PTS Update 33 - Feedback Thread for Account Wide Achievements

Raevenglass

[/quote]

I reserve the right to be mistaken, however ... Are there many people who strive to get triple achievements specifically for a character, because although getting it is for a specific character? How many people go through quests for the second or third character again? I do not like to talk about the majority or the minority, as this is nothing more than speculation. But I just don't know these people. Usually people tend to get all the achievements on one character or complete all the quests. This is the meaning of the main character. Therefore, replay value is clearly not about getting the same achievements on several alts.[/quote]

There are. One of the great things about ESO is that you can play it however suits you. Some of us LIKE getting achievements on different characters and classes. For some of us, the character RP is part of the experience. I would like the option to continue playing my toons without sharing achievements.

I understand some players feel differently. (Although saying something like - I can't get Godslayer on other toons because I am only allowed to bring a MagCro in my trial group - sounds like an issue with your group more than a justification for account-wide achievements for everyone.)

I really hope ZOS will strongly consider the opt-in option for this.

And to toss in the anecdotal evidence people like so much - I don't know anyone in my 5 guilds that is for this change.

kargen27

I am firmly in the let us opt for account or character achievements camp.

What I really do not want is for achievement goals done on one character to advance the achievement on another character. I think the achievement should be earned by only one characters actions. I need Knotted Heart on my main for the Nature Collector achievement. I have slaughtered many a Lurcher to that end. I know at least one of my alternate characters has stumbled across the Knotted Heart and yeah I swore a bit when it happened. I don't want that applied to my main though. She will eventually kill the right Lurcher and I will rejoice. Might even celebrate with an adult beverage.
Share the achievements once finished. I don't really like the idea but since so many do then sure let achievements be shared. It will make people happy. That shouldn't wreck the game for those that play as I do though. Let us continue to enjoy the game as we are now.

IronWooshu

silvereyes wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

silvereyes wrote: »

I will say, I'm very happy they at least let you discover things again on new characters. That is working as expected for me.

Well, this proves that they didn't do it for performance reasons. Looks like ZOS is still tracking individual achievements... they are just hiding them from us in the data.

Did your character get the 'delve completed' achievement popup when you cleared it?

No. The delve boss was already marked as completed as soon as I entered the delve. I very much hope that this is not intentional.

This is very unfortunate and it makes the account wide achievements even more terrible.

peacenote

Pet wrote: »

Parasaurolophus wrote: »

Csleia wrote: »

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

@Tandor Thanks for the ping. This thread is being watched closely for constructive feedback around Account-Wide Achievements.

We understand there are mixed opinions on this issue. Many of you have taken time to list your concerns and possible solutions. The team is reviewing these and analytics from PTS. We welcome any feedback that the team can take under consideration during this period.

Also, we will continue to take feedback beyond this point as well. As always, we just ask for constructive feedback as this is part of the process. Thanks all.

It's not an opinion that trifectas are being deleted on our alts. Does zos have any concept of what they are doing?

It's my opinion that endgame will die. The backbone of eso endgame is replayability and people with experience helping others without. Don't take away all incentive for experienced players to redo challenges especially ones that can take months and hundreds of hours like trifectas.

It's my observation that progs all over discord are already dying RIGHT NOW, as people who already have trifectas completed on alts no longer have a reason to invest hundreds of hours of their time if you're just going to delete the trifectas on their alts next patch.

Sorry but no. It was the endgame community that asked for this change and is generally happy with it. It's unlikely that someone makes triple achievements just to get them on a certain character again.

Yeah no lmao, nobody in the endgame community asked for this. A huge part of the endgame community is having trifecta titles on numerous toons, or seeing that sweet x8 or w/e on Pithka's addon for different tris. Literally nobody from the endgame community asked for this, and you know it.

Honestly, I think what makes this complicated is that it is both.

Pro Account-Wide Only:

There are lots of people who are sick of not being able to play on their mains, due to raid composition needs and the constant re-balancing/nerfing of combat that ZOS does, and therefore support the idea to essentially obliterate any thought of a "main" by combining all of the achievements. As a healer where trials only have two spots for my role, and rumors are flying that this can go down to one in many cases, and zero for dungeon groups... I understand this. I do fear a day when healers are no longer welcomed in content, and I get kind of angry at team mates and friends when they talk about ways to clear content without a healer, because in a very real way they are excluding ME, since this is the role I am best at. Now that there is an armory, I can choose to create a DPS or tank spec on my healer, to make myself more viable, but I won't magically be able to perform at the needed level to keep my place in prog on an alternate role. In my current trial group, my main has been shelved in favor of my warden healer, because that's the class we needed. So now my end game achievements are split between the two healers. I understand this view and I believe it is a valid struggle. That said, I chose to take the road of not caring, and letting go of my wish that my "main" earned everything first or must have everything. I no longer worry about it. If I get the clear on one character, anyone I'd like to play with will give me a shot. If I'm excluded from something, I'll either go get the achievement or go play with more reasonable people.

Related, but separate, is the belief that with this simplification of achievements, guilds and content organizers won't be able to insist that the character you are playing with has to have the achievement, and therefore it will make end game a friendlier, less toxic place for players who have done the content but now want to bring a different character. Gatekeeping will be reduced because more folks will have the requisite achievements. Personally, I feel this is a false hope. Inability to rely on character-specific achievements isn't going to keep people from trying to vet group members because it's still all about time and efficiency. Other methods will surface. Maybe guilds will require videos of your clears. Maybe they will require a more robust set of "test" runs. Maybe, with even less in-game tools to gauge who is suited for what content, end game will fall apart completely because too many groups will struggle and fail and take too long to get to the content they said they'd try to run, because too many team members are sub-par. I am not sure but I do think that this isn't a good reason to go to account-wide achievements. It won't solve toxicity. All it will do is generate dumber and/or more intrusive barriers to entry.

Pro Character Specific:

On the other hand, there are lots of people who go back to get achievements on each character, and those folks play a big part in filling gaps in rosters in end game. It is TOUGH to find 12 people to dedicate enough time and effort to tackle this content. It gets harder and harder the more time investment is required. All of us have limited time in life. That's a fact. While I try to be a good community member, I absolutely will prioritize running content where I still need something (anything!) over content I have no reason to do again. In fact, when helping friends farm or achieve something, I always check and will get excited if one of my alts can join and grab an achievement too. It's more fun that way. So I am absolutely sure that other folks who now have that little extra reward/recognition of logging accomplishment on a specific toon removed will re-evaluate how they are spending that time, and will pivot to something they do need. So many folks set little goals for themselves that are just for fun - "I'm going to run a marathon," "I'm going to take a bar-tending class." "I'm going to get "Tick-Tock Tormentor" on all my characters." It's just a thing humans do. And the removal of the option to try and get things per character (and have it tracked easily in game, with the yay! experience of an achievement popping) will reduce the pool of players. Also, and maybe more importantly, it will specifically reduce the pool of more experienced players who have done the content and are willing to teach others and help newer folks because they also can get a clear on another character while they do it.

Additionally, there are many folks who have been with this game for many years and have spent a lot of time pursuing character specific achievements. This change, in one patch application, obliterates all that progress and time. Now, I would say that this is not a compelling argument to ZOS, as we all saw how well the vMA weapons arguments went, but that was just one arena and reward type, and this is potentially all areas of the game for many characters to players. It represents even more lost/wasted time, on a much larger scale. Having that taken away IS game-breaking, and will cause people to quit. Up to eight years of your life in this game will have been erased. Yes, it's a game, and it's a hobby, but it will definitely give a lot of people the push to walk away and do something else. As I've pointed out in another comment, a game that makes its living off of nostalgia on the ESO franchise should not underestimate how important these little records are to these same players. It's a big deal. And, humans tend to over-value sunk costs (https://neurofied.com/sunk-cost-fallacy/), often to their detriment. How I think this applies here is that the amount of time spent on curating character history and obtaining achievements per character will seem magnified to those players, which will cause anger that doesn't seem rational to newer folks. And it's going to be strongest for folks that pursued end game achievements, because they take the most time and effort. If you spent 8 years getting trial achievements on every character and all of those dates and that journey is wiped away... trust me, it's emotionally sickening to people. It's why people stay in bad relationships. Because this is an innate trait of the human brain, while some may find it silly, it isn't easily overcome. We all do it, at one time or another.

Btw, account-wide achievements won't eliminate carries. If anything they'll increase the cost, because people will need them only once and there will be less folks around willing to help fill the groups to do them.

Anyway, the question is, for end game specifically, will the players more willing to jump on alternate toons because FOMO is gone outweigh the amount of players that stop re-running content or all-out quit because their history has been erased? I believe the answer is no. Losing even a small portion of experienced players re-running content will likely make end game content harder to execute. Less "new" people will have good experiences. AND people will cycle through and move on from the content faster, ultimately making it harder for everyone to find people to run the content with in the long run. Therefore I feel it's not good for the game, even though I personally am one of the people who would benefit on the surface. I'd rather live with the fact that my main doesn't have all of the achievements than see this change, as-is, go live. Either way, I tried to capture the end game perspectives I've run across in case it's helpful.

silvereyes

I have to say, the more I test on PTS, the more I feel like these aggregated achievements that I was granted just for logging in were gained by some kind of exploit. It feels like cheating. I don't feel proud of any of them, and now I can't even earn them properly on my main.

I think I would feel differently if the migration of achievements just took the progress of whichever character was furthest along and copied it to the account. I wouldn't feel great, due to the loss of replay value, but at least I would feel like I was picking up with where I left off before the patch.

However, this nonsense of merging all characters together at the time of login is awful. I've been whittling away at some of these achievements for years on my main, and I was fairly close to completing them. But now, I get a ton of them granted to me just for logging in!

It's like running a marathon and then, in the last mile, some folks grab you, stuff you in a van and drive you past the finish line. I don't feel like I earned it, and I'm pretty pissed off at those people in the van.

silvereyes

I also have to just say that ZOS seems to be acting a bit hypocritical this update. For years, they have denied vociferous player requests to convert rewards at the time of update based on what the player had done in the past. But ZOS has always fallen back on a simple excuse: your rewards are based on what the rules were at the time you earned them. You want the new rewards? Go earn them after the update.

• They didn't upgrade our gear to VR16 when Imperial City came out.
• They didn't grant Undaunted busts and trophies when Homestead was released.
• They didn't upgrade our vMA and vDSA weapons to perfected versions when Greymoor changed the reward structure for veteran arenas.
• They didn't scale our existing Champion Points to the new XP curve when CP 2.0 was released.

But now, suddenly, they are going to start handing out achievement progress for free based on rules that didn't apply when that progress was earned?

Dolgubon

Parasaurolophus wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

Csleia wrote: »

please don't take away the trifectas we got on our alts
please don't take away the master anglers we got on our alts
please don't take away the emperor we got on our alts

this game thrives on replayability, you are overwriting repeated achievements with the first character that completed them

people do not repeat achievements like these on the same character they make a new one to experience it again, this update is deleting all record of these and preventing future replayability

Agreed, and I’m curious why a for profit gaming company would want to nerf replayability in such a dramatic fashion. I’m no corporate accountant, but this looks like a major financial loss in the making to me.

I reserve the right to be mistaken, however ... Are there many people who strive to get triple achievements specifically for a character, because although getting it is for a specific character? How many people go through quests for the second or third character again? I do not like to talk about the majority or the minority, as this is nothing more than speculation. But I just don't know these people. Usually people tend to get all the achievements on one character or complete all the quests. This is the meaning of the main character. Therefore, replay value is clearly not about getting the same achievements on several alts.

I've done Caldwell's silver and gold on multiple toons. I've done two trial trifectas on two toons, and one three times. While I do have a main, consider one of my other toons as my second main. For some people, this won't change replay value, but for many others it will. The poll about this in the general section of the forums has 25% saying they don't want global achievements, and a further 15% saying some should be global and others shouldn't be. While that's a minority, it's a pretty significantly sized minority. I know forum polls are a bad way to determine overall player sentiment on topics, especially with such general options, but it's slightly better than pure speculation

Erorah

While I am admittedly an Achievement-Wh***, I would rather NOT see this implemented as is.
Should it be optional? Not really.

What it SHOULD do, ONLY, is allow any character on a single account to buy something from the Achievement Vendors, regardless of which Character got the achievement. You open the dialogue with the Achievement Vendor, and an Achievement Check should take place. Then instead of seeing RED, Character Locked items, I can buy them freely with my Decorator, who by the way, is atrocious at DPS...

Instead I cycle through several characters every day, searching for the one that can buy the SuchandSuch item from SoandSo...

Just let me buy things. Leave the rest alone

fizl101

Another voice for please give a separate view for the consolidated achievements rather than a single achievement view

Particularly, I want to do all quests and exploring on each character. I rely on the map to tell me where I have or havent been. My main has completed all quests, dolmens etc in all zones, so everything will be flagged as done which would not help me at all.

Titles I personally dont care if they are shared, but the achievement should at least pop if you got it on a character who hasnt done it before

Sarannah

fizl101 wrote: »

Particularly, I want to do all quests and exploring on each character. I rely on the map to tell me where I have or havent been. My main has completed all quests, dolmens etc in all zones, so everything will be flagged as done which would not help me at all.

I too rely on the map to see what I have completed on any of my 18 characters. All of which are at different progression points. I use the map to continue where I left of when I stopped playing them for a while. Completion should not be tied to achievements. When we complete something we should get the achievement, but when we have the achievement it should not be automatically counted as completed. This would destroy the game for anyone with multiple characters, like me. So please untie completion from achievements.

Not to mention it would be strange if any veteran started a new character, and everything in the game would already be shown as completed. This would have a seriously negative impact on the game itself, and on the replayability of the game. And would make no sense what-so-ever.

PS: Other than that, I am all for accountwide achievements!

Araneae6537

wolfie1.0. wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

Comrade_Ogilvy wrote: »

If the motivation for doing account-wide achievements and in this way is to reduce the size of account data on the server then please consider making the current character based achievements client side only - that way you get your per account data reduction and we get to keep the existing system which has reliably and enjoyably served us for many years.

Out of curiosity, where is this notion coming from? I've seen a few players mention it, but there was nothing in the patch notes about their motivation for converting to account wide achievements. Did they state that it was for performance reasons on some other social media?

No they havn't indicated this. This is an assumption that is being made

I certainly can’t speak for everyone, but it seems to me, with the manner in which it’s being introduced that it must be for some benefit to ZOS, such as saving space. Otherwise, why not introduce an additional layer where achievements can be viewed by account or by character?

Personally, I’m neutral regarding titles, but so what if a lowbie sports Godslayer for instance? Couldn’t someone buy a carry for their low level character now? I don’t think you can gauge a player’s skill without running with them, some idea from viewing a log.

I don’t think most people would object to making the “kill x of y” or “collect all the RNG trophies” accountwide. At least I view that as one of the only positives as now I can finally unlock those dyes.

But story, dungeon and trial achievements (and probably additional that I’m not thinking of) should still be tracked per character. If they are additionally tracked per account and you can earn challenger achievements that way, I have no problem with that. I don’t want to miss my little achievement pop-ups and records of my characters progress. Couldn’t we have the best of both worlds?

I am well aware that in many MMORPG games that achievements are accountwide but that doesn’t mean it’s better in all ways and I’ve heard players miss their regular achievements. More than that, a game such as GW2 has always been that way so nothing was taken from players (and as I recall, with the story journal, there were other ways to track a character’s individual progress). Finally, there was what was gained by being accountwide; in GW2, achievement points went toward unlocking cool rewards, buffs for the whole account, even store currency. In contrast, achievement points are completely meaningless in ESO. Beyond the cosmetic unlocks, the achievements are a measure of character progression and just for fun, to make dying to slaughterfish not so bad by awarding with an achievement for it, etc.

Achievements are not the sort of thing that one needs to complete on any or all of ones characters, but are an optional reward to track and chase for those who enjoy it. I’m all for adding features for those who want to engage with the feature differently and track by account, but why take away a feature that so many enjoy and harms no one?

Wolf_Eye

I am an idiot.

I came back here specifically to state this very important fact and to give my deepest apologies.

When I was testing the Precursor quest the first time around, I made a mistake and didn't immediately realize it. After @tim77 mentioned they could get multiples of the Precursor, I went back to test it out again and I was indeed able to get a duplicate of the Precursor. There are now two sitting in my house.

And as tim said, it was a very short quest; on the toon I used (who was brand sparkly new), I was sent out to complete the first piece (even though the Precursor was kind of already chilling there, fully completed). When I got back and put in the "first piece" the Apostle was all like "Oh! you finished him!!". And then I got sent on the "final quest" and got to keep the Precursor, even though I had already completed the Precursor before.

I didn't mean to screw up the first time around, but I did, and it was important for me to come back and let you all know this. I am extremely sorry. For all intents and purposes, it appears we can get multiple Precursors still.

I did go back to Solitude to double check the Bard's College Museum quest, but even on new characters I cannot find any way to even start the quest. The bard does not have a quest marker and won't give any quests to me no matter how much I talk to him, and the instruments are already placed in the museum. So unless anyone has figured out a workaround, it really is the case that you can no longer get multiples of the Solitude music box.

I also can't seem to find the riddle book for the Bard's College, Nel's Hidden Loves, anywhere, so this might also be permanently unattainable on alts.

proprio.meb16_ESO

I was generally in favour of new achievement system and don't care much about titles and such, but now i'm worried about the outcome on questing.

If a quest need achievement to progress then that achievement should not be made account wide. That should be plain logic... every quest whose steps rely on the status of an achievement would in the best case feel weird (like the ones already pointed out), and could be broken in the worst on subsequent or parallel playthroughs.
Whenever there's a quest<->achievement link it's probably not the case to make those achievements become global, unless they're carefully reworked and/or double checked to ensure they're still working as intended.
Also if i start a new char and desire to redo some questline, i'd like to taste them again fully, not get them skipped to their end or, worse, find out they're broken due to my previous play (could a "reset quest" option help here? or maybe it could make things just worse?)

I still remember the issues with wrothgar museum pieces... i kept that quest unfinished for months because it was linked to an achievement, with items fulfilling some of the achv steps which couldn't be obtained anymore... maybe these kind of quests are not that many, yet i'm a little worried now.

SerafinaWaterstar

KMarble wrote: »

tomofhyrule wrote: »

silvereyes wrote: »

majulook wrote: »

2. Antiquity's Lead Drops affected by this or any part of the Antiquity system?

I haven't noticed, but since they are RNG drops from repeatable activities like killing things and harvesting nodes, I imagine probably not. I would recommend testing interactable leads, though, like the Ring of the Pale Order lead in Markarth.

Edit: I did read that some of the achievements for Antiquities don't yield XP after they've been earned once, though, so in that respect, leveling those skill lines will be moderately harder.

This is a good point. Antiquities is already extremely grindy to level up, and earning antiquity achievements really helped that.

We already had the problem of alts not getting the zone purples to help out. Now we can't get achievements to help either? Are we only expected to have one antiquarian (read: one character with the chest passive) per account?

The more I think about it, the more it seems that alt chars are being reduced to alter egos of the main character. Which, frankly, reduces the need for more than one character (at least for me).

But why? Why do this? After so many years of having various characters?

What are they thinking?!

Jaraal

SerafinaWaterstar wrote: »

KMarble wrote: »

tomofhyrule wrote: »

silvereyes wrote: »

majulook wrote: »

2. Antiquity's Lead Drops affected by this or any part of the Antiquity system?

I haven't noticed, but since they are RNG drops from repeatable activities like killing things and harvesting nodes, I imagine probably not. I would recommend testing interactable leads, though, like the Ring of the Pale Order lead in Markarth.

Edit: I did read that some of the achievements for Antiquities don't yield XP after they've been earned once, though, so in that respect, leveling those skill lines will be moderately harder.

This is a good point. Antiquities is already extremely grindy to level up, and earning antiquity achievements really helped that.

We already had the problem of alts not getting the zone purples to help out. Now we can't get achievements to help either? Are we only expected to have one antiquarian (read: one character with the chest passive) per account?

The more I think about it, the more it seems that alt chars are being reduced to alter egos of the main character. Which, frankly, reduces the need for more than one character (at least for me).

But why? Why do this? After so many years of having various characters?

What are they thinking?!

Since alts will no longer have a purpose, perhaps they're hoping people will delete them by the thousands to free up data storage space? Seems logical to me.... who knows? The only thing we know for sure is that they have not and don't seem to be in any hurry to tell us why they are making such a fundamental change to how the game has worked since the beginning. So all we can really do is speculate.

SerafinaWaterstar

Seeing as I won’t be deleting any of my charscters but will be heavily relying on outside spreadsheets to monitor character progress - maybe its a secret ploy by Microsoft to sell more Office/Excel packages……….🤨🤔🤣

RaddlemanNumber7

I just wondered why there's still a "Character" section in the achievements tab. None the achievements listed under "Character" are character specific.

Danikat

This is making me realise I track progress very differently to a lot of people, maybe because I'm used to games where achievements are account wide and once you've got them once you can't get them again. (Or games which don't have achievements at all.)

I almost never look at the achievement menu, except if I want an achievement reward and I need to see which character is closest to getting it (or has already got it for things like furnishings). I keep track of their individual progress by using the map markers and the quests available, the skill lines they've levelled and things like that, and since none of that is going to change I can't see this having an impact on how I play my various characters. The achievements are just a little tick box that appears periodically. I actually use an addon to make the notifications smaller to get them out of the way because I found it annoying when I was trying to see the resolution of a quest or whatever and the screen was full of mess telling me I've done what I know I just did.

As long as the content itself isn't automatically completed on all your characters, which as far as I've seen isn't the case, this isn't going to stop me wanting to repeat things.

Having said that I'm also not opposed to the idea of letting players see both what their account has done and what each character has done, since it does appear to still be tracked individually. Or simply making achievement rewards account-wide but keeping the achievement notifications character specific.

Saieden

Danikat wrote: »

This is making me realise I track progress very differently to a lot of people, maybe because I'm used to games where achievements are account wide and once you've got them once you can't get them again. (Or games which don't have achievements at all.)

I almost never look at the achievement menu, except if I want an achievement reward and I need to see which character is closest to getting it (or has already got it for things like furnishings). I keep track of their individual progress by using the map markers and the quests available, the skill lines they've levelled and things like that, and since none of that is going to change I can't see this having an impact on how I play my various characters. The achievements are just a little tick box that appears periodically. I actually use an addon to make the notifications smaller to get them out of the way because I found it annoying when I was trying to see the resolution of a quest or whatever and the screen was full of mess telling me I've done what I know I just did.

As long as the content itself isn't automatically completed on all your characters, which as far as I've seen isn't the case, this isn't going to stop me wanting to repeat things.

Having said that I'm also not opposed to the idea of letting players see both what their account has done and what each character has done, since it does appear to still be tracked individually. Or simply making achievement rewards account-wide but keeping the achievement notifications character specific.

A big one for me also is that I track personal progression, specifically for dungeons and trials, via the achievements, or more specifically, add ons that use achievements to show which vet clears, speedruns, hms, etc. I've done on which characters. In practice, I don't have a single main character in the way most players have, just one that's done more content because I've spent the most time playing him. I still consider all of my (4) characters as "mains" in their primary roles: DD, healer, tank, and crafter. I've cleared every veteran dungeon and trial on my DD, most on my healer, and have only done bade vet dungeons on my tank. My goal is to learn the hard group content from different perspectives through playing all roles so that I understand more about the difficulties of each role in order to learn how to be a better team player. Achievements are the only I way I can track some kind of objective progress without having my limited play time taken up by an accounting job.

RaddlemanNumber7

SerafinaWaterstar wrote: »

KMarble wrote: »

tomofhyrule wrote: »

silvereyes wrote: »

majulook wrote: »

2. Antiquity's Lead Drops affected by this or any part of the Antiquity system?

I haven't noticed, but since they are RNG drops from repeatable activities like killing things and harvesting nodes, I imagine probably not. I would recommend testing interactable leads, though, like the Ring of the Pale Order lead in Markarth.

Edit: I did read that some of the achievements for Antiquities don't yield XP after they've been earned once, though, so in that respect, leveling those skill lines will be moderately harder.

This is a good point. Antiquities is already extremely grindy to level up, and earning antiquity achievements really helped that.

We already had the problem of alts not getting the zone purples to help out. Now we can't get achievements to help either? Are we only expected to have one antiquarian (read: one character with the chest passive) per account?

The more I think about it, the more it seems that alt chars are being reduced to alter egos of the main character. Which, frankly, reduces the need for more than one character (at least for me).

But why? Why do this? After so many years of having various characters?

What are they thinking?!

I think it may just be marketing. Customers who are deemed "Fickle" get the most preferential treatment to stop them taking their custom elsewhere. Customers who are deemed "Loyal" can be treated less well because they're going to keep coming back for more whatever "deal" you give them. IRL I've seen Fickle customers offered 25% discount straight off, while Loyal customers got a 10% discount "as a reward for their loyalty".

I notice that players in favour of account-wide achievements frequently say it's what other MMO's do. They do other MMO's besides ESO - they're Fickle. It makes sense for ZOS to do things to try and keep these Fickle players paying for ESO.

As ever, loyal customers will be praised for their loyalty. Words are cheap.

erdbeerheld

Replayability of content / Track char progress

• Achievement could still pop up on alts (to get the "thrill")
• Each successful char would be added to the "achieved by Char1, Char2, Char3, ..." info in the achievement
• Achievement UI could have a filter option "Account" / "Current Char" / (or even each char selectable)

Title usage / Show off

• Coloring, adding counts

As an achievement hunter, I do welcome this change. Not all Raidgroups can "farm" trifecta titles. There are also raidgroups/players, that may just get across the finish line. Or they may just NOT get across the finish line. E.g. due to a not optimal raid composition. Adding account-wide achievements would open the door for those, that like to look at the achievement UI, and see all their achievements.

Elsonso

Danikat wrote: »

I almost never look at the achievement menu, except if I want an achievement reward and I need to see which character is closest to getting it (or has already got it for things like furnishings). I keep track of their individual progress by using the map markers and the quests available, the skill lines they've levelled and things like that, and since none of that is going to change I can't see this having an impact on how I play my various characters. The achievements are just a little tick box that appears periodically. I actually use an addon to make the notifications smaller to get them out of the way because I found it annoying when I was trying to see the resolution of a quest or whatever and the screen was full of mess telling me I've done what I know I just did.

As long as the content itself isn't automatically completed on all your characters, which as far as I've seen isn't the case, this isn't going to stop me wanting to repeat things.

Uh huh. For the last 8 years, it has been the responsibility of the players to adapt to the various changes that ZOS makes to the game. I have done this numerous times, already. What you have said was my planned path to adapting to this, basically ignoring achievements and looking for other ways to tell if my character has not done something. I am almost there right now, but I have used them to pick the focus of what I am going to do next. That would stop, or at least change, with the One Player update. Since I would never be seeing achievements happen, except on rare occasion, this seemed to be a viable workaround.

I am not opposed to account-wide achievements. I am opposed to them doing it in such a way that years worth of character and player+character accomplishments stored by the game are erased. Like I said before, account achievements being tied to the character ended up being an epic game design mistake extending back before launch. ZOS is not meeting expectations with how they are fixing it.

Then I started to see that quests and other in-game things were based on completion of an achievement. Now it is broken worse than what I expected, although I should not be surprised. Even if ZOS fixes these, it could take years for them to be reported and fixed.

ZOS is not going to back down. I will adapt to this. It will not be done without some changes, though.

Mephit

Elsonso wrote: »

Danikat wrote: »

I almost never look at the achievement menu, except if I want an achievement reward and I need to see which character is closest to getting it (or has already got it for things like furnishings). I keep track of their individual progress by using the map markers and the quests available, the skill lines they've levelled and things like that, and since none of that is going to change I can't see this having an impact on how I play my various characters. The achievements are just a little tick box that appears periodically. I actually use an addon to make the notifications smaller to get them out of the way because I found it annoying when I was trying to see the resolution of a quest or whatever and the screen was full of mess telling me I've done what I know I just did.

As long as the content itself isn't automatically completed on all your characters, which as far as I've seen isn't the case, this isn't going to stop me wanting to repeat things.

Uh huh. For the last 8 years, it has been the responsibility of the players to adapt to the various changes that ZOS makes to the game. I have done this numerous times, already. What you have said was my planned path to adapting to this, basically ignoring achievements and looking for other ways to tell if my character has not done something. I am almost there right now, but I have used them to pick the focus of what I am going to do next. That would stop, or at least change, with the One Player update. Since I would never be seeing achievements happen, except on rare occasion, this seemed to be a viable workaround.

I am not opposed to account-wide achievements. I am opposed to them doing it in such a way that years worth of character and player+character accomplishments stored by the game are erased. Like I said before, account achievements being tied to the character ended up being an epic game design mistake extending back before launch. ZOS is not meeting expectations with how they are fixing it.

Then I started to see that quests and other in-game things were based on completion of an achievement. Now it is broken worse than what I expected, although I should not be surprised. Even if ZOS fixes these, it could take years for them to be reported and fixed.

ZOS is not going to back down. I will adapt to this. It will not be done without some changes, though.

They really ought to backdown. Removing replayability / longevity / your customer's hard work from the your product is not good business practice.

Yuualun

I am starting to think that Zos was not really aware how many people actually love the current system. There where a lot of voices that asked for Global achievements, the other part of the players where simply silent and just happily playing the game. Until now.
I often read that the people speaking up now are the "minority" but are we really? A poll on the forums is not really a realistic picture. Most of the players don't even use the forums. I never did until now. Until I went to the pts and realized a big part of the game I love would be lost. So I came here to add my voice in hope I could at least save "something".

It would have been better if they made a real poll, like sending an Mail to every player of the game stating the Pros and Cons of both systems and asking which solution would you prefer?

Again I am not against the idea of global achievement but I am against loosing a part of the game, that is really important to me and that has been there for 8 years, just like that. Especially when there are ideas that would make both sides happy without destroying everything that has been there.

Edit: This for example are ideas I would like

erdbeerheld wrote: »

Replayability of content / Track char progress

• Achievement could still pop up on alts (to get the "thrill")
• Each successful char would be added to the "achieved by Char1, Char2, Char3, ..." info in the achievement
• Achievement UI could have a filter option "Account" / "Current Char" / (or even each char selectable)

Title usage / Show off

• Coloring, adding counts

Would just add a setting for the map "Account" and "Current Character"
With "Account" you would easily see a delve you never did with any char while "Current Character" would use the Character Tracked version and show you the map as it is now.

lolo_01b16_ESO

I'm strongly against the change in it's current form.
Why can't they do it like it's done in the "Kyomas Global Achievements" Addon? There you can get an overview of what achievements you earned across your entire account, but you can still also keep track of each character individually.

ArgonianAustin

I wish everything transferred over.

Mephit

ArgonianAustin wrote: »

I wish everything transferred over.

Can I ask why that is...

Do you only want to do things once? and want to be able to pick different characters / classes to do it depending on what you are enjoying at the time / which is "better"?

Would you be happier if you had one account wide character that could swap classes / skills as and when?

Just trying to understand the requirement.

Elsonso

Mephit wrote: »

Elsonso wrote: »

Danikat wrote: »

I almost never look at the achievement menu, except if I want an achievement reward and I need to see which character is closest to getting it (or has already got it for things like furnishings). I keep track of their individual progress by using the map markers and the quests available, the skill lines they've levelled and things like that, and since none of that is going to change I can't see this having an impact on how I play my various characters. The achievements are just a little tick box that appears periodically. I actually use an addon to make the notifications smaller to get them out of the way because I found it annoying when I was trying to see the resolution of a quest or whatever and the screen was full of mess telling me I've done what I know I just did.

As long as the content itself isn't automatically completed on all your characters, which as far as I've seen isn't the case, this isn't going to stop me wanting to repeat things.

Uh huh. For the last 8 years, it has been the responsibility of the players to adapt to the various changes that ZOS makes to the game. I have done this numerous times, already. What you have said was my planned path to adapting to this, basically ignoring achievements and looking for other ways to tell if my character has not done something. I am almost there right now, but I have used them to pick the focus of what I am going to do next. That would stop, or at least change, with the One Player update. Since I would never be seeing achievements happen, except on rare occasion, this seemed to be a viable workaround.

I am not opposed to account-wide achievements. I am opposed to them doing it in such a way that years worth of character and player+character accomplishments stored by the game are erased. Like I said before, account achievements being tied to the character ended up being an epic game design mistake extending back before launch. ZOS is not meeting expectations with how they are fixing it.

Then I started to see that quests and other in-game things were based on completion of an achievement. Now it is broken worse than what I expected, although I should not be surprised. Even if ZOS fixes these, it could take years for them to be reported and fixed.

ZOS is not going to back down. I will adapt to this. It will not be done without some changes, though.

They really ought to backdown. Removing replayability / longevity / your customer's hard work from the your product is not good business practice.

Yes, they should, and no it is not. Even if I presume that they thought of everything and this is the calculated and weighed option, I think they were wrong in how they did it. Someone didn't carry the 1 when they were calculating.

Mephit

Elsonso wrote: »

Mephit wrote: »

Elsonso wrote: »

Danikat wrote: »

I almost never look at the achievement menu, except if I want an achievement reward and I need to see which character is closest to getting it (or has already got it for things like furnishings). I keep track of their individual progress by using the map markers and the quests available, the skill lines they've levelled and things like that, and since none of that is going to change I can't see this having an impact on how I play my various characters. The achievements are just a little tick box that appears periodically. I actually use an addon to make the notifications smaller to get them out of the way because I found it annoying when I was trying to see the resolution of a quest or whatever and the screen was full of mess telling me I've done what I know I just did.

As long as the content itself isn't automatically completed on all your characters, which as far as I've seen isn't the case, this isn't going to stop me wanting to repeat things.

Uh huh. For the last 8 years, it has been the responsibility of the players to adapt to the various changes that ZOS makes to the game. I have done this numerous times, already. What you have said was my planned path to adapting to this, basically ignoring achievements and looking for other ways to tell if my character has not done something. I am almost there right now, but I have used them to pick the focus of what I am going to do next. That would stop, or at least change, with the One Player update. Since I would never be seeing achievements happen, except on rare occasion, this seemed to be a viable workaround.

I am not opposed to account-wide achievements. I am opposed to them doing it in such a way that years worth of character and player+character accomplishments stored by the game are erased. Like I said before, account achievements being tied to the character ended up being an epic game design mistake extending back before launch. ZOS is not meeting expectations with how they are fixing it.

Then I started to see that quests and other in-game things were based on completion of an achievement. Now it is broken worse than what I expected, although I should not be surprised. Even if ZOS fixes these, it could take years for them to be reported and fixed.

ZOS is not going to back down. I will adapt to this. It will not be done without some changes, though.

They really ought to backdown. Removing replayability / longevity / your customer's hard work from the your product is not good business practice.

Yes, they should, and no it is not. Even if I presume that they thought of everything and this is the calculated and weighed option, I think they were wrong in how they did it. Someone didn't carry the 1 when they were calculating.

We have to hope they are discussing this urgently, and are going to "think about it" this time

tmbrinks

Mephit wrote: »

Elsonso wrote: »

Mephit wrote: »

Elsonso wrote: »

Danikat wrote: »

I almost never look at the achievement menu, except if I want an achievement reward and I need to see which character is closest to getting it (or has already got it for things like furnishings). I keep track of their individual progress by using the map markers and the quests available, the skill lines they've levelled and things like that, and since none of that is going to change I can't see this having an impact on how I play my various characters. The achievements are just a little tick box that appears periodically. I actually use an addon to make the notifications smaller to get them out of the way because I found it annoying when I was trying to see the resolution of a quest or whatever and the screen was full of mess telling me I've done what I know I just did.

As long as the content itself isn't automatically completed on all your characters, which as far as I've seen isn't the case, this isn't going to stop me wanting to repeat things.

Uh huh. For the last 8 years, it has been the responsibility of the players to adapt to the various changes that ZOS makes to the game. I have done this numerous times, already. What you have said was my planned path to adapting to this, basically ignoring achievements and looking for other ways to tell if my character has not done something. I am almost there right now, but I have used them to pick the focus of what I am going to do next. That would stop, or at least change, with the One Player update. Since I would never be seeing achievements happen, except on rare occasion, this seemed to be a viable workaround.

I am not opposed to account-wide achievements. I am opposed to them doing it in such a way that years worth of character and player+character accomplishments stored by the game are erased. Like I said before, account achievements being tied to the character ended up being an epic game design mistake extending back before launch. ZOS is not meeting expectations with how they are fixing it.

Then I started to see that quests and other in-game things were based on completion of an achievement. Now it is broken worse than what I expected, although I should not be surprised. Even if ZOS fixes these, it could take years for them to be reported and fixed.

ZOS is not going to back down. I will adapt to this. It will not be done without some changes, though.

They really ought to backdown. Removing replayability / longevity / your customer's hard work from the your product is not good business practice.

Yes, they should, and no it is not. Even if I presume that they thought of everything and this is the calculated and weighed option, I think they were wrong in how they did it. Someone didn't carry the 1 when they were calculating.

We have to hope they are discussing this urgently, and are working out how best to move the specific "designer" back into the cleaning department... (no offense to cleaners)

Let us hope.

That said, we're very unlikely to see any changes on PTS update 1 on Monday (the 7th), as there are rarely any significant changes in that one. The next Monday (the 14th) is when we will be pinning our hopes on.