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Official Discussion Thread for Crown Crates

  • VerboseQuips
    VerboseQuips
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    It seems like a lot of people are angry about the drop chance of the cool stuff in crown crates. Why not also have some daily quests that reward crown crates? It makes it so people who are angry about earning items only from buying the crates can play the game to also earn them but if they cannot earn wait to get that really cool mount they will still buy them. it makes it so the amount of gems you now get on pts feels more reasonable and people cant complain about having exclusive items in the crown crates.

    Dungeon crawler network community member

    ~esoendgame

    In theory, to begin with, khajiit she sees the appeal of the idea and possibly it is the only sort of compromise we might ever possibly get on these boxes of horror.

    However this one she has reservations about the crates being given away in any form - either as quest rewards or to ESO plus payers. The reason for this is that this one she does not want any player to get used to the crates or start getting used the buzz of opening them and then feel they just can't do without more of the same.

    Give a few sweeties away for free and they start craving more of the same yes? A few little treats to draw them closer.

    It is what the dealers of dubious substances do to bring in long term business.

    If you understand what khajiit she means here yes?

    Yours with paws
    Santie Claws

    And this is maybe why they are letting us "beta-test" a feature that is already, obviously, virtually bug free and more polished and better executed than quite a number of in-game features that are already on live.

    It will be harder for those who had a storm wolf on test to lose it on live, won't it?
    My characters:
    Main and crafter: A Breton magicka templar named Erwann Sorril
    Alt 1: A Bosmer sorcerer named Tuuneleg
    Alt 2: An Imperial dragonknight named Gaius Tullius Hastifer
    Alt 3: An Argonian vampire/nightblade named Observe-le-Xanmeer
    Alt 4: A Nord werewolf/dragonknight named Sigurd Hurlevent
    Alt 5: A Breton sorcerer named Gilian Sorril (he's Erwann's younger brother)
    Alt 6: A Khajiit nightblade named Jolan-dar
    Alt 7: A Nord warden named Sigurmar Hurlevent (he's Sigurd's younger brother)
    Alt 8: An Altmer templar named Oioriel
    Alt 9: An Argonian stamina Warden named Danse-avec-les-Rainettes
    Alt 10: A Redguard templar named Neemokh af-Corelanya
    Alt 11: A Nord stamina sorcerer named Olga Écoute-Vent
    Alt 12: A Breton magicka Warden named Ian Sorril
    Main in NA (For collaborative events): A Breton magicka nightblade named Titouan Sorril (long-lost brother of Erwann and Gilian)
  • Khenarthi
    Khenarthi
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    It seems like a lot of people are angry about the drop chance of the cool stuff in crown crates. Why not also have some daily quests that reward crown crates? It makes it so people who are angry about earning items only from buying the crates can play the game to also earn them but if they cannot earn wait to get that really cool mount they will still buy them. it makes it so the amount of gems you now get on pts feels more reasonable and people cant complain about having exclusive items in the crown crates.

    Dungeon crawler network community member

    ~esoendgame

    In theory, to begin with, khajiit she sees the appeal of the idea and possibly it is the only sort of compromise we might ever possibly get on these boxes of horror.

    However this one she has reservations about the crates being given away in any form - either as quest rewards or to ESO plus payers. The reason for this is that this one she does not want any player to get used to the crates or start getting used the buzz of opening them and then feel they just can't do without more of the same.

    Give a few sweeties away for free and they start craving more of the same yes? A few little treats to draw them closer.

    It is what the dealers of dubious substances do to bring in long term business.

    If you understand what khajiit she means here yes?

    Yours with paws
    Santie Claws

    i know exactly what you mean. i did read the article aggelos posted in our discord about "whales" who are people who spend enormous amounts of money on stuff like this because they become addicted. But i was thinking of another game that i like to play where there are lockboxes and you get them by leveling up or you can buy them.

    Even with free crates, you'd get a ton of crap and unusable things you would not have bought in a million years. I got 4 days worth of free pts crates (to a value of over 20.000 crowns) and none of the things which dropped so far are things I'd use. I got the black dog pet some 5 times already...

    Just don't make the low to mid tiers crate exclusive, and many people will complain much less - I know the exclusivity of the non- storm mount things is my one complaint about it.
    Edited by Khenarthi on September 23, 2016 1:17PM
    PC-EU @Khenarthi - Ahnissi, Khenessi, Khenarri, Runavirr, Ihnissa, J'Zanna, Avalissa, Elinorre, Ahzor, Ahzaj, Zarrum, Jakhaj, Ahnissa, Ihnessa (all Khajiit)

    PC-EU @Khenarthi2 - Eralyon, Othernor, Hums-Softly, Eldric of Kynesgrove, Revan Norvayn, Elena Sunspear, Balsemina, Glarthka gra-Margog (all non-Khajiit)

    Don't assume that high CP means I'm any good... I just quest a lot.
  • WhiteCoatSyndrome
    WhiteCoatSyndrome
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    ✭✭
    It seems like a lot of people are angry about the drop chance of the cool stuff in crown crates. Why not also have some daily quests that reward crown crates? It makes it so people who are angry about earning items only from buying the crates can play the game to also earn them but if they cannot earn wait to get that really cool mount they will still buy them. it makes it so the amount of gems you now get on pts feels more reasonable and people cant complain about having exclusive items in the crown crates.

    I believe there are legal ramifications to allowing something they charge real money for to drop for 'free.' (Not ILLEGAL necessarily, just different laws than only selling the thing.) Hence the habit of other games that drop Crate-equivalents in the game to then have a key you have to buy to open them. I don't believe that's something they can therefore swap on a whim, although someone with more experience in these things may correct me on that.

    More practically anything that can be farmed, will be farmed, and if we've taught Zenimax nothing else we've definitely taught them that. :p
    #proud2BAStarObsessedLoony
    PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates!
    A useful explanation for how RNG works
  • Theryl
    Theryl
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    After reading this thread, I think I should have invested in tinfoil futures.

    Opened a round of crates last night and got pretty lucky - atronach guar, red wolf mount and pet, and a hat. The problem is, the only one of those that I'd ever use is the hat (and maybe the red wolf puppy.) Aside from that I got stacks of consumables I don't need, a couple of body modifications for races I don't play, and 10 gems from duplicates.

    I don't see the value proposition. The consumables are essentially useless to anyone with a provisioner or alchemist. The hat is nice, but I wouldn't spend 5000 crowns on it. And the gem conversion ratio is too poor to be much use.

    In the other MMOs I've played, loot crates are either a point sink for long term/lifetime subscribers who don't have anything better to buy with their points or offer a way to sell/buy/trade putting unwanted items using the auction house. The current system doesn't offer either of those options. As currently implemented, the Crown Crate system doesn't offer any value to me.
  • Sapeterson16ub17_ESO
    Sapeterson16ub17_ESO
    Soul Shriven
    It seems like a lot of people are angry about the drop chance of the cool stuff in crown crates. Why not also have some daily quests that reward crown crates? It makes it so people who are angry about earning items only from buying the crates can play the game to also earn them but if they cannot earn wait to get that really cool mount they will still buy them. it makes it so the amount of gems you now get on pts feels more reasonable and people cant complain about having exclusive items in the crown crates.

    I believe there are legal ramifications to allowing something they charge real money for to drop for 'free.' (Not ILLEGAL necessarily, just different laws than only selling the thing.) Hence the habit of other games that drop Crate-equivalents in the game to then have a key you have to buy to open them. I don't believe that's something they can therefore swap on a whim, although someone with more experience in these things may correct me on that.

    More practically anything that can be farmed, will be farmed, and if we've taught Zenimax nothing else we've definitely taught them that. :p

    No they are allowed to do that. Look at games like overwatch. ( not sure if I'm allowed to mention another game kinda new to forums) but you can level up there and get crates or you can buy them. It's all cosmetics and let's be honest we will only get the crates for the cosmetic items currently. Just looking for a free way to also get crates for playing the game and now throw hundreds of dollars at something you might not get. And touché people here farm lol

    ~esoendgame
  • silvereyes
    silvereyes
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    Abeille wrote: »
    silvereyes wrote: »
    As a silent protest of the upcoming Crown Crates, I am eschewing all Crown Store mounts, pets, and cosmetics. From now on, I choose to ride only the ugliest in-game horse I can find. ;)

    I love that horse :(

    My crafter rides it since two weeks after launch or so.
    Sorry to offend. It's not a bad horse at all. I'm growing to like it more and more. It was the only mount I hadn't bought yet, though, so to me, it was the least of the 4.

    There aren't any really ugly mounts to choose from in-game. I wish there were. If they had an ogrim or even a pink My Little Pony, I'd be riding it right now.
    Edited by silvereyes on September 23, 2016 1:57PM
  • silvereyes
    silvereyes
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    Mystery boxes! Ah no but the boxes they rightly make people unhappy and feel a bit cheated yes - quite cheated indeed.
    I predict a standard ZOS cheating response:
    • Ignore the problem for months or years, even with troves of youtube videos detailing the problem
    • Soft ban the crates from the store for 3 days
    • Make some small ninja changes to the servers
    • Bring the crates back and act as if the problem is solved
  • Caff32
    Caff32
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    I opened 26 more Crown Crates over the last two days, amounting to 10,400 Crowns (19,600 Crowns spent total in 4 days). Here’s the unappealing haul:

    Consumables (49 Crate total):
    Tri-Resto Potions 45 (85)
    Warrior Elixirs 50 (110)
    Spellcaster Elixirs 35 (65)
    Survivor Elixirs 25 (80)
    Invisibility Potions 60 (80)
    Lethal Poisons 175 (425)
    6 Mimic Stones (10)
    4 Riding Speed Lesson (5)
    4 Riding Capacity Lesson (5)
    1 Riding Stamina Lesson (1)
    2 Experience Scroll (3)
    2 Crown Repair Kit (5)
    3 Crown Meal (4)
    4 Crown Drinks (6)
    2 SOUL GEMS !?!?!?!?!

    Non-Consumables:
    Mind Shriven Horse
    Tangerine Dragonfrog Pet
    Feathered Cap
    Brilliance Robes
    Clouded Senche Mount
    Storm Atro Aura Momento
    Helstrom Lizard Pet

    Duplicate Items = 128 Gems (182 Gem total)

    Only items I care about: Clouded Senche Mount & Storm Atro Camel (but it's still a camel!)

    So I've spent a grand total of 19,600 Crowns and received 3 mounts and a bunch of fashion collectibles/pets that I don't need or want, and so many consumables that I REALLY don't need or want. The soul gems are the biggest troll however.

    This system is so broken. In essence, I spent 9,800 crowns for two mounts. I understand that I received more stuff than that but the overwhelming majority of stuff are consumables. I would use none of the items, momentos, or consumables. So it's really not worth my effort to spend that much money to get a mount, one of which I only mildly like (the camel).

    Again, the easiest solution is to have an option to convert what we receive into gems instead of collecting it and to give more gems per item converted. Many more people would be interested in this system if those changes were made, IMO.
    Edited by Caff32 on September 23, 2016 2:52PM
  • Khenarthi
    Khenarthi
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    Caff32 wrote: »
    I opened 26 more Crown Crates over the last two days, amounting to 10,400 Crowns (19,600 Crowns spent total in 4 days). Here’s the unappealing haul:

    Consumables (49 Crate total):
    Tri-Resto Potions 45 (85)
    Warrior Elixirs 50 (110)
    Spellcaster Elixirs 35 (65)
    Survivor Elixirs 25 (80)
    Invisibility Potions 60 (80)
    Lethal Poisons 175 (425)
    6 Mimic Stones (10)
    4 Riding Speed Lesson (5)
    4 Riding Capacity Lesson (5)
    1 Riding Stamina Lesson (1)
    2 Experience Scroll (3)
    2 Crown Repair Kit (5)
    3 Crown Meal (4)
    4 Crown Drinks (6)
    2 SOUL GEMS !?!?!?!?!

    Non-Consumables:
    Mind Shriven Horse
    Tangerine Dragonfrog Pet
    Feathered Cap
    Brilliance Robes
    Clouded Senche Mount
    Storm Atro Aura Momento
    Helstrom Lizard Pet

    Duplicate Items = 128 Gems (182 Gem total)

    Only items I care about: Clouded Senche Mount & Storm Atro Camel (but it's still a camel!)

    So I've spent a grand total of 19,600 Crowns and received 3 mounts and a bunch of fashion collectibles/pets that I don't need or want, and so many consumables that I REALLY don't need or want. The soul gems are the biggest troll however.

    This system is so broken. In essence, I spent 9,800 crowns for two mounts. I understand that I received more stuff than that but the overwhelming majority of stuff are consumables. I would use none of the items, momentos, or consumables. So it's really not worth my effort to spend that much money to get a mount, one of which I only mildly like (the camel).

    Again, the easiest solution is to have an option to convert what we receive into gems instead of collecting it and to give more gems per item converted. Many more people would be interested in this system if those changes were made, IMO.

    I could get onboard with this: if all unwanted items could be converted to gems, effectively by buying a crate for 400 crowns I'd get a number of gems plus a chance of getting something I'd actually keep. One would need to know how many gems per crate though, because I'm not still convinced of the value for money of a crate being equal to, say, 20 gems... for either a clouded senche mount or the purple nixad which cost 100 gems we'd need 5 crates which cost 2000 crowns (ok for a mount, but over the top for a pet).
    PC-EU @Khenarthi - Ahnissi, Khenessi, Khenarri, Runavirr, Ihnissa, J'Zanna, Avalissa, Elinorre, Ahzor, Ahzaj, Zarrum, Jakhaj, Ahnissa, Ihnessa (all Khajiit)

    PC-EU @Khenarthi2 - Eralyon, Othernor, Hums-Softly, Eldric of Kynesgrove, Revan Norvayn, Elena Sunspear, Balsemina, Glarthka gra-Margog (all non-Khajiit)

    Don't assume that high CP means I'm any good... I just quest a lot.
  • silvereyes
    silvereyes
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    silvereyes wrote: »
    The crown crates are trying to turn the crown store into a collectible card game.... Magic: The Gathering works similarly. Mana cards = trash consumables. Packs = black boxes with RNG determining which cards you get.
    One thing I'd like to point out to ZOS is that MTG boosters come in packs of 8-16 for less than the cost of crown crates and have guaranteed slots for uncommon and rare items. Food for thought if you are following that model.
    Edited by silvereyes on September 23, 2016 3:19PM
  • Slurg
    Slurg
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    ✭✭
    .
    silvereyes wrote: »
    silvereyes wrote: »
    The crown crates are trying to turn the crown store into a collectible card game.... Magic: The Gathering works similarly. Mana cards = trash consumables. Packs = black boxes with RNG determining which cards you get.
    One thing I'd like to point out to ZOS is that MTG boosters come in packs of 8-16 for less than the cost of crown crates and have guaranteed slots for uncommon and rare items. Food for thought if you are following that model.

    If they were interested in following that model you'd be able to sell or trade the cards you didn't want for ones you did.
    Happy All the Holidays To You and Yours!
    Remembering better days of less RNG in all the things.
  • manavortex
    manavortex
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    Keep making a great game, do great things like the festival quests that are social and the players enjoy. Players will come back, they will spend money in the store because the game makes them feel happy and they are getting something for their coin, their friends are happy and they feel happy in their investment in the world. They feel like value has been had for the money.

    I really like this alternative business model. It was what kept me giving ZOS money, happily.
    I've cancelled both of my subs for now. Will not leave the game, but they're not going to get another euro from me as long as they keep this up.
    Stop Zanil Theran's sinister plot to exterminate bank space! Give ESO+ subscribers a virtual Furniture Bag!
  • Vrath
    Vrath
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    The Crown Crates they are not making one feel like they are getting value for the price they paid. This is an issue that needs to be addressed. Consumables that are junk does not represent value to most players; that is the truth in addition to the issue of storing them. Players will end up destroying them or not buying crown crates due to this. Something needs to be done about this if these are to have any chance of being successful with repeat buyers.

    The key to the system is having the users feel like they are receiving value, which is what ZOS has failed to grasp it seems. If the experience is rewarding to the player they will then keep coming back for more and continue the revenue stream, which the current implementation is not.

    Suggestions:
    1. Lower the cost of gem items or increase gem amount per duplicate - most will be using gems as their target as it is a visible goal, while hoping RNG might give them the drop they want. No questions asked this has to be done.
    2. Include Gems in the card drops something like 30 gem card, something that makes the player excited to receive.
    3. Create a Wildcard with a .001 drop rate, it is worth 500 gems or get any item card - make it rare, the golden ticket get whatever you want from this set.
    4. Do something about the common drops no one wants most of the consumables. Using something most people do not value at all will essentially guarantee that when the player has bad RNG run across multiple crates they will feel like they got screwed, cheated and will be less likely to come back to buy more. This will always happen some with RNG involved but if the common items have some value and/or use to players it lessens that sting. Otherwise this alone will turn players off to never make another purchase,
    5. Include Name Change, Appearance Change, Race Change - players value these and they can bank them. It might not excite a player but it is useful, useful is good.
    6. Think as players ZOS we've seen you playing the game, would you as players purchase these crates as they currently stand? Find the middle ground of what makes a player feel like they received value before releasing these.
  • Moloch1514
    Moloch1514
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    Hi everyone, here’s where we are with Crown Crates:

    We put systems on the PTS for player feedback for a reason – we have sifted (and continue to analyze) your feedback on Crown Crates, and as such, we’re going to make at least the following changes to the system before it goes live later this year:
    • We are working to change the way the system works to ensure that you get higher tiered items more often.
    • We will allow you to convert unwanted Crown Crate consumables into Crown Gems. This way, you won’t be stuck with consumables you may not want, and you will also have more Gems to purchase the items that you do want.
    • We will also take another look at Crown Crate potions, food, XP scrolls, etc. with an eye towards boosting their effectiveness and/or duration. This may entail us adding new recipes to allow crafters to make similar items.
    We may well find other changes we want to make as well, and will let everyone know what we have done when this initial round of changes are in and can test them internally.

    Thanks @ZOS_GinaBruno! I like the 2nd bullet point!
    PC-NA
  • hrothbern
    hrothbern
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    Hi everyone, here’s where we are with Crown Crates:

    We put systems on the PTS for player feedback for a reason – we have sifted (and continue to analyze) your feedback on Crown Crates, and as such, we’re going to make at least the following changes to the system before it goes live later this year:
    • We are working to change the way the system works to ensure that you get higher tiered items more often.
    • We will allow you to convert unwanted Crown Crate consumables into Crown Gems. This way, you won’t be stuck with consumables you may not want, and you will also have more Gems to purchase the items that you do want.
    • We will also take another look at Crown Crate potions, food, XP scrolls, etc. with an eye towards boosting their effectiveness and/or duration. This may entail us adding new recipes to allow crafters to make similar items.
    We may well find other changes we want to make as well, and will let everyone know what we have done when this initial round of changes are in and can test them internally.

    I hope the size of those steps return enough Crown Gems to make it viable

    Consider adding trading cards between players as well....
    like, long time ago for my kids, Pokemon cards
    "I still do not understand why I followed the advice of Captain Rana to bring the villagers of Bleakrock into safety. We should have fought for our village and not have backed down, with our tail between our legs.
    Now my home village is in shambles, the houses burning, the invaders feasting.
    I swear every day to Shor that after Molag Bal has been defeated, I will hunt down the invaders and restore peace in Bleakrock and drink my mead with my friends at the market place".
  • Lumenn
    Lumenn
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    wayfarerx wrote: »
    Hi everyone, here’s where we are with Crown Crates:

    We put systems on the PTS for player feedback for a reason – we have sifted (and continue to analyze) your feedback on Crown Crates, and as such, we’re going to make at least the following changes to the system before it goes live later this year:
    Thank you for responding Gina, we need more input from ZOS on highly controversial topics like this.
    • We are working to change the way the system works to ensure that you get higher tiered items more often.
    While a good step, failing to publish the actual drop rates means this will forever be less reliable than gambling on a slot machine, and those are about the worst of the worst when it comes to transparency in gambling.
    • We will allow you to convert unwanted Crown Crate consumables into Crown Gems. This way, you won’t be stuck with consumables you may not want, and you will also have more Gems to purchase the items that you do want.
    I'm genuinely surprised that you are considering this, it's a good step in at least trying to make deterministic guess about what a crown crate item will really cost. I worry though because...
    • We will also take another look at Crown Crate potions, food, XP scrolls, etc. with an eye towards boosting their effectiveness and/or duration. This may entail us adding new recipes to allow crafters to make similar items.
    Ah, here there be dragons. You guys have put yourself in a bit of a catch-22 here. Crown consumables need to be less desirable than in-game ones to avoid being pay-to-win... but if they are completely undesirable then they are nothing but stand-ins for the gems you get for refunding them. Tread carefully here.
    We may well find other changes we want to make as well, and will let everyone know what we have done when this initial round of changes are in and can test them internally.
    #SavePacrooti please.

    Simple solution to the "dragons". They create better recipes, but drop rates are absurdly low. They EXIST for crafters, but it's so rare the suped potions etc are a plus. Same with other consumables in or added to the crates(i.e. crafting mats become more common in gambling crates than actually drop in the game....) It's the frst concern I have with this anyway....
    Edited by Lumenn on September 23, 2016 5:20PM
  • jedtb16_ESO
    jedtb16_ESO
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    ✭✭
    Hi everyone, here’s where we are with Crown Crates:

    We put systems on the PTS for player feedback for a reason – we have sifted (and continue to analyze) your feedback on Crown Crates, and as such, we’re going to make at least the following changes to the system before it goes live later this year:
    • We are working to change the way the system works to ensure that you get higher tiered items more often.
    • We will allow you to convert unwanted Crown Crate consumables into Crown Gems. This way, you won’t be stuck with consumables you may not want, and you will also have more Gems to purchase the items that you do want.
    • We will also take another look at Crown Crate potions, food, XP scrolls, etc. with an eye towards boosting their effectiveness and/or duration. This may entail us adding new recipes to allow crafters to make similar items.
    We may well find other changes we want to make as well, and will let everyone know what we have done when this initial round of changes are in and can test them internally.

    new recipes you say?

    dare i say i now feel i'm being bribed?

    #completistprovisioner
    pc eu eso+

    paraphrasing soren kierkegaard.... when we look at the forum all we can do is laugh.
  • MarkusLiberty
    MarkusLiberty
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    I'm willing to guess that the only Crown Box exclusive are the themed mounts collections. Several of the new mounts and pets found in these boxes will likely be releassed in the weeks prior to the crates, like the new Lion.

    At least the top tire mounts are unique, and not just retextures. While I wont be aiming for those specifically, I would still love to get one.

    And great update, this is starting to sound a bit more manageable
    *Special Snowflake*

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