This...

Moglijuana

rfennell_ESO wrote: »

Moglijuana wrote: »

None of these recent comments are moving this discussion forward...just bashing the opinions of a loyal player...

rotaugen454 wrote: »

I'm not going to sweat it if some of the elites that have all day to play video games leave because it isn't what they want, I'll just play the game and have fun. I send in suggestions and bug reports, but don't ever feel the need to rant about a video game.

@FENGRUSH works 9-5 bro... so this elite vision you have for good players is probably wrong...

he streams to 6 am on workdays lol. I mean what more needs be said?

He likes streaming to his fans? He doesn't like sleeping? idk who cares? It's his stream.

Morozov

Gidorick wrote: »

FENG RUSH makes one fatal mistake in his assessment of ESO... not all of us are "Long Term MMO Players".. many MANY of us are "Long Term TES Players"

But overall... He's pretty spot on with his criticisms.

this statement sheds some light of why the game has become what it is. Seems a majority of players are PVE/RP players who want another Skyrim experience. So with this said, as long as ZOS fixes what is wrong and affects the casual player roaming the wilderness in a quick fashion then they can put everything else on a backburner.

PVP balance and lag will not be fixed. The PVP community has come to realize this and did so a long time ago.

Ragnaroek93

It's funny how he says that all players want aoe caps removed, than in fact only a small minority wants them to be removed. The minority who thinks sticking on the crown and spam steel tornado/proxy det/purge/vigor/... is the highlight of PvP and that large scale PvP is the work of the devil. Yeah... congratulation... bombzergs aren't better than zergs in my opinion. And I don't miss the fotm batswarm DK meta like he does probably.

Pretty sad, instead of helping ZOS to balance the classes these "pro players" want ZOS to balance the game around their playstile which means being able to 1vs20 again so that they get more subscriptions on twitch and youtube. That is not better PvP. It is only better PvP for THEM and NOT for the majority of people and ZOS probably knows that (actually I hope that they know).

EsoRecon

Lysette wrote: »

Moglijuana wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

WalkingLegacy wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

I think Fengrush has no idea about how casuals play and for how long they stay in a game. He said like 3 months and then they are leaving the game - why would they possibly do that?- They have seen like nothing from this game in 3 months, because they do neither rush through the content nor would they spend a lot of time playing - if they get to play 20 hours per month that is already a lot and if they get up to 40 they hit a boundary, where their spouses will start to seriously get mad at them.

For casuals the game content will not run out anytime soon - they simply are not gamers who would consume a game like it would be melting ice cream. They do not burn through the content like being on speed and they do not run around like squirrels from quest to quest - they try to enjoy their time in Tamriel, without stress or the insane idea, that endgame would be what the game would be about - it is not - that what hardcore gamers see as a necessary evil - the PvE content - that is their game. And that Pvp content is not much more than a necessary evil, because they will most likely never get to it anyway.

This game can perfectly live on for many years to come, paid solely by casual players - they might not play a lot, they will as well not be a burden on the servers, but they are willing to keep up a subscription for years to come - because that is what they want - enjoyable entertainment to get back to, whenever they have a couple of hours. They do not seek a challenge, but entertainment, something to get away from reality for a bit - so they stay subscribed, because this is the cheapest seen long term. And that is exactky what ZOS wants as well - reliable income for years to come - so it is a win-win situation - just not for hardcore players.

You have it so backwards sometimes.

Lysette wrote: »

Mojmir wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

I think Fengrush has no idea about how casuals play and for how long they stay in a game. He said like 3 months and then they are leaving the game - why would they possibly do that?- They have seen like nothing from this game in 3 months, because they do neither rush through the content nor would they spend a lot of time playing - if they get to play 20 hours per month that is already a lot and if they get up to 40 they hit a boundary, where their spouses will start to seriously get mad at them.

For casuals the game content will not run out anytime soon - they simply are not gamers who would consume a game like it would be melting ice cream. They do not burn through the content like being on speed and they do not run around like squirrels from quest to quest - they try to enjoy their time in Tamriel, without stress or the insane idea, that endgame would be what the game would be about - it is not - that what hardcore gamers see as a necessary evil - the PvE content - that is their game. And that Pvp content is not much more than a necessary evil, because they will most likely never get to it anyway.

This game can perfectly live on for many years to come, paid solely by casual players - they might not play a lot, they will as well not be a burden on the servers, but they are willing to keep up a subscription for years to come - because that is what they want - enjoyable entertainment to get back to, whenever they have a couple of hours. They do not seek a challenge, but entertainment, something to get away from reality for a bit - so they stay subscribed, because this is the cheapest seen long term. And that is exactky what ZOS wants as well - reliable income for years to come - so it is a win-win situation - just not for hardcore players.

so basically in a nut shell: hardcore players,pvp fanatics,and streamers picked the wrong game to invest in. not arguing just interpreting.

Of course they did - like Mr. Firor said lately, this is not the typical MMO but more of an expansive online Elder Scrolls RPG. And that is what it is going to be, you expect the wrong thing, if you think it will ever be something else.

He has said so many things, and constantly changes their agenda when they realize they can't accomplish anything. This is no different then stating their "MMO" is different than traditional MMOs. How so Matt/Lysette? Different because you're designing a single player experience but charging cash shop items that mimic an MMO?

Different as in "having no end game" - you guys are just not getting it - there is no end game and never will be - you might get an arena - another hamster cage for you to run in for a little while longer - but in fact ESO is a role playing game, an online version of an Elder Scrolls RPG - in that it is not a typical MMO. That ESO still has this hamster cage in Cyrrodil is just because it is still making some extra cash - if it will do that no longer, it might cease to be a PvP zone, who can say that now - you guys say, you will eventually leave, and think that is a threat - it is not, they might wait for you to actually do it. They cannot kick you out because you have paid for the game and are customers, but you are not the desired kind of customer, that's for certain. The whole game development is showing this.

The problem is, the Dev team hints at going in a certain direction (usually to appeal to both PvE & PvP) but then they go in a completely different direction without any discussion with the players that play their game...

Did it ever come to your mind, that ZOS has the data - they can actually see, where most players are and what they are doing most of the time - if it would be pvp, then they would cater for this more - but as it seems, it is not pvp, despite that this kind of people cry the loudest in the forum - in actual numbers they just seem to be insignificant, not worth the hassle. They are still providing some income, so you pvp guys will get some bread crumbs from time to time, but that's it. Otherwise it is an online role playing game based on the PvE and role play crowd - because, you might not believe it, they are the majority and they will stick with the game and not bail out for the next big hype, like you guys will do - bail and invade the next thing like a swarm of locusts, make people there miserable with your poison until it will be time for the locusts to bail and swarm to the next hype - and you think, you guys are preferred customers?- Now, get real.

They are trying to make the game better -_- And I am willing to bet that there was once more people playing pvp than pve, but ZOS every update does something that pushes PVP players away.

rotaugen454

Moglijuana wrote: »

None of these recent comments are moving this discussion forward...just bashing the opinions of a loyal player...

rotaugen454 wrote: »

I'm not going to sweat it if some of the elites that have all day to play video games leave because it isn't what they want, I'll just play the game and have fun. I send in suggestions and bug reports, but don't ever feel the need to rant about a video game.

@FENGRUSH works 9-5 bro... so this elite vision you have for good players is probably wrong...

Does he put in several hours a day? That is way more than the average person has availablle. When I was a young, unmarried guy with a 9-5 job and no real responsibilities beyond that, I could play computer games for hours a day.

I'm not bashing the opinions, just saying I still enjoy the game and won't worry about it. I don't mind those who have tons of time getting some areas they can finish that most of us can't. In the end, it is just a game, and that is all it will ever be. I'll play it as long as I enjoy it, and if I decide to move on to something else, I won't make expletive-filled rants about it.

Mady

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

It's funny how he says that all players want aoe caps removed, than in fact only a small minority wants them to be removed..

I'm pretty sure there was a poll asking if players want AOE caps or not and about 80% voted No AOE caps. Still got AOE caps.
But I could remember it wrong. Long time ago tho.

EsoRecon

rotaugen454 wrote: »

Moglijuana wrote: »

None of these recent comments are moving this discussion forward...just bashing the opinions of a loyal player...

rotaugen454 wrote: »

I'm not going to sweat it if some of the elites that have all day to play video games leave because it isn't what they want, I'll just play the game and have fun. I send in suggestions and bug reports, but don't ever feel the need to rant about a video game.

@FENGRUSH works 9-5 bro... so this elite vision you have for good players is probably wrong...

Does he put in several hours a day? That is way more than the average person has availablle. When I was a young, unmarried guy with a 9-5 job and no real responsibilities beyond that, I could play computer games for hours a day.

I'm not bashing the opinions, just saying I still enjoy the game and won't worry about it. I don't mind those who have tons of time getting some areas they can finish that most of us can't. In the end, it is just a game, and that is all it will ever be. I'll play it as long as I enjoy it, and if I decide to move on to something else, I won't make expletive-filled rants about it.

Well that's cause you don't care about the game. You are just here to feed ZOS your money.

rfennell_ESO

EsoRecon wrote: »

They are trying to make the game better for themselves

Most of the complaints by the streaming hardcore is all about what will be good for them.

When "Rangers" groups are recruiting for ranger3, every single one of them is just someone trying to enjoy pvp and not aoe bombed by Fengrush and Essa. That's a heck of a lot of people to sacrafice so Fengrush can make a video extolling his amazingness as their expense.

Moglijuana

Lysette wrote: »

Moglijuana wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

WalkingLegacy wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

I think Fengrush has no idea about how casuals play and for how long they stay in a game. He said like 3 months and then they are leaving the game - why would they possibly do that?- They have seen like nothing from this game in 3 months, because they do neither rush through the content nor would they spend a lot of time playing - if they get to play 20 hours per month that is already a lot and if they get up to 40 they hit a boundary, where their spouses will start to seriously get mad at them.

For casuals the game content will not run out anytime soon - they simply are not gamers who would consume a game like it would be melting ice cream. They do not burn through the content like being on speed and they do not run around like squirrels from quest to quest - they try to enjoy their time in Tamriel, without stress or the insane idea, that endgame would be what the game would be about - it is not - that what hardcore gamers see as a necessary evil - the PvE content - that is their game. And that Pvp content is not much more than a necessary evil, because they will most likely never get to it anyway.

This game can perfectly live on for many years to come, paid solely by casual players - they might not play a lot, they will as well not be a burden on the servers, but they are willing to keep up a subscription for years to come - because that is what they want - enjoyable entertainment to get back to, whenever they have a couple of hours. They do not seek a challenge, but entertainment, something to get away from reality for a bit - so they stay subscribed, because this is the cheapest seen long term. And that is exactky what ZOS wants as well - reliable income for years to come - so it is a win-win situation - just not for hardcore players.

You have it so backwards sometimes.

Lysette wrote: »

Mojmir wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

I think Fengrush has no idea about how casuals play and for how long they stay in a game. He said like 3 months and then they are leaving the game - why would they possibly do that?- They have seen like nothing from this game in 3 months, because they do neither rush through the content nor would they spend a lot of time playing - if they get to play 20 hours per month that is already a lot and if they get up to 40 they hit a boundary, where their spouses will start to seriously get mad at them.

For casuals the game content will not run out anytime soon - they simply are not gamers who would consume a game like it would be melting ice cream. They do not burn through the content like being on speed and they do not run around like squirrels from quest to quest - they try to enjoy their time in Tamriel, without stress or the insane idea, that endgame would be what the game would be about - it is not - that what hardcore gamers see as a necessary evil - the PvE content - that is their game. And that Pvp content is not much more than a necessary evil, because they will most likely never get to it anyway.

This game can perfectly live on for many years to come, paid solely by casual players - they might not play a lot, they will as well not be a burden on the servers, but they are willing to keep up a subscription for years to come - because that is what they want - enjoyable entertainment to get back to, whenever they have a couple of hours. They do not seek a challenge, but entertainment, something to get away from reality for a bit - so they stay subscribed, because this is the cheapest seen long term. And that is exactky what ZOS wants as well - reliable income for years to come - so it is a win-win situation - just not for hardcore players.

so basically in a nut shell: hardcore players,pvp fanatics,and streamers picked the wrong game to invest in. not arguing just interpreting.

Of course they did - like Mr. Firor said lately, this is not the typical MMO but more of an expansive online Elder Scrolls RPG. And that is what it is going to be, you expect the wrong thing, if you think it will ever be something else.

He has said so many things, and constantly changes their agenda when they realize they can't accomplish anything. This is no different then stating their "MMO" is different than traditional MMOs. How so Matt/Lysette? Different because you're designing a single player experience but charging cash shop items that mimic an MMO?

Different as in "having no end game" - you guys are just not getting it - there is no end game and never will be - you might get an arena - another hamster cage for you to run in for a little while longer - but in fact ESO is a role playing game, an online version of an Elder Scrolls RPG - in that it is not a typical MMO. That ESO still has this hamster cage in Cyrrodil is just because it is still making some extra cash - if it will do that no longer, it might cease to be a PvP zone, who can say that now - you guys say, you will eventually leave, and think that is a threat - it is not, they might wait for you to actually do it. They cannot kick you out because you have paid for the game and are customers, but you are not the desired kind of customer, that's for certain. The whole game development is showing this.

The problem is, the Dev team hints at going in a certain direction (usually to appeal to both PvE & PvP) but then they go in a completely different direction without any discussion with the players that play their game...

Did it ever come to your mind, that ZOS has the data - they can actually see, where most players are and what they are doing most of the time - if it would be pvp, then they would cater for this more - but as it seems, it is not pvp, despite that this kind of people cry the loudest in the forum - in actual numbers they just seem to be insignificant, not worth the hassle. They are still providing some income, so you pvp guys will get some bread crumbs from time to time, but that's it. Otherwise it is an online role playing game based on the PvE and role play crowd - because, you might not believe it, they are the majority and they will stick with the game and not bail out for the next big hype, like you guys will do - bail and invade the next thing like a swarm of locusts, make people there miserable with your poison until it will be time for the locusts to bail and swarm to the next hype - and you think, you guys are preferred customers?- Now, get real.

Thank you for NOT moving the discussion forward but rather accusing me as a "locust" who feels like a preferred customer. I could care LESS about what ZOS thinks of me as a player, because frankly they don't even care lol. do they care about you? Nope, not you either. I don't plan on quitting this game either because I don't ONLY pvp. So again, thank you for your opinion as that is all it is (even though it is wrong as I'll be playing this game for years). I applaud you for looking like an entitled PvE'er. You keep avoiding those red circles bro! I didn't even know a PvE player could come off as entitled, but you sure proved me wrong. Maybe you should join some of these "locusts" you're so afraid of, you would fit right in!

EsoRecon

I just now realized that the majority of people left are skyrim players. Well I have something for you. This isn't that type of game. Now don't get me wrong I absolutely loved skyrim, but ESO isn't skyrim. So there should be good pvp and things to do at end game. It shouldn't just be an RP quester game. It's an MMO!

WalkingLegacy

rfennell_ESO wrote: »

EsoRecon wrote: »

They are trying to make the game better for themselves

Most of the complaints by the streaming hardcore is all about what will be good for them.

When "Rangers" groups are recruiting for ranger3, every single one of them is just someone trying to enjoy pvp and not aoe bombed by Fengrush and Essa. That's a heck of a lot of people to sacrafice so Fengrush can make a video extolling his amazingness as their expense.

Your comment on 'hardcore' streamers is probably close to truth, but while I generally dislike Fengrush, his TG rant video is spot on.

It's harsh criticism for sure, but the really nice critisim is being ignored as well.

CtrlAltDlt

I Agree with Fengrush here

Mush55

I take it this is another mainly PvP moan fest...

EsoRecon

Mush55 wrote: »

I take it this is another mainly PvP moan fest...

yes

WalkingLegacy

EsoRecon wrote: »

Mush55 wrote: »

I take it this is another mainly PvP moan fest...

yes

No, watch the video.

EsoRecon

WalkingLegacy wrote: »

EsoRecon wrote: »

Mush55 wrote: »

I take it this is another mainly PvP moan fest...

yes

No, watch the video.

Hey man I've seen the vid and am completely on Fengrush's side here. But you can't deny the fact that we are again moaning for something to be done to pvp.

Callous2208

Mush55 wrote: »

I take it this is another mainly PvP moan fest...

As usual.

sneakymitchell

This Game I want to be playing for years to come but it seems to me that it will be every few months or so.

But I do play the game when there is no other game out there that keeps me interested.

I'm sick of dealing with bugs every big patch and then ZOS has to clean the bugs up during the months till the next. Then we will have to deal more bugs after the next big patch.

The great cycle continues of big patch notes and bugs every so month.

Remember folks keep the ball rolling cause someday that ball will stop for good!!!!

Hope499

keybaud wrote: »

Not My Video. Just thought some more more people should see it.

FENG RUSH Youtube: https://youtube.com/channel/UC0qKzzZV1yf_nnrPQc2YcWA

FENG RUSH Twitch: https://twitch.tv/fengrush/profile

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o33iczl2PxE

My fav part:

"How do you expect people to keep playing Zenimax??"

As he is sitting there, playing it. lol.


I agree with lots of what he says, but a little overboard to say the least.

Waffennacht

Who cares? he's on PC

EsoRecon

Can someone explain to me why PVE players get so mad when we PVP players want something good to happen in PVP? I mean it doesn't affect you, so why get so worked up about it.

Morbash

Kahl_dur wrote: »

Sorry, I'm confused. Was that supposed to be a review of Thieve's Guild? Seemed more like the foul-mouthed rantings of a disgruntled streamer to me.

Sorry, I'm confused. Was your post supposed to add something of value to the discussion? If you can't handle coarse language, then please take your prudish bait post elsewhere. Feel free to come back and contribute to the discussion when you're wearing your big boy pants.

Mady

Mady wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

It's funny how he says that all players want aoe caps removed, than in fact only a small minority wants them to be removed..

I'm pretty sure there was a poll asking if players want AOE caps or not and about 80% voted No AOE caps. Still got AOE caps.
But I could remember it wrong. Long time ago tho.

"Someone" sent me the link to the thread:

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/88049/do-you-think-there-should-be-an-aoe-cap/p1

Over 4000 votes
That's just another part of 'not listening'. But people still say "they try". Maybe they actually do, but not as hard as possible!

Mush55

WalkingLegacy wrote: »

EsoRecon wrote: »

Mush55 wrote: »

I take it this is another mainly PvP moan fest...

yes

No, watch the video.

Of some person I have never heard of moaning about things that have been changed or not changed to his likeing .

No thanks, if you dont like the direction the game is going don't play it simples.

Zyle

EsoRecon wrote: »

Can someone explain to me why PVE players get so mad when we PVP players want something good to happen in PVP? I mean it doesn't affect you, so why get so worked up about it.

Mostly because PvPers get blamed for any terrible change done by ZOS.

RobboEU

rotaugen454

Mady wrote: »

Mady wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

It's funny how he says that all players want aoe caps removed, than in fact only a small minority wants them to be removed..

I'm pretty sure there was a poll asking if players want AOE caps or not and about 80% voted No AOE caps. Still got AOE caps.
But I could remember it wrong. Long time ago tho.

"Someone" sent me the link to the thread:

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/88049/do-you-think-there-should-be-an-aoe-cap/p1

Over 4000 votes
That's just another part of 'not listening'. But people still say "they try". Maybe they actually do, but not as hard as possible!

What % of the total player base are the 3700 who said "no AOE cap"? What % of players even ever get on the forums?

DaveMoeDee

Mojmir wrote: »

Lol he makes videos on here making fun of the devs and expects them to listen to him,get a job in the real world and see how that works out.I'm all for calling them out on [snip],this video is too late and they've already dismissed it. Next game u go to try a different approach.

I may not agree with him on some things, but I at least recognize that he does have a job IRL.

So the 'get a job' ad hominem attack doesn't work in this case.
[edited to remove quote]

Preyfar

I disagree with some of the issues brought up, and I'm a hardcore PVPer. Granted, I don't broadcast on Twitch, so I'm not a known quantity. That said, I do want ZOS to communicate more with what's happening, what's planned and lay down a proper road ahead. ZOS is aware of the lag, and has done an admirable job with the TG patch of improving it. Still a long ways to go.

I think there's a lot more pressing questions which ZOS needs to ask itself, and to the community. What's the long term PVP plan? Where is Cyrodiil going to be in five years, because as it is, it's mostly the same fights day in, day out. Fighting over the same keeps on the same landmass gets dull, and if this were Coutner-Strike, it'd be the eqv. of a de_dust 24/7 server. I want some variety.

I want to PVP in Daedric realms, in war torn battlefields, in cities and more. I don't see Cyrodiil being a PVP staple for years to come.

That said, I think ESO has some of the best PVP in its class (when it works).

TheDarkShadow

Though there are mods that check out the forums and keep it out of fire, I doubt the devs actually notice much of it (left alone a 30m vid on youtube). Too many conflicted opinions, everyone insist that theirs are valid and they are the majority, sometime the argue on the 3rd page have nothing to do with the problem on the 1st. If you spend all your work time try to read thru them all, you will finally get lost and have no time left to do any actual fixing or updating on the game.
I think when they make dicision, they go thru their data, like: how many people playing within the last few months, how many % go to Cyrodiil, how many AP they made, how many doing pledge, how many time? How many people spend how much time in trial or Maelstrom Arena? What's the average level of players who played in the last few months. How much money each group of players spent on the game... It's where they get the idea which group of customers they would focus on next DLC. The others groups would shared lesser development time and resource.
So... yeah, I guess the hardcore pvp players and hardcore players in general isn't the majority of this game.