This...

Parafrost

The whole premise of a mmo is the replayablity of the game. If it lacks lacks that, then it can't truly be categorized as a mmo, but instead a role playing game with multiplayer options. If this is what ZOS is intending to do, then they are doing a great job at that. If it isn't, then this game is just sub-par.

Enraged_Tiki_Torch

I like @Fengrush. He is a smart guy and I respect his knowledge and skill in this game. He is the kind of guy I could sit and have a beer with and talk about *** that pisses me off for sure. A lot of *** pisses me off but he would not be someone I would want to sit down, get productive and brainstorm ideas with or get his opinion on something. There is a time to vent and a time to be constructive. He could be using the respect of his followers to act as an ambassador and pursuing that but instead he chose to be a visceral voice of frustration and disappointment. Those 2 are at complete odds with what he wants from Zenimax.

In the "We are ESO" podcast any topic that is brought up, he doesn't even fully address the issues of the topic before he goes into a disrespectful rant about how inept people are. That type of attitude is disruptive and no professional is ever going to want that distraction involved. ESO has issues but Fengrush is the guy throwing gasoline on the fire and feeding off the frustrations of others. Then he wonders why Zenimax won't let the guy carrying a flamethrower and a can of gasoline in there doors.

It really sucks because his insight during those podcasts was well thought and Zenimax was listening. This is something I commend them on because very rarely do developers openly reach out and give nod to their playerbase. The fact that "Zenimax doesn't listen" is thrown around staggers me or reminds how of how inexperienced alot of people are with MMOs. Cause that is extremely rare, many have claimed they do but few did.

I know I saw one episode where @ZOS_RichLambert was there but why would anyone stick around to listen to 2hrs of people telling them how bad they are. This is where it really sucks from my perspective because I agree with a lot of Fengrush opinions and insight during those podcasts. So many great point were brought up...

AoE caps. Yeah, Zenimax remove them. However, I am convinced this is really coming from a stance of "wanting to kill larger groups of people", maybe even because of the fingerpointing that Lag is solely caused by Ballgroups. Still the first address in this video is about stam builds not being able to kill large groups of people. 100% damage on everyone? Sorry, that is clearly where this is coming from and absolutely NO on this happening. I certainly don't want Cyrodiil to become nothing but using spike AOE damage to bomb people for youtube video highlights cause 1vX videos have lost their luster. It's not good for the game, would much rather have Arenas/Battlegrounds than that proposed crap.

Fix Lag, yes because BWB is the only place to enjoy PvP right now. Sadly....

waterfairy

Nifty2g wrote: »

Maybe, just maybe, the issue is replay ability. Don't blame the top players, blame the developers for making one and done content. That isn't what you want in an MMO, you want a nice balance between it all.

True but MMO's in general feed the mentality that "I must be the best with the best gear asap"...which is why MMO's tend to have more gear grinds then proper gameplay.
I try to ignore all that and just take my time, having fun with friends and rolling several characters at once so I'm never done and never sitting waiting at the top for Zeni to throw me a bone...it's like you guys are sitting there starving for more stuff then the minute Zeni puts out DLC you gobble it up quick like a hungry dog, looking for the next piece right after the last was thrown. Chew gently

Parafrost

Vigarr wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

Maybe, just maybe, the issue is replay ability. Don't blame the top players, blame the developers for making one and done content. That isn't what you want in an MMO, you want a nice balance between it all.

True but MMO's in general feed the mentality that "I must be the best with the best gear asap"...which is why MMO's tend to have more gear grinds then proper gameplay.
I try to ignore all that and just take my time, having fun with friends and rolling several characters at once so I'm never done and never sitting waiting at the top for Zeni to throw me a bone...it's like you guys are sitting there starving for more stuff then the minute Zeni puts out DLC you gobble it up quick like a hungry dog, looking for the next piece right after the last was thrown. Chew gently

That my friend, is how a single player game is. If zos really wanted ppl to do this, they could have made dungeons have a daily limit and trials a weekly limit, but they would have to boost up the drop rates slightly to compensate for this. This would be great for casual players and it would slow down the progress of getting gear fast.

Nifty2g

Vigarr wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

Maybe, just maybe, the issue is replay ability. Don't blame the top players, blame the developers for making one and done content. That isn't what you want in an MMO, you want a nice balance between it all.

True but MMO's in general feed the mentality that "I must be the best with the best gear asap"...which is why MMO's tend to have more gear grinds then proper gameplay.
I try to ignore all that and just take my time, having fun with friends and rolling several characters at once so I'm never done and never sitting waiting at the top for Zeni to throw me a bone...it's like you guys are sitting there starving for more stuff then the minute Zeni puts out DLC you gobble it up quick like a hungry dog, looking for the next piece right after the last was thrown. Chew gently

That's why I said ZOS need a balance between all of it between each DLC. Currently we don't have that, we just keep receiving role play updates.


And like I said we used to get very good content updates but it dropped, heavily. What is even stopping them from scaling the trials?

leepalmer95

Nifty2g wrote: »

Vigarr wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

Maybe, just maybe, the issue is replay ability. Don't blame the top players, blame the developers for making one and done content. That isn't what you want in an MMO, you want a nice balance between it all.

True but MMO's in general feed the mentality that "I must be the best with the best gear asap"...which is why MMO's tend to have more gear grinds then proper gameplay.
I try to ignore all that and just take my time, having fun with friends and rolling several characters at once so I'm never done and never sitting waiting at the top for Zeni to throw me a bone...it's like you guys are sitting there starving for more stuff then the minute Zeni puts out DLC you gobble it up quick like a hungry dog, looking for the next piece right after the last was thrown. Chew gently

That's why I said ZOS need a balance between all of it between each DLC. Currently we don't have that, we just keep receiving role play updates.


And like I said we used to get very good content updates but it dropped, heavily. What is even stopping them from scaling the trials?

Probably the same thing thats stopping them bringing in arena's, looking at aoe caps, broken skill and the fact MSA was bugged.

Their putting 95% of their resources into re texturing a camel at the moment.

They use the pts like once every 4 months, i'm if they ever decided to remove aoe caps or such they could put the pts up for a week. I'll take an adjustment, instead of 6 people take 100% dmg, make it 12, then everyone else takes 50%.

WalkingLegacy

Vigarr wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

Maybe, just maybe, the issue is replay ability. Don't blame the top players, blame the developers for making one and done content. That isn't what you want in an MMO, you want a nice balance between it all.

True but MMO's in general feed the mentality that "I must be the best with the best gear asap"...which is why MMO's tend to have more gear grinds then proper gameplay.
I try to ignore all that and just take my time, having fun with friends and rolling several characters at once so I'm never done and never sitting waiting at the top for Zeni to throw me a bone...it's like you guys are sitting there starving for more stuff then the minute Zeni puts out DLC you gobble it up quick like a hungry dog, looking for the next piece right after the last was thrown. Chew gently

I'm V2 and I can't even stomach the thought of leveling an alt through the same rollercoaster ride, collecting the same skillshards and doing the same quests just to get the skillpoints.

I am already sick of doing Cadwell silver....being 'forced' to do the other areas quests just to obtain skillshards and skillpoints is a horrendous design. The lack of replay-ability before the endgame even begins is not a very good sign. Then there is the problem of: What endgame?

There's a great MMO hidden in this mess, I just hope they can find Waldo in it somewhere.

Mojmir

WalkingLegacy wrote: »

Mojmir wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

ahem

As someone who has been here since beta, i can understand where Fengrush is coming from, I didn't have much to do and I was very excited when this game first came out, there were a lot of issues around but it was incredibly fun and something good to do. The game had no real balance at all, still doesn't really lol

Once I hit veteran rank 1 for the first time, i took a break, there was simply nothing to do, no end game it was just questing, i took a break for about 3 months until Craglorn came out, and that's when I started getting into everything because raids were introduced and it brought players together they were a fun thing to do, hardmode, vdsa and sanctum all came out, there was a huge amount of influx of content all at the same time, it was great more and more players got into it. I'd have to say 1.5 was the best state this game was in, with balance issues here and there it was the most dynamic and fun.

Since then what have we got, 1 trial? a girl the other day said something pretty depressing, that she could have had 2 kids by the time ZOS released a new trial. That's pretty bad when you think about it, and the trials still haven't been increased, we still have low level trials, it's shocking really. We've been asking so much for scaled trials, because there is no content for the competitive players, we have a trial that is incredibly hard to beat and will be for quite some time until they increase the power crawl, so it's going to turn into 1 and done content, once the guilds start downing it, I highly doubt they will keep downing it - no interest.

It's like Maelstrom, we all thought that would have been amazing, I mean the first time clearing that content was so fun, now it's just boring as anything - apart from the last boss, well done on that ZOS, honestly. Most fun I have had is doing that boss them mechanics are very engaging. But everything else is just burn the bosses and then kill adds.

You have literally no idea the impact this has had on the PvE community if you take a look at then and now, you'd be disgusted by how many people have left, and keep leaving. Most of my friends have left this game and they don't plan on coming back, not because they hate it but because of the stubbornness from ZOS to release new content, and scale new content.

We keep getting these Roleplay updates, they are fun sure, but they are just money grabs there really isn't anything in this game right now to make long lasting players like myself stay, i hardly have anything to do. There is literally nothing to do in PvE, so I move to PvP and that is just incredibly unbalanced and laggymess, I have no idea how anyone plays in that, so it's not surprising to me that people leave.

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_RichLambert @ZOS_Finn I'm probably not on your good list, but I urge you guys to rethink your next DLC's, the RP stuff is fun for a few days, it doesn't keep players around, you really need to introduce DLC's that have a long last to them, I could have dropped all 3 of my purchases so far and not be at a loss at all. You should make DLC where players say to each other, you really need to get this, it's important for you to play this game in the long run.

I'm starting to get fairly fed up with the attitudes myself, I'm only really sticking around for the community and the people I have met, but every day 1 of them leaves and gives me less of a reason to stick around if nothing we say as a community is being heard on.

Please scale trials, VDSA was your most craziest and most fun dungeon/trial you have ever put out, you should scale it to keep players around, the grind for gear in there was also incredibly fun and gave people something to do.

I don't see why you can't add stuff like VDSA which honestly is the perfect direction to keep players around - a 2 man arena, 6 man arena, etc etc. Stuff like that keeps people playing for the fun and for the competition.

i was let down with how little the content is in thieves guild, but in a large scope its only been a few months since orsinium, and prior to that IC. the content is being either rushed to meet a dealine, or they simply just want to pump it out to keep us fed. we have to admit at some point we are ahead of them. this generation of gamers eats content way faster than previous. but as stated elsewhere the bickering amonst ourselves is only the art of distraction for ZOS. call it paranoid,but silence means violence. we have no one but ourselves to complain,resolve,redirect to. the SOON,no ETAS,and no plans is eating at all of us. ZOS has been given plenty by us and we've tried to lead them in a direction, but at some point we gotta narrow it down to how many directions we pull in. RP,PVP,PVE and just plain mercantile type people all have different ideas of what directions those are,we gotta give and/or compromise sometimes if were all going to get something we want.

You know the content is developed long before each DLC is released right?

Thieves and Dark Brotherhood were part of their development when the game launched.

And thats fine,so was spellcrafting.so they cant change it as they go? Come on, nothings set in stone,they proven that with knee jerk nerfs.

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Vigarr wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Hardcore people burn through 3 months of development in three days and then complain they have nothing to do for months.

This sums it up in a nutshell. They race to the top then whine that there's nothing to do once they're there. If you slow down and simply play the game instead of just focusing on the end game then there you'll have a much better time and plenty of content along the way. If you race to the treasure then you'll miss the gold along the road.

Problem is there is very little end game, theres is 1 12 man raid.

The DLC's , orsinium/TG are 1 zone, you really think people aare going to stretch that out for 3 months? That would barely last 1/2 days.

I still havent completed all the world bosses in Orsinium. I bought it right when it came out too. Not all of us rush through everything.

Lysette

People when will you get it - this game has no endgame content - it is not meant to have end game content - and it is not even worth developing it - because it takes months to do so, and you burn through it in days and will be bored and will start complaining about it again. Which developer in his right mind wants to put up with that?-

That is an everlasting and frustrating sisyphus task, because you will never be satisfied ever. They rather do what gets them money and praise - content which can be played ones per character. and If you are done with it, you either buy the next DLC (or subscribe) or simple gtfo - that's their business model, endlessly replayable content is not in their books - at least not much of it.

Mojmir

Nifty2g wrote: »

Vigarr wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

Maybe, just maybe, the issue is replay ability. Don't blame the top players, blame the developers for making one and done content. That isn't what you want in an MMO, you want a nice balance between it all.

True but MMO's in general feed the mentality that "I must be the best with the best gear asap"...which is why MMO's tend to have more gear grinds then proper gameplay.
I try to ignore all that and just take my time, having fun with friends and rolling several characters at once so I'm never done and never sitting waiting at the top for Zeni to throw me a bone...it's like you guys are sitting there starving for more stuff then the minute Zeni puts out DLC you gobble it up quick like a hungry dog, looking for the next piece right after the last was thrown. Chew gently

That's why I said ZOS need a balance between all of it between each DLC. Currently we don't have that, we just keep receiving role play updates.


And like I said we used to get very good content updates but it dropped, heavily. What is even stopping them from scaling the trials?

it might play into removal of vet ranks.

Parafrost

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Vigarr wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Hardcore people burn through 3 months of development in three days and then complain they have nothing to do for months.

This sums it up in a nutshell. They race to the top then whine that there's nothing to do once they're there. If you slow down and simply play the game instead of just focusing on the end game then there you'll have a much better time and plenty of content along the way. If you race to the treasure then you'll miss the gold along the road.

Problem is there is very little end game, theres is 1 12 man raid.

The DLC's , orsinium/TG are 1 zone, you really think people aare going to stretch that out for 3 months? That would barely last 1/2 days.

I still havent completed all the world bosses in Orsinium. I bought it right when it came out too. Not all of us rush through everything.

This is understood, but ZOS cant just appeal to one side of the spectrum. Just like how they nerfed the amount of AP needed for skills/ranks. They looked at casual players, which is fine since some people have jobs/a family to tend, but forcing everyone to play casual is not the way to go. Some people want to finish one content and move on to the next, whether it be egg collecting or whatever. Just something that is useful and rewarding to do. This is the same kind of formula GW2 has used and it is successful. If the game came out on console, i'd be hip to that game. Sometimes uniqueness can fall short of being a good game and making the game average. This is where ZOS is heading with ESO. If they took some things from mmos that are successful and improved upon it, then it will flourish.

b92303008rwb17_ESO

ZOS_CoriJ wrote: »

We are leaving this thread open to continue this topic as the video and discussion itself have valid points. Criticism is welcome. However we would appreciate a single running discussion on this issue. Multiple threads are considered spamming and will take attention away from the point trying to me made of the discussion.

We also ask that you continue to keep this discussion in the realm of debate and away from insulting other players/groups. (We had to remove a few statements.) There are plenty of good examples of players making their statements on this thread without bashing one another. This is in the interest of keeping this thread open as we will close this thread like any other that violates our general forum rules.

Criticism is welcome

But response will not be given and action not taken.

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO

Parafrost wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Vigarr wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Hardcore people burn through 3 months of development in three days and then complain they have nothing to do for months.

This sums it up in a nutshell. They race to the top then whine that there's nothing to do once they're there. If you slow down and simply play the game instead of just focusing on the end game then there you'll have a much better time and plenty of content along the way. If you race to the treasure then you'll miss the gold along the road.

Problem is there is very little end game, theres is 1 12 man raid.

The DLC's , orsinium/TG are 1 zone, you really think people aare going to stretch that out for 3 months? That would barely last 1/2 days.

I still havent completed all the world bosses in Orsinium. I bought it right when it came out too. Not all of us rush through everything.

This is understood, but ZOS cant just appeal to one side of the spectrum. Just like how they nerfed the amount of AP needed for skills/ranks. They looked at casual players, which is fine since some people have jobs/a family to tend, but forcing everyone to play casual is not the way to go. Some people want to finish one content and move on to the next, whether it be egg collecting or whatever. Just something that is useful and rewarding to do. This is the same kind of formula GW2 has used and it is successful. If the game came out on console, i'd be hip to that game. Sometimes uniqueness can fall short of being a good game and making the game average. This is where ZOS is heading with ESO. If they took some things from mmos that are successful and improved upon it, then it will flourish.

They arent. It takes time to make new content. They cant whip it out as fast as people can burn through it. So if you rush through it then dont complain about it. Also dont complain about the difficulty when the zone is accessible to a level three character. If they made it difficult for maxxed out experienced players then anyone who isnt maxxed out will be unable to play. Meaning they flushed their money. Which means they wont be back.

So thats why its rather easy seeming to you. You already know the game and have your gear etc. Level 3 guy barely has a sword.

Nifty2g

Mojmir wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

Vigarr wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

Maybe, just maybe, the issue is replay ability. Don't blame the top players, blame the developers for making one and done content. That isn't what you want in an MMO, you want a nice balance between it all.

True but MMO's in general feed the mentality that "I must be the best with the best gear asap"...which is why MMO's tend to have more gear grinds then proper gameplay.
I try to ignore all that and just take my time, having fun with friends and rolling several characters at once so I'm never done and never sitting waiting at the top for Zeni to throw me a bone...it's like you guys are sitting there starving for more stuff then the minute Zeni puts out DLC you gobble it up quick like a hungry dog, looking for the next piece right after the last was thrown. Chew gently

That's why I said ZOS need a balance between all of it between each DLC. Currently we don't have that, we just keep receiving role play updates.


And like I said we used to get very good content updates but it dropped, heavily. What is even stopping them from scaling the trials?

it might play into removal of vet ranks.

It should have been scaled a long time ago, it's absolutely shocking it hasn't
But it's okay, PvE is still alive because we introduced cross faction since we notice barely any guilds are around anymore, and we scaled the weekly loot.

Come on zos what are you even thinking at this point, because it's base game it has 0 interest to you cause it makes you no money?

Parafrost

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Parafrost wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Vigarr wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Hardcore people burn through 3 months of development in three days and then complain they have nothing to do for months.

This sums it up in a nutshell. They race to the top then whine that there's nothing to do once they're there. If you slow down and simply play the game instead of just focusing on the end game then there you'll have a much better time and plenty of content along the way. If you race to the treasure then you'll miss the gold along the road.

Problem is there is very little end game, theres is 1 12 man raid.

The DLC's , orsinium/TG are 1 zone, you really think people aare going to stretch that out for 3 months? That would barely last 1/2 days.

I still havent completed all the world bosses in Orsinium. I bought it right when it came out too. Not all of us rush through everything.

This is understood, but ZOS cant just appeal to one side of the spectrum. Just like how they nerfed the amount of AP needed for skills/ranks. They looked at casual players, which is fine since some people have jobs/a family to tend, but forcing everyone to play casual is not the way to go. Some people want to finish one content and move on to the next, whether it be egg collecting or whatever. Just something that is useful and rewarding to do. This is the same kind of formula GW2 has used and it is successful. If the game came out on console, i'd be hip to that game. Sometimes uniqueness can fall short of being a good game and making the game average. This is where ZOS is heading with ESO. If they took some things from mmos that are successful and improved upon it, then it will flourish.

They arent. It takes time to make new content. They cant whip it out as fast as people can burn through it. So if you rush through it then dont complain about it. Also dont complain about the difficulty when the zone is accessible to a level three character. If they made it difficult for maxxed out experienced players then anyone who isnt maxxed out will be unable to play. Meaning they flushed their money. Which means they wont be back.

So thats why its rather easy seeming to you. You already know the game and have your gear etc. Level 3 guy barely has a sword.

Thats why i was suggesting limits on how many times you can complete it, forcing ppl to make alts anyways. It isn't hard to develop maps at all if you have the resources, which ZOS is clearly lacking, and I understand that. The pledges is 1 step towards what I was intending for them to do. If they want their dlcs to be bought, put incentive into buying it like gear that actually makes a difference, or a complete overhaul on how stats work, because a 200 damage difference in pve isnt really going to faze me one bit.

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO

Parafrost wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Parafrost wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Vigarr wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Hardcore people burn through 3 months of development in three days and then complain they have nothing to do for months.

This sums it up in a nutshell. They race to the top then whine that there's nothing to do once they're there. If you slow down and simply play the game instead of just focusing on the end game then there you'll have a much better time and plenty of content along the way. If you race to the treasure then you'll miss the gold along the road.

Problem is there is very little end game, theres is 1 12 man raid.

The DLC's , orsinium/TG are 1 zone, you really think people aare going to stretch that out for 3 months? That would barely last 1/2 days.

I still havent completed all the world bosses in Orsinium. I bought it right when it came out too. Not all of us rush through everything.

This is understood, but ZOS cant just appeal to one side of the spectrum. Just like how they nerfed the amount of AP needed for skills/ranks. They looked at casual players, which is fine since some people have jobs/a family to tend, but forcing everyone to play casual is not the way to go. Some people want to finish one content and move on to the next, whether it be egg collecting or whatever. Just something that is useful and rewarding to do. This is the same kind of formula GW2 has used and it is successful. If the game came out on console, i'd be hip to that game. Sometimes uniqueness can fall short of being a good game and making the game average. This is where ZOS is heading with ESO. If they took some things from mmos that are successful and improved upon it, then it will flourish.

They arent. It takes time to make new content. They cant whip it out as fast as people can burn through it. So if you rush through it then dont complain about it. Also dont complain about the difficulty when the zone is accessible to a level three character. If they made it difficult for maxxed out experienced players then anyone who isnt maxxed out will be unable to play. Meaning they flushed their money. Which means they wont be back.

So thats why its rather easy seeming to you. You already know the game and have your gear etc. Level 3 guy barely has a sword.

Thats why i was suggesting limits on how many times you can complete it, forcing ppl to make alts anyways. It isn't hard to develop maps at all if you have the resources, which ZOS is clearly lacking, and I understand that. The pledges is 1 step towards what I was intending for them to do. If they want their dlcs to be bought, put incentive into buying it like gear that actually makes a difference, or a complete overhaul on how stats work, because a 200 damage difference in pve isnt really going to faze me one bit.

Ya limiting your players is exactly what they want. Come on man. Fact is the last two dlcs have been well received and have sold really well. So I think there is already plenty of incentive.

Parafrost

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Parafrost wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Parafrost wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Vigarr wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Hardcore people burn through 3 months of development in three days and then complain they have nothing to do for months.

This sums it up in a nutshell. They race to the top then whine that there's nothing to do once they're there. If you slow down and simply play the game instead of just focusing on the end game then there you'll have a much better time and plenty of content along the way. If you race to the treasure then you'll miss the gold along the road.

Problem is there is very little end game, theres is 1 12 man raid.

The DLC's , orsinium/TG are 1 zone, you really think people aare going to stretch that out for 3 months? That would barely last 1/2 days.

I still havent completed all the world bosses in Orsinium. I bought it right when it came out too. Not all of us rush through everything.

This is understood, but ZOS cant just appeal to one side of the spectrum. Just like how they nerfed the amount of AP needed for skills/ranks. They looked at casual players, which is fine since some people have jobs/a family to tend, but forcing everyone to play casual is not the way to go. Some people want to finish one content and move on to the next, whether it be egg collecting or whatever. Just something that is useful and rewarding to do. This is the same kind of formula GW2 has used and it is successful. If the game came out on console, i'd be hip to that game. Sometimes uniqueness can fall short of being a good game and making the game average. This is where ZOS is heading with ESO. If they took some things from mmos that are successful and improved upon it, then it will flourish.

They arent. It takes time to make new content. They cant whip it out as fast as people can burn through it. So if you rush through it then dont complain about it. Also dont complain about the difficulty when the zone is accessible to a level three character. If they made it difficult for maxxed out experienced players then anyone who isnt maxxed out will be unable to play. Meaning they flushed their money. Which means they wont be back.

So thats why its rather easy seeming to you. You already know the game and have your gear etc. Level 3 guy barely has a sword.

Thats why i was suggesting limits on how many times you can complete it, forcing ppl to make alts anyways. It isn't hard to develop maps at all if you have the resources, which ZOS is clearly lacking, and I understand that. The pledges is 1 step towards what I was intending for them to do. If they want their dlcs to be bought, put incentive into buying it like gear that actually makes a difference, or a complete overhaul on how stats work, because a 200 damage difference in pve isnt really going to faze me one bit.

Ya limiting your players is exactly what they want. Come on man. Fact is the last two dlcs have been well received and have sold really well. So I think there is already plenty of incentive.

How active is IC on pc? If i may ask.

Reykice

Parafrost wrote: »

The whole premise of a mmo is the replayablity of the game. If it lacks lacks that, then it can't truly be categorized as a mmo, but instead a role playing game with multiplayer options. If this is what ZOS is intending to do, then they are doing a great job at that. If it isn't, then this game is just sub-par.

Pretty much... the maelstrom arena is a good addition, we need a lot more like it... solo and group. Arenas would be nice too.

This is what a MMO should have first... add the fluff later.

Parafrost

Reykice wrote: »

Parafrost wrote: »

The whole premise of a mmo is the replayablity of the game. If it lacks lacks that, then it can't truly be categorized as a mmo, but instead a role playing game with multiplayer options. If this is what ZOS is intending to do, then they are doing a great job at that. If it isn't, then this game is just sub-par.

Pretty much... the maelstrom arena is a good addition, we need a lot more like it... solo and group. Arenas would be nice too.

This is what a MMO should have first... add the fluff later.

Couldn't agree more.

Krist

I dont know, but it seems if you take the time to do a whole video to say what you do not like about a game, you need a better life. Personally if I thought this game was that broke, I would find another one to play.....or go fishing....or do something productive with my life.

If you do not like the game, dont play it. If you like the game but do not like some aspects, stick around, things change and things get fixed and things get broke and things get nerfed and the people cheering last week will be crying this week, and the people crying last week will be cheering this week.

It's a game. When you no longer find it enjoyable, step away for a bit and do something else. I do, and come back when I am ready to enjoy again.

HAPPY GAMING!

Refuse2GrowUp

I read as far as page 9 of this thread. Somehow the conversation has digressed to a battle of PvP vs PvE and Magicka vs Stam.

This is a game, meant to be enjoyed by all. In this game we have hardcore players and we have casuals (of which the definitions of the two vary widely). We have PvPers, PvEers, quest/RPGers, Roleplayers. Funny thing is, you can be any or all of these things at the same time. Why the insistence of dividing the game into camps?

The devs should care enough about all the players in the various categories, because we are all paying customers and we will all contribute to either the success or failure of the game.

We players should all give each other respect and courtesy and permit each other to play how we each choose. It is a game. We are not all middle children, forced to compete for bread crumbs. And if we act this way, it is our fault as much as it would be ZOSs for establishing that environment.

Let's all please try to be a bit more unbiased and understanding. We all play the same game~

Nifty2g

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Parafrost wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Parafrost wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Vigarr wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Hardcore people burn through 3 months of development in three days and then complain they have nothing to do for months.

This sums it up in a nutshell. They race to the top then whine that there's nothing to do once they're there. If you slow down and simply play the game instead of just focusing on the end game then there you'll have a much better time and plenty of content along the way. If you race to the treasure then you'll miss the gold along the road.

Problem is there is very little end game, theres is 1 12 man raid.

The DLC's , orsinium/TG are 1 zone, you really think people aare going to stretch that out for 3 months? That would barely last 1/2 days.

I still havent completed all the world bosses in Orsinium. I bought it right when it came out too. Not all of us rush through everything.

This is understood, but ZOS cant just appeal to one side of the spectrum. Just like how they nerfed the amount of AP needed for skills/ranks. They looked at casual players, which is fine since some people have jobs/a family to tend, but forcing everyone to play casual is not the way to go. Some people want to finish one content and move on to the next, whether it be egg collecting or whatever. Just something that is useful and rewarding to do. This is the same kind of formula GW2 has used and it is successful. If the game came out on console, i'd be hip to that game. Sometimes uniqueness can fall short of being a good game and making the game average. This is where ZOS is heading with ESO. If they took some things from mmos that are successful and improved upon it, then it will flourish.

They arent. It takes time to make new content. They cant whip it out as fast as people can burn through it. So if you rush through it then dont complain about it. Also dont complain about the difficulty when the zone is accessible to a level three character. If they made it difficult for maxxed out experienced players then anyone who isnt maxxed out will be unable to play. Meaning they flushed their money. Which means they wont be back.

So thats why its rather easy seeming to you. You already know the game and have your gear etc. Level 3 guy barely has a sword.

Thats why i was suggesting limits on how many times you can complete it, forcing ppl to make alts anyways. It isn't hard to develop maps at all if you have the resources, which ZOS is clearly lacking, and I understand that. The pledges is 1 step towards what I was intending for them to do. If they want their dlcs to be bought, put incentive into buying it like gear that actually makes a difference, or a complete overhaul on how stats work, because a 200 damage difference in pve isnt really going to faze me one bit.

Ya limiting your players is exactly what they want. Come on man. Fact is the last two dlcs have been well received and have sold really well. So I think there is already plenty of incentive.

It's a good DLC, but is it long lasting? Absolutely not, that is why right now a lot of players are worried for the future. We need more DLC''s where a player looks at it and goes, wow i need to get that for the long run, so do my friends, or I need to stay subbed for this DLC(s)

All we are getting right now is a zone full of questing, Maelstrom Arena is fairly good but I think they went the wrong direction with that solo content, they designed it for the hardcore player but I don't think it currently attracts the hardcore player.

And then look at the IC update for the PvPers, how long did that last?

I'm just 1 player that to them is just a number, a very small number But I do hope they listen to some of this feedback

Orgrimar

Bump I want the game to last. Make a worth while endgame so players have something worth while to strive for and something that's fun. Arena pvp and battlegrounds would be nice for some variation and could be done very well. Also maybe a 2 person instance. Just more content that has top level loot and is challenging....not just one solo arena and a bunch of quests that you can do at level 3. Or not just one trial and a bunch of quests you can do at level 3.

kalimar44

DaveMoeDee

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Vigarr wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Hardcore people burn through 3 months of development in three days and then complain they have nothing to do for months.

This sums it up in a nutshell. They race to the top then whine that there's nothing to do once they're there. If you slow down and simply play the game instead of just focusing on the end game then there you'll have a much better time and plenty of content along the way. If you race to the treasure then you'll miss the gold along the road.

Problem is there is very little end game, theres is 1 12 man raid.

The DLC's , orsinium/TG are 1 zone, you really think people aare going to stretch that out for 3 months? That would barely last 1/2 days.

That is not a content issue. That is a playstyle issue. The majority of players don't play it that way. The majority of players likely take weeks to finish a DLC. I spend a lot of time in game and I know I take a long time to complete them.

Not every game is a good fit for everyone.

andryuhav

This thread was necessary! I'll share my few thoughts on the subject:
1) Stop changing mechanics and balance - fix all the bugs first! When bugs would be fixed - the whole gameplay would change by itself. Once that is done - start the balancing part.There is just way to much bugs on live, in every single aspect of the game.
2) About AOE caps - on ESO LIVE it was stated, that ZOS can't implement AOE caps without breaking the PVE part. But there is such a thing as Battle Spirit! Make AOE caps bound to Cyrodiil only with a battle spirit buff.
3) Some changes must be made to the way that the game goes. Fixing bugs every major update? Come on... this just blows. Bugs must be fixed ASAP.

DaveMoeDee

Parafrost wrote: »

The whole premise of a mmo is the replayablity of the game. If it lacks lacks that, then it can't truly be categorized as a mmo, but instead a role playing game with multiplayer options. If this is what ZOS is intending to do, then they are doing a great job at that. If it isn't, then this game is just sub-par.

No, the whole premise of a MMO is not replayability. It is whatever they design it to be. Which letter in MMO indicates replayability?

The fact that we have new DLC every quarter shows this game isn't assuming repetition.

The "an MMO must be this" arguments are not persuasive.

Loralai_907

I love how people think that was @FENGRUSH going off and "yelling" and swearing all over the place lol. My opinion, that was pretty tame. He got heated a couple times, but really he isn't flipping out nearly as bad as some of you are implying. A lot of what he said makes sense. And I think he gets mad because of the potential being wasted, and what this game could be. I don't think he wants to see it fail or that he has it out for anyone specifically. I also don't think this is coming from the same place a lot of people seem to think it is coming from.

How many of you have been around since Beta? If you have, how many of you can say that the core group you knew at the beginning are still playing and are happy? How about if you started a year ago? What do your numbers look like?

My local guild, I'm the only one that has been around since Beta. I have so many inactives, a few newbies, and a few mid way type people. Most of the gamers up here wouldn't even play it in the first place, they wouldn't touch it because they thought it would be bad. Some played during Beta and walked away. Some didn't play at all. This is a group of 10k gamers I'm talking about here. Most of the people, in or out of my gaming community, that I have legit played with, are gone. I have a new person that just started yesterday, but she means I have to start over, again, so I have someone to regularly play with.

From the get go I was so dam happy about this game. I had avoided all MMO's until this one came out. I played during Beta, and that was it for me, I wanted to play this forever lol. I didn't understand why my gaming community was so negative about it. Being my first go at this sort of game, it took me a long time to finish my first character. I now have 2 done, one more on its way, multiple lower levels, and countless deleted characters I changed my mind on by level 20. AND I work full time and full time parent by my self, so I have limited playing time. I waited on PvP because my computer was crap until maybe 6 months ago. And since then, all I hear is how bad it is, so now I don't know if I should even try or wait to see if they fix it.

And all of this rubbish about what the game is about. Look, for those of us that started at the very beginning, we can assure you what they said then and what they have said since then are not the same thing. Which whatever, but it irritates the hell out of me, play with your friends this isn't a regular MMO talk. Because that is NOT the same line I was fed. I can't wait to see what the next line is going to be. And when that next line comes out, exactly how different will the game be compared to right now or compared to a year ago?

And look, I'm not saying the game is the worst. It isn't. I still intend to play it, figure out a new path that makes me happy. I have too much invested and I have to help out the newbies in my guild. I just hope that I'm not holding on to nothing. I really hope that they can fix PvP, and they scale up dungeons and trials and all of that. I have no answers on how to fix anything, so I have no suggestions there. But I know that the long timers need more to keep hanging on. Like others have said, the replayability is garbage right now. It makes me sad. Because this game COULD be so much more. And unfortunately for me, I don't like being a sneaky stealing player, it doesn't suit my play style, so I really am not fond of the TG. I want the dam assistant, so I might force my way through it kicking and screaming lol. But, there is nothing really in this new DLC for me, and that sucks for me. I know tons of people love it, I know its a me issue, and I'm fine with it. I just want to be excited about the game again. So who knows, maybe it will happen, maybe it won't.

Anyways, I never say anything and here I have typed out a dam novel, so I'm going to quit here.

leepalmer95

DaveMoeDee wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Vigarr wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Hardcore people burn through 3 months of development in three days and then complain they have nothing to do for months.

This sums it up in a nutshell. They race to the top then whine that there's nothing to do once they're there. If you slow down and simply play the game instead of just focusing on the end game then there you'll have a much better time and plenty of content along the way. If you race to the treasure then you'll miss the gold along the road.

Problem is there is very little end game, theres is 1 12 man raid.

The DLC's , orsinium/TG are 1 zone, you really think people aare going to stretch that out for 3 months? That would barely last 1/2 days.

That is not a content issue. That is a playstyle issue. The majority of players don't play it that way. The majority of players likely take weeks to finish a DLC. I spend a lot of time in game and I know I take a long time to complete them.

Not every game is a good fit for everyone.

No, even new players wouldn't take weeks to complete the 1 zon dlc's. Stop over estimating them. The dlc is at most what 15-20 hours of questing at MOST.

Some players will do it in 3 days, some will take a week. Others maybe 2, but for 3 months worth? Not at all, the only re playability of it is the trial which requires you to be in a very good pve guilds, have a max character, 400+ cp's and have the best in slot gear for your role to complete it.

How do you know what the majority of players do?