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EsoRecon✭✭✭✭✭SemiD4rkness wrote: »SemiD4rkness wrote: »SemiD4rkness wrote: »SemiD4rkness wrote: »SemiD4rkness wrote: »
This. As a loooong time TES franchise fan I hate this game with a passion. It's a HORRIBLE Elder Scrolls game, and even worse MMO. True TES players would agree with me, this game shouldn't even be considered part of the TES franchise.
I've been playing ES games since Arena. To me, Skyrim is by far the worst ES game, not this.
Isn't it great how people can have differing opinions?
I literally can't stand people who thinks this game is good (pve) I just don't, and if you're one of them don't talk to me because your opinion is irrelevant to me.
You seem a pleasant sort of person.
As you go through life, you will meet people who's opinions don't match your own. Deal with that little fact of life.
Nah, I ignore real life casuals too
So, would you define a casual how? How exactly is a casual measured? I for instance work a lot, have an SO to tend to, planning going back to education, and can't play for 12 hours a day every day. If having a real life makes me a casual, then I'm very proud to be a casual
I was making a joke... Ive already told you if you enjoy a single quest this game has you're a casual.
How about if I enjoy single quests and PVP and trials?
Still a casual.
You throw that word around like it carries any weight to an argument. It doesn't. It's just strawman, especially as the biggest portion of the player base is here for Elder Scrolls stories. I can however see when I've hit a brick wall with someone who believes throwing names around is a valid argument.
Enjoy your "hardcore" PVP experience in a game where it doesn't exist!
Although if they add arenas, I'll happily come and kick your toon to the planes of Oblivion!
Yo what are you guys even arguing about anymore?Xbox One [ NA ]
Gamertag - Zyzz II Legacy
Stam Sorc & Stam NB PvP
(I'm Just Here To 1vX)0 -
Mady✭✭✭✭✭It's amusing that once a streamer says something how many loyal followers come out of the woodwork to preach their gospel words.
The games been in a mess PvP wise for a while, just because a single streamer gets butt hurt about an update doesn't mean the end times are coming. He can go play another game and then get butt hurt about that at some point as well.
Meanwhile many of us will remain here and help ZOS build on the game accepting not everything can be magically fixed in a single patch.
Actually this is happening every DLC/update. Nothing really changed that much to say 'Yes, they really try as hard as possible'. I play since beta and tired to see how this game is getting worse with every update. And I don't only look at the content. It's everything around, too.
[snip] the next DLC. Make a HUGE bug fix update and everyone is happy. I can wait for new content until the end of the year, if at least the game would run fine.
[edited for profanity bypass]Edited by ZOS_Icy on July 12, 2026 12:30PMDiscord HypeSquad MemberOfficial AlcastHQ Discord Server: discord.gg/alcasthq
Feel free to join!Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that it was vanity. But the dreamers of the day are dangerous men for they may act their dream with open eyes, to make it possible.0 -
JD2013✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Moglijuana wrote: »
Actually, a lot of these side stories are far better written than most MMO's and indeed Skyrim. I prefer this to "go and get me 20 wolves tails because reasons!!"
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_CoriJ on March 15, 2016 3:30PMSweetrolls for all!
Christophe Mottierre - Breton Templar with his own whole darn estate! Templar Houses are so 2015. EU DC
PC Beta Tester January 2014
Elder of The Black
Order of Sithis
The Runners
@TamrielTraverse - For Tamriel related Twitter shenanigans!
https://tamrieltraveller.wordpress.com/
Crafting bag OP! ZOS nerf pls!5 -
SemiD4rkness✭✭✭✭✭SemiD4rkness wrote: »SemiD4rkness wrote: »SemiD4rkness wrote: »SemiD4rkness wrote: »SemiD4rkness wrote: »
This. As a loooong time TES franchise fan I hate this game with a passion. It's a HORRIBLE Elder Scrolls game, and even worse MMO. True TES players would agree with me, this game shouldn't even be considered part of the TES franchise.
I've been playing ES games since Arena. To me, Skyrim is by far the worst ES game, not this.
Isn't it great how people can have differing opinions?
I literally can't stand people who thinks this game is good (pve) I just don't, and if you're one of them don't talk to me because your opinion is irrelevant to me.
You seem a pleasant sort of person.
As you go through life, you will meet people who's opinions don't match your own. Deal with that little fact of life.
Nah, I ignore real life casuals too
So, would you define a casual how? How exactly is a casual measured? I for instance work a lot, have an SO to tend to, planning going back to education, and can't play for 12 hours a day every day. If having a real life makes me a casual, then I'm very proud to be a casual
I was making a joke... Ive already told you if you enjoy a single quest this game has you're a casual.
How about if I enjoy single quests and PVP and trials?
Still a casual.
You throw that word around like it carries any weight to an argument. It doesn't. It's just strawman, especially as the biggest portion of the player base is here for Elder Scrolls stories. I can however see when I've hit a brick wall with someone who believes throwing names around is a valid argument.
Enjoy your "hardcore" PVP experience in a game where it doesn't exist!
Although if they add arenas, I'll happily come and kick your toon to the planes of Oblivion!
1v1 I would destroy you with my stamina templar that's for sure. While you've been ''saving the world'' in unchallenging quests i've been practicing, so no a fight is not an option. Also I do know there's not real pvp in this game that's the reason I left it.0 -
SemiD4rkness✭✭✭✭✭Moglijuana wrote: »SemiD4rkness wrote: »SemiD4rkness wrote: »SemiD4rkness wrote: »SemiD4rkness wrote: »SemiD4rkness wrote: »
This. As a loooong time TES franchise fan I hate this game with a passion. It's a HORRIBLE Elder Scrolls game, and even worse MMO. True TES players would agree with me, this game shouldn't even be considered part of the TES franchise.
I've been playing ES games since Arena. To me, Skyrim is by far the worst ES game, not this.
Isn't it great how people can have differing opinions?
I literally can't stand people who thinks this game is good (pve) I just don't, and if you're one of them don't talk to me because your opinion is irrelevant to me.
You seem a pleasant sort of person.
As you go through life, you will meet people who's opinions don't match your own. Deal with that little fact of life.
Nah, I ignore real life casuals too
So, would you define a casual how? How exactly is a casual measured? I for instance work a lot, have an SO to tend to, planning going back to education, and can't play for 12 hours a day every day. If having a real life makes me a casual, then I'm very proud to be a casual
I was making a joke... Ive already told you if you enjoy a single quest this game has you're a casual.
How about if I enjoy single quests and PVP and trials?
Still a casual.
You throw that word around like it carries any weight to an argument. It doesn't. It's just strawman, especially as the biggest portion of the player base is here for Elder Scrolls stories. I can however see when I've hit a brick wall with someone who believes throwing names around is a valid argument.
Enjoy your "hardcore" PVP experience in a game where it doesn't exist!
I'm pretty sure these "stories" you are speaking of are more comparable to those crossword puzzles on the back of cereal boxes...bc honestly they suck and take the mental capacity of a three year old to get through.
Oh man so much THIS +10000001 -
JD2013✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭SemiD4rkness wrote: »SemiD4rkness wrote: »SemiD4rkness wrote: »SemiD4rkness wrote: »SemiD4rkness wrote: »SemiD4rkness wrote: »
This. As a loooong time TES franchise fan I hate this game with a passion. It's a HORRIBLE Elder Scrolls game, and even worse MMO. True TES players would agree with me, this game shouldn't even be considered part of the TES franchise.
I've been playing ES games since Arena. To me, Skyrim is by far the worst ES game, not this.
Isn't it great how people can have differing opinions?
I literally can't stand people who thinks this game is good (pve) I just don't, and if you're one of them don't talk to me because your opinion is irrelevant to me.
You seem a pleasant sort of person.
As you go through life, you will meet people who's opinions don't match your own. Deal with that little fact of life.
Nah, I ignore real life casuals too
So, would you define a casual how? How exactly is a casual measured? I for instance work a lot, have an SO to tend to, planning going back to education, and can't play for 12 hours a day every day. If having a real life makes me a casual, then I'm very proud to be a casual
I was making a joke... Ive already told you if you enjoy a single quest this game has you're a casual.
How about if I enjoy single quests and PVP and trials?
Still a casual.
You throw that word around like it carries any weight to an argument. It doesn't. It's just strawman, especially as the biggest portion of the player base is here for Elder Scrolls stories. I can however see when I've hit a brick wall with someone who believes throwing names around is a valid argument.
Enjoy your "hardcore" PVP experience in a game where it doesn't exist!
Although if they add arenas, I'll happily come and kick your toon to the planes of Oblivion!
1v1 I would destroy you with my stamina templar that's for sure. While you've been ''saving the world'' in unchallenging quests i've been practicing, so no a fight is not an option. Also I do know there's not real pvp in this game that's the reason I left it.
Well if you've left then that's neither here nor there then is it?
Sweetrolls for all!
Christophe Mottierre - Breton Templar with his own whole darn estate! Templar Houses are so 2015. EU DC
PC Beta Tester January 2014
Elder of The Black
Order of Sithis
The Runners
@TamrielTraverse - For Tamriel related Twitter shenanigans!
https://tamrieltraveller.wordpress.com/
Crafting bag OP! ZOS nerf pls!1 -
Phinix1✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭starkerealm wrote: »...
I enjoyed reading your post. It was refreshingly objective and I respect you for it, so thanks for taking the time.starkerealm wrote: »Nothing cowardly about it. There's no point to engaging with a chorus of people who have nothing more constructive to say than, "you suck!"
So what happens when one of them has a valid point? They get ignored. Because they're standing next to twenty other people who don't, and are busy chanting, "you suck," over, and over, and over again, and have nothing of value to contribute.
I can understand where you are coming from here, and while that may hold true for the average forum-goer and casual commentator, I don't think leaders and developers really have the luxury of playing "boy-who-cried-wolf" on certain issues. A better response would probably be to just give certain people a "time out" when they are posting non-constructive fodder, temporarily putting them on ignore. Or, better yet, flag certain people as "said something worth listening to in the past" so that they show up with a little star on your ignore filter.
starkerealm wrote: »Case in point.
I mean, here you've made a legitimate point: There are balance issues between the classes. And, you've wrapped it in a cynical and abusive tone. Which, I mean, as a content creator, I'd look at that and say, "nope, not even going to bother," and move on.
You had a legitimate point, but now it's lost, because you set it up as an insult.
Again you make an important point. If you want attention paid to your ideas, it is best to phrase them in an approachable tone. Believe me, I encounter this frequently from certain rude and entitled people that post demands on my addon pages. Demands! For something I do for free! And they can't even be bothered to not be a &^%! about it. Yeah. No.
HOWEVER, there are important limits to that formula. A certain level of frustration has to be understandable when dealing with a customer-vendor relationship. If this were a perfect vacuum that would be one thing (and of course we are all people first and should be respectful to one another), but when there is a product being sold and money on the line, the rules change a little.
That doesn't mean it is appropriate to be abusive, but then I would hardly call that statement abusive. Cynical, maybe. But as a business, you have to be prepared to understand that if a customer has purchased something and it is not meeting their expectations, then so long as those expectations are reasonable, that feedback must be considered as worth listening to, even simply from a business standpoint.
Yes, if ALL the guy had done for 30 minutes was yell "you suck" it might be hard to see the point. And watching it again, he does yell "you suck" a lot. He does make some legitimate points, and I think the reason it appeals is because there is a lot of resonant frustration that gets amplified by affirmation.
I have never seen a gaming community that goes so out of their way to theory-craft and write up spreadsheets and databases of information for the devs to pour over than this one. Maybe the perceived lack of resolution to core issues is the reason a rant that otherwise would pass as inconsequential catches like wildfire?
I think the most important solution ZOS should take away from things like this is that people simply want a timetable, setting reasonable expectations for progress on top priority issues. With proper communication these things would be far less relevant.
Not to legitimize the tact or encourage abusive "us vs. them" pitchforking...
I guess someone just has to look past the hurt feelings and angry frustration by either side and identify those points that are core issues, then bring them to light in a new, separate thread not paying lip service to the previous players at all. Maybe having a proxy spokesperson would help get the important points addressed.
But then, I have seen so many threads with literally DAYS worth of carefully compiled constructive data get basically ignored here by all parties involved. Literally, 1 or 2 people making the obligatory "GG" or "first" posts then nothing. Crickets. Go figure.starkerealm wrote: »...the AOE cap that Feng throws a borderline tantrum over is actually something that was implemented because ZOS did listen to people telling them how to fix things.
Who here remembers the unkillable vampire emperors from launch?
Yeah, that AoE cap was put in the game at player demand. Because they did listen to people telling them how to fix things. And now someone else has come along and said, "no, no, no, you listened to the wrong guys, by the way this is your fault!" Yeah... I can't imagine why ZOS might not want to listen to him.
Well, to be fair there was quite a lot of feedback on this issue. Straight caps seemed sort of like a stop-gap that never quite got fleshed out. A better solution would probably have been capping the positive aspects while scaling the damage based on the number hit, allowing people to break up zergs causing extreme server lag without becoming un-killable from the heal-per-target component.
Part of the confusion is understanding what exactly is it that causes the servers to break down and cry like they do in large blob vs. blob scenarios.starkerealm wrote: »That's all anyone can do really. I mean, with an MMO? It's not like a single player release. It's never going to be a static game. It may not even exist in the same form a month or two months from now. You can take what's there, you can offer your suggestions. But, when it devolves into shouting, "no, you're wrong!" it becomes non-constructive. It's not cowardice, it's just how dialog works. You said your bit. Someone else decided if you were worth listening to or not. And here we are.
I certainly didn't mean to suggest that anyone not paying attention to rants were cowards.
It was just a (perhaps poorly worded) tangent about a trend I see in society where frustration about immigration for example, or healthcare for profit, or extortionist student loans, or whatever else is perpetuated in large part by a mindset that is so burnt out and overwhelmed with all the problems we face that even a little negativity becomes too much to bear, and so refuse to engage anymore in public discussion if there is even the slightest hint of negativity.
It is particularly dangerous when one super-conglomerate owns the media in question, as seeing this effect it becomes obvious that all they have to do to control a population is to inundate them with enough emotionally overwhelming adversity (ala Facebook viral negativity experiment) that they become desensitized, and so just give up confronting the important issues that DO need rising above.
I understand, times are tough, there is a lot of fear and doubt, and I don't mean to muddy the waters here and now by bringing up that larger social phenomenon in the context of an entertainment venue.
Perhaps it is best to leave political science to politics and focus on what needs fixing.
Maybe then we can get more serious attention paid to HOW.
Edited by Phinix1 on March 15, 2016 2:17PM6 -
Nolphi✭✭✭I have been following Fengrush and some of the other hardcore streamers for a while and in his defense the frustration has simply been building up for too long. ZOS needs to understand that a simple PVP arena will solve so much of the longevity issues this game will have especially with players that have been here for so long... its such an easy thing to add and such an elementary need you will be fulfilling for so many players...Clan Nolphi Family Gaming
Follow @kingnolphi on twitter5 -
Moglijuana✭✭✭✭✭Moglijuana wrote: »SemiD4rkness wrote: »SemiD4rkness wrote: »SemiD4rkness wrote: »SemiD4rkness wrote: »SemiD4rkness wrote: »
This. As a loooong time TES franchise fan I hate this game with a passion. It's a HORRIBLE Elder Scrolls game, and even worse MMO. True TES players would agree with me, this game shouldn't even be considered part of the TES franchise.
I've been playing ES games since Arena. To me, Skyrim is by far the worst ES game, not this.
Isn't it great how people can have differing opinions?
I literally can't stand people who thinks this game is good (pve) I just don't, and if you're one of them don't talk to me because your opinion is irrelevant to me.
You seem a pleasant sort of person.
As you go through life, you will meet people who's opinions don't match your own. Deal with that little fact of life.
Nah, I ignore real life casuals too
So, would you define a casual how? How exactly is a casual measured? I for instance work a lot, have an SO to tend to, planning going back to education, and can't play for 12 hours a day every day. If having a real life makes me a casual, then I'm very proud to be a casual
I was making a joke... Ive already told you if you enjoy a single quest this game has you're a casual.
How about if I enjoy single quests and PVP and trials?
Still a casual.
You throw that word around like it carries any weight to an argument. It doesn't. It's just strawman, especially as the biggest portion of the player base is here for Elder Scrolls stories. I can however see when I've hit a brick wall with someone who believes throwing names around is a valid argument.
Enjoy your "hardcore" PVP experience in a game where it doesn't exist!
I'm pretty sure these "stories" you are speaking of are more comparable to those crossword puzzles on the back of cereal boxes...bc honestly they suck and take the mental capacity of a three year old to get through.
Actually, a lot of these side stories are far better written than most MMO's and indeed Skyrim. I prefer this to "go and get me 20 wolves tails because reasons!!"
The only quests that stood out to me were the guild quests and the main story. Everything else just seemed like a chore. Orsinium was a bit better as the new scenery helped. But how long will the population be satisfied with "better than most" quests...If you want to quest play something like the Witcher, or Dragon Age.Edited by Moglijuana on March 15, 2016 2:17PM2 -
ZOS_CoriJ✭✭✭✭✭We are leaving this thread open to continue this topic as the video and discussion itself have valid points. Criticism is welcome. However we would appreciate a single running discussion on this issue. Multiple threads are considered spamming and will take attention away from the point trying to me made of the discussion.
We also ask that you continue to keep this discussion in the realm of debate and away from insulting other players/groups. (We had to remove a few statements.) There are plenty of good examples of players making their statements on this thread without bashing one another. This is in the interest of keeping this thread open as we will close this thread like any other that violates our general forum rules.The Elder Scrolls Online: Tamriel Unlimited - ZeniMax Online Studios
Forum Rules | Code of Conduct | Terms of Service | Home Page | Help Site
No longer available to take PMs or messages: Please defer to another Moderator15 -
RobboEU✭✭✭We are leaving this thread open to continue this topic as the video and discussion itself have valid points. Criticism is welcome. However we would appreciate a single running discussion on this issue. Multiple threads are considered spamming and will take attention away from the point trying to me made of the discussion.
We also ask that you continue to keep this discussion in the realm of debate and away from insulting other players/groups. (We had to remove a few statements.) There are plenty of good examples of players making their statements on this thread without bashing one another. This is in the interest of keeping this thread open as we will close this thread like any other that violates our general forum rules.
we as a community politely ask if you take action on the issues raised
Also if removing the other threads make it clear within the topics title what this thread is regarding.Edited by RobboEU on March 15, 2016 3:57PM3 -
DaveMoeDee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I have been following Fengrush and some of the other hardcore streamers for a while and in his defense the frustration has simply been building up for too long. ZOS needs to understand that a simple PVP arena will solve so much of the longevity issues this game will have especially with players that have been here for so long... its such an easy thing to add and such an elementary need you will be fulfilling for so many players...
I think they understand that some people really want arenas and now they seem to be working on it.
But my prediction is different than yours. Arenas will not solve complaints. When arenas launch, we will see countless posts here complaining about class balance in arenas (no matter how the game is designed).
The important contribution of arenas will be to provide small scale PvP without lag. It will be a positive in that respect. It will be a major step backwards for balance since it is just an additional game mode to have to balance.4 -
Randactyl✭✭✭magnusthorek wrote: »I'm so glad that I'm not the only player who is not "afraid" of speak my mind and point ruthlessly what the hell is going on.
And then, something obscure and not publicly mentioned is changed requiring us to re-accept the TOS (otherwise we can't even login anymore) like if we could even compare to the older text (who is paranoid enough to keep "version control" of TOSs) and we read it carefully just to see that basically the whole Section 6 is a general [snip] off saying exactly what Feng said but with legal speech.
...
Or, you know, you could search to see if someone did run a diff on it.
From dominoid on reddit (https://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/4admyq/news_new_terms_of_service_today_heres_whats/)Apparently all of Zenimax Media uses the same Terms of Service so there are a lot of changes with regards to Fallout4, Mods and the new Bethesda.net site. I didn't fully go through the changes, but I'm sure if someone finds something interesting it will be pointed out in the comments.
diff: https://www.diffchecker.com/6ct2yiae
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on July 12, 2026 12:32PMRandactyl | NA Megaserver | Blood for the Pact! | Sun's Death, Chrysamere Pact
My Addons
Beta Addons
Check out my GitHub repos to follow my latest changes and see some addons before they are released.0 -
Valn✭✭✭✭✭We are leaving this thread open to continue this topic as the video and discussion itself have valid points. Criticism is welcome. However we would appreciate a single running discussion on this issue. Multiple threads are considered spamming and will take attention away from the point trying to me made of the discussion.
We also ask that you continue to keep this discussion in the realm of debate and away from insulting other players/groups. (We had to remove a few statements.) There are plenty of good examples of players making their statements on this thread without bashing one another. This is in the interest of keeping this thread open as we will close this thread like any other that violates our general forum rules.
Gonna quote this directly from the video
"Go look at the forums, go look at any flipping sub forum on your forums and you have a bunch of people going in there saying "Hey guys, please be respectful in your posts"."2 -
Moglijuana✭✭✭✭✭Woo! I'm glad this thread is open again. I don't really care for the arguing, I'd rather see discussions to help make this game WE ALL WANT IT TO BE. The best MMO out there!
What would help the community the most to appeal to their desires? I feel like an actual community ambassador would help ZOS tremendously. Atm they seem way too transparent for an MMO developer.Edited by Moglijuana on March 15, 2016 3:56PM0 -
ZOS_CoriJ✭✭✭✭✭we as a community politely if you take action on the issues raised
Also if removing the other threads make it clear within the topics title what this thread is regarding.
This is an excellent suggestion. Thank you for your feedback.
We had hoped that posting that the thread was temporarily locked was enough clarity, however if the lock itself alarms people we will consider editing titles as well if this is more informative.
[edited for Eldruf]
Both suggestions were of course good ones.Edited by ZOS_CoriJ on March 15, 2016 4:16PMThe Elder Scrolls Online: Tamriel Unlimited - ZeniMax Online Studios
Forum Rules | Code of Conduct | Terms of Service | Home Page | Help Site
No longer available to take PMs or messages: Please defer to another Moderator1 -
DaveMoeDee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Shader_Shibes wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »The real question is, once VRs are gone, will we see the trial drops scaling to CR160 (or higher), or will they keep their current CR equivalent tiers of gear?
I will bet you $1000 they will be the v12/14 equivalent.
You are correct in that changing trial drop tables have no connection with coding CP gear tier changes. CP gear tiers is just direct mapping from VR tiers. It doesn't involve any adjustments to trial drops.
While it makes sense to retain some old content at old difficulty levels, removing VR greatly reduces the value of all v1-v15 content and gear as most alts will jump from 50 straight to max level gear and power. The Silver and Gold zones can be kept for leveling first characters, but more content will need to be bumped up to max level. If there was ever a time when it made sense to upgrade trial drop tables, it would be during the removal of VR.0 -
DovresMalven✭✭✭Agree with Fengrush 100%. Corporate Greed has ruined what might have been a nice addition to the Elder Scrolls universe if it was handled much much differently.Dovres Malven
- Aldmeri Dominion7 -
RobboEU✭✭✭Also if removing the other threads make it clear within the topics title what this thread is regarding.
This is an excellent suggestion. Thank you for your feedback.
We had hoped that posting that the thread was temporarily locked was enough clarity, however if the lock itself alarms people we will consider editing titles as well if this is more informative.We are leaving this thread open to continue this topic as the video and discussion itself have valid points. Criticism is welcome. However we would appreciate a single running discussion on this issue. Multiple threads are considered spamming and will take attention away from the point trying to me made of the discussion.
We also ask that you continue to keep this discussion in the realm of debate and away from insulting other players/groups. (We had to remove a few statements.) There are plenty of good examples of players making their statements on this thread without bashing one another. This is in the interest of keeping this thread open as we will close this thread like any other that violates our general forum rules.
we as a community politely if you take action on the issues raised
Also if removing the other threads make it clear within the topics title what this thread is regarding.
This part of the suggestion not?
0 -
Lysette✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭WalkingLegacy wrote: »I think Fengrush has no idea about how casuals play and for how long they stay in a game. He said like 3 months and then they are leaving the game - why would they possibly do that?- They have seen like nothing from this game in 3 months, because they do neither rush through the content nor would they spend a lot of time playing - if they get to play 20 hours per month that is already a lot and if they get up to 40 they hit a boundary, where their spouses will start to seriously get mad at them.
For casuals the game content will not run out anytime soon - they simply are not gamers who would consume a game like it would be melting ice cream. They do not burn through the content like being on speed and they do not run around like squirrels from quest to quest - they try to enjoy their time in Tamriel, without stress or the insane idea, that endgame would be what the game would be about - it is not - that what hardcore gamers see as a necessary evil - the PvE content - that is their game. And that Pvp content is not much more than a necessary evil, because they will most likely never get to it anyway.
This game can perfectly live on for many years to come, paid solely by casual players - they might not play a lot, they will as well not be a burden on the servers, but they are willing to keep up a subscription for years to come - because that is what they want - enjoyable entertainment to get back to, whenever they have a couple of hours. They do not seek a challenge, but entertainment, something to get away from reality for a bit - so they stay subscribed, because this is the cheapest seen long term. And that is exactky what ZOS wants as well - reliable income for years to come - so it is a win-win situation - just not for hardcore players.
You have it so backwards sometimes.I think Fengrush has no idea about how casuals play and for how long they stay in a game. He said like 3 months and then they are leaving the game - why would they possibly do that?- They have seen like nothing from this game in 3 months, because they do neither rush through the content nor would they spend a lot of time playing - if they get to play 20 hours per month that is already a lot and if they get up to 40 they hit a boundary, where their spouses will start to seriously get mad at them.
For casuals the game content will not run out anytime soon - they simply are not gamers who would consume a game like it would be melting ice cream. They do not burn through the content like being on speed and they do not run around like squirrels from quest to quest - they try to enjoy their time in Tamriel, without stress or the insane idea, that endgame would be what the game would be about - it is not - that what hardcore gamers see as a necessary evil - the PvE content - that is their game. And that Pvp content is not much more than a necessary evil, because they will most likely never get to it anyway.
This game can perfectly live on for many years to come, paid solely by casual players - they might not play a lot, they will as well not be a burden on the servers, but they are willing to keep up a subscription for years to come - because that is what they want - enjoyable entertainment to get back to, whenever they have a couple of hours. They do not seek a challenge, but entertainment, something to get away from reality for a bit - so they stay subscribed, because this is the cheapest seen long term. And that is exactky what ZOS wants as well - reliable income for years to come - so it is a win-win situation - just not for hardcore players.
so basically in a nut shell: hardcore players,pvp fanatics,and streamers picked the wrong game to invest in. not arguing just interpreting.
Of course they did - like Mr. Firor said lately, this is not the typical MMO but more of an expansive online Elder Scrolls RPG. And that is what it is going to be, you expect the wrong thing, if you think it will ever be something else.
He has said so many things, and constantly changes their agenda when they realize they can't accomplish anything. This is no different then stating their "MMO" is different than traditional MMOs. How so Matt/Lysette? Different because you're designing a single player experience but charging cash shop items that mimic an MMO?
Different as in "having no end game" - you guys are just not getting it - there is no end game and never will be - you might get an arena - another hamster cage for you to run in for a little while longer - but in fact ESO is a role playing game, an online version of an Elder Scrolls RPG - in that it is not a typical MMO. That ESO still has this hamster cage in Cyrrodil is just because it is still making some extra cash - if it will do that no longer, it might cease to be a PvP zone, who can say that now - you guys say, you will eventually leave, and think that is a threat - it is not, they might wait for you to actually do it. They cannot kick you out because you have paid for the game and are customers, but you are not the desired kind of customer, that's for certain. The whole game development is showing this.Edited by Lysette on March 15, 2016 4:02PM7 -
Tiphis✭✭✭✭Agree with Fengrush completely. I only still play because I love the universe and lore. As a pvp'er I play this game for the major siege battles and other games for the BG's/arenas.3 -
dennissomb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭After watching the video, without meaning to pick on fengrush in particular most of what I heard was "me and other streamers want (insert whatever here)" and if you don't do it your game will fail and you suck. Some of the actual points he discussed were still very much personal preference. I can agree with some and not others. What I cannot agree with is statements like "ZOS Doesn't want feedback" or "everyone wants AOE caps removed etc. It is a huge community all with different wants that ZOS needs to balance out while they continue the game.
AOE caps as an example. Some streamers and forum warriors want it, many don't. I remember the fiasco no AOE caps had in Warhammer where two fire sorcs could kill dozens and dozens of people at a time. It was simply stupid.
You can take all the discussions around lack of class balance/nerfs/buffs, cut and paste the general concept and put them into the forums of any MMO with PvP and it will fit right in. This game is hardly unique when it comes to class balance discussions.
Every MMO forums is filled with "end of the world" posts. In the end people will play whatever game they enjoy. It may be going back to an older game, trying newer ones, or doing what they enjoy here10 -
olsborg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The biggest issue I have with zos in history was leaving nirnhoned on armor in the game in its broken state for 6+ months. Ridiculous.
PC EU
PvP only6 -
EsoRecon✭✭✭✭✭dennissomb16_ESO wrote: »After watching the video, without meaning to pick on fengrush in particular most of what I heard was "me and other streamers want (insert whatever here)" and if you don't do it your game will fail and you suck. Some of the actual points he discussed were still very much personal preference. I can agree with some and not others. What I cannot agree with is statements like "ZOS Doesn't want feedback" or "everyone wants AOE caps removed etc. It is a huge community all with different wants that ZOS needs to balance out while they continue the game.
AOE caps as an example. Some streamers and forum warriors want it, many don't. I remember the fiasco no AOE caps had in Warhammer where two fire sorcs could kill dozens and dozens of people at a time. It was simply stupid.
You can take all the discussions around lack of class balance/nerfs/buffs, cut and paste the general concept and put them into the forums of any MMO with PvP and it will fit right in. This game is hardly unique when it comes to class balance discussions.
Every MMO forums is filled with "end of the world" posts. In the end people will play whatever game they enjoy. It may be going back to an older game, trying newer ones, or doing what they enjoy here
Well if those dozens of players don't know how to play they deserve to die.Xbox One [ NA ]
Gamertag - Zyzz II Legacy
Stam Sorc & Stam NB PvP
(I'm Just Here To 1vX)0 -
rfennell_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭The problem with the "casuals" argument is that it implies that "hardcore" is good and "casual" is bad.
With raiding, I can get the argument.
In pvp... the hardcore are the problem though. They work hard to reverse the perception, doesn't mean it isn't so though.
People celebrate Fengrush and his ranting... but last I checked he spends most of his time trying to gank pve players in IC... running at orc sprint with a train of mobs running around the zone and spamming wrecking blow on people fighting pve content. Not saying he doesn't do anything else, but that's his primary "vocation" in this game, a ganker abusing mechanics to harass and annoy people.
He will show up to keep battles to "farm AP" and ofttimes shows up with a red zerg who leave him alone. I've seen him enter the breach with a red zerg... He's not playing the realm war, he's just an AP farmer running solo most of the time trying to get people to follow him on twitch. It's doubtful he makes much, as you don't have to actually subscribe at 4.99 to watch his videos... which by Twitch is the only way he gets paid.
Lastly, on the casual vs hardcore argument. You do need to keep in mind that casual = normal person with a job and family. Hardcore is often the opposite of that.
Past all that... when is the last time you saw Fengrush make a positive contribution to anything? Do you see him "help" people on the forums? Do you see him testing out build and posting videos? Do you actually see anything that even resembles theorycrafting from him? I answer more questions and try and be helpful than Fengrush... and I'm mostly a troll, even worse I'm an anonymous troll... even so, if you take a look you will see there is a distinct difference in behavior.
P.S. the hardcore are ALWAYS bailing for the newest game.17 -
Moglijuana✭✭✭✭✭WalkingLegacy wrote: »I think Fengrush has no idea about how casuals play and for how long they stay in a game. He said like 3 months and then they are leaving the game - why would they possibly do that?- They have seen like nothing from this game in 3 months, because they do neither rush through the content nor would they spend a lot of time playing - if they get to play 20 hours per month that is already a lot and if they get up to 40 they hit a boundary, where their spouses will start to seriously get mad at them.
For casuals the game content will not run out anytime soon - they simply are not gamers who would consume a game like it would be melting ice cream. They do not burn through the content like being on speed and they do not run around like squirrels from quest to quest - they try to enjoy their time in Tamriel, without stress or the insane idea, that endgame would be what the game would be about - it is not - that what hardcore gamers see as a necessary evil - the PvE content - that is their game. And that Pvp content is not much more than a necessary evil, because they will most likely never get to it anyway.
This game can perfectly live on for many years to come, paid solely by casual players - they might not play a lot, they will as well not be a burden on the servers, but they are willing to keep up a subscription for years to come - because that is what they want - enjoyable entertainment to get back to, whenever they have a couple of hours. They do not seek a challenge, but entertainment, something to get away from reality for a bit - so they stay subscribed, because this is the cheapest seen long term. And that is exactky what ZOS wants as well - reliable income for years to come - so it is a win-win situation - just not for hardcore players.
You have it so backwards sometimes.I think Fengrush has no idea about how casuals play and for how long they stay in a game. He said like 3 months and then they are leaving the game - why would they possibly do that?- They have seen like nothing from this game in 3 months, because they do neither rush through the content nor would they spend a lot of time playing - if they get to play 20 hours per month that is already a lot and if they get up to 40 they hit a boundary, where their spouses will start to seriously get mad at them.
For casuals the game content will not run out anytime soon - they simply are not gamers who would consume a game like it would be melting ice cream. They do not burn through the content like being on speed and they do not run around like squirrels from quest to quest - they try to enjoy their time in Tamriel, without stress or the insane idea, that endgame would be what the game would be about - it is not - that what hardcore gamers see as a necessary evil - the PvE content - that is their game. And that Pvp content is not much more than a necessary evil, because they will most likely never get to it anyway.
This game can perfectly live on for many years to come, paid solely by casual players - they might not play a lot, they will as well not be a burden on the servers, but they are willing to keep up a subscription for years to come - because that is what they want - enjoyable entertainment to get back to, whenever they have a couple of hours. They do not seek a challenge, but entertainment, something to get away from reality for a bit - so they stay subscribed, because this is the cheapest seen long term. And that is exactky what ZOS wants as well - reliable income for years to come - so it is a win-win situation - just not for hardcore players.
so basically in a nut shell: hardcore players,pvp fanatics,and streamers picked the wrong game to invest in. not arguing just interpreting.
Of course they did - like Mr. Firor said lately, this is not the typical MMO but more of an expansive online Elder Scrolls RPG. And that is what it is going to be, you expect the wrong thing, if you think it will ever be something else.
He has said so many things, and constantly changes their agenda when they realize they can't accomplish anything. This is no different then stating their "MMO" is different than traditional MMOs. How so Matt/Lysette? Different because you're designing a single player experience but charging cash shop items that mimic an MMO?
Different as in "having no end game" - you guys are just not getting it - there is no end game and never will be - you might get an arena - another hamster cage for you to run in for a little while longer - but in fact ESO is a role playing game, an online version of an Elder Scrolls RPG - in that it is not a typical MMO. That ESO still has this hamster cage in Cyrrodil is just because it is still making some extra cash - if it will do that no longer, it might cease to be a PvP zone, who can say that now - you guys say, you will eventually leave, and think that is a threat - it is not, they might wait for you to actually do it. They cannot kick you out because you have paid for the game and are customers, but you are not the desired kind of customer, that's for certain. The whole game development is showing this.
The problem is, the Dev team hints at going in a certain direction (usually to appeal to both PvE & PvP) but then they go in a completely different direction without any discussion with the players that play their game...1 -
DaveMoeDee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Moglijuana wrote: »Woo! I'm glad this thread is open again. I don't really care for the arguing, I'd rather see discussions to help make this game WE ALL WANT IT TO BE. The best MMO out there!
What would help the community the most to appeal to their desires? I feel like an actual community ambassador would help ZOS tremendously. Atm they seem way too transparent for an MMO developer.
I appreciate the sentiment.
Personally, I don't compare this to other "MMOs". If other MMOs are better at MMOing, that is fine with me. I have no idea what other MMOs do apart from what I hear second hand.
I like that this is in Tamriel. I enjoy the gameplay. I enjoy the narrative. I enjoy interacting with other people, grouping in dungeons, talking nonsense in Teamspeak in Cyrodiil. I enjoy developing my characters and crossing achievements off. I enjoy trying the game with different classes and with different attribute focuses. I like having persistence in my character in a gaming environment I can't control.
How does this compare to other MMOs? I don't know and I don't care. I don't say this to be contrary. I say this just to point out that a lot of devoted ESO fans are not comparing this game to other MMOs. My concern is whether I enjoy the game. I enjoy it. I might play a lot less the month before a DLC drop as I run out of fresh content and lose interest in repetition, but I am very satisfied with the game and I'm not sure I want to play any game 365 days a year.
Regarding being the best, no game will be the best at everything. Developers pick where they want to excel and they can be the best at that niche.Edited by DaveMoeDee on March 15, 2016 4:17PM4
This discussion has been closed.