Official Feedback Thread for Poison-Making

Khenzy

Is there a poison that adds the Major Brutality buff?

I have a DW/Bow stamblade build in mind that doesn't use either Hidden Blade nor Power Extraction and I'd love to know if there's one as it would be the perfect addition to my build.

silky_soft

staracino_ESO wrote: »

Meh. Pay to win is when you involve real money. That would be like saying pvp is pay to win because you have to buy siege to bring down walls.

You can buy them in the crownstore

glavius

Gilliamtherogue wrote: »

I broke down the DPS value of 348 wep damage and 3k poison in my original post, comes out to roughly 2k dps. 8% bonus damage scales based on your overall DPS. In PvE most end game builds pull ~30k single target dps. 30,000 x .08 = 2400 dps. 400 more than an enchant, and that's without factoring in CHD/crit/% amps on the enchants. 8% is a flat rate and will always be equal to or less than 8% dps. Not only that, but if you aren't in a min maxed DPS build, % amps are going to have much less of a gain for you. 8% bonus damage on a player means they die 8% faster, assuming it takes 20 seconds to kill a player, that's less than 2 seconds of saved time. Meanwhile dealing 1.5k poison damage and gaining ~350 weapon/spell damage for your skill coefficients (which are then cut in half since battle spirit) comes to about 600 added dps from the weapon and spell and 1.5k/6. Most players run ~ 23k health in Cyrodiil, some even less. An extra spike of 1500 (non crit) damage and that added umpf to your spells is easily close to if not more than what you'd gain from 8% damage.

The weapon damage enchant is also up 5 out of 6 seconds if you are properly playing, maybe 5/8 if you're not keeping up the offensive. Regardless, poisons aren't that much stronger, if at all, to enchants. It all depends on the circumstances of the fight and players involved.

I really wish players would spend the time to break down and analyse before they just jump the gun on calling something OP.

Your calculations are completely wrong. Lets take your example of a 30k dps guy. 2400 gained with 8% dmg increase on target, I agree on that. However an enchant does not give 2000 dps increase. It does maybe 2k dmg on a 4 second cooldown =500 dps.
So basically your's saying a 2400 dps increase from poison isn't really better than a 500 dps increase from enchant? GJ!
And this doesn't even factor in the fact that you also get +8% mitigation yourself from the poison.....

Iyas

Wow the poisons are way to overpowered!

olsborg

Iyas wrote: »

Wow the poisons are way to overpowered!

Join the club!

Sharee

Hmmm...

Jaybe_Mawfaka

Poisons atm are WAAAAAAY too strong, increase the cd or force people choose between poisons and potions because atm I just dunno, it should be rebalanced 100% before the live otherwise it will be " who has more posions left" meta

exiledtyrant

After unlocking all the ingredient combos it was really surprising how expansive this system really is. Some of the potential combos may need to be dialed back but I really like the direction this is taking. The system as it is really brings build utility to a whole new level. I'm definitely using the weapon power + weapon crit poison. The immovable + root poison was very surprising. Since the poison can proc off of skills it looks like sustained damage effects could actually break you out of CC which is neat.

Poison Issues:

Poison should note that the armor/spell resistance buffs don't stack with major resolve/ward.

The heal over time poison felt a little underwhelming. 386 poison damage a second and a 600 per second heal was meh.

The nirnroot add on felt a bit heavy handed with a crit chance reduction of 10% and a 12% crit damage reduction component on more complex poisons.

Poisons feel like they are firing off to fast. I don't see the point of poison effect durations if I am reapplying the poison every 2 seconds.

I'm going to stick this in a bug report too, but the Weapon critical buff gives like 470% crit chance meaning every attack you use crits 100% of the time right now.

*******************************************************************

All in all this system has been really fun so far. I never touched alchemy, but I will be maxing it live next week and stock piling for launch. I may never touch weapon enchants again.

Sharee

exiledtyrant wrote: »

Since the poison can proc off of skills...

If they do, that doesn't seem intended. According to the patch notes, poisons "have a chance to be applied to your enemy during each heavy or light attack of the associated weapon"

exiledtyrant

My flurry and rending slashes are proccing them constantly.Other duration skills seem like they proc it as well. It may only be initial damage on skills or DOTs in general I'm not sure yet. Even if this is a bug the poison procs are very high with just weaving at the moment.

karakondzula

Can poisons be purged?

Yiko

Poisons are too strong & expire too quickly. They're too good to not use on VMA weapons, and it will personally be tedious for me to maintain them.

Really didn't want to see more consumables come into PVP at all, though, especially when the general consensus among PVPers is that Cyrodiil is poorly balanced.

Sharee

Yiko wrote: »

Poisons are too strong & expire too quickly. They're too good to not use on VMA weapons, and it will personally be tedious for me to maintain them.

Just fyi, poisons are crafted in stacks of 16 (as opposed to potions which are crafted in stacks of 4) so the maintenance isn't as bad as i originally thought it would be.

eserras7b16_ESO

Poison making sounds exciting, but at the same time it looks like will be tedious to use and will make a great breech again between good/rich players and starters won't it?

eserras7b16_ESO

Also, we need to make sure they're not too OP, they should be in par with item enchantments if you need to decide upon using one or another. It may aswel break balance between magicka and stamina to the stamina side, we all want balance so try not to make stamina builds too much OP. They've been greatly buffed in fighters guild and some class skills, poison might break balance so make sure you look into it.

John_1999

I have a question....

if I use a bow and shoot an arrow on an enemy and my arrow is reflected by a skill, do I poison myself, if I use the new poison?

Kas

poisons seem very strong and incredibly expensive to maintain.
imho longer (significantly) cooldowns would improve the experience. maybe coupled with even longer durations on poisons.
right now it doesn't look like a game of maybe poison and clease but a game of who has the biggest purse to afford permanently using poisons

RinaldoGandolphi

Will the Snakeblood passive reduce the effectiveness and durations of poisons?

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/262557/alchemy-snakeblood-passive

MissBizz wrote: »

Yeah I thought snakeblood WOULD counter the poisons as per the question from PAX:

Q12: So, the mechanics of poison if you are playing a race with an innate resistance to poison is the player-owned poison going to be treated the same way as poison from a monster or will there be a reduction in the resistance as far as PvP?

RL: Umm, I don't know off the top of my head. I know that the snakeblood passive in the Alchemy line actually has an effect on poisons as well so my assumption is that it does but I haven't tested it personally. That's a question I can go back and ask Wrobel.

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/261597/pax-dark-brotherhood-round-table-transcript/p1

But I guess maybe Rich misunderstood? Or something recently changed?

Right now, Snakeblood is... I would say the most useless skill in this game. Just don't make bad potions - tada! If they allowed it to be useful to counter poisons at least it would become useful in PvP.

VaxtinTheWolf

I was using the generic potions you can loot from defeated enemies. I noticed it staggers my combat rhythm when a potion triggers.

Light attack > Ability Usage > Block Cancel > Repeat

When a potion triggers, I think it's canceling the use of my skill right after the light attack, and dropping its input command or not registering it.

Benefactor

*The reagents required for poisons where easy enough to find I feel. I do find that the drop rate for these new ingredients on monsters is far more common than the randomness of the plant reagents for potions because of the randomness that goes into plant reagents.

*I did make a few poisons and they felt just as easy as potions to make.

*poisons did feel satisfying when the procced but I'm unsure how I feel that it replaces enchantments when it does activate. I will have to experiment more but I feel like it could hinder my dps if it activates when useing Master or Maelstrom weapons. I know I don't have to use poisons but it feels like it's going to be nessisary to use them with the poison slot on weapons. This is strictly coming from a PVE player.

*I do see the indicator and it is quite clear but I was wondering if you might consider a toggle that allows you to see those icons at all time with the percentage of it active so that we could easily manage our repairs/charges before they get too broken.

Pomaikai

silky_soft wrote: »

My main play style is ganking in pvp and I disapprove these poisons. They need to hold the same cooldown as your potion or not belong in pvp at all.

I shall heretofore now call Poisons: Anti-Weenie Juice.

danno8

Sharee wrote: »

Hmmm...

This looks crazy, but we will have to see how the "multiple effect diminishing returns" works in subsequent PTS builds.

Sharee

danno8 wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Hmmm...

This looks crazy, but we will have to see how the "multiple effect diminishing returns" works in subsequent PTS builds.

Yep, that's important to remember, these values are not what we will see on live.

However, since the only thing that can be dilluted about roots/stealth prevention is the duration, and the poison will get reapplied very frequently(each other hit currently, so about every 2 seconds), the dillution will do little to diminish this particular poison's effectiveness.

NBrookus

.

Sharee wrote: »

Hmmm...

Like some other combos I played with, this one is dangerous. If your potion cooldown is 45 seconds, but a poison can completely remove your potion... it seems unbalanced.

PvP is about to become alchemical warfare. Alchemy is just not going to be optional. Time to stock up on reagents!

NBrookus

P.S. We really need alchemy hirelings now!

Mojmir

Sharee wrote: »

Hmmm...

that 1 second cool down,lol
Charges or not,that *** is OP af

Vidahr

Jaybe_Mawfaka wrote: »

Poisons atm are WAAAAAAY too strong, increase the cd or force people choose between poisons and potions because atm I just dunno, it should be rebalanced 100% before the live otherwise it will be " who has more posions left" meta

Poisons are supposed to degrade with every use, but the mechanic isn't working on the PTS. I don't think they'll be a problem on live, depending on how the degrade.

staracino_ESO

I foresee for the next Expansion: A set that greatly reduces or outright negates the effects of player poisons on you.
It will be one of the 4 new pvp sets with that particular expansion.

TerraDewBerry

I've just dabbled a little bit with the new poison system.. but from what I saw, it was awesome!!! Good job ZOS!

Soris

Poisons are p2w. They are so damn op and procs very often. You must YOU MUST use them to stay competitive, otherwise you are just gimping yourself. Literally. You broke the game this time. ggwp

Look at that immovability poison effects.

root
cc immunity
breakfree for free
drain health
drain magicka/stamina
make your target's spells cost more magicka/stamina

at every 15 seconds

ARE YOU KIDDING ME!?