What the heck do you arguing about?

I love TES lore and books/quest-part of the game and that doesn't make me do not want to take part in varied high-quality and balanced pvp.
And yeah, I was really sad, when they cancelled PvP Justice just like I am sad for them to completly abandon Craglorn. (and made a joke with Upper Craglorn questline poured into puddle)

babylon wrote: »

Ariisen wrote: »

The community has been very vocal about what they want regarding PvP and PvE, and it wasn't heists and a new quest line.

I'd say this comment right here would be a case of suffering from confirmation bias.

Everyone I come across loves the Thieves Guild DLC. That's just my experience though, and I talk to a lot of different people.

"Once I learned what confirmation bias was, I started seeing it everywhere."

But, yeah, this wasn't something I thought I wanted for ESO, but it's been a fantastic addition.

babylon wrote: »

Ariisen wrote: »

The community has been very vocal about what they want regarding PvP and PvE, and it wasn't heists and a new quest line.

I'd say this comment right here would be a case of suffering from confirmation bias.

Everyone I come across loves the Thieves Guild DLC. That's just my experience though, and I talk to a lot of different people.

I'm not saying it's bad, t's probably fun and a good addition but how long will it keep core players in the game?
Would you\they still want it if instead you could get: the vet versions of some old dungeons, the scaling of old trials and vDSA, an auction house, changing some BoP gear in BoE, removal of undesiderable traits from BoP gear, removal of AoE caps, a 1v1 or 4v4 PvP arena or, at least some of this things?

That's what the community wants and has been asking for months already without success.

@babylon

Idk if you're on PC, but on Ps4 the pvp community is actually quite astonishing. Considering there were 27 MILLION Ps4's sold over the past two years you can bet the community is thriving on console. I'm pretty sure the PvP base is probably much higher on console as well because there is NO alternative for a similar MMO that has PvP.

Wow. Hit the nail on the head right there, agreed. Love listening to Feng lol

I never really liked Fengrush, but I do agree with everything he said in the video.

Everybody that says PVP isn't as important as PVE and vice versa are short sighted. You guys honestly think PVP'ers leaving the game in droves doesn't effect your end? Does our money not matter as much? "Oh but you got Imperial City!". What is the motivation for IC PVP wise? IC is an instanced area, and doesn't contribute to the campaign it's on in any way, even though it was initially sold as such. Once people got the gear they wanted and tried it out for a little while, it's now empty. Just people grinding, and a few people that are bored with Cyro lag that's maybe looking for a lagless fight.

I consider myself a hardcore PVP'er and unfortunately had to take a two month break because I wanted to level up some toons. 6 V16's later and I decide to go back yesterday...so excited. 4pm central time (not even prime time) in Trueflame and it's slide show: online. It lags so bad that your sound cuts out. Not just FX, but music too. How is this a thing? You acknowledge zerg's existence by introducing an anti-zerg ability (that's overpowered as a single target ability) and also an anti-zerg gear set. Instead of cleaning the spilled liquid on the floor, you put a damn newspaper over it and move on.

It is this way of thinking that pushes people to the breaking point. We have tried to "be nice", and "try and say it in a constructive manner" for far too long, and it has fallen on deaf ears. You don't like the way Fengrush says things because it's "vitriol" or "garbage from some streamer", but I think you are missing the point. We're the middle children of this game. No purpose or place. We have no great DLC. Our great DLC is actually PVE with PVP wrapping paper on it. We've all been raised on advertisement for massive AvAvA with hundreds of people on screen at once. We will never get the balance or massive AvAvA without lag. We won't. And we're slowly learning that fact. And we're very, very pissed off.

Lysette wrote: »

EsoRecon wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Moglijuana wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

WalkingLegacy wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

I think Fengrush has no idea about how casuals play and for how long they stay in a game. He said like 3 months and then they are leaving the game - why would they possibly do that?- They have seen like nothing from this game in 3 months, because they do neither rush through the content nor would they spend a lot of time playing - if they get to play 20 hours per month that is already a lot and if they get up to 40 they hit a boundary, where their spouses will start to seriously get mad at them.

For casuals the game content will not run out anytime soon - they simply are not gamers who would consume a game like it would be melting ice cream. They do not burn through the content like being on speed and they do not run around like squirrels from quest to quest - they try to enjoy their time in Tamriel, without stress or the insane idea, that endgame would be what the game would be about - it is not - that what hardcore gamers see as a necessary evil - the PvE content - that is their game. And that Pvp content is not much more than a necessary evil, because they will most likely never get to it anyway.

This game can perfectly live on for many years to come, paid solely by casual players - they might not play a lot, they will as well not be a burden on the servers, but they are willing to keep up a subscription for years to come - because that is what they want - enjoyable entertainment to get back to, whenever they have a couple of hours. They do not seek a challenge, but entertainment, something to get away from reality for a bit - so they stay subscribed, because this is the cheapest seen long term. And that is exactky what ZOS wants as well - reliable income for years to come - so it is a win-win situation - just not for hardcore players.

You have it so backwards sometimes.

Lysette wrote: »

Mojmir wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

I think Fengrush has no idea about how casuals play and for how long they stay in a game. He said like 3 months and then they are leaving the game - why would they possibly do that?- They have seen like nothing from this game in 3 months, because they do neither rush through the content nor would they spend a lot of time playing - if they get to play 20 hours per month that is already a lot and if they get up to 40 they hit a boundary, where their spouses will start to seriously get mad at them.

For casuals the game content will not run out anytime soon - they simply are not gamers who would consume a game like it would be melting ice cream. They do not burn through the content like being on speed and they do not run around like squirrels from quest to quest - they try to enjoy their time in Tamriel, without stress or the insane idea, that endgame would be what the game would be about - it is not - that what hardcore gamers see as a necessary evil - the PvE content - that is their game. And that Pvp content is not much more than a necessary evil, because they will most likely never get to it anyway.

This game can perfectly live on for many years to come, paid solely by casual players - they might not play a lot, they will as well not be a burden on the servers, but they are willing to keep up a subscription for years to come - because that is what they want - enjoyable entertainment to get back to, whenever they have a couple of hours. They do not seek a challenge, but entertainment, something to get away from reality for a bit - so they stay subscribed, because this is the cheapest seen long term. And that is exactky what ZOS wants as well - reliable income for years to come - so it is a win-win situation - just not for hardcore players.

so basically in a nut shell: hardcore players,pvp fanatics,and streamers picked the wrong game to invest in. not arguing just interpreting.

Of course they did - like Mr. Firor said lately, this is not the typical MMO but more of an expansive online Elder Scrolls RPG. And that is what it is going to be, you expect the wrong thing, if you think it will ever be something else.

He has said so many things, and constantly changes their agenda when they realize they can't accomplish anything. This is no different then stating their "MMO" is different than traditional MMOs. How so Matt/Lysette? Different because you're designing a single player experience but charging cash shop items that mimic an MMO?

Different as in "having no end game" - you guys are just not getting it - there is no end game and never will be - you might get an arena - another hamster cage for you to run in for a little while longer - but in fact ESO is a role playing game, an online version of an Elder Scrolls RPG - in that it is not a typical MMO. That ESO still has this hamster cage in Cyrrodil is just because it is still making some extra cash - if it will do that no longer, it might cease to be a PvP zone, who can say that now - you guys say, you will eventually leave, and think that is a threat - it is not, they might wait for you to actually do it. They cannot kick you out because you have paid for the game and are customers, but you are not the desired kind of customer, that's for certain. The whole game development is showing this.

The problem is, the Dev team hints at going in a certain direction (usually to appeal to both PvE & PvP) but then they go in a completely different direction without any discussion with the players that play their game...

Did it ever come to your mind, that ZOS has the data - they can actually see, where most players are and what they are doing most of the time - if it would be pvp, then they would cater for this more - but as it seems, it is not pvp, despite that this kind of people cry the loudest in the forum - in actual numbers they just seem to be insignificant, not worth the hassle. They are still providing some income, so you pvp guys will get some bread crumbs from time to time, but that's it. Otherwise it is an online role playing game based on the PvE and role play crowd - because, you might not believe it, they are the majority and they will stick with the game and not bail out for the next big hype, like you guys will do - bail and invade the next thing like a swarm of locusts, make people there miserable with your poison until it will be time for the locusts to bail and swarm to the next hype - and you think, you guys are preferred customers?- Now, get real.

They are trying to make the game better -_- And I am willing to bet that there was once more people playing pvp than pve, but ZOS every update does something that pushes PVP players away.

Sigh - you guys really do not get what Elder Scrolls is all about - do you? - it was never meant to be what you think it would be. Never, simply because this would p*ss off the fan base of TES. It was never meant to be a PvP-centric game, never, but Elder Scrolls with friends. Basically that what they now clearly state - an expansive online Elder Scrolls RPG - that is what it is.

Why do you continue to make this up? Elder Scrolls is beyond being labeled as a PvE or PvP game.

It is a story and that story can be told in either PvP or PvE.

Lysette wrote: »

EsoRecon wrote: »

I just now realized that the majority of people left are skyrim players. Well I have something for you. This isn't that type of game. Now don't get me wrong I absolutely loved skyrim, but ESO isn't skyrim. So there should be good pvp and things to do at end game. It shouldn't just be an RP quester game. It's an MMO!

Mr. Firor is not of your opinion - and he is in the lead - so guess what will happen and who is right.

Now you speak for Matt Firor? Have you not noticed how he has back tracked on a lot of his promises to the game? Do you think he back tracked because they don't know how to fix their own game?

You know Matt Firor background is DAoC. A RvRvR MMORPG.

Conquistador wrote: »

I wish all of you people would be this fiery over things that really matter, like climate change, world hunger and so forth.

But... those things don't matter. Not at all

Deadfinger6 wrote: »

Awh...God, I can only watch 2mins of this....when did everyone become Whiney Neo-developers with a need to slate any thing that they percieve isn't the way the game should be.

go look at all the advertising that was made for this game and than go ahead and watch all the eso live's.

i dont care if you're a pve guy with 0 intrest in pvp. but alot of people actually did buy this game just for the pvp (look at eso advertisement)

those same people have now spend almost 2 years building and improving their characters whilst also paying this company a monthly fee (not neccasery atm..i know)

than the company breaks the content that we were intrested in and spend alot of time in while they keep promising that they are going to fix it.

1 year later.. and it just gets worse by the day.. and you people expect others that play content that you're not intrested in to just bend over and accept that we got screwed for more than a year ?

the only reason i kept logging on all these months was because i hoped that pvp would be more playable/balanced and ALOT less buggy.. i even kept paying my sub.

this last patch didnt do anything to the major concerns alot of pvpers have and i believe that its completely acceptable to say that they dont care whatsoever.

Malmai wrote: »

DaveMoeDee wrote: »

Malmai wrote: »

Listen

"Listen", or agree and kowtow?

We dont need KowTow they need to FIX stuff and LAG !

Lag is nowhere near the top of my list of things to do in the game. I agree that it sucks that it is there and that their PvP design is failing, but the game might just have to further emphasize its identity as an MMORPG (that has some PvP). It is nice to have PvP there for a change of pace now an then, but I can understand decisions to not make it a priority. When I go into PvP and lag gets crazy, I mostly just chuckle.

Arenas might be good for the game technically since it would be some of the easiest game zones to code and maintain and it could entertain people looking for that -- so long as ZOS ignores arena balancing complaints.

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

I like how people throw around the term "casual" like its an insult. Pretty sure you are supposed to PLAY games casually and not make it your life's work. For many of us casuals we have lots of real life obligations. We might not play as much as these supposed hardcore people but our money spends the same. By definition casuals are the majority of people paying for and playing this game.

I wear it as a term of pride.

It's not an insult but more like yin and yang
Casuals are not what mmos are made for they take tons of hours and dedication but the way they are putting this game into motion isn't like an mmo that caters to having a thriving endgame for hardcore players and casuals alike but just catering to casuals leaving that hardcore segment in the toilet and giving more and more to casuals who will just quit when the content is finished or leave until the next dlc
That's not how you make a game last or make money

For those PvE players who blame PvP for

Lysette wrote: »

I think Fengrush has no idea about how casuals play and for how long they stay in a game. He said like 3 months and then they are leaving the game - why would they possibly do that?- They have seen like nothing from this game in 3 months, because they do neither rush through the content nor would they spend a lot of time playing - if they get to play 20 hours per month that is already a lot and if they get up to 40 they hit a boundary, where their spouses will start to seriously get mad at them.

For casuals the game content will not run out anytime soon - they simply are not gamers who would consume a game like it would be melting ice cream. They do not burn through the content like being on speed and they do not run around like squirrels from quest to quest - they try to enjoy their time in Tamriel, without stress or the insane idea, that endgame would be what the game would be about - it is not - that what hardcore gamers see as a necessary evil - the PvE content - that is their game. And that Pvp content is not much more than a necessary evil, because they will most likely never get to it anyway.

This game can perfectly live on for many years to come, paid solely by casual players - they might not play a lot, they will as well not be a burden on the servers, but they are willing to keep up a subscription for years to come - because that is what they want - enjoyable entertainment to get back to, whenever they have a couple of hours. They do not seek a challenge, but entertainment, something to get away from reality for a bit - so they stay subscribed, because this is the cheapest seen long term. And that is exactky what ZOS wants as well - reliable income for years to come - so it is a win-win situation - just not for hardcore players.

Thanks for countering Feng's set of sweeping generalisations and baseless assumptions with another set . That's what the game needs too: balance!

Kahl_dur wrote: »

Morbash wrote: »

Kahl_dur wrote: »

Sorry, I'm confused. Was that supposed to be a review of Thieve's Guild? Seemed more like the foul-mouthed rantings of a disgruntled streamer to me.

Sorry, I'm confused. Was your post supposed to add something of value to the discussion? If you can't handle coarse language, then please take your prudish bait post elsewhere. Feel free to come back and contribute to the discussion when you're wearing your big boy pants.

LOL. It's called sarcasm. And yes, his "Thieve's Guild review" was nothing more than a profanity-laced tirade that lacked both coherence and constructive criticism.

Sure, his review did consist of a fair share of profanity. I'll give you that. However, just because profanities were used, that doesn't mean the video lacked coherency or constructive criticism. The criticism Fengrush offers is colorfully constructive, and he makes many valid points.

Have you tried filtering the language and listening to the points made in the video? I'm going to assume "no" considering we've yet to move past "Gasp! That man said some bad, bad words. He's a very baaaad man; therefore, his opinions on ESO do not matter."

I can personally pick out plenty of sound arguments that Fengrush makes, and Fengrush's inclusion of profanities does not impact my ability to do so. See...watch this...

Some key points from Fengrush's Thieves Guild review:

1. Balance has shifted in the favor of Magicka based builds since TG released. This is mainly due to changes with CP, Proximity Detonation, and the addition of sets such as Vicious Death. Not only that, but stamina builds did not receive any noteworthy changes to their skill sets. For example, with the exception of stamina DKs and their dragon leap, stamina builds do not have ultimates that scale off of physical damage.

2. ZOS did not scale old content and gear to max level. This makes the old content and gear obsolete. Why not make old content and gear scale to max level? It'll add variety alongside new content such as Thieves Guild.

3. Performance in Cyrodiil is still extremely lackluster. Why? Because AOE caps cause ball groups. People form ball groups because they know it's safe. There's an inherent advantage to stacking numbers on top of each other. AOE caps basically serve as an artificial shield. The more numbers you have, the less damage you take. And currently, the only way to effectively combat ball groups is to bring in a ball group of your own. When these ball groups clash for hours on end and constantly spam AOEs, this becomes the root of the lag and performance issues we experience in Cyrodiil each and everyday.

See? Not that hard to pick out some of the points Fengrush made in his video despite his crude way of communicating. And even though he uses profane speech, his arguments are still plausible and comprehensible.

People are WAAAY too caught up in how the message was delivered rather than the actual message itself.