Official Feedback Thread for Poison-Making

ZOS_GinaBruno · April 2016

This is the official feedback thread for Poison-Making. Specific feedback that the team is looking for includes the following:

Were you able to successfully and easily find the reagents required for poisons?
Did you make any poisons? How did that experience feel overall?
If you used poisons, did it feel satisfying?
When an active weapon is out of charge and poison (or just broken), you’ll see an indicator appear.
- Did you find the iconography to be clear and noticeable?
- Are there any other indicators that you feel would be helpful?
Do you have any other general feedback?

Enodoc · April 2016

Very interested to see the new reagents and what effects they have. I'm assuming that any new negative effects are countered by more new reagents with new positive effects for potions? Is it still possible to create an entirely "bad" potion (using, for example, Emetic Russula and Nirnroot for a "Potion of Ravage Health")? Can you create "beneficial" poisons (for example, combining Columbine and Bugloss with oil to create a Restore Health "poison")?

staracino_ESO · April 2016

Enodoc wrote: »

Very interested to see the new reagents and what effects they have. I'm assuming that any new negative effects are countered by more new reagents with new positive effects for potions? Is it still possible to create an entirely "bad" potion (using, for example, Emetic Russula and Nirnroot for a "Potion of Ravage Health")? Can you create "beneficial" poisons (for example, combining Columbine and Bugloss with oil to create a Restore Health "poison")?

To piggyback off of this, if it is possible to make an 'only beneficial' poison, what are the implications for cross-faction griefing in pvp? I.E. I get on my AD character with a tri-resto poison on my white bow (for low damage), and use weak light attacks on my EP friend while he is in combat to act as a healer that cannot be killed by other AD's?

umagon · April 2016

I was able to find some alkahest and made one poison. Also found some beetle scuttle. The equipping them could use a hot key, some poisons I saw on vendors would be nice for one or two attacks but then I would want to use my normal weapon enchantment. Going back into the inventory to change them out or turn them off is cumbersome.

Maybe add a poison belt slots or something where you can hot key 4 or so poisons. So when you press the button it equips on the weapons you are using then if you press it again it turns the poison application off.

tinythinker · April 2016

Enodoc wrote: »

Very interested to see the new reagents and what effects they have.

yeah it was neat finding reagents with ? ? ? ? for traits, haven't encountered that in a loooong time

Alanar · April 2016

Feedback for Alchemy - at an Alchemy station the Reagent don't appear to be in any particular order, which makes it hard to find anything. In fact, the order seemed to change when I logged off and logged back in. Maybe they should be alphabetical?

Alanar · April 2016

Here are the new alchemy traits for the toxins.

Mudcrab Chitin - Increase Spell Resist
Mudcrab Chitin - Protection
Mudcrab Chitin - Increase Armor
Mudcrab Chitin - Defile
Scrib Jelly - Ravage Magicka
Scrib Jelly - Vulnerability
Scrib Jelly - Speed
Scrib Jelly - Sustained Restore Health
Stinkhorn - Lower Armor
Stinkhorn - Increase Weapon Power
Stinkhorn - Ravage Health
Stinkhorn - Ravage Stamina
Blue Entoloma - Ravage Magicka
Blue Entoloma - Restore Health
Blue Entoloma - Lower Spell Power
Blue Entoloma - Invisible
Nightshade - Ravage Health
Nightshade - Creeping Ravage Health
Nightshade - Protection
Nightshade - Defile
Spider Egg - Reduce Speed
Spider Egg - Sustained Restore Health
Spider Egg - Invisible
Spider Egg - Defile
Beetle Scuttle - Lower Spell Resist
Beetle Scuttle - Increase Armor
Beetle Scuttle - Protection
Beetle Scuttle - Vitality
Butterfly Wing - Restore Health
Butterfly Wing - Sustained Restore Health
Butterfly Wing - Lower Spell Crit
Butterfly Wing - Vitality
Fleshfly Larva - Ravage Stamina
Fleshfly Larva - Creeping Ravage Health
Fleshfly Larva - Vulnerability
Fleshfly Larva - Vitality
Torchbug Thorax - Lower Armor
Torchbug Thorax - Lower Weapon Crit
Torchbug Thorax - Detection
Torchbug Thorax - Vitality

Alanar · April 2016

It looks like the reagents (waters and oils) at the alchemy station are still using veteran rank numbers instead of champion point numbers. For example, Alkahest says "Makes a [champion symbol] 15 poison. Should it be "Makes a [champion symbol] 150 poison"?

exiledtyrant · April 2016

Were you able to successfully and easily find the reagents required for poisons?

I didn't gather them the hard way. The crates were very easy to access however.

Did you make any poisons? How did that experience feel overall?

I made a lot of poisons. I have never done alchemy so the process was very confusing. After a few failures I finally picked up on the pattern of Poison component + non poison + non poison.

If you used poisons, did it feel satisfying?

Poisons felt very good and I found a large portion of the effects to be desirable. I can't really gauge they balance at the moment due to the bugs they have though. I am already considering leveling alchemist from scratch so I can get my hands on them right at launch.

When an active weapon is out of charge and poison (or just broken), you’ll see an indicator appear.
Did you find the iconography to be clear and noticeable?

I didn't notice it at all. I was burning through small 16 group packs over and over not realizing I was out.

Are there any other indicators that you feel would be helpful?

Maybe a sound effect like a breaking vial? There are already a lot of weapon glow effect so that could interfere with tracking other abilities. Maybe an icon that flashes above our head like a skull and bones.

Do you have any other general feedback?

Poisons are fun but they go quick. It doesn't take a lot of materials to make them however. It would be nice to switch poison on the fly somehow in combat. I am also not sure how poison operate while doing AOE attacks. Will the poison just proc on a random target? Will it hit every target? Will it ignore targets that already have a draining poison on them?

jamesj118b14_ESO · April 2016

Here's what's new with alchemy:

There are 8 new reagents

Beetle Scuttle
Fleshfly Larva
Mudcrab Chitin
Nightshade
Scrib Jelly
Spider Egg
Torchbug Thorax

They all drop from the critters and creatures you'd expect, except Nightshade, which is a new node

Spread among these reagents are 3 new effects, each with a positive and negative aspect:

Vitality/Defile, which increases/decreases your healing taken by 30%/15%
Protection/Vulnerability, which reduces/increases damage to you by 8%
Lingering/Creeping Health, which restores/ravages a small amount of health each second

You create poisons much like potions: match effects on different reagents, except use oil instead of water. However, while there are harmful potions, there are no beneficial poisons. Combining positive effects results in a "draining" poison, where you drain the effect from the target. For instance, using a protection poison will "drain" Minor Protection from the target, increasing the damage they take by 8% as well as decreasing the damage you take by 8%.

And herein lies my problem with poisons right now: with one, maybe two exceptions, poisons with "beneficial" effects are completely superior to poisons with negative effects. To continue the example above, a Vulnerability poison will increase the damage the target takes by 8%, and nothing else. The duration and magnitude of the debuff is exactly the same as that given by a Protection poison*, and the Protection poison will also give Minor Protection, making it superior in all respects.

The only exceptions are Restore/Ravage Health, with Restore doing less poison damage than Ravage but also restores health, and Invisiblity/Detection, where Invis is like Piercing Mark and Detect is like Magelight.
And that's how poisons should be: there should be a trade-off when you use positive or negative poisons.

*According to the tooltip, which could very well be wrong.

NBrookus · April 2016

Just a general comment: I was concerned that the addition of poisons would be seriously OP in gank builds and PvP. Having it temporarily replace the weapon enchant was a great idea, and allows flexibility. Also, since the enchant is still there, if a player runs out of poisons they aren't at a disadvantage or tied to an alchemy table addiction.

Well done.

Mr.Hmm · April 2016

umagon wrote: »

I was able to find some alkahest and made one poison. Also found some beetle scuttle. The equipping them could use a hot key, some poisons I saw on vendors would be nice for one or two attacks but then I would want to use my normal weapon enchantment. Going back into the inventory to change them out or turn them off is cumbersome.

Maybe add a poison belt slots or something where you can hot key 4 or so poisons. So when you press the button it equips on the weapons you are using then if you press it again it turns the poison application off.

I agree with the poison belt slots.

hrothbern · April 2016

First of all:

This Alchemy extension is awesome

Many, many new possibilities

One point of improvement I see now:
The Poison states Armor and it should be Physical Resist
(Since a while Armor Resist is defined as Spell AND Physical Resist)
see example:
k4Z7H8X.jpg?1

Here below some more Poisons AND..... AND new Potions !
(Poisons made with "Alkahest" oil and the Potions made with the normal Lorkhan's Tears.

Some new Potions that a Tank could use for self sustain:
Potions/Poisons made by a Crafter with still base values for Spell/Weapon Power and stats.

dq7lwBa.jpg?1

And some Poisons

QFbMsUj.jpg?1

silky_soft · April 2016

My main play style is ganking in pvp and I disapprove these poisons. They need to hold the same cooldown as your potion or not belong in pvp at all.

Darlon · April 2016

There's quite a bit of potential in the system..

i like this one for example:

ThatNeonZebraAgain · April 2016

hrothbern wrote: »

First of all:

This Alchemy extension is awesome
Many, many new possibilities

One point of improvement I see now:
The Poison states Armor and it should be Physical Resist
(Since a while Armor Resist is defined as Spell AND Physical Resist)
see example:

Here below some more Poisons AND..... AND new Potions !
(Poisons made with "Alkahest" oil and the Potions made with the normal Lorkhan's Tears.

Some new Potions that a Tank could use for self sustain:
Potions/Poisons made by a Crafter with still base values for Spell/Weapon Power and stats.

And some Poisons

Wait, so the new regeants can combine with current flowers to make these new potions?!

Darlon · April 2016

Yeah, loads of combinations...

umagon · April 2016

The alkahest drops off of trolls if anyone is looking for it. It drops rarely on other npcs but always from trolls. There is a new lore book that talks about the troll fat being used for alchemy.

gw2only1b14_ESO · April 2016

hrothbern wrote: »

First of all:

This Alchemy extension is awesome
Many, many new possibilities

One point of improvement I see now:
The Poison states Armor and it should be Physical Resist
(Since a while Armor Resist is defined as Spell AND Physical Resist)
see example:

Here below some more Poisons AND..... AND new Potions !
(Poisons made with "Alkahest" oil and the Potions made with the normal Lorkhan's Tears.

Some new Potions that a Tank could use for self sustain:
Potions/Poisons made by a Crafter with still base values for Spell/Weapon Power and stats.

And some Poisons

The ravage magika seem nasty

elium85 · April 2016

Do these work in PvE against Mobs, Dungeons, etc?

Xeven · April 2016

LOL is all I really have to say. How many procs can a single potion make? Can these effects be purged?

W
T
F

Darlon · April 2016

These do work in pve. Tried on random mobs in whrothgar.

dsalter · April 2016

any idea how long on average each poison works(total uses wise)? and do they work on all weapons? (staffs, bows, etc)

Darlon · April 2016

They do work on all weapons. The magitoxin poison I linked earlier lasts 10secs (is in the description). I used it with a fire staff and it worked. Every time it applies it uses a charge. When crafting you get 12 (I think) per oil/mat with alchemy maxed.

Ilsabet · April 2016

Is there an internal cooldown on applying a poison if the target already has the poison effect(s) active? I'd be a waste of charges if the effect lasted 10+ seconds but it was burning a charge every time you fired an attack. You'd end up needing to unequip the poison for 10 seconds, then re-equip it to reapply the effects, which would be impossible without hotkeying and cumbersome with hotkeying.

dsalter · April 2016

only 12 charges? yikes, was expecting at least 30 since light attacks are common place, tho that working on staffs is interesting, very interesting

hrothbern · April 2016

ThatNeonZebraAgain wrote: »

hrothbern wrote: »

First of all:

This Alchemy extension is awesome
Many, many new possibilities
.......//.........

Wait, so the new regeants can combine with current flowers to make these new potions?!

Jip @ThatNeonZebraAgain

Here below two very simple brews, made from the same two reagents, an old one and a new one
The first one with oil as solvent, becoming a Poison
The second one with a water as solvent, becoming a Potion
The number of different combinations will be quite big !

zrHrOay.jpg?1

exiledtyrant · April 2016

The stealth detection poisons may be a bit overkill. With all the new ways to reveal stealth I'm not sure a 10 second duration stealth reveal that also increase cloak cost by 30% is fair.

Liofa · April 2016

''Armor'' poison doesn't increase your Spell Resist sadly . It just steals Major Resolve ( increases physical resistance ) from the enemy and give it to you . I tested it against Trolls in Cyrodiil . No change in Spell Resist . As a DK , I don't have a problem with that but other classes may want that . Armor means both spell and physical resist usually but not this time I guess . It would be very helpful to the players if you make this clear .

Gilliamtherogue · April 2016

I've found some issues with the proc rates of some of the poisons. Mainly the Ravage Health poison that deals a flat damage on a 1 second cool down. The proc rate is extremely inconsistent- sometimes it procs every few hits and sometimes it simply does not proc at all. The charges it goes through is also a bit too fast at the moment, I put in 65 on my weapons and they were consumed in under 5 minutes of testing, despite not dealing damage each consumption.

It's hard to properly test the ICD of this at the moment as many addons that record Scrolling Text are broken, and the in game SCT does not attribute damage sources to what is dealing them (no name tags saying what each tick's source is).

olsborg · April 2016

Poisons are too powerful. You made them too strong. Weapon enchants pale in comparison to some of the stronger poisons. Also, to now be competitive in pvp you will pretty much need to have poison on your weapon, and that means more grind more money to spend on reagents etc, this is too much for casuals to keep up with.

Compare a poison user vs a player who dont use poisons and the poor pennyless pure pvper will have bad odds. This isnt really a path I can agree with. Poisons is exciting, yes, but in the current state on pts they are far too powerful.