This...

Callous2208

Morbash wrote: »

Kahl_dur wrote: »

Sorry, I'm confused. Was that supposed to be a review of Thieve's Guild? Seemed more like the foul-mouthed rantings of a disgruntled streamer to me.

Sorry, I'm confused. Was your post supposed to add something of value to the discussion? If you can't handle coarse language, then please take your prudish bait post elsewhere. Feel free to come back and contribute to the discussion when you're wearing your big boy pants.

Lol discussion. What discussion? I thought you were all here to stroke this guy's ego while patting each other on the back for agreeing with your vaunted interwebz hero. This thread is a support group for tearfull souls who supposedly hate and no longer play this game, same as any other qq thread.

Garldeen

Anyone would think people are being forced to play the game. I play the game because I enjoy it. When the enjoyment stops I will seek alternative games/activities to fill the gap. Life is too short to play a game which I don't not enjoy, just so it gives me something to complain about. Those who know me would say I can already find plenty of things to complain about, without needing to add to the list

This game will never be perfect for everyone. Impossible. Changing x to keep player 1 happy will result in player 2 becoming unhappy. The goal is to find the middle ground in which as many people as possible are happy. As the game is still going after two years, I would guess they are in the right ballpark.

There again, i'm a casual - I play the game for a few hours a week to relax after work and study. The game for me is entertainment, not a purpose.

*puts tin foil hat on*

Zyle

Callous2208 wrote: »

Morbash wrote: »

Kahl_dur wrote: »

Sorry, I'm confused. Was that supposed to be a review of Thieve's Guild? Seemed more like the foul-mouthed rantings of a disgruntled streamer to me.

Sorry, I'm confused. Was your post supposed to add something of value to the discussion? If you can't handle coarse language, then please take your prudish bait post elsewhere. Feel free to come back and contribute to the discussion when you're wearing your big boy pants.

Lol discussion. What discussion? I thought you were all here to stroke this guy's ego while patting each other on the back for agreeing with your vaunted interwebz hero. This thread is a support group for tearfull souls who supposedly hate and no longer play this game, same as any other qq thread.

10/10 edgy.

DaveMoeDee

EsoRecon wrote: »

I just now realized that the majority of people left are skyrim players. Well I have something for you. This isn't that type of game. Now don't get me wrong I absolutely loved skyrim, but ESO isn't skyrim. So there should be good pvp and things to do at end game. It shouldn't just be an RP quester game. It's an MMO!

"This isn't this type of game"

If that is the case, than no one should be complaining about Skyrim players since, as you say, this game isn't designed for them.

So who is it designed for? I assume those people you are referring to much be the most happy with the game.

On a side note, RP and 'quester' are two different things. People like TES games mostly because they get to develop their character and they feel an attachment with their own development and their impact on the world. Quite a few people put hundreds of hours into TES games without finishing the main story line.

Katahdin

They do listen. They just dont agree and aren't making the changes Fengrush and his minions want.

tinythinker

There are comments in the thread about both PvE and PvP, and both were even mentioned in the video. But the last few pages have been devolving more and more toward posturing and belittling based on the idea that everything resolves into "PvE vs PvP". If you have no problem with the boatload of new bugs each patch, the bugs that have been around for years, the relative lack of transparency that ZOS has admitted is a problem and still struggles with, the numerous issues with endgame PvE content and with AvA, and similar subjects being discussed, and you think ZOS/ESO is wonderful and shouldn't be criticized, that's great, but what value do you hope to contribute to this thread?

Believe it or not there are people who both PvP and PvE, who are often long time players, who have supported this game by helping fellow players/suggesting fixes/giving ZOS lots of money, who make reasoned suggestions and criticisms, and who still feel ZOS needs to do better in terms of the quality of what they put out and in their communication with the player-base. This is true whether you like or agree with the video posted, and whether you care about people who enjoy the game differently than you. If this thread becomes another sh%t-throwing or p$issing contest between those who mostly want to argue, any helpful criticism will get drowned out.

DaveMoeDee

EsoRecon wrote: »

Can someone explain to me why PVE players get so mad when we PVP players want something good to happen in PVP? I mean it doesn't affect you, so why get so worked up about it.

Look into how many of the complainers phrase their complaints. If they are complaining about so-called "casual", you have your answer.

Also, we need to keep our voices heard because we don't start many complaint threads. It is important to be heard so that ZOS knows that a large number of people like where the game is going and thought TG was a great addition (though with mixed opinions on topless NPCs and purple/pink critters.)

Lavum

Notice there has not been any comments to the Video and the issues raised from ZOS? I really want to be playing this game for the long haul, but the consistent issues are making it a challenge. The fact that ZOS does not engage with the community is very worrisome, and does not give me the impression that they are even actually read things like this.

SemiD4rkness

Pve is for casuals since ESOs pvp now sucks ESO is officialy declared by me a casual game.

Mady

rotaugen454 wrote: »

Mady wrote: »

Mady wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

It's funny how he says that all players want aoe caps removed, than in fact only a small minority wants them to be removed..

I'm pretty sure there was a poll asking if players want AOE caps or not and about 80% voted No AOE caps. Still got AOE caps.
But I could remember it wrong. Long time ago tho.

"Someone" sent me the link to the thread:

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/88049/do-you-think-there-should-be-an-aoe-cap/p1

Over 4000 votes
That's just another part of 'not listening'. But people still say "they try". Maybe they actually do, but not as hard as possible!

What % of the total player base are the 3700 who said "no AOE cap"? What % of players even ever get on the forums?

Every player is able to vote in those polls. If they don't want it's their thing, but then they can't complain about nothing changes. But should ZOS answer to players that say 'Hey, can we have a look at this' (+ the majority of people share their opinion & agree) - 'Nope, you're only 4000 players of 5000 PvP players reading the forums' (Kappa)?

Then we can stop sharing opinions, because only 10% of the player base is active in the forums. Not enough to represent a proper state how people think about the game. Everyone else is fine with lags or bugs then.... mhm?

Edit: I wonder if there is any other poll that has that much people voted?....

DaveMoeDee

Malmai wrote: »

Listen

"Listen", or agree and kowtow?

Morbash

Callous2208 wrote: »

Morbash wrote: »

Kahl_dur wrote: »

Sorry, I'm confused. Was that supposed to be a review of Thieve's Guild? Seemed more like the foul-mouthed rantings of a disgruntled streamer to me.

Sorry, I'm confused. Was your post supposed to add something of value to the discussion? If you can't handle coarse language, then please take your prudish bait post elsewhere. Feel free to come back and contribute to the discussion when you're wearing your big boy pants.

Lol discussion. What discussion? I thought you were all here to stroke this guy's ego while patting each other on the back for agreeing with your vaunted interwebz hero. This thread is a support group for tearfull souls who supposedly hate and no longer play this game, same as any other qq thread.

Agreement and disagreement do play a rather large role in discussions. Perhaps if you took time from being so Callous, then we could have a discussion. Fengrush made his case. Now, it's your turn to refute his points and offer some valid reasoning for why you disagree with him. Instead, you insist on flaming others for taking a stance. As a reminder, here's your contribution to this thread thus far...

After reading through this thread, I am certain now that eso is doomed. A streamer I've never heard of and a handfull of forum experts that hang off his jock said so. Their opinions matter to me the most since they "allegedly" no longer play the game.

In the end, it's up to you. You can contribute something of value to the discussion, or you can continue throwing around ad hominems. Your choice.

anitajoneb17_ESO

Regardless of very real formal issues (pedantic use of impolite vocabulary), the main issue is the confusion between :

- There's nothing left for me => game is bad and devs are incompetent
and
- There's nothing left for me => I don't belong to the game's target audience any more, time to move and let target audience enjoy what they have.

.

Malmai

DaveMoeDee wrote: »

Malmai wrote: »

Listen

"Listen", or agree and kowtow?

We dont need KowTow they need to FIX stuff and LAG !

me_ming

ADarklore wrote: »

dennischizophrenia wrote: »

ZOS keeps pushing their loyal players further and further away - that's a fact and Feng, well he's right. And after everything we dealt with a rant seems more than acceptable. :P

I wish the game would push more of these guys FURTHER out of the game! The PvP-centric people are the most toxic I've seen in gaming, and the more that leave the better IMO. Hate to break it to you, but this game IS NOT dominated by PvP players- although I know most of you want to convince yourself differently. For your information, this game is dominated by PvE solo-centric players and that is basically how the game was designed. Also, if Matt Firor even comes out and states that this game is more of a RPG than traditional MMO, then that should answer your question about how PvP fits into ESO.

While ZOS does have its fair share of problems, I'm still absolutely loving the game and I've been playing constantly for almost a year now. No, I don't PvP, I am one of the numerous solo-centric PvE players that you normally don't notice because I am too busy doing my own thing and enjoying the game. For those who think that ESO is 'losing players'- they're only losing the kind of players that you associate with... but the overall health of the game is just fine. Example... yesterday afternoon- a MONDAY afternoon- I started a new character and was annoyed because of the sheer number of players in the Wailing Prison, took me forever to reach level six because of how many players kept killing everything so quickly. Doing the Khenarthi's Roost and Auridon quests... same thing... players everywhere. So how can a game that is supposedly 'dying' be so constantly filled on a weekday afternoon with new players?!?

Wait 'til you get to end game, and learn that there really isn't much worth doing anymore.

Waffennacht

@SemiD4rkness what's not a casual game? Then, is this non-casual game available on console?

ButtersEP

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom

I agree with Feng on some things, personally I think this video was a lot about him saying "I feel I don't receive the attention I deserve from Zenimax" BUT, he definitely has a few good points, for me its the end game PVE, not scaling the other Trials, the fact the last 2 new dungeons we received with IC are 6 months old currently, and will likely be 9 months (Dark Brotherhood hopefully) before we get new dungeons. Personally by the end of the Year I would like to see a SCT have a log report, and our 8 normal dungeons that don't have veteran versions, get veteran versions. I am a hardcore end game PVE player, I would like to stay challenged the entire time between DLC's. Maybe I will agree with Feng more next Tuesday when XB1 gets TG, we will see !

gresiac

ive played since beta and sadly im with fengrush to many unfixed bugs and lag, so its taking my intrest away

WalkingLegacy

EsoRecon wrote: »

WalkingLegacy wrote: »

EsoRecon wrote: »

Mush55 wrote: »

I take it this is another mainly PvP moan fest...

yes

No, watch the video.

Hey man I've seen the vid and am completely on Fengrush's side here. But you can't deny the fact that we are again moaning for something to be done to pvp.

He trashed every component, not just PvP.

mechrahod

Hey, guys an' girls. Please be pollite to each other - we are a part of this game most of us hold dear.
So.

It looks like I'm a bit of my league here. I'm doing all kinda activities, IC is one of my favourite DLC ever, so I RP, PvE and PvP all the same. Can't say that I am hardcore player, but I may be interesting in becoming one, though, I was playing pure PvP for a long time after realease and remember all PvP OP metas of old.

As a player who:
1) Not a Magicka Sorcerer
2) Interersted in PvP an' balance
I'm mostly agreed with Feng Rush. And I respect him a lot for playing Stamina Sorcerer in PvP.

Well, as Roleplayer... I'm satisfied with Thieves Guild.

As a PvE player I higly dislike @ZOS for buffing magicka builds without anything done to stamina. And unscaled trials is just plain fail.

And what do we have after patch - I mean all this heckuva varieties of bugs and glitches (game was unplayable for me for the first 2 or 3 days with constant crushes) - is just goddamned disrespect to us, your player base.

I'm still staying, but I'm becoming suspicious. -_-

babylon

EsoRecon wrote: »

Can someone explain to me why PVE players get so mad when we PVP players want something good to happen in PVP? I mean it doesn't affect you, so why get so worked up about it.

Time taken from PVE activities, nerfs in PVP affecting PVE skills, having to sit in the forum listening to even more of you whine about every single little minor thing that happened to you today...I could go on...

On ZOS's side, not sure you guys really make them all that much money anyway. Once you guys get to max level you all just sit in the same area not needing to sub and generally not buying any of the nice fun things offered in the Crown Store.

___________________

starkerealm

Phinix1 wrote: »

I can understand where you are coming from here, and while that may hold true for the average forum-goer and casual commentator, I don't think leaders and developers really have the luxury of playing "boy-who-cried-wolf" on certain issues. A better response would probably be to just give certain people a "time out" when they are posting non-constructive fodder, temporarily putting them on ignore. Or, better yet, flag certain people as "said something worth listening to in the past" so that they show up with a little star on your ignore filter.

In this case you seem thinking of the problem as a one on one interaction. We're not talking about an individual... I suppose when we're talking about Feng we, technically, are; but in a larger context, at any time there are going to be disaffected players. That's life. People who will come to you and say, "well, I think there's a problem here," and people who come and shout, "you suck, this is all your fault."

If you're looking at the second group, you'll get a lot of uninformed hate. You might find legitimate insights there as well, but you're choosing to subject yourself to this kind of abuse on the idea that there might be something useful in there, somewhere, maybe.

This is compounded by the part where, in this case, it's not stuff that's popping up on the forums. It's choosing to go out into the wild in search of abuse; again, on the hope that someone might have something useful to say.

Phinix1 wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Case in point.

I mean, here you've made a legitimate point: There are balance issues between the classes. And, you've wrapped it in a cynical and abusive tone. Which, I mean, as a content creator, I'd look at that and say, "nope, not even going to bother," and move on.

You had a legitimate point, but now it's lost, because you set it up as an insult.

Again you make an important point. If you want attention paid to your ideas, it is best to phrase them in an approachable tone. Believe me, I encounter this frequently from certain rude and entitled people that post demands on my addon pages. Demands! For something I do for free! And they can't even be bothered to not be a &^%! about it. Yeah. No.

I feel you. This is a large part of why I stopped publishing my mods on Nexus.

Phinix1 wrote: »

HOWEVER, there are important limits to that formula. A certain level of frustration has to be understandable when dealing with a customer-vendor relationship. If this were a perfect vacuum that would be one thing (and of course we are all people first and should be respectful to one another), but when there is a product being sold and money on the line, the rules change a little.

That doesn't mean it is appropriate to be abusive, but then I would hardly call that statement abusive. Cynical, maybe. But as a business, you have to be prepared to understand that if a customer has purchased something and it is not meeting their expectations, then so long as those expectations are reasonable, that feedback must be considered as worth listening to, even simply from a business standpoint.

Except, it doesn't really. When you get to the business standpoint, everything starts breaking down into a cash assessment. You have to ask questions like, "is this person's grievance representative of a larger demographic in the game?" If the answer is "no," your input takes a serious body blow.

Unfortunately, hardcore PvP players make up a small percentage of the game's population. PvPers in general account for about 5% as I recall, and the hardcore PvPers who almost never leave Cyrodiil except to grind trial gear and shoulders are an even smaller segment.

Phinix1 wrote: »

Yes, if ALL the guy had done for 30 minutes was yell "you suck" it might be hard to see the point. And watching it again, he does yell "you suck" a lot. He does make some legitimate points, and I think the reason it appeals is because there is a lot of resonant frustration that gets amplified by affirmation.

Yeah, unfortunately, he does create a perfect storm to be ignored, by representing a tiny chunk of the game's population, using vitriolic language, and assigning blame. Which is a shame because there are some good points in there. But the delivery kills it.

Like you said, it's about maintaining an approachable tone. He has his grievances, which is great, but ZOS is under no obligation to value his opinion more highly than yours or mine. Which, I got an impression he thought they should, because they'd featured one of his builds on the site. I'm paraphrasing but he had this bit about, "well, they were reaching out to us, then we spat in their face, and then they stopped talking with us, and I guess they just don't like hearing from people who don't agree with them."

It is a good expression of the irritation some players feel towards the game, but at the same time, some of that was more than a little hyperbolic.

Phinix1 wrote: »

I have never seen a gaming community that goes so out of their way to theory-craft and write up spreadsheets and databases of information for the devs to pour over than this one. Maybe the perceived lack of resolution to core issues is the reason a rant that otherwise would pass as inconsequential catches like wildfire?

I think the most important solution ZOS should take away from things like this is that people simply want a timetable, setting reasonable expectations for progress on top priority issues. With proper communication these things would be far less relevant.

In fairness, ZOS used to do that. As I recall, we got a lot of people that got really testy when all the attention was on the (then) upcoming console releases (to the point that there was a content freeze on the PC version for four months), and the feature was quietly killed.

Right now, we're still getting updates on what's coming, it's just not concrete. And, part of that is because, when you're talking about feature updates, it's not always possible to know exactly when something will move out of evaluation into testing.

It's also a lose/lose situation. If something gets brought up by the vitriolic sector, and then gets addressed, you've encouraged that approach, which doesn't lead to a healthy community, because you're telling them, "yeah, no, that approach works, just tell us how much we suck and we'll try to fix it." And, if you don't fix it, it's an affirmation that you're only interested in people who support your position.

Phinix1 wrote: »

Not to legitimize the tact or encourage abusive "us vs. them" pitchforking...

I guess someone just has to look past the hurt feelings and angry frustration by either side and identify those points that are core issues, then bring them to light in a new, separate thread not paying lip service to the previous players at all. Maybe having a proxy spokesperson would help get the important points addressed.

If you want to do that, you're certainly welcome to try. Though, I have the suspicion that any attempt to do that would dissolve into drama over the proxy "stealing" other people's ideas.

At some level, the real solution is to simply approach the devs with a rational, clearly thought out, and evidenced argument. Without devolving into name calling and finger pointing. That stuff is not constructive and only distracts from the point you're trying to make.

Phinix1 wrote: »

But then, I have seen so many threads with literally DAYS worth of carefully compiled constructive data get basically ignored here by all parties involved. Literally, 1 or 2 people making the obligatory "GG" or "first" posts then nothing. Crickets. Go figure.

Just because the devs didn't post in a thread, it's not safe to assume they didn't see it. Sometimes they do, and were letting the community pick at it.

There's a fundamental asymmetry involved. If they weigh in on a topic, they're committing the company to that. This is why, often, when you do see a response from a dev in a thread, it will be something like Rich Lambert's "/lurk" posts. He's looking at the community's response, without committing the company to a course of action.

Which is vastly preferable to the mess you'd have if there were ZOS devs posting all over the place on topics, making promises to look at things that then got evaluated and closed internally.

Because they represent the company, they need to carefully moderate their own behavior on the forums. You'll see them in situations where they can relax, occasionally. But, developing the game is their job, but PR/Communications isn't.

Phinix1 wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

...the AOE cap that Feng throws a borderline tantrum over is actually something that was implemented because ZOS did listen to people telling them how to fix things.

Who here remembers the unkillable vampire emperors from launch?

Yeah, that AoE cap was put in the game at player demand. Because they did listen to people telling them how to fix things. And now someone else has come along and said, "no, no, no, you listened to the wrong guys, by the way this is your fault!" Yeah... I can't imagine why ZOS might not want to listen to him.

Well, to be fair there was quite a lot of feedback on this issue. Straight caps seemed sort of like a stop-gap that never quite got fleshed out. A better solution would probably have been capping the positive aspects while scaling the damage based on the number hit, allowing people to break up zergs causing extreme server lag without becoming un-killable from the heal-per-target component.

Part of the confusion is understanding what exactly is it that causes the servers to break down and cry like they do in large blob vs. blob scenarios.

Or just baking a per second cap into Devouring Swarm's heal, given that was the offender that kicked this off in the first place. To be fair some of the other assumptions that made those vampires unkillable, like being able to get devouring swarm's ultimate cost down to ~5, are gone now, as well.

Phinix1 wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

That's all anyone can do really. I mean, with an MMO? It's not like a single player release. It's never going to be a static game. It may not even exist in the same form a month or two months from now. You can take what's there, you can offer your suggestions. But, when it devolves into shouting, "no, you're wrong!" it becomes non-constructive. It's not cowardice, it's just how dialog works. You said your bit. Someone else decided if you were worth listening to or not. And here we are.

I certainly didn't mean to suggest that anyone not paying attention to rants were cowards.

It was just a (perhaps poorly worded) tangent about a trend I see in society where frustration about immigration for example, or healthcare for profit, or extortionist student loans, or whatever else is perpetuated in large part by a mindset that is so burnt out and overwhelmed with all the problems we face that even a little negativity becomes too much to bear, and so refuse to engage anymore in public discussion if there is even the slightest hint of negativity.

In fairness, the cause is fairly similar; you have people, in swarms, screaming some variation of "you suck," and dealing with them just becomes exhausting, to the point that it's easier to just shut them down, call them names, and get on with your day.

It's especially problematic when you realize that a lot of people do reduce issues down to very binary states in order to keep things more manageable. When, in reality, the world is a very complex web of competing effects, from numerous causes.

And, yes, that includes this propensity to shout down all dissent. Though I'm not sure where it came from.

Ultimately, the solution is the same, though. Research the issues, learn to communicate them efficiently and quickly.

Kahl_dur

Morbash wrote: »

Kahl_dur wrote: »

Sorry, I'm confused. Was that supposed to be a review of Thieve's Guild? Seemed more like the foul-mouthed rantings of a disgruntled streamer to me.

Sorry, I'm confused. Was your post supposed to add something of value to the discussion? If you can't handle coarse language, then please take your prudish bait post elsewhere. Feel free to come back and contribute to the discussion when you're wearing your big boy pants.

LOL. It's called sarcasm. And yes, his "Thieve's Guild review" was nothing more than a profanity-laced tirade that lacked both coherence and constructive criticism.

Mysteri0n

@FENGRUSH if you leaving can we have your stuff?

Ariisen

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Regardless of very real formal issues (pedantic use of impolite vocabulary), the main issue is the confusion between :

- There's nothing left for me => game is bad and devs are incompetent
and
- There's nothing left for me => I don't belong to the game's target audience any more, time to move and let target audience enjoy what they have.

.

I don't even follow him but he is right imho.

There's nothing left to do for anybody that has invested some time in this game, at max level (CP Cap) you can solo dungeons, two man vDSA, two man veteran Dungeons (can solo some of them) and complete 12 man trials in 10 minutes.
You can also run Prison and WGT for other 4 months if you want, or run Maelstrom again to get a better score and a weapon that you don't really need. The lack of content is embarassing...

The new trial is good news but it's not enough.

You can't expect people to stay until summer fighting for the same keeps and running one year old dungeons, let's be real.
I love(d) the game as much as most people here and even more, but it's probably time to move.

The community has been very vocal about what they want regarding PvP and PvE, and it wasn't heists and a new quest line.

Lysette

EsoRecon wrote: »

Mojmir wrote: »

Lol he makes videos on here making fun of the devs and expects them to listen to him,get a job in the real world and see how that works out.I'm all for calling them out on bs,this video is too late and they've already dismissed it. Next game u go to try a different approach.

He has tried other approaches with no luck.

Well, follow what he said carefully - at one point in time he hoped for getting money from ZOS, but he insulted them and pissed them off, and now he is getting nothing, and that is making him really angry, because as he claims other streamers make profit from it, just not him, so now he goes for revenge, at least he seems to think so - all his efforts in vain, because he cannot be a nice person and has to insult others, by no better reason than to want to profit from it - I give a damn about that.

babylon

Ariisen wrote: »

The community has been very vocal about what they want regarding PvP and PvE, and it wasn't heists and a new quest line.

I'd say this comment right here would be a case of suffering from confirmation bias.

Everyone I come across loves the Thieves Guild DLC. That's just my experience though, and I talk to a lot of different people.

Moglijuana

babylon wrote: »

EsoRecon wrote: »

Can someone explain to me why PVE players get so mad when we PVP players want something good to happen in PVP? I mean it doesn't affect you, so why get so worked up about it.

Time taken from PVE activities, nerfs in PVP affecting PVE skills, having to sit in the forum listening to even more of you whine about every single little minor thing that happened to you today...I could go on...

On ZOS's side, not sure you guys really make them all that much money anyway. Once you guys get to max level you all just sit in the same area not needing to sub and generally not buying any of the nice fun things offered in the Crown Store.

___________________

You couldn't be more wrong lol. Have you even stepped foot in Cyrodiil? Have you not seen the amount of mounts/costumes/consumables people have while in Cyrodiil? I spend probably 90% of my time in there and 1) I am subscribed 2) i have 4 different mounts 3) I have all the GOOD looking costumes (lets be honest some of them are ugly as hell) 4) I buy exp scrolls for every new toon I make (on my 5th) 5)Gota remember those mount speed upgrades! 6) You NEED Imperial City to actively farm materials and to find some consistent small scale. And I am just ONE person. My Guild with 200+ have all done the SAME thing...so what lack of money were you talking about?

Lysette

EsoRecon wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Moglijuana wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

WalkingLegacy wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

I think Fengrush has no idea about how casuals play and for how long they stay in a game. He said like 3 months and then they are leaving the game - why would they possibly do that?- They have seen like nothing from this game in 3 months, because they do neither rush through the content nor would they spend a lot of time playing - if they get to play 20 hours per month that is already a lot and if they get up to 40 they hit a boundary, where their spouses will start to seriously get mad at them.

For casuals the game content will not run out anytime soon - they simply are not gamers who would consume a game like it would be melting ice cream. They do not burn through the content like being on speed and they do not run around like squirrels from quest to quest - they try to enjoy their time in Tamriel, without stress or the insane idea, that endgame would be what the game would be about - it is not - that what hardcore gamers see as a necessary evil - the PvE content - that is their game. And that Pvp content is not much more than a necessary evil, because they will most likely never get to it anyway.

This game can perfectly live on for many years to come, paid solely by casual players - they might not play a lot, they will as well not be a burden on the servers, but they are willing to keep up a subscription for years to come - because that is what they want - enjoyable entertainment to get back to, whenever they have a couple of hours. They do not seek a challenge, but entertainment, something to get away from reality for a bit - so they stay subscribed, because this is the cheapest seen long term. And that is exactky what ZOS wants as well - reliable income for years to come - so it is a win-win situation - just not for hardcore players.

You have it so backwards sometimes.

Lysette wrote: »

Mojmir wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

I think Fengrush has no idea about how casuals play and for how long they stay in a game. He said like 3 months and then they are leaving the game - why would they possibly do that?- They have seen like nothing from this game in 3 months, because they do neither rush through the content nor would they spend a lot of time playing - if they get to play 20 hours per month that is already a lot and if they get up to 40 they hit a boundary, where their spouses will start to seriously get mad at them.

For casuals the game content will not run out anytime soon - they simply are not gamers who would consume a game like it would be melting ice cream. They do not burn through the content like being on speed and they do not run around like squirrels from quest to quest - they try to enjoy their time in Tamriel, without stress or the insane idea, that endgame would be what the game would be about - it is not - that what hardcore gamers see as a necessary evil - the PvE content - that is their game. And that Pvp content is not much more than a necessary evil, because they will most likely never get to it anyway.

This game can perfectly live on for many years to come, paid solely by casual players - they might not play a lot, they will as well not be a burden on the servers, but they are willing to keep up a subscription for years to come - because that is what they want - enjoyable entertainment to get back to, whenever they have a couple of hours. They do not seek a challenge, but entertainment, something to get away from reality for a bit - so they stay subscribed, because this is the cheapest seen long term. And that is exactky what ZOS wants as well - reliable income for years to come - so it is a win-win situation - just not for hardcore players.

so basically in a nut shell: hardcore players,pvp fanatics,and streamers picked the wrong game to invest in. not arguing just interpreting.

Of course they did - like Mr. Firor said lately, this is not the typical MMO but more of an expansive online Elder Scrolls RPG. And that is what it is going to be, you expect the wrong thing, if you think it will ever be something else.

He has said so many things, and constantly changes their agenda when they realize they can't accomplish anything. This is no different then stating their "MMO" is different than traditional MMOs. How so Matt/Lysette? Different because you're designing a single player experience but charging cash shop items that mimic an MMO?

Different as in "having no end game" - you guys are just not getting it - there is no end game and never will be - you might get an arena - another hamster cage for you to run in for a little while longer - but in fact ESO is a role playing game, an online version of an Elder Scrolls RPG - in that it is not a typical MMO. That ESO still has this hamster cage in Cyrrodil is just because it is still making some extra cash - if it will do that no longer, it might cease to be a PvP zone, who can say that now - you guys say, you will eventually leave, and think that is a threat - it is not, they might wait for you to actually do it. They cannot kick you out because you have paid for the game and are customers, but you are not the desired kind of customer, that's for certain. The whole game development is showing this.

The problem is, the Dev team hints at going in a certain direction (usually to appeal to both PvE & PvP) but then they go in a completely different direction without any discussion with the players that play their game...

Did it ever come to your mind, that ZOS has the data - they can actually see, where most players are and what they are doing most of the time - if it would be pvp, then they would cater for this more - but as it seems, it is not pvp, despite that this kind of people cry the loudest in the forum - in actual numbers they just seem to be insignificant, not worth the hassle. They are still providing some income, so you pvp guys will get some bread crumbs from time to time, but that's it. Otherwise it is an online role playing game based on the PvE and role play crowd - because, you might not believe it, they are the majority and they will stick with the game and not bail out for the next big hype, like you guys will do - bail and invade the next thing like a swarm of locusts, make people there miserable with your poison until it will be time for the locusts to bail and swarm to the next hype - and you think, you guys are preferred customers?- Now, get real.

They are trying to make the game better -_- And I am willing to bet that there was once more people playing pvp than pve, but ZOS every update does something that pushes PVP players away.

Sigh - you guys really do not get what Elder Scrolls is all about - do you? - it was never meant to be what you think it would be. Never, simply because this would p*ss off the fan base of TES. It was never meant to be a PvP-centric game, never, but Elder Scrolls with friends. Basically that what they now clearly state - an expansive online Elder Scrolls RPG - that is what it is.

waterfairy

I wonder what it's like to have such freedom in your life to whine about a game for 30 mins that you've probably played for 2 years straight.
I'd say hundreds to thousands of hours played is money well spent and neither you nor Zenimax should be upset if you're finally exhausted....there's plenty of others who will continue to play in your place.