Sorcs and Favoritism

Kilandros

Dracane wrote: »

Kilandros wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Kilandros wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Idinuse wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Completely disagree with everything from OP.
I kill mag Sorcs easier than anything. I think they are the easiest to counter, easiest to burst down and least threatening overall. And Sorcs were waiting for buffsa very long time, we were left in the cold for a very long time until we received (mostly indirect) buffs that everyone can profit from.

Sorcs rarely received anything personal besides nerfs. The only true buffs we have received were pet buffs, that most people don't even want to use. Sorcerer has remained almost untouched since so many updates and most people I encounter know just exactly how to deal with streak and shields in general. You really should calm down.

I so agree with you, in fact for me, I kill Templars easier than anything. Their pathetic stuns they had from Blazing Shield, their ridiculously low hits with RD, even the execute was so easy to counter, so easy to move out of their Jabs. As soon as their arms go up in the air to brainlessly BoL spam, I interrupted and simply face melted them. And yet they received nerf after nerf after nerf, well even more than your Sorc class, I mean those Sorcs you are killing so easily. No, no. Templars have always been the weakest class in the game for me. And Templars have been waiting for buffs, usable passives, and less channeled or cast time skills. But no. They received the hardest nerfs in the game. Again.

And yet they are the easiest kills for me. All my friends and most people know exactly how to neutralize almost anything a Templar can do by now. People really should have calmed down in regards to Templars, now look at the poor souls.

(Btw, as you play a Sorc, I do main a Templar, 5.000+ hours, ridiculous don't you agree?)

But Magicka Templar was considered the strongest by everyone just until recently. They are the most cancerous and immortal class and are the biggest pain to deal with. When fighting a group of enemies, I do not fear the DDs or so. No; i fear nothing but the Templar. In my eyes, it's a completely overpowered class.

Templar hasn't been the PvE or PvP meta for months. Sorcerer has been outperforming every class in both PvP and PvE for nearly 6 months now. It has the highest PvE DPS, the highest vMA scores, and is the most popular class in Cyro.

Strange, all I ever see are DKs and Templars and the Sorcs that I see, I just roll over them and enjoy the free AP.
But really nothing outshines everything as much as Templars do and I know I'm by far not alone with this opinion. Perhaps Forum Warriors are just a different kind of people. But in game people are perfectly aware of it.

I'm aware of the pve dps thing and vMA though. But well, this has nothing to do with pvp really, where Sorc damage, in my opinion, is lackluster unless you are a decent petsorc

I don't know you as a player, but if you're complaining about Sorc damage in PvP I suspect it's a L2P issue (I hate using that). Sorcerer's are far and away the class with the best burst on live.

Don't worry, I'm just a low noob Sorc. I know nothing

I'm not saying that. But you appear to be so blinded by class bias that it's almost absurd. Go watch some of Qaevir's Sorcerer videos where he hits people with 20k Frags and tell me that Sorcerer damage is inadequate in PvP. Sorcerers can build for full offense and still have terrific defense thanks to Shields scaling off of max Magicka. Literally no other class can do that. Is Templar is a great class? Yes. Does Templar have as much burst in PvP as a Sorcerer? LOL no.

CatchMeTrolling

As to the "change" to bastion what sorc actually put 100 points into it ? So considering that wouldn't bastion be much more valuable now since you get more for less

KramUzibra

Kilandros wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Kilandros wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Idinuse wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Completely disagree with everything from OP.
I kill mag Sorcs easier than anything. I think they are the easiest to counter, easiest to burst down and least threatening overall. And Sorcs were waiting for buffsa very long time, we were left in the cold for a very long time until we received (mostly indirect) buffs that everyone can profit from.

Sorcs rarely received anything personal besides nerfs. The only true buffs we have received were pet buffs, that most people don't even want to use. Sorcerer has remained almost untouched since so many updates and most people I encounter know just exactly how to deal with streak and shields in general. You really should calm down.

I so agree with you, in fact for me, I kill Templars easier than anything. Their pathetic stuns they had from Blazing Shield, their ridiculously low hits with RD, even the execute was so easy to counter, so easy to move out of their Jabs. As soon as their arms go up in the air to brainlessly BoL spam, I interrupted and simply face melted them. And yet they received nerf after nerf after nerf, well even more than your Sorc class, I mean those Sorcs you are killing so easily. No, no. Templars have always been the weakest class in the game for me. And Templars have been waiting for buffs, usable passives, and less channeled or cast time skills. But no. They received the hardest nerfs in the game. Again.

And yet they are the easiest kills for me. All my friends and most people know exactly how to neutralize almost anything a Templar can do by now. People really should have calmed down in regards to Templars, now look at the poor souls.

(Btw, as you play a Sorc, I do main a Templar, 5.000+ hours, ridiculous don't you agree?)

But Magicka Templar was considered the strongest by everyone just until recently. They are the most cancerous and immortal class and are the biggest pain to deal with. When fighting a group of enemies, I do not fear the DDs or so. No; i fear nothing but the Templar. In my eyes, it's a completely overpowered class.

Templar hasn't been the PvE or PvP meta for months. Sorcerer has been outperforming every class in both PvP and PvE for nearly 6 months now. It has the highest PvE DPS, the highest vMA scores, and is the most popular class in Cyro.

Strange, all I ever see are DKs and Templars and the Sorcs that I see, I just roll over them and enjoy the free AP.
But really nothing outshines everything as much as Templars do and I know I'm by far not alone with this opinion. Perhaps Forum Warriors are just a different kind of people. But in game people are perfectly aware of it.

I'm aware of the pve dps thing and vMA though. But well, this has nothing to do with pvp really, where Sorc damage, in my opinion, is lackluster unless you are a decent petsorc

I don't know you as a player, but if you're complaining about Sorc damage in PvP I suspect it's a L2P issue (I hate using that). Sorcerer's are far and away the class with the best burst on live.

I play a med armor stam dk and out of all the mag builds sorcs by far hit me the hardest and fastest, and with all the changes to sustain I suspect more players will roll over to medium.

Malamar1229

Kilandros wrote: »

I'm not saying that. But you appear to be so blinded by class bias that it's almost absurd. Go watch some of Qaevir's Sorcerer videos where he hits people with 20k Frags and tell me that Sorcerer damage is inadequate in PvP. Sorcerers can build for full offense and still have terrific defense thanks to Shields scaling off of max Magicka. Literally no other class can do that. Is Templar is a great class? Yes. Does Templar have as much burst in PvP as a Sorcerer? LOL no.

This statement is what is wrong with these forums. You get a small handful of payers posting video of potato farming and everyone thinks a class is OP. I used to do it as well. QAM will gladly come on here and tell you he has weaknesses in his build. He is specifically built for high damage frags, use a reflect...slot harness, slot an absorb. Grab Miats Pvp cheat Addon like everyone else.

I have never been obliterated by a 22k frag that wasn't my fault. Potato farming happens because players who are unaware of their surroundings, who lemming themselves into situations that allow for us to make videos like that.

Kilandros

Malamar1229 wrote: »

Kilandros wrote: »

I'm not saying that. But you appear to be so blinded by class bias that it's almost absurd. Go watch some of Qaevir's Sorcerer videos where he hits people with 20k Frags and tell me that Sorcerer damage is inadequate in PvP. Sorcerers can build for full offense and still have terrific defense thanks to Shields scaling off of max Magicka. Literally no other class can do that. Is Templar is a great class? Yes. Does Templar have as much burst in PvP as a Sorcerer? LOL no.

This statement is what is wrong with these forums. You get a small handful of payers posting video of potato farming and everyone thinks a class is OP. I used to do it as well. QAM will gladly come on here and tell you he has weaknesses in his build. He is specifically built for high damage frags, use a reflect...slot harness, slot an absorb. Grab Miats Pvp cheat Addon like everyone else.

I have never been obliterated by a 22k frag that wasn't my fault. Potato farming happens because players who are unaware of their surroundings, who lemming themselves into situations that allow for us to make videos like that.

My point was clearly to demonstrate that Sorcerer is capable of top burst. If you disagree with that, please show me a 22k Flame Lash. All classes have limitations and all classes excel against bad players. But if you go back a couple of posts you'll see that I'm responding to Dracane's argument that Sorcerer's have poor damage in PvP. That is just blatantly wrong. I used QAM's build as an example of how extreme Sorc damage actually is.

Malamar1229

Kilandros wrote: »

Malamar1229 wrote: »

Kilandros wrote: »

I'm not saying that. But you appear to be so blinded by class bias that it's almost absurd. Go watch some of Qaevir's Sorcerer videos where he hits people with 20k Frags and tell me that Sorcerer damage is inadequate in PvP. Sorcerers can build for full offense and still have terrific defense thanks to Shields scaling off of max Magicka. Literally no other class can do that. Is Templar is a great class? Yes. Does Templar have as much burst in PvP as a Sorcerer? LOL no.

This statement is what is wrong with these forums. You get a small handful of payers posting video of potato farming and everyone thinks a class is OP. I used to do it as well. QAM will gladly come on here and tell you he has weaknesses in his build. He is specifically built for high damage frags, use a reflect...slot harness, slot an absorb. Grab Miats Pvp cheat Addon like everyone else.

I have never been obliterated by a 22k frag that wasn't my fault. Potato farming happens because players who are unaware of their surroundings, who lemming themselves into situations that allow for us to make videos like that.

My point was clearly to demonstrate that Sorcerer is capable of top burst. If you disagree with that, please show me a 22k Flame Lash. All classes have limitations and all classes excel against bad players. But if you go back a couple of posts you'll see that I'm responding to Dracane's argument that Sorcerer's have poor damage in PvP. That is just blatantly wrong. I used QAM's build as an example of how extreme Sorc damage actually is.

Not every class should be brought on par with one another. This is an AvA game that encourages grouping not solo play. That's your problem. You all keep trying to balance around 1v1. Wrong game.

QAM has a high magicka pool and low regen. Throw on stam poison and go at it. These guys don't post videos of them dying but they die just like the rest of us. 99% of the time I die, it was my fault. I had a 40-something kill streak the last time I was in Cyrodiil and it absolutely wasn't because I am OP. It's because I killed bad players that did stupid things. So I guess I should be nerfed into the ground, again, because I outplayed them.

Minalan

Kilandros wrote: »

Malamar1229 wrote: »

Kilandros wrote: »

I'm not saying that. But you appear to be so blinded by class bias that it's almost absurd. Go watch some of Qaevir's Sorcerer videos where he hits people with 20k Frags and tell me that Sorcerer damage is inadequate in PvP. Sorcerers can build for full offense and still have terrific defense thanks to Shields scaling off of max Magicka. Literally no other class can do that. Is Templar is a great class? Yes. Does Templar have as much burst in PvP as a Sorcerer? LOL no.

This statement is what is wrong with these forums. You get a small handful of payers posting video of potato farming and everyone thinks a class is OP. I used to do it as well. QAM will gladly come on here and tell you he has weaknesses in his build. He is specifically built for high damage frags, use a reflect...slot harness, slot an absorb. Grab Miats Pvp cheat Addon like everyone else.

I have never been obliterated by a 22k frag that wasn't my fault. Potato farming happens because players who are unaware of their surroundings, who lemming themselves into situations that allow for us to make videos like that.

My point was clearly to demonstrate that Sorcerer is capable of top burst. If you disagree with that, please show me a 22k Flame Lash. All classes have limitations and all classes excel against bad players. But if you go back a couple of posts you'll see that I'm responding to Dracane's argument that Sorcerer's have poor damage in PvP. That is just blatantly wrong. I used QAM's build as an example of how extreme Sorc damage actually is.

Show me a reflectable flame lash.
Someone shooting a 22K frag has:

1. No sustain. QAM has about 800 regen. Try Magicka poisoning people like that.
2. No stamina regen.
3. No spammable ability.
4. Four bar slots wasted by mage light and bound aegis. Leaving six for actual skills. Total. Three of which are shields. He can't even fit curse on this build.
5. Crutches on one skill you can reflect, and force him to take or block 22K himself.
6. The 22K skill can only be proc'ed 35% of the time when casting another spell. 65% of the time this won't happen.
7. The 22K requires an empower before casting. You know exactly when it's coming. Empower is responsible for 4-5k (20%) of that damage. Try empowering YOUR attacks and see how you do.
8. People in heavy armor aren't getting hit for 22K.
9. People with high crit resist aren't getting hit for 22K.
10. People with full elemental defender aren't getting hit for 22K.
11. People who dodge, block, or reflect aren't getting hit for 22K.
12. The 22K requires a crit that can only happen 45% of the time or so.

Learn to play and stop crying. Understand the game mechanics before you open your mouth to spout this level of ignorance.

People who whine about things like this really irritate me. Duuuuh! OMG sorc is OP because someone manipulates game mechanics with a weird high damage frag only build with a million different counters.

Malamar1229

@Kilandros Just curious did you run any other setup other than EG while you were playing BGs? Funny thing I ran about 75 BGs since Tuesday and I dont recall seeing any of your toons once. Saw a lot of repeat players over and over again (Miat, QAM, Montaya, etc). Never once you.

My experience? I had several people hit me out of stealth with the triple proc sets again. I wasn't running def rune like I do in open world because I was legit testing new sets etc instead of worrying about wins.

However, yeah that still exists.

I do agree with you in a way. i think Sorcs in general will feel more comfortable in BGs than in Cyrodiil.

Kilandros

Malamar1229 wrote: »

@Kilandros Just curious did you run any other setup other than EG while you were playing BGs? Funny thing I ran about 75 BGs since Tuesday and I dont recall seeing any of your toons once. Saw a lot of repeat players over and over again (Miat, QAM, Montaya, etc). Never once you.

My experience? I had several people hit me out of stealth with the triple proc sets again. I wasn't running def rune like I do in open world because I was legit testing new sets etc instead of worrying about wins.

However, yeah that still exists.

I do agree with you in a way. i think Sorcs in general will feel more comfortable in BGs than in Cyrodiil.

I ran a variety of set ups for both Magicka and Stamina variants. I don't recall seeing you either, but I don't know who you are or what your characters are (That's not an insult - I just don't ever recall seeing you in PvP).

I was in there testing sets/abilities/sustain and not trying to play competitively (was just pugging the queue), but I found MagSorc to be the strongest pretty much regardless.

Kilandros

Minalan wrote: »

Kilandros wrote: »

Malamar1229 wrote: »

Kilandros wrote: »

I'm not saying that. But you appear to be so blinded by class bias that it's almost absurd. Go watch some of Qaevir's Sorcerer videos where he hits people with 20k Frags and tell me that Sorcerer damage is inadequate in PvP. Sorcerers can build for full offense and still have terrific defense thanks to Shields scaling off of max Magicka. Literally no other class can do that. Is Templar is a great class? Yes. Does Templar have as much burst in PvP as a Sorcerer? LOL no.

This statement is what is wrong with these forums. You get a small handful of payers posting video of potato farming and everyone thinks a class is OP. I used to do it as well. QAM will gladly come on here and tell you he has weaknesses in his build. He is specifically built for high damage frags, use a reflect...slot harness, slot an absorb. Grab Miats Pvp cheat Addon like everyone else.

I have never been obliterated by a 22k frag that wasn't my fault. Potato farming happens because players who are unaware of their surroundings, who lemming themselves into situations that allow for us to make videos like that.

My point was clearly to demonstrate that Sorcerer is capable of top burst. If you disagree with that, please show me a 22k Flame Lash. All classes have limitations and all classes excel against bad players. But if you go back a couple of posts you'll see that I'm responding to Dracane's argument that Sorcerer's have poor damage in PvP. That is just blatantly wrong. I used QAM's build as an example of how extreme Sorc damage actually is.

Show me a reflectable flame lash.
Someone shooting a 22K frag has:

1. No sustain. QAM has about 800 regen. Try Magicka poisoning people like that.
2. No stamina regen.
3. No spammable ability.
4. Four bar slots wasted by mage light and bound aegis. Leaving six for actual skills. Total. Three of which are shields. He can't even fit curse on this build.
5. Crutches on one skill you can reflect, and force him to take or block 22K himself.
6. The 22K skill can only be proc'ed 35% of the time when casting another spell. 65% of the time this won't happen.
7. The 22K requires an empower before casting. You know exactly when it's coming. Empower is responsible for 4-5k (20%) of that damage. Try empowering YOUR attacks and see how you do.
8. People in heavy armor aren't getting hit for 22K.
9. People with high crit resist aren't getting hit for 22K.
10. People with full elemental defender aren't getting hit for 22K.
11. People who dodge, block, or reflect aren't getting hit for 22K.
12. The 22K requires a crit that can only happen 45% of the time or so.

Learn to play and stop crying. Understand the game mechanics before you open your mouth to spout this level of ignorance.

People who whine about things like this really irritate me. Duuuuh! OMG sorc is OP because someone manipulates game mechanics with a weird high damage frag only build with a million different counters.

Who are you? Calling me ignorant and telling me I need to L2P doesn't change the fact that I'm quite well versed in PvP. I don't pretend to be the best player. But I do know what I'm talking about.

Vercingetorix

The people claiming that Sorcs are given preferential treatment are blatantly wrong. How quickly they forget about Thieves Guild. How quickly they forget about our only form of defense being slaughtered in PvE because some kid couldn't use "Shattering Blows" and stuns properly. Shields being ruined because ZoS refuses to use Battle Spirit to make PvP-specific changes that don't hinder PvE effectiveness, as it was originally designed for.

Sorcs have non-existent sustain. With the PTS patch, their sustain requirements put them in a position to rely upon healers to a degree that can no longer be sustained. Healers have less sustain to meet the demands of a Sorc. Sorcs got hurt by this patch - A LOT. Just because we didn't have a section with our abilities listed on the patch notes, doesn't mean we got hit the worst. Templars on the PTS are honestly right where Sorcs are right now on the live server, but as I said before, healers aren't in a position to really sustain the DPS needs of Sorcs and now Templars. (DK's are just about there, too.)

Lynx7386

Stop complaining, they'll end up beefing my stam sorc again

Artis

Dixa wrote: »

271 sorcs (49.5%)
141 DKs (25.7%)
86 templars (15.7%)
50 nightblades (9.1%)

you think sorcs are operating in a vacuum? they are benefiting from the same external sources of resource regeneration as every other class.

just because right now - today - sorcs are overplayed does not mean the pendulum won't swing elsewhere, or swing back to magicka dks later down the road.

all this shows is the game has been out long enough for those that do vet trials to have one of each class geared up and ready to roll with the new fotm[/quote]

Nonsense. I've been watching the leaderboard for the entire duration of the patch. The ratio of classes stayed pretty much the same for maybe a year. OK maybe there was a bit more DKs and fewer sorcs pre-homestead.

Yes sorcs are operating from the same sources, however, EVERYONE got those nerfed, but on top of that other classes got nerfed individually. But not a sorc. What exactly happened in these PTS that will bring mNB on top, for example?

Minalan

Kilandros wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

Kilandros wrote: »

Malamar1229 wrote: »

Kilandros wrote: »

I'm not saying that. But you appear to be so blinded by class bias that it's almost absurd. Go watch some of Qaevir's Sorcerer videos where he hits people with 20k Frags and tell me that Sorcerer damage is inadequate in PvP. Sorcerers can build for full offense and still have terrific defense thanks to Shields scaling off of max Magicka. Literally no other class can do that. Is Templar is a great class? Yes. Does Templar have as much burst in PvP as a Sorcerer? LOL no.

This statement is what is wrong with these forums. You get a small handful of payers posting video of potato farming and everyone thinks a class is OP. I used to do it as well. QAM will gladly come on here and tell you he has weaknesses in his build. He is specifically built for high damage frags, use a reflect...slot harness, slot an absorb. Grab Miats Pvp cheat Addon like everyone else.

I have never been obliterated by a 22k frag that wasn't my fault. Potato farming happens because players who are unaware of their surroundings, who lemming themselves into situations that allow for us to make videos like that.

My point was clearly to demonstrate that Sorcerer is capable of top burst. If you disagree with that, please show me a 22k Flame Lash. All classes have limitations and all classes excel against bad players. But if you go back a couple of posts you'll see that I'm responding to Dracane's argument that Sorcerer's have poor damage in PvP. That is just blatantly wrong. I used QAM's build as an example of how extreme Sorc damage actually is.

Show me a reflectable flame lash.
Someone shooting a 22K frag has:

1. No sustain. QAM has about 800 regen. Try Magicka poisoning people like that.
2. No stamina regen.
3. No spammable ability.
4. Four bar slots wasted by mage light and bound aegis. Leaving six for actual skills. Total. Three of which are shields. He can't even fit curse on this build.
5. Crutches on one skill you can reflect, and force him to take or block 22K himself.
6. The 22K skill can only be proc'ed 35% of the time when casting another spell. 65% of the time this won't happen.
7. The 22K requires an empower before casting. You know exactly when it's coming. Empower is responsible for 4-5k (20%) of that damage. Try empowering YOUR attacks and see how you do.
8. People in heavy armor aren't getting hit for 22K.
9. People with high crit resist aren't getting hit for 22K.
10. People with full elemental defender aren't getting hit for 22K.
11. People who dodge, block, or reflect aren't getting hit for 22K.
12. The 22K requires a crit that can only happen 45% of the time or so.

Learn to play and stop crying. Understand the game mechanics before you open your mouth to spout this level of ignorance.

People who whine about things like this really irritate me. Duuuuh! OMG sorc is OP because someone manipulates game mechanics with a weird high damage frag only build with a million different counters.

Who are you? Calling me ignorant and telling me I need to L2P doesn't change the fact that I'm quite well versed in PvP. I don't pretend to be the best player. But I do know what I'm talking about.

Apparently not if you think someone building to hit an undergeared, low CP player for 22K is 'overpowered'.

Fact is you had no idea how he did it, you just pointed at it and cried to the devs.

Vosital

Vercingetorix wrote: »

Sorcs have non-existent sustain. With the PTS patch, their sustain requirements put them in a position to rely upon healers to a degree that can no longer be sustained. Healers have less sustain to meet the demands of a Sorc. Sorcs got hurt by this patch - A LOT. Just because we didn't have a section with our abilities listed on the patch notes, doesn't mean we got hit the worst. Templars on the PTS are honestly right where Sorcs are right now on the live server, but as I said before, healers aren't in a position to really sustain the DPS needs of Sorcs and now Templars. (DK's are just about there, too.)

You understand that class balance is relative, right? ALL the classes in the game have to deal with the sustain issues. But you need to understand:

1. Sorcs are already the best PvP class right now
2. Other classes got direct nerfs on top of the sustain issues
3. Other classes already have terrible sustain (DKs in particular), and post-patch will be unplayable. Meanwhile Sorcs have amazing tools to sustain in comparison, so it is not as much of a problem.

Again, because all of you Sorc mains don't seem to understand: Class balance is all relative. Obviously the nerfs to light armor and removal of Magician effect you, they affect everyone.

spiiros

Artis wrote: »

What exactly happened in these PTS that will bring mNB on top, for example?

mNB and their sustain and low burst

Kilandros

Minalan wrote: »

Kilandros wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

Kilandros wrote: »

Malamar1229 wrote: »

Kilandros wrote: »

I'm not saying that. But you appear to be so blinded by class bias that it's almost absurd. Go watch some of Qaevir's Sorcerer videos where he hits people with 20k Frags and tell me that Sorcerer damage is inadequate in PvP. Sorcerers can build for full offense and still have terrific defense thanks to Shields scaling off of max Magicka. Literally no other class can do that. Is Templar is a great class? Yes. Does Templar have as much burst in PvP as a Sorcerer? LOL no.

This statement is what is wrong with these forums. You get a small handful of payers posting video of potato farming and everyone thinks a class is OP. I used to do it as well. QAM will gladly come on here and tell you he has weaknesses in his build. He is specifically built for high damage frags, use a reflect...slot harness, slot an absorb. Grab Miats Pvp cheat Addon like everyone else.

I have never been obliterated by a 22k frag that wasn't my fault. Potato farming happens because players who are unaware of their surroundings, who lemming themselves into situations that allow for us to make videos like that.

My point was clearly to demonstrate that Sorcerer is capable of top burst. If you disagree with that, please show me a 22k Flame Lash. All classes have limitations and all classes excel against bad players. But if you go back a couple of posts you'll see that I'm responding to Dracane's argument that Sorcerer's have poor damage in PvP. That is just blatantly wrong. I used QAM's build as an example of how extreme Sorc damage actually is.

Show me a reflectable flame lash.
Someone shooting a 22K frag has:

1. No sustain. QAM has about 800 regen. Try Magicka poisoning people like that.
2. No stamina regen.
3. No spammable ability.
4. Four bar slots wasted by mage light and bound aegis. Leaving six for actual skills. Total. Three of which are shields. He can't even fit curse on this build.
5. Crutches on one skill you can reflect, and force him to take or block 22K himself.
6. The 22K skill can only be proc'ed 35% of the time when casting another spell. 65% of the time this won't happen.
7. The 22K requires an empower before casting. You know exactly when it's coming. Empower is responsible for 4-5k (20%) of that damage. Try empowering YOUR attacks and see how you do.
8. People in heavy armor aren't getting hit for 22K.
9. People with high crit resist aren't getting hit for 22K.
10. People with full elemental defender aren't getting hit for 22K.
11. People who dodge, block, or reflect aren't getting hit for 22K.
12. The 22K requires a crit that can only happen 45% of the time or so.

Learn to play and stop crying. Understand the game mechanics before you open your mouth to spout this level of ignorance.

People who whine about things like this really irritate me. Duuuuh! OMG sorc is OP because someone manipulates game mechanics with a weird high damage frag only build with a million different counters.

Who are you? Calling me ignorant and telling me I need to L2P doesn't change the fact that I'm quite well versed in PvP. I don't pretend to be the best player. But I do know what I'm talking about.

Apparently not if you think someone building to hit an undergeared, low CP player for 22K is 'overpowered'.

Fact is you had no idea how he did it, you just pointed at it and cried to the devs.

lol, you are legit unhinged

Magıc

Kilandros wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

Kilandros wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

Kilandros wrote: »

Malamar1229 wrote: »

Kilandros wrote: »

I'm not saying that. But you appear to be so blinded by class bias that it's almost absurd. Go watch some of Qaevir's Sorcerer videos where he hits people with 20k Frags and tell me that Sorcerer damage is inadequate in PvP. Sorcerers can build for full offense and still have terrific defense thanks to Shields scaling off of max Magicka. Literally no other class can do that. Is Templar is a great class? Yes. Does Templar have as much burst in PvP as a Sorcerer? LOL no.

This statement is what is wrong with these forums. You get a small handful of payers posting video of potato farming and everyone thinks a class is OP. I used to do it as well. QAM will gladly come on here and tell you he has weaknesses in his build. He is specifically built for high damage frags, use a reflect...slot harness, slot an absorb. Grab Miats Pvp cheat Addon like everyone else.

I have never been obliterated by a 22k frag that wasn't my fault. Potato farming happens because players who are unaware of their surroundings, who lemming themselves into situations that allow for us to make videos like that.

My point was clearly to demonstrate that Sorcerer is capable of top burst. If you disagree with that, please show me a 22k Flame Lash. All classes have limitations and all classes excel against bad players. But if you go back a couple of posts you'll see that I'm responding to Dracane's argument that Sorcerer's have poor damage in PvP. That is just blatantly wrong. I used QAM's build as an example of how extreme Sorc damage actually is.

Show me a reflectable flame lash.
Someone shooting a 22K frag has:

1. No sustain. QAM has about 800 regen. Try Magicka poisoning people like that.
2. No stamina regen.
3. No spammable ability.
4. Four bar slots wasted by mage light and bound aegis. Leaving six for actual skills. Total. Three of which are shields. He can't even fit curse on this build.
5. Crutches on one skill you can reflect, and force him to take or block 22K himself.
6. The 22K skill can only be proc'ed 35% of the time when casting another spell. 65% of the time this won't happen.
7. The 22K requires an empower before casting. You know exactly when it's coming. Empower is responsible for 4-5k (20%) of that damage. Try empowering YOUR attacks and see how you do.
8. People in heavy armor aren't getting hit for 22K.
9. People with high crit resist aren't getting hit for 22K.
10. People with full elemental defender aren't getting hit for 22K.
11. People who dodge, block, or reflect aren't getting hit for 22K.
12. The 22K requires a crit that can only happen 45% of the time or so.

Learn to play and stop crying. Understand the game mechanics before you open your mouth to spout this level of ignorance.

People who whine about things like this really irritate me. Duuuuh! OMG sorc is OP because someone manipulates game mechanics with a weird high damage frag only build with a million different counters.

Who are you? Calling me ignorant and telling me I need to L2P doesn't change the fact that I'm quite well versed in PvP. I don't pretend to be the best player. But I do know what I'm talking about.

Apparently not if you think someone building to hit an undergeared, low CP player for 22K is 'overpowered'.

Fact is you had no idea how he did it, you just pointed at it and cried to the devs.

lol, you are legit unhinged

Well he has a point if you're trying to use Qam's build as an example of OP sorcs lmao. All his points about its counters/weaknesses are all true. Idk the guy, i've seen a few of his vids and just like any 1vXer/small scaler, he's killing baddies with his build, not top players.

Baddies die to good players on any class with any gear setup. Qam just plays his build cause it's how he enjoys it. I've seen Frozy (who is in your guild i think?) 1vX etc. in powerful assault while every other DK out there is running 7th/ravager/alch/fury etc. lol.

Sorcs are OP for sure but crying on the forums spewing crap just makes you look silly.

nursingninja

What they need to do is Nerf player skill it sounds like.

Lord_Hev

Going to chime in and confirm that my build pretty much is a potato obliterator/world record breaker. Unlike most stam builds, the damage of my build has lots of counter-play and like every other sorc rotation, is telegraphed. I can also realistically be worn down in battles of attrition.


Using the extremity my build aims to achieve to argue that sorc's damage is overpowered is a logical fallacy. The meta destro/resto sorcs do not land the numbers I do. Their damage largely comes from sustained pressure. What -is- threatening about sorcs atm is being focused fired by 2 or more of them. This is even more evident in a NO CP environment where you do not have defensive CP. 2 curses put on you = extremely intense burst potential. But at the same time, sorc is very much killable in NO CP with equal focus fire from you and your group. Our shields are pitiful. I even tried 50k magic in NO CP, they just do not scale high without being amplified by bastion, as they should. That is the whole point of having the bastion tree.

Kilandros

Magıc wrote: »

Kilandros wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

Kilandros wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

Kilandros wrote: »

Malamar1229 wrote: »

Kilandros wrote: »

I'm not saying that. But you appear to be so blinded by class bias that it's almost absurd. Go watch some of Qaevir's Sorcerer videos where he hits people with 20k Frags and tell me that Sorcerer damage is inadequate in PvP. Sorcerers can build for full offense and still have terrific defense thanks to Shields scaling off of max Magicka. Literally no other class can do that. Is Templar is a great class? Yes. Does Templar have as much burst in PvP as a Sorcerer? LOL no.

This statement is what is wrong with these forums. You get a small handful of payers posting video of potato farming and everyone thinks a class is OP. I used to do it as well. QAM will gladly come on here and tell you he has weaknesses in his build. He is specifically built for high damage frags, use a reflect...slot harness, slot an absorb. Grab Miats Pvp cheat Addon like everyone else.

I have never been obliterated by a 22k frag that wasn't my fault. Potato farming happens because players who are unaware of their surroundings, who lemming themselves into situations that allow for us to make videos like that.

My point was clearly to demonstrate that Sorcerer is capable of top burst. If you disagree with that, please show me a 22k Flame Lash. All classes have limitations and all classes excel against bad players. But if you go back a couple of posts you'll see that I'm responding to Dracane's argument that Sorcerer's have poor damage in PvP. That is just blatantly wrong. I used QAM's build as an example of how extreme Sorc damage actually is.

Show me a reflectable flame lash.
Someone shooting a 22K frag has:

1. No sustain. QAM has about 800 regen. Try Magicka poisoning people like that.
2. No stamina regen.
3. No spammable ability.
4. Four bar slots wasted by mage light and bound aegis. Leaving six for actual skills. Total. Three of which are shields. He can't even fit curse on this build.
5. Crutches on one skill you can reflect, and force him to take or block 22K himself.
6. The 22K skill can only be proc'ed 35% of the time when casting another spell. 65% of the time this won't happen.
7. The 22K requires an empower before casting. You know exactly when it's coming. Empower is responsible for 4-5k (20%) of that damage. Try empowering YOUR attacks and see how you do.
8. People in heavy armor aren't getting hit for 22K.
9. People with high crit resist aren't getting hit for 22K.
10. People with full elemental defender aren't getting hit for 22K.
11. People who dodge, block, or reflect aren't getting hit for 22K.
12. The 22K requires a crit that can only happen 45% of the time or so.

Learn to play and stop crying. Understand the game mechanics before you open your mouth to spout this level of ignorance.

People who whine about things like this really irritate me. Duuuuh! OMG sorc is OP because someone manipulates game mechanics with a weird high damage frag only build with a million different counters.

Who are you? Calling me ignorant and telling me I need to L2P doesn't change the fact that I'm quite well versed in PvP. I don't pretend to be the best player. But I do know what I'm talking about.

Apparently not if you think someone building to hit an undergeared, low CP player for 22K is 'overpowered'.

Fact is you had no idea how he did it, you just pointed at it and cried to the devs.

lol, you are legit unhinged

Well he has a point if you're trying to use Qam's build as an example of OP sorcs lmao. All his points about its counters/weaknesses are all true. Idk the guy, i've seen a few of his vids and just like any 1vXer/small scaler, he's killing baddies with his build, not top players.

Baddies die to good players on any class with any gear setup. Qam just plays his build cause it's how he enjoys it. I've seen Frozy (who is in your guild i think?) 1vX etc. in powerful assault while every other DK out there is running 7th/ravager/alch/fury etc. lol.

Sorcs are OP for sure but crying on the forums spewing crap just makes you look silly.

What's silly is you guys freaking out over my use of QAM's build in response to Dracane's claim that Magplar has superior burst to MagSorc. But don't let derail what is becoming an increasingly colorful thread. Carry on.

Izaki

Autolycus wrote: »

Beardimus wrote: »

I presume you didn't play a MagSorc in 2016? Stamina had their day.

All Mag classes got the 8%, Sorc just got the extra curse in U13, and scamp pulses hardly enough to warrant the QQ. Dual Wield sorcs got a NERF, Overload sorc's got a NERF - or did you miss those?

People that couldn't kill Sorcs in 2016 still cant is all. And most decent players Whack-A-Mole with Sorcs as they always did since the Wards got nerfed to 6 secs.

Try active defence with the sustain changes in U14 and you'll see what I mean. if you are warding you aint attacking and ur burning Magika...

Couldn't disagree more. Sorc pet parses are 4k higher than non-pet parses, and 4k higher than every other magicka parse, period. The only balance to this is the simple fact that pets can't be used on a few bosses due to mechanics. On the pvp side, there is no drawback, particularly of such a drastic nature.

Please define "active defense." A good magicka sorc knows how to properly time a single shield to afford ample time for burst combos. That has been the case forever; those are fundamental Sorc mechanics. In fact, the same is true for any class. It takes only a single well-timed defensive ability to bait your opponent into an offensive, then it's easy to burst when they're off their guard. An active defense would be you standing there doing nothing but ward. Yeah, I guarantee you won't accomplish anything that way. It hardly constitutes an argument against this concept, however.

P.S. Stamina had their day for a fleeting heartbeat. It took them 2 years just to make stam sorcs a real thing. It lasted for a few months, and then went the way of every stam class.

DKs parse as high as Pet Sorcs in Single Target, in fact, they usually parse higher. Remember, in DPS checks Sorcs have easy access to Minor Vulnerability (and off-balance if lightning wall), while DKs don't. In actual raid environments, DK can match a Pet Sorc and outparse, at least from the parses I've seen. Pet Sorc also isn't without inconvinients... Those pets are pretty stupid and they do get rekt or hinder the group at times in certain fights.

But I agree with you on the stam thing. I'm still salty about the fact that my stamblade only lasted for 2 patches in PvE.

Izaki

Kilandros wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Kilandros wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Idinuse wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Completely disagree with everything from OP.
I kill mag Sorcs easier than anything. I think they are the easiest to counter, easiest to burst down and least threatening overall. And Sorcs were waiting for buffsa very long time, we were left in the cold for a very long time until we received (mostly indirect) buffs that everyone can profit from.

Sorcs rarely received anything personal besides nerfs. The only true buffs we have received were pet buffs, that most people don't even want to use. Sorcerer has remained almost untouched since so many updates and most people I encounter know just exactly how to deal with streak and shields in general. You really should calm down.

I so agree with you, in fact for me, I kill Templars easier than anything. Their pathetic stuns they had from Blazing Shield, their ridiculously low hits with RD, even the execute was so easy to counter, so easy to move out of their Jabs. As soon as their arms go up in the air to brainlessly BoL spam, I interrupted and simply face melted them. And yet they received nerf after nerf after nerf, well even more than your Sorc class, I mean those Sorcs you are killing so easily. No, no. Templars have always been the weakest class in the game for me. And Templars have been waiting for buffs, usable passives, and less channeled or cast time skills. But no. They received the hardest nerfs in the game. Again.

And yet they are the easiest kills for me. All my friends and most people know exactly how to neutralize almost anything a Templar can do by now. People really should have calmed down in regards to Templars, now look at the poor souls.

(Btw, as you play a Sorc, I do main a Templar, 5.000+ hours, ridiculous don't you agree?)

But Magicka Templar was considered the strongest by everyone just until recently. They are the most cancerous and immortal class and are the biggest pain to deal with. When fighting a group of enemies, I do not fear the DDs or so. No; i fear nothing but the Templar. In my eyes, it's a completely overpowered class.

Templar hasn't been the PvE or PvP meta for months. Sorcerer has been outperforming every class in both PvP and PvE for nearly 6 months now. It has the highest PvE DPS, the highest vMA scores, and is the most popular class in Cyro.

Strange, all I ever see are DKs and Templars and the Sorcs that I see, I just roll over them and enjoy the free AP.
But really nothing outshines everything as much as Templars do and I know I'm by far not alone with this opinion. Perhaps Forum Warriors are just a different kind of people. But in game people are perfectly aware of it.

I'm aware of the pve dps thing and vMA though. But well, this has nothing to do with pvp really, where Sorc damage, in my opinion, is lackluster unless you are a decent petsorc

I don't know you as a player, but if you're complaining about Sorc damage in PvP I suspect it's a L2P issue (I hate using that). Sorcerer's are far and away the class with the best burst on live.

Hahahahahahaha that's a pretty funny thing to say to like the best pet Sorc on PC EU.

Stamden

Lord_Hev wrote: »

I even tried 50k magic in NO CP, they just do not scale high without being amplified by bastion, as they should. That is the whole point of having the bastion tree.

Bastion shouldn't exist. There is no reason for shields to be so massive in the first place.

I love how it is the norm in this game to have a shield that is the size of your healthbar. As if that is how it is supposed to be. Look at any competitive game and you will notice how careful they are to make shields too overbearing.

Shields should be supplemental. Not some temporary (or in this game, permanent) thing that turns you into a monster with 2x the effective health.

Lord_Hev

Neighbor wrote: »

Lord_Hev wrote: »

I even tried 50k magic in NO CP, they just do not scale high without being amplified by bastion, as they should. That is the whole point of having the bastion tree.

Bastion shouldn't exist. There is no reason for shields to be so massive in the first place.

I love how it is the norm in this game to have a shield that is the size of your healthbar. As if that is how it is supposed to be. Look at any competitive game and you will notice how careful they are to make shields too overbearing.

Shields should be supplemental. Not some temporary (or in this game, permanent) thing that turns you into a monster with 2x the effective health.

The sorc is a squishy thingie underneath the shield-stack that shields their puny health. Bastion has just as much right as existing as does hardy, elemental defender, and tumbling.

Jsmalls

I really don't understand...

As a mSorc I can tell you I'm extremely hard to kill. But it's not like that's not the same for other classes with a good (rather great) player behind it. I had a stamplar absolutely melt be the other day. 1 v 1 my shields were up, and I got annihilated. I also annihilate other mSorcs myself. Great players are hard to kill on ANY class. It's not exclusive to mSorcs...

I'll agree that shieldstacking​ is annoying. But the bad Sorcs that are on the defensive Shieldstacking aren't doing damage. Trust me if your applying pressure those shields go down fast. mSorcs can't roll, can't perma block, can't burst heal, did you want us to roll over and die? Sorry not going down without a fight. Sorry one strategy doesn't work against every class...

BohnT

This thread shows what's wrong with the sorc lobby.
You have the spammers who push out as many wrong facts as they can and repeat them over and over again.
The biased sorcs who bring up bad arguments and often say L2P to everyone who is brave or stupid enough to point out that sorcs are over performing.
Then you have the good sorcs who actually say that there are things which have to be changed and actually make good arguments to balance the game


Sorcs are the best class for pve dps by far nothing comes close. Magdk may have almost the same damage but much worse sustain and have to go meele without a 40k shield they can use in sticky situations.
Dark Deal is the most op skill in the whole game, it has no counterplay to it

yes you can bash it but the animation starts when the skill has .2 sec casttime left. And even when you interrupt the sorc he has no resource penalty unlike other channels or even ultimates looking at you bow ulti.

Shields are one of the best defensive abilities in the game they completely ignore crits making lots of item sets and bonuses and even builds useless. They are like a condom you strap on and they protect you, they actually increase your effective health unlike every other defence.

There is no cost penalty attached to them, no stam recovery while blocking, increasing cost for dodge rolls and there is no direct counterplay to them except for 1!! Friggin set that is a complete piece of crap.
There are skills that ignore block *cough* curse *cough*
There are skills that ignore roll dodges *curse, mages wrath explosion*
There are debuffs for heals 3 of them actually : fasalla, major/ minor defile

Sorc can stay exactly the same as they are now if there are at minimum 5 skills that completely ignore shields accessible for the classes or via guild skill trees.

Stam sorc is a completely different story and needs to be tuned down too as it is arguably even better in pvp than its magicka counterpart.

Aquanova

I'm against nerfing bastion as other Magicka classes benefit from it as well and they aren't a problem. I'd rather ZOS just make hardened ward scale off of max health like the other 2 class shields. This would be fair imo.

I also think that Dark Deal needs an adjustment with all the nerfs to other classes sustain. For 3k Magicka you can get over 4k stam and health on demand? On live this skill is questionable as to it's OPness, on the pts it's a red flag.

KramUzibra

Malamar1229 wrote: »

Kilandros wrote: »

Malamar1229 wrote: »

Kilandros wrote: »

I'm not saying that. But you appear to be so blinded by class bias that it's almost absurd. Go watch some of Qaevir's Sorcerer videos where he hits people with 20k Frags and tell me that Sorcerer damage is inadequate in PvP. Sorcerers can build for full offense and still have terrific defense thanks to Shields scaling off of max Magicka. Literally no other class can do that. Is Templar is a great class? Yes. Does Templar have as much burst in PvP as a Sorcerer? LOL no.

This statement is what is wrong with these forums. You get a small handful of payers posting video of potato farming and everyone thinks a class is OP. I used to do it as well. QAM will gladly come on here and tell you he has weaknesses in his build. He is specifically built for high damage frags, use a reflect...slot harness, slot an absorb. Grab Miats Pvp cheat Addon like everyone else.

I have never been obliterated by a 22k frag that wasn't my fault. Potato farming happens because players who are unaware of their surroundings, who lemming themselves into situations that allow for us to make videos like that.

My point was clearly to demonstrate that Sorcerer is capable of top burst. If you disagree with that, please show me a 22k Flame Lash. All classes have limitations and all classes excel against bad players. But if you go back a couple of posts you'll see that I'm responding to Dracane's argument that Sorcerer's have poor damage in PvP. That is just blatantly wrong. I used QAM's build as an example of how extreme Sorc damage actually is.

Not every class should be brought on par with one another. This is an AvA game that encourages grouping not solo play. That's your problem. You all keep trying to balance around 1v1. Wrong game.

QAM has a high magicka pool and low regen. Throw on stam poison and go at it. These guys don't post videos of them dying but they die just like the rest of us. 99% of the time I die, it was my fault. I had a 40-something kill streak the last time I was in Cyrodiil and it absolutely wasn't because I am OP. It's because I killed bad players that did stupid things. So I guess I should be nerfed into the ground, again, because I outplayed them.

Sorcs are op because they are able to Achieve top dps, with high sustain, great mobility, literally Impenetrable Defenses, and they can do it from a distance or up close you can have all these great benefits in one built... please tell me what sorcs weaknesses are so maybe my medium Stam Dk will have a fighting chance.

Fexelea

This is sample data to explain the current timeline you're in.

2014: "Sorcs OP - NERF THEM!"
Zenimax: "Ok" = nerfs sorc

2015: "Sorcs OP - NERF THEM!"
Zenimax: "Ok" = nerfs sorc

2016: "Sorcs OP - NERF THEM!"
Zenimax: "Ok" = nerfs sorc

2017: "Sorcs OP - NERF THEM!" << YOU ARE HERE
Zenimax: tbd

2018: Stay tuned...

* There are several dozen links not included in this short demonstration