This...

EsoRecon

JD2013 wrote: »

EsoRecon wrote: »

CASUALS go home to skyrim pls! this game isn't for you.

HARDCORE PVP PLAYERS go and find a game that better suits your PVP needs!

We can all do that and it gets us nowhere.

Do you want to go to war bud?

tinythinker

I don't agree with everything FR said, but that's fine. I doubt he cares. I prefer inverting AoE caps in Cyrodiil to removing them, for example; but, honestly, it doesn't matter because I don't see either one being done. Still I do understand where he is coming from, and so do many other long time players. I recently read an interview with Matt Firor about how awesome the game is doing, and it probably is from a sales standpoint. For now. Yet I do agree with FR that many long term players are getting fed up or getting bored. Nor is this surprising. Check out this comment made in April 2015:

tinythinker wrote: »

Each player that gets bored/fed up while playing the same content over and over while dealing with seemingly immortal bugs is a loss of revenue from unsubbing, from loss of cash shop purchases, and from negative word of mouth to other potential players.

Maybe some players expect perfection right now, according to their own narrow notion of what perfection in ESO would look like. But I suspect many just want to have a reason to keep playing, either because some serious problem has finally been fixed, some new area has been released, etc. For those who've been VR for several months and who have gone through the existing content multiple times, the wait for a new dungeons or zone since the last drop is getting old. Some players who started at release are just now getting to VR14, and some just to VR1. But even they will eventually hit the "What else is there to do?" wall. Many players have already been camped at that wall for a while now.

How quickly a player reaches that wall depends on how much time you have to play and what parts of the game you enjoy the most. I enjoy everything in the game and even though I have a VR14 DK and a VR14 Templar I still need to finish getting my Sorc to VR14. I also have a Nightblade sitting at VR1. And another Sorc waiting patiently at what, level 5 or 7? I actually don't think of doing the Alliance zones *yet again* to be a total chore because I love the settings, stories, art, etc. And my crafters are taking forever to get good at anything, so that's still something to work on. I further break all of that up with PvP, Craglorn delves, group dungeons, etc. So I can extend my detours and slow my approach to that wall. Yet many have already gotten tired of waiting next to it and have moved on. Others are seriously considering joining them, especially since they see no reason to stay subbed and can wait things out playing other games.

Automatically bashing or defending ZOS/ESO isn't something I have any interest in. Constructive criticism should be listened to seriously, and not just to cherry pick the examples that fit with pre-existing plans. I have no idea how the people running ZOS actually respond to criticism in private, but in public it really does come off as "We understand some people don't like some things, we're going to fix the bugs, give us some time, now stop complaining."

A lot of what FR talked about comes down to the current business model, which is a group-optional solo content theme park. As such, there needs to be new "rides" coming out on a regular basis and new prizes in the cash shop to keep making money. People can say there should be more this, that, or the other, whether it's internal testing and development, focus on PvP, class balancing, etc, but getting out the new costumes, mount skins, and solo-oriented PvE format DLC is priority #1, and everything else is a distant second or third at best.

And that isn't cynicism. It's just smart business with the type of B2P model ZOS has embraced with ESO. Maybe Firor and Lambert truly believe that is the best model for their product, the best way to make enough money to keep ESO going and to put out something at least close to the original vision of the game. Maybe they hope the model will even out and allow them to catch up on bug fixes, a Cyrodiil refit, etc. I can't stand here and claim "No Matt, there is a better way; here, read my business plan."

You can read my older comment as either support for that business plan (giving people new zones/quests every quarter), or you can read it as support for creating stable/balanced content with good replay value. It's actually both. But that wall I mentioned is still an issue. I don't think people actually get upset that new content is being delivered every quarter though. It's the nature of the content and more importantly the quality of the content. And also, to a large extent, it's perpetual frustration over transparency and clarity of vision. You can go back to the PC launch and see complaints about that.

The Road Ahead, which was supposed to help with such concerns, quickly became the Road in Review and then just vanished. The exciting previews from QuakeCon 2014 were a one-time deal, and ever since the same footage keeps getting shown over and over (but soon it will all be old from either released or canceled content). What is the new vision? Other than some vague names or hints? ("We know.") Is there a vision for the next 9-18 months? Why is it top secret? Fear of player disappointment if those plans don't 100% materialize?

It's cool that some thing like Spellcrafting and Justice System Part 2 got canceled or put on indefinite hiatus. Changes happen. I would have liked JS Part 2, but I get it. Plans for something like an MMORPG are *always* fluid. But having lack of transparency, inadequate sharing of big picture design goals and plans (with the caveat that the ideas are tentative), releasing updates with large numbers of awful bugs as par for the course and having bugs hang around for years, and no public concern about or regular/informative status reports on plans to fix/enhance/expand content and features to keep more long term players (housing, trials, PvP, etc)? That is a recipe for a lack of confidence and fertile ground for rumors, negative assumptions, jaded video rants, and bitter forum posts. Those things breed toxicity and make it harder for ZOS and the players to understand each other.

Unlike FR, I don't care if ZOS communicates directly to me personally or gives a damn about my dozens of silly suggestions for the game. I'm just one player among hundreds of thousands. If I end up leaving some day over frustration or boredom, no one at ZOS will even notice. That's sensible and expected. But I fail to see why there is a never-ending issue with adequate communication with *us*, the community at large. Despite making it personal and being impolite, FR made some valid points, as have many people in other streams, on the forums, on Reddit, etc, about their concerns. Whatever you made of the video the OP posted, it isn't unreasonable to expect better from a company putting out a AAA-level MMORPG. It doesn't make you anti-ZOS or an ESO basher. It's a game that hosts a community and whose devs get paid for their work. Without the devs, the players have no ESO, yet without the players, neither do the devs. Upfront and clearly communicated give and take between the two sides shouldn't be some radical notion.

SemiD4rkness

JD2013 wrote: »

SemiD4rkness wrote: »

JD2013 wrote: »

SemiD4rkness wrote: »

JD2013 wrote: »

SemiD4rkness wrote: »

EsoRecon wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

FENG RUSH makes one fatal mistake in his assessment of ESO... not all of us are "Long Term MMO Players".. many MANY of us are "Long Term TES Players"

But overall... He's pretty spot on with his criticisms.

Then go back to skyrim.

This. As a loooong time TES franchise fan I hate this game with a passion. It's a HORRIBLE Elder Scrolls game, and even worse MMO. True TES players would agree with me, this game shouldn't even be considered part of the TES franchise.

I've been playing ES games since Arena. To me, Skyrim is by far the worst ES game, not this.

Isn't it great how people can have differing opinions?

I literally can't stand people who thinks this game is good (pve) I just don't, and if you're one of them don't talk to me because your opinion is irrelevant to me.

You seem a pleasant sort of person.

As you go through life, you will meet people who's opinions don't match your own. Deal with that little fact of life.

Nah, I ignore real life casuals too

So, would you define a casual how? How exactly is a casual measured? I for instance work a lot, have an SO to tend to, planning going back to education, and can't play for 12 hours a day every day. If having a real life makes me a casual, then I'm very proud to be a casual

I was making a joke... Ive already told you if you enjoy a single quest this game has you're a casual.

JD2013

SemiD4rkness wrote: »

JD2013 wrote: »

SemiD4rkness wrote: »

JD2013 wrote: »

SemiD4rkness wrote: »

JD2013 wrote: »

SemiD4rkness wrote: »

EsoRecon wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

FENG RUSH makes one fatal mistake in his assessment of ESO... not all of us are "Long Term MMO Players".. many MANY of us are "Long Term TES Players"

But overall... He's pretty spot on with his criticisms.

Then go back to skyrim.

This. As a loooong time TES franchise fan I hate this game with a passion. It's a HORRIBLE Elder Scrolls game, and even worse MMO. True TES players would agree with me, this game shouldn't even be considered part of the TES franchise.

I've been playing ES games since Arena. To me, Skyrim is by far the worst ES game, not this.

Isn't it great how people can have differing opinions?

I literally can't stand people who thinks this game is good (pve) I just don't, and if you're one of them don't talk to me because your opinion is irrelevant to me.

You seem a pleasant sort of person.

As you go through life, you will meet people who's opinions don't match your own. Deal with that little fact of life.

Nah, I ignore real life casuals too

So, would you define a casual how? How exactly is a casual measured? I for instance work a lot, have an SO to tend to, planning going back to education, and can't play for 12 hours a day every day. If having a real life makes me a casual, then I'm very proud to be a casual

I was making a joke... Ive already told you if you enjoy a single quest this game has you're a casual.

How about if I enjoy single quests and PVP and trials?

Turelus

It's amusing that once a streamer says something how many loyal followers come out of the woodwork to preach their gospel words.

The games been in a mess PvP wise for a while, just because a single streamer gets butt hurt about an update doesn't mean the end times are coming. He can go play another game and then get butt hurt about that at some point as well.

Meanwhile many of us will remain here and help ZOS build on the game accepting not everything can be magically fixed in a single patch.

Moglijuana

Faulgor wrote: »

ADarklore wrote: »

Hate to break it to you, but this game IS NOT dominated by PvP players- although I know most of you want to convince yourself differently. For your information, this game is dominated by PvE solo-centric players and that is basically how the game was designed. Also, if Matt Firor even comes out and states that this game is more of a RPG than traditional MMO, then that should answer your question about how PvP fits into ESO.

That's because every demographic but the solo PvE questers have left, because the game has nothing for them.
And the game was designed around the PvP in Cyrodiil. That's why we are split into 3 factions in the first place. Heck, Matt Firor only took the job on the condition that he could make this a 3-faction PvP game. And it was always advertised as having these amazing large PvP battles - at least until the performance dropped and they swept all of that under the rug to promote a dozen colors of cat mounts instead.

And I don't PvP either, just pointing some stuff out.

Right??? I mean, look at ESO's logo for crying out loud! Their main image for the entire identity of the ENTIRE FU**ING GAME revolves around 3 entities in a constant battle. But, instead of awesome DLC that emphasizes the constant war effort going on, we get DLC that makes us go and steal lint from the pockets of NPC's...like wtf lol.

I'm also not saying every DLC needs to be PvP related...but at least have SOME kind of relevance to the thousands of people being slaughtered 24/7 in Cyrodiil...

Robbmrp

He's definately right. The more that @ZOS adds new things they need to keep ALL TRIALS AT MAX LEVEL. You need to keep giving people reasons to play the game. Why would people run a Trial not at max level more than once? When you get crappy rewards from the start and the leaderboards give you items at V14 or lower.

The more and more that @ZOS adds new things and doesn't update existing things to keep people here, then for those who would have played this for years will leave after a short time.

@ZOS_MattFiror, @ZOS_RichLambert, @ZOS_GinaBruno

How long is it going to take @ZOS to realize they MUST introduce improvements to both PVE & PVP in every DLC or ESO will have no longevity.....

Tankqull

Lysette wrote: »

Mojmir wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

I think Fengrush has no idea about how casuals play and for how long they stay in a game. He said like 3 months and then they are leaving the game - why would they possibly do that?- They have seen like nothing from this game in 3 months, because they do neither rush through the content nor would they spend a lot of time playing - if they get to play 20 hours per month that is already a lot and if they get up to 40 they hit a boundary, where their spouses will start to seriously get mad at them.

For casuals the game content will not run out anytime soon - they simply are not gamers who would consume a game like it would be melting ice cream. They do not burn through the content like being on speed and they do not run around like squirrels from quest to quest - they try to enjoy their time in Tamriel, without stress or the insane idea, that endgame would be what the game would be about - it is not - that what hardcore gamers see as a necessary evil - the PvE content - that is their game. And that Pvp content is not much more than a necessary evil, because they will most likely never get to it anyway.

This game can perfectly live on for many years to come, paid solely by casual players - they might not play a lot, they will as well not be a burden on the servers, but they are willing to keep up a subscription for years to come - because that is what they want - enjoyable entertainment to get back to, whenever they have a couple of hours. They do not seek a challenge, but entertainment, something to get away from reality for a bit - so they stay subscribed, because this is the cheapest seen long term. And that is exactky what ZOS wants as well - reliable income for years to come - so it is a win-win situation - just not for hardcore players.

so basically in a nut shell: hardcore players,pvp fanatics,and streamers picked the wrong game to invest in. not arguing just interpreting.

Of course they did - like Mr. Firor said lately, this is not the typical MMO but more of an expansive expensive online Elder Scrolls RPG. And that is what it is going to be, you expect the wrong thing, if you think it will ever be something else.

just changed it sligthly for honesty...

EsoRecon

@ZOS_MattFiror @ZOS_RichLambert @ZOS_GinaBruno

I want to point out that people are negative about the game because they love it and want the best for it. So listen to what you guys think as negative comments and people will praise you. Try it.

SemiD4rkness

ADarklore wrote: »

SemiD4rkness wrote: »

This. As a loooong time TES franchise fan I hate this game with a passion. It's a HORRIBLE Elder Scrolls game, and even worse MMO. True TES players would agree with me, this game shouldn't even be considered part of the TES franchise.

Then if you hate this game, why are you spending so much time trolling the forums? Still expecting that ZOS will cater to you because of your non-stop complaining? If you haven't noticed, they tend to tune out those who are constantly full of criticism and I'm sure they feel the same way most of us do, that these type of players just need to go away already.

If you're such a 'single-player gamer' than why did you venture into MMOs? I mean, 'True TES players would agree with me' please... if you haven't noticed, this game is FULL of TES players who absolutely love the game. Oh but wait, because they don't agree with you they're not "true" TES players.

I love all types of games. ESO is just a really bad one. If you think its not then you're wrong and a casual.

JD2013

SemiD4rkness wrote: »

JD2013 wrote: »

SemiD4rkness wrote: »

JD2013 wrote: »

SemiD4rkness wrote: »

JD2013 wrote: »

SemiD4rkness wrote: »

JD2013 wrote: »

SemiD4rkness wrote: »

EsoRecon wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

FENG RUSH makes one fatal mistake in his assessment of ESO... not all of us are "Long Term MMO Players".. many MANY of us are "Long Term TES Players"

But overall... He's pretty spot on with his criticisms.

Then go back to skyrim.

This. As a loooong time TES franchise fan I hate this game with a passion. It's a HORRIBLE Elder Scrolls game, and even worse MMO. True TES players would agree with me, this game shouldn't even be considered part of the TES franchise.

I've been playing ES games since Arena. To me, Skyrim is by far the worst ES game, not this.

Isn't it great how people can have differing opinions?

I literally can't stand people who thinks this game is good (pve) I just don't, and if you're one of them don't talk to me because your opinion is irrelevant to me.

You seem a pleasant sort of person.

As you go through life, you will meet people who's opinions don't match your own. Deal with that little fact of life.

Nah, I ignore real life casuals too

So, would you define a casual how? How exactly is a casual measured? I for instance work a lot, have an SO to tend to, planning going back to education, and can't play for 12 hours a day every day. If having a real life makes me a casual, then I'm very proud to be a casual

I was making a joke... Ive already told you if you enjoy a single quest this game has you're a casual.

How about if I enjoy single quests and PVP and trials?

Still a casual.

You throw that word around like it carries any weight to an argument. It doesn't. It's just strawman, especially as the biggest portion of the player base is here for Elder Scrolls stories. I can however see when I've hit a brick wall with someone who believes throwing names around is a valid argument.

Enjoy your "hardcore" PVP experience in a game where it doesn't exist!

Although if they add arenas, I'll happily come and kick your toon to the planes of Oblivion!

Moglijuana

JD2013 wrote: »

SemiD4rkness wrote: »

JD2013 wrote: »

SemiD4rkness wrote: »

JD2013 wrote: »

SemiD4rkness wrote: »

JD2013 wrote: »

SemiD4rkness wrote: »

JD2013 wrote: »

SemiD4rkness wrote: »

EsoRecon wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

FENG RUSH makes one fatal mistake in his assessment of ESO... not all of us are "Long Term MMO Players".. many MANY of us are "Long Term TES Players"

But overall... He's pretty spot on with his criticisms.

Then go back to skyrim.

This. As a loooong time TES franchise fan I hate this game with a passion. It's a HORRIBLE Elder Scrolls game, and even worse MMO. True TES players would agree with me, this game shouldn't even be considered part of the TES franchise.

I've been playing ES games since Arena. To me, Skyrim is by far the worst ES game, not this.

Isn't it great how people can have differing opinions?

I literally can't stand people who thinks this game is good (pve) I just don't, and if you're one of them don't talk to me because your opinion is irrelevant to me.

You seem a pleasant sort of person.

As you go through life, you will meet people who's opinions don't match your own. Deal with that little fact of life.

Nah, I ignore real life casuals too

So, would you define a casual how? How exactly is a casual measured? I for instance work a lot, have an SO to tend to, planning going back to education, and can't play for 12 hours a day every day. If having a real life makes me a casual, then I'm very proud to be a casual

I was making a joke... Ive already told you if you enjoy a single quest this game has you're a casual.

How about if I enjoy single quests and PVP and trials?

Still a casual.

You throw that word around like it carries any weight to an argument. It doesn't. It's just strawman, especially as the biggest portion of the player base is here for Elder Scrolls stories. I can however see when I've hit a brick wall with someone who believes throwing names around is a valid argument.

Enjoy your "hardcore" PVP experience in a game where it doesn't exist!

I'm pretty sure these "stories" you are speaking of are more comparable to those crossword puzzles on the back of cereal boxes...bc honestly they suck and take the mental capacity of a three year old to get through.

EsoRecon

JD2013 wrote: »

SemiD4rkness wrote: »

JD2013 wrote: »

SemiD4rkness wrote: »

JD2013 wrote: »

SemiD4rkness wrote: »

JD2013 wrote: »

SemiD4rkness wrote: »

JD2013 wrote: »

SemiD4rkness wrote: »

EsoRecon wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

FENG RUSH makes one fatal mistake in his assessment of ESO... not all of us are "Long Term MMO Players".. many MANY of us are "Long Term TES Players"

But overall... He's pretty spot on with his criticisms.

Then go back to skyrim.

This. As a loooong time TES franchise fan I hate this game with a passion. It's a HORRIBLE Elder Scrolls game, and even worse MMO. True TES players would agree with me, this game shouldn't even be considered part of the TES franchise.

I've been playing ES games since Arena. To me, Skyrim is by far the worst ES game, not this.

Isn't it great how people can have differing opinions?

I literally can't stand people who thinks this game is good (pve) I just don't, and if you're one of them don't talk to me because your opinion is irrelevant to me.

You seem a pleasant sort of person.

As you go through life, you will meet people who's opinions don't match your own. Deal with that little fact of life.

Nah, I ignore real life casuals too

So, would you define a casual how? How exactly is a casual measured? I for instance work a lot, have an SO to tend to, planning going back to education, and can't play for 12 hours a day every day. If having a real life makes me a casual, then I'm very proud to be a casual

I was making a joke... Ive already told you if you enjoy a single quest this game has you're a casual.

How about if I enjoy single quests and PVP and trials?

Still a casual.

You throw that word around like it carries any weight to an argument. It doesn't. It's just strawman, especially as the biggest portion of the player base is here for Elder Scrolls stories. I can however see when I've hit a brick wall with someone who believes throwing names around is a valid argument.

Enjoy your "hardcore" PVP experience in a game where it doesn't exist!

Although if they add arenas, I'll happily come and kick your toon to the planes of Oblivion!

Yo what are you guys even arguing about anymore?

Mady

Turelus wrote: »

It's amusing that once a streamer says something how many loyal followers come out of the woodwork to preach their gospel words.

The games been in a mess PvP wise for a while, just because a single streamer gets butt hurt about an update doesn't mean the end times are coming. He can go play another game and then get butt hurt about that at some point as well.

Meanwhile many of us will remain here and help ZOS build on the game accepting not everything can be magically fixed in a single patch.

Actually this is happening every DLC/update. Nothing really changed that much to say 'Yes, they really try as hard as possible'. I play since beta and tired to see how this game is getting worse with every update. And I don't only look at the content. It's everything around, too.

F*** the next DLC. Make a HUGE bug fix update and everyone is happy. I can wait for new content until the end of the year, if at least the game would run fine.

JD2013

Moglijuana wrote: »

Actually, a lot of these side stories are far better written than most MMO's and indeed Skyrim. I prefer this to "go and get me 20 wolves tails because reasons!!"

[edited to remove quote]

SemiD4rkness

JD2013 wrote: »

SemiD4rkness wrote: »

JD2013 wrote: »

SemiD4rkness wrote: »

JD2013 wrote: »

SemiD4rkness wrote: »

JD2013 wrote: »

SemiD4rkness wrote: »

JD2013 wrote: »

SemiD4rkness wrote: »

EsoRecon wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

FENG RUSH makes one fatal mistake in his assessment of ESO... not all of us are "Long Term MMO Players".. many MANY of us are "Long Term TES Players"

But overall... He's pretty spot on with his criticisms.

Then go back to skyrim.

This. As a loooong time TES franchise fan I hate this game with a passion. It's a HORRIBLE Elder Scrolls game, and even worse MMO. True TES players would agree with me, this game shouldn't even be considered part of the TES franchise.

I've been playing ES games since Arena. To me, Skyrim is by far the worst ES game, not this.

Isn't it great how people can have differing opinions?

I literally can't stand people who thinks this game is good (pve) I just don't, and if you're one of them don't talk to me because your opinion is irrelevant to me.

You seem a pleasant sort of person.

As you go through life, you will meet people who's opinions don't match your own. Deal with that little fact of life.

Nah, I ignore real life casuals too

So, would you define a casual how? How exactly is a casual measured? I for instance work a lot, have an SO to tend to, planning going back to education, and can't play for 12 hours a day every day. If having a real life makes me a casual, then I'm very proud to be a casual

I was making a joke... Ive already told you if you enjoy a single quest this game has you're a casual.

How about if I enjoy single quests and PVP and trials?

Still a casual.

You throw that word around like it carries any weight to an argument. It doesn't. It's just strawman, especially as the biggest portion of the player base is here for Elder Scrolls stories. I can however see when I've hit a brick wall with someone who believes throwing names around is a valid argument.

Enjoy your "hardcore" PVP experience in a game where it doesn't exist!

Although if they add arenas, I'll happily come and kick your toon to the planes of Oblivion!

1v1 I would destroy you with my stamina templar that's for sure. While you've been ''saving the world'' in unchallenging quests i've been practicing, so no a fight is not an option. Also I do know there's not real pvp in this game that's the reason I left it.

SemiD4rkness

Moglijuana wrote: »

JD2013 wrote: »

SemiD4rkness wrote: »

JD2013 wrote: »

SemiD4rkness wrote: »

JD2013 wrote: »

SemiD4rkness wrote: »

JD2013 wrote: »

SemiD4rkness wrote: »

JD2013 wrote: »

SemiD4rkness wrote: »

EsoRecon wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

FENG RUSH makes one fatal mistake in his assessment of ESO... not all of us are "Long Term MMO Players".. many MANY of us are "Long Term TES Players"

But overall... He's pretty spot on with his criticisms.

Then go back to skyrim.

This. As a loooong time TES franchise fan I hate this game with a passion. It's a HORRIBLE Elder Scrolls game, and even worse MMO. True TES players would agree with me, this game shouldn't even be considered part of the TES franchise.

I've been playing ES games since Arena. To me, Skyrim is by far the worst ES game, not this.

Isn't it great how people can have differing opinions?

I literally can't stand people who thinks this game is good (pve) I just don't, and if you're one of them don't talk to me because your opinion is irrelevant to me.

You seem a pleasant sort of person.

As you go through life, you will meet people who's opinions don't match your own. Deal with that little fact of life.

Nah, I ignore real life casuals too

So, would you define a casual how? How exactly is a casual measured? I for instance work a lot, have an SO to tend to, planning going back to education, and can't play for 12 hours a day every day. If having a real life makes me a casual, then I'm very proud to be a casual

I was making a joke... Ive already told you if you enjoy a single quest this game has you're a casual.

How about if I enjoy single quests and PVP and trials?

Still a casual.

You throw that word around like it carries any weight to an argument. It doesn't. It's just strawman, especially as the biggest portion of the player base is here for Elder Scrolls stories. I can however see when I've hit a brick wall with someone who believes throwing names around is a valid argument.

Enjoy your "hardcore" PVP experience in a game where it doesn't exist!

I'm pretty sure these "stories" you are speaking of are more comparable to those crossword puzzles on the back of cereal boxes...bc honestly they suck and take the mental capacity of a three year old to get through.

Oh man so much THIS +1000000

JD2013

SemiD4rkness wrote: »

JD2013 wrote: »

SemiD4rkness wrote: »

JD2013 wrote: »

SemiD4rkness wrote: »

JD2013 wrote: »

SemiD4rkness wrote: »

JD2013 wrote: »

SemiD4rkness wrote: »

JD2013 wrote: »

SemiD4rkness wrote: »

EsoRecon wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

FENG RUSH makes one fatal mistake in his assessment of ESO... not all of us are "Long Term MMO Players".. many MANY of us are "Long Term TES Players"

But overall... He's pretty spot on with his criticisms.

Then go back to skyrim.

This. As a loooong time TES franchise fan I hate this game with a passion. It's a HORRIBLE Elder Scrolls game, and even worse MMO. True TES players would agree with me, this game shouldn't even be considered part of the TES franchise.

I've been playing ES games since Arena. To me, Skyrim is by far the worst ES game, not this.

Isn't it great how people can have differing opinions?

I literally can't stand people who thinks this game is good (pve) I just don't, and if you're one of them don't talk to me because your opinion is irrelevant to me.

You seem a pleasant sort of person.

As you go through life, you will meet people who's opinions don't match your own. Deal with that little fact of life.

Nah, I ignore real life casuals too

So, would you define a casual how? How exactly is a casual measured? I for instance work a lot, have an SO to tend to, planning going back to education, and can't play for 12 hours a day every day. If having a real life makes me a casual, then I'm very proud to be a casual

I was making a joke... Ive already told you if you enjoy a single quest this game has you're a casual.

How about if I enjoy single quests and PVP and trials?

Still a casual.

You throw that word around like it carries any weight to an argument. It doesn't. It's just strawman, especially as the biggest portion of the player base is here for Elder Scrolls stories. I can however see when I've hit a brick wall with someone who believes throwing names around is a valid argument.

Enjoy your "hardcore" PVP experience in a game where it doesn't exist!

Although if they add arenas, I'll happily come and kick your toon to the planes of Oblivion!

1v1 I would destroy you with my stamina templar that's for sure. While you've been ''saving the world'' in unchallenging quests i've been practicing, so no a fight is not an option. Also I do know there's not real pvp in this game that's the reason I left it.

Well if you've left then that's neither here nor there then is it?

Phinix1

starkerealm wrote: »

...

I enjoyed reading your post. It was refreshingly objective and I respect you for it, so thanks for taking the time.

starkerealm wrote: »

Nothing cowardly about it. There's no point to engaging with a chorus of people who have nothing more constructive to say than, "you suck!"

So what happens when one of them has a valid point? They get ignored. Because they're standing next to twenty other people who don't, and are busy chanting, "you suck," over, and over, and over again, and have nothing of value to contribute.

I can understand where you are coming from here, and while that may hold true for the average forum-goer and casual commentator, I don't think leaders and developers really have the luxury of playing "boy-who-cried-wolf" on certain issues. A better response would probably be to just give certain people a "time out" when they are posting non-constructive fodder, temporarily putting them on ignore. Or, better yet, flag certain people as "said something worth listening to in the past" so that they show up with a little star on your ignore filter.

starkerealm wrote: »

Case in point.

I mean, here you've made a legitimate point: There are balance issues between the classes. And, you've wrapped it in a cynical and abusive tone. Which, I mean, as a content creator, I'd look at that and say, "nope, not even going to bother," and move on.

You had a legitimate point, but now it's lost, because you set it up as an insult.

Again you make an important point. If you want attention paid to your ideas, it is best to phrase them in an approachable tone. Believe me, I encounter this frequently from certain rude and entitled people that post demands on my addon pages. Demands! For something I do for free! And they can't even be bothered to not be a &^%! about it. Yeah. No.

HOWEVER, there are important limits to that formula. A certain level of frustration has to be understandable when dealing with a customer-vendor relationship. If this were a perfect vacuum that would be one thing (and of course we are all people first and should be respectful to one another), but when there is a product being sold and money on the line, the rules change a little.

That doesn't mean it is appropriate to be abusive, but then I would hardly call that statement abusive. Cynical, maybe. But as a business, you have to be prepared to understand that if a customer has purchased something and it is not meeting their expectations, then so long as those expectations are reasonable, that feedback must be considered as worth listening to, even simply from a business standpoint.

Yes, if ALL the guy had done for 30 minutes was yell "you suck" it might be hard to see the point. And watching it again, he does yell "you suck" a lot. He does make some legitimate points, and I think the reason it appeals is because there is a lot of resonant frustration that gets amplified by affirmation.

I have never seen a gaming community that goes so out of their way to theory-craft and write up spreadsheets and databases of information for the devs to pour over than this one. Maybe the perceived lack of resolution to core issues is the reason a rant that otherwise would pass as inconsequential catches like wildfire?

I think the most important solution ZOS should take away from things like this is that people simply want a timetable, setting reasonable expectations for progress on top priority issues. With proper communication these things would be far less relevant.

Not to legitimize the tact or encourage abusive "us vs. them" pitchforking...

I guess someone just has to look past the hurt feelings and angry frustration by either side and identify those points that are core issues, then bring them to light in a new, separate thread not paying lip service to the previous players at all. Maybe having a proxy spokesperson would help get the important points addressed.

But then, I have seen so many threads with literally DAYS worth of carefully compiled constructive data get basically ignored here by all parties involved. Literally, 1 or 2 people making the obligatory "GG" or "first" posts then nothing. Crickets. Go figure.

starkerealm wrote: »

...the AOE cap that Feng throws a borderline tantrum over is actually something that was implemented because ZOS did listen to people telling them how to fix things.

Who here remembers the unkillable vampire emperors from launch?

Yeah, that AoE cap was put in the game at player demand. Because they did listen to people telling them how to fix things. And now someone else has come along and said, "no, no, no, you listened to the wrong guys, by the way this is your fault!" Yeah... I can't imagine why ZOS might not want to listen to him.

Well, to be fair there was quite a lot of feedback on this issue. Straight caps seemed sort of like a stop-gap that never quite got fleshed out. A better solution would probably have been capping the positive aspects while scaling the damage based on the number hit, allowing people to break up zergs causing extreme server lag without becoming un-killable from the heal-per-target component.

Part of the confusion is understanding what exactly is it that causes the servers to break down and cry like they do in large blob vs. blob scenarios.

starkerealm wrote: »

That's all anyone can do really. I mean, with an MMO? It's not like a single player release. It's never going to be a static game. It may not even exist in the same form a month or two months from now. You can take what's there, you can offer your suggestions. But, when it devolves into shouting, "no, you're wrong!" it becomes non-constructive. It's not cowardice, it's just how dialog works. You said your bit. Someone else decided if you were worth listening to or not. And here we are.

I certainly didn't mean to suggest that anyone not paying attention to rants were cowards.

It was just a (perhaps poorly worded) tangent about a trend I see in society where frustration about immigration for example, or healthcare for profit, or extortionist student loans, or whatever else is perpetuated in large part by a mindset that is so burnt out and overwhelmed with all the problems we face that even a little negativity becomes too much to bear, and so refuse to engage anymore in public discussion if there is even the slightest hint of negativity.

It is particularly dangerous when one super-conglomerate owns the media in question, as seeing this effect it becomes obvious that all they have to do to control a population is to inundate them with enough emotionally overwhelming adversity (ala Facebook viral negativity experiment) that they become desensitized, and so just give up confronting the important issues that DO need rising above.

I understand, times are tough, there is a lot of fear and doubt, and I don't mean to muddy the waters here and now by bringing up that larger social phenomenon in the context of an entertainment venue.

Perhaps it is best to leave political science to politics and focus on what needs fixing.

Maybe then we can get more serious attention paid to HOW.

Nolphi

I have been following Fengrush and some of the other hardcore streamers for a while and in his defense the frustration has simply been building up for too long. ZOS needs to understand that a simple PVP arena will solve so much of the longevity issues this game will have especially with players that have been here for so long... its such an easy thing to add and such an elementary need you will be fulfilling for so many players...

Moglijuana

JD2013 wrote: »

Moglijuana wrote: »

JD2013 wrote: »

SemiD4rkness wrote: »

JD2013 wrote: »

SemiD4rkness wrote: »

JD2013 wrote: »

SemiD4rkness wrote: »

JD2013 wrote: »

SemiD4rkness wrote: »

JD2013 wrote: »

SemiD4rkness wrote: »

EsoRecon wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

FENG RUSH makes one fatal mistake in his assessment of ESO... not all of us are "Long Term MMO Players".. many MANY of us are "Long Term TES Players"

But overall... He's pretty spot on with his criticisms.

Then go back to skyrim.

This. As a loooong time TES franchise fan I hate this game with a passion. It's a HORRIBLE Elder Scrolls game, and even worse MMO. True TES players would agree with me, this game shouldn't even be considered part of the TES franchise.

I've been playing ES games since Arena. To me, Skyrim is by far the worst ES game, not this.

Isn't it great how people can have differing opinions?

I literally can't stand people who thinks this game is good (pve) I just don't, and if you're one of them don't talk to me because your opinion is irrelevant to me.

You seem a pleasant sort of person.

As you go through life, you will meet people who's opinions don't match your own. Deal with that little fact of life.

Nah, I ignore real life casuals too

So, would you define a casual how? How exactly is a casual measured? I for instance work a lot, have an SO to tend to, planning going back to education, and can't play for 12 hours a day every day. If having a real life makes me a casual, then I'm very proud to be a casual

I was making a joke... Ive already told you if you enjoy a single quest this game has you're a casual.

How about if I enjoy single quests and PVP and trials?

Still a casual.

You throw that word around like it carries any weight to an argument. It doesn't. It's just strawman, especially as the biggest portion of the player base is here for Elder Scrolls stories. I can however see when I've hit a brick wall with someone who believes throwing names around is a valid argument.

Enjoy your "hardcore" PVP experience in a game where it doesn't exist!

I'm pretty sure these "stories" you are speaking of are more comparable to those crossword puzzles on the back of cereal boxes...bc honestly they suck and take the mental capacity of a three year old to get through.

Actually, a lot of these side stories are far better written than most MMO's and indeed Skyrim. I prefer this to "go and get me 20 wolves tails because reasons!!"

The only quests that stood out to me were the guild quests and the main story. Everything else just seemed like a chore. Orsinium was a bit better as the new scenery helped. But how long will the population be satisfied with "better than most" quests...If you want to quest play something like the Witcher, or Dragon Age.

ZOS_CoriJ

We are leaving this thread open to continue this topic as the video and discussion itself have valid points. Criticism is welcome. However we would appreciate a single running discussion on this issue. Multiple threads are considered spamming and will take attention away from the point trying to me made of the discussion.

We also ask that you continue to keep this discussion in the realm of debate and away from insulting other players/groups. (We had to remove a few statements.) There are plenty of good examples of players making their statements on this thread without bashing one another. This is in the interest of keeping this thread open as we will close this thread like any other that violates our general forum rules.

RobboEU

ZOS_CoriJ wrote: »

We are leaving this thread open to continue this topic as the video and discussion itself have valid points. Criticism is welcome. However we would appreciate a single running discussion on this issue. Multiple threads are considered spamming and will take attention away from the point trying to me made of the discussion.

We also ask that you continue to keep this discussion in the realm of debate and away from insulting other players/groups. (We had to remove a few statements.) There are plenty of good examples of players making their statements on this thread without bashing one another. This is in the interest of keeping this thread open as we will close this thread like any other that violates our general forum rules.

we as a community politely ask if you take action on the issues raised

Also if removing the other threads make it clear within the topics title what this thread is regarding.

DaveMoeDee

Nolphi wrote: »

I have been following Fengrush and some of the other hardcore streamers for a while and in his defense the frustration has simply been building up for too long. ZOS needs to understand that a simple PVP arena will solve so much of the longevity issues this game will have especially with players that have been here for so long... its such an easy thing to add and such an elementary need you will be fulfilling for so many players...

I think they understand that some people really want arenas and now they seem to be working on it.

But my prediction is different than yours. Arenas will not solve complaints. When arenas launch, we will see countless posts here complaining about class balance in arenas (no matter how the game is designed).

The important contribution of arenas will be to provide small scale PvP without lag. It will be a positive in that respect. It will be a major step backwards for balance since it is just an additional game mode to have to balance.

Randactyl

magnusthorek wrote: »

I'm so glad that I'm not the only player who is not "afraid" of speak my mind and point ruthlessly what the hell is going on.

And then, something obscure and not publicly mentioned is changed requiring us to re-accept the TOS (otherwise we can't even login anymore) like if we could even compare to the older text (who is paranoid enough to keep "version control" of TOSs) and we read it carefully just to see that basically the whole Section 6 is a general f*ck off saying exactly what Feng said but with legal speech.

...

Or, you know, you could search to see if someone did run a diff on it.

From dominoid on reddit (https://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/4admyq/news_new_terms_of_service_today_heres_whats/)

Apparently all of Zenimax Media uses the same Terms of Service so there are a lot of changes with regards to Fallout4, Mods and the new Bethesda.net site. I didn't fully go through the changes, but I'm sure if someone finds something interesting it will be pointed out in the comments.

diff: https://www.diffchecker.com/6ct2yiae

Valn

ZOS_CoriJ wrote: »

We are leaving this thread open to continue this topic as the video and discussion itself have valid points. Criticism is welcome. However we would appreciate a single running discussion on this issue. Multiple threads are considered spamming and will take attention away from the point trying to me made of the discussion.

We also ask that you continue to keep this discussion in the realm of debate and away from insulting other players/groups. (We had to remove a few statements.) There are plenty of good examples of players making their statements on this thread without bashing one another. This is in the interest of keeping this thread open as we will close this thread like any other that violates our general forum rules.

Gonna quote this directly from the video

"Go look at the forums, go look at any flipping sub forum on your forums and you have a bunch of people going in there saying "Hey guys, please be respectful in your posts"."

DaveMoeDee

moesmaker wrote: »

Don't embarrass him more, he is making a complete fool of himself. Stop spreading this vid

Mady wrote: »

There will never be enough threads for this video. Just because it's so damn right and ZOS don't care.

Feels like a political discussion.

We are all someone's idiot.

Moglijuana

Woo! I'm glad this thread is open again. I don't really care for the arguing, I'd rather see discussions to help make this game WE ALL WANT IT TO BE. The best MMO out there!

What would help the community the most to appeal to their desires? I feel like an actual community ambassador would help ZOS tremendously. Atm they seem way too transparent for an MMO developer.

Valn

moesmaker wrote: »

Don't embarrass him more, he is making a complete fool of himself. Stop spreading this vid

The truth deserves to be spread.

ZOS_CoriJ

Eldruf wrote: »

we as a community politely if you take action on the issues raised

Also if removing the other threads make it clear within the topics title what this thread is regarding.

This is an excellent suggestion. Thank you for your feedback.
We had hoped that posting that the thread was temporarily locked was enough clarity, however if the lock itself alarms people we will consider editing titles as well if this is more informative.

[edited for Eldruf]
Both suggestions were of course good ones.