Sorcs and Favoritism

Edziu

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

sorceresr never got big nerf like other classes, example: magdk since game start was godmode, then nerf to the ground and unplayalbe for over year, templar have buff an nerf but big nerfs very hurting like now stamplar is unplayable in vpe since few months and now more unplayable, nb similiar, once was good and then now until now and nb is stil worst class for dps while sorc was damn never that down with nerf like other classes and this is balance? while very other class was up and at the bottom sorc was never at bottom, only as average or on top

Because Sorc was never over the top. It was always average and sometimes almost on top.

yeah, he was never on bottom and was sometime on top and mostly just as average while every other class was for few patches on bottom, as I wrote, mag dk was unplayabe over year, nb was good at 1 patch and now what? now we have nb who is from last few patches on bottom in every espect in pve, mayb vMA can be exception but its doesnt matter as for solo pve and we have stamplar who whill struggle more in pve than in last few patches like nb but stamplar is more unplayabe.

I have seen how sorc awlays always was playable on on not bad spot if not on very good spot while very other class had their time with struggle to just play in anything, sorc had never this problem

So what? Doesn't that mean that the class is balanced? I'm pretty sure that that's the exact definition of balance.

so question now why all other 3 classes are going to be unbalanced more? like now if sorc is balanced and he is on top in pve and one of the best choices for pvp with damage, sustain, survivability and mobility then why other classes are getting rekt more?

dkwas standing in place tank tanking everything etc and still able to kill someone but no mobility, now nerf to his sustain how he wont wills tay alive more then few mins also in just 1v1 and he have no mobility to at all run away like sorc

templar similiar to dk but he is just healing more and his healing with also sustain is getting nerfed, no mobility

nb? nb stealth attacks nerf, nb is based on stealth and outside stelth I can count all players from 1 server on my both hand who can play efficient on nb without stealth, now nb also with his sustain is getting rekt like dk and templar

sorc? no changes, no anything, thank nerf to rest 3 classes he is buffed in overall and he will be now bigger king of pve and of pvp also, still the best mobility, no nerfs to his classs sustain, survivability, damage, no anything

and warden? warden was not bad before, templar was to be still the best healer like dk still the best tank but now after nerfs I see how warden will be the best healer, support and maybe tank? because he shoulnt have resource managament problem like dk now

Dracane

Completely disagree with everything from OP.
I kill mag Sorcs easier than anything. I think they are the easiest to counter, easiest to burst down and least threatening overall. And Sorcs were waiting for buffsa very long time, we were left in the cold for a very long time until we received (mostly indirect) buffs that everyone can profit from.

Sorcs rarely received anything personal besides nerfs. The only true buffs we have received were pet buffs, that most people don't even want to use. Sorcerer has remained almost untouched since so many updates and most people I encounter know just exactly how to deal with streak and shields in general. You really should calm down.

sly007

I disagree with op. Like others have said, the changes to sustain affect sorcerers just as much the other classes. Why don't you get on pts and check how indefinitely magic sorcerer can spam abilities.

Izaki

sly007 wrote: »

I disagree with op. Like others have said, the changes to sustain affect sorcerers just as much the other classes. Why don't you get on pts and check how indefinitely magic sorcerer can spam abilities.

Anyone can spam abilities indefinitely. See how many shield stacks you can do.

thankyourat

When wrobel said some classes are just better than others I'm pretty sure he was referring to the sorcerer class

Apherius

Vosital wrote: »

Every single patch, we expect some kind of nerfs or adjustments to the overtuned class that is the Sorcerer in this game. Yet every single time, they get the best of the patch notes. The gap between Mag Sorcs and everybody else just gets more and more ridiculous every time.

Take last patch for example. Mag Sorcs were god tier in PvP and PvE. What happened? A raw 8% damage increase and a better Haunting Curse.

This patch? Almost every aspect of the game is getting toned down and nerfed, except Sorcs and shields.

There is a major problem in this game when a full light armor Sorc in Lich can spam shield indefinitely and be harder to kill than any kind of heavy armor tank. There is no reason to play anything else in PvP. You do the most damage, are the most mobile, and are the hardest to kill. In PvE you outparse everyone by a huge margin.

We get it Zenimax, this class is your favorite and they need to be vastly superior to every other class in the game in every aspect of the game. But this is just getting ridiculous. It is so unprofessional for this kind of ridiculous favoritism to exist by a major company.

You forgot the patch where we got the nerf of bolt escape , the impossibility to use bolt escape more than 6 times without be oom .
the patch where we got the nerf of Shields ( shield divided by 2 in PVP )
the patch where we got an other nerf of shiels ( duration of shields divided by 3 in PVE / PVP )
the patch where we got the nerf of the ultimate cap ( yeah = dead of Overload build in PVE )
the patch where the got the nerf of the negat ( the sorcerer was the worst class in raid because he was only accepte in raid for the negat )

Now , with this patch ,there will be a sustain nerf ... and a sorcerer without mana = a sorcerer without shield = a dead sorcerer .

But of course there is a lot of favoritisme , this is why they nerfed the Hurricane of stam sorcerer .

Dracane

Apherius wrote: »

Vosital wrote: »

Every single patch, we expect some kind of nerfs or adjustments to the overtuned class that is the Sorcerer in this game. Yet every single time, they get the best of the patch notes. The gap between Mag Sorcs and everybody else just gets more and more ridiculous every time.

Take last patch for example. Mag Sorcs were god tier in PvP and PvE. What happened? A raw 8% damage increase and a better Haunting Curse.

This patch? Almost every aspect of the game is getting toned down and nerfed, except Sorcs and shields.

There is a major problem in this game when a full light armor Sorc in Lich can spam shield indefinitely and be harder to kill than any kind of heavy armor tank. There is no reason to play anything else in PvP. You do the most damage, are the most mobile, and are the hardest to kill. In PvE you outparse everyone by a huge margin.

We get it Zenimax, this class is your favorite and they need to be vastly superior to every other class in the game in every aspect of the game. But this is just getting ridiculous. It is so unprofessional for this kind of ridiculous favoritism to exist by a major company.

You forgot the patch where we got the nerf of bolt escape , the impossibility to use bolt escape more than 6 times without be oom .
the patch where we got the nerf of Shields ( shield divided by 2 in PVP )
the patch where we got an other nerf of shiels ( duration of shields divided by 3 in PVE / PVP )
the patch where we got the nerf of the ultimate cap ( yeah = dead of Overload build in PVE )
the patch where the got the nerf of the negat ( the sorcerer was the worst class in raid because he was only accepte in raid for the negat )

Now , with this patch ,there will be a sustain nerf ... and a sorcerer without mana = a sorcerer without shield = a dead sorcerer .

But of course there is a lot of favoritisme , this is why they nerfed the Hurricane of stam sorcerer .

Exactly. Sorcerer suffers from these changes just the same.
Some things on other classes were nerfed to nerf their passive sustain. But you all forget, that all classes but Sorcs have indirect ressource restorations, Sorcerers don't. They need a 1 second channel in order to restore ressources, while other classes get ressources back by doing regular stuff or simply using their abilities> 0 effort required. Dks get ressources by using ults, activating earthern heart abilities. Nightblades get them from simply doing light attacks and templars have rune focus.

rfennell_ESO

Vosital wrote: »

We get it Zenimax, this class is your favorite and they need to be vastly superior to every other class in the game in every aspect of the game. But this is just getting ridiculous. It is so unprofessional for this kind of ridiculous favoritism to exist by a major company.

Sorcs weren't always top of the heap (or close to it) nor were they always one of the top pvp classes.

There was a point where sorcs were useless in pve and marginally below average in pvp.

Now, I think power creep has benefited them about the most. Changes aren't remotely "done" with this being merely the first patch of at least 5 (gotta figure that much).

Tasear

Edziu wrote: »

sorceresr never got big nerf like other classes, example: magdk since game start was godmode, then nerf to the ground and unplayalbe for over year, templar have buff an nerf but big nerfs very hurting like now stamplar is unplayable in vpe since few months and now more unplayable, nb similiar, once was good and then now until now and nb is stil worst class for dps while sorc was damn never that down with nerf like other classes and this is balance? while very other class was up and at the bottom sorc was never at bottom, only as average or on top

Streak was nerfed

They will feel the burn of course changes the most.

Edziu

Tasear wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

sorceresr never got big nerf like other classes, example: magdk since game start was godmode, then nerf to the ground and unplayalbe for over year, templar have buff an nerf but big nerfs very hurting like now stamplar is unplayable in vpe since few months and now more unplayable, nb similiar, once was good and then now until now and nb is stil worst class for dps while sorc was damn never that down with nerf like other classes and this is balance? while very other class was up and at the bottom sorc was never at bottom, only as average or on top

Streak was nerfed

They will feel the burn of course changes the most.

only streak truly nerfed huh? maybe few patches ago but what now?
did the got nerf to their main sustain? did they got nerf to their main defense and survivability? did they got nerf to their most important class skills? no

sorceres now didng get any nerf like dk now is *** with sustain, templar *** with healing and how nb was *** with dps in pve and open fights in pvp he is now *** more because ZO$ took his only unique in compare to other classes - sustain from siphoning attacks to very long fights whiel dealing damage

sorc still have everything what he have now, only thing when he can suffer is nerf in cp but templar, dk and nb will feel nerf 2-4x more than sorc because class skills nerf

Magıc

People who cry about sorcs shields make me laugh.

These cost increase changes will hurt sorc too. Sustaining on sorc is going to be hard too (dark deal/conversion need to be nerfed, but at the same time, players with even a few brain cells know that they need to bash socs).

Hexys and I calculated that to make streak cost the same on PTS as they do on live currently (as a non breton) you have to race change to breton as well as stick 3 cost reduction glyphs on. That means you lose 700ish SD. And all the good sorcs will tell you that they judge their sustain/skill cost based on streak cost.

Xvorg

Magıc wrote: »

People who cry about sorcs shields make me laugh.

These cost increase changes will hurt sorc too. Sustaining on sorc is going to be hard too (dark deal/conversion need to be nerfed, but at the same time, players with even a few brain cells know that they need to bash socs).

Hexys and I calculated that to make streak cost the same on PTS as they do on live currently (as a non breton) you have to race change to breton as well as stick 3 cost reduction glyphs on. That means you lose 700ish SD. And all the good sorcs will tell you that they judge their sustain/skill cost based on streak cost.

what is 700 SD for a class that increases it by sloting class skills and has access to major sorcery through a class skill?

Mageblades, Mageplars and mDKs are going to have the same problem, but they don't have that passive, so each point they put into cost reduction/magicka recobvery is going to affect them twice.

Hutch679

Ashnunn wrote: »

Shields will cost more - moving points over to regen will take away from max magicka = reduced shield size.

Shield spamming, while still possible, will be much harder

Moving what points over to regen? This doesn't make sense to me.

Stamden

So many of you are missing the point. It's not about "the cost increase changes hurt Sorcs too". Sorcs were already by far the best class in the game when it comes to PvP and could easily outparse anyone in DPS. They need serious nerfs to Sorc passives and abilities, as well as completely reworking shields.

Not only did they not nerf Sorcs, but shields were the one thing that didn't get touched at all. Comparatively, shields are even stronger then they were pre-patch. You still can't crit shields, Harness still gives back way too much magika, Pirate Skeleton is still broken with shields, Bastion didn't get changed..

So while every other class is taking a huge hit in every department, the strongest class in the game is going mostly untouched. This makes them comparatively even better then where they were pre-Morrowind.

Aedaryl

Xvorg wrote: »

Magıc wrote: »

People who cry about sorcs shields make me laugh.

These cost increase changes will hurt sorc too. Sustaining on sorc is going to be hard too (dark deal/conversion need to be nerfed, but at the same time, players with even a few brain cells know that they need to bash socs).

Hexys and I calculated that to make streak cost the same on PTS as they do on live currently (as a non breton) you have to race change to breton as well as stick 3 cost reduction glyphs on. That means you lose 700ish SD. And all the good sorcs will tell you that they judge their sustain/skill cost based on streak cost.

what is 700 SD for a class that increases it by sloting class skills and has access to major sorcery through a class skill?

Mageblades, Mageplars and mDKs are going to have the same problem, but they don't have that passive, so each point they put into cost reduction/magicka recobvery is going to affect them twice.

The passive give 2% more spell damage by sorc skill in bar => About 8% more spell damage.

Mageblade have major sorcery in class skill "sap essence" , dk have it too "Molten weapons" and also, everyone have can have it by mage guild, and can have a dot + 2% more magicka + 2% more magicka regen + empowerded your next attack (+25%) by using it.

700% spell damage lost is insane, just think Alchemist set in not even at that number.

This proove your lack of knowledge in the game, and show you are just here to complain because sorcs kill you.

grim_tactics

Cyrisus wrote: »

grim_tactics wrote: »

Not going to read all the pages but I will agree with a post I saw on the first page.

I get the feeling everyone saying Sorcs are god mode/easy mode haven't played one.

Shield stacking doesn't do a thing when you have someone with good burst rotation beating on you the whole time. More than 1 person attacking you and all you are doing is surviving while doing 0 damage to them.

Smart players know how to make Infernal Guardian essentially do nothing so - yeah - I could spam shields but I'm gonna die anyway.

Now factor in the new CP structure and the amount a shield can do is greatly reduced.

Sorcs can point the finger the other way.

NB right now has great burst and for whatever reason you can still stun/root from stealth attacks.

Templars can go from no health to 100% very easily while also doing good damage.

And some DK builds can sustain forever in 1v1 and at times 1vX.

Don't let the fact that the top 1% of PvP players that use a Sorc insanely good represent the whole class as OP. The same could be said of every top player in each class.

I agree these nerfs look like garbage on paper and a lot of you have a reason to be mad - but I can almost promise if this went live today that you would see Sorcs melt easier than they do now without being able to spam all the shields in the current meta.

I would go as far to say that with the CP tree listed in this PTS patch if I tried casting all 3 shields I would have 0 magicka left and it would only last for 6 seconds which afterward would mean I couldn't cast anything when they ran out.

Sorcs are by far one of the easiest classes to play with extremely high reward on the current patch so saying that only the 1% are making the class look really strong is as far from the truth as you will get. Shieldstacking is a big reason why most of the really stupid, 0 counterplay builds work (Petsorcs, Pirate Skeleton, etc.). I believe shieldstacking does everything if you know how to play it properly. When stacked correctly they prevent any sort of burst while also keeping up tempo. You only lose if you're a lot worse than your opponent. However, if you're equally skilled they won't have a chance at beating you while you just faceroll your keyboard and watch them die. Assuming equal skill level I don't think there's a single matchup where a sorc straight up loses. In a worst case scenario they will go even.

P.S: Infernal Guardian hasn't been viable for a long time now so using it as a foundation makes no sense. Any decent player would just slot Pirate Skeleton instead and be unkillable.

My point is that the counter play against Sorcs exists and they are nowhere near OP.

I run Pirate Skeleton and I'll agree it's ridiculous.

However, saying using shields "properly" you can keep up tempo I don't agree with.

Stacking shields against burst means you are doing 0 damage - again - and wasting resources.

Doing it to sustain against a Zerg while streaking - yes that's a little funny - and I can get away most of the time.

I just don't agree with Sorcs being OP at all.

It's impossible to have 100% shield uptime and with this new patch will not happen. It costs too much to constantly keep casting hoping you out sustain someone else's burst and resource pool. It can happen but, come on, we are talking about 6 seconds.

I understand the points and I'm not saying there's no need for changes.

I'm all for reducing cast or increasing duration IF they don't allow stacking.

Or just make it where they can be critically hit. I'm fine with that too, but without shields Sorcs aren't viable at all for any play style in PvP.

KingJ

grim_tactics wrote: »

Cyrisus wrote: »

grim_tactics wrote: »

Not going to read all the pages but I will agree with a post I saw on the first page.

I get the feeling everyone saying Sorcs are god mode/easy mode haven't played one.

Shield stacking doesn't do a thing when you have someone with good burst rotation beating on you the whole time. More than 1 person attacking you and all you are doing is surviving while doing 0 damage to them.

Smart players know how to make Infernal Guardian essentially do nothing so - yeah - I could spam shields but I'm gonna die anyway.

Now factor in the new CP structure and the amount a shield can do is greatly reduced.

Sorcs can point the finger the other way.

NB right now has great burst and for whatever reason you can still stun/root from stealth attacks.

Templars can go from no health to 100% very easily while also doing good damage.

And some DK builds can sustain forever in 1v1 and at times 1vX.

Don't let the fact that the top 1% of PvP players that use a Sorc insanely good represent the whole class as OP. The same could be said of every top player in each class.

I agree these nerfs look like garbage on paper and a lot of you have a reason to be mad - but I can almost promise if this went live today that you would see Sorcs melt easier than they do now without being able to spam all the shields in the current meta.

I would go as far to say that with the CP tree listed in this PTS patch if I tried casting all 3 shields I would have 0 magicka left and it would only last for 6 seconds which afterward would mean I couldn't cast anything when they ran out.

Sorcs are by far one of the easiest classes to play with extremely high reward on the current patch so saying that only the 1% are making the class look really strong is as far from the truth as you will get. Shieldstacking is a big reason why most of the really stupid, 0 counterplay builds work (Petsorcs, Pirate Skeleton, etc.). I believe shieldstacking does everything if you know how to play it properly. When stacked correctly they prevent any sort of burst while also keeping up tempo. You only lose if you're a lot worse than your opponent. However, if you're equally skilled they won't have a chance at beating you while you just faceroll your keyboard and watch them die. Assuming equal skill level I don't think there's a single matchup where a sorc straight up loses. In a worst case scenario they will go even.

P.S: Infernal Guardian hasn't been viable for a long time now so using it as a foundation makes no sense. Any decent player would just slot Pirate Skeleton instead and be unkillable.

My point is that the counter play against Sorcs exists and they are nowhere near OP.

I run Pirate Skeleton and I'll agree it's ridiculous.

However, saying using shields "properly" you can keep up tempo I don't agree with.

Stacking shields against burst means you are doing 0 damage - again - and wasting resources.

Doing it to sustain against a Zerg while streaking - yes that's a little funny - and I can get away most of the time.

I just don't agree with Sorcs being OP at all.

It's impossible to have 100% shield uptime and with this new patch will not happen. It costs too much to constantly keep casting hoping you out sustain someone else's burst and resource pool. It can happen but, come on, we are talking about 6 seconds.

I understand the points and I'm not saying there's no need for changes.

I'm all for reducing cast or increasing duration IF they don't allow stacking.

Or just make it where they can be critically hit. I'm fine with that too, but without shields Sorcs aren't viable at all for any play style in PvP.

Sounds to me you are just a bad sorc.

Edziu

Aedaryl wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

Magıc wrote: »

People who cry about sorcs shields make me laugh.

These cost increase changes will hurt sorc too. Sustaining on sorc is going to be hard too (dark deal/conversion need to be nerfed, but at the same time, players with even a few brain cells know that they need to bash socs).

Hexys and I calculated that to make streak cost the same on PTS as they do on live currently (as a non breton) you have to race change to breton as well as stick 3 cost reduction glyphs on. That means you lose 700ish SD. And all the good sorcs will tell you that they judge their sustain/skill cost based on streak cost.

what is 700 SD for a class that increases it by sloting class skills and has access to major sorcery through a class skill?

Mageblades, Mageplars and mDKs are going to have the same problem, but they don't have that passive, so each point they put into cost reduction/magicka recobvery is going to affect them twice.

The passive give 2% more spell damage by sorc skill in bar => About 8% more spell damage.

Mageblade have major sorcery in class skill "sap essence" , dk have it too "Molten weapons" and also, everyone have can have it by mage guild, and can have a dot + 2% more magicka + 2% more magicka regen + empowerded your next attack (+25%) by using it.

700% spell damage lost is insane, just think Alchemist set in not even at that number.

This proove your lack of knowledge in the game, and show you are just here to complain because sorcs kill you.

you forgod about surge from sorcs which is gicing also 20% to your spell damage for 30+ sec and it giving you heals when you will hit with crit to your opponent while magblade sap essence need to hit your target in melee and lasts only 20 seconds and mag dk molten armaments are giving also just 20% to spell dmg for 39 seconds and givinf more damage to your heavy attacks.

so magblade sap essence you can take off from comparing to this whiel you forgetting about your on of the best class skill buffs

grim_tactics

KingJ wrote: »

grim_tactics wrote: »

Cyrisus wrote: »

grim_tactics wrote: »

Not going to read all the pages but I will agree with a post I saw on the first page.

I get the feeling everyone saying Sorcs are god mode/easy mode haven't played one.

Shield stacking doesn't do a thing when you have someone with good burst rotation beating on you the whole time. More than 1 person attacking you and all you are doing is surviving while doing 0 damage to them.

Smart players know how to make Infernal Guardian essentially do nothing so - yeah - I could spam shields but I'm gonna die anyway.

Now factor in the new CP structure and the amount a shield can do is greatly reduced.

Sorcs can point the finger the other way.

NB right now has great burst and for whatever reason you can still stun/root from stealth attacks.

Templars can go from no health to 100% very easily while also doing good damage.

And some DK builds can sustain forever in 1v1 and at times 1vX.

Don't let the fact that the top 1% of PvP players that use a Sorc insanely good represent the whole class as OP. The same could be said of every top player in each class.

I agree these nerfs look like garbage on paper and a lot of you have a reason to be mad - but I can almost promise if this went live today that you would see Sorcs melt easier than they do now without being able to spam all the shields in the current meta.

I would go as far to say that with the CP tree listed in this PTS patch if I tried casting all 3 shields I would have 0 magicka left and it would only last for 6 seconds which afterward would mean I couldn't cast anything when they ran out.

Sorcs are by far one of the easiest classes to play with extremely high reward on the current patch so saying that only the 1% are making the class look really strong is as far from the truth as you will get. Shieldstacking is a big reason why most of the really stupid, 0 counterplay builds work (Petsorcs, Pirate Skeleton, etc.). I believe shieldstacking does everything if you know how to play it properly. When stacked correctly they prevent any sort of burst while also keeping up tempo. You only lose if you're a lot worse than your opponent. However, if you're equally skilled they won't have a chance at beating you while you just faceroll your keyboard and watch them die. Assuming equal skill level I don't think there's a single matchup where a sorc straight up loses. In a worst case scenario they will go even.

P.S: Infernal Guardian hasn't been viable for a long time now so using it as a foundation makes no sense. Any decent player would just slot Pirate Skeleton instead and be unkillable.

My point is that the counter play against Sorcs exists and they are nowhere near OP.

I run Pirate Skeleton and I'll agree it's ridiculous.

However, saying using shields "properly" you can keep up tempo I don't agree with.

Stacking shields against burst means you are doing 0 damage - again - and wasting resources.

Doing it to sustain against a Zerg while streaking - yes that's a little funny - and I can get away most of the time.

I just don't agree with Sorcs being OP at all.

It's impossible to have 100% shield uptime and with this new patch will not happen. It costs too much to constantly keep casting hoping you out sustain someone else's burst and resource pool. It can happen but, come on, we are talking about 6 seconds.

I understand the points and I'm not saying there's no need for changes.

I'm all for reducing cast or increasing duration IF they don't allow stacking.

Or just make it where they can be critically hit. I'm fine with that too, but without shields Sorcs aren't viable at all for any play style in PvP.

Sounds to me you are just a bad sorc.

Or maybe you're just bad and don't know how to counter?

Aedaryl

Edziu wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

Magıc wrote: »

People who cry about sorcs shields make me laugh.

These cost increase changes will hurt sorc too. Sustaining on sorc is going to be hard too (dark deal/conversion need to be nerfed, but at the same time, players with even a few brain cells know that they need to bash socs).

Hexys and I calculated that to make streak cost the same on PTS as they do on live currently (as a non breton) you have to race change to breton as well as stick 3 cost reduction glyphs on. That means you lose 700ish SD. And all the good sorcs will tell you that they judge their sustain/skill cost based on streak cost.

what is 700 SD for a class that increases it by sloting class skills and has access to major sorcery through a class skill?

Mageblades, Mageplars and mDKs are going to have the same problem, but they don't have that passive, so each point they put into cost reduction/magicka recobvery is going to affect them twice.

The passive give 2% more spell damage by sorc skill in bar => About 8% more spell damage.

Mageblade have major sorcery in class skill "sap essence" , dk have it too "Molten weapons" and also, everyone have can have it by mage guild, and can have a dot + 2% more magicka + 2% more magicka regen + empowerded your next attack (+25%) by using it.

700% spell damage lost is insane, just think Alchemist set in not even at that number.

This proove your lack of knowledge in the game, and show you are just here to complain because sorcs kill you.

you forgod about surge from sorcs which is gicing also 20% to your spell damage for 30+ sec and it giving you heals when you will hit with crit to your opponent while magblade sap essence need to hit your target in melee and lasts only 20 seconds and mag dk molten armaments are giving also just 20% to spell dmg for 39 seconds and givinf more damage to your heavy attacks.

so magblade sap essence you can take off from comparing to this whiel you forgetting about your on of the best class skill buffs

Surge, the best magicka class skill ? In PvP, Most of sorc don't even use it, wake up guy. Entropy is better it give you health on light attacks and since sorc have shield to restore HP, there is no reason to slot surge over 2% more magicka, 2% more regen, damage and Empowered buff.

Cyrisus

grim_tactics wrote: »

Cyrisus wrote: »

grim_tactics wrote: »

Not going to read all the pages but I will agree with a post I saw on the first page.

I get the feeling everyone saying Sorcs are god mode/easy mode haven't played one.

Shield stacking doesn't do a thing when you have someone with good burst rotation beating on you the whole time. More than 1 person attacking you and all you are doing is surviving while doing 0 damage to them.

Smart players know how to make Infernal Guardian essentially do nothing so - yeah - I could spam shields but I'm gonna die anyway.

Now factor in the new CP structure and the amount a shield can do is greatly reduced.

Sorcs can point the finger the other way.

NB right now has great burst and for whatever reason you can still stun/root from stealth attacks.

Templars can go from no health to 100% very easily while also doing good damage.

And some DK builds can sustain forever in 1v1 and at times 1vX.

Don't let the fact that the top 1% of PvP players that use a Sorc insanely good represent the whole class as OP. The same could be said of every top player in each class.

I agree these nerfs look like garbage on paper and a lot of you have a reason to be mad - but I can almost promise if this went live today that you would see Sorcs melt easier than they do now without being able to spam all the shields in the current meta.

I would go as far to say that with the CP tree listed in this PTS patch if I tried casting all 3 shields I would have 0 magicka left and it would only last for 6 seconds which afterward would mean I couldn't cast anything when they ran out.

Sorcs are by far one of the easiest classes to play with extremely high reward on the current patch so saying that only the 1% are making the class look really strong is as far from the truth as you will get. Shieldstacking is a big reason why most of the really stupid, 0 counterplay builds work (Petsorcs, Pirate Skeleton, etc.). I believe shieldstacking does everything if you know how to play it properly. When stacked correctly they prevent any sort of burst while also keeping up tempo. You only lose if you're a lot worse than your opponent. However, if you're equally skilled they won't have a chance at beating you while you just faceroll your keyboard and watch them die. Assuming equal skill level I don't think there's a single matchup where a sorc straight up loses. In a worst case scenario they will go even.

P.S: Infernal Guardian hasn't been viable for a long time now so using it as a foundation makes no sense. Any decent player would just slot Pirate Skeleton instead and be unkillable.

My point is that the counter play against Sorcs exists and they are nowhere near OP.

I run Pirate Skeleton and I'll agree it's ridiculous.

However, saying using shields "properly" you can keep up tempo I don't agree with.

Stacking shields against burst means you are doing 0 damage - again - and wasting resources.

Doing it to sustain against a Zerg while streaking - yes that's a little funny - and I can get away most of the time.

I just don't agree with Sorcs being OP at all.

It's impossible to have 100% shield uptime and with this new patch will not happen. It costs too much to constantly keep casting hoping you out sustain someone else's burst and resource pool. It can happen but, come on, we are talking about 6 seconds.

I understand the points and I'm not saying there's no need for changes.

I'm all for reducing cast or increasing duration IF they don't allow stacking.

Or just make it where they can be critically hit. I'm fine with that too, but without shields Sorcs aren't viable at all for any play style in PvP.

The whole point of burst is to kill you quickly, no class can burst nonstop. If you survive burst in a lot of cases you just win outright, if you know what you're doing.

Weps

What makes me laugh is Sorcs people complaining about this patch.
Really. If you're saying you're hit the most you need to learn how to play your own class.
I agree with whoever said that stamsorcs are the poster child of abused CPs and sustain problems and I have to add even Magsorcs and their infinite streaking, shield stacking and whatever other freaking features they have.

Again, you fooled the whole community once with that Haunting Curse Homestead PTS 1 "nerf", QQing so much about how you could not put enough pressure on enemy players in PvP, that eventually turned into the greatest buff of recent patches.
Is basically this class that makes it impossible to go around with light and medium armor even in CP campaigns, because sneaky nightblades have counters meanwhile 2 sorcs in the same group will nuke you down from 20 metres away before you could even begin to put pressure on them. Even with heavy armor.

This class has the most effective shield stacking of the game, with Hardened Ward (basically the strongest pure damage shield out there and could easily skyrocket your mitigation to 20k plus in PVP ) that can be stacked on top of Harness Magicka that will basically erase his cost while protecting your butt.
They have Crit Surge who can basically keep them healed while they're murdering you from 20mt away.
They have the Blood Magic passive that will restore you 8% more Health when you cast a Dark Magic ability.
So with a Dark Conversion and a 8k plus C-Frag they will be at full health and full magicka with just 2431 stamina and 4050 magicka. Dark Conversion, of course, untouched by this patch.
They have Unholy Knowledge passive that reduces the cost of magicka and stamina abilities by A LOT and it's the only passive of this kind which remains UNTOUCHED BY THIS PATCH.
They have Capacitator who increases your Magicka Recovery by 10%. Again, untouched by this patch.
They have skills and passives that can increase their max Magicka, Health, Magicka return. And all those skills can also stack Weapon and Spell damage on top of the passive that buffs Physical and Shock Damage that, drum roll please, is helpful to proc their class defyning ability: a second execution. A passive execution.
They have the mobility, the powerful damaging monster set that synergizes so damn well with their shield stacking that grants them the best mitigation out there, they have an uncounterable, unpurgeable and overpowered ability which is Curse, they can put you at execution level with just 3 skills and they can finish you off, all of this while jumping in their mines.
Plus, they synergize so well with Shock staves and a High Elf Mag Sorc can do powerful damage with Force Pulse, both of which are clearly unreflectable and undodgeable beams that will, once again, help you proc the Execution Passive.

And you're saying this is not OP? You're saying you got hit the most? You're saying you're being nerfed in this patch like all other classes who will vanish in the next months or become completely irrelevant in PvP?

Either you don't play your class properly, you never tried to play another class or your completely dishonest and scared shitless to lose even one of these priveledges and have to actually fight and earn your kills and have to actually play skillfully and die as often as any other class instead of just sit in the back, one shotting people and streaking away from every root or ground AoE being applied to you.

And please, don't tell me I have to play the class because my main DPS is a mag Sorc and I can hit almost 20k DPS on console, with a rotation I practiced 1 hour a day for 2 weeks, 35k magicka and 2.3k spell damage and mostly blue and green items equipped while my stam sorc hit 15k DPS with Automaton just fresh outta grinding.
Automaton and random Rubedite swords I pick up farming world mobs. 15k. With basically all the passives to unlock.


Enjoy your class but don't try to justify this s#!t.

Xvorg

Aedaryl wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

Magıc wrote: »

People who cry about sorcs shields make me laugh.

These cost increase changes will hurt sorc too. Sustaining on sorc is going to be hard too (dark deal/conversion need to be nerfed, but at the same time, players with even a few brain cells know that they need to bash socs).

Hexys and I calculated that to make streak cost the same on PTS as they do on live currently (as a non breton) you have to race change to breton as well as stick 3 cost reduction glyphs on. That means you lose 700ish SD. And all the good sorcs will tell you that they judge their sustain/skill cost based on streak cost.

what is 700 SD for a class that increases it by sloting class skills and has access to major sorcery through a class skill?

Mageblades, Mageplars and mDKs are going to have the same problem, but they don't have that passive, so each point they put into cost reduction/magicka recobvery is going to affect them twice.

The passive give 2% more spell damage by sorc skill in bar => About 8% more spell damage.

Mageblade have major sorcery in class skill "sap essence" , dk have it too "Molten weapons" and also, everyone have can have it by mage guild, and can have a dot + 2% more magicka + 2% more magicka regen + empowerded your next attack (+25%) by using it.

700% spell damage lost is insane, just think Alchemist set in not even at that number.

This proove your lack of knowledge in the game, and show you are just here to complain because sorcs kill you.

Have you tried to use sap essence playing a ranged mageblade? Have you tried to cast Molten weapons while sneaking?

Regarding entropy, it is a crap of a skill. Try to use it against a permaroller. Is not worth a slot, besides if you play using animation cancel or weaving, the empower goes to a light attack... very useful.

If you want to know more about classes, please, play them, then come here to discuss. Your theoretical verse is not very useful in this discussion.

Kilandros

Ashnunn wrote: »

Shields will cost more - moving points over to regen will take away from max magicka = reduced shield size.

Shield spamming, while still possible, will be much harder

not really

Edziu

Aedaryl wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

Magıc wrote: »

People who cry about sorcs shields make me laugh.

These cost increase changes will hurt sorc too. Sustaining on sorc is going to be hard too (dark deal/conversion need to be nerfed, but at the same time, players with even a few brain cells know that they need to bash socs).

Hexys and I calculated that to make streak cost the same on PTS as they do on live currently (as a non breton) you have to race change to breton as well as stick 3 cost reduction glyphs on. That means you lose 700ish SD. And all the good sorcs will tell you that they judge their sustain/skill cost based on streak cost.

what is 700 SD for a class that increases it by sloting class skills and has access to major sorcery through a class skill?

Mageblades, Mageplars and mDKs are going to have the same problem, but they don't have that passive, so each point they put into cost reduction/magicka recobvery is going to affect them twice.

The passive give 2% more spell damage by sorc skill in bar => About 8% more spell damage.

Mageblade have major sorcery in class skill "sap essence" , dk have it too "Molten weapons" and also, everyone have can have it by mage guild, and can have a dot + 2% more magicka + 2% more magicka regen + empowerded your next attack (+25%) by using it.

700% spell damage lost is insane, just think Alchemist set in not even at that number.

This proove your lack of knowledge in the game, and show you are just here to complain because sorcs kill you.

you forgod about surge from sorcs which is gicing also 20% to your spell damage for 30+ sec and it giving you heals when you will hit with crit to your opponent while magblade sap essence need to hit your target in melee and lasts only 20 seconds and mag dk molten armaments are giving also just 20% to spell dmg for 39 seconds and givinf more damage to your heavy attacks.

so magblade sap essence you can take off from comparing to this whiel you forgetting about your on of the best class skill buffs

Surge, the best magicka class skill ? In PvP, Most of sorc don't even use it, wake up guy. Entropy is better it give you health on light attacks and since sorc have shield to restore HP, there is no reason to slot surge over 2% more magicka, 2% more regen, damage and Empowered buff.

Edziu wrote: »

you forgetting about your one of the best class skill buffs

sorry fixed!

and I know they are using entropy but mostly what I know they using this more to just empower other their skills while from surge at all you have better and guaranteed heal after crit ahiel also heal from entropy is such pathetic for me, hel from lgiht attacks..sorry, chance to heal from light attacks which are so weak on cyrodil lol

and wake up guy! you dont get any any nerf to your class while escept overall cp nerf to everyone while every other class got to huge nerf

Cyrisus

Weps wrote: »

What makes me laugh is Sorcs people complaining about this patch.
Really. If you're saying you're hit the most you need to learn how to play your own class.
I agree with whoever said that stamsorcs are the poster child of abused CPs and sustain problems and I have to add even Magsorcs and their infinite streaking, shield stacking and whatever other freaking features they have.

Again, you fooled the whole community once with that Haunting Curse Homestead PTS 1 "nerf", QQing so much about how you could not put enough pressure on enemy players in PvP, that eventually turned into the greatest buff of recent patches.
Is basically this class that makes it impossible to go around with light and medium armor even in CP campaigns, because sneaky nightblades have counters meanwhile 2 sorcs in the same group will nuke you down from 20 metres away before you could even begin to put pressure on them. Even with heavy armor.

This class has the most effective shield stacking of the game, with Hardened Ward (basically the strongest pure damage shield out there and could easily skyrocket your mitigation to 20k plus in PVP ) that can be stacked on top of Harness Magicka that will basically erase his cost while protecting your butt.
They have Crit Surge who can basically keep them healed while they're murdering you from 20mt away.
They have the Blood Magic passive that will restore you 8% more Health when you cast a Dark Magic ability.
So with a Dark Conversion and a 8k plus C-Frag they will be at full health and full magicka with just 2431 stamina and 4050 magicka. Dark Conversion, of course, untouched by this patch.
They have Unholy Knowledge passive that reduces the cost of magicka and stamina abilities by A LOT and it's the only passive of this kind which remains UNTOUCHED BY THIS PATCH.
They have Capacitator who increases your Magicka Recovery by 10%. Again, untouched by this patch.
They have skills and passives that can increase their max Magicka, Health, Magicka return. And all those skills can also stack Weapon and Spell damage on top of the passive that buffs Physical and Shock Damage that, drum roll please, is helpful to proc their class defyning ability: a second execution. A passive execution.
They have the mobility, the powerful damaging monster set that synergizes so damn well with their shield stacking that grants them the best mitigation out there, they have an uncounterable, unpurgeable and overpowered ability which is Curse, they can put you at execution level with just 3 skills and they can finish you off, all of this while jumping in their mines.
Plus, they synergize so well with Shock staves and a High Elf Mag Sorc can do powerful damage with Force Pulse, both of which are clearly unreflectable and undodgeable beams that will, once again, help you proc the Execution Passive.

And you're saying this is not OP? You're saying you got hit the most? You're saying you're being nerfed in this patch like all other classes who will vanish in the next months or become completely irrelevant in PvP?

Either you don't play your class properly, you never tried to play another class or your completely dishonest and scared shitless to lose even one of these priveledges and have to actually fight and earn your kills and have to actually play skillfully and die as often as any other class instead of just sit in the back, one shotting people and streaking away from every root or ground AoE being applied to you.

And please, don't tell me I have to play the class because my main DPS is a mag Sorc and I can hit almost 20k DPS on console, with a rotation I practiced 1 hour a day for 2 weeks, 35k magicka and 2.3k spell damage and mostly blue and green items equipped while my stam sorc hit 15k DPS with Automaton just fresh outta grinding.
Automaton and random Rubedite swords I pick up farming world mobs. 15k. With basically all the passives to unlock.


Enjoy your class but don't try to justify this s#!t.

All true. Magsorc has been my main class since I started and boy it's about time shieldstacking got taken care of. It was alright when magsorc was a mediocre class during most of 2016 but if you give the class damage you have to take away from its survivability. You can't just give the class everything like it is right now. Either give it damage and remove tankiness or remove damage and keep tankiness (preferably remove tankiness since it's meant to be a squishy burst mage).

I just want to see shieldstacking gone, it makes the game less skillful and more faceroll. Shielding should be strategic and thought out, not just "I prepare myself for a 20k burst, no problem because shields OP". You shouldn't be able to double shield, walk in with Pirate Skeleton and activate a destro ult while spamming your shields taking no damage and dealing insane amounts yourself.

Twohothardware

Kilandros wrote: »

Ashnunn wrote: »

Shields will cost more - moving points over to regen will take away from max magicka = reduced shield size.

Shield spamming, while still possible, will be much harder

not really

I shield stacked just fine during no cp week. I shield stack just fine in Blackwater. You just don't get to put all damage glyphs on jewelry and have 4000 spell damage.

Xvorg

Weps wrote: »

What makes me laugh is Sorcs people complaining about this patch.
Really. If you're saying you're hit the most you need to learn how to play your own class.
I agree with whoever said that stamsorcs are the poster child of abused CPs and sustain problems and I have to add even Magsorcs and their infinite streaking, shield stacking and whatever other freaking features they have.

Again, you fooled the whole community once with that Haunting Curse Homestead PTS 1 "nerf", QQing so much about how you could not put enough pressure on enemy players in PvP, that eventually turned into the greatest buff of recent patches.
Is basically this class that makes it impossible to go around with light and medium armor even in CP campaigns, because sneaky nightblades have counters meanwhile 2 sorcs in the same group will nuke you down from 20 metres away before you could even begin to put pressure on them. Even with heavy armor.

This class has the most effective shield stacking of the game, with Hardened Ward (basically the strongest pure damage shield out there and could easily skyrocket your mitigation to 20k plus in PVP ) that can be stacked on top of Harness Magicka that will basically erase his cost while protecting your butt.
They have Crit Surge who can basically keep them healed while they're murdering you from 20mt away.
They have the Blood Magic passive that will restore you 8% more Health when you cast a Dark Magic ability.
So with a Dark Conversion and a 8k plus C-Frag they will be at full health and full magicka with just 2431 stamina and 4050 magicka. Dark Conversion, of course, untouched by this patch.
They have Unholy Knowledge passive that reduces the cost of magicka and stamina abilities by A LOT and it's the only passive of this kind which remains UNTOUCHED BY THIS PATCH.
They have Capacitator who increases your Magicka Recovery by 10%. Again, untouched by this patch.
They have skills and passives that can increase their max Magicka, Health, Magicka return. And all those skills can also stack Weapon and Spell damage on top of the passive that buffs Physical and Shock Damage that, drum roll please, is helpful to proc their class defyning ability: a second execution. A passive execution.
They have the mobility, the powerful damaging monster set that synergizes so damn well with their shield stacking that grants them the best mitigation out there, they have an uncounterable, unpurgeable and overpowered ability which is Curse, they can put you at execution level with just 3 skills and they can finish you off, all of this while jumping in their mines.
Plus, they synergize so well with Shock staves and a High Elf Mag Sorc can do powerful damage with Force Pulse, both of which are clearly unreflectable and undodgeable beams that will, once again, help you proc the Execution Passive.

And you're saying this is not OP? You're saying you got hit the most? You're saying you're being nerfed in this patch like all other classes who will vanish in the next months or become completely irrelevant in PvP?

Either you don't play your class properly, you never tried to play another class or your completely dishonest and scared shitless to lose even one of these priveledges and have to actually fight and earn your kills and have to actually play skillfully and die as often as any other class instead of just sit in the back, one shotting people and streaking away from every root or ground AoE being applied to you.

And please, don't tell me I have to play the class because my main DPS is a mag Sorc and I can hit almost 20k DPS on console, with a rotation I practiced 1 hour a day for 2 weeks, 35k magicka and 2.3k spell damage and mostly blue and green items equipped while my stam sorc hit 15k DPS with Automaton just fresh outta grinding.
Automaton and random Rubedite swords I pick up farming world mobs. 15k. With basically all the passives to unlock.


Enjoy your class but don't try to justify this s#!t.

You forgot the passive that reduces the ulti cost in the same amout Akaviri Dragonguard (a 5 pieces set) does

Weps

Xvorg wrote: »

Weps wrote: »

What makes me laugh is Sorcs people complaining about this patch.
Really. If you're saying you're hit the most you need to learn how to play your own class.
I agree with whoever said that stamsorcs are the poster child of abused CPs and sustain problems and I have to add even Magsorcs and their infinite streaking, shield stacking and whatever other freaking features they have.

[...Continue]

You forgot the passive that reduces the ulti cost in the same amout Akaviri Dragonguard (a 5 pieces set) does

lol, thanks.
I guess I forgot even other passives from other classes that are cost reduction but not a single class have recovery, skill cost reduction and ulti cost reduction on different passives. All untouched.
And they got nerf'd.

And elephants flies.

Aedaryl

Weps wrote: »

What makes me laugh is Sorcs people complaining about this patch.
Really. If you're saying you're hit the most you need to learn how to play your own class.
I agree with whoever said that stamsorcs are the poster child of abused CPs and sustain problems and I have to add even Magsorcs and their infinite streaking, shield stacking and whatever other freaking features they have.

Streak cannot be spamming, and this is the ability that's touched the more by sustain nerf, 21% less cost reduction on a 50% skill cost use increase is huge. People can spam heal, why not shield ?

Again, you fooled the whole community once with that Haunting Curse Homestead PTS 1 "nerf", QQing so much about how you could not put enough pressure on enemy players in PvP, that eventually turned into the greatest buff of recent patches. No good sorc will wait 8s for the second curse when you can use it twice in that time. This is only a PvE change.
Is basically this class that makes it impossible to go around with light and medium armor even in CP campaigns, because sneaky nightblades have counters meanwhile 2 sorcs in the same group will nuke you down from 20 metres away before you could even begin to put pressure on them. Even with heavy armor. You don't know how playing a NB if you are not able to survive/escape sorc, l2p issue

This class has the most effective shield stacking of the game, with Hardened Ward (basically the strongest pure damage shield out there and could easily skyrocket your mitigation to 20k plus in PVP ) that can be stacked on top of Harness Magicka that will basically erase his cost while protecting your butt.

Shield is not mitigation, shields have no resistances and can't be crit, thisis not mitigation, like armor

They have Crit Surge who can basically keep them healed while they're murdering you from 20mt away.

Entropy is far better, good sorc don't use critical surge in PvP

They have the Blood Magic passive that will restore you 8% more Health when you cast a Dark Magic ability.

Crystal frag cannot be spammed, and since light armor take the most damage, this passive is just not great, sorc use healing ward when they need HP


So with a Dark Conversion and a 8k plus C-Frag they will be at full health and full magicka with just 2431 stamina and 4050 magicka. Dark Conversion, of course, untouched by this patch.

Dark conversion can only be use in homestead with amberplasm, since you have less regen, cp roll dodge and break free seperate, and less stamina recovery from player that light attack you, this skill can not now be call a magicka regen skill for mag sorc, plus it can be bashed/crushing shocked

They have Unholy Knowledge passive that reduces the cost of magicka and stamina abilities by A LOT and it's the only passive of this kind which remains UNTOUCHED BY THIS PATCH.

5% is only 2% more than breton passive, crying baby asking for nerf, did you tried mag sorc in PTS ? Also, NB regen passive didn't got touched by this patch, stop doing misinformation pls

They have Capacitator who increases your Magicka Recovery by 10%. Again, untouched by this patch.

See above

They have skills and passives that can increase their max Magicka, Health, Magicka return

Slotting 2 skill for 8% max magicka is not a great skill, nb have that in passive, and inner light give 7% max magicka, 10% critical chance, empowered buff, 2% magicka regen, and reveale ennemies near you. The max health is a passive by slotting 2 skill for a pet, which 1% of sorc do in PvP. where is my skill/passive that increase my magicka return ?

And all those skills can also stack Weapon and Spell damage on top of the passive that buffs Physical and Shock Damage that, drum roll please, is helpful to proc their class defyning ability: a second execution. A passive execution.

They have the mobility,

streak took serious nerf, anyone wearing medium armor can have a similar if not better mobility too

the powerful damaging monster set that synergizes so damn well with their shield stacking that grants them the best mitigation out there,

Damage set is not a sorc class ability and everyone say that set need nerf, sorcs are the first. see above for mitigation part

they have an uncounterable, unpurgeable and overpowered ability which is Curse

Curse is purgeable, and counterable by that and by the fact you exactly now when it will damage you.

, they can put you at execution level with just 3 skills and they can finish you off, all of this while jumping in their mines.

If you are not able to survive the most telegraphed burst in the game and not able to counter mines, it's a L2P issue, sorry

Plus, they synergize so well with Shock staves and a High Elf Mag Sorc can do powerful damage with Force Pulse , both of which are clearly unreflectable and undodgeable beams that will, once again, help you proc the Execution Passive.

There is no decent sorc using a lightning staff over a fire staff in PvP, which game do you play ?

And you're saying this is not OP? You're saying you got hit the most? You're saying you're being nerfed in this patch like all other classes who will vanish in the next months or become completely irrelevant in PvP?

It's not OP, everyone will adapt, sorc and others too

Either you don't play your class properly, you never tried to play another class or your completely dishonest and scared shitless to lose even one of these priveledges and have to actually fight and earn your kills and have to actually play skillfully and die as often as any other class instead of just sit in the back, one shotting people and streaking away from every root or ground AoE being applied to you.

You are complaining about mechanics you don't even understand and now how it work, it's a l2p issue, sorry again

And please, don't tell me I have to play the class because my main DPS is a mag Sorc and I can hit almost 20k DPS on console, with a rotation I practiced 1 hour a day for 2 weeks, 35k magicka and 2.3k spell damage and mostly blue and green items equipped while my stam sorc hit 15k DPS with Automaton just fresh outta grinding.
Automaton and random Rubedite swords I pick up farming world mobs. 15k. With basically all the passives to unlock.


Even AFK, I can put more dps than that, pls, stop that l2p issue, you just seems stupid.

Enjoy your class but don't try to justify this s#!t.

I enjoy my class, but I can't stop laughing fixing your false informations