Cloak Needs A Nerf

revonine

Knootewoot wrote: »

Riggsy wrote: »

Being a nightblade is playing on easy mode, if you nerf cloak they might actually have to try.

Have you tried one? Please make a magicka NB and see how well you fare in PvP. Less damage then stamina counterpart and more squishy due to mostly light armor users. Cloak nerfed would not make much difference since not everybody spams it (except if it fails all the time) but it would hurt some magblade builds.

Lately I hope they nerf it. Then, when people are done with their sorcs and DK's and stamblades, will want to try something else. And when they try magblade they will cry for cloak to be better. And I will laugh while I play CU

No everyone will just roll a templar. PvP will just become a stamDK versus templar sometimes you'll come across a stamsoc but that's it xD

NordJitsu

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hi everyone, thanks for all your feedback. We are looking at several options to limit the number of times Shadow Cloak can be cast in a row. However, unlike Bolt Escape, there are multiple ways of countering Shadow Cloak so we want to be very careful with any change we ultimately make. One of the possibilities we're exploring is reducing your Magicka regeneration while Shadow Cloak is active.

Any change we make will be in a future update, though we don't have a solid time frame at this time.

Except that there are multiple ways of countering Bolt Escape...

Invasion, Critical Charge, Teleport Strike, Path of Darkness + Bow Dodge Roll, knockdowns, long duration stuns like Petrify, etc. etc.

Also, unlike Cloak, BE does not allow you to "escape" while staying in the vicinity to follow up with a counter attack.

I personally don't feel Cloak needs a nerf, but I wish you guys would reconsider the damage you did to the Sorc class by hamstringing one of their defining abilities.

tennant94

In my opinion cloak is only 'op' in certain situations. For example in a 1v1 and sometimes 1vx encounters if you can successfully cloak and get out of range of aoe's its pretty much a 100% chance you're going to escape that fight(WHICH MEANS THE NERF CRYERS ARE STILL ALIVE AND NOT DEAD)and theres no other skill with such a high chance of escaping i dont believe, except maybe bolt escape. However the problem that most of the nerf cryers are crying about is how they keep dying because somebody is using cloak. Cloak does not damage you, cloak does not 'dictate the fight', cloak simply puts 1 of the squishiest builds out of harms way for a few seconds and yes you can spam cloak but that costs the nb alot of resources anyway so if your fighting somebody who is perma cloaking just save up your resources because when they attack you, you'll have more resources than them, on the assumption that the nb doesn't have really high recovery and your not throwing caltrops out of desperation because the first throw didn't find the nb and if the nb does have high recovery then they probably will not have enough damage to instantly burst you down anyway. It literally just comes down to l2p issues and i say that from my experience playing as a v16 magic nb and fighting nb's with my v16 sorc and v16 dk>.> l2p! please! before crying nerf ruins the game anymore!!!!!

Derra

tennant94 wrote: »

In my opinion cloak is only 'op' in certain situations. For example in a 1v1 and sometimes 1vx encounters if you can successfully cloak and get out of range of aoe's its pretty much a 100% chance you're going to escape that fight(WHICH MEANS THE NERF CRYERS ARE STILL ALIVE AND NOT DEAD)and theres no other skill with such a high chance of escaping i dont believe, except maybe bolt escape. However the problem that most of the nerf cryers are crying about is how they keep dying because somebody is using cloak. Cloak does not damage you, cloak does not 'dictate the fight', cloak simply puts 1 of the squishiest builds out of harms way for a few seconds and yes you can spam cloak but that costs the nb alot of resources anyway so if your fighting somebody who is perma cloaking just save up your resources because when they attack you, you'll have more resources than them, on the assumption that the nb doesn't have really high recovery and your not throwing caltrops out of desperation because the first throw didn't find the nb and if the nb does have high recovery then they probably will not have enough damage to instantly burst you down anyway. It literally just comes down to l2p issues and i say that from my experience playing as a v16 magic nb and fighting nb's with my v16 sorc and v16 dk>.> l2p! please! before crying nerf ruins the game anymore!!!!!

If you´re not able to dictate a fight with an abilitie that instantly gives you the initiative at any given point in a fight i feel sorry for your abilities - but you should not be arguing about what´s op and what not.

A sorc can dictate the fight with streak/bol and they´re visible while doing so...

TheNephilimCrow

CP5 wrote: »

shade to teleport to when away from the detector.

You realize that Shade doesn't last forever, right? You can't just pop it, fight it out, fear and then teleport away. The shade would be gone by the time you went to fear, given that most fights are not over in two seconds.

Cody

TheNephilimCrow wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

shade to teleport to when away from the detector.

You realize that Shade doesn't last forever, right? You can't just pop it, fight it out, fear and then teleport away. The shade would be gone by the time you went to fear, given that most fights are not over in two seconds.

CP has not played the NB; that or he does not know very much about it. He tried to say that shades are a suitable replacement for cloak in another thread, then proceeded to claim that the NB had good burst heals:/ Let him do more research and he will figure it out.

CP5

Cody wrote: »

TheNephilimCrow wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

shade to teleport to when away from the detector.

You realize that Shade doesn't last forever, right? You can't just pop it, fight it out, fear and then teleport away. The shade would be gone by the time you went to fear, given that most fights are not over in two seconds.

CP has not played the NB; that or he does not know very much about it. He tried to say that shades are a suitable replacement for cloak in another thread, then proceeded to claim that the NB had good burst heals:/ Let him do more research and he will figure it out.

I have 2 of every class and play them all at a decent pace. I also said in that other thread that the shade could be used to get out of sticky situations. It isn't a free teleport, I get that, but if you plan ahead, place the shade while getting chased, then get far enough away from the shade you force your opponents to either camp the shade they may have not even noticed or chace you. If they don't do both you have an advantage.

tennant94

tennant94 wrote: »

Furthermore focus on what your build needs rather what builds dont need. More=better

Derra wrote: »

tennant94 wrote: »

In my opinion cloak is only 'op' in certain situations. For example in a 1v1 and sometimes 1vx encounters if you can successfully cloak and get out of range of aoe's its pretty much a 100% chance you're going to escape that fight(WHICH MEANS THE NERF CRYERS ARE STILL ALIVE AND NOT DEAD)and theres no other skill with such a high chance of escaping i dont believe, except maybe bolt escape. However the problem that most of the nerf cryers are crying about is how they keep dying because somebody is using cloak. Cloak does not damage you, cloak does not 'dictate the fight', cloak simply puts 1 of the squishiest builds out of harms way for a few seconds and yes you can spam cloak but that costs the nb alot of resources anyway so if your fighting somebody who is perma cloaking just save up your resources because when they attack you, you'll have more resources than them, on the assumption that the nb doesn't have really high recovery and your not throwing caltrops out of desperation because the first throw didn't find the nb and if the nb does have high recovery then they probably will not have enough damage to instantly burst you down anyway. It literally just comes down to l2p issues and i say that from my experience playing as a v16 magic nb and fighting nb's with my v16 sorc and v16 dk>.> l2p! please! before crying nerf ruins the game anymore!!!!!

If you´re not able to dictate a fight with an abilitie that instantly gives you the initiative at any given point in a fight i feel sorry for your abilities - but you should not be arguing about what´s op and what not.

A sorc can dictate the fight with streak/bol and they´re visible while doing so...[/quoi

tennant94

tennant94 wrote: »

tennant94 wrote: »

Furthermore focus on what your build needs rather what builds dont need. More=better

Derra wrote: »

tennant94 wrote: »

In my opinion cloak is only 'op' in certain situations. For example in a 1v1 and sometimes 1vx encounters if you can successfully cloak and get out of range of aoe's its pretty much a 100% chance you're going to escape that fight(WHICH MEANS THE NERF CRYERS ARE STILL ALIVE AND NOT DEAD)and theres no other skill with such a high chance of escaping i dont believe, except maybe bolt escape. However the problem that most of the nerf cryers are crying about is how they keep dying because somebody is using cloak. Cloak does not damage you, cloak does not 'dictate the fight', cloak simply puts 1 of the squishiest builds out of harms way for a few seconds and yes you can spam cloak but that costs the nb alot of resources anyway so if your fighting somebody who is perma cloaking just save up your resources because when they attack you, you'll have more resources than them, on the assumption that the nb doesn't have really high recovery and your not throwing caltrops out of desperation because the first throw didn't find the nb and if the nb does have high recovery then they probably will not have enough damage to instantly burst you down anyway. It literally just comes down to l2p issues and i say that from my experience playing as a v16 magic nb and fighting nb's with my v16 sorc and v16 dk>.> l2p! please! before crying nerf ruins the game anymore!!!!!

If you´re not able to dictate a fight with an abilitie that instantly gives you the initiative at any given point in a fight i feel sorry for your abilities - but you should not be arguing about what´s op and what not.

A sorc can dictate the fight with streak/bol and they´re visible while doing so...[/quoi

I think you are confused about this skill, it is not 100% that the nb can successfully cloak therefor i can not get the 'initiative at any given point in a fight' and im arguing about cloak being op or not because its relevant to the post.

Frawr

Cloak issue, like dodge roll and streak, are not individual problems

Bigger picture

We need soft caps back.

Please face up to this.

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO

TheNephilimCrow wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

shade to teleport to when away from the detector.

You realize that Shade doesn't last forever, right? You can't just pop it, fight it out, fear and then teleport away. The shade would be gone by the time you went to fear, given that most fights are not over in two seconds.

Last night another Nightblade tryed to use Shades to live it was so damn cute I laid down caltrops on the shade and Tabbed and marked the poor little thing and he teleported back to the shade he was snared, took a Camouflaged Hunter tick before I hit him with Invasion and Suprise Attack.

Poor VR 16 you just know that reads the forums like OMG their must be no counter to this I Do love FOTM players at times.

dodgehopper_ESO

Leave cloak alone. Let the other classes get their business sorted out to be on an equal footing, particularly the broken elements either due to bad design or bugs.

kadar

NordJitsu wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hi everyone, thanks for all your feedback. We are looking at several options to limit the number of times Shadow Cloak can be cast in a row. However, unlike Bolt Escape, there are multiple ways of countering Shadow Cloak so we want to be very careful with any change we ultimately make. One of the possibilities we're exploring is reducing your Magicka regeneration while Shadow Cloak is active.

Any change we make will be in a future update, though we don't have a solid time frame at this time.

Except that there are multiple ways of countering Bolt Escape...

Invasion, Critical Charge, Teleport Strike, Path of Darkness + Bow Dodge Roll, knockdowns, long duration stuns like Petrify, etc. etc.

Also, unlike Cloak, BE does not allow you to "escape" while staying in the vicinity to follow up with a counter attack.

I personally don't feel Cloak needs a nerf, but I wish you guys would reconsider the damage you did to the Sorc class by hamstringing one of their defining abilities.

This has already been talked about quite a bit in this thread and others. Gap Closers don't counter BE in the same way things counter Cloak. Spells/abilities that cancelled/nullified BE's effect completely, would be considered counters (DK chains would count I guess). Gap Closers just allow an individual to keep up (maybe).

Knockdowns and CC also counter....everything. So you could count them I guess if you really want to?

CP5

The_Outsider wrote: »

NordJitsu wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hi everyone, thanks for all your feedback. We are looking at several options to limit the number of times Shadow Cloak can be cast in a row. However, unlike Bolt Escape, there are multiple ways of countering Shadow Cloak so we want to be very careful with any change we ultimately make. One of the possibilities we're exploring is reducing your Magicka regeneration while Shadow Cloak is active.

Any change we make will be in a future update, though we don't have a solid time frame at this time.

Except that there are multiple ways of countering Bolt Escape...

Invasion, Critical Charge, Teleport Strike, Path of Darkness + Bow Dodge Roll, knockdowns, long duration stuns like Petrify, etc. etc.

Also, unlike Cloak, BE does not allow you to "escape" while staying in the vicinity to follow up with a counter attack.

I personally don't feel Cloak needs a nerf, but I wish you guys would reconsider the damage you did to the Sorc class by hamstringing one of their defining abilities.

This has already been talked about quite a bit in this thread and others. Gap Closers don't counter BE in the same way things counter Cloak. Spells/abilities that cancelled/nullified BE's effect completely, would be considered counters (DK chains would count I guess). Gap Closers just allow an individual to keep up (maybe).

Knockdowns and CC also counter....everything. So you could count them I guess if you really want to?

Generally when one uses a gap opener they intended to get at range. If someone uses a gap closer the goal of using said skill is negated as you end back at square 1, with an enemy in melee range. Seeing as gap closers have minimum range requirements using a short range gap opener is a good way to line oneself up for a gap closer. Unless the short duration stun or slight damage are the intended purpose of the skill, in which case sure, gap closers don't counter either. Blocking on the other hand does wonders against that.

kadar

CP5 wrote: »

The_Outsider wrote: »

NordJitsu wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hi everyone, thanks for all your feedback. We are looking at several options to limit the number of times Shadow Cloak can be cast in a row. However, unlike Bolt Escape, there are multiple ways of countering Shadow Cloak so we want to be very careful with any change we ultimately make. One of the possibilities we're exploring is reducing your Magicka regeneration while Shadow Cloak is active.

Any change we make will be in a future update, though we don't have a solid time frame at this time.

Except that there are multiple ways of countering Bolt Escape...

Invasion, Critical Charge, Teleport Strike, Path of Darkness + Bow Dodge Roll, knockdowns, long duration stuns like Petrify, etc. etc.

Also, unlike Cloak, BE does not allow you to "escape" while staying in the vicinity to follow up with a counter attack.

I personally don't feel Cloak needs a nerf, but I wish you guys would reconsider the damage you did to the Sorc class by hamstringing one of their defining abilities.

This has already been talked about quite a bit in this thread and others. Gap Closers don't counter BE in the same way things counter Cloak. Spells/abilities that cancelled/nullified BE's effect completely, would be considered counters (DK chains would count I guess). Gap Closers just allow an individual to keep up (maybe).

Knockdowns and CC also counter....everything. So you could count them I guess if you really want to?

Generally when one uses a gap opener they intended to get at range. If someone uses a gap closer the goal of using said skill is negated as you end back at square 1, with an enemy in melee range. Seeing as gap closers have minimum range requirements using a short range gap opener is a good way to line oneself up for a gap closer. Unless the short duration stun or slight damage are the intended purpose of the skill, in which case sure, gap closers don't counter either. Blocking on the other hand does wonders against that.

Know what ya mean for sure. The difference I see is that Gap Closers don't "Ctrl+Z" the effect of the Opener. They still allow for the distance to be traveled.

Whereas when cloak is countered, the entire effect of the skill is null.

I assume this is the logic ZOS is using when the BE doesn't have "Multiple" counters like Cloak. Plus it would be the only one, if they DID consider Gap Closer a counter...

CP5

The_Outsider wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

The_Outsider wrote: »

NordJitsu wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hi everyone, thanks for all your feedback. We are looking at several options to limit the number of times Shadow Cloak can be cast in a row. However, unlike Bolt Escape, there are multiple ways of countering Shadow Cloak so we want to be very careful with any change we ultimately make. One of the possibilities we're exploring is reducing your Magicka regeneration while Shadow Cloak is active.

Any change we make will be in a future update, though we don't have a solid time frame at this time.

Except that there are multiple ways of countering Bolt Escape...

Invasion, Critical Charge, Teleport Strike, Path of Darkness + Bow Dodge Roll, knockdowns, long duration stuns like Petrify, etc. etc.

Also, unlike Cloak, BE does not allow you to "escape" while staying in the vicinity to follow up with a counter attack.

I personally don't feel Cloak needs a nerf, but I wish you guys would reconsider the damage you did to the Sorc class by hamstringing one of their defining abilities.

This has already been talked about quite a bit in this thread and others. Gap Closers don't counter BE in the same way things counter Cloak. Spells/abilities that cancelled/nullified BE's effect completely, would be considered counters (DK chains would count I guess). Gap Closers just allow an individual to keep up (maybe).

Knockdowns and CC also counter....everything. So you could count them I guess if you really want to?

Generally when one uses a gap opener they intended to get at range. If someone uses a gap closer the goal of using said skill is negated as you end back at square 1, with an enemy in melee range. Seeing as gap closers have minimum range requirements using a short range gap opener is a good way to line oneself up for a gap closer. Unless the short duration stun or slight damage are the intended purpose of the skill, in which case sure, gap closers don't counter either. Blocking on the other hand does wonders against that.

Know what ya mean for sure. The difference I see is that Gap Closers don't "Ctrl+Z" the effect of the Opener. They still allow for the distance to be traveled.

Whereas when cloak is countered, the entire effect of the skill is null.

I assume this is the logic ZOS is using when the BE doesn't have "Multiple" counters like Cloak. Plus it would be the only one, if they DID consider Gap Closer a counter...

However when you cast cloak it is basically a magicka dodge roll. It forces attacks to miss and if morphed for it still purges dots. Now I would write up the purge the same as streak's damage, but unless you are within range of a RML user you still force attacks to miss and I have managed several times to survive heavy fire by spamming cloak ineffectively just to dodge attacks.

kadar

CP5 wrote: »

The_Outsider wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

The_Outsider wrote: »

NordJitsu wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hi everyone, thanks for all your feedback. We are looking at several options to limit the number of times Shadow Cloak can be cast in a row. However, unlike Bolt Escape, there are multiple ways of countering Shadow Cloak so we want to be very careful with any change we ultimately make. One of the possibilities we're exploring is reducing your Magicka regeneration while Shadow Cloak is active.

Any change we make will be in a future update, though we don't have a solid time frame at this time.

Except that there are multiple ways of countering Bolt Escape...

Invasion, Critical Charge, Teleport Strike, Path of Darkness + Bow Dodge Roll, knockdowns, long duration stuns like Petrify, etc. etc.

Also, unlike Cloak, BE does not allow you to "escape" while staying in the vicinity to follow up with a counter attack.

I personally don't feel Cloak needs a nerf, but I wish you guys would reconsider the damage you did to the Sorc class by hamstringing one of their defining abilities.

This has already been talked about quite a bit in this thread and others. Gap Closers don't counter BE in the same way things counter Cloak. Spells/abilities that cancelled/nullified BE's effect completely, would be considered counters (DK chains would count I guess). Gap Closers just allow an individual to keep up (maybe).

Knockdowns and CC also counter....everything. So you could count them I guess if you really want to?

Generally when one uses a gap opener they intended to get at range. If someone uses a gap closer the goal of using said skill is negated as you end back at square 1, with an enemy in melee range. Seeing as gap closers have minimum range requirements using a short range gap opener is a good way to line oneself up for a gap closer. Unless the short duration stun or slight damage are the intended purpose of the skill, in which case sure, gap closers don't counter either. Blocking on the other hand does wonders against that.

Know what ya mean for sure. The difference I see is that Gap Closers don't "Ctrl+Z" the effect of the Opener. They still allow for the distance to be traveled.

Whereas when cloak is countered, the entire effect of the skill is null.

I assume this is the logic ZOS is using when the BE doesn't have "Multiple" counters like Cloak. Plus it would be the only one, if they DID consider Gap Closer a counter...

However when you cast cloak it is basically a magicka dodge roll. It forces attacks to miss and if morphed for it still purges dots. Now I would write up the purge the same as streak's damage, but unless you are within range of a RML user you still force attacks to miss and I have managed several times to survive heavy fire by spamming cloak ineffectively just to dodge attacks.

...Lost me. Because it's possible some projectiles can miss (IF you cloak during the travel time), Streak = Cloak???

My post was in reply to NordJitsu's attempt to say that BE counters= Cloak counters. Which is simply untrue.

EDIT: Or did you mean that because some things can miss, Cloak isn't truely nullified? I'm talking about counters to Cloak. Not the effects of projectiles or light/heavy attacks or Gap Closers. Those things are not counters to Cloak.

Cathexis

The_Outsider wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

The_Outsider wrote: »

NordJitsu wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hi everyone, thanks for all your feedback. We are looking at several options to limit the number of times Shadow Cloak can be cast in a row. However, unlike Bolt Escape, there are multiple ways of countering Shadow Cloak so we want to be very careful with any change we ultimately make. One of the possibilities we're exploring is reducing your Magicka regeneration while Shadow Cloak is active.

Any change we make will be in a future update, though we don't have a solid time frame at this time.

Except that there are multiple ways of countering Bolt Escape...

Invasion, Critical Charge, Teleport Strike, Path of Darkness + Bow Dodge Roll, knockdowns, long duration stuns like Petrify, etc. etc.

Also, unlike Cloak, BE does not allow you to "escape" while staying in the vicinity to follow up with a counter attack.

I personally don't feel Cloak needs a nerf, but I wish you guys would reconsider the damage you did to the Sorc class by hamstringing one of their defining abilities.

This has already been talked about quite a bit in this thread and others. Gap Closers don't counter BE in the same way things counter Cloak. Spells/abilities that cancelled/nullified BE's effect completely, would be considered counters (DK chains would count I guess). Gap Closers just allow an individual to keep up (maybe).

Knockdowns and CC also counter....everything. So you could count them I guess if you really want to?

Generally when one uses a gap opener they intended to get at range. If someone uses a gap closer the goal of using said skill is negated as you end back at square 1, with an enemy in melee range. Seeing as gap closers have minimum range requirements using a short range gap opener is a good way to line oneself up for a gap closer. Unless the short duration stun or slight damage are the intended purpose of the skill, in which case sure, gap closers don't counter either. Blocking on the other hand does wonders against that.

Know what ya mean for sure. The difference I see is that Gap Closers don't "Ctrl+Z" the effect of the Opener. They still allow for the distance to be traveled.

Whereas when cloak is countered, the entire effect of the skill is null.

I assume this is the logic ZOS is using when the BE doesn't have "Multiple" counters like Cloak. Plus it would be the only one, if they DID consider Gap Closer a counter...

Yes bolt does have multiple counters. Range attacks up to 45 meters, chains, silver leesh, other sorcs, negate, charge abilities, stuns, knockdown, interupt.

The difference with cloak being instantly nullified is that the counters only indirectly affect the opponent. They don't disable the opponent and only sometimes put them at a disadvantage. Often, it only delays the inevitable. When you counter bolt, it always puts the sorc at a disadvantage.

Docmandu

Was having a look at what camelot unchained is upto, and couldn't but notice the Stealth post @ http://camelotunchained.com/v2/stretch-goals/

The design goals for this Stretch Goal can be summarized below -
Goal #1 – Design a fun, interesting stealth mechanic, and classes that are not seen as “Easy Mode” by non-stealthers.
Goal #2 - Do not design a class that is centered around a strong opener, stun, and vanish with long/unlimited stealth, nor a class that can hide, one-shot, vanish again
Goal #3 – Design a class that has the ability to be very active and sought-after, either in RvR groups or as roamers
Goal #4 – Design a class that some non-traditional stealthers want to play
Goal #5 – Design a class that requires skill to play well, and not just unlimited patience
Goal #6 – Design a system where a gank group of stealthers is not possible
Goal #7 – Design a system that doesn’t affect the launch date of the game

Wonder if a few of those points were influenced by ESO...

Treaborne

Yonkit wrote: »

Detect Potions, Radiant Magelight, Any form of AoE, Caltrops, Revealing Flare, Piercing Mark, NPCs, Roaming Bosses, Charge Attacks. It's your fault for not using the counters available, don't come to the forums and complain about an issue that only affects lazy individuals.

Personally as a group I use my AOE cones to reveal stealth players, and sometimes we use the morphed mage light skill to see invisible.

Pick something else to request a nerf on... like say for instance a nerf for dungeons so people can solo GROUP dungeons, but with less items/exp rewards, and still be able to get the achievement for completion.

a.skelton92

Docmandu wrote: »

Was having a look at what camelot unchained is upto, and couldn't but notice the Stealth post @ http://camelotunchained.com/v2/stretch-goals/

The design goals for this Stretch Goal can be summarized below -
Goal #1 – Design a fun, interesting stealth mechanic, and classes that are not seen as “Easy Mode” by non-stealthers.
Goal #2 - Do not design a class that is centered around a strong opener, stun, and vanish with long/unlimited stealth, nor a class that can hide, one-shot, vanish again
Goal #3 – Design a class that has the ability to be very active and sought-after, either in RvR groups or as roamers
Goal #4 – Design a class that some non-traditional stealthers want to play
Goal #5 – Design a class that requires skill to play well, and not just unlimited patience
Goal #6 – Design a system where a gank group of stealthers is not possible
Goal #7 – Design a system that doesn’t affect the launch date of the game

Wonder if a few of those points were influenced by ESO...

Does not matter how much Camelot Unchained preaches they are going to make the best most balanced PvP game ever, I would rather cut off my own hands than have to play that tacky piece of ***. Fair enough when they said "we would rather see good gameplay than graphics" but nothing could have prepared me for the horror that awaited me behind that 'screenshots' hyperlink. Its laughable.. When they initially said gameplay over graphics I thought it was just going to be like WoW on low settings.. The hideousness of that game will haunt my dreams forever..

Treaborne

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hi everyone, thanks for all your feedback. We are looking at several options to limit the number of times Shadow Cloak can be cast in a row. However, unlike Bolt Escape, there are multiple ways of countering Shadow Cloak so we want to be very careful with any change we ultimately make. One of the possibilities we're exploring is reducing your Magicka regeneration while Shadow Cloak is active.

Any change we make will be in a future update, though we don't have a solid time frame at this time.

Please do not nerf cloak/invisible... it is expensive enough for lowbie characters to use as it is.

Docmandu

a.skelton92 wrote: »

Docmandu wrote: »

Was having a look at what camelot unchained is upto, and couldn't but notice the Stealth post @ http://camelotunchained.com/v2/stretch-goals/

The design goals for this Stretch Goal can be summarized below -
Goal #1 – Design a fun, interesting stealth mechanic, and classes that are not seen as “Easy Mode” by non-stealthers.
Goal #2 - Do not design a class that is centered around a strong opener, stun, and vanish with long/unlimited stealth, nor a class that can hide, one-shot, vanish again
Goal #3 – Design a class that has the ability to be very active and sought-after, either in RvR groups or as roamers
Goal #4 – Design a class that some non-traditional stealthers want to play
Goal #5 – Design a class that requires skill to play well, and not just unlimited patience
Goal #6 – Design a system where a gank group of stealthers is not possible
Goal #7 – Design a system that doesn’t affect the launch date of the game

Wonder if a few of those points were influenced by ESO...

Does not matter how much Camelot Unchained preaches they are going to make the best most balanced PvP game ever, I would rather cut off my own hands than have to play that tacky piece of ***. Fair enough when they said "we would rather see good gameplay than graphics" but nothing could have prepared me for the horror that awaited me behind that 'screenshots' hyperlink. Its laughable.. When they initially said gameplay over graphics I thought it was just going to be like WoW on low settings.. The hideousness of that game will haunt my dreams forever..

Just in case you missed it.. it was about those goal descriptions, not about the game itself or how awesome / sucky / terribad it is.

I'll try out any game that has RvR style PvP.. and judge it when I'm playing it.. not before or not based on any marketing talks on a website

kadar

Cathexis wrote: »

The_Outsider wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

The_Outsider wrote: »

NordJitsu wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hi everyone, thanks for all your feedback. We are looking at several options to limit the number of times Shadow Cloak can be cast in a row. However, unlike Bolt Escape, there are multiple ways of countering Shadow Cloak so we want to be very careful with any change we ultimately make. One of the possibilities we're exploring is reducing your Magicka regeneration while Shadow Cloak is active.

Any change we make will be in a future update, though we don't have a solid time frame at this time.

Except that there are multiple ways of countering Bolt Escape...

Invasion, Critical Charge, Teleport Strike, Path of Darkness + Bow Dodge Roll, knockdowns, long duration stuns like Petrify, etc. etc.

Also, unlike Cloak, BE does not allow you to "escape" while staying in the vicinity to follow up with a counter attack.

I personally don't feel Cloak needs a nerf, but I wish you guys would reconsider the damage you did to the Sorc class by hamstringing one of their defining abilities.

This has already been talked about quite a bit in this thread and others. Gap Closers don't counter BE in the same way things counter Cloak. Spells/abilities that cancelled/nullified BE's effect completely, would be considered counters (DK chains would count I guess). Gap Closers just allow an individual to keep up (maybe).

Knockdowns and CC also counter....everything. So you could count them I guess if you really want to?

Generally when one uses a gap opener they intended to get at range. If someone uses a gap closer the goal of using said skill is negated as you end back at square 1, with an enemy in melee range. Seeing as gap closers have minimum range requirements using a short range gap opener is a good way to line oneself up for a gap closer. Unless the short duration stun or slight damage are the intended purpose of the skill, in which case sure, gap closers don't counter either. Blocking on the other hand does wonders against that.

Know what ya mean for sure. The difference I see is that Gap Closers don't "Ctrl+Z" the effect of the Opener. They still allow for the distance to be traveled.

Whereas when cloak is countered, the entire effect of the skill is null.

I assume this is the logic ZOS is using when the BE doesn't have "Multiple" counters like Cloak. Plus it would be the only one, if they DID consider Gap Closer a counter...

Yes bolt does have multiple counters. Range attacks up to 45 meters, chains, silver leesh, other sorcs, negate, charge abilities, stuns, knockdown, interupt.

The difference with cloak being instantly nullified is that the counters only indirectly affect the opponent. They don't disable the opponent and only sometimes put them at a disadvantage. Often, it only delays the inevitable. When you counter bolt, it always puts the sorc at a disadvantage.

You must have only read that one comment. Sliver Leash and Chains are the only counters you list that counter BE in the same way Cloak counters counter Cloak.

Even ZOS thinks it's sillly to compare the two for goodness sake.

EDIT: Oh and Negate. Which also counters Cloak.

Araxleon

When cloak was wonderful
I would totally love to see the purge (dot removal) of cloak come back!

ZOS_RogerJ

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