Cloak Needs A Nerf

OurOwn · September 2015

Maybe a debuff to stop or prolong exiting combat after cloak use? I think it's just crazy how they can cloak 1-4 times and instantly sneak afterwards.

tennotsukai87 · September 2015

People keep saying use AoEs and stealth detect potions. I use these options, but with AoEs I can never guess where the NB has fled off to. Once I use that one AoE and miss, he or she is long gone. Just fyi, I'm using lightning flood. Stealth detect is an option that I've used a few times; though, when I do have a potion to use and utilize the detect potion that NB can run so fast in SC that I may or may not catch him in time.

As an aside, I do think NBs lack survivability in terms of class abilities, but I don't feel like SC should be spammable. Infinite Focused Aim -> SC can really bug a person without ever the chance to find them. Perhaps, ZOS can do a little nerf while giving a slight buff to another skill to help with survivability. I will agree that NB is pretty damn squishy.

PainfulFAFA · September 2015

tennotsukai87 wrote: »

People keep saying use AoEs and stealth detect potions. I use these options, but with AoEs I can never guess where the NB has fled off to. Once I use that one AoE and miss, he or she is long gone. Just fyi, I'm using lightning flood. Stealth detect is an option that I've used a few times; though, when I do have a potion to use and utilize the detect potion that NB can run so fast in SC that I may or may not catch him in time.

As an aside, I do think NBs lack survivability in terms of class abilities, but I don't feel like SC should be spammable. Infinite Focused Aim -> SC can really bug a person without ever the chance to find them. Perhaps, ZOS can do a little nerf while giving a slight buff to another skill to help with survivability. I will agree that NB is pretty damn squishy.

thats your problem.

Lightning flood is imo a small range aoe.
Try using caltrops, steel tornado, bombard, lightning form, encase -_-, runes -_-, mines -__-,
impulse, mage light u.u

Seriously cloak doesnt need a nerf (i play a stam sorc).
Aspect of terror (fear) is what needs the nerfing!!!

CP5 · September 2015

PainfulFAFA wrote: »

show previous quotes

tennotsukai87 wrote: »

People keep saying use AoEs and stealth detect potions. I use these options, but with AoEs I can never guess where the NB has fled off to. Once I use that one AoE and miss, he or she is long gone. Just fyi, I'm using lightning flood. Stealth detect is an option that I've used a few times; though, when I do have a potion to use and utilize the detect potion that NB can run so fast in SC that I may or may not catch him in time.

As an aside, I do think NBs lack survivability in terms of class abilities, but I don't feel like SC should be spammable. Infinite Focused Aim -> SC can really bug a person without ever the chance to find them. Perhaps, ZOS can do a little nerf while giving a slight buff to another skill to help with survivability. I will agree that NB is pretty damn squishy.

thats your problem.

Lightning flood is imo a small range aoe.
Try using caltrops, steel tornado, bombard, lightning form, encase -_-, runes -_-, mines -__-,
impulse, mage light u.u

Seriously cloak doesnt need a nerf (i play a stam sorc).
Aspect of terror (fear) is what needs the nerfing!!!

caltrops - very expensive stamina cost, perfect way to line yourself up for being feared, again
steel tornado - pbaoe that does have a decent range, but if the nb is smart they'll cloak between your attacks and run a direction so that your next attack will miss
bombard - decent range and nice rood/snare, only real weakness is its a cone, so the closer you are to the nb the less they have to move to escape
lightning form - like steel tornado, but without having to spam it, nb's can do exactly the same thing to avoid you
encase like bombard, but doesn't damage and in my own experience is hit or miss in keeping them pinned
runes - requires you to either see the target or be attacked, decent if the nb hits you with a dot, but otherwise kinda meh at that
mines - really?
impulse - same as steel tornado, but less aoe, the dot can help but most nb's don't worry about dots
mage light - have you seen its effective aoe? Seems like it begins and ends on your own characters feet for how much range it has

blur · September 2015

CP5 wrote: »

show previous quotes

PainfulFAFA wrote: »

tennotsukai87 wrote: »

People keep saying use AoEs and stealth detect potions. I use these options, but with AoEs I can never guess where the NB has fled off to. Once I use that one AoE and miss, he or she is long gone. Just fyi, I'm using lightning flood. Stealth detect is an option that I've used a few times; though, when I do have a potion to use and utilize the detect potion that NB can run so fast in SC that I may or may not catch him in time.

As an aside, I do think NBs lack survivability in terms of class abilities, but I don't feel like SC should be spammable. Infinite Focused Aim -> SC can really bug a person without ever the chance to find them. Perhaps, ZOS can do a little nerf while giving a slight buff to another skill to help with survivability. I will agree that NB is pretty damn squishy.

thats your problem.

Lightning flood is imo a small range aoe.
Try using caltrops, steel tornado, bombard, lightning form, encase -_-, runes -_-, mines -__-,
impulse, mage light u.u

Seriously cloak doesnt need a nerf (i play a stam sorc).
Aspect of terror (fear) is what needs the nerfing!!!

caltrops - very expensive stamina cost, perfect way to line yourself up for being feared, again
steel tornado - pbaoe that does have a decent range, but if the nb is smart they'll cloak between your attacks and run a direction so that your next attack will miss
bombard - decent range and nice rood/snare, only real weakness is its a cone, so the closer you are to the nb the less they have to move to escape
lightning form - like steel tornado, but without having to spam it, nb's can do exactly the same thing to avoid you
encase like bombard, but doesn't damage and in my own experience is hit or miss in keeping them pinned
runes - requires you to either see the target or be attacked, decent if the nb hits you with a dot, but otherwise kinda meh at that
mines - really?
impulse - same as steel tornado, but less aoe, the dot can help but most nb's don't worry about dots
mage light - have you seen its effective aoe? Seems like it begins and ends on your own characters feet for how much range it has

Caltrops is really good for this. I use it constantly as do most stam sorcs (and other classes) to stop NBs.
Steel Tornado has a 12.5m range
Lightning Form works all the time for me and other popular Stam Sorcs like Xael and Fengrush.

Radiant Magelight is a 12m radius against players in Light Armor. You need to factor in Medium Armor bonus and Stealthty (Bosmer / Khajit) bonus. then again, this is a nerf cloak thread so that doesn't matter. 12m for RML, thats huge. At my feet my ass.

These type of threads are really bad and most of you should feel ashamed of yourselves. You don't seem to realize how cringeworthy and embarassing this thread is.

The small group of you looking for a scapegoat (cloak) are absolutely ridiculous. Your argument is that a NB gets away... newsflash, that's the point of the ability. Are you going to cry and whine about heals being able heal after you get cloaked nerfed? Stupid people everywhere...

Derra · September 2015

blur wrote: »

show previous quotes

CP5 wrote: »

PainfulFAFA wrote: »

tennotsukai87 wrote: »

People keep saying use AoEs and stealth detect potions. I use these options, but with AoEs I can never guess where the NB has fled off to. Once I use that one AoE and miss, he or she is long gone. Just fyi, I'm using lightning flood. Stealth detect is an option that I've used a few times; though, when I do have a potion to use and utilize the detect potion that NB can run so fast in SC that I may or may not catch him in time.

As an aside, I do think NBs lack survivability in terms of class abilities, but I don't feel like SC should be spammable. Infinite Focused Aim -> SC can really bug a person without ever the chance to find them. Perhaps, ZOS can do a little nerf while giving a slight buff to another skill to help with survivability. I will agree that NB is pretty damn squishy.

thats your problem.

Lightning flood is imo a small range aoe.
Try using caltrops, steel tornado, bombard, lightning form, encase -_-, runes -_-, mines -__-,
impulse, mage light u.u

Seriously cloak doesnt need a nerf (i play a stam sorc).
Aspect of terror (fear) is what needs the nerfing!!!

caltrops - very expensive stamina cost, perfect way to line yourself up for being feared, again
steel tornado - pbaoe that does have a decent range, but if the nb is smart they'll cloak between your attacks and run a direction so that your next attack will miss
bombard - decent range and nice rood/snare, only real weakness is its a cone, so the closer you are to the nb the less they have to move to escape
lightning form - like steel tornado, but without having to spam it, nb's can do exactly the same thing to avoid you
encase like bombard, but doesn't damage and in my own experience is hit or miss in keeping them pinned
runes - requires you to either see the target or be attacked, decent if the nb hits you with a dot, but otherwise kinda meh at that
mines - really?
impulse - same as steel tornado, but less aoe, the dot can help but most nb's don't worry about dots
mage light - have you seen its effective aoe? Seems like it begins and ends on your own characters feet for how much range it has

Caltrops is really good for this. I use it constantly as do most stam sorcs (and other classes) to stop NBs.
Steel Tornado has a 12.5m range
Lightning Form works all the time for me and other popular Stam Sorcs like Xael and Fengrush.

Radiant Magelight is a 12m radius against players in Light Armor. You need to factor in Medium Armor bonus and Stealthty (Bosmer / Khajit) bonus. then again, this is a nerf cloak thread so that doesn't matter. 12m for RML, thats huge. At my feet my ass.

These type of threads are really bad and most of you should feel ashamed of yourselves. You don't seem to realize how cringeworthy and embarassing this thread is.

The small group of you looking for a scapegoat (cloak) are absolutely ridiculous. Your argument is that a NB gets away... newsflash, that's the point of the ability. Are you going to cry and whine about heals being able heal after you get cloaked nerfed? Stupid people everywhere...

I would express my condolences but since half of the people in this topic now defending nightblades have been arguing against sorcerers who made the same arguments with respect to bolt escape all i can do is laugh at this topic.
You had it coming.
Now the impending nerf gives me a warm feeling and makes me sleep well at night. Just try to view it as karma (because that´s essentially what it is - when they gutted sorcs abilities to get away it was clear that they would do so for every ability enabling someone to get away sooner or later. In the end the forumcryblades are responsible themselves).

lifefrombelowb14_ESO · September 2015

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

show previous quotes

RunAway wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

RunAway wrote: »

There are detect pots, binds and DoT's that all solve the problem. The actual problem is the people, like the OP, who want 1 build that counters everything in the game.

RunAway wrote: »

If you think DoT's solve the problem of Cloak perhaps you should read the tooltip for cloak.

1) The OP is a NB
2) DoT's don't pop you out of cloak
3) Curse has been changed and it doesn't pop you out of cloak any more

No offence meant, but form 2 posts within 5 mins, it's obvious to me that you don't seem to know the game well enough to offer an opinion on Cloak atm.

Curse does actually break cloak...Isn't that ironic?

No, not at all. Since 2.1 hit, any damaging effect applied on the NB before he cloaked will no longer pop him out of cloak afterwards.

The NB gets hit by the Curse and takes the damage, but he does not become visible.

Um its sure as hell popping me out of stealth when it pops forcing me to re-apply stealth.

Domander · September 2015

Derra wrote: »

show previous quotes

blur wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

PainfulFAFA wrote: »

tennotsukai87 wrote: »

People keep saying use AoEs and stealth detect potions. I use these options, but with AoEs I can never guess where the NB has fled off to. Once I use that one AoE and miss, he or she is long gone. Just fyi, I'm using lightning flood. Stealth detect is an option that I've used a few times; though, when I do have a potion to use and utilize the detect potion that NB can run so fast in SC that I may or may not catch him in time.

As an aside, I do think NBs lack survivability in terms of class abilities, but I don't feel like SC should be spammable. Infinite Focused Aim -> SC can really bug a person without ever the chance to find them. Perhaps, ZOS can do a little nerf while giving a slight buff to another skill to help with survivability. I will agree that NB is pretty damn squishy.

thats your problem.

Lightning flood is imo a small range aoe.
Try using caltrops, steel tornado, bombard, lightning form, encase -_-, runes -_-, mines -__-,
impulse, mage light u.u

Seriously cloak doesnt need a nerf (i play a stam sorc).
Aspect of terror (fear) is what needs the nerfing!!!

caltrops - very expensive stamina cost, perfect way to line yourself up for being feared, again
steel tornado - pbaoe that does have a decent range, but if the nb is smart they'll cloak between your attacks and run a direction so that your next attack will miss
bombard - decent range and nice rood/snare, only real weakness is its a cone, so the closer you are to the nb the less they have to move to escape
lightning form - like steel tornado, but without having to spam it, nb's can do exactly the same thing to avoid you
encase like bombard, but doesn't damage and in my own experience is hit or miss in keeping them pinned
runes - requires you to either see the target or be attacked, decent if the nb hits you with a dot, but otherwise kinda meh at that
mines - really?
impulse - same as steel tornado, but less aoe, the dot can help but most nb's don't worry about dots
mage light - have you seen its effective aoe? Seems like it begins and ends on your own characters feet for how much range it has

Caltrops is really good for this. I use it constantly as do most stam sorcs (and other classes) to stop NBs.
Steel Tornado has a 12.5m range
Lightning Form works all the time for me and other popular Stam Sorcs like Xael and Fengrush.

Radiant Magelight is a 12m radius against players in Light Armor. You need to factor in Medium Armor bonus and Stealthty (Bosmer / Khajit) bonus. then again, this is a nerf cloak thread so that doesn't matter. 12m for RML, thats huge. At my feet my ass.

These type of threads are really bad and most of you should feel ashamed of yourselves. You don't seem to realize how cringeworthy and embarassing this thread is.

The small group of you looking for a scapegoat (cloak) are absolutely ridiculous. Your argument is that a NB gets away... newsflash, that's the point of the ability. Are you going to cry and whine about heals being able heal after you get cloaked nerfed? Stupid people everywhere...

I would express my condolences but since half of the people in this topic now defending nightblades have been arguing against sorcerers who made the same arguments with respect to bolt escape all i can do is laugh at this topic.
You had it coming.
Now the impending nerf gives me a warm feeling and makes me sleep well at night. Just try to view it as karma (because that´s essentially what it is - when they gutted sorcs abilities to get away it was clear that they would do so for every ability enabling someone to get away sooner or later. In the end the forumcryblades are responsible themselves).

Listen to this ZOS, attitudes like this are the real problem.

Ashamray · September 2015

I'm a templar and I don't want cloak nerf. It's not OP and it's funny to play against cloaking nightblade trying to predict his appearance.

Derra · September 2015

Domander wrote: »

show previous quotes

Derra wrote: »

blur wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

PainfulFAFA wrote: »

tennotsukai87 wrote: »

People keep saying use AoEs and stealth detect potions. I use these options, but with AoEs I can never guess where the NB has fled off to. Once I use that one AoE and miss, he or she is long gone. Just fyi, I'm using lightning flood. Stealth detect is an option that I've used a few times; though, when I do have a potion to use and utilize the detect potion that NB can run so fast in SC that I may or may not catch him in time.

As an aside, I do think NBs lack survivability in terms of class abilities, but I don't feel like SC should be spammable. Infinite Focused Aim -> SC can really bug a person without ever the chance to find them. Perhaps, ZOS can do a little nerf while giving a slight buff to another skill to help with survivability. I will agree that NB is pretty damn squishy.

thats your problem.

Lightning flood is imo a small range aoe.
Try using caltrops, steel tornado, bombard, lightning form, encase -_-, runes -_-, mines -__-,
impulse, mage light u.u

Seriously cloak doesnt need a nerf (i play a stam sorc).
Aspect of terror (fear) is what needs the nerfing!!!

caltrops - very expensive stamina cost, perfect way to line yourself up for being feared, again
steel tornado - pbaoe that does have a decent range, but if the nb is smart they'll cloak between your attacks and run a direction so that your next attack will miss
bombard - decent range and nice rood/snare, only real weakness is its a cone, so the closer you are to the nb the less they have to move to escape
lightning form - like steel tornado, but without having to spam it, nb's can do exactly the same thing to avoid you
encase like bombard, but doesn't damage and in my own experience is hit or miss in keeping them pinned
runes - requires you to either see the target or be attacked, decent if the nb hits you with a dot, but otherwise kinda meh at that
mines - really?
impulse - same as steel tornado, but less aoe, the dot can help but most nb's don't worry about dots
mage light - have you seen its effective aoe? Seems like it begins and ends on your own characters feet for how much range it has

Caltrops is really good for this. I use it constantly as do most stam sorcs (and other classes) to stop NBs.
Steel Tornado has a 12.5m range
Lightning Form works all the time for me and other popular Stam Sorcs like Xael and Fengrush.

Radiant Magelight is a 12m radius against players in Light Armor. You need to factor in Medium Armor bonus and Stealthty (Bosmer / Khajit) bonus. then again, this is a nerf cloak thread so that doesn't matter. 12m for RML, thats huge. At my feet my ass.

These type of threads are really bad and most of you should feel ashamed of yourselves. You don't seem to realize how cringeworthy and embarassing this thread is.

The small group of you looking for a scapegoat (cloak) are absolutely ridiculous. Your argument is that a NB gets away... newsflash, that's the point of the ability. Are you going to cry and whine about heals being able heal after you get cloaked nerfed? Stupid people everywhere...

I would express my condolences but since half of the people in this topic now defending nightblades have been arguing against sorcerers who made the same arguments with respect to bolt escape all i can do is laugh at this topic.
You had it coming.
Now the impending nerf gives me a warm feeling and makes me sleep well at night. Just try to view it as karma (because that´s essentially what it is - when they gutted sorcs abilities to get away it was clear that they would do so for every ability enabling someone to get away sooner or later. In the end the forumcryblades are responsible themselves).

Listen to this ZOS, attitudes like this are the real problem.

Nope not at all. It started with nerfs to bolt escape. Now cloak has to follow for the sake of Balance. You can´t nerf one ability without touching the other. Essentially the argument to not nerf cloak are the same to not nerf bolt escape.
Either you agree that bolt escape nerfs were not warranted and should be reverted or bolt escape was indeed op and the same holds true for cloak then.

Edit: Well now that i think about it - actually attitudes like this are the real problem. The funny thing is with this attidute i´m only doing a mimicry of what happened in all the nerf sorc topics by the people now defending their beloved cloak.
Must be shabby when the mirror is held up to you.

Junglejim82 · September 2015

Derra wrote: »

show previous quotes

blur wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

PainfulFAFA wrote: »

tennotsukai87 wrote: »

People keep saying use AoEs and stealth detect potions. I use these options, but with AoEs I can never guess where the NB has fled off to. Once I use that one AoE and miss, he or she is long gone. Just fyi, I'm using lightning flood. Stealth detect is an option that I've used a few times; though, when I do have a potion to use and utilize the detect potion that NB can run so fast in SC that I may or may not catch him in time.

As an aside, I do think NBs lack survivability in terms of class abilities, but I don't feel like SC should be spammable. Infinite Focused Aim -> SC can really bug a person without ever the chance to find them. Perhaps, ZOS can do a little nerf while giving a slight buff to another skill to help with survivability. I will agree that NB is pretty damn squishy.

thats your problem.

Lightning flood is imo a small range aoe.
Try using caltrops, steel tornado, bombard, lightning form, encase -_-, runes -_-, mines -__-,
impulse, mage light u.u

Seriously cloak doesnt need a nerf (i play a stam sorc).
Aspect of terror (fear) is what needs the nerfing!!!

caltrops - very expensive stamina cost, perfect way to line yourself up for being feared, again
steel tornado - pbaoe that does have a decent range, but if the nb is smart they'll cloak between your attacks and run a direction so that your next attack will miss
bombard - decent range and nice rood/snare, only real weakness is its a cone, so the closer you are to the nb the less they have to move to escape
lightning form - like steel tornado, but without having to spam it, nb's can do exactly the same thing to avoid you
encase like bombard, but doesn't damage and in my own experience is hit or miss in keeping them pinned
runes - requires you to either see the target or be attacked, decent if the nb hits you with a dot, but otherwise kinda meh at that
mines - really?
impulse - same as steel tornado, but less aoe, the dot can help but most nb's don't worry about dots
mage light - have you seen its effective aoe? Seems like it begins and ends on your own characters feet for how much range it has

Caltrops is really good for this. I use it constantly as do most stam sorcs (and other classes) to stop NBs.
Steel Tornado has a 12.5m range
Lightning Form works all the time for me and other popular Stam Sorcs like Xael and Fengrush.

Radiant Magelight is a 12m radius against players in Light Armor. You need to factor in Medium Armor bonus and Stealthty (Bosmer / Khajit) bonus. then again, this is a nerf cloak thread so that doesn't matter. 12m for RML, thats huge. At my feet my ass.

These type of threads are really bad and most of you should feel ashamed of yourselves. You don't seem to realize how cringeworthy and embarassing this thread is.

The small group of you looking for a scapegoat (cloak) are absolutely ridiculous. Your argument is that a NB gets away... newsflash, that's the point of the ability. Are you going to cry and whine about heals being able heal after you get cloaked nerfed? Stupid people everywhere...

I would express my condolences but since half of the people in this topic now defending nightblades have been arguing against sorcerers who made the same arguments with respect to bolt escape all i can do is laugh at this topic.
You had it coming.
Now the impending nerf gives me a warm feeling and makes me sleep well at night. Just try to view it as karma (because that´s essentially what it is - when they gutted sorcs abilities to get away it was clear that they would do so for every ability enabling someone to get away sooner or later. In the end the forumcryblades are responsible themselves).

This is exactly the problem . Sorc gets nerfed so I'm gonna do my best to get NBS nerfed now. Seen it on every gaming forum ever class wars. It's all b.s.

CP5 wrote: »

show previous quotes

PainfulFAFA wrote: »

tennotsukai87 wrote: »

People keep saying use AoEs and stealth detect potions. I use these options, but with AoEs I can never guess where the NB has fled off to. Once I use that one AoE and miss, he or she is long gone. Just fyi, I'm using lightning flood. Stealth detect is an option that I've used a few times; though, when I do have a potion to use and utilize the detect potion that NB can run so fast in SC that I may or may not catch him in time.

As an aside, I do think NBs lack survivability in terms of class abilities, but I don't feel like SC should be spammable. Infinite Focused Aim -> SC can really bug a person without ever the chance to find them. Perhaps, ZOS can do a little nerf while giving a slight buff to another skill to help with survivability. I will agree that NB is pretty damn squishy.

thats your problem.

Lightning flood is imo a small range aoe.
Try using caltrops, steel tornado, bombard, lightning form, encase -_-, runes -_-, mines -__-,
impulse, mage light u.u

Seriously cloak doesnt need a nerf (i play a stam sorc).
Aspect of terror (fear) is what needs the nerfing!!!

caltrops - very expensive stamina cost, perfect way to line yourself up for being feared, again
steel tornado - pbaoe that does have a decent range, but if the nb is smart they'll cloak between your attacks and run a direction so that your next attack will miss
bombard - decent range and nice rood/snare, only real weakness is its a cone, so the closer you are to the nb the less they have to move to escape
lightning form - like steel tornado, but without having to spam it, nb's can do exactly the same thing to avoid you
encase like bombard, but doesn't damage and in my own experience is hit or miss in keeping them pinned
runes - requires you to either see the target or be attacked, decent if the nb hits you with a dot, but otherwise kinda meh at that
mines - really?
impulse - same as steel tornado, but less aoe, the dot can help but most nb's don't worry about dots
mage light - have you seen its effective aoe? Seems like it begins and ends on your own characters feet for how much range it has

Typical response listing the reasons he doesn't want to slot a counter , tough luck deal with stealthers then . Caltrops and mage light along with flare and pots are the counters I hate . I don't want to use shield breaker , barrier , snare counters when they are situational but guess what I need those things when the situation arises or I'm bang in trouble so I run them . This is pvp . Rebalancing happens alot in pvp and I'm fine with it when warranted but a Nerf for cloak is laughable

DeanTheCat · September 2015

I'll leave this link here

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/219283/the-root-of-the-problem-a-lack-of-limits#latest

Implement those fixes and revert all the nerfs to bolt, dodge, block, damage and wards. The real problem isn't various abilities per se. It's just unchecked character power has pushed everything into the "Absurd" territory of power, and thus these nerfs are being tossed out by ZoS as cheap solutions to the problems.

Fix the problem at the root, not by putting a band-aid over the symptoms.

Derra · September 2015

Junglejim82 wrote: »

show previous quotes

Derra wrote: »

blur wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

PainfulFAFA wrote: »

tennotsukai87 wrote: »

People keep saying use AoEs and stealth detect potions. I use these options, but with AoEs I can never guess where the NB has fled off to. Once I use that one AoE and miss, he or she is long gone. Just fyi, I'm using lightning flood. Stealth detect is an option that I've used a few times; though, when I do have a potion to use and utilize the detect potion that NB can run so fast in SC that I may or may not catch him in time.

As an aside, I do think NBs lack survivability in terms of class abilities, but I don't feel like SC should be spammable. Infinite Focused Aim -> SC can really bug a person without ever the chance to find them. Perhaps, ZOS can do a little nerf while giving a slight buff to another skill to help with survivability. I will agree that NB is pretty damn squishy.

thats your problem.

Lightning flood is imo a small range aoe.
Try using caltrops, steel tornado, bombard, lightning form, encase -_-, runes -_-, mines -__-,
impulse, mage light u.u

Seriously cloak doesnt need a nerf (i play a stam sorc).
Aspect of terror (fear) is what needs the nerfing!!!

caltrops - very expensive stamina cost, perfect way to line yourself up for being feared, again
steel tornado - pbaoe that does have a decent range, but if the nb is smart they'll cloak between your attacks and run a direction so that your next attack will miss
bombard - decent range and nice rood/snare, only real weakness is its a cone, so the closer you are to the nb the less they have to move to escape
lightning form - like steel tornado, but without having to spam it, nb's can do exactly the same thing to avoid you
encase like bombard, but doesn't damage and in my own experience is hit or miss in keeping them pinned
runes - requires you to either see the target or be attacked, decent if the nb hits you with a dot, but otherwise kinda meh at that
mines - really?
impulse - same as steel tornado, but less aoe, the dot can help but most nb's don't worry about dots
mage light - have you seen its effective aoe? Seems like it begins and ends on your own characters feet for how much range it has

Caltrops is really good for this. I use it constantly as do most stam sorcs (and other classes) to stop NBs.
Steel Tornado has a 12.5m range
Lightning Form works all the time for me and other popular Stam Sorcs like Xael and Fengrush.

Radiant Magelight is a 12m radius against players in Light Armor. You need to factor in Medium Armor bonus and Stealthty (Bosmer / Khajit) bonus. then again, this is a nerf cloak thread so that doesn't matter. 12m for RML, thats huge. At my feet my ass.

These type of threads are really bad and most of you should feel ashamed of yourselves. You don't seem to realize how cringeworthy and embarassing this thread is.

The small group of you looking for a scapegoat (cloak) are absolutely ridiculous. Your argument is that a NB gets away... newsflash, that's the point of the ability. Are you going to cry and whine about heals being able heal after you get cloaked nerfed? Stupid people everywhere...

I would express my condolences but since half of the people in this topic now defending nightblades have been arguing against sorcerers who made the same arguments with respect to bolt escape all i can do is laugh at this topic.
You had it coming.
Now the impending nerf gives me a warm feeling and makes me sleep well at night. Just try to view it as karma (because that´s essentially what it is - when they gutted sorcs abilities to get away it was clear that they would do so for every ability enabling someone to get away sooner or later. In the end the forumcryblades are responsible themselves).

This is exactly the problem . Sorc gets nerfed so I'm gonna do my best to get NBS nerfed now. Seen it on every gaming forum ever class wars. It's all b.s.

Nope it´s not ***. That´s the problem. If you start nerfing one ability for one class you can´t just stop halfway through and leave similar options intact for other classes. That´s the problem with nerfing instead of buffing counters.

I´m currently getting my NB ready and pvping on it solo (magica based) and honestly i´m not concerned at all for cloak nerfs. I´ve adapted on my main and i will adapt on this char too.

Junglejim82 · September 2015

Derra wrote: »

show previous quotes

Junglejim82 wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

blur wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

PainfulFAFA wrote: »

tennotsukai87 wrote: »

People keep saying use AoEs and stealth detect potions. I use these options, but with AoEs I can never guess where the NB has fled off to. Once I use that one AoE and miss, he or she is long gone. Just fyi, I'm using lightning flood. Stealth detect is an option that I've used a few times; though, when I do have a potion to use and utilize the detect potion that NB can run so fast in SC that I may or may not catch him in time.

As an aside, I do think NBs lack survivability in terms of class abilities, but I don't feel like SC should be spammable. Infinite Focused Aim -> SC can really bug a person without ever the chance to find them. Perhaps, ZOS can do a little nerf while giving a slight buff to another skill to help with survivability. I will agree that NB is pretty damn squishy.

thats your problem.

Lightning flood is imo a small range aoe.
Try using caltrops, steel tornado, bombard, lightning form, encase -_-, runes -_-, mines -__-,
impulse, mage light u.u

Seriously cloak doesnt need a nerf (i play a stam sorc).
Aspect of terror (fear) is what needs the nerfing!!!

caltrops - very expensive stamina cost, perfect way to line yourself up for being feared, again
steel tornado - pbaoe that does have a decent range, but if the nb is smart they'll cloak between your attacks and run a direction so that your next attack will miss
bombard - decent range and nice rood/snare, only real weakness is its a cone, so the closer you are to the nb the less they have to move to escape
lightning form - like steel tornado, but without having to spam it, nb's can do exactly the same thing to avoid you
encase like bombard, but doesn't damage and in my own experience is hit or miss in keeping them pinned
runes - requires you to either see the target or be attacked, decent if the nb hits you with a dot, but otherwise kinda meh at that
mines - really?
impulse - same as steel tornado, but less aoe, the dot can help but most nb's don't worry about dots
mage light - have you seen its effective aoe? Seems like it begins and ends on your own characters feet for how much range it has

Caltrops is really good for this. I use it constantly as do most stam sorcs (and other classes) to stop NBs.
Steel Tornado has a 12.5m range
Lightning Form works all the time for me and other popular Stam Sorcs like Xael and Fengrush.

Radiant Magelight is a 12m radius against players in Light Armor. You need to factor in Medium Armor bonus and Stealthty (Bosmer / Khajit) bonus. then again, this is a nerf cloak thread so that doesn't matter. 12m for RML, thats huge. At my feet my ass.

These type of threads are really bad and most of you should feel ashamed of yourselves. You don't seem to realize how cringeworthy and embarassing this thread is.

The small group of you looking for a scapegoat (cloak) are absolutely ridiculous. Your argument is that a NB gets away... newsflash, that's the point of the ability. Are you going to cry and whine about heals being able heal after you get cloaked nerfed? Stupid people everywhere...

I would express my condolences but since half of the people in this topic now defending nightblades have been arguing against sorcerers who made the same arguments with respect to bolt escape all i can do is laugh at this topic.
You had it coming.
Now the impending nerf gives me a warm feeling and makes me sleep well at night. Just try to view it as karma (because that´s essentially what it is - when they gutted sorcs abilities to get away it was clear that they would do so for every ability enabling someone to get away sooner or later. In the end the forumcryblades are responsible themselves).

This is exactly the problem . Sorc gets nerfed so I'm gonna do my best to get NBS nerfed now. Seen it on every gaming forum ever class wars. It's all b.s.

Nope it´s not ***. That´s the problem. If you start nerfing one ability for one class you can´t just stop halfway through and leave similar options intact for other classes. That´s the problem with nerfing instead of buffing counters.

I´m currently getting my NB ready and pvping on it solo (magica based) and honestly i´m not concerned at all for cloak nerfs. I´ve adapted on my main and i will adapt on this char too.

If you're comparing bolt escape and cloak it's apples and oranges . You bolt and cloaking isn't gonna make me keep up as you disappear over the horizon. You attack me , I cloak and I'm still there albeit invisible. However use a counter and I'm there for all to see right infront of you . Nah the comparable thing we had was bow + dodge + double take + sprint then I could just about chase down a sorc only to fight him out of resources by the time I caught him . That was nerfed in the patch in case you never noticed. Bow dodge and major expedition no longer stack . Just because one skill was unbalanced doesn't mean other skills are.

Derra · September 2015

Junglejim82 wrote: »

show previous quotes

Derra wrote: »

Junglejim82 wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

blur wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

PainfulFAFA wrote: »

tennotsukai87 wrote: »

People keep saying use AoEs and stealth detect potions. I use these options, but with AoEs I can never guess where the NB has fled off to. Once I use that one AoE and miss, he or she is long gone. Just fyi, I'm using lightning flood. Stealth detect is an option that I've used a few times; though, when I do have a potion to use and utilize the detect potion that NB can run so fast in SC that I may or may not catch him in time.

As an aside, I do think NBs lack survivability in terms of class abilities, but I don't feel like SC should be spammable. Infinite Focused Aim -> SC can really bug a person without ever the chance to find them. Perhaps, ZOS can do a little nerf while giving a slight buff to another skill to help with survivability. I will agree that NB is pretty damn squishy.

thats your problem.

Lightning flood is imo a small range aoe.
Try using caltrops, steel tornado, bombard, lightning form, encase -_-, runes -_-, mines -__-,
impulse, mage light u.u

Seriously cloak doesnt need a nerf (i play a stam sorc).
Aspect of terror (fear) is what needs the nerfing!!!

caltrops - very expensive stamina cost, perfect way to line yourself up for being feared, again
steel tornado - pbaoe that does have a decent range, but if the nb is smart they'll cloak between your attacks and run a direction so that your next attack will miss
bombard - decent range and nice rood/snare, only real weakness is its a cone, so the closer you are to the nb the less they have to move to escape
lightning form - like steel tornado, but without having to spam it, nb's can do exactly the same thing to avoid you
encase like bombard, but doesn't damage and in my own experience is hit or miss in keeping them pinned
runes - requires you to either see the target or be attacked, decent if the nb hits you with a dot, but otherwise kinda meh at that
mines - really?
impulse - same as steel tornado, but less aoe, the dot can help but most nb's don't worry about dots
mage light - have you seen its effective aoe? Seems like it begins and ends on your own characters feet for how much range it has

Caltrops is really good for this. I use it constantly as do most stam sorcs (and other classes) to stop NBs.
Steel Tornado has a 12.5m range
Lightning Form works all the time for me and other popular Stam Sorcs like Xael and Fengrush.

Radiant Magelight is a 12m radius against players in Light Armor. You need to factor in Medium Armor bonus and Stealthty (Bosmer / Khajit) bonus. then again, this is a nerf cloak thread so that doesn't matter. 12m for RML, thats huge. At my feet my ass.

These type of threads are really bad and most of you should feel ashamed of yourselves. You don't seem to realize how cringeworthy and embarassing this thread is.

The small group of you looking for a scapegoat (cloak) are absolutely ridiculous. Your argument is that a NB gets away... newsflash, that's the point of the ability. Are you going to cry and whine about heals being able heal after you get cloaked nerfed? Stupid people everywhere...

I would express my condolences but since half of the people in this topic now defending nightblades have been arguing against sorcerers who made the same arguments with respect to bolt escape all i can do is laugh at this topic.
You had it coming.
Now the impending nerf gives me a warm feeling and makes me sleep well at night. Just try to view it as karma (because that´s essentially what it is - when they gutted sorcs abilities to get away it was clear that they would do so for every ability enabling someone to get away sooner or later. In the end the forumcryblades are responsible themselves).

This is exactly the problem . Sorc gets nerfed so I'm gonna do my best to get NBS nerfed now. Seen it on every gaming forum ever class wars. It's all b.s.

Nope it´s not ***. That´s the problem. If you start nerfing one ability for one class you can´t just stop halfway through and leave similar options intact for other classes. That´s the problem with nerfing instead of buffing counters.

I´m currently getting my NB ready and pvping on it solo (magica based) and honestly i´m not concerned at all for cloak nerfs. I´ve adapted on my main and i will adapt on this char too.

If you're comparing bolt escape and cloak it's apples and oranges . You bolt and cloaking isn't gonna make me keep up as you disappear over the horizon. You attack me , I cloak and I'm still there albeit invisible. However use a counter and I'm there for all to see right infront of you . Nah the comparable thing we had was bow + dodge + double take + sprint then I could just about chase down a sorc only to fight him out of resources by the time I caught him . That was nerfed in the patch in case you never noticed. Bow dodge and major expedition no longer stack . Just because one skill was unbalanced doesn't mean other skills are.

Strange i´m feeling quite a bit more potent in using cloak + shadow image than i´ve ever felt using bolt escape based on the sheer fact that my enemies are not able to see me and react accordingly.

Also gapclosers. They´re in the same ballpark for countering bolt as using aoe is for cloak (6m range against a class with 65% movementspeed while cloaked - LOL) to counter cloak.

Edit: Ofc i´m arguing from the pov of a magica nb. You can´t take into account stambuilds when balancing a magica ability.

ToRelax · September 2015

SourishWhale wrote: »

If nightblades get "the same treatment" as sorcs, then shouldn't they an OP damage shield as we'll?

So we nerf cloak, but give NBs a shield so they can roll on 10 people with an I win button instead?

I dunno if that's a great solution... Haha

Btw, everyone has access to mist form and invis pots? Why don't you use them? Because you say you don't have room on your bar or inventory for a skill which has no offensive power? Hmmmm.......

Nightblades are squishy. We all know that everyone would choose to 1v1 a NB over any other class.

I know when I see a NB when I'm running my Stamplar I head straight for them!

No heals. No damage shields. No other escape mechanism.

Your thread is invalid.

I would give a lot for to see NBs with Hardened Ward instead of Cloak, especially if my Sorc could change those skills, too.
No decent NB would have that "trade" though. ^^

I do use both Mistform and invisbility potions on my Sorc. Mistform is countered by shieldbreaker + gapclosers (the same things countering shields + bolt escape) and invisiblity potions break easily without being able to reactivate them for 30-45 seconds.
And no, I would rather 1v1 any other class than NB. Used to be DK because scales always countered my builds, but just look in what a place they are now. On my NB i counted 2 skills I didn't want to take into my build. On my DK I counted 7...

Tonturri · September 2015

Nah the comparable thing we had was bow + dodge + double take + sprint then I could just about chase down a sorc only to fight him out of resources by the time I caught him

The sorc will run out of magicka LONG before you run out of whatever resource you were using to chase him.

Junglejim82 · September 2015

Tonturri wrote: »

show previous quotes

Nah the comparable thing we had was bow + dodge + double take + sprint then I could just about chase down a sorc only to fight him out of resources by the time I caught him

The sorc will run out of magicka LONG before you run out of whatever resource you were using to chase him.

Tbh that's not the case I've experienced it 1st hand plenty of times it was really pretty even in 1.6 obviously I'm not talking about 1.7 with the escape change . Like usain bolt vs usain bolt. If my stam was full I'd maybe just have enough stam left to gap close by the time I'd caught up enough to use it . That was our mobility escape if you like as stam NBS .

Derra wrote: »

show previous quotes

Junglejim82 wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Junglejim82 wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

blur wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

PainfulFAFA wrote: »

tennotsukai87 wrote: »

People keep saying use AoEs and stealth detect potions. I use these options, but with AoEs I can never guess where the NB has fled off to. Once I use that one AoE and miss, he or she is long gone. Just fyi, I'm using lightning flood. Stealth detect is an option that I've used a few times; though, when I do have a potion to use and utilize the detect potion that NB can run so fast in SC that I may or may not catch him in time.

As an aside, I do think NBs lack survivability in terms of class abilities, but I don't feel like SC should be spammable. Infinite Focused Aim -> SC can really bug a person without ever the chance to find them. Perhaps, ZOS can do a little nerf while giving a slight buff to another skill to help with survivability. I will agree that NB is pretty damn squishy.

thats your problem.

Lightning flood is imo a small range aoe.
Try using caltrops, steel tornado, bombard, lightning form, encase -_-, runes -_-, mines -__-,
impulse, mage light u.u

Seriously cloak doesnt need a nerf (i play a stam sorc).
Aspect of terror (fear) is what needs the nerfing!!!

caltrops - very expensive stamina cost, perfect way to line yourself up for being feared, again
steel tornado - pbaoe that does have a decent range, but if the nb is smart they'll cloak between your attacks and run a direction so that your next attack will miss
bombard - decent range and nice rood/snare, only real weakness is its a cone, so the closer you are to the nb the less they have to move to escape
lightning form - like steel tornado, but without having to spam it, nb's can do exactly the same thing to avoid you
encase like bombard, but doesn't damage and in my own experience is hit or miss in keeping them pinned
runes - requires you to either see the target or be attacked, decent if the nb hits you with a dot, but otherwise kinda meh at that
mines - really?
impulse - same as steel tornado, but less aoe, the dot can help but most nb's don't worry about dots
mage light - have you seen its effective aoe? Seems like it begins and ends on your own characters feet for how much range it has

Caltrops is really good for this. I use it constantly as do most stam sorcs (and other classes) to stop NBs.
Steel Tornado has a 12.5m range
Lightning Form works all the time for me and other popular Stam Sorcs like Xael and Fengrush.

Radiant Magelight is a 12m radius against players in Light Armor. You need to factor in Medium Armor bonus and Stealthty (Bosmer / Khajit) bonus. then again, this is a nerf cloak thread so that doesn't matter. 12m for RML, thats huge. At my feet my ass.

These type of threads are really bad and most of you should feel ashamed of yourselves. You don't seem to realize how cringeworthy and embarassing this thread is.

The small group of you looking for a scapegoat (cloak) are absolutely ridiculous. Your argument is that a NB gets away... newsflash, that's the point of the ability. Are you going to cry and whine about heals being able heal after you get cloaked nerfed? Stupid people everywhere...

I would express my condolences but since half of the people in this topic now defending nightblades have been arguing against sorcerers who made the same arguments with respect to bolt escape all i can do is laugh at this topic.
You had it coming.
Now the impending nerf gives me a warm feeling and makes me sleep well at night. Just try to view it as karma (because that´s essentially what it is - when they gutted sorcs abilities to get away it was clear that they would do so for every ability enabling someone to get away sooner or later. In the end the forumcryblades are responsible themselves).

This is exactly the problem . Sorc gets nerfed so I'm gonna do my best to get NBS nerfed now. Seen it on every gaming forum ever class wars. It's all b.s.

Nope it´s not ***. That´s the problem. If you start nerfing one ability for one class you can´t just stop halfway through and leave similar options intact for other classes. That´s the problem with nerfing instead of buffing counters.

I´m currently getting my NB ready and pvping on it solo (magica based) and honestly i´m not concerned at all for cloak nerfs. I´ve adapted on my main and i will adapt on this char too.

If you're comparing bolt escape and cloak it's apples and oranges . You bolt and cloaking isn't gonna make me keep up as you disappear over the horizon. You attack me , I cloak and I'm still there albeit invisible. However use a counter and I'm there for all to see right infront of you . Nah the comparable thing we had was bow + dodge + double take + sprint then I could just about chase down a sorc only to fight him out of resources by the time I caught him . That was nerfed in the patch in case you never noticed. Bow dodge and major expedition no longer stack . Just because one skill was unbalanced doesn't mean other skills are.

Edit: Ofc i´m arguing from the pov of a magica nb. You can´t take into account stambuilds when balancing a magica ability.

Why can't you ? I'm a stamblade , cloak , double take , siphoning strikes , mass hysteria are regularly on my bars . How they affect my build are completely relevant and should be taken into account

Derra · September 2015

Junglejim82 wrote: »

show previous quotes

Tonturri wrote: »

Nah the comparable thing we had was bow + dodge + double take + sprint then I could just about chase down a sorc only to fight him out of resources by the time I caught him

The sorc will run out of magicka LONG before you run out of whatever resource you were using to chase him.

Tbh that's not the case I've experienced it 1st hand plenty of times it was really pretty even in 1.6 obviously I'm not talking about 1.7 with the escape change . Like usain bolt vs usain bolt. If my stam was full I'd maybe just have enough stam left to gap close by the time I'd caught up enough to use it . That was our mobility escape if you like as stam NBS .
show previous quotes

Derra wrote: »

Junglejim82 wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Junglejim82 wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

blur wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

PainfulFAFA wrote: »

tennotsukai87 wrote: »

People keep saying use AoEs and stealth detect potions. I use these options, but with AoEs I can never guess where the NB has fled off to. Once I use that one AoE and miss, he or she is long gone. Just fyi, I'm using lightning flood. Stealth detect is an option that I've used a few times; though, when I do have a potion to use and utilize the detect potion that NB can run so fast in SC that I may or may not catch him in time.

As an aside, I do think NBs lack survivability in terms of class abilities, but I don't feel like SC should be spammable. Infinite Focused Aim -> SC can really bug a person without ever the chance to find them. Perhaps, ZOS can do a little nerf while giving a slight buff to another skill to help with survivability. I will agree that NB is pretty damn squishy.

thats your problem.

Lightning flood is imo a small range aoe.
Try using caltrops, steel tornado, bombard, lightning form, encase -_-, runes -_-, mines -__-,
impulse, mage light u.u

Seriously cloak doesnt need a nerf (i play a stam sorc).
Aspect of terror (fear) is what needs the nerfing!!!

caltrops - very expensive stamina cost, perfect way to line yourself up for being feared, again
steel tornado - pbaoe that does have a decent range, but if the nb is smart they'll cloak between your attacks and run a direction so that your next attack will miss
bombard - decent range and nice rood/snare, only real weakness is its a cone, so the closer you are to the nb the less they have to move to escape
lightning form - like steel tornado, but without having to spam it, nb's can do exactly the same thing to avoid you
encase like bombard, but doesn't damage and in my own experience is hit or miss in keeping them pinned
runes - requires you to either see the target or be attacked, decent if the nb hits you with a dot, but otherwise kinda meh at that
mines - really?
impulse - same as steel tornado, but less aoe, the dot can help but most nb's don't worry about dots
mage light - have you seen its effective aoe? Seems like it begins and ends on your own characters feet for how much range it has

Caltrops is really good for this. I use it constantly as do most stam sorcs (and other classes) to stop NBs.
Steel Tornado has a 12.5m range
Lightning Form works all the time for me and other popular Stam Sorcs like Xael and Fengrush.

Radiant Magelight is a 12m radius against players in Light Armor. You need to factor in Medium Armor bonus and Stealthty (Bosmer / Khajit) bonus. then again, this is a nerf cloak thread so that doesn't matter. 12m for RML, thats huge. At my feet my ass.

These type of threads are really bad and most of you should feel ashamed of yourselves. You don't seem to realize how cringeworthy and embarassing this thread is.

The small group of you looking for a scapegoat (cloak) are absolutely ridiculous. Your argument is that a NB gets away... newsflash, that's the point of the ability. Are you going to cry and whine about heals being able heal after you get cloaked nerfed? Stupid people everywhere...

I would express my condolences but since half of the people in this topic now defending nightblades have been arguing against sorcerers who made the same arguments with respect to bolt escape all i can do is laugh at this topic.
You had it coming.
Now the impending nerf gives me a warm feeling and makes me sleep well at night. Just try to view it as karma (because that´s essentially what it is - when they gutted sorcs abilities to get away it was clear that they would do so for every ability enabling someone to get away sooner or later. In the end the forumcryblades are responsible themselves).

This is exactly the problem . Sorc gets nerfed so I'm gonna do my best to get NBS nerfed now. Seen it on every gaming forum ever class wars. It's all b.s.

Nope it´s not ***. That´s the problem. If you start nerfing one ability for one class you can´t just stop halfway through and leave similar options intact for other classes. That´s the problem with nerfing instead of buffing counters.

I´m currently getting my NB ready and pvping on it solo (magica based) and honestly i´m not concerned at all for cloak nerfs. I´ve adapted on my main and i will adapt on this char too.

If you're comparing bolt escape and cloak it's apples and oranges . You bolt and cloaking isn't gonna make me keep up as you disappear over the horizon. You attack me , I cloak and I'm still there albeit invisible. However use a counter and I'm there for all to see right infront of you . Nah the comparable thing we had was bow + dodge + double take + sprint then I could just about chase down a sorc only to fight him out of resources by the time I caught him . That was nerfed in the patch in case you never noticed. Bow dodge and major expedition no longer stack . Just because one skill was unbalanced doesn't mean other skills are.

Edit: Ofc i´m arguing from the pov of a magica nb. You can´t take into account stambuilds when balancing a magica ability.

Why can't you ? I'm a stamblade , cloak , double take , siphoning strikes , mass hysteria are regularly on my bars . How they affect my build are completely relevant and should be taken into account

Because the ability is not a big problem on stamina builds (i´d consider stamina builds with above 1800 magica reg hybrids). Bolt escape or sorc shields were never a problem on stamina sorcs were they?

With the way the resource system in eso is working they have to balance an ability for builds handtailored for maximum efficiency when using that ability. That´s why we got another bolt escape nerf in 1.7 and why there is a wonderful shieldbreaker set.
Sadly they have to look at what´s possible and not at what´s happening when a non optimised build uses an ability.

CP5 · September 2015

Junglejim82 wrote: »

show previous quotes

CP5 wrote: »

PainfulFAFA wrote: »

tennotsukai87 wrote: »

People keep saying use AoEs and stealth detect potions. I use these options, but with AoEs I can never guess where the NB has fled off to. Once I use that one AoE and miss, he or she is long gone. Just fyi, I'm using lightning flood. Stealth detect is an option that I've used a few times; though, when I do have a potion to use and utilize the detect potion that NB can run so fast in SC that I may or may not catch him in time.

As an aside, I do think NBs lack survivability in terms of class abilities, but I don't feel like SC should be spammable. Infinite Focused Aim -> SC can really bug a person without ever the chance to find them. Perhaps, ZOS can do a little nerf while giving a slight buff to another skill to help with survivability. I will agree that NB is pretty damn squishy.

thats your problem.

Lightning flood is imo a small range aoe.
Try using caltrops, steel tornado, bombard, lightning form, encase -_-, runes -_-, mines -__-,
impulse, mage light u.u

Seriously cloak doesnt need a nerf (i play a stam sorc).
Aspect of terror (fear) is what needs the nerfing!!!

caltrops - very expensive stamina cost, perfect way to line yourself up for being feared, again
steel tornado - pbaoe that does have a decent range, but if the nb is smart they'll cloak between your attacks and run a direction so that your next attack will miss
bombard - decent range and nice rood/snare, only real weakness is its a cone, so the closer you are to the nb the less they have to move to escape
lightning form - like steel tornado, but without having to spam it, nb's can do exactly the same thing to avoid you
encase like bombard, but doesn't damage and in my own experience is hit or miss in keeping them pinned
runes - requires you to either see the target or be attacked, decent if the nb hits you with a dot, but otherwise kinda meh at that
mines - really?
impulse - same as steel tornado, but less aoe, the dot can help but most nb's don't worry about dots
mage light - have you seen its effective aoe? Seems like it begins and ends on your own characters feet for how much range it has

Typical response listing the reasons he doesn't want to slot a counter , tough luck deal with stealthers then . Caltrops and mage light along with flare and pots are the counters I hate . I don't want to use shield breaker , barrier , snare counters when they are situational but guess what I need those things when the situation arises or I'm bang in trouble so I run them . This is pvp . Rebalancing happens alot in pvp and I'm fine with it when warranted but a Nerf for cloak is laughable

I use a fair number of those skills and was giving my opinion on them. From my experience using radiant magelight (which a particular dk tank of mine always has on) I find if I don't spam invasion the nb will be able to get out of my range and cloak off. When i'm on either of my two sorcs lightning form's 1s interval between hits is enough cloaked time for a good nb to go in a different direction and clear the area. My stamina sorc often has bombard on their bar and again, the closer the enemy is to you the less area the skill helps you check, that's just math. Sorry that bringing my opinion on skills into this is some sort of taboo. If you feel any of the skills I talked on are in some way vastly superior than i've experienced please elaborate, we all know of caltrops massive aoe so I would say that one is fine but if you want to talk about the rest.

Sneaky-Snurr · September 2015

blur wrote: »

Caltrops is really good for this. I use it constantly as do most stam sorcs (and other classes) to stop NBs.
Steel Tornado has a 12.5m range
Lightning Form works all the time for me and other popular Stam Sorcs like Xael and Fengrush.

Radiant Magelight is a 12m radius against players in Light Armor. You need to factor in Medium Armor bonus and Stealthty (Bosmer / Khajit) bonus. then again, this is a nerf cloak thread so that doesn't matter. 12m for RML, thats huge. At my feet my ass.

These type of threads are really bad and most of you should feel ashamed of yourselves. You don't seem to realize how cringeworthy and embarassing this thread is.

The small group of you looking for a scapegoat (cloak) are absolutely ridiculous. Your argument is that a NB gets away... newsflash, that's the point of the ability. Are you going to cry and whine about heals being able heal after you get cloaked nerfed? Stupid people everywhere...

@blur
I thank you for expressing the point of view of not nerfing any skill. :thumbsup:
To be honest, attempting to reason with the ones wanting to nerf the game is just a waste of time and energy hence why I've stopped responding them as they're impossible to reason with. I've found your arguments to be spot on but somehow they fail to comprehend the points you conveyed. You can check out my previous replies to those people in this thread and they come nowhere close to answering my simple questions because they simply don't have one. Most of their arguments are derailed from the essence of the debate and proves to be nonsensical, narrow-scoped and somewhat trivial.

They seem to be extremely rigid as they don't consider how the nerf could affect the class as a whole in regards to a stam and magicka builds which is already restrictive due to the nature that class abilities only have 3 skills scaled off of stam but they leave out stam users' concerns on that. The simple question I asked was something along the lines of 'What's left for NB stam users in terms of utilising class abilities since there are only a mere 3 class abilities that scale off of stamina in the whole class' and without any surprises, they failed to answer that question and proceeded with a quick change of topic.

CP5 · September 2015

Sneaky-Snurr wrote: »

show previous quotes

blur wrote: »

Caltrops is really good for this. I use it constantly as do most stam sorcs (and other classes) to stop NBs.
Steel Tornado has a 12.5m range
Lightning Form works all the time for me and other popular Stam Sorcs like Xael and Fengrush.

Radiant Magelight is a 12m radius against players in Light Armor. You need to factor in Medium Armor bonus and Stealthty (Bosmer / Khajit) bonus. then again, this is a nerf cloak thread so that doesn't matter. 12m for RML, thats huge. At my feet my ass.

These type of threads are really bad and most of you should feel ashamed of yourselves. You don't seem to realize how cringeworthy and embarassing this thread is.

The small group of you looking for a scapegoat (cloak) are absolutely ridiculous. Your argument is that a NB gets away... newsflash, that's the point of the ability. Are you going to cry and whine about heals being able heal after you get cloaked nerfed? Stupid people everywhere...

@blur
I thank you for expressing the point of view of not nerfing any skill. :thumbsup:
To be honest, attempting to reason with the ones wanting to nerf the game is just a waste of time and energy hence why I've stopped responding them as they're impossible to reason with. I've found your arguments to be spot on but somehow they fail to comprehend the points you conveyed. You can check out my previous replies to those people in this thread and they come nowhere close to answering my simple questions because they simply don't have one. Most of their arguments are derailed from the essence of the debate and proves to be nonsensical, narrow-scoped and somewhat trivial.

They seem to be extremely rigid as they don't consider how the nerf could affect the class as a whole in regards to a stam and magicka builds which is already restrictive due to the nature that class abilities only have 3 skills scaled off of stam but they leave out stam users' concerns on that. The simple question I asked was something along the lines of 'What's left for NB stam users in terms of utilising class abilities since there are only a mere 3 class abilities that scale off of stamina in the whole class' and without any surprises, they failed to answer that question and proceeded with a quick change of topic.

Great point, but I would like to bring up something I read into in your 2nd paragraph. If you didn't mention NB's explicitly it could easily be taken as a post directed to sorcerer's. And if that and if you didn't mention stamina morphs your post is applicable to many of the nerfs from a year back. Thinking at this point just mass ignoring nerf threads would be the best option, despite the fact that doing that would make it look like a larger portion of the community is focused on nerfing things.

ChefZero · September 2015

Guys, Staminablade with S&B is much stronger as a Magickablade atm. So don't blame Cloak...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MfGW4eYsJ_g

And: http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/de/discussion/218821/batcat-stamina-nightblade-s-b-build-pvp#latest

revonine · September 2015

ChefZero wrote: »

Guys, Staminablade with S&B is much stronger as a Magickablade atm. So don't blame Cloak...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MfGW4eYsJ_g

https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=3&v=fXWztI_y_xA

Agreed, it's why there's so many vids of NBs with S&B lately. The damage of a stamina NB with some of the utility of a magicka one. Crazy good.

CP5 · September 2015

ChefZero wrote: »

Guys, Staminablade with S&B is much stronger as a Magickablade atm. So don't blame Cloak...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MfGW4eYsJ_g

And: http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/de/discussion/218821/batcat-stamina-nightblade-s-b-build-pvp#latest

Just, 2 things. 1 "So don't blame Cloak", both of those videos show effective and frequent use of the skill, which I would say was more than a bit helpful in making those clips possible. 2 This is how I feel each class should be, more distinct with the ability to apply most class skills to most builds to do things other classes can't do in a meaningful way, more skills should be like cloak in being that defined and unique. Sadly with the current state of the game the nerf snowball will keep on rolling.

Lettigall · September 2015

Sneaky-Snurr wrote: »

show previous quotes

blur wrote: »

Caltrops is really good for this. I use it constantly as do most stam sorcs (and other classes) to stop NBs.
Steel Tornado has a 12.5m range
Lightning Form works all the time for me and other popular Stam Sorcs like Xael and Fengrush.

Radiant Magelight is a 12m radius against players in Light Armor. You need to factor in Medium Armor bonus and Stealthty (Bosmer / Khajit) bonus. then again, this is a nerf cloak thread so that doesn't matter. 12m for RML, thats huge. At my feet my ass.

These type of threads are really bad and most of you should feel ashamed of yourselves. You don't seem to realize how cringeworthy and embarassing this thread is.

The small group of you looking for a scapegoat (cloak) are absolutely ridiculous. Your argument is that a NB gets away... newsflash, that's the point of the ability. Are you going to cry and whine about heals being able heal after you get cloaked nerfed? Stupid people everywhere...

@blur
I thank you for expressing the point of view of not nerfing any skill. :thumbsup:
To be honest, attempting to reason with the ones wanting to nerf the game is just a waste of time and energy hence why I've stopped responding them as they're impossible to reason with. I've found your arguments to be spot on but somehow they fail to comprehend the points you conveyed. You can check out my previous replies to those people in this thread and they come nowhere close to answering my simple questions because they simply don't have one. Most of their arguments are derailed from the essence of the debate and proves to be nonsensical, narrow-scoped and somewhat trivial.

They seem to be extremely rigid as they don't consider how the nerf could affect the class as a whole in regards to a stam and magicka builds which is already restrictive due to the nature that class abilities only have 3 skills scaled off of stam but they leave out stam users' concerns on that. The simple question I asked was something along the lines of 'What's left for NB stam users in terms of utilising class abilities since there are only a mere 3 class abilities that scale off of stamina in the whole class' and without any surprises, they failed to answer that question and proceeded with a quick change of topic.

You described problem effecting every stamina build- classes have only few stamina morphs! It's not NB problem alone, Temps have 3 class stamina morphs, DKs 2 morphs and sorcs(about them maybe I'm wrong) 2 morphs. Stop acting like special snowflake!

Derra · September 2015

Lettigall wrote: »

show previous quotes

Sneaky-Snurr wrote: »

blur wrote: »

Caltrops is really good for this. I use it constantly as do most stam sorcs (and other classes) to stop NBs.
Steel Tornado has a 12.5m range
Lightning Form works all the time for me and other popular Stam Sorcs like Xael and Fengrush.

Radiant Magelight is a 12m radius against players in Light Armor. You need to factor in Medium Armor bonus and Stealthty (Bosmer / Khajit) bonus. then again, this is a nerf cloak thread so that doesn't matter. 12m for RML, thats huge. At my feet my ass.

These type of threads are really bad and most of you should feel ashamed of yourselves. You don't seem to realize how cringeworthy and embarassing this thread is.

The small group of you looking for a scapegoat (cloak) are absolutely ridiculous. Your argument is that a NB gets away... newsflash, that's the point of the ability. Are you going to cry and whine about heals being able heal after you get cloaked nerfed? Stupid people everywhere...

@blur
I thank you for expressing the point of view of not nerfing any skill. :thumbsup:
To be honest, attempting to reason with the ones wanting to nerf the game is just a waste of time and energy hence why I've stopped responding them as they're impossible to reason with. I've found your arguments to be spot on but somehow they fail to comprehend the points you conveyed. You can check out my previous replies to those people in this thread and they come nowhere close to answering my simple questions because they simply don't have one. Most of their arguments are derailed from the essence of the debate and proves to be nonsensical, narrow-scoped and somewhat trivial.

They seem to be extremely rigid as they don't consider how the nerf could affect the class as a whole in regards to a stam and magicka builds which is already restrictive due to the nature that class abilities only have 3 skills scaled off of stam but they leave out stam users' concerns on that. The simple question I asked was something along the lines of 'What's left for NB stam users in terms of utilising class abilities since there are only a mere 3 class abilities that scale off of stamina in the whole class' and without any surprises, they failed to answer that question and proceeded with a quick change of topic.

You described problem effecting every stamina build- classes have only few stamina morphs! It's not NB problem alone, Temps have 3 class stamina morphs, DKs 2 morphs and sorcs(about them maybe I'm wrong) 2 morphs. Stop acting like special snowflake!

^this

Also it´s pretty funny that you want to stop nerfing now when the only class who was not affected by any major rebalancing (aka nerf) up to now is NB.
"I´m on top of the foodchain. I like it here. We should aim to preserve the status quo." - Most NBs probably.

ChefZero · September 2015

CP5 wrote: »

1 "So don't blame Cloak", both of those videos show effective and frequent use of the skill, which I would say was more than a bit helpful in making those clips possible.

Yep, they use it well but they don't 'spam' it.

revonine · September 2015

i never agreed with the sorc nerf i don't agree with this hypothetical nerf either

Xvorg · September 2015

Derra wrote: »

show previous quotes

Junglejim82 wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Junglejim82 wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

blur wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

PainfulFAFA wrote: »

tennotsukai87 wrote: »

People keep saying use AoEs and stealth detect potions. I use these options, but with AoEs I can never guess where the NB has fled off to. Once I use that one AoE and miss, he or she is long gone. Just fyi, I'm using lightning flood. Stealth detect is an option that I've used a few times; though, when I do have a potion to use and utilize the detect potion that NB can run so fast in SC that I may or may not catch him in time.

As an aside, I do think NBs lack survivability in terms of class abilities, but I don't feel like SC should be spammable. Infinite Focused Aim -> SC can really bug a person without ever the chance to find them. Perhaps, ZOS can do a little nerf while giving a slight buff to another skill to help with survivability. I will agree that NB is pretty damn squishy.

thats your problem.

Lightning flood is imo a small range aoe.
Try using caltrops, steel tornado, bombard, lightning form, encase -_-, runes -_-, mines -__-,
impulse, mage light u.u

Seriously cloak doesnt need a nerf (i play a stam sorc).
Aspect of terror (fear) is what needs the nerfing!!!

caltrops - very expensive stamina cost, perfect way to line yourself up for being feared, again
steel tornado - pbaoe that does have a decent range, but if the nb is smart they'll cloak between your attacks and run a direction so that your next attack will miss
bombard - decent range and nice rood/snare, only real weakness is its a cone, so the closer you are to the nb the less they have to move to escape
lightning form - like steel tornado, but without having to spam it, nb's can do exactly the same thing to avoid you
encase like bombard, but doesn't damage and in my own experience is hit or miss in keeping them pinned
runes - requires you to either see the target or be attacked, decent if the nb hits you with a dot, but otherwise kinda meh at that
mines - really?
impulse - same as steel tornado, but less aoe, the dot can help but most nb's don't worry about dots
mage light - have you seen its effective aoe? Seems like it begins and ends on your own characters feet for how much range it has

Caltrops is really good for this. I use it constantly as do most stam sorcs (and other classes) to stop NBs.
Steel Tornado has a 12.5m range
Lightning Form works all the time for me and other popular Stam Sorcs like Xael and Fengrush.

Radiant Magelight is a 12m radius against players in Light Armor. You need to factor in Medium Armor bonus and Stealthty (Bosmer / Khajit) bonus. then again, this is a nerf cloak thread so that doesn't matter. 12m for RML, thats huge. At my feet my ass.

These type of threads are really bad and most of you should feel ashamed of yourselves. You don't seem to realize how cringeworthy and embarassing this thread is.

The small group of you looking for a scapegoat (cloak) are absolutely ridiculous. Your argument is that a NB gets away... newsflash, that's the point of the ability. Are you going to cry and whine about heals being able heal after you get cloaked nerfed? Stupid people everywhere...

I would express my condolences but since half of the people in this topic now defending nightblades have been arguing against sorcerers who made the same arguments with respect to bolt escape all i can do is laugh at this topic.
You had it coming.
Now the impending nerf gives me a warm feeling and makes me sleep well at night. Just try to view it as karma (because that´s essentially what it is - when they gutted sorcs abilities to get away it was clear that they would do so for every ability enabling someone to get away sooner or later. In the end the forumcryblades are responsible themselves).

This is exactly the problem . Sorc gets nerfed so I'm gonna do my best to get NBS nerfed now. Seen it on every gaming forum ever class wars. It's all b.s.

Nope it´s not ***. That´s the problem. If you start nerfing one ability for one class you can´t just stop halfway through and leave similar options intact for other classes. That´s the problem with nerfing instead of buffing counters.

I´m currently getting my NB ready and pvping on it solo (magica based) and honestly i´m not concerned at all for cloak nerfs. I´ve adapted on my main and i will adapt on this char too.

If you're comparing bolt escape and cloak it's apples and oranges . You bolt and cloaking isn't gonna make me keep up as you disappear over the horizon. You attack me , I cloak and I'm still there albeit invisible. However use a counter and I'm there for all to see right infront of you . Nah the comparable thing we had was bow + dodge + double take + sprint then I could just about chase down a sorc only to fight him out of resources by the time I caught him . That was nerfed in the patch in case you never noticed. Bow dodge and major expedition no longer stack . Just because one skill was unbalanced doesn't mean other skills are.

Strange i´m feeling quite a bit more potent in using cloak + shadow image than i´ve ever felt using bolt escape based on the sheer fact that my enemies are not able to see me and react accordingly.

Also gapclosers. They´re in the same ballpark for countering bolt as using aoe is for cloak (6m range against a class with 65% movementspeed while cloaked - LOL) to counter cloak.

Edit: Ofc i´m arguing from the pov of a magica nb. You can´t take into account stambuilds when balancing a magica ability.

Lettigall wrote: »

show previous quotes

Sneaky-Snurr wrote: »

blur wrote: »

Caltrops is really good for this. I use it constantly as do most stam sorcs (and other classes) to stop NBs.
Steel Tornado has a 12.5m range
Lightning Form works all the time for me and other popular Stam Sorcs like Xael and Fengrush.

Radiant Magelight is a 12m radius against players in Light Armor. You need to factor in Medium Armor bonus and Stealthty (Bosmer / Khajit) bonus. then again, this is a nerf cloak thread so that doesn't matter. 12m for RML, thats huge. At my feet my ass.

These type of threads are really bad and most of you should feel ashamed of yourselves. You don't seem to realize how cringeworthy and embarassing this thread is.

The small group of you looking for a scapegoat (cloak) are absolutely ridiculous. Your argument is that a NB gets away... newsflash, that's the point of the ability. Are you going to cry and whine about heals being able heal after you get cloaked nerfed? Stupid people everywhere...

@blur
I thank you for expressing the point of view of not nerfing any skill. :thumbsup:
To be honest, attempting to reason with the ones wanting to nerf the game is just a waste of time and energy hence why I've stopped responding them as they're impossible to reason with. I've found your arguments to be spot on but somehow they fail to comprehend the points you conveyed. You can check out my previous replies to those people in this thread and they come nowhere close to answering my simple questions because they simply don't have one. Most of their arguments are derailed from the essence of the debate and proves to be nonsensical, narrow-scoped and somewhat trivial.

They seem to be extremely rigid as they don't consider how the nerf could affect the class as a whole in regards to a stam and magicka builds which is already restrictive due to the nature that class abilities only have 3 skills scaled off of stam but they leave out stam users' concerns on that. The simple question I asked was something along the lines of 'What's left for NB stam users in terms of utilising class abilities since there are only a mere 3 class abilities that scale off of stamina in the whole class' and without any surprises, they failed to answer that question and proceeded with a quick change of topic.

You described problem effecting every stamina build- classes have only few stamina morphs! It's not NB problem alone, Temps have 3 class stamina morphs, DKs 2 morphs and sorcs(about them maybe I'm wrong) 2 morphs. Stop acting like special snowflake!

But magicka sorc, DKs and Templars are waaaaaaaay stronger that magicka NBs. Magicka NB is strong only when comming from stealth (and the only class burst dmg non ulti they have is Concealed weapon). No cloak, no magicka NBs

edit: I meant DPS magicka NBs. Healers and tanks will be there anyway