PTS Update 33 - Feedback Thread for Account Wide Achievements

kind_hero

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

@Tandor Thanks for the ping. This thread is being watched closely for constructive feedback around Account-Wide Achievements.

We understand there are mixed opinions on this issue. Many of you have taken time to list your concerns and possible solutions. The team is reviewing these and analytics from PTS. We welcome any feedback that the team can take under consideration during this period.

Also, we will continue to take feedback beyond this point as well. As always, we just ask for constructive feedback as this is part of the process. Thanks all.

My suggestion is to postpone this change to achievements until you gather more feedback and consider ways to do this properly. As it stands now, it looks like a mess. I don't see any urgency to go ahead with this change as it looks now.

Stuga comes to an alt who displays Hero of Wrothgar. "Do you know how long I've been looking for you?". It's a time paradox or a poorly implemented feature?

Setting aside the issue of the hard work put in certain achievements that will be deleted (which is a big thing),
please consider how confusing can be when playing an alt in a zone where everything was completed by the main character:
Skyshards, zone completion, story quests, etc, can't be assessed from the achievements menu. What is it for then?
To me, being able to use a title such as Saviour/Hero of X without even stepping in that zone is equivalent to broken.
Seeing low level characters with trifecta titles is a joke and devalues the achievements, again broken in my book. Seeing a Grand Overlord title with a Tyro rank looks broken to me as well.
It's like using cheats and messing with things.

Instead of making the grinds account wide (book knowledge, recipes, etc), you delete the progress of alts and make a mess of playing an alt.

I also understand the group who wishes account wide achievements. There has to be a middle ground. Please consider your motto for this game: "play as you want". Without the ability to track achievements/char, many people who care about this feature won't be able to play as they want.

Having an account wide overview of achievements is a good thing, but deleting and merging achievements into one single mess is a disaster, after 8 years in which the achievement system has been designed character centered.

spartaxoxo

The museum pieces being broken needs to be fixed asap. The various pieces that are quest rewards, especially the music box, are ones that need to be repeatable and won't work as a collectible. Music boxes have a limited range.

Tandor

kind_hero wrote: »

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

@Tandor Thanks for the ping. This thread is being watched closely for constructive feedback around Account-Wide Achievements.

We understand there are mixed opinions on this issue. Many of you have taken time to list your concerns and possible solutions. The team is reviewing these and analytics from PTS. We welcome any feedback that the team can take under consideration during this period.

Also, we will continue to take feedback beyond this point as well. As always, we just ask for constructive feedback as this is part of the process. Thanks all.

Stuga comes to an alt who displays Hero of Wrothgar. "Do you know how long I've been looking for you?". It's a time paradox or a poorly implemented feature?

That deserves an awesome, the problem is I can't make up my mind whether to give it to you or Stuga !

wolfie1.0.

tim77 wrote: »

silvereyes wrote: »

• Don't make Undaunted harder to level on alts due to the lack of XP from achievements.
• Don't make Scrying / Excavation harder to level on alts due to the lack of XP from achievements.

Well, these are specifically excluded from the changes, as well as skyshards.
But (or because?) these can all be bought in the crownshop

You can't purchase your way out of doing the antiquities grind. It's not an option.

Alendrin

I didn't read the whole thread so I may be repeating but on the PTS I am getting achievements I did not have.

Example: After logging on two characters I got hero of clockwork city, because between two characters I had all 5 of the sub tasks but not all of them on either character.

I also got a battlegrounds achievement where the points earned on two characters, neither of which had the achievement, were combined to give the achievement.

Not sure this is working as intended.

NoxiousBlight

I like the account-wide achievements, but I would really like the "Earned By: Character Name" removed. No need to list character names when hovering over.

Salmeyna

Having another tab for achievements on account is not real accountwide achievements, and just in these thread there were already plenty of people trying telling the same. No, it's not a compromise. An optionality is a compromise, a simple tab to see what you already know is just a punch in the face for those who got their hopes up.
While i don't want to invalidate people who don't want this awesome function implemented, stop acting like noone wants it. Heck, even polls started by players show that the majority wants ACCOUNTWIDE ACHIEVEMENTS. Not an overview tab.
Also stop speaking for the whole endgame community. People like me have to speak up because if we won't, others might assume you speak for us. There are plenty of people in the endgame community who love this. In fact, out of all of my guildies we talked about it with, only a single one voiced his displeasure.
I just checked this topic, and while those being happy about it mostly just posted 1, maybe 2 times, several of the naysayers repeat their opinion over and over again, blowing the relations out of proportions.
It's fine if you or your friends don't want it, or want it to be different. But stop assuming everyone hates something you hate.
It's important to me that the devs monitoring this thread know that there is plenty of support behind them in the current design. If there is a need to take another look at the system, that's fine, just please, don't postpone it, and don't water it down to a simple overview tab. Please. I don't pretend to speak for the endgame community, i don't pretend to speak for the majority, but i can speak for plenty of players like me, who are playing since year one, and love this feature.

Fischblut

I can only provide my general feedback.

I always wanted account-wide achievements and titles, but I would never believe such thing would be possible in ESO. So for me, this feature is absolutely amazing!
I look forward to just play any alt character when I'm in suitable mood, without feeling like I waste my time if I do not play on my main character... Oh my, now I think I can no longer call any of my characters "alt", and any of them can be my "main" depending on my mood

I view achievement as my own progress, and my characters are just tools. Some are better and more comfortable for certain tasks.
After I complete an achievement once, I do not repeat it on other characters.

If other players get option to keep their achievements character-wide, and this would be possible to implement - that's okay.
If that will mean that achievement-wide system will be postponed for some time... That would be a bit sad, but I could wait.
But please, do not cancel the account-wide achievement system! I was promised shiny, I really want it already... and plan some stuff around this feature even now.

Sometimes I happen to get the same achievement on alt character, but it is byproduct of some activity. For example, one of my 50 Lvl mules has Tactician title, simply because I leveled him in Battlegrounds, and in one of matches our team was just lucky with capturing those relics

When I was still doing dungeon achievements for skins/personalities, I did them on character who was most comfortable for me. After unlocking those cosmetics once, I never returned to those dungeons again. My tank stopped tanking veteran content approximately at the start of 2018, but I want him to have The Unchained title. It's not perfect, but close enough (perfect would be "Chainbreaker"; and not tied to veteran 12-man trials). I don't need this title on any other character, so I never even went into BRP arena on veteran difficulty. With account-wide titles, my comfortable DD character might eventually go and earn this title for my tank. Character teamwork!

If PVP rank is not included in this, it should have been in the list of exclusions.

PVP ranks are also achievements so should have been included imo.

This is the only thing which makes me sad in implementations of account-wide achievement I really hoped to finally get my account to Level 50 in Alliance War. But after years of playing on the same PvP character and finally getting to level 40 in Alliance rank, I no longer have any wish to continue playing PvP on the same character.
I feel like it's a waste playing a bit of Cyrodiil on each of my alts, because in the end their progress doesn;t increase my overall rank.

Well, at least there is some improvement regarding PvP: earning Battleground-specific achievements, and earning "Necromancer slayer" will be much comfortable when progress can be done on any character
My stamplar accidentally got Chaos Keeper and Relic Hunter titles while I was grinding Battlegrounds for Legate rank dye, but it is not her perfect title. But my stamwarden would love to use this title, and now he can. And my main PvE character wanted to be "Relic Hunter" since Vvardenfell was released!

In addition to achievements and titles, I would love to have account-wide Alliance Rank someday.

Since alts will no longer have a purpose, perhaps they're hoping people will delete them by the thousands to free up data storage space?

For me, there can never be enough of character slots. Aside from inventory storage and crafting writs, every character provides different gameplay and looks different. I have character of every class in magicka and stamina, and I have 3 Dragonknights (tank, magicka dd and stamina dd). Some of them use only certain costume/outfit/personality/mount, which I do not use for any other characters.
The only "achievement stuff" I complete on every character is:
- collecting skyshards
- leveling skill lines such as Dark Brotherhood
- skill points from Public Dungeon group events, and from dungeon quests

But those annoying things will not change with account-wide achievements, so I will still have to redo them again if I create another character

I think it may just be marketing. Customers who are deemed "Fickle" get the most preferential treatment to stop them taking their custom elsewhere.

In my case, it's starting to work and gives me hope for ESO. I played ESO very actively since 2016. But my main game is GW2 nowadays, and I play it mostly for flying mounts. Of course, it has some additional gameplay features which are amazing (account-wide achievements and PvP/WvW rank, legendary armor as ultimate goal for master crafters, official gold > gems converter).
I was in process of giving up on ESO completely... But after announcement of account-wide achievements, I now watch ESO with interest again.

If it wasn't for Seals of Endeavors (that's a free Radiant Apex mount every 10 months, too good to ignore!), I would only log in to ESO during events nowadays. Since Greymoor, there were few changes which negatively affected my gameplay and greatly reduced the fun. It would take some really good features to offset for that, and account-wide achievements is one of such features for me.

This change is devastating Completely changes the game for me, and with my sub up in 2 weeks, this may be the time, despite how much I've loved this game

I was subscriber for most of time since 2017. There was a gap in subscription when I started playing other MMO game in 2020, but I subscribed again closer to that year's end. Then, I let my sub to run out in November 2021, and I still haven't resubbed. I could not last without craft bag during events in the past But these days, each time I have an urge to subscribe when my inventory is full (which is every 5 minutes), I remind myself of all sad things which happened to my gameplay in ESO during past two years.

Getting account-wide achievements is one of two things which can push me to resub again. Second thing should be official gold > crown exchange system

Gifting system is far from perfect, and nowadays it's harder to find crown sellers with 400:1 rates. If I can't reliably keep collecting all the nice cosmetics from the store, I don't have any reason to be subscribed for more than 1 month a year and buy chapters at all. I don't know if/when better system will be finally implemented, but till that day account-wide achievement progress will help me to not lose hope for ESO.

In seriousness, those not pictured are anyone who looks forward to investing in prestigious achievements (Master Angler, Master Crafter, etc)

Well... I stopped using Master Angler title after Summerset was released. The food which increases chance to catch rare fish, devalued this title the same day.

I never even used Grand Master Crafter title, because there are Research scrolls which can reduce your trait research time greatly.

Even hardest trial titles like Godslayer are being sold for gold. I am indifferent if somebody buys carries for gold, but personally I would be proud to earn such titles myself. Sadly, I don't use voice chat at all, so I can't get into veteran trial groups. Account-wide achievements don't change anything for me regarding such ultimate end-game titles.

I've been thinking over the last few hours, trying to process it all. I've settled on a single word.

Disrespected.

I feel like my time has been disrespected.
I feel like my loyalty (and money paid) has been disrespected.
I feel like any feedback I've given has been disrespected.

I've seen disrespect to old players before:

1) The hardest hit was Greymoor: developers decided to make all already existing vMA and vDSA weapons obsolete. When Greymoor went live, old players had no weapons to show for all their vMA and vDSA runs - they had to refarm the same content again. I am still mad about it
Since Greymoor, I did just a few vMA runs, but I haven't done a single DSA run at all (even on normal). This particular change is what made me stop caring about any "serious" PvE stuff and gear. It was great to see stuff like "Item set collections" added into ESO afterwards, but it didn't change anything for owners of those old weapons.

2) Then Champion Points system was reworked, and there is barely any power coming from CPs now. Before that rework, I was way over the 810 CP cap, and I was still glad to earn another champion point from time to time. Because I hoped to eventually be able to use all my points and become more powerful. After CP 2.0, I stopped caring about CPs and character progression at all

3) And then, when cosmetic collections was left as the major interesting part of ESO, we suddenly got Seals of Endeavors and gem price tags on Radiant Apex mounts. It would be ok if that system mattered only for Ayleid and newer crown crate seasons... I would not even be too mad if old Radiants got gem price tags during their returns, since people would still have to open many crates to get those gems. But now anyone can just get Seals for doing simple fast stuff, and in time get any of those old Radiant Apex mount without opening a single crate.
As old seasons return, each time we see all that stuff devalued. Mounts which used to be very rare, lose almost all their meaning

So I just don't see how account-wide achievements devalue something in game any more than all those things I've mentioned. And if players were not "compensated" for any of those sad changes, it would not be fair to see account-wide achievements system canceled. If it will be canceled, I would wait for:

- all my old vMA and vDSA weapons converted into Perfected versions automatically
- rework of Champion Points system, so we can either use all CP stars at the same time, or revert everything to CP 1.0 and remove the 810 CP cap
- removal of ability to get pre-Ayleid crown crate stuff with Seals, and offer something valuable for players who already owned Psijic Radiant Apex mounts before this season's current return. Because so far those players are among the first players whose rarest mounts got truly devalued (since many players now have 16 000 seals and could unlock any of those mounts for free).

HumbleThaumaturge

Someone has probably mentioned this already. I have not read through all 16 pages of comments on this thread, so please forgive this one if this is a repeat:

I think it is real wrong to share the "Former Emperor"/"Former Empress" title among all characters. I strongly feel that this Achievement title should be character-specific, and not shared. I just logged-on to the test server (PTS) . . . and the title is, indeed, now shared.

silvereyes

Alendrin wrote: »

I didn't read the whole thread so I may be repeating but on the PTS I am getting achievements I did not have.

Example: After logging on two characters I got hero of clockwork city, because between two characters I had all 5 of the sub tasks but not all of them on either character.

I also got a battlegrounds achievement where the points earned on two characters, neither of which had the achievement, were combined to give the achievement.

Not sure this is working as intended.

Not sure if it's intended or not, but it's definitely confusing and in some ways destructive to have all such objective-based achievements merged, especially with the system assigning the "Earned by" credit at the time of login. By objective-based, I mean the ones that have a checklist of steps, as opposed to the incremental ones like "kill x of y", "fence x gold", etc. About the only one I wouldn't mind having merged for me would be the monster trophy hunter ones that are very RNG based. For those, I'd make each monster trophy a separate account-wide achievement.

I reported the current implementation as a bug https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/7509450/#Comment_7509450

At the very least, I think it should stop short of clearing the final objective during a merge, so the player has the option to choose which character gets the credit, and they still get the thrill of earning the achievement in response to doing something, not just logging in.

A better solution, in my opinion, would be to continue to track objective-based achievements at the character level, and then give the account credit for the achievement when any one character meets all the objectives. Ideally, this would be done in a way so that multiple characters could repeat the achievement and get their name and date earned in the tooltip and expanded achievement details.

tmbrinks

If I had to guess... maybe 5% of the game's population even is on the forums... and maybe 25% of that population even looks at the PTS patch notes.

I'm only imagining the comments when it goes live and people wonder why all their characters are now virtually identical. Why they can't repeat certain content, etc...

And by that point, it's too late to go back as the database will have been destroyed. That's why I fight.

Not for the reasons I'm accused of.

cynaes

I'm really looking forward to account-wide achievements. And most of my alts think that way too, because I don't have to complete everything on main anymore. For me, it means more flexibility with literally no downside.

I think pretty much everything has been said in favor of account-wide achievements. Someone else summed it up better than I could do:

Fischblut wrote: »

I view achievement as my own progress, and my characters are just tools. Some are better and more comfortable for certain tasks.
After I complete an achievement once, I do not repeat it on other characters.

I totally agree with that.

I do get that it's a hot topic, much more so than I would have expected. Most of the arguments against account-wide achievements frankly don't resonate with me. Though that is fine, it's just a different way of looking at things. I don't think any one way is necessarily better, but I do feel as if those that are against account-wide achievements are a very vocal minority. I'm in two very active guilds (3 other guilds are not very active) and I haven't seen anyone discussing the matter ingame at all. Maybe the difference is in playstyle. I play in casual guilds w/o progression raids or similar stuff. Those players that feel like account-wide achievements devalue their characters and hurt replayability often seem to mention specific, hard-to-get titles or achievements, which seems to point towards players more heavily focused on endgame/pro-gaming.

silvereyes

Salmeyna wrote: »

Having another tab for achievements on account is not real accountwide achievements, and just in these thread there were already plenty of people trying telling the same. No, it's not a compromise. An optionality is a compromise, a simple tab to see what you already know is just a punch in the face for those who got their hopes up.
While i don't want to invalidate people who don't want this awesome function implemented, stop acting like noone wants it. Heck, even polls started by players show that the majority wants ACCOUNTWIDE ACHIEVEMENTS. Not an overview tab.
Also stop speaking for the whole endgame community. People like me have to speak up because if we won't, others might assume you speak for us. There are plenty of people in the endgame community who love this. In fact, out of all of my guildies we talked about it with, only a single one voiced his displeasure.
I just checked this topic, and while those being happy about it mostly just posted 1, maybe 2 times, several of the naysayers repeat their opinion over and over again, blowing the relations out of proportions.
It's fine if you or your friends don't want it, or want it to be different. But stop assuming everyone hates something you hate.
It's important to me that the devs monitoring this thread know that there is plenty of support behind them in the current design. If there is a need to take another look at the system, that's fine, just please, don't postpone it, and don't water it down to a simple overview tab. Please. I don't pretend to speak for the endgame community, i don't pretend to speak for the majority, but i can speak for plenty of players like me, who are playing since year one, and love this feature.

If you look back literally one page in the thread, you will see me advocating for both account-wide achievements and the ability to track things at the character level.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/7512139/#Comment_7512139

Go back several more pages, and you'll see me explicitly correct the notion that an overview tab is not what everyone is asking for, and empathize with the desire for the feature of aggregated achievements between all characters:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/7510812/#Comment_7510812

Trying to treat this thread as a zero-sum game pitting different camps of players against each other doesn't help the discussion at all.

Bragerth

Lekjih wrote: »

Not on PTS so having to go off of what others are saying.
Good points of this system:
-Never have to Emp push again(1!!!1!11!!)
-Can take any character into a trifecta run and use the title on anyone. I am so excited to have Gryphon Handler on EVERYONE.
-Purchasing leads and furniture on any character.
-Can now leave my thief as a thief and my PvP toons as they are because they're not needing to earn their own titles. As a result, a lot of gear can be deconned and less armory slots are needed.
-A couple of characters can be deleted once their achievements are logged.
-PvP rank is still individual, yay!
-Master Angler and those trophy quests just became easier for those of us with a couple of old charcters

Bad points of this system:
-Can't get anymore music boxes, factotums? I also just really enjoy museum quests, they're a weird little stress relief for me.
-Seems map completion becomes account wide? That hurts my heart. Let me have something grindy on alts!
-People are talking as though quests on alts are autocompleted, but that wouldn't make sense with undaunted being tied to dungeon quests. If this is true, this is very upsetting. There are some beautiful quests in this game and my girls all have their own choices to make.
-The Saviour of Elsweyr achievement bugged out for me and never awarded the Xbox achievement. I'm going to have to rush through it before this update so it doesn't become impossible but I know I am not the only one that this has happened to.
-I don't like that if my main catches all but one fish, and an alt catches the last fish, the alt gets credit. I'd rather not keep track at all at that point.

Points that others have raised:
-"it doesn't make sense for 'character' to have access to 'title' because they haven't been there yet". Then don't equip it. These are your paper dolls and you get to choose how they're dressed, figuratively speaking~ Personally, I like this aspect as this opens more backstories for my paper dolls. I do understand the niggle that comes with this, but in the same way my chars can't ride certain mounts until they get to certain zones, this is just as easy to fix~
-"the economy is going to crash" Honestly, it won't. Most title buyers are first time buyers or want other collectibles like skins, mementos and mounts.
-"people will pretend they tanked/healed/dpsed content when really they healed/dpsed/tanked" they can do that anyway with respecs. Some also pretend they actually ran it instead of standing on the bridge or similar. This isn't a big issue, you find out very quickly if someone is faking content competence and can act accordingly as raid lead.

Overall I'm mostly excited, but really nervous that I'm about to lose some of my favourite content and replayability all at once.

Where does it say you can’t earn anymore more music boxes or factotums? Maybe they will convert them into the ui system of collections if that’s the case?

SeaUnicorn

silvereyes wrote: »

Trying to treat this thread as a zero-sum game pitting different camps of players against each other doesn't help the discussion at all.

Right. There definitely plenty solutions that would address concerns of both camps.

There are people who would like account-wide achievements just because they are forced to get certain achievements on different toons. Since I play support - my trial trifectas are basically on what healer class was meta that patch. So it is kind of hard to aggregate them all together and some classes rarely ever become meta supports.

There are people who like to get achievements on multiple classes. Like 30 times master angler or end game PVE DDs who like to get titles on multiple toons.

And the solution does not necessarily need to be how achievement are represented right. Step back for a second and think why exactly are you upset? It is not because you really want to have achievements per toon, but because it was the only incentive to replay content. That incentive does not need to be per-toon achievements. It actually makes sense that achievements are account wide because you achieve it not your toon. But at the same time there have to be some sort of incentives to relive the storyline quests, fishing, or getting trials done again. Those might be some rare items, some cosmetics or whatever have you. There are so many ways to address this concern that also do not interfere with account wide achievements solution.

Most ran trial nowadays is arguably vAS. Why? Clockwork poly and massive amounts of Chropium you get from running it over and over. This such a simple change that makes the trial desirable years after release. Is having 18 IRs a flex? May be, but not really. What if poly drop chance would increase when you get no death? Or you would get a special cooler looking poly? And then you can sell it for unreasonable price in case you have 1 already. And if someone would say "well has to be exclusive" - you can sell an IR carry for ludicrous amount of millions of gold already, so title is not exclusive, its just very expensive.

maximusrex45

Mephit wrote: »

ArgonianAustin wrote: »

I wish everything transferred over.

Can I ask why that is...

Do you only want to do things once? and want to be able to pick different characters / classes to do it depending on what you are enjoying at the time / which is "better"?

Would you be happier if you had one account wide character that could swap classes / skills as and when?

Just trying to understand the requirement.

Not that person, but I will say what I want out of Account Wide Achievements.

I don't necessarily want to only do things once, I have 8 characters made, all different races/factions/builds, and I have been playing through story in different ways to see the game, while my "main" has been going in release order. Many achievements are grindy and random, and I want to feel free to be able to play any character I want and still have anything they do progress the completion of achievements.

Where some players see Achievements as something their Character does, I see Achievements as something I the player does, and I don't see the need to have to redo them over and over. Holiday ones are a good example, they are time consuming, but there is nothing about them, other than the PvP event, that has any gameplay that becomes different based on my race/class/faction. Running through Breda's list of New Life tasks is worth doing to earn rewards and complete the achievements, but I don't see any replay value in that. As the system works now that also traps me on the character that has the most progress on it.

On the other side of this, I feel like some achievements, like Justice, Vampire, Werewolf are designed so that there would only be one character to do them, so I want to see that box checked for having done it on my account because it would be silly to infect, level up the skills, then cure all my characters twice just to complete that. I like completing things, and I want to see all the boxes completed. I also think it is cool to be able to build characters that can help me complete those boxes for my account, while another character might be less capable. I guess for me Achievements are more of a game knowledge thing than a character development thing.

Antiquities leads is a good example of how I would like achievements to work, no matter who I get the lead on I get credit for it on all my characters and can choose the best one to progress it.

I would not like and do not want one account wide character that would do everything. All my characters have their own style and story, I just don't personally attach achievements to that.

I will also say I share some concerns about some issues raised here. Achievement completion shouldn't change maps or lock out quests for individual characters.

One thing the current change on PTS doesn't seem to do is open up Achievement Furnishing Vendors to be accessible on every character once the achievement is complete on any character, this is the kind of QOL I would want from account wide achievements. I also think Eidetic Memory should be account wide, while I am OK with Skyshards and Mages Guild books being per character.

Reading through the forum here I think the hardest place to reach a compromise is sharing work across an account to complete an achievement. I don't think many people care if there are multiple ways to view and organize them, that seems important to a lot of people so if it can be done it should.

No system is going to be perfect, but I do hope they can make this better and come up with more of a compromise.

Gylzyn

I am broadly in favour of account-wide achievements and I am used to them from other MMOs I have played. This is because I would like to be able to see (and reap the benefits/rewards) of what I have achieved as a player. However, I had expected them to be a layer over and above character achievements, not replacing those entirely.

There are some achievements that I would not want to repeat on multiple characters; for me that would be things like the monster trophies, all of the zone quests etc. There are some rewards that I would like to be able to consolidate together; for me that would be things like the having the vampire achievements on one alt, the werewolf achievements on another alt, the healer achievements on my healer, etc.

I would miss the ability to track some progress and the associated achievements on a character basis. There have been many examples already given in the thread. Some that "stand out" for me personally are:

• Not getting undaunted points from undaunted achievements
• Not being able to get multiple rewards like the music box
• Not being able to track progress of holiday events if I wanted to get it next time around on an alt
• How would I get the Dragonguard Sanctum bonus on multiple characters if I can't repeat the achievements

For me, one of the main benefits of account wide achievements is for those meta ones that have a reward attached. As things stand at the moment, I can only get the Fang Lair personality if I have completed all of the listed achievements under Fang Lair Challenger on one character. If I have completed all of the achievements but across (say) two characters, because that is what I chose to play, or that is what was needed by the group/guild at the time, I would like to still have the reward because I (the player) completed all of the required achievements but across two characters. This does not mean that I would want the progress of the individual characters to be lost, however, and I am in favour of having achievements at both an account and character level - and optional for those that want it.

Wolf_Eye

I don't run trials or stuff and I could care less about achievements (I don't track them nor do I even pay attention to how many "points" I have).

I just want to be able to repeat Museum quests because I enjoy going out and collecting and experiencing the stories and lore of it. I can't even say I do it for the "reward", because many Museum quests give collectibles that can't be earned a second time (the Elsweyr mural, the Murkmire stone tablet thingy, etc). And right now, in the PTS, you are permanently locked out of that experience. Especially the Solitude quest, which has a cool story where you go to a secret auction and when you complete the collection you get a special little party event in the courtyard.

I get that not everyone cares about story or lore or even characters and just wants achievements, achievements, titles, and gear drops, but story is LITERALLY the whole reason I play an Elder Scrolls game. It is literally the fun of replaying a storyline, not the rewards or achievements you get from it.

That is why I am upset. Things that I find enjoyable are being taken away from me, and they have absolutely nothing to do with the achievements themselves but rather that some things are getting lost in the mix.

tomofhyrule

RavenXIV wrote: »

Lekjih wrote: »

Not on PTS so having to go off of what others are saying.
Good points of this system:
-Never have to Emp push again(1!!!1!11!!)
-Can take any character into a trifecta run and use the title on anyone. I am so excited to have Gryphon Handler on EVERYONE.
-Purchasing leads and furniture on any character.
-Can now leave my thief as a thief and my PvP toons as they are because they're not needing to earn their own titles. As a result, a lot of gear can be deconned and less armory slots are needed.
-A couple of characters can be deleted once their achievements are logged.
-PvP rank is still individual, yay!
-Master Angler and those trophy quests just became easier for those of us with a couple of old charcters

Bad points of this system:
-Can't get anymore music boxes, factotums? I also just really enjoy museum quests, they're a weird little stress relief for me.
-Seems map completion becomes account wide? That hurts my heart. Let me have something grindy on alts!
-People are talking as though quests on alts are autocompleted, but that wouldn't make sense with undaunted being tied to dungeon quests. If this is true, this is very upsetting. There are some beautiful quests in this game and my girls all have their own choices to make.
-The Saviour of Elsweyr achievement bugged out for me and never awarded the Xbox achievement. I'm going to have to rush through it before this update so it doesn't become impossible but I know I am not the only one that this has happened to.
-I don't like that if my main catches all but one fish, and an alt catches the last fish, the alt gets credit. I'd rather not keep track at all at that point.

Points that others have raised:
-"it doesn't make sense for 'character' to have access to 'title' because they haven't been there yet". Then don't equip it. These are your paper dolls and you get to choose how they're dressed, figuratively speaking~ Personally, I like this aspect as this opens more backstories for my paper dolls. I do understand the niggle that comes with this, but in the same way my chars can't ride certain mounts until they get to certain zones, this is just as easy to fix~
-"the economy is going to crash" Honestly, it won't. Most title buyers are first time buyers or want other collectibles like skins, mementos and mounts.
-"people will pretend they tanked/healed/dpsed content when really they healed/dpsed/tanked" they can do that anyway with respecs. Some also pretend they actually ran it instead of standing on the bridge or similar. This isn't a big issue, you find out very quickly if someone is faking content competence and can act accordingly as raid lead.

Overall I'm mostly excited, but really nervous that I'm about to lose some of my favourite content and replayability all at once.

Where does it say you can’t earn anymore more music boxes or factotums? Maybe they will convert them into the ui system of collections if that’s the case?

I think the factotums are actually still working, but the quest is now: Go get the first piece, congratulations you get it! People who have tested though said that the Bard's College wasn't offering the quest after the instruments were found anymore, so the music box is one and done.

The problem with making those collectables (which was a source of complaints with the door when Blackwood launched) is that they can only be placed once per house. While that would fix the music box problem (unless someone wanted multiples), many people use groups of Factotums to test AoE builds.

Oliviander

Reading many posts about the discussion and collecting ideas how it could be done better
I made a draft for a possible implemetation of accountwide achievements and titles
that shouldn't hurt anybody.

it can be read in this post:

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/597289/

And I made a poll if you would like it that way

It would be great if I got some response
THX

willymancer69

Parasaurolophus wrote: »

Csleia wrote: »

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

@Tandor Thanks for the ping. This thread is being watched closely for constructive feedback around Account-Wide Achievements.

We understand there are mixed opinions on this issue. Many of you have taken time to list your concerns and possible solutions. The team is reviewing these and analytics from PTS. We welcome any feedback that the team can take under consideration during this period.

Also, we will continue to take feedback beyond this point as well. As always, we just ask for constructive feedback as this is part of the process. Thanks all.

It's not an opinion that trifectas are being deleted on our alts. Does zos have any concept of what they are doing?

It's my opinion that endgame will die. The backbone of eso endgame is replayability and people with experience helping others without. Don't take away all incentive for experienced players to redo challenges especially ones that can take months and hundreds of hours like trifectas.

It's my observation that progs all over discord are already dying RIGHT NOW, as people who already have trifectas completed on alts no longer have a reason to invest hundreds of hours of their time if you're just going to delete the trifectas on their alts next patch.

Sorry but no. It was the endgame community that asked for this change and is generally happy with it. It's unlikely that someone makes triple achievements just to get them on a certain character again.

I'm happy to provide some insight here.

I am one of these players-- someone who's motivation to continue playing the game is being part of progression groups for title clears on classes or a role that I don't currently have the clear on. Building up a new character on a class I'm not familiar with and investing the time and effort to bring that to trifecta level over a significant period of time is what I enjoy in this game.

I understand and respect that maybe you are not in this group, which is totally okay, but many endgame players are and their voices should be heard.

With this new change, many of us don't see a reason to play between new raid releases. This affects first time progression groups, who normally try to include a wide breadth of experience. With this change, many progression groups will be 10+ people without the title or people score pushing the content (a smaller group of people than those just going for multiple trifecta clears). Not only that, but in the interim of this change, I have seen half of all existing progs myself or that friends are in canceled because people no longer want to be in a prog they don't get a "reward" from (in this context, a title on an alt toon).

Again, I want to emphasize, it is not just trifecta players being affected by this change. Those interested in getting unique achievements on any alt characters are. However, it is important to clarify the trifecta group of players being affected.

tmbrinks

JamesForums wrote: »

I created a forum account just to provide affirmative feedback on this.

I am a very heavy player who has spent a lot of time on my main. When I consider creating a second main, the idea of having to re-earn 30,000 achievement points seems so overwhelming its not worth it. So, I get stuck in the same class and feel burned out.

This would allow people like me (who have a super high play time on one main) to feel more comfortable branching out with a new class. We would be able to continue our achievement hunting without having to start over. This is a wonderful, roundabout way to appease many people (again, myself included) who want a class change token.

Please keep this feature as the Update moves from the PTS to the public.

Thank you for everything you do as always.

Honest question. Is your issue solved if there is a full account achievements that unlocks all the relevant titles/momentos/furnishings for your account and shows the combined achievements of all your characters?

tomofhyrule

Salmeyna wrote: »

Having another tab for achievements on account is not real accountwide achievements, and just in these thread there were already plenty of people trying telling the same. No, it's not a compromise. An optionality is a compromise, a simple tab to see what you already know is just a punch in the face for those who got their hopes up.
While i don't want to invalidate people who don't want this awesome function implemented, stop acting like noone wants it. Heck, even polls started by players show that the majority wants ACCOUNTWIDE ACHIEVEMENTS. Not an overview tab.
Also stop speaking for the whole endgame community. People like me have to speak up because if we won't, others might assume you speak for us. There are plenty of people in the endgame community who love this. In fact, out of all of my guildies we talked about it with, only a single one voiced his displeasure.
I just checked this topic, and while those being happy about it mostly just posted 1, maybe 2 times, several of the naysayers repeat their opinion over and over again, blowing the relations out of proportions.
It's fine if you or your friends don't want it, or want it to be different. But stop assuming everyone hates something you hate.
It's important to me that the devs monitoring this thread know that there is plenty of support behind them in the current design. If there is a need to take another look at the system, that's fine, just please, don't postpone it, and don't water it down to a simple overview tab. Please. I don't pretend to speak for the endgame community, i don't pretend to speak for the majority, but i can speak for plenty of players like me, who are playing since year one, and love this feature.

So, if there were two tabs, an 'Account' and a 'Character,' would that solve your issue? Or would you need to see Character achievements completely removed?

I picture a system where all characters can contribute to the account wide one. Let's take the March of Sacrifices challenger as an example:
Character 1 does the speedrun and character 2 gets the nodeath. You go in later on character 1 and do the hard mode.
After all of that, you unlock the Beast personality and your account tab says you got the challenger achievement. However, character 1's page shows that they did the speedrun and HM, and character 2's page shows they did the nodeath. If you later get the nodeath on character 1, it pops that character 1 got the challenger, but your account already had it.

Would this be an acceptable compromise? Because that's what a lot of people are suggesting. And if not, many of us who do support a system like this don't understand how being able to look at character 1 or character 2's achievements will be a net negative. It certainly allows for replayability since achievement hunters can see that character 1 still needed something, but getting it is only giving a character-based achievement since the account already unlocked it.

renne

Alendrin wrote: »

I didn't read the whole thread so I may be repeating but on the PTS I am getting achievements I did not have.

Example: After logging on two characters I got hero of clockwork city, because between two characters I had all 5 of the sub tasks but not all of them on either character.

I also got a battlegrounds achievement where the points earned on two characters, neither of which had the achievement, were combined to give the achievement.

Not sure this is working as intended.

On the other hand, I hope this is working as intended. Because this means those stupid achievements for monster parts where I have a few collected on miscellaneous toons that I've never been able to collect on my main will consolidate.

...Or knowing my luck this won't be included.

LethalCrowe187

While I really like the concept of account-wide achievements, I think - for one - it should be optional. I say this as someone who has desperately wanted them for years. However, logging in and seeing ALL story content unlocked and 'achieved' by another character was borderline disheartening.

I like having account-wide achievements for things like the "kill a certain number" and the monster trophy trackers. But when it comes to specific story content, like the main storyline and zone storylines, it makes no sense for new characters to have those achievements already. I understand that from a dev perspective doing all or none might be easier and generally more realistic but from a player pov it borderline ruins replayability for me. If I have completed Summerset on one character, I don't want to have every achievement unlocked for the main story on a new character. What reason would I have to go back and do it again?

Trials, dungeons, and harder content I wouldn't mind keeping the account-wide - once you've done it once - congrats you've done it. Killed all these things? Congrats? Done the 30 dailies? Awesome use of multiple characters to rack that total up.

I believe, wholeheartedly, that story content needs to be separated from account-wide achievements. If I log in once this goes live and everything is done on the character I am currently re-questing on, I am going to be devastated.

AlnilamE

Parasaurolophus wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

Csleia wrote: »

please don't take away the trifectas we got on our alts
please don't take away the master anglers we got on our alts
please don't take away the emperor we got on our alts

this game thrives on replayability, you are overwriting repeated achievements with the first character that completed them

people do not repeat achievements like these on the same character they make a new one to experience it again, this update is deleting all record of these and preventing future replayability

Agreed, and I’m curious why a for profit gaming company would want to nerf replayability in such a dramatic fashion. I’m no corporate accountant, but this looks like a major financial loss in the making to me.

I reserve the right to be mistaken, however ... Are there many people who strive to get triple achievements specifically for a character, because although getting it is for a specific character? How many people go through quests for the second or third character again? I do not like to talk about the majority or the minority, as this is nothing more than speculation. But I just don't know these people. Usually people tend to get all the achievements on one character or complete all the quests. This is the meaning of the main character. Therefore, replay value is clearly not about getting the same achievements on several alts.

I have Gold and Silver completed on 2 characters. I have another 2 working on Silver. I have the Daedric Generals achievement on 4 characters. I have the "loot 1000 chests" achievement on 7 characters.

There is someone on the forums that got Master Angler on 12 characters. It's fun to redo some of the achievements.

The "Loot 1000 chests" in particular was very helpful when I was leveling antiquities on alts because I was working towards 2 goals at the same time.

SerafinaWaterstar

. It's fun to redo some of the achievements.

That is the crux.

Quite a lot of us actually enjoy this.

AlnilamE

skyrimfantasy wrote: »

So with quests auto-completing on an alt, not only do we lose the ability to play a quest again, we loose the reward of something like the museum quests as noted earlier in comments. How about the nirnhoned item you get as a reward in the Crag quest line, do we no longer get that? Do we also lose any skill points an alt would have earned on a quest? This would make leveling alts tiresome.

You can repeat quests and get the quest reward on as many characters as you like. You just won't get an achievement for it.

SerafinaWaterstar

AlnilamE wrote: »

skyrimfantasy wrote: »

So with quests auto-completing on an alt, not only do we lose the ability to play a quest again, we loose the reward of something like the museum quests as noted earlier in comments. How about the nirnhoned item you get as a reward in the Crag quest line, do we no longer get that? Do we also lose any skill points an alt would have earned on a quest? This would make leveling alts tiresome.

You can repeat quests and get the quest reward on as many characters as you like. You just won't get an achievement for it.

Not that simple, actually. People finding if do certain quests once, you can’t do them in another character. Or finding maps completed before character set foot in the zone.

Also, please can people understand that, especially on consoles, the achievements are the only way in game to measure progress - there is no equivalent individual character journal.

So it’s not necessarily about the shinies, but just working out what your different characters have/haven’t done.

With the way this is going, I sadly see spreadsheets in my future. Or, equally sadly, feeling far less inclined to play the game at all.

Tandor

AlnilamE wrote: »

skyrimfantasy wrote: »

So with quests auto-completing on an alt, not only do we lose the ability to play a quest again, we loose the reward of something like the museum quests as noted earlier in comments. How about the nirnhoned item you get as a reward in the Crag quest line, do we no longer get that? Do we also lose any skill points an alt would have earned on a quest? This would make leveling alts tiresome.

You can repeat quests and get the quest reward on as many characters as you like. You just won't get an achievement for it.

That's not the case with some quests as they are not offered or else they don't run properly once another character has already completed them, as per the examples given in this thread.