Cloak Needs A Nerf

Joy_Division

Devotion wrote: »

This thread is laughable

@ZOS_GinaBruno

Be careful what you listen to, don't confuse bad players with legit concerns. So much misinformation in the many threads about cloak.

The guy saying he pvped 3 character to high ranks but never once saw flare work. IT WORKS! I'm living proof, it works and I couldn't do a single thing about it, I just rolled over and died. The other counters work too, just look at the pvpers who have 0 issues with magicka nightblades.

If you Nerf the skill then you need to make it work reliably, currently I don't have a legit way to know if I cloak that it will work for duration intended. I can waste 2-3-4 cloaks trying to actually cloak to no avail.

I'm the guy. I'm sure it does. I said I never seen it work (i.e., someone actually use it to reveal a stealthed player). I also said it was too expensive (it more expensive than all my class skills), takes too long to attain (Support rank 7), does nothing except its narrow function (unlike say caltrops), and questioned whether or not it actually reveals cloaked NBs (the skill specifically says stealthed players, which is a different condition than invisible).

I also said I don't think cloak should be nerfed

Hydrocodone

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hi everyone, thanks for all your feedback. We are looking at several options to limit the number of times Shadow Cloak can be cast in a row. However, unlike Bolt Escape, there are multiple ways of countering Shadow Cloak so we want to be very careful with any change we ultimately make. One of the possibilities we're exploring is reducing your Magicka regeneration while Shadow Cloak is active.

Any change we make will be in a future update, though we don't have a solid time frame at this time.

Bolt escape had many counters and I'll name 4 from a stam DKs POV. Shielded Assault, Take Flight, Critical Rush and Obsidian Shard. Yes it was a pain when they'd streak back and forth unless you held block you would be stunned. And these are skills I had on my bar since launch.

I'm not sure but at 1 time DOTs were supposed keep a NB from Cloaking. So I put Brawler on my bar and it doesn't help a bit. I use v15 detection pots as well. So my choices are A. Gimp my Character against every player that is not a cloak spammer or B. Make sure this thread doesn't die.

Cloak is the best escape in the game. Cloak works well as a CC because unless you want to be hit with an unmitigated heavy attack or WB your forced to hold block. So NB gets 1st attack unmitigated by block from stealth with its dmg buff. NB speed while cloaked makes detection pots worthless. Dots have no effect. To top it of they can repeatedly stun you from cloak with A high DPS skill.

Master_Kas

Hydrocodone wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hi everyone, thanks for all your feedback. We are looking at several options to limit the number of times Shadow Cloak can be cast in a row. However, unlike Bolt Escape, there are multiple ways of countering Shadow Cloak so we want to be very careful with any change we ultimately make. One of the possibilities we're exploring is reducing your Magicka regeneration while Shadow Cloak is active.

Any change we make will be in a future update, though we don't have a solid time frame at this time.

Bolt escape had many counters and I'll name 4 from a stam DKs POV. Shielded Assault, Take Flight, Critical Rush and Obsidian Shard. Yes it was a pain when they'd streak back and forth unless you held block you would be stunned. And these are skills I had on my bar since launch.

I'm not sure but at 1 time DOTs were supposed keep a NB from Cloaking. So I put Brawler on my bar and it doesn't help a bit. I use v15 detection pots as well. So my choices are A. Gimp my Character against every player that is not a cloak spammer or B. Make sure this thread doesn't die.

Cloak is the best escape in the game. Cloak works well as a CC because unless you want to be hit with an unmitigated heavy attack or WB your forced to hold block. So NB gets 1st attack unmitigated by block from stealth with its dmg buff. NB speed while cloaked makes detection pots worthless. Dots have no effect. To top it of they can repeatedly stun you from cloak with A high DPS skill.

Lol. Clearly you haven't played nightblade enough to know how easy people can make it useless. But then again, you are probably one of those who don't want to use det pots / RML / aoe because they all suck vs cloak ? Yea right


Fellow nightblades, brace yourselfs, the nerf is coming so grab your shieldbreaker and weighted bow

Hydrocodone

I would never lower myself to rolling a NB. @Gina when you do nerf cloak please fix Earthen Heart so that it gives the minor brutality buff. Thx in advance.

kadar

sabresandiego_ESO wrote: »

Yonkit wrote: »

Detect Potions, Radiant Magelight, Any form of AoE, Caltrops, Revealing Flare, Piercing Mark, NPCs, Roaming Bosses, Charge Attacks. It's your fault for not using the counters available, don't come to the forums and complain about an issue that only affects lazy individuals.

I'm a nightblade. I have piercing mark. Cloak is overpowered unless you have piercing mark. Just because its my class I won't be biased, facts are facts. My class is slightly overpowered in certain scenarios and needs some fixes.

lolololol. With my NB, I don't ever slot mark. I have no problem whatsoever killing cloak spamming nightblades. I have zero AOE attacks (besides fear) on either bar. I don't run Radiant Magelight.

The duration of ONE detect pot and basic situational awareness are more than enough to kill the vast majority of cloak-ers.

ToRelax

The_Outsider wrote: »

sabresandiego_ESO wrote: »

Yonkit wrote: »

Detect Potions, Radiant Magelight, Any form of AoE, Caltrops, Revealing Flare, Piercing Mark, NPCs, Roaming Bosses, Charge Attacks. It's your fault for not using the counters available, don't come to the forums and complain about an issue that only affects lazy individuals.

I'm a nightblade. I have piercing mark. Cloak is overpowered unless you have piercing mark. Just because its my class I won't be biased, facts are facts. My class is slightly overpowered in certain scenarios and needs some fixes.

lolololol. With my NB, I don't ever slot mark. I have no problem whatsoever killing cloak spamming nightblades. I have zero AOE attacks (besides fear) on either bar. I don't run Radiant Magelight.

The duration of ONE detect pot and basic situational awareness are more than enough to kill the vast majority of cloak-ers.

I'd hope everyone seriously discussing balance issues on the forums would be able to kill the vast majority of players. Because the majority doesn't really seem to have much of a clue about game mechanics anyway.

Domander

Derra wrote: »

Domander wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Domander wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

blur wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

PainfulFAFA wrote: »

tennotsukai87 wrote: »

People keep saying use AoEs and stealth detect potions. I use these options, but with AoEs I can never guess where the NB has fled off to. Once I use that one AoE and miss, he or she is long gone. Just fyi, I'm using lightning flood. Stealth detect is an option that I've used a few times; though, when I do have a potion to use and utilize the detect potion that NB can run so fast in SC that I may or may not catch him in time.

As an aside, I do think NBs lack survivability in terms of class abilities, but I don't feel like SC should be spammable. Infinite Focused Aim -> SC can really bug a person without ever the chance to find them. Perhaps, ZOS can do a little nerf while giving a slight buff to another skill to help with survivability. I will agree that NB is pretty damn squishy.

thats your problem.

Lightning flood is imo a small range aoe.
Try using caltrops, steel tornado, bombard, lightning form, encase -_-, runes -_-, mines -__-,
impulse, mage light u.u

Seriously cloak doesnt need a nerf (i play a stam sorc).
Aspect of terror (fear) is what needs the nerfing!!!

caltrops - very expensive stamina cost, perfect way to line yourself up for being feared, again
steel tornado - pbaoe that does have a decent range, but if the nb is smart they'll cloak between your attacks and run a direction so that your next attack will miss
bombard - decent range and nice rood/snare, only real weakness is its a cone, so the closer you are to the nb the less they have to move to escape
lightning form - like steel tornado, but without having to spam it, nb's can do exactly the same thing to avoid you
encase like bombard, but doesn't damage and in my own experience is hit or miss in keeping them pinned
runes - requires you to either see the target or be attacked, decent if the nb hits you with a dot, but otherwise kinda meh at that
mines - really?
impulse - same as steel tornado, but less aoe, the dot can help but most nb's don't worry about dots
mage light - have you seen its effective aoe? Seems like it begins and ends on your own characters feet for how much range it has

Caltrops is really good for this. I use it constantly as do most stam sorcs (and other classes) to stop NBs.
Steel Tornado has a 12.5m range
Lightning Form works all the time for me and other popular Stam Sorcs like Xael and Fengrush.

Radiant Magelight is a 12m radius against players in Light Armor. You need to factor in Medium Armor bonus and Stealthty (Bosmer / Khajit) bonus. then again, this is a nerf cloak thread so that doesn't matter. 12m for RML, thats huge. At my feet my ass.



These type of threads are really bad and most of you should feel ashamed of yourselves. You don't seem to realize how cringeworthy and embarassing this thread is.

The small group of you looking for a scapegoat (cloak) are absolutely ridiculous. Your argument is that a NB gets away... newsflash, that's the point of the ability. Are you going to cry and whine about heals being able heal after you get cloaked nerfed? Stupid people everywhere...

I would express my condolences but since half of the people in this topic now defending nightblades have been arguing against sorcerers who made the same arguments with respect to bolt escape all i can do is laugh at this topic.
You had it coming.
Now the impending nerf gives me a warm feeling and makes me sleep well at night. Just try to view it as karma (because that´s essentially what it is - when they gutted sorcs abilities to get away it was clear that they would do so for every ability enabling someone to get away sooner or later. In the end the forumcryblades are responsible themselves).

Listen to this ZOS, attitudes like this are the real problem.

Nope not at all. It started with nerfs to bolt escape. Now cloak has to follow for the sake of Balance. You can´t nerf one ability without touching the other. Essentially the argument to not nerf cloak are the same to not nerf bolt escape.
Either you agree that bolt escape nerfs were not warranted and should be reverted or bolt escape was indeed op and the same holds true for cloak then.

Edit: Well now that i think about it - actually attitudes like this are the real problem. The funny thing is with this attidute i´m only doing a mimicry of what happened in all the nerf sorc topics by the people now defending their beloved cloak.
Must be shabby when the mirror is held up to you.

The 2 abilities aren't even comparable, but here is what I wanted to happen with bolt escape.

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/179126/immobilize-should-prevent-bolt-escape/p1

as you can see, there are many many sorcs putting the idea down, very nasty people. This would of been a lot better than what we got.

I'm glad you see the problem.

Haha. Immobilize should prevent bolt escape. I remember that. How about aoe prevents cloak for 4 seconds if not purged then and we don´t nerf the ability as is?

Honestly, it was one of the worst ideas i´ve ever read on these forums. It would be a thousand times worse than what we have (but atleast you partly got what you wanted bc you can now only teleport in the direction you´re facing while immobilized).

Edit: Why was it a bad idea? For one that immobilize are spammable (some even at 28m range) while also not being accessible for every class. Templar want to fight a sorc? Better get a bow or go home bud. Also the immobilize duration (atleast for some) would have been far too long considering rolldodges were kinda limited for magica builds back then and are even more so nowadays.
Secondly everyone with a charge already has an immobilize that prevents bolt escape bc for the duration of any gapcloser in the game you´re rooted and silenced.

Ever try to cloak in caltrops? I'd say aoe already prevents cloak.

It was a great idea, it gave bolt escape a true counter. A sorc would need to dodge roll or purge to counter the immobilize, if they wanted to bolt escape. If a sorc roots and then bolt escapes, most of those gap closers are disabled. Immobilize prevents many gap closers and the (root and silence) from some gap closers is afaik a mechanic to keep you from moving while the animation completes.

As far as templars? How the hell is that any different from now? Oh and some at 28m? You mean the one 1.5 second slow moving projectile that roots for 1.5 seconds and is absorbed by BoL?

But oh well, enjoy.

Domander

Derra wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Junglejim82 wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Junglejim82 wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

blur wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

PainfulFAFA wrote: »

tennotsukai87 wrote: »

People keep saying use AoEs and stealth detect potions. I use these options, but with AoEs I can never guess where the NB has fled off to. Once I use that one AoE and miss, he or she is long gone. Just fyi, I'm using lightning flood. Stealth detect is an option that I've used a few times; though, when I do have a potion to use and utilize the detect potion that NB can run so fast in SC that I may or may not catch him in time.

As an aside, I do think NBs lack survivability in terms of class abilities, but I don't feel like SC should be spammable. Infinite Focused Aim -> SC can really bug a person without ever the chance to find them. Perhaps, ZOS can do a little nerf while giving a slight buff to another skill to help with survivability. I will agree that NB is pretty damn squishy.

thats your problem.

Lightning flood is imo a small range aoe.
Try using caltrops, steel tornado, bombard, lightning form, encase -_-, runes -_-, mines -__-,
impulse, mage light u.u

Seriously cloak doesnt need a nerf (i play a stam sorc).
Aspect of terror (fear) is what needs the nerfing!!!

caltrops - very expensive stamina cost, perfect way to line yourself up for being feared, again
steel tornado - pbaoe that does have a decent range, but if the nb is smart they'll cloak between your attacks and run a direction so that your next attack will miss
bombard - decent range and nice rood/snare, only real weakness is its a cone, so the closer you are to the nb the less they have to move to escape
lightning form - like steel tornado, but without having to spam it, nb's can do exactly the same thing to avoid you
encase like bombard, but doesn't damage and in my own experience is hit or miss in keeping them pinned
runes - requires you to either see the target or be attacked, decent if the nb hits you with a dot, but otherwise kinda meh at that
mines - really?
impulse - same as steel tornado, but less aoe, the dot can help but most nb's don't worry about dots
mage light - have you seen its effective aoe? Seems like it begins and ends on your own characters feet for how much range it has

Caltrops is really good for this. I use it constantly as do most stam sorcs (and other classes) to stop NBs.
Steel Tornado has a 12.5m range
Lightning Form works all the time for me and other popular Stam Sorcs like Xael and Fengrush.

Radiant Magelight is a 12m radius against players in Light Armor. You need to factor in Medium Armor bonus and Stealthty (Bosmer / Khajit) bonus. then again, this is a nerf cloak thread so that doesn't matter. 12m for RML, thats huge. At my feet my ass.



These type of threads are really bad and most of you should feel ashamed of yourselves. You don't seem to realize how cringeworthy and embarassing this thread is.

The small group of you looking for a scapegoat (cloak) are absolutely ridiculous. Your argument is that a NB gets away... newsflash, that's the point of the ability. Are you going to cry and whine about heals being able heal after you get cloaked nerfed? Stupid people everywhere...

I would express my condolences but since half of the people in this topic now defending nightblades have been arguing against sorcerers who made the same arguments with respect to bolt escape all i can do is laugh at this topic.
You had it coming.
Now the impending nerf gives me a warm feeling and makes me sleep well at night. Just try to view it as karma (because that´s essentially what it is - when they gutted sorcs abilities to get away it was clear that they would do so for every ability enabling someone to get away sooner or later. In the end the forumcryblades are responsible themselves).

This is exactly the problem . Sorc gets nerfed so I'm gonna do my best to get NBS nerfed now. Seen it on every gaming forum ever class wars. It's all b.s.

Nope it´s not ***. That´s the problem. If you start nerfing one ability for one class you can´t just stop halfway through and leave similar options intact for other classes. That´s the problem with nerfing instead of buffing counters.

I´m currently getting my NB ready and pvping on it solo (magica based) and honestly i´m not concerned at all for cloak nerfs. I´ve adapted on my main and i will adapt on this char too.

If you're comparing bolt escape and cloak it's apples and oranges . You bolt and cloaking isn't gonna make me keep up as you disappear over the horizon. You attack me , I cloak and I'm still there albeit invisible. However use a counter and I'm there for all to see right infront of you . Nah the comparable thing we had was bow + dodge + double take + sprint then I could just about chase down a sorc only to fight him out of resources by the time I caught him . That was nerfed in the patch in case you never noticed. Bow dodge and major expedition no longer stack . Just because one skill was unbalanced doesn't mean other skills are.

Strange i´m feeling quite a bit more potent in using cloak + shadow image than i´ve ever felt using bolt escape based on the sheer fact that my enemies are not able to see me and react accordingly.

Also gapclosers. They´re in the same ballpark for countering bolt as using aoe is for cloak (6m range against a class with 65% movementspeed while cloaked - LOL) to counter cloak.

Edit: Ofc i´m arguing from the pov of a magica nb. You can´t take into account stambuilds when balancing a magica ability.

Lettigall wrote: »

Sneaky-Snurr wrote: »

blur wrote: »

Caltrops is really good for this. I use it constantly as do most stam sorcs (and other classes) to stop NBs.
Steel Tornado has a 12.5m range
Lightning Form works all the time for me and other popular Stam Sorcs like Xael and Fengrush.

Radiant Magelight is a 12m radius against players in Light Armor. You need to factor in Medium Armor bonus and Stealthty (Bosmer / Khajit) bonus. then again, this is a nerf cloak thread so that doesn't matter. 12m for RML, thats huge. At my feet my ass.



These type of threads are really bad and most of you should feel ashamed of yourselves. You don't seem to realize how cringeworthy and embarassing this thread is.

The small group of you looking for a scapegoat (cloak) are absolutely ridiculous. Your argument is that a NB gets away... newsflash, that's the point of the ability. Are you going to cry and whine about heals being able heal after you get cloaked nerfed? Stupid people everywhere...

@blur
I thank you for expressing the point of view of not nerfing any skill. :thumbsup:
To be honest, attempting to reason with the ones wanting to nerf the game is just a waste of time and energy hence why I've stopped responding them as they're impossible to reason with. I've found your arguments to be spot on but somehow they fail to comprehend the points you conveyed. You can check out my previous replies to those people in this thread and they come nowhere close to answering my simple questions because they simply don't have one. Most of their arguments are derailed from the essence of the debate and proves to be nonsensical, narrow-scoped and somewhat trivial.

They seem to be extremely rigid as they don't consider how the nerf could affect the class as a whole in regards to a stam and magicka builds which is already restrictive due to the nature that class abilities only have 3 skills scaled off of stam but they leave out stam users' concerns on that. The simple question I asked was something along the lines of 'What's left for NB stam users in terms of utilising class abilities since there are only a mere 3 class abilities that scale off of stamina in the whole class' and without any surprises, they failed to answer that question and proceeded with a quick change of topic.

You described problem effecting every stamina build- classes have only few stamina morphs! It's not NB problem alone, Temps have 3 class stamina morphs, DKs 2 morphs and sorcs(about them maybe I'm wrong) 2 morphs. Stop acting like special snowflake!

But magicka sorc, DKs and Templars are waaaaaaaay stronger that magicka NBs. Magicka NB is strong only when comming from stealth (and the only class burst dmg non ulti they have is Concealed weapon). No cloak, no magicka NBs

edit: I meant DPS magicka NBs. Healers and tanks will be there anyway

WHAT?

Magica NB is insanely good. I have a tooltip of 8k for funnel health (an ability that´s also healing me and costs less than half of any other anytime range dmg) and ~16k for cripple. Magica NB is currently the highest pressure range build in the game (pressure meaning high dps not burst - though i´ve hit for 19.2k with assassins will).

Both being projectiles, and blocking cripple makes it do absolutely nothing.

kadar

ToRelax wrote: »

The_Outsider wrote: »

sabresandiego_ESO wrote: »

Yonkit wrote: »

Detect Potions, Radiant Magelight, Any form of AoE, Caltrops, Revealing Flare, Piercing Mark, NPCs, Roaming Bosses, Charge Attacks. It's your fault for not using the counters available, don't come to the forums and complain about an issue that only affects lazy individuals.

I'm a nightblade. I have piercing mark. Cloak is overpowered unless you have piercing mark. Just because its my class I won't be biased, facts are facts. My class is slightly overpowered in certain scenarios and needs some fixes.

lolololol. With my NB, I don't ever slot mark. I have no problem whatsoever killing cloak spamming nightblades. I have zero AOE attacks (besides fear) on either bar. I don't run Radiant Magelight.

The duration of ONE detect pot and basic situational awareness are more than enough to kill the vast majority of cloak-ers.

I'd hope everyone seriously discussing balance issues on the forums would be able to kill the vast majority of players. Because the majority doesn't really seem to have much of a clue about game mechanics anyway.

Thing is, I don't know that I could kill the majority of players out there. I'm won't come to the forums and proclaim my great skill, and because I'm a super good player everyone should listen to me (no one ever does this right?).

The point I was trying to make, is that I've been having much success countering cloak spamming NBs-- noobs and more obviously skilled players alike, with solely one of the many counters available. I don't even slot mark cause I don't want to give up a slot on a bar.

I'm a self-proclaimed, middle of the road player as far an individual skill goes. And I'm having no problem killing NBs with detect pots alone. I think that speaks to the general strength of the Dark Cloak skill.

This is especially important now that ZOS has announced potential nerf.

ToRelax

The_Outsider wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

The_Outsider wrote: »

sabresandiego_ESO wrote: »

Yonkit wrote: »

Detect Potions, Radiant Magelight, Any form of AoE, Caltrops, Revealing Flare, Piercing Mark, NPCs, Roaming Bosses, Charge Attacks. It's your fault for not using the counters available, don't come to the forums and complain about an issue that only affects lazy individuals.

I'm a nightblade. I have piercing mark. Cloak is overpowered unless you have piercing mark. Just because its my class I won't be biased, facts are facts. My class is slightly overpowered in certain scenarios and needs some fixes.

lolololol. With my NB, I don't ever slot mark. I have no problem whatsoever killing cloak spamming nightblades. I have zero AOE attacks (besides fear) on either bar. I don't run Radiant Magelight.

The duration of ONE detect pot and basic situational awareness are more than enough to kill the vast majority of cloak-ers.

I'd hope everyone seriously discussing balance issues on the forums would be able to kill the vast majority of players. Because the majority doesn't really seem to have much of a clue about game mechanics anyway.

Thing is, I don't know that I could kill the majority of players out there. I'm won't come to the forums and proclaim my great skill, and because I'm a super good player everyone should listen to me (no one ever does this right?).

The point I was trying to make, is that I've been having much success countering cloak spamming NBs-- noobs and more obviously skilled players alike, with solely one of the many counters available. I don't even slot mark cause I don't want to give up a slot on a bar.

I'm a self-proclaimed, middle of the road player as far an individual skill goes. And I'm having no problem killing NBs with detect pots alone. I think that speaks to the general strength of the Dark Cloak skill.

This is especially important now that ZOS has announced potential nerf.

And yet the good NBs can handle detect pots from what I hear, would just like to have a visual clue that and who is using it to deal with it in time. People also ask for making them work only for the player who used the potion, as it is (or should be with mark), though that would still allow them to pull the NB out of Cloak with ease. Especially now, that you can't force incoming attacks to miss while being affected by the potion.

Fear isn't a bad skill to pull a NB out of Cloak once if you react fast enough, but since you also hand out cc immunity it only works once every 8 seconds, so if you don't have another counter it's literally impossible to get a NB if it cloaks right again.

kadar

ToRelax wrote: »

The_Outsider wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

The_Outsider wrote: »

sabresandiego_ESO wrote: »

Yonkit wrote: »

Detect Potions, Radiant Magelight, Any form of AoE, Caltrops, Revealing Flare, Piercing Mark, NPCs, Roaming Bosses, Charge Attacks. It's your fault for not using the counters available, don't come to the forums and complain about an issue that only affects lazy individuals.

I'm a nightblade. I have piercing mark. Cloak is overpowered unless you have piercing mark. Just because its my class I won't be biased, facts are facts. My class is slightly overpowered in certain scenarios and needs some fixes.

lolololol. With my NB, I don't ever slot mark. I have no problem whatsoever killing cloak spamming nightblades. I have zero AOE attacks (besides fear) on either bar. I don't run Radiant Magelight.

The duration of ONE detect pot and basic situational awareness are more than enough to kill the vast majority of cloak-ers.

I'd hope everyone seriously discussing balance issues on the forums would be able to kill the vast majority of players. Because the majority doesn't really seem to have much of a clue about game mechanics anyway.

Thing is, I don't know that I could kill the majority of players out there. I'm won't come to the forums and proclaim my great skill, and because I'm a super good player everyone should listen to me (no one ever does this right?).

The point I was trying to make, is that I've been having much success countering cloak spamming NBs-- noobs and more obviously skilled players alike, with solely one of the many counters available. I don't even slot mark cause I don't want to give up a slot on a bar.

I'm a self-proclaimed, middle of the road player as far an individual skill goes. And I'm having no problem killing NBs with detect pots alone. I think that speaks to the general strength of the Dark Cloak skill.

This is especially important now that ZOS has announced potential nerf.

And yet the good NBs can handle detect pots from what I hear, would just like to have a visual clue that and who is using it to deal with it in time. People also ask for making them work only for the player who used the potion, as it is (or should be with mark), though that would still allow them to pull the NB out of Cloak with ease. Especially now, that you can't force incoming attacks to miss while being affected by the potion.

Fear isn't a bad skill to pull a NB out of Cloak once if you react fast enough, but since you also hand out cc immunity it only works once every 8 seconds, so if you don't have another counter it's literally impossible to get a NB if it cloaks right again.

Yeah fear usually works pretty well if the pot alone isn't cutting it. Purely speaking of a fleeing Nighblade, I try to Ambush (usually no dmg cause cloak), roll dodge forward to catch up and then fear. A lot of times, Ambush directly into fear doesn't work cause they are moving so fast they escape my fear radius.

As a stam NB, I kill a lot of cloaking NBs. Some get away (which in my book is a win of sorts, since they failed to gank me). I also get killed about as often as I escape. I just fail to see the severe "OP-ness" of the skill. Especially considering counters.

Is listing all the of the crazy or OP things the top 1% of players can do with a given skill reason to nerf said skill? What about the 99% of players who are sub-Demigod class? If so-- let's make sure the skill is still viable for the rest of us down here on earth!

Derra

Domander wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Junglejim82 wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Junglejim82 wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

blur wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

PainfulFAFA wrote: »

tennotsukai87 wrote: »

People keep saying use AoEs and stealth detect potions. I use these options, but with AoEs I can never guess where the NB has fled off to. Once I use that one AoE and miss, he or she is long gone. Just fyi, I'm using lightning flood. Stealth detect is an option that I've used a few times; though, when I do have a potion to use and utilize the detect potion that NB can run so fast in SC that I may or may not catch him in time.

As an aside, I do think NBs lack survivability in terms of class abilities, but I don't feel like SC should be spammable. Infinite Focused Aim -> SC can really bug a person without ever the chance to find them. Perhaps, ZOS can do a little nerf while giving a slight buff to another skill to help with survivability. I will agree that NB is pretty damn squishy.

thats your problem.

Lightning flood is imo a small range aoe.
Try using caltrops, steel tornado, bombard, lightning form, encase -_-, runes -_-, mines -__-,
impulse, mage light u.u

Seriously cloak doesnt need a nerf (i play a stam sorc).
Aspect of terror (fear) is what needs the nerfing!!!

caltrops - very expensive stamina cost, perfect way to line yourself up for being feared, again
steel tornado - pbaoe that does have a decent range, but if the nb is smart they'll cloak between your attacks and run a direction so that your next attack will miss
bombard - decent range and nice rood/snare, only real weakness is its a cone, so the closer you are to the nb the less they have to move to escape
lightning form - like steel tornado, but without having to spam it, nb's can do exactly the same thing to avoid you
encase like bombard, but doesn't damage and in my own experience is hit or miss in keeping them pinned
runes - requires you to either see the target or be attacked, decent if the nb hits you with a dot, but otherwise kinda meh at that
mines - really?
impulse - same as steel tornado, but less aoe, the dot can help but most nb's don't worry about dots
mage light - have you seen its effective aoe? Seems like it begins and ends on your own characters feet for how much range it has

Caltrops is really good for this. I use it constantly as do most stam sorcs (and other classes) to stop NBs.
Steel Tornado has a 12.5m range
Lightning Form works all the time for me and other popular Stam Sorcs like Xael and Fengrush.

Radiant Magelight is a 12m radius against players in Light Armor. You need to factor in Medium Armor bonus and Stealthty (Bosmer / Khajit) bonus. then again, this is a nerf cloak thread so that doesn't matter. 12m for RML, thats huge. At my feet my ass.



These type of threads are really bad and most of you should feel ashamed of yourselves. You don't seem to realize how cringeworthy and embarassing this thread is.

The small group of you looking for a scapegoat (cloak) are absolutely ridiculous. Your argument is that a NB gets away... newsflash, that's the point of the ability. Are you going to cry and whine about heals being able heal after you get cloaked nerfed? Stupid people everywhere...

I would express my condolences but since half of the people in this topic now defending nightblades have been arguing against sorcerers who made the same arguments with respect to bolt escape all i can do is laugh at this topic.
You had it coming.
Now the impending nerf gives me a warm feeling and makes me sleep well at night. Just try to view it as karma (because that´s essentially what it is - when they gutted sorcs abilities to get away it was clear that they would do so for every ability enabling someone to get away sooner or later. In the end the forumcryblades are responsible themselves).

This is exactly the problem . Sorc gets nerfed so I'm gonna do my best to get NBS nerfed now. Seen it on every gaming forum ever class wars. It's all b.s.

Nope it´s not ***. That´s the problem. If you start nerfing one ability for one class you can´t just stop halfway through and leave similar options intact for other classes. That´s the problem with nerfing instead of buffing counters.

I´m currently getting my NB ready and pvping on it solo (magica based) and honestly i´m not concerned at all for cloak nerfs. I´ve adapted on my main and i will adapt on this char too.

If you're comparing bolt escape and cloak it's apples and oranges . You bolt and cloaking isn't gonna make me keep up as you disappear over the horizon. You attack me , I cloak and I'm still there albeit invisible. However use a counter and I'm there for all to see right infront of you . Nah the comparable thing we had was bow + dodge + double take + sprint then I could just about chase down a sorc only to fight him out of resources by the time I caught him . That was nerfed in the patch in case you never noticed. Bow dodge and major expedition no longer stack . Just because one skill was unbalanced doesn't mean other skills are.

Strange i´m feeling quite a bit more potent in using cloak + shadow image than i´ve ever felt using bolt escape based on the sheer fact that my enemies are not able to see me and react accordingly.

Also gapclosers. They´re in the same ballpark for countering bolt as using aoe is for cloak (6m range against a class with 65% movementspeed while cloaked - LOL) to counter cloak.

Edit: Ofc i´m arguing from the pov of a magica nb. You can´t take into account stambuilds when balancing a magica ability.

Lettigall wrote: »

Sneaky-Snurr wrote: »

blur wrote: »

Caltrops is really good for this. I use it constantly as do most stam sorcs (and other classes) to stop NBs.
Steel Tornado has a 12.5m range
Lightning Form works all the time for me and other popular Stam Sorcs like Xael and Fengrush.

Radiant Magelight is a 12m radius against players in Light Armor. You need to factor in Medium Armor bonus and Stealthty (Bosmer / Khajit) bonus. then again, this is a nerf cloak thread so that doesn't matter. 12m for RML, thats huge. At my feet my ass.



These type of threads are really bad and most of you should feel ashamed of yourselves. You don't seem to realize how cringeworthy and embarassing this thread is.

The small group of you looking for a scapegoat (cloak) are absolutely ridiculous. Your argument is that a NB gets away... newsflash, that's the point of the ability. Are you going to cry and whine about heals being able heal after you get cloaked nerfed? Stupid people everywhere...

@blur
I thank you for expressing the point of view of not nerfing any skill. :thumbsup:
To be honest, attempting to reason with the ones wanting to nerf the game is just a waste of time and energy hence why I've stopped responding them as they're impossible to reason with. I've found your arguments to be spot on but somehow they fail to comprehend the points you conveyed. You can check out my previous replies to those people in this thread and they come nowhere close to answering my simple questions because they simply don't have one. Most of their arguments are derailed from the essence of the debate and proves to be nonsensical, narrow-scoped and somewhat trivial.

They seem to be extremely rigid as they don't consider how the nerf could affect the class as a whole in regards to a stam and magicka builds which is already restrictive due to the nature that class abilities only have 3 skills scaled off of stam but they leave out stam users' concerns on that. The simple question I asked was something along the lines of 'What's left for NB stam users in terms of utilising class abilities since there are only a mere 3 class abilities that scale off of stamina in the whole class' and without any surprises, they failed to answer that question and proceeded with a quick change of topic.

You described problem effecting every stamina build- classes have only few stamina morphs! It's not NB problem alone, Temps have 3 class stamina morphs, DKs 2 morphs and sorcs(about them maybe I'm wrong) 2 morphs. Stop acting like special snowflake!

But magicka sorc, DKs and Templars are waaaaaaaay stronger that magicka NBs. Magicka NB is strong only when comming from stealth (and the only class burst dmg non ulti they have is Concealed weapon). No cloak, no magicka NBs

edit: I meant DPS magicka NBs. Healers and tanks will be there anyway

WHAT?

Magica NB is insanely good. I have a tooltip of 8k for funnel health (an ability that´s also healing me and costs less than half of any other anytime range dmg) and ~16k for cripple. Magica NB is currently the highest pressure range build in the game (pressure meaning high dps not burst - though i´ve hit for 19.2k with assassins will).

Both being projectiles, and blocking cripple makes it do absolutely nothing.

With what builds being able to permablock? I´ve not met one (that would have been in any other form inconvenient apart from being able to block) in pvp so far.
Maybe i´m not having as much trouble using projectiles bc i´ve been used to play projectile based builds against infinite reflect back in the day.

Also nice that you point out one of the two aoes that actually ARE countering cloak to some extend (not denying that - shadow image saves the day here anyway) - both of them happen to be stamina based still and are worth jack sh*t when talking about balance as long there are no skills of equivalent power for magica based builds (if there were i´d be arguing vigorously against nerfing cloak in any form).

The_Outsider wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

The_Outsider wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

The_Outsider wrote: »

sabresandiego_ESO wrote: »

Yonkit wrote: »

Detect Potions, Radiant Magelight, Any form of AoE, Caltrops, Revealing Flare, Piercing Mark, NPCs, Roaming Bosses, Charge Attacks. It's your fault for not using the counters available, don't come to the forums and complain about an issue that only affects lazy individuals.

I'm a nightblade. I have piercing mark. Cloak is overpowered unless you have piercing mark. Just because its my class I won't be biased, facts are facts. My class is slightly overpowered in certain scenarios and needs some fixes.

lolololol. With my NB, I don't ever slot mark. I have no problem whatsoever killing cloak spamming nightblades. I have zero AOE attacks (besides fear) on either bar. I don't run Radiant Magelight.

The duration of ONE detect pot and basic situational awareness are more than enough to kill the vast majority of cloak-ers.

I'd hope everyone seriously discussing balance issues on the forums would be able to kill the vast majority of players. Because the majority doesn't really seem to have much of a clue about game mechanics anyway.

Thing is, I don't know that I could kill the majority of players out there. I'm won't come to the forums and proclaim my great skill, and because I'm a super good player everyone should listen to me (no one ever does this right?).

The point I was trying to make, is that I've been having much success countering cloak spamming NBs-- noobs and more obviously skilled players alike, with solely one of the many counters available. I don't even slot mark cause I don't want to give up a slot on a bar.

I'm a self-proclaimed, middle of the road player as far an individual skill goes. And I'm having no problem killing NBs with detect pots alone. I think that speaks to the general strength of the Dark Cloak skill.

This is especially important now that ZOS has announced potential nerf.

And yet the good NBs can handle detect pots from what I hear, would just like to have a visual clue that and who is using it to deal with it in time. People also ask for making them work only for the player who used the potion, as it is (or should be with mark), though that would still allow them to pull the NB out of Cloak with ease. Especially now, that you can't force incoming attacks to miss while being affected by the potion.

Fear isn't a bad skill to pull a NB out of Cloak once if you react fast enough, but since you also hand out cc immunity it only works once every 8 seconds, so if you don't have another counter it's literally impossible to get a NB if it cloaks right again.

Yeah fear usually works pretty well if the pot alone isn't cutting it. Purely speaking of a fleeing Nighblade, I try to Ambush (usually no dmg cause cloak), roll dodge forward to catch up and then fear. A lot of times, Ambush directly into fear doesn't work cause they are moving so fast they escape my fear radius.

As a stam NB, I kill a lot of cloaking NBs. Some get away (which in my book is a win of sorts, since they failed to gank me). I also get killed about as often as I escape. I just fail to see the severe "OP-ness" of the skill. Especially considering counters.

Is listing all the of the crazy or OP things the top 1% of players can do with a given skill reason to nerf said skill? What about the 99% of players who are sub-Demigod class? If so-- let's make sure the skill is still viable for the rest of us down here on earth!

The problem really is cloak on magica NBs (especially if they also run purge). I personally don´t take issues on cloaking stam NBs as long as then don´t run some hybrid builds with insane magica reg or combine it with retreating maneuvers.

Hydrocodone

1st fight I get into this morning is with a Neophyte NB spamming Cloak and rotating that with Fear which still bugs on a FOTM "I win build". He's able to get off 2-4x the attacks on me for every 1 I can. I have no problem with being killed by someone who out plays me or because I made a mistake but this too much. I hope they fix this or the game dies for good anything else is an abomination to fair play.

@Gina Don't be fooled by all the NBs that come in here to derail this thread because they don't want to lose a huge advantage.

ArvenAldmeri

Yonkit wrote: »

Detect Potions, Radiant Magelight, Any form of AoE, Caltrops, Revealing Flare, Piercing Mark, NPCs, Roaming Bosses, Charge Attacks. It's your fault for not using the counters available, don't come to the forums and complain about an issue that only affects lazy individuals.

1. Detect pots were nerfed and are not working at all for me.
2. Not everyone can use radiant magelight (pvp/pve player - using inner light), not everyone has efficient aoe as Caltrops or steel tornado.
3. Again, not everyone has caltrops (not enough high rank)
4. Same as 3.
5. Not everyone is playing a NB...
6. you can dark cloak from NBcs
7. boss can go on you instead of the cloaking NB
8. so who has charge attacks again? not many magicka builds except for templar?
That is all I guess.

Ender1310

Your mad that the stealth class is escaping? Not killing you. Cause I get pissed when I'm killed by insane sorc burst but you are mad that a class is escaping? What are you a serial killer? O noes the nb is getting away. You get points by killing thingsk. Just ugh

Ender1310

Your mad that the stealth class is escaping? Not killing you. Cause I get pissed when I'm killed by insane sorc burst but you are mad that a class is escaping? What are you a serial killer? O noes the nb is getting away. You get points by killing thingsk. Just ugh

ArvenAldmeri

Ender1310 wrote: »

Your mad that the stealth class is escaping? Not killing you. Cause I get pissed when I'm killed by insane sorc burst but you are mad that a class is escaping? What are you a serial killer? O noes the nb is getting away. You get points by killing thingsk. Just ugh

Lol, not that he is escaping, but that he is cloaking forever, then burst so quickly you have no time to hit them before they cloak again. NB dont have any reason to escape unless there is more than one player on him, then he has right to run. 1vs1 I would call him a coward. I have nothing against someone escaping with cloak, I have problem with NB that is cloaking in fight forever even when he is stamina build. (I can not streak forever anymore either, why should a NB cloak forever? - no, not streaking to escape but to do damage/stun)

kadar

The problem really is cloak on magica NBs (especially if they also run purge). I personally don´t take issues on cloaking stam NBs as long as then don´t run some hybrid builds with insane magica reg or combine it with retreating maneuvers.

So it's not even the skill we are talking about anymore? Just one type of NB build using the skill? My poor StamBlade already can't spam cloak. And like you said, its really not hard to chase em down and kill em. Maybe I just haven't run across many super great Magicka NBs but I'm not really scared of their damage at this point. Their sustain yes. Omg, so hard to kill. But I mean the last one I fought, his idea of a good attack was to spam swallow soul...

Hydrocodone wrote: »

1st fight I get into this morning is with a Neophyte NB spamming Cloak and rotating that with Fear which still bugs on a FOTM "I win build". He's able to get off 2-4x the attacks on me for every 1 I can. I have no problem with being killed by someone who out plays me or because I made a mistake but this too much. I hope they fix this or the game dies for good anything else is an abomination to fair play.

@Gina Don't be fooled by all the NBs that come in here to derail this thread because they don't want to lose a huge advantage.

@ZOS_GinaBruno , don't be fooled by all the people who come to the forums and cry out for nerfs when they get killed in PVP. Don't over-nerf my core survival mechanic because people don't like that Magicka NBs can spam it. I already can't.

Junkogen

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hi everyone, thanks for all your feedback. We are looking at several options to limit the number of times Shadow Cloak can be cast in a row. However, unlike Bolt Escape, there are multiple ways of countering Shadow Cloak so we want to be very careful with any change we ultimately make. One of the possibilities we're exploring is reducing your Magicka regeneration while Shadow Cloak is active.

Any change we make will be in a future update, though we don't have a solid time frame at this time.

Why don't you create counters for bolt escape then? Make a skill like magelight that prevents sorcs from bolt escaping.

...or stop listening to these nerf everything folks. Shadow cloak doesn't even work a lot of the time. All you're going to do is make the skill worthless once again.

CP5

Junkogen wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hi everyone, thanks for all your feedback. We are looking at several options to limit the number of times Shadow Cloak can be cast in a row. However, unlike Bolt Escape, there are multiple ways of countering Shadow Cloak so we want to be very careful with any change we ultimately make. One of the possibilities we're exploring is reducing your Magicka regeneration while Shadow Cloak is active.

Any change we make will be in a future update, though we don't have a solid time frame at this time.

Why don't you create counters for bolt escape then? Make a skill like magelight that prevents sorcs from bolt escaping.

...or stop listening to these nerf everything folks. Shadow cloak doesn't even work a lot of the time. All you're going to do is make the skill worthless once again.

Gap closers, hard cc, roots to restrict where the sorc can bolt, speed buffs, all of which come from several sources. Oh, and bolt has gotten how many nerfs? I'm sure if people still feel the skill is op then poor ol nightblades can take a hit from the nerf bat.

Junkogen

CP5 wrote: »

Junkogen wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hi everyone, thanks for all your feedback. We are looking at several options to limit the number of times Shadow Cloak can be cast in a row. However, unlike Bolt Escape, there are multiple ways of countering Shadow Cloak so we want to be very careful with any change we ultimately make. One of the possibilities we're exploring is reducing your Magicka regeneration while Shadow Cloak is active.

Any change we make will be in a future update, though we don't have a solid time frame at this time.

Why don't you create counters for bolt escape then? Make a skill like magelight that prevents sorcs from bolt escaping.

...or stop listening to these nerf everything folks. Shadow cloak doesn't even work a lot of the time. All you're going to do is make the skill worthless once again.

Gap closers, hard cc, roots to restrict where the sorc can bolt, speed buffs, all of which come from several sources. Oh, and bolt has gotten how many nerfs? I'm sure if people still feel the skill is op then poor ol nightblades can take a hit from the nerf bat.

Not one of those things you mentioned completely negates the skill like radiant magelight. Radiant magelight is specifically made to counter NBs. There is nothing specifically designed for bolt escape. Gina said as much. It would be nice to have a skill called Grounding Wire or something which increases criticals and doesn't allow sorcs to bolt away.

CP5

Junkogen wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

Junkogen wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hi everyone, thanks for all your feedback. We are looking at several options to limit the number of times Shadow Cloak can be cast in a row. However, unlike Bolt Escape, there are multiple ways of countering Shadow Cloak so we want to be very careful with any change we ultimately make. One of the possibilities we're exploring is reducing your Magicka regeneration while Shadow Cloak is active.

Any change we make will be in a future update, though we don't have a solid time frame at this time.

Why don't you create counters for bolt escape then? Make a skill like magelight that prevents sorcs from bolt escaping.

...or stop listening to these nerf everything folks. Shadow cloak doesn't even work a lot of the time. All you're going to do is make the skill worthless once again.

Gap closers, hard cc, roots to restrict where the sorc can bolt, speed buffs, all of which come from several sources. Oh, and bolt has gotten how many nerfs? I'm sure if people still feel the skill is op then poor ol nightblades can take a hit from the nerf bat.

Not one of those things you mentioned completely negates the skill like radiant magelight. Radiant magelight is specifically made to counter NBs. There is nothing specifically designed for bolt escape. Gina said as much. It would be nice to have a skill called Grounding Wire or something which increases criticals and doesn't allow sorcs to bolt away.

And as someone who uses radiant magelight on one of their more tanky characters I will say from my experience I need to spam my gap closer to keep a nightblade within range of the light to prevent them from cloaking. If anything peircing mark is the better counter for cloak and that is a nb only skill.

killingspreeb16_ESO

Junkogen wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hi everyone, thanks for all your feedback. We are looking at several options to limit the number of times Shadow Cloak can be cast in a row. However, unlike Bolt Escape, there are multiple ways of countering Shadow Cloak so we want to be very careful with any change we ultimately make. One of the possibilities we're exploring is reducing your Magicka regeneration while Shadow Cloak is active.

Any change we make will be in a future update, though we don't have a solid time frame at this time.

Why don't you create counters for bolt escape then? Make a skill like magelight that prevents sorcs from bolt escaping.

...or stop listening to these nerf everything folks. Shadow cloak doesn't even work a lot of the time. All you're going to do is make the skill worthless once again.

Or a skill like radiant magelight that istantly dispell every shield,that increase my crit and reduce the dmg from stealth.

CP5 wrote: »

Junkogen wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

Junkogen wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hi everyone, thanks for all your feedback. We are looking at several options to limit the number of times Shadow Cloak can be cast in a row. However, unlike Bolt Escape, there are multiple ways of countering Shadow Cloak so we want to be very careful with any change we ultimately make. One of the possibilities we're exploring is reducing your Magicka regeneration while Shadow Cloak is active.

Any change we make will be in a future update, though we don't have a solid time frame at this time.

Why don't you create counters for bolt escape then? Make a skill like magelight that prevents sorcs from bolt escaping.

...or stop listening to these nerf everything folks. Shadow cloak doesn't even work a lot of the time. All you're going to do is make the skill worthless once again.

Gap closers, hard cc, roots to restrict where the sorc can bolt, speed buffs, all of which come from several sources. Oh, and bolt has gotten how many nerfs? I'm sure if people still feel the skill is op then poor ol nightblades can take a hit from the nerf bat.

Not one of those things you mentioned completely negates the skill like radiant magelight. Radiant magelight is specifically made to counter NBs. There is nothing specifically designed for bolt escape. Gina said as much. It would be nice to have a skill called Grounding Wire or something which increases criticals and doesn't allow sorcs to bolt away.

And as someone who uses radiant magelight on one of their more tanky characters I will say from my experience I need to spam my gap closer to keep a nightblade within range of the light to prevent them from cloaking. If anything peircing mark is the better counter for cloak and that is a nb only skill.

Mark is just too stupid,put a mark on the nb watch the nb die

Derra

The_Outsider wrote: »

The problem really is cloak on magica NBs (especially if they also run purge). I personally don´t take issues on cloaking stam NBs as long as then don´t run some hybrid builds with insane magica reg or combine it with retreating maneuvers.

So it's not even the skill we are talking about anymore? Just one type of NB build using the skill? My poor StamBlade already can't spam cloak. And like you said, its really not hard to chase em down and kill em. Maybe I just haven't run across many super great Magicka NBs but I'm not really scared of their damage at this point. Their sustain yes. Omg, so hard to kill. But I mean the last one I fought, his idea of a good attack was to spam swallow soul...

Hydrocodone wrote: »

1st fight I get into this morning is with a Neophyte NB spamming Cloak and rotating that with Fear which still bugs on a FOTM "I win build". He's able to get off 2-4x the attacks on me for every 1 I can. I have no problem with being killed by someone who out plays me or because I made a mistake but this too much. I hope they fix this or the game dies for good anything else is an abomination to fair play.

@Gina Don't be fooled by all the NBs that come in here to derail this thread because they don't want to lose a huge advantage.

@ZOS_GinaBruno , don't be fooled by all the people who come to the forums and cry out for nerfs when they get killed in PVP. Don't over-nerf my core survival mechanic because people don't like that Magicka NBs can spam it. I already can't.

I´ve stated it multiple times. You can´t take into account a suboptimal build when balancing an ability. You have to look at a build tailored to used an ability to it´s maximum potential.

Do you think bolt escape got nerfed because it was a too potent escape tool on a stamina based sorcerer?

kadar

CP5 wrote: »

Junkogen wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hi everyone, thanks for all your feedback. We are looking at several options to limit the number of times Shadow Cloak can be cast in a row. However, unlike Bolt Escape, there are multiple ways of countering Shadow Cloak so we want to be very careful with any change we ultimately make. One of the possibilities we're exploring is reducing your Magicka regeneration while Shadow Cloak is active.

Any change we make will be in a future update, though we don't have a solid time frame at this time.

Why don't you create counters for bolt escape then? Make a skill like magelight that prevents sorcs from bolt escaping.

...or stop listening to these nerf everything folks. Shadow cloak doesn't even work a lot of the time. All you're going to do is make the skill worthless once again.

Gap closers, hard cc, roots to restrict where the sorc can bolt, speed buffs, all of which come from several sources. Oh, and bolt has gotten how many nerfs? I'm sure if people still feel the skill is op then poor ol nightblades can take a hit from the nerf bat.

A gap closer-- is not a viable counter because Bolt Escape stuns anyone who is close. One who gets stunned chasing a BE Sorc obviously CC breaks, and by that time the Sorc has used 2 more BE and is out of range of any gap closer.

Hard CC is a hard counter to everything, and cannot therefore be listed as valid in a comparison to another skill that is also hard counted by it.

So we're left with speed buffs.

CP5

The_Outsider wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

Junkogen wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hi everyone, thanks for all your feedback. We are looking at several options to limit the number of times Shadow Cloak can be cast in a row. However, unlike Bolt Escape, there are multiple ways of countering Shadow Cloak so we want to be very careful with any change we ultimately make. One of the possibilities we're exploring is reducing your Magicka regeneration while Shadow Cloak is active.

Any change we make will be in a future update, though we don't have a solid time frame at this time.

Why don't you create counters for bolt escape then? Make a skill like magelight that prevents sorcs from bolt escaping.

...or stop listening to these nerf everything folks. Shadow cloak doesn't even work a lot of the time. All you're going to do is make the skill worthless once again.

Gap closers, hard cc, roots to restrict where the sorc can bolt, speed buffs, all of which come from several sources. Oh, and bolt has gotten how many nerfs? I'm sure if people still feel the skill is op then poor ol nightblades can take a hit from the nerf bat.

A gap closer-- is not a viable counter because Bolt Escape stuns anyone who is close. One who gets stunned chasing a BE Sorc obviously CC breaks, and by that time the Sorc has used 2 more BE and is out of range of any gap closer.

Hard CC is a hard counter to everything, and cannot therefore be listed as valid in a comparison to another skill that is also hard counted by it.

So we're left with speed buffs.

Have you tried blocking while you use the gap closer?

Joy_Division

The_Outsider wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

Junkogen wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hi everyone, thanks for all your feedback. We are looking at several options to limit the number of times Shadow Cloak can be cast in a row. However, unlike Bolt Escape, there are multiple ways of countering Shadow Cloak so we want to be very careful with any change we ultimately make. One of the possibilities we're exploring is reducing your Magicka regeneration while Shadow Cloak is active.

Any change we make will be in a future update, though we don't have a solid time frame at this time.

Why don't you create counters for bolt escape then? Make a skill like magelight that prevents sorcs from bolt escaping.

...or stop listening to these nerf everything folks. Shadow cloak doesn't even work a lot of the time. All you're going to do is make the skill worthless once again.

Gap closers, hard cc, roots to restrict where the sorc can bolt, speed buffs, all of which come from several sources. Oh, and bolt has gotten how many nerfs? I'm sure if people still feel the skill is op then poor ol nightblades can take a hit from the nerf bat.

A gap closer-- is not a viable counter because Bolt Escape stuns anyone who is close. One who gets stunned chasing a BE Sorc obviously CC breaks, and by that time the Sorc has used 2 more BE and is out of range of any gap closer.

Hard CC is a hard counter to everything, and cannot therefore be listed as valid in a comparison to another skill that is also hard counted by it.

So we're left with speed buffs.

If I we are to take you word that NB cloak is easily countered, not even by using most of the means mentioned in his thread, why won;t you take other people's word that blot escape is not that difficult to counter with gap closers?

Because your personal experiences are more accurate/less biased/more practical/more correct than other peoples?

kadar

Joy_Division wrote: »

The_Outsider wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

Junkogen wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hi everyone, thanks for all your feedback. We are looking at several options to limit the number of times Shadow Cloak can be cast in a row. However, unlike Bolt Escape, there are multiple ways of countering Shadow Cloak so we want to be very careful with any change we ultimately make. One of the possibilities we're exploring is reducing your Magicka regeneration while Shadow Cloak is active.

Any change we make will be in a future update, though we don't have a solid time frame at this time.

Why don't you create counters for bolt escape then? Make a skill like magelight that prevents sorcs from bolt escaping.

...or stop listening to these nerf everything folks. Shadow cloak doesn't even work a lot of the time. All you're going to do is make the skill worthless once again.

Gap closers, hard cc, roots to restrict where the sorc can bolt, speed buffs, all of which come from several sources. Oh, and bolt has gotten how many nerfs? I'm sure if people still feel the skill is op then poor ol nightblades can take a hit from the nerf bat.

A gap closer-- is not a viable counter because Bolt Escape stuns anyone who is close. One who gets stunned chasing a BE Sorc obviously CC breaks, and by that time the Sorc has used 2 more BE and is out of range of any gap closer.

Hard CC is a hard counter to everything, and cannot therefore be listed as valid in a comparison to another skill that is also hard counted by it.

So we're left with speed buffs.

If I we are to take you word that NB cloak is easily countered, not even by using most of the means mentioned in his thread, why won;t you take other people's word that blot escape is not that difficult to counter with gap closers?

Because your personal experiences are more accurate/less biased/more practical/more correct than other peoples?

No one should be basing their opinions on anyone else's word/personal experience/opinions by themselves. A players opinion should be weighed on top of facts supporting said opinion. And the fact is, when we compare BE to Cloak (and I'm not sure why we are), one objectively realizes that ZOS has already implemented many counters specifically against stealth/stealth/damage/invisibility/Cloak, whereas BE has much fewer similar counters. No one should be listing Gap closers and Hard CC as counters to Cloak. There are plenty of other Cloak specific counters available.

Perfect un-bias opinion is near impossible.

kadar

Have you tried blocking while you use the gap closer?

And actually no, I'll have to try that!

Domander

How about this....

magicka regen lowered while cloaked, if cloak is broken, restores magicka equal to the base cost.