on flame staves were stupid but it was a PVE buff that has had an impact on PVP too. Curse has been unblockable in ESO's lifetime longer than it has been blockable and that's how it should remain. Pirate skeleton needs to be nerfed completely (infact it should never have made it to live). Dark deal/conversions also need to be nerfed heavily. Amberplasm is OP but Lich really isn't all that OP. Only the top sorcs will be able to sustain in the new resource management system even with lich/amberplasm.

Meanwhile, Streak still increases in cost, which was meant to be the playstyle of Sorcs, mobility, kiting with streak. Not just shield stacking. Although if you see a sorc standing still trying to shield stack they'll become rip within seconds. There is still the need to kite, but that isn't possible after 2-3 streaks with the cost increase on it. ADD ONTO THAT IT STILL *** BUGS.

Sorcs ulti gain isn't all that impressive either. Mines barely matter anymore, zerglings just run through them without a care in the world (even in the light/medium meta, you'd see in duels stam builds just run straight through mines healing up, maybe a different scenario next patch) and boundless doesn't matter anymore cause zerglings just mount and chase you to the end of the world anyway.

Sorcs will be OP although I assume changes are inc in the next few PTS cycles, but godlike? No. Take away the 8% ST buff to flame staves, nerf pirate and dark deal/conversion. Change streaks cost increase and you'll see a more healthier sorc overall for PVP rather than just an OP class alongside stamina warden (that can literally 1 shot anyone in light armour, tested on PTS, literally one shot with certain combos of skills) and magicka warden.

( I'm talking about stamina class )

If the dps decreases because the game forces you to use e glyph reduction on jewelry and build with regen-sets ,
I think something in the magick-shields -stacking should be done ..no?
In addition if the stamina will be forced to play in the medium armour they take very high damages and don't have an additional heals bonus /mitigation damage given by heavy armour ...
It would be necessary to deepen the discourse views the general changes to all that concerns " stamina " classes


I would say these two changes would be a start

-Remove Bastion CP
-Remove Pirate Skeleton


I still intend to try the sorcerer on the pts..

sorry for my bad english

Malamar1229

Vaoh wrote: »

With all of these cost reductions and such I'm getting the feeling that Sorcs will have to put out low damage in order to sustain their shields even remotely well at all.

People should be calling for the Pirate Skeleton monster set to be nerfed. This is what grants Mag Sorcs the over-the-top survivability they have now.

YEP


For the rest of you Sorc Haters: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/337266/re-sorc-shields#latest

Magıc

Neighbor wrote: »

@Magıc

Fine, keep them as non-crittable. But then they need to:

-Remove Bastion CP
-Remove Pirate Skeleton
-Increase cost for consecutive shield casts
-Remove the ability to stack Harness + other shields
-Reduce the magika received from Harness
-Add debuffs that reduce the effectiveness of shields

Honestly, the fact that shields can't be critted causes so much problems though. It just allows Sorcs to go full offense while every other class has to spec for impen. That just makes the damage Sorcs can do that much more ridiculous.

@Neighbor

-Bastion CP I'm not sure. Shields are fairly weak in Azura for example, especially vs proc sets and with proc sets about to enter the CP meta again due to the sustain changes, I'm hesistant. Nerf it? Sure. I maybe should have been reduced to 15% instead of staying at 25%.
-Pirate I agree
-Increase cost for consecutive shield casts I disagree on. Why? Because if you've seen a Sorc without shields down, they can literally get killed within 2 or 3 seconds from full health, 1 second from full health by stam warden currently on PTS (stam warden is actually disgusting in duels, not sure about open world). However this links heavily with harness/dampen. They shouldn't stack. One of the best sorcs in EU (Derra) plays with only hardened as do many others. If they're forced to take damage just to sustain that's completely game breaking for sorcs.
-As I said, harness/dampen shouldn't stack with hardened, links with the previous point.
-Reduce it I agree. I gain magicka from casting harness lol...
-Debuffs to shields? Not sure at the moment. Same as the bastion CP point. They aren't going to be very strong vs proc sets when they return to the meta so having debuffs on them as well will only kill them off and kill off sorc as a class. If proc sets weren't a thing you could maybe argue for this/bastion CP changes.

Sorcs aren't 'godlike' right now except vs Stamblades imo. Also, ask the top sorcs whether they run impen on their gear or divines/other traits. Almost every sorc runs impen (I personally run a mixture of impen/infused/well fitted) even with shields because one mistake can literally cost your life as a sorc. On a stamdk for example you can make mistake after mistake after mistake for 10 minutes straight and not die.

I'm not a mag sorc main either. I'm a stamDK main and forever will be (#stamDKlivesmatter). But I've played enough of it, observed and played with and fought some of the best sorcs in EU to know the class quite well.

Izaki

Xvorg wrote: »

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

Weps wrote: »

What makes me laugh is Sorcs people complaining about this patch.
Really. If you're saying you're hit the most you need to learn how to play your own class.
I agree with whoever said that stamsorcs are the poster child of abused CPs and sustain problems and I have to add even Magsorcs and their infinite streaking, shield stacking and whatever other freaking features they have.

Again, you fooled the whole community once with that Haunting Curse Homestead PTS 1 "nerf", QQing so much about how you could not put enough pressure on enemy players in PvP, that eventually turned into the greatest buff of recent patches.
Is basically this class that makes it impossible to go around with light and medium armor even in CP campaigns, because sneaky nightblades have counters meanwhile 2 sorcs in the same group will nuke you down from 20 metres away before you could even begin to put pressure on them. Even with heavy armor.

This class has the most effective shield stacking of the game, with Hardened Ward (basically the strongest pure damage shield out there and could easily skyrocket your mitigation to 20k plus in PVP ) that can be stacked on top of Harness Magicka that will basically erase his cost while protecting your butt.
They have Crit Surge who can basically keep them healed while they're murdering you from 20mt away.
They have the Blood Magic passive that will restore you 8% more Health when you cast a Dark Magic ability.
So with a Dark Conversion and a 8k plus C-Frag they will be at full health and full magicka with just 2431 stamina and 4050 magicka. Dark Conversion, of course, untouched by this patch.
They have Unholy Knowledge passive that reduces the cost of magicka and stamina abilities by A LOT and it's the only passive of this kind which remains UNTOUCHED BY THIS PATCH.
They have Capacitator who increases your Magicka Recovery by 10%. Again, untouched by this patch.
They have skills and passives that can increase their max Magicka, Health, Magicka return. And all those skills can also stack Weapon and Spell damage on top of the passive that buffs Physical and Shock Damage that, drum roll please, is helpful to proc their class defyning ability: a second execution. A passive execution.
They have the mobility, the powerful damaging monster set that synergizes so damn well with their shield stacking that grants them the best mitigation out there, they have an uncounterable, unpurgeable and overpowered ability which is Curse, they can put you at execution level with just 3 skills and they can finish you off, all of this while jumping in their mines.
Plus, they synergize so well with Shock staves and a High Elf Mag Sorc can do powerful damage with Force Pulse, both of which are clearly unreflectable and undodgeable beams that will, once again, help you proc the Execution Passive.

And you're saying this is not OP? You're saying you got hit the most? You're saying you're being nerfed in this patch like all other classes who will vanish in the next months or become completely irrelevant in PvP?

Either you don't play your class properly, you never tried to play another class or your completely dishonest and scared shitless to lose even one of these priveledges and have to actually fight and earn your kills and have to actually play skillfully and die as often as any other class instead of just sit in the back, one shotting people and streaking away from every root or ground AoE being applied to you.

And please, don't tell me I have to play the class because my main DPS is a mag Sorc and I can hit almost 20k DPS on console, with a rotation I practiced 1 hour a day for 2 weeks, 35k magicka and 2.3k spell damage and mostly blue and green items equipped while my stam sorc hit 15k DPS with Automaton just fresh outta grinding.
Automaton and random Rubedite swords I pick up farming world mobs. 15k. With basically all the passives to unlock.


Enjoy your class but don't try to justify this s#!t.

You forgot the passive that reduces the ulti cost in the same amout Akaviri Dragonguard (a 5 pieces set) does

Yeah, at this point bring in the Catalyst passive (20 ult on potion use), the Siphoning passive (every 4 seconds gain 2 extra ultimate), the Dawn's Wrath passive (3 ult every 6 seconds) and the Earthen Heart passive (3 ult every 6 seconds). All of these give roughly the same ultimate gain as the Powerstone passive.

Do you know the catalist passive can be used each 45 secs? Than you need 40 secs to get 20 ulti with siph passive? and that together they reach simiar numbers to the reduction provided by power stone if you are aiming for EOTS?

In other words, you need at least 45 secs of depleting your magicka pool and potion inventory to get what sorcs has granted...

Seriously, try harder

@Xvorg
Destro ultimate on a Sorc costs 213 ult. The only ultimate gain Sorcs have is the basic ultimate gain, aka Light, Heavy attacks and block, this is 3 ultimate every second for 9 seconds. From here its pretty easy to see that it will take a Sorc 71 seconds to get the Destro ult charged.

Destro ultimate on a NB costs 250 ult. With the standard ult gain and the siphoning passive, you have the standard ult gain + the extra 2 ult every 2 seconds. This is basically 4 ult per second. Which gives you 62.5 seconds to charge the Destro ult. And that's without the potions. So lets take into account the potions. Basically, you start with 0 ult and you drink your potion, that gives you 20 ult right off the bat, which basically takes the cost down to 230 ultimate. At this point, you'll take 57.5 seconds to get your destro ult, if you don't drink a second potion. If you do, then it will take you 52.5 seconds to charge a Destro ult if a Siphoning ability is cast every 2 seconds (not hard at all). So a NB will get a destro ultimate almost 20 seconds faster than a Sorc would. That's quite a large margin. Even if you don't use a siphing abilty every 2 seconds, you'll still get your ult faster than a sorc would.

So what were you saying? Try harder? I think that applies to you

Yes, mageblades using strife can build ulti in 62.5 secs, I acknowledge that. The other skills in that line are not going to help you to do it because:

1- Cripple is a dot that lasts 8 secs, so you can go on spamming it each 4 secs to get 2 ulti
2- Agony doesn't work on an enemy that broke CC
3- Casting and recasting siph strikes each 4 secs is idiotic
4- Drain power requires an enemy at 8 mts at least and is a so expensive skill that is prohibitive to spam it.

So, to build ulti in 62.5 secs you must:

1- Be a mageblade (stamblades are out of the equation)
2- Slot (and use) strife (the skill nerfed last patch, right?)

What's the word we use in this case? Something about pigeons and holes, do you remember?

If you are a mageblade aiming for DPS, you use force pulse instead of strife and you have to build all the way long from 0 to 250 ulti.

On the other hand, the sorc passive benefits any build, whether it's stam or magicka based. Then, who's on a better spot?

Please TRY HARDER!

Yeah, even without activating a Siphoning Ability AT ALL, you're still gaining ultimate at the same rate as a Sorc (2 potions = 40 ult, 15% cost reduction on Destro ult = 37 ult). But who are you kidding here? Magblades activate Siphoning abilities at least every 8 seconds for Cripple so lets say you're activating Siphoning attacks every 16 seconds too. That gives you an extra 6 ultimate every 16 seconds in total right? With 2 potions you're still gaining a destro ult after 62.2 sec. That's still almost 10 sec faster than a Sorc. Now if you don't have any sustain issues, and not using Siphoning Attacks at all, with just Cripple and Potions you're gaining a Destro ultimate in 64.6 seconds.
Since you were the one who started talking about DPS, then you should be using potions on cooldown for the Spell Damage and the Spell Crit buffs. So what's your point?

In AoE situations Sap Essense is the strongest magicka AoE in the game, so of course you're gonna spam it and at that point you'll have even higher ultimate gain. In every situation outside of trials, you're using Strife as your spammable, and at that point you are definitely gaining your Destro Ult faster than a Sorc. And don't forget Soul Harvest which just straight up 12 ultimate for anything you kill.

Also I have a question for you: why do you bring up stamblades when we are talking about destro ult? Running out of stupid arguments yet?
Well, as a matter of fact lets take a look at that too. For all ultimates cheaper than 150 ultimate, the Catalyst passive is better than the Power Stone passive. And as soon as the ultimate is expensive enough to be able to drink 2 potions (165 ult cost), Catalyst becomes better once again, all the way up until 250 ult where both passives even out once again. So the only time Power Stone is better than Catalyst is between 150 and 165 ult, and guess what? There are no ultimates between 150 and 165.
Well... Rend costs 150 ultimate so Catalyst = Power Stone. Dawnbreaker costs 125 so Catalyst > Power Stone. Ballista costs 175 ult so Catalyst > Power Stone. So for all stamina ultimates NB has a better ultimate gain than Sorcs.

I've heard stupid stuff, but saying that Power Stone is OP, is the stupidest thing I've heard to date on Sorcs. NBs have the best ultimate regen in the game and you're trying to argue against a fact established long ago. But my point was, every class have ultimate gain that is equal, with NBs being the exception. You can try harder still mate. But if you make false claims when there's simple math to prove you wrong, you're always going to lose. Please verify your statements before making them.

Xvorg

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

Weps wrote: »

What makes me laugh is Sorcs people complaining about this patch.
Really. If you're saying you're hit the most you need to learn how to play your own class.
I agree with whoever said that stamsorcs are the poster child of abused CPs and sustain problems and I have to add even Magsorcs and their infinite streaking, shield stacking and whatever other freaking features they have.

Again, you fooled the whole community once with that Haunting Curse Homestead PTS 1 "nerf", QQing so much about how you could not put enough pressure on enemy players in PvP, that eventually turned into the greatest buff of recent patches.
Is basically this class that makes it impossible to go around with light and medium armor even in CP campaigns, because sneaky nightblades have counters meanwhile 2 sorcs in the same group will nuke you down from 20 metres away before you could even begin to put pressure on them. Even with heavy armor.

This class has the most effective shield stacking of the game, with Hardened Ward (basically the strongest pure damage shield out there and could easily skyrocket your mitigation to 20k plus in PVP ) that can be stacked on top of Harness Magicka that will basically erase his cost while protecting your butt.
They have Crit Surge who can basically keep them healed while they're murdering you from 20mt away.
They have the Blood Magic passive that will restore you 8% more Health when you cast a Dark Magic ability.
So with a Dark Conversion and a 8k plus C-Frag they will be at full health and full magicka with just 2431 stamina and 4050 magicka. Dark Conversion, of course, untouched by this patch.
They have Unholy Knowledge passive that reduces the cost of magicka and stamina abilities by A LOT and it's the only passive of this kind which remains UNTOUCHED BY THIS PATCH.
They have Capacitator who increases your Magicka Recovery by 10%. Again, untouched by this patch.
They have skills and passives that can increase their max Magicka, Health, Magicka return. And all those skills can also stack Weapon and Spell damage on top of the passive that buffs Physical and Shock Damage that, drum roll please, is helpful to proc their class defyning ability: a second execution. A passive execution.
They have the mobility, the powerful damaging monster set that synergizes so damn well with their shield stacking that grants them the best mitigation out there, they have an uncounterable, unpurgeable and overpowered ability which is Curse, they can put you at execution level with just 3 skills and they can finish you off, all of this while jumping in their mines.
Plus, they synergize so well with Shock staves and a High Elf Mag Sorc can do powerful damage with Force Pulse, both of which are clearly unreflectable and undodgeable beams that will, once again, help you proc the Execution Passive.

And you're saying this is not OP? You're saying you got hit the most? You're saying you're being nerfed in this patch like all other classes who will vanish in the next months or become completely irrelevant in PvP?

Either you don't play your class properly, you never tried to play another class or your completely dishonest and scared shitless to lose even one of these priveledges and have to actually fight and earn your kills and have to actually play skillfully and die as often as any other class instead of just sit in the back, one shotting people and streaking away from every root or ground AoE being applied to you.

And please, don't tell me I have to play the class because my main DPS is a mag Sorc and I can hit almost 20k DPS on console, with a rotation I practiced 1 hour a day for 2 weeks, 35k magicka and 2.3k spell damage and mostly blue and green items equipped while my stam sorc hit 15k DPS with Automaton just fresh outta grinding.
Automaton and random Rubedite swords I pick up farming world mobs. 15k. With basically all the passives to unlock.


Enjoy your class but don't try to justify this s#!t.

You forgot the passive that reduces the ulti cost in the same amout Akaviri Dragonguard (a 5 pieces set) does

Yeah, at this point bring in the Catalyst passive (20 ult on potion use), the Siphoning passive (every 4 seconds gain 2 extra ultimate), the Dawn's Wrath passive (3 ult every 6 seconds) and the Earthen Heart passive (3 ult every 6 seconds). All of these give roughly the same ultimate gain as the Powerstone passive.

Do you know the catalist passive can be used each 45 secs? Than you need 40 secs to get 20 ulti with siph passive? and that together they reach simiar numbers to the reduction provided by power stone if you are aiming for EOTS?

In other words, you need at least 45 secs of depleting your magicka pool and potion inventory to get what sorcs has granted...

Seriously, try harder

@Xvorg
Destro ultimate on a Sorc costs 213 ult. The only ultimate gain Sorcs have is the basic ultimate gain, aka Light, Heavy attacks and block, this is 3 ultimate every second for 9 seconds. From here its pretty easy to see that it will take a Sorc 71 seconds to get the Destro ult charged.

Destro ultimate on a NB costs 250 ult. With the standard ult gain and the siphoning passive, you have the standard ult gain + the extra 2 ult every 2 seconds. This is basically 4 ult per second. Which gives you 62.5 seconds to charge the Destro ult. And that's without the potions. So lets take into account the potions. Basically, you start with 0 ult and you drink your potion, that gives you 20 ult right off the bat, which basically takes the cost down to 230 ultimate. At this point, you'll take 57.5 seconds to get your destro ult, if you don't drink a second potion. If you do, then it will take you 52.5 seconds to charge a Destro ult if a Siphoning ability is cast every 2 seconds (not hard at all). So a NB will get a destro ultimate almost 20 seconds faster than a Sorc would. That's quite a large margin. Even if you don't use a siphing abilty every 2 seconds, you'll still get your ult faster than a sorc would.

So what were you saying? Try harder? I think that applies to you

Yes, mageblades using strife can build ulti in 62.5 secs, I acknowledge that. The other skills in that line are not going to help you to do it because:

1- Cripple is a dot that lasts 8 secs, so you can go on spamming it each 4 secs to get 2 ulti
2- Agony doesn't work on an enemy that broke CC
3- Casting and recasting siph strikes each 4 secs is idiotic
4- Drain power requires an enemy at 8 mts at least and is a so expensive skill that is prohibitive to spam it.

So, to build ulti in 62.5 secs you must:

1- Be a mageblade (stamblades are out of the equation)
2- Slot (and use) strife (the skill nerfed last patch, right?)

What's the word we use in this case? Something about pigeons and holes, do you remember?

If you are a mageblade aiming for DPS, you use force pulse instead of strife and you have to build all the way long from 0 to 250 ulti.

On the other hand, the sorc passive benefits any build, whether it's stam or magicka based. Then, who's on a better spot?

Please TRY HARDER!

Yeah, even without activating a Siphoning Ability AT ALL, you're still gaining ultimate at the same rate as a Sorc (2 potions = 40 ult, 15% cost reduction on Destro ult = 37 ult). But who are you kidding here? Magblades activate Siphoning abilities at least every 8 seconds for Cripple so lets say you're activating Siphoning attacks every 16 seconds too. That gives you an extra 6 ultimate every 16 seconds in total right? With 2 potions you're still gaining a destro ult after 62.2 sec. That's still almost 10 sec faster than a Sorc. Now if you don't have any sustain issues, and not using Siphoning Attacks at all, with just Cripple and Potions you're gaining a Destro ultimate in 64.6 seconds.
Since you were the one who started talking about DPS, then you should be using potions on cooldown for the Spell Damage and the Spell Crit buffs. So what's your point?

In AoE situations Sap Essense is the strongest magicka AoE in the game, so of course you're gonna spam it and at that point you'll have even higher ultimate gain. In every situation outside of trials, you're using Strife as your spammable, and at that point you are definitely gaining your Destro Ult faster than a Sorc. And don't forget Soul Harvest which just straight up 12 ultimate for anything you kill.

Also I have a question for you: why do you bring up stamblades when we are talking about destro ult? Running out of stupid arguments yet?
Well, as a matter of fact lets take a look at that too. For all ultimates cheaper than 150 ultimate, the Catalyst passive is better than the Power Stone passive. And as soon as the ultimate is expensive enough to be able to drink 2 potions (165 ult cost), Catalyst becomes better once again, all the way up until 250 ult where both passives even out once again. So the only time Power Stone is better than Catalyst is between 150 and 165 ult, and guess what? There are no ultimates between 150 and 165.
Well... Rend costs 150 ultimate so Catalyst = Power Stone. Dawnbreaker costs 125 so Catalyst > Power Stone. Ballista costs 175 ult so Catalyst > Power Stone. So for all stamina ultimates NB has a better ultimate gain than Sorcs.

I've heard stupid stuff, but saying that Power Stone is OP, is the stupidest thing I've heard to date on Sorcs. NBs have the best ultimate regen in the game and you're trying to argue against a fact established long ago. But my point was, every class have ultimate gain that is equal, with NBs being the exception. You can try harder still mate. But if you make false claims when there's simple math to prove you wrong, you're always going to lose. Please verify your statements before making them.

1- I have news for you. Siph strikes now is a 20 sec buff...
2- Sap essence is still a magicka AoE, Stam can't and won't use drain power as long as it is now.
3- Power stone benefits any kind of buld, Yes, I took the EoTS example because of it's cost, but I could have use any other skill. Lets say DBoS, who can build the ulti requirement faster, stamblade or stam sorc?
4- You can't say the catalyst passive is better than power stone passve under any point. Catalyst gives you 20 ulti each 45 secs, but you need to invest time gathering mats and making potions, or gold buying those potions. What's the price the sorc has to pay for power stone? Nothing, just a free passive.
5- Stupid things begin not assuming that sorcs are in the best spot than any other class in this game. Sorcs are affected by general changes as any other class, but heck! They haven't been touch in specific nerfs as temps, NBs and DKs have, so what's the impression non sorcs have about this?

And what's worst in this case is that you, sorcs consider other classes changes FAIR, elaborating complicated maths to stand your points. a 15% cost reduction in Uti is a very strong passive for the class with the stronger burst in this game. If you deny that then you are denying any of the arguments you used to raise the cost of Incap... or you forgot about that?

Izaki

Xvorg wrote: »

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

Weps wrote: »

What makes me laugh is Sorcs people complaining about this patch.
Really. If you're saying you're hit the most you need to learn how to play your own class.
I agree with whoever said that stamsorcs are the poster child of abused CPs and sustain problems and I have to add even Magsorcs and their infinite streaking, shield stacking and whatever other freaking features they have.

Again, you fooled the whole community once with that Haunting Curse Homestead PTS 1 "nerf", QQing so much about how you could not put enough pressure on enemy players in PvP, that eventually turned into the greatest buff of recent patches.
Is basically this class that makes it impossible to go around with light and medium armor even in CP campaigns, because sneaky nightblades have counters meanwhile 2 sorcs in the same group will nuke you down from 20 metres away before you could even begin to put pressure on them. Even with heavy armor.

This class has the most effective shield stacking of the game, with Hardened Ward (basically the strongest pure damage shield out there and could easily skyrocket your mitigation to 20k plus in PVP ) that can be stacked on top of Harness Magicka that will basically erase his cost while protecting your butt.
They have Crit Surge who can basically keep them healed while they're murdering you from 20mt away.
They have the Blood Magic passive that will restore you 8% more Health when you cast a Dark Magic ability.
So with a Dark Conversion and a 8k plus C-Frag they will be at full health and full magicka with just 2431 stamina and 4050 magicka. Dark Conversion, of course, untouched by this patch.
They have Unholy Knowledge passive that reduces the cost of magicka and stamina abilities by A LOT and it's the only passive of this kind which remains UNTOUCHED BY THIS PATCH.
They have Capacitator who increases your Magicka Recovery by 10%. Again, untouched by this patch.
They have skills and passives that can increase their max Magicka, Health, Magicka return. And all those skills can also stack Weapon and Spell damage on top of the passive that buffs Physical and Shock Damage that, drum roll please, is helpful to proc their class defyning ability: a second execution. A passive execution.
They have the mobility, the powerful damaging monster set that synergizes so damn well with their shield stacking that grants them the best mitigation out there, they have an uncounterable, unpurgeable and overpowered ability which is Curse, they can put you at execution level with just 3 skills and they can finish you off, all of this while jumping in their mines.
Plus, they synergize so well with Shock staves and a High Elf Mag Sorc can do powerful damage with Force Pulse, both of which are clearly unreflectable and undodgeable beams that will, once again, help you proc the Execution Passive.

And you're saying this is not OP? You're saying you got hit the most? You're saying you're being nerfed in this patch like all other classes who will vanish in the next months or become completely irrelevant in PvP?

Either you don't play your class properly, you never tried to play another class or your completely dishonest and scared shitless to lose even one of these priveledges and have to actually fight and earn your kills and have to actually play skillfully and die as often as any other class instead of just sit in the back, one shotting people and streaking away from every root or ground AoE being applied to you.

And please, don't tell me I have to play the class because my main DPS is a mag Sorc and I can hit almost 20k DPS on console, with a rotation I practiced 1 hour a day for 2 weeks, 35k magicka and 2.3k spell damage and mostly blue and green items equipped while my stam sorc hit 15k DPS with Automaton just fresh outta grinding.
Automaton and random Rubedite swords I pick up farming world mobs. 15k. With basically all the passives to unlock.


Enjoy your class but don't try to justify this s#!t.

You forgot the passive that reduces the ulti cost in the same amout Akaviri Dragonguard (a 5 pieces set) does

Yeah, at this point bring in the Catalyst passive (20 ult on potion use), the Siphoning passive (every 4 seconds gain 2 extra ultimate), the Dawn's Wrath passive (3 ult every 6 seconds) and the Earthen Heart passive (3 ult every 6 seconds). All of these give roughly the same ultimate gain as the Powerstone passive.

Do you know the catalist passive can be used each 45 secs? Than you need 40 secs to get 20 ulti with siph passive? and that together they reach simiar numbers to the reduction provided by power stone if you are aiming for EOTS?

In other words, you need at least 45 secs of depleting your magicka pool and potion inventory to get what sorcs has granted...

Seriously, try harder

@Xvorg
Destro ultimate on a Sorc costs 213 ult. The only ultimate gain Sorcs have is the basic ultimate gain, aka Light, Heavy attacks and block, this is 3 ultimate every second for 9 seconds. From here its pretty easy to see that it will take a Sorc 71 seconds to get the Destro ult charged.

Destro ultimate on a NB costs 250 ult. With the standard ult gain and the siphoning passive, you have the standard ult gain + the extra 2 ult every 2 seconds. This is basically 4 ult per second. Which gives you 62.5 seconds to charge the Destro ult. And that's without the potions. So lets take into account the potions. Basically, you start with 0 ult and you drink your potion, that gives you 20 ult right off the bat, which basically takes the cost down to 230 ultimate. At this point, you'll take 57.5 seconds to get your destro ult, if you don't drink a second potion. If you do, then it will take you 52.5 seconds to charge a Destro ult if a Siphoning ability is cast every 2 seconds (not hard at all). So a NB will get a destro ultimate almost 20 seconds faster than a Sorc would. That's quite a large margin. Even if you don't use a siphing abilty every 2 seconds, you'll still get your ult faster than a sorc would.

So what were you saying? Try harder? I think that applies to you

Yes, mageblades using strife can build ulti in 62.5 secs, I acknowledge that. The other skills in that line are not going to help you to do it because:

1- Cripple is a dot that lasts 8 secs, so you can go on spamming it each 4 secs to get 2 ulti
2- Agony doesn't work on an enemy that broke CC
3- Casting and recasting siph strikes each 4 secs is idiotic
4- Drain power requires an enemy at 8 mts at least and is a so expensive skill that is prohibitive to spam it.

So, to build ulti in 62.5 secs you must:

1- Be a mageblade (stamblades are out of the equation)
2- Slot (and use) strife (the skill nerfed last patch, right?)

What's the word we use in this case? Something about pigeons and holes, do you remember?

If you are a mageblade aiming for DPS, you use force pulse instead of strife and you have to build all the way long from 0 to 250 ulti.

On the other hand, the sorc passive benefits any build, whether it's stam or magicka based. Then, who's on a better spot?

Please TRY HARDER!

Yeah, even without activating a Siphoning Ability AT ALL, you're still gaining ultimate at the same rate as a Sorc (2 potions = 40 ult, 15% cost reduction on Destro ult = 37 ult). But who are you kidding here? Magblades activate Siphoning abilities at least every 8 seconds for Cripple so lets say you're activating Siphoning attacks every 16 seconds too. That gives you an extra 6 ultimate every 16 seconds in total right? With 2 potions you're still gaining a destro ult after 62.2 sec. That's still almost 10 sec faster than a Sorc. Now if you don't have any sustain issues, and not using Siphoning Attacks at all, with just Cripple and Potions you're gaining a Destro ultimate in 64.6 seconds.
Since you were the one who started talking about DPS, then you should be using potions on cooldown for the Spell Damage and the Spell Crit buffs. So what's your point?

In AoE situations Sap Essense is the strongest magicka AoE in the game, so of course you're gonna spam it and at that point you'll have even higher ultimate gain. In every situation outside of trials, you're using Strife as your spammable, and at that point you are definitely gaining your Destro Ult faster than a Sorc. And don't forget Soul Harvest which just straight up 12 ultimate for anything you kill.

Also I have a question for you: why do you bring up stamblades when we are talking about destro ult? Running out of stupid arguments yet?
Well, as a matter of fact lets take a look at that too. For all ultimates cheaper than 150 ultimate, the Catalyst passive is better than the Power Stone passive. And as soon as the ultimate is expensive enough to be able to drink 2 potions (165 ult cost), Catalyst becomes better once again, all the way up until 250 ult where both passives even out once again. So the only time Power Stone is better than Catalyst is between 150 and 165 ult, and guess what? There are no ultimates between 150 and 165.
Well... Rend costs 150 ultimate so Catalyst = Power Stone. Dawnbreaker costs 125 so Catalyst > Power Stone. Ballista costs 175 ult so Catalyst > Power Stone. So for all stamina ultimates NB has a better ultimate gain than Sorcs.

I've heard stupid stuff, but saying that Power Stone is OP, is the stupidest thing I've heard to date on Sorcs. NBs have the best ultimate regen in the game and you're trying to argue against a fact established long ago. But my point was, every class have ultimate gain that is equal, with NBs being the exception. You can try harder still mate. But if you make false claims when there's simple math to prove you wrong, you're always going to lose. Please verify your statements before making them.

1- I have news for you. Siph strikes now is a 20 sec buff...
2- Sap essence is still a magicka AoE, Stam can't and won't use drain power as long as it is now.
3- Power stone benefits any kind of buld, Yes, I took the EoTS example because of it's cost, but I could have use any other skill. Lets say DBoS, who can build the ulti requirement faster, stamblade or stam sorc?
4- You can't say the catalyst passive is better than power stone passve under any point. Catalyst gives you 20 ulti each 45 secs, but you need to invest time gathering mats and making potions, or gold buying those potions. What's the price the sorc has to pay for power stone? Nothing, just a free passive.
5- Stupid things begin not assuming that sorcs are in the best spot than any other class in this game. Sorcs are affected by general changes as any other class, but heck! They haven't been touch in specific nerfs as temps, NBs and DKs have, so what's the impression non sorcs have about this?

And what's worst in this case is that you, sorcs consider other classes changes FAIR, elaborating complicated maths to stand your points. a 15% cost reduction in Uti is a very strong passive for the class with the stronger burst in this game. If you deny that then you are denying any of the arguments you used to raise the cost of Incap... or you forgot about that?

Mate. I main a stamblade. I never asked for Incap to have its cost raised. So stop your bullsh**. Don't believe me that I main a stamblade? You can check most threads on stamina DPS (specifically stamblade) and I can guarantee you I'm on most of them, advocating for buffs. Or you can go on my Xbox profile and find all those stamblade clips I have. My other main is a Sorc. I also play DK and Templar enough to understand the mechanics of the class and get Flawless on them. I'm not biased.

1. You gotta decide whether you're talking about now or next patch. Still all my calculations still stand.
2. I did elaborate on why stamblade has higher ultimate gain.
3. Cataylst benefits any kind of build. At this passive by itself is just as good as Power Stone, as my paragraph on stamina ults showed. Your statement about DBOS: Did you even read what I said? I'll copy it here again for you:

For all ultimates cheaper than 150 ultimate, the Catalyst passive is better than the Power Stone passive. And as soon as the ultimate is expensive enough to be able to drink 2 potions (165 ult cost), Catalyst becomes better once again, all the way up until 250 ult where both passives even out once again. So the only time Power Stone is better than Catalyst is between 150 and 165 ult, and guess what? There are no ultimates between 150 and 165.
Well... Rend costs 150 ultimate so Catalyst = Power Stone. Dawnbreaker costs 125 so Catalyst > Power Stone. Ballista costs 175 ult so Catalyst > Power Stone. So for all stamina ultimates NB has a better ultimate gain than Sorcs.

This part applies to all ultimates: So the only time Power Stone is better than Catalyst is between 150 and 165 ult
4. You're really going far to find problems with Catalyst. Why are you doing that? Its an amazingly strong passive, you can also build ultimate outside of a fight with it, something no one else can do. Also as I pointed out that Siphoning passive gives the same ultimate gain as Power Stone by itself. Sure it doesn't affect stamina builds as much as it affects magicka, but it is still there and can be taken advantage of even though its not optimal.
5. Stupid things begin when you don't play a class and assume its OP. Go onto the live server, and make your cost reduction and regen match the values on PTS, then go out into PvP. Also don't forget that next patch we have more total CP, so that increases costs as well. Mag Sorcs rely on reduced cost and regen much more than any other class. Stam Sorcs rely on constitution to be able to Dark Deal and on cost reduction to make sure they don't have to Dark Deal ALL the time. Sure Sorcs didn't receive any class specific nerfs, but they also relied much on class external mechanics to sustain.

The same argument you used against me can be used against you: you are whining about sorcs without doing any elaborated maths to prove your points.

Mutey

Malamar1229 wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Its really simple

Protection doesn't need to work against Shields.

Increase Shield Cost

Those two changes would fix a lot of issues.

And dont tell me sorcs are the most mobile when everone can spam a gap closer just as fast as we streak, and stam sorc just lol.

Except DK hasn't got one. If they use s&b and are magicka then using invasion costs a lot of stam. If they use leap, well it's their ult which they probably want to use for dmg not just to catch you.

And Templar charge could do as you say, except it still doesn't work properly, especially in the pop locked campaigns. So spamming it is a risk, if you get stuck in the animation you can't do anything so are dead. Kind of in the same way that Sorcs get stuck because streak also bugs.

So you're left with nb and ambush to chase you down.

It's ok tho, we've got used to chasing sorcs around with mist...

Xvorg

Do you use catalyst always?

What happens with catalyst once you have reached max ulti? Becomes useless.

Maths are just support of theory. In THEORY Catalyst is as strong as power stone. In practice:

1- We are talking about NBs, both types, magicka and stam. Power stone is a cost reduction for both, stam and magsorcs. If you want to elaborate about magblades, OK, they have a way to reach max ulti quite fast, but in very specific conditions.

2- You are not using potions each 45 secs. That's expensive. You use pots when you need them. Why would you use a res pot if you are full on res? Why woud you use a immo pot outside combat? Why would a NB use a invis pot?
To get ulti faster than a sorc you need to accomplish certain requirements that imply:
a) Using siph skills (thus barting magicka for ulti). Consider cripple is not a cheap skill.
b) Using pots (which in turn have a very long cooldown)

What are the sorcs requirements for building ulti?

3- See above. Power stone is always active. What happens if you miss the ulti after drinking a pot? 45 secs to use the passive again. Maybe if you are using an expensive ulti you can use the passive, but in the case of cheap ultis you are not going to take advantage of it. That 45 secs window means you are like any other class in the game that doesn't have the catalyst passive.

4- Is it stronk enough? Let me ask you this: if you have to choose outside of combat between a spammable weak skill and and stronk skill with a 4 secs cooldown, which one do you choose?

5- I do play sorc. I didn't knew about power stone until once I tried to use ballista and saw it was a 150 ulti skill, compared to the cost without reduction.

Vosital

Biro123 wrote: »

Shields have had 5 cumulative nerfs this patch. Please read and understand the patch notes.

lol then say them

FlyLionel

Sorcerers are the best class generally, why does that mean a nerf? I main a NB and all I wanted was for the other classes to get buffed alongside us, but the route zos has taken nerfing sustain and all that stuff while barely touching Sorcerer calls for a nerf. Personally I don't want them to touch Sorcerer; but just buff the other classes. Once you buff the other classes people will settle down. Buff or nerf?

Vaoh

I'm hearing that Magicka Sorcs are actually in trouble next patch - their PvE rotations are quite costly (especially with pet). With the new sustain issues, Magblades are doing very well compared to others despite how odd it sounds. In fact, Mag Sorcs may be the worst class on sustain next patch for PvE. This all directly affects DPS output.

Not sure how this applies to PvP. It might be that Sorcs have severe difficulties sustaining their shields (and they already do even with Lich). My guess is that Mag Sorcs will have bad damage if they want to continue to rapidly spam shields.

Can't say for sure though

The only thing I wish they'd do is change that Pirate Skeleton set. It's pretty obvious how broken it is imo.

Izaki

Xvorg wrote: »

Do you use catalyst always?

What happens with catalyst once you have reached max ulti? Becomes useless.

Maths are just support of theory. In THEORY Catalyst is as strong as power stone. In practice:

1- We are talking about NBs, both types, magicka and stam. Power stone is a cost reduction for both, stam and magsorcs. If you want to elaborate about magblades, OK, they have a way to reach max ulti quite fast, but in very specific conditions.

2- You are not using potions each 45 secs. That's expensive. You use pots when you need them. Why would you use a res pot if you are full on res? Why woud you use a immo pot outside combat? Why would a NB use a invis pot?
To get ulti faster than a sorc you need to accomplish certain requirements that imply:
a) Using siph skills (thus barting magicka for ulti). Consider cripple is not a cheap skill.
b) Using pots (which in turn have a very long cooldown)

What are the sorcs requirements for building ulti?

3- See above. Power stone is always active. What happens if you miss the ulti after drinking a pot? 45 secs to use the passive again. Maybe if you are using an expensive ulti you can use the passive, but in the case of cheap ultis you are not going to take advantage of it. That 45 secs window means you are like any other class in the game that doesn't have the catalyst passive.

4- Is it stronk enough? Let me ask you this: if you have to choose outside of combat between a spammable weak skill and and stronk skill with a 4 secs cooldown, which one do you choose?

5- I do play sorc. I didn't knew about power stone until once I tried to use ballista and saw it was a 150 ulti skill, compared to the cost without reduction.

Yeah, what happens with Power Stone once you reach max ulti? Becomes useless.

I've replied to all the points you've raised above more than once now and its getting boring. You seem set on your opinion that somehow Sorcs are the most godlike things in the game without any sort of restrictions. Keep doing that, just don't like as if it were fact, because you can't back it up with any strong arguments and simply because its not a fact.

Just going to reply to that metaphor thing of yours: for PvE I'd choose the weak spammable skill (Power Stone) and for PvP I'd choose the strong skill with a cooldown (Catalyst).

Izaki

Mutey wrote: »

Malamar1229 wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Its really simple

Protection doesn't need to work against Shields.

Increase Shield Cost

Those two changes would fix a lot of issues.

And dont tell me sorcs are the most mobile when everone can spam a gap closer just as fast as we streak, and stam sorc just lol.

Except DK hasn't got one. If they use s&b and are magicka then using invasion costs a lot of stam. If they use leap, well it's their ult which they probably want to use for dmg not just to catch you.

And Templar charge could do as you say, except it still doesn't work properly, especially in the pop locked campaigns. So spamming it is a risk, if you get stuck in the animation you can't do anything so are dead. Kind of in the same way that Sorcs get stuck because streak also bugs.

So you're left with nb and ambush to chase you down.

It's ok tho, we've got used to chasing sorcs around with mist...

Just snare them... Streak is good, but it doesn't outplay snares.

SirMewser

Just going to post this here because of all the false positives in this thread, I do not want to regurgitate and have it get lost as this thread would likely continue to be idiotic.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/337327/patch-v3-0-0-analyzed-originally-about-sorcs-shield#latest

Xvorg

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

Do you use catalyst always?

What happens with catalyst once you have reached max ulti? Becomes useless.

Maths are just support of theory. In THEORY Catalyst is as strong as power stone. In practice:

1- We are talking about NBs, both types, magicka and stam. Power stone is a cost reduction for both, stam and magsorcs. If you want to elaborate about magblades, OK, they have a way to reach max ulti quite fast, but in very specific conditions.

2- You are not using potions each 45 secs. That's expensive. You use pots when you need them. Why would you use a res pot if you are full on res? Why woud you use a immo pot outside combat? Why would a NB use a invis pot?
To get ulti faster than a sorc you need to accomplish certain requirements that imply:
a) Using siph skills (thus barting magicka for ulti). Consider cripple is not a cheap skill.
b) Using pots (which in turn have a very long cooldown)

What are the sorcs requirements for building ulti?

3- See above. Power stone is always active. What happens if you miss the ulti after drinking a pot? 45 secs to use the passive again. Maybe if you are using an expensive ulti you can use the passive, but in the case of cheap ultis you are not going to take advantage of it. That 45 secs window means you are like any other class in the game that doesn't have the catalyst passive.

4- Is it stronk enough? Let me ask you this: if you have to choose outside of combat between a spammable weak skill and and stronk skill with a 4 secs cooldown, which one do you choose?

5- I do play sorc. I didn't knew about power stone until once I tried to use ballista and saw it was a 150 ulti skill, compared to the cost without reduction.

Yeah, what happens with Power Stone once you reach max ulti? Becomes useless.

I've replied to all the points you've raised above more than once now and its getting boring. You seem set on your opinion that somehow Sorcs are the most godlike things in the game without any sort of restrictions. Keep doing that, just don't like as if it were fact, because you can't back it up with any strong arguments and simply because its not a fact.

Just going to reply to that metaphor thing of yours: for PvE I'd choose the weak spammable skill (Power Stone) and for PvP I'd choose the strong skill with a cooldown (Catalyst).

By no mean I say sorcs are godlike in this game. I say they are the easiest class to play which has suffered less than any other class the power of the nerf hammer.

Especially this patch. NBs Tems and DKs are complaining about their specific nerfs. What do you think about sorcs not being touched? Is there any explanation for that behaviour?

So, if 3 out of 4 classes are specifically nerfed in their passive skills, ins't almost the same than a buff to the class not nerfed? Because the 0.2 secs cooldown in dark exchange is a bad joke.

And sorcs main complaint is that their shields are gonna be (a little) moar expensive? Sorry, I don't buy that. None of the sorcs passive was even touched.

There's no reason to run Dks, temps or NBs after the patch notes. People is f*ing tired of respeccing after each patch.

Vosital

Hutch679 wrote: »

Don't buy Morrowind

I was really looking forward to BGs, but it seems that it's just going to be a Sorc dominated mess.

Stamden

Magıc wrote: »

Neighbor wrote: »

@Magıc

Fine, keep them as non-crittable. But then they need to:

-Remove Bastion CP
-Remove Pirate Skeleton
-Increase cost for consecutive shield casts
-Remove the ability to stack Harness + other shields
-Reduce the magika received from Harness
-Add debuffs that reduce the effectiveness of shields

Honestly, the fact that shields can't be critted causes so much problems though. It just allows Sorcs to go full offense while every other class has to spec for impen. That just makes the damage Sorcs can do that much more ridiculous.

@Neighbor

-Bastion CP I'm not sure. Shields are fairly weak in Azura for example, especially vs proc sets and with proc sets about to enter the CP meta again due to the sustain changes, I'm hesistant. Nerf it? Sure. I maybe should have been reduced to 15% instead of staying at 25%.
-Pirate I agree
-Increase cost for consecutive shield casts I disagree on. Why? Because if you've seen a Sorc without shields down, they can literally get killed within 2 or 3 seconds from full health, 1 second from full health by stam warden currently on PTS (stam warden is actually disgusting in duels, not sure about open world). However this links heavily with harness/dampen. They shouldn't stack. One of the best sorcs in EU (Derra) plays with only hardened as do many others. If they're forced to take damage just to sustain that's completely game breaking for sorcs.
-As I said, harness/dampen shouldn't stack with hardened, links with the previous point.
-Reduce it I agree. I gain magicka from casting harness lol...
-Debuffs to shields? Not sure at the moment. Same as the bastion CP point. They aren't going to be very strong vs proc sets when they return to the meta so having debuffs on them as well will only kill them off and kill off sorc as a class. If proc sets weren't a thing you could maybe argue for this/bastion CP changes.

Sorcs aren't 'godlike' right now except vs Stamblades imo. Also, ask the top sorcs whether they run impen on their gear or divines/other traits. Almost every sorc runs impen (I personally run a mixture of impen/infused/well fitted) even with shields because one mistake can literally cost your life as a sorc. On a stamdk for example you can make mistake after mistake after mistake for 10 minutes straight and not die.

I'm not a mag sorc main either. I'm a stamDK main and forever will be (#stamDKlivesmatter). But I've played enough of it, observed and played with and fought some of the best sorcs in EU to know the class quite well.

At least you're more reasonable than 90% of the Sorc players on here that are completely delusional about how broken their class is.

So what we can agree on is: Bastion Nerf to 15% or removed entirely, Pirate Skeleton changed in a way that doesn't work with shields, Harness doesn't stack, Harness magika return nerf

I really don't think that is enough, but it would be a start I suppose. Mag Sorcs would still be the best PvP class significantly, but maybe in conjuction with nerfs to actual Sorc skills/passives they could be brought down to a reasonable level.