Official Discussion Thread for Crown Crates

MissBizz

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hi everyone, here’s where we are with Crown Crates:

We put systems on the PTS for player feedback for a reason – we have sifted (and continue to analyze) your feedback on Crown Crates, and as such, we’re going to make at least the following changes to the system before it goes live later this year:

• We are working to change the way the system works to ensure that you get higher tiered items more often.
• We will allow you to convert unwanted Crown Crate consumables into Crown Gems. This way, you won’t be stuck with consumables you may not want, and you will also have more Gems to purchase the items that you do want.
• We will also take another look at Crown Crate potions, food, XP scrolls, etc. with an eye towards boosting their effectiveness and/or duration. This may entail us adding new recipes to allow crafters to make similar items.

We may well find other changes we want to make as well, and will let everyone know what we have done when this initial round of changes are in and can test them internally.

Thank you very much @ZOS_GinaBruno for coming to let us know what changes are coming, and that you are considering more. This certainly is a step in the right direction but I feel one often heard complaint has still not been touched on. Could you please clarify what exactly in our PTS crates in exclusive to crates? Many folks are not interested in gambling and worry that an extremely large amount of items will be exclusive with the crates, making it feel (whether true or not) that the crown store won't get "quality" updates, rather, nice items will always head to these crates.

I realize you mentioned already that the team is working on a way to relay this information to the player in a much clearer fashion, but it would be a big step to just state what is exclusive vs not exclusive until they get something clearer in place.

FLuFFyxMuFFiN

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hi everyone, here’s where we are with Crown Crates:

We put systems on the PTS for player feedback for a reason – we have sifted (and continue to analyze) your feedback on Crown Crates, and as such, we’re going to make at least the following changes to the system before it goes live later this year:

• We are working to change the way the system works to ensure that you get higher tiered items more often.
• We will allow you to convert unwanted Crown Crate consumables into Crown Gems. This way, you won’t be stuck with consumables you may not want, and you will also have more Gems to purchase the items that you do want.
• We will also take another look at Crown Crate potions, food, XP scrolls, etc. with an eye towards boosting their effectiveness and/or duration. This may entail us adding new recipes to allow crafters to make similar items.

We may well find other changes we want to make as well, and will let everyone know what we have done when this initial round of changes are in and can test them internally.

Thank you! My biggest complaint was not being able to convert consumables to gems and now that I will be able to do that I am more likely to buy these crates more often

Kendaric

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hi everyone, here’s where we are with Crown Crates:

We put systems on the PTS for player feedback for a reason – we have sifted (and continue to analyze) your feedback on Crown Crates, and as such, we’re going to make at least the following changes to the system before it goes live later this year:

• We are working to change the way the system works to ensure that you get higher tiered items more often.
• We will allow you to convert unwanted Crown Crate consumables into Crown Gems. This way, you won’t be stuck with consumables you may not want, and you will also have more Gems to purchase the items that you do want.
• We will also take another look at Crown Crate potions, food, XP scrolls, etc. with an eye towards boosting their effectiveness and/or duration. This may entail us adding new recipes to allow crafters to make similar items.

We may well find other changes we want to make as well, and will let everyone know what we have done when this initial round of changes are in and can test them internally.

While those are good first steps, they do nothing for those of us who do not want certain collectibles.
It's less the unwanted consumables I am concerned about (as I can delete them from my inventory) than the collectibles. Getting a collectible you don't want or can't use (e.g. argonian adornments) is incredibly annoying as we're stuck with them. We need to either be able to convert them into gems or delete them from our collection.

Edit: It also fails to address the issue that far too many items are crate exclusive. Most of us will buy what collectibles are offered in the store but we do not gamble.

Enodoc

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

• We will allow you to convert unwanted Crown Crate consumables into Crown Gems. This way, you won’t be stuck with consumables you may not want, and you will also have more Gems to purchase the items that you do want.

It would be good if you would also consider allowing us to exchange unwanted Collectibles as well, but perhaps there would need to be a limit on how many Gems you could get through that in a certain period, and it would have to return less Gems than you get for a duplicate.

wayfarerx wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

We may well find other changes we want to make as well, and will let everyone know what we have done when this initial round of changes are in and can test them internally.

#SavePacrooti please.

Should be relatively easily done. In the short term, remove the dialogue where he says his name. In the long term, record some new dialogue with a new character name.

Acrolas

Too little too late to save face.

But I am enjoying the notion that a *** storm went down in the office in the past 24 hours.
Dare say, a *** storm atronach... *puts on lore-breaking goggles*

Akwila

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hi everyone, here’s where we are with Crown Crates:

We put systems on the PTS for player feedback for a reason – we have sifted (and continue to analyze) your feedback on Crown Crates, and as such, we’re going to make at least the following changes to the system before it goes live later this year:

• We are working to change the way the system works to ensure that you get higher tiered items more often.
• We will allow you to convert unwanted Crown Crate consumables into Crown Gems. This way, you won’t be stuck with consumables you may not want, and you will also have more Gems to purchase the items that you do want.
• We will also take another look at Crown Crate potions, food, XP scrolls, etc. with an eye towards boosting their effectiveness and/or duration. This may entail us adding new recipes to allow crafters to make similar items.

We may well find other changes we want to make as well, and will let everyone know what we have done when this initial round of changes are in and can test them internally.

DO NOT MAKE CROWN CONSUMABLES ON PAR OR BETTER THAN CRAFTED ITEMS. YOU SKIRT THE PAY TO WIN LINE FAR TOO CLOSE. CAPS BECAUSE I AM FULL OF FEELS ON THIS.

Cousin_Idirfa

wayfarerx wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hi everyone, here’s where we are with Crown Crates:

We put systems on the PTS for player feedback for a reason – we have sifted (and continue to analyze) your feedback on Crown Crates, and as such, we’re going to make at least the following changes to the system before it goes live later this year:

Thank you for responding Gina, we need more input from ZOS on highly controversial topics like this.

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

• We are working to change the way the system works to ensure that you get higher tiered items more often.

While a good step, failing to publish the actual drop rates means this will forever be less reliable than gambling on a slot machine, and those are about the worst of the worst when it comes to transparency in gambling.

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

• We will allow you to convert unwanted Crown Crate consumables into Crown Gems. This way, you won’t be stuck with consumables you may not want, and you will also have more Gems to purchase the items that you do want.

I'm genuinely surprised that you are considering this, it's a good step in at least trying to make deterministic guess about what a crown crate item will really cost. I worry though because...

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

• We will also take another look at Crown Crate potions, food, XP scrolls, etc. with an eye towards boosting their effectiveness and/or duration. This may entail us adding new recipes to allow crafters to make similar items.

Ah, here there be dragons. You guys have put yourself in a bit of a catch-22 here. Crown consumables need to be less desirable than in-game ones to avoid being pay-to-win... but if they are completely undesirable then they are nothing but stand-ins for the gems you get for refunding them. Tread carefully here.

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

We may well find other changes we want to make as well, and will let everyone know what we have done when this initial round of changes are in and can test them internally.

#SavePacrooti please.

Therein lies the dragon indeed. This shows that you are not giving up on the gambling crates, and if the items aren't useful enough, then the logical step is making them more useful. It becomes less about what players can make or do in game and more about what we can get in the cash shop. This is an example of the slippery slope that Firor himself said in the mmorpg.com article that we were overreacting about. We appreciate the communication, and we appreciate that you're listening, but I will echo the sentiment of @wayfarerx . Tread carefully here.

Rohamad_Ali

Acrolas wrote: »

Too little too late to save face.

But I am enjoying the notion that a *** storm went down in the office in the past 24 hours.
Dare say, a *** storm atronach... *puts on lore-breaking goggles*

Lore breaking goggles hahaha

wayfarerx

Enodoc wrote: »

wayfarerx wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

We may well find other changes we want to make as well, and will let everyone know what we have done when this initial round of changes are in and can test them internally.

#SavePacrooti please.

Should be relatively easily done. In the short term, remove the dialogue where he says his name. In the long term, record some new dialogue with a new character name.

This is literally all they would need to do to make me happy, er happy about the NPC at least. Just paste the voice actor saying "this one" over when he says "Pacrooti" and boom, all done.

Slurg

I appreciate that Gina and the rest of the team are trying to be responsive here. I really do. But this does not go far enough to answer questions.

1. Will drop rates be published?
2. Will non-crate themed new items be exclusive to the crates as well or will we still be allowed to purchase them directly?
3. Will the conversion rate for trading in unwanted consumables be a fair one?
4. Why can't people trade cosmetic items they don't want?

Introducing a whole set of new recipe grinds on crafters solely to justify the stronger crown store consumables is nasty but very much expected. Clearly you guys are completely invested in forcing gambling crates on the player base and I do not expect that you will make it anything less than an industrial grade pain to acquire the new recipes.

I just want to state that I do not care how much you try to entice me to gamble for the cosmetic items I want. I will not do it. If I can't buy things I want directly you will lose sales. As I have said before I will not buy all the things I don't want in order to get the things I do want.

Edit: I already see the "oh thank you so much for listening now I will buy crates" posts coming out. Please don't exploit these people. Provide all the information about drop rates and gem conversion before you put these infernal things on the live server so people know what they are really buying.

SilentFox22

Could always beef up world bosses and anchors with Tamriel One and have them drop these boxes as rare treasure - eliminating crown $tore as the only means to aquire them.

silvereyes

One thing I would mention is that on PTS, there is a new great non-crate crown store mount: the alliance horse. I would argue it's actually the best of the new mounts. So there's hope.

All the glowy crap in the game is getting ridiculous as it is. I loved the dro'mathra senche when it came out, but you can't go anywhere without seeing one anymore. The storm atro mounts and their datamined cousins for future crates are 10x worse imo. It's starting to look like the Las Vegas strip.

Moloch1514

SilentFox22 wrote: »

Could always beef up world bosses and anchors with Tamriel One and have them drop these boxes as rare treasure - eliminating crown $tore as the only means to aquire them.

Then they will sell keys to open those dropped crates for 300 crowns, and this will be a F2P game ala Neverwinter! Slippery slope indeed!

Khenarthi

I'll reserve judgement on the upcoming changes until I know exactly what they are, but if I cannot return an unwanted collectible (argonian adornment, pet dog, horse recolour...) I still won't participate. My crowns remain unspent... which means I won't be topping them up periodically for more shiny things.

JKorr

Slurg wrote: »

I appreciate that Gina and the rest of the team are trying to be responsive here. I really do. But this does not go far enough to answer questions.

1. Will drop rates be published?
2. Will non-crate themed new items be exclusive to the crates as well or will we still be allowed to purchase them directly?
3. Will the conversion rate for trading in unwanted consumables be a fair one?
4. Why can't people trade cosmetic items they don't want?

Introducing a whole set of new recipe grinds on crafters solely to justify the stronger crown store consumables is nasty but very much expected. Clearly you guys are completely invested in forcing this on the player base and I do not expect that you will make it anything less than an industrial grade pain to acquire the new recipes.

I just want to state that I do not care how much you try to entice me to gamble for the cosmetic items I want. I will not do it. If I can't buy them directly you will lose sales.

Agreed.

@ZOS_GinaBruno , kind of sucks the office suits can't go back on the "we will never have items in the crown store better than what players can craft", isn't it. Really makes me wonder if *anyone* was buying the crown store food/drinks. From the numbers showing up in the crates, I'm going to go with "no".

Instead of adding better recipes that will add a grind for crafters *solely* because of the rngesus boxes, why not get rid of the "consumables" no one wants? Really, unless you have a new character, or are a new player, the riding skill scrolls, the experience boosters are all useless and rather pointless. I have a maxed provisioner; its why I don't want the consumables. Having to grind to get new recipes, especially when I don't do trials or pvp isn't going to make me feel better about the boxes. Quite the opposite.

As it stands now, I'm still not attempting to get items I really do want by gambling for them. I've hunted for nirn and refined raw mats for tempers too much to trust the rng gremlins in this game. I would be willing to pay outright for two of the old limited mounts, and probably buy two of the upcoming ones. Keeping them in the gambling boxes is not going to get ZOS my money.

Cousin_Idirfa

At PAX West, I heard several comments from the Devs on the panels alluding to wanting to build a long-term player base. If your mission statement is to cultivate a loyal player base that sticks around for the long term, then this move is obviously not going to achieve that. This is more of a slash and burn approach, as most of the loyal players (like myself) see this as a sleazy way to try and juice more money out of the players who have been already supporting the game by buying the collectibles.

I've been subbed since launch on PC. When the game went B2P, I kept my ESO+ and have bought hundreds of extra dollars in crowns, not only because I like collectibles, but because I love the game and want to support it. Locking the collectibles behind gambling crates and forcing us to pay for a chance to get the item we want instead of a set price for a set item is a sleazy move. I'm interpreting it as a bag-over-the-head punch-to-the-face betrayal.

It seems you're gambling on the money from the crates being more than what you're getting or could get from loyal players. But at what cost? I'm seeing this system slammed by the social media fan pages and by the youtubers. The players that are not only loyal but are out there promoting your game.

So please ZOS, reconsider. Let us continue to buy the collectibles outright for a set price. It's absurd that we're having to come here to beg you to take our money in an honest way, but that is the position you've put us in.

My suggestion since it seems like the gambling crates are going in the game no matter what:
Serve free cocktails to the players while they're at Pacrooti's gambling table. And put an ATM close by so that when you get us liquored up, we can drain our bank accounts trying to get those cool Storm Atronach mounts. Might as well go full sleaze.

Loralai_907

While the changes being mentioned are perhaps a step in the right direction, I for one will still not be purchasing crown crates with real money. I have literally no interest in spending my money on a chance to get something I want. I might as well light my paycheck on fire for all the good crown crates will do me. And perhaps you will have people that will blow tons of cash on them. Maybe they will be a hit. But I hope they aren't.

arasysb14_ESO

SilentFox22 wrote: »

Could always beef up world bosses and anchors with Tamriel One and have them drop these boxes as rare treasure - eliminating crown $tore as the only means to aquire them.

sadly we know they would rather make the crown store shinier than the game it was built for...

here just take a look at how many "themed" exclusives they will include in those crown crates:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/290066/data-mining-icons-items-showcase-v2-6-update-12

(spoiler: atronach exclusive mounts are only the beginning, wait till wild hunt mounts become available in those crates)

No matter how much they want to make this gambling system look "more reasonable" than it is; even if they publish drop rates this whole thing is horrible. Thousands of people already stated in many ways possible yet they will keep pushing it.

Im done watching this game transitioning into a f2p game.

ZunaRoath

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hi everyone, here’s where we are with Crown Crates:

We put systems on the PTS for player feedback for a reason – we have sifted (and continue to analyze) your feedback on Crown Crates, and as such, we’re going to make at least the following changes to the system before it goes live later this year:

• We are working to change the way the system works to ensure that you get higher tiered items more often.
• We will allow you to convert unwanted Crown Crate consumables into Crown Gems. This way, you won’t be stuck with consumables you may not want, and you will also have more Gems to purchase the items that you do want.
• We will also take another look at Crown Crate potions, food, XP scrolls, etc. with an eye towards boosting their effectiveness and/or duration. This may entail us adding new recipes to allow crafters to make similar items.

We may well find other changes we want to make as well, and will let everyone know what we have done when this initial round of changes are in and can test them internally.

Gina, thank you for your answer. Many of us were waiting words from ZOS. I hope they take our feedback right and we are able to enjoy a little bit this crates. So thank you.

Do we know anything about the exclusive items? I would really like to know about it, if there is going to be a change of not making these exclusive?

Again, thank you. This is the way, listening to the players feedback.

SilentRaven1972

arasysb14_ESO wrote: »

Im done watching this game transitioning into a f2p game.

That, right there, is what scares me most.

"By the pricking of my thumbs,
Something wicked this way comes."

Jackey

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hi everyone, here’s where we are with Crown Crates:

We put systems on the PTS for player feedback for a reason – we have sifted (and continue to analyze) your feedback on Crown Crates, and as such, we’re going to make at least the following changes to the system before it goes live later this year:

• We are working to change the way the system works to ensure that you get higher tiered items more often.
• We will allow you to convert unwanted Crown Crate consumables into Crown Gems. This way, you won’t be stuck with consumables you may not want, and you will also have more Gems to purchase the items that you do want.
• We will also take another look at Crown Crate potions, food, XP scrolls, etc. with an eye towards boosting their effectiveness and/or duration. This may entail us adding new recipes to allow crafters to make similar items.

We may well find other changes we want to make as well, and will let everyone know what we have done when this initial round of changes are in and can test them internally.

I got the impression that most of us didn't want these boxes in game at all.
I don't think this will fix the issue here.

Adernath

@ZOS_GinaBruno thanks for dropping a post here and some information.

However, lets be honest: The entire purpose of this gambling system is a way to milk the playerbase more effective than what the crown store has to offer.

Simple as that.

And to all of those who are unhappy with drop rates or whatever: It doesn't matter how it will be finally implemented, the drop chances and the loot you will get will be adjusted to guarantee this simple purpose. They can - and will - tweak the rates from one day to another easily and it doesn't matter what drop rates you test on the PTS.

vyndral13preub18_ESO

I would say im surprised, but....

vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »

What players take from this thread:
No one likes the generic consumables in the boxes they arent good enough. Replace them with something else.

What marketing takes from this thread:
the consumables in the boxes are to weak and they need to be buffed to be better then what is in the game, so players enjoy getting them.

I also agree with the following. Until there is a quick and easy way to tell exactly what im gambling for and what is or isnt exclusive i wont go anywhere near these things. And i would imagine if all the cool items end up as exclusives i probably wont go near them at all.

MissBizz wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hi everyone, here’s where we are with Crown Crates:

We put systems on the PTS for player feedback for a reason – we have sifted (and continue to analyze) your feedback on Crown Crates, and as such, we’re going to make at least the following changes to the system before it goes live later this year:

• We are working to change the way the system works to ensure that you get higher tiered items more often.
• We will allow you to convert unwanted Crown Crate consumables into Crown Gems. This way, you won’t be stuck with consumables you may not want, and you will also have more Gems to purchase the items that you do want.
• We will also take another look at Crown Crate potions, food, XP scrolls, etc. with an eye towards boosting their effectiveness and/or duration. This may entail us adding new recipes to allow crafters to make similar items.

We may well find other changes we want to make as well, and will let everyone know what we have done when this initial round of changes are in and can test them internally.

Thank you very much @ZOS_GinaBruno for coming to let us know what changes are coming, and that you are considering more. This certainly is a step in the right direction but I feel one often heard complaint has still not been touched on. Could you please clarify what exactly in our PTS crates in exclusive to crates? Many folks are not interested in gambling and worry that an extremely large amount of items will be exclusive with the crates, making it feel (whether true or not) that the crown store won't get "quality" updates, rather, nice items will always head to these crates.

I realize you mentioned already that the team is working on a way to relay this information to the player in a much clearer fashion, but it would be a big step to just state what is exclusive vs not exclusive until they get something clearer in place.

dro_rasec

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

• We will also take another look at Crown Crate potions, food, XP scrolls, etc. with an eye towards boosting their effectiveness and/or duration. This may entail us adding new recipes to allow crafters to make similar items.

Pay to win confirmed

code65536

I want to add that most State laws and regulations regarding games of chance require that the chance of winning be disclosed.

This is an online game and probably not subject to the same kinds of laws. But voluntarily publishing drop rates is something that we would expect from a company acting in good faith.

SantieClaws

Khajiit will await to see the conversion rate of consumables to gems before she passes the judgement on these changes.

The rate of exchange presently is very poor indeed and if not improved would give little meaning to the additional conversion of consumables.

Yours with paws
Santie Claws

Acharnor

I'm glad they are taking a look at it! Maybe they will polish up this mess and it could be something not to objectionable. I don't care if they are in game, its a matter of player choice but I want them to be fair(ish) to those who choose to take a chance. It should be fun and right now, not so much.

Talek

So basically @ZOS_GinaBruno you gave the shittiest version to the public first (seriously i have like 3 versions of this system in my mind before it hits PTS and the bad one was waaay better than what we get) and now you expect that ppl will be happy?

It's obvious that consumables will be exchanged for 1 gems each and that is the problem, that ppl are spending 10k crowns on pts and have 20 gems + some useless tattoos and hats, where this flashy apex mounts will be 4k crowns before that crown crate shitshow came to your minds. You should be able to exchange every crown crate related costume,mount, pet etc. for 50% of it's value into gems if you don't want it. That is for me the biggest change that should take place in this system to be fair along higher drop rates of other stuff than tattoos and costumes from old bundles that was 3 for 700 crowns.

Cerilon

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hi everyone, here’s where we are with Crown Crates:

We put systems on the PTS for player feedback for a reason – we have sifted (and continue to analyze) your feedback on Crown Crates, and as such, we’re going to make at least the following changes to the system before it goes live later this year:

• We are working to change the way the system works to ensure that you get higher tiered items more often.
• We will allow you to convert unwanted Crown Crate consumables into Crown Gems. This way, you won’t be stuck with consumables you may not want, and you will also have more Gems to purchase the items that you do want.
• We will also take another look at Crown Crate potions, food, XP scrolls, etc. with an eye towards boosting their effectiveness and/or duration. This may entail us adding new recipes to allow crafters to make similar items.

We may well find other changes we want to make as well, and will let everyone know what we have done when this initial round of changes are in and can test them internally.

Still not enough........... Don't add them period.

ChuckyPayne

This npc is amazing, it would be a card game during festivals.
But, just erase that rng box idea and erase the temporary sales idea, and allow us to buy everything. If you feel that we don't buy too much, then need something else
- put achievement for pets, mounts etc
- more reason for eso plus
- sell standalone the craft bag for 5k crown (eso plus dont need, without eso plus 5k crown) but before eso plus says no no no, eso plus players can use freely personal banker and merchant too.
- sell convinient services to no eso plus players, and add it to eso plus for free
- constume dyeing service etc