tim77 wrote: »

Wolf_Eye wrote: »

tim77 wrote: »

...
[*] Precursor and similar things: I tried to do the precursor on the PTS and it was a bit strange. I got the starter quest, went to guy to talk, but already "collected" all parts because of the achievement.
So i just had to pick up the first quest part.... and got a brandnew precursor. Playtime: +-5 min
Not sure if thats intended.
...

Wait they actually gave you a Precursor? It didn't do that for mine. And I definitely did not get another Solitude Music Box (it wouldn't even let me get the quest in Solitude at ALL).

I get the feeling that are some serious bugs with this.....

Yes, i got it.
At first i logged in to my "main" to get the achievment, logged out, created a brandnew char, skipped the tutorial, traveled straight to clockwork and picked up the quest.
Dont know how it works for chars which are in half progress of it, but for a new created char you can get the quest, don't need to collect any part (apart from the first quest item to start the whole thing).

Maybe the difference from the precursor to the music box is, that you get the precursor as a quest reward, not for fullfilling the achievement.
Fullfilling the achievement (which now is done automatically) just gives you another quest (which is talk to one lady) and for that you get the precursor rewarded.
So you basically now just skip the "collect 14 pieces all over the world", but can still do the quest on new chars.


BTW. kudos for the new house, its *** amazing. Just a guess...: "thx cardinal"? ^^
just one little thing... walking on water seems... new

(edit: removed pictures, they are pointless now. I get it. The whole thing is underwater. Thats even more amazing.
Love it!
But it doesnt make the bad implementation of the titles unseen. Don't distract me like that! )

I did have characters who were in various stages of completing it. It's possible that this threw the achievement "off" as not all of them actually completed it. I will try the test again, this time on various characters both old and new and see what happens. It could just be that the one character I used glitched out of the reward it was supposed to receive.

tmbrinks wrote: »

tomofhyrule wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

I personally see it as a benefit, in that, I can now play my alts without worrying about wasting time on them when I could be completing achievements on my main. I see it as no different than the xbox achievements personally. Those can be completed on any number of characters and all the completions of each achievement contributed to the 100% achievement coverage.

Funny that you mention xbox achievements - that's how a lot of people want it to work.

You play ESO on xbox and get an achievement. You can look in the Xbox tab to see achievments over the whole account, or on the in-game tab to see achievements over a specific character. The existence of Xbox's account-wide achieves isn't deleting the individual character achievements we have in game.

And yet, this update is removing almost everything individual. Not just counting it in a different place, it's completely removing it.

I will 100% support Monster trophies being and incrementing account-wide. I will 100% support titles being account wide (but please give us an easy way to search if we have a bunch). But why does one character clearing a basegame delve cause it to be completed on all characters? Is killing one (1) centurion in Lower Bthanual a massive grind comparable to going ogre hunting to find that last toe ring? Why is vet Maelstrom important enough to be character-specific, but normal Vateshran is account-wide?

Monster trophies being "account wide" could be made by reverting the change made very early in the game where you could bank the trophy and then "use" the item on a character to unlock that part of the achievement. So, if you got it on an alt, you could transfer it over.

This is a great point. This makes it so those that want the achievement account wide or pick up a monster trophy on a barely played character they’re missing on main can unlock but those who really want to do it multiple times can. They can be bound, just not character bound.

In fact, looking at the change from how it used to be (could bank them) to now (character bound) reinforces the character journey choice which is now being thrown out in a complete 180 by the dev team.

please don't take away the trifectas we got on our alts
please don't take away the master anglers we got on our alts
please don't take away the emperor we got on our alts

this game thrives on replayability, you are overwriting repeated achievements with the first character that completed them

people do not repeat achievements like these on the same character they make a new one to experience it again, this update is deleting all record of these and preventing future replayability

TiaFrye wrote: »

Thank you for account wide titles with this. With how BGs are now it's the only way I would be able to have appropriate and immersive previously earned titles on some later made alts.

Let the vocal people have their optionality if it's what they are asking but a lot more of us asked for this change for a long time. A few addons and no one will ever remember they need tracking or pop-ups in a few months because modders will find a way to make it. Or maybe it will be an official addition. On release or in the next update.

Just don't take back hope from people who are very exited for this change only because they have no need to bombard the forums.

Again. If what you really want is account-wide titles, it does not REQUIRE account-wide achievements and it certainly doesn't REQUIRE the elimination of character-specific achievements. People are "flooding the forums" because something that has been core to ESO since its launch is being eliminated in the most destructive way possible. I would definitely stand up for you if a feature you enjoyed was being removed needlessly, even if I had no strong feelings about it myself. In no way do we want to "take back hope." But it would be nice if folks would ALL be better about supporting solutions that address as many play styles as possible, not just their own. The more happy people in the community, the more we all win. INCLUDING ZOS.

Also not everyone plays on PC. So even if this could be addressed by an add-on (which really would be tough) it does not solve the problem for everyone. And if it is taken away now, but added back later, all of those years of data will be GONE. Overwritten. The time to course correct is now. Before the data is deleted. For me this change feels kind of like someone went and permanently deleted the last 8 years of my digital photos, or that my account is being scrubbed and I'm starting over. For the people who care about knowing when they've done things, it is a HUGE LOSS. For the people who don't care about this data, you lose absolutely nothing if it is kept. Almost everyone is asking to have both options. No one is saying don't do this at all.

I personally choose to hope that ZOS truly wanted to give the community something they'd like, but didn't have enough of an understanding of the reasons why people wanted it. I kind of feel like they could have saved themselves a boatload of development by making titles account-wide first, and then seeing who that was left wanted account-wide achievements, and why.

Mauin wrote: »

On one final note, this change also relieves some of the tedious grind from the game. Frankly, the achievements for farming monster trophies have been one of the most obnoxious RNG battles ever since the trophies were changed to being bound to the character that gets them. It took me around 5 years to get the Mudcrab trophy item even with farming, and I am quite happy to have these achievements combined. I am now much closer to having them completed, and I won't be frustrated when the trophy drops on another character anymore. The same applies to dailies (Undaunted Pledges and the like), and the slayer achievements in dungeons, as I tend to use multiple characters (typically whatever role is needed a the time/what I feel like playing), thus removing the feeling that I *need* to use the same character for everything.

I do agree with you that these achievements are truly ridiculous. However I solved this problem a different way - I stopped caring years ago whether even one of my characters got one of these achievements, let alone all of them. If folks are able to let go of the idea that all achievements must be done... this problem goes away. They are a fun surprise if they ever pop but never a to-do list. At most it should be an "I'm bored list." And it's a much easier solution than insisting that everyone who likes character-specific data must have it erased. I mean, these achievements were obviously added as a time sink. It's like insisting that PvP or trials or dungeons or scrying or tanking be removed from the game because you don't like that content. Live and let live!

What i personaly wanted out of this update is that may character can actually work togeter toward a common goal to complete acheivement for exemple i loot 3 monster trophy on 3 character it will be registered at found 3/x. I have no use to only seeing other character acheivement. So the current version seem to pretty much fulfill my desire

I think the very best way to slove this would be an opt-out per character
Upon login you would be ask if you want this character to be linked to global acheivement if you say yes, it proceed as in current test server, if no, that character wont receive or send global acheivement to your account including titles
This would be character specific so you could have 5 characters foing it the global way while having 12 doing it solo

The option to turn it on would also be fond in the setting for later activation if player change their mind

This would permit
1. Player that like the pts implementation to use it
2. People that have fun unlocking achievement and title to continue to play as currently live

Pretty much everyone would be... i think

Re: Monster trophies, I don't care how they end up doing it because anything is better than the way we have it on live now. I'm pretty hard on wanting the old achievement system, but with things like the Monster trophies or the Black Market mogul grindfests, I'd love them to increment by account.

I just see things differently than the PTS did - where I would keep most character-based and then make a few to increment over the account, the PTS has it where most are account-based and only a few work by character... and it seems inconsistent which ones do.

I feel like there are a lot of emotions going into this, so here's what I see as a 'best response' that gives most people what they want:

Some people want to reduce grind for things like Monster Trophies, so they like account-wide achievements

• In the case of some achievements that are notoriously grindy or RNG based, those should absolutely be account-wide. I'd include the 'Champion' tab, the 'Housing' tab, the Monster Trophies, many of the Justice tab, many from the PvP tab (NOT ranks), the vet dungeon slayers achieves, likely the vet Challenger achieves, possibly the Dolmen generals, possibly the motif learned achievements (the achievements, not the knowledge). I would NOT include the zone completions, skyshards, delve/group bosses, or quests, or fishing (I respect people who put in the time for multiple Master Anglers even though that is RNG grindy) in that.
  Note that I don't like assigning these achievements to a single character. If it's a group effort across the whole account, I don't want the sole credit given to the one who got the last drop. The 'Earned by' should be removed from these.

Some people want to get achievements on any character, in case a raid needs them to play an alt instead of their main and they end up 'missing' an achievement.

• Again, this is why an account tab is necessary. It still allows you to prove that you were able to get an achievement even if you were asked to play an alt in that case. I love the UI on the Account Achievements addon that gives dates and names by character, and also shows a bar of total points over the account versus the points earned on a specific character.

Some people feel that account-wide achievements limits replayability of alts since they have nothing to strive for, so they prefer by character.

• Which is why I support keeping individual character pages. It still is nice to see the achievements pop even for doing things like the main quest, which somehow inexplicably only has the very first achievement as character-specific. Many people use achievements to see what they need to do with a character, and for someone with a main who's already done most of the content, their achievement list will show them with little left to do. Sure some people will want to replay content for RP/story reasons, but considering high-level players are already claiming that overland and story aren't holding their attention, and now their raid achievements are one-and-done, what is there to keep people playing?
  This also could lead to a related problem to the one above, where people are coerced to run group content on an off character since "you'll get the achievement globally so who cares what character you use to do it."

Some people like to see a history of their characters, and the PTS is just wiping that information away.

• Losing anything we had is always a problem for people. It may be trivial, but there is a certain amount of nostalgia to go over a character's history and see if there may even be some interesting facts - like for me, I looked back recently and found out that I got the MoS challenger before I even completed vMHK in the first place. Without that, it feels like we're losing some part of the character.
  More practically, there are still a few things tied to achievements that seems strange with a new character. The current iteration on PTS basically auto-completes half of the map when you log into a new character since Delve/WB/Dolmen/etc. progress is shared. It almost feels like some of the exploration is being removed. And permanently missing out on things like the effects when finding Summerset relics or the giant effect from eating the cheese in Skyrim's giant camps is painful. I don't want to lose that.

Achievements do serve a practical purpose for XP.

• The patch notes talk about the change to levelling Undaunted, but all achievements did give XP bonuses. Not to mention the horror of levelling the Antiquities skill line. Removing the ability to get these achievements on alts is losing a decent source of XP in these regards, and it seems only the Undaunted line was addressed.

And then unrelated to achievements, but another factor people talk about:

Some people claim that high-level titles should not be on low level characters.

• I have to say, I've never been bothered by titles on characters. I usually use mine to show off achievements that I'm proud of or to have something that is lore-appropriate, and in some cases a lore-appropriate title is locked behind something high-level... which means I would have to either break my personal RP rules to kit out a character to get that title, or to not use it. I see titles as any other cosmetic and think they should be account-wide unlocks just like the skins are. If a Lv 3 Godslayer or Grand Overlord walks by, I completely understand they didn't get it on that baby character... but I still know they were able to get that prestigious title. Otherwise, live and let live. I'm fine with titles unlocking over the whole account, and am happy to be able to use some of my main's titles on an RP character since it's really appropriate. People who want to avoid using Stormproof on their baby toons will, and people who want to show off that their Lv. 5 completed vMA will obviously not get very far with making anyone believe it.
  But please make it easier to find them in the list.

Parasaurolophus wrote: »

Csleia wrote: »

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

@Tandor Thanks for the ping. This thread is being watched closely for constructive feedback around Account-Wide Achievements.

We understand there are mixed opinions on this issue. Many of you have taken time to list your concerns and possible solutions. The team is reviewing these and analytics from PTS. We welcome any feedback that the team can take under consideration during this period.

Also, we will continue to take feedback beyond this point as well. As always, we just ask for constructive feedback as this is part of the process. Thanks all.

It's not an opinion that trifectas are being deleted on our alts. Does zos have any concept of what they are doing?

It's my opinion that endgame will die. The backbone of eso endgame is replayability and people with experience helping others without. Don't take away all incentive for experienced players to redo challenges especially ones that can take months and hundreds of hours like trifectas.

It's my observation that progs all over discord are already dying RIGHT NOW, as people who already have trifectas completed on alts no longer have a reason to invest hundreds of hours of their time if you're just going to delete the trifectas on their alts next patch.

Sorry but no. It was the endgame community that asked for this change and is generally happy with it. It's unlikely that someone makes triple achievements just to get them on a certain character again.

We must be talking to different endgame players... 'cause while some (about half) wanted account-wide achievements, none of them wanted what's on PTS right now. They mostly wanted an account-wide overview that gave them access to their titles on all characters.

Parasaurolophus wrote: »

Csleia wrote: »

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

@Tandor Thanks for the ping. This thread is being watched closely for constructive feedback around Account-Wide Achievements.

We understand there are mixed opinions on this issue. Many of you have taken time to list your concerns and possible solutions. The team is reviewing these and analytics from PTS. We welcome any feedback that the team can take under consideration during this period.

Also, we will continue to take feedback beyond this point as well. As always, we just ask for constructive feedback as this is part of the process. Thanks all.

It's not an opinion that trifectas are being deleted on our alts. Does zos have any concept of what they are doing?

It's my opinion that endgame will die. The backbone of eso endgame is replayability and people with experience helping others without. Don't take away all incentive for experienced players to redo challenges especially ones that can take months and hundreds of hours like trifectas.

It's my observation that progs all over discord are already dying RIGHT NOW, as people who already have trifectas completed on alts no longer have a reason to invest hundreds of hours of their time if you're just going to delete the trifectas on their alts next patch.

Sorry but no. It was the endgame community that asked for this change and is generally happy with it. It's unlikely that someone makes triple achievements just to get them on a certain character again.

My understanding from this thread is that there is a significant part of the endgame community that believes this change will kill endgame because there will be a marked reluctance on the part of experienced players to repeat content on an alt in order to help first-timers if the alt is already showing it as completed. It's just one example of how this change takes away the replayability factor.

How about adding a little text to the bottom of each achievement saying which character earned it? That way you'd be able to show whether it was on that character or not.

I will say that personally, the idea of account-wide titles is really attractive to me, since I have a full roster of alts and almost no time to play. I hate having to sit and think who has parts of different achievements and letting that dictate which character I need to play in dungeons or trials.

In my opinion, this is an advantage for the average player with less time to play. Titles are purely cosmetic. If they can do it once they can do it again with a new build/character.

To say otherwise is to say that one class or combination of skills is so far above the others that it is impossible for a player to do it with another class, which probably is a balance issue in the classes themselves.

RaddlemanNumber7 wrote: »

Once one character has completed the Dark Brotherhood Litany of Blood it all goes a bit strange for the next character...

When the second character enters the DB refuge for the very first time the "Litany of Blood Fulfilled" is by the Night Mother's statue.

Once they've done the prerequisite quests and completed a sacrament from the Listener, Nevusa appears as expected and starts the dialogue to give the second character the quest. The "Litany of Blood" book is then by the Night Mother's statue.

But, once Nevusa completes her dialogue to start the litany a message immediately appears on screen saying, "Litany of Blood Completed". The book by the Night Mother's statue immediately changes to "Litany of Blood Fulfilled" again. Nevusa then has the dialogue she normally has after the litany has been completed. And that's it finished.

Im going to go out on a limb here and say that your toon you used didn't get DB skill progression for it, right?

Parasaurolophus wrote: »

Csleia wrote: »

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

@Tandor Thanks for the ping. This thread is being watched closely for constructive feedback around Account-Wide Achievements.

We understand there are mixed opinions on this issue. Many of you have taken time to list your concerns and possible solutions. The team is reviewing these and analytics from PTS. We welcome any feedback that the team can take under consideration during this period.

Also, we will continue to take feedback beyond this point as well. As always, we just ask for constructive feedback as this is part of the process. Thanks all.

It's not an opinion that trifectas are being deleted on our alts. Does zos have any concept of what they are doing?

It's my opinion that endgame will die. The backbone of eso endgame is replayability and people with experience helping others without. Don't take away all incentive for experienced players to redo challenges especially ones that can take months and hundreds of hours like trifectas.

It's my observation that progs all over discord are already dying RIGHT NOW, as people who already have trifectas completed on alts no longer have a reason to invest hundreds of hours of their time if you're just going to delete the trifectas on their alts next patch.

Sorry but no. It was the endgame community that asked for this change and is generally happy with it. It's unlikely that someone makes triple achievements just to get them on a certain character again.

Yeah no lmao, nobody in the endgame community asked for this. A huge part of the endgame community is having trifecta titles on numerous toons, or seeing that sweet x8 or w/e on Pithka's addon for different tris. Literally nobody from the endgame community asked for this, and you know it.

silvereyes wrote: »

I would also like to note that achievements now have an "earned by" note in their tooltips, but it seems to completely depend on the first character that you choose to load that has the achievement.


I definitely do NOT like this. The order that one loads characters in should NOT make irreversible, account-wide choices on the player's behalf.

Edit: Some achievements do appear to use the character that earned the achievement first, by date, but others seem not to. Please see my follow-up reply: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/7509168/#Comment_7509168
As well as a related one by @ArchangelIsraphel: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/7509157/#Comment_7509157

Edit 2: I just realized that I don't even have the achievement shown above on Live, even on my oldest, main character, although it is close. PTS seems to be adding kill counts together for achievements during the merge process. That seems wrong, but in a different way.

so if someone decides to delete there character it wills till show the name of the character that earned it correct? or will it fall of and you just have to reearn the achivement?

thats your opinion, my opinion is that you are obviously lying, i dont know anyone who asked zos to literally delete their 5 other godslayers

Well now you know 3, me, my friend Jster and another friend of mine (All with multiple Godslayers, DB's, GH's, dungeon trifectas and pretty much every other achieve in the game etc...) are actually all for this change lmao as well as other players I know on PCNA.

Not saying that it should be done the way they've implemented it on the PTS, (But we don't really mind if it is) as I feel there needs to definitely be options for those that want it, or do not want it or possible a third option of "I want to select T H E S E achievements to be account-wide, whilst retaining the unmarked ones for individual characters" whatever it comes down too, I definitely would L O V E for titles, if not achievements to be account wide. I've been stuck in Cro or tank jail for everything I do, so I wasn't able to get the titles I wanted for my other toons. So a "Character sheet" and an "Account sheet" should most definitely be implemented along with account-wide titles. And if people have a problem with "Why can I use this title on a character that didn't earn it" Then don't use the title until you get that achievement for that character with the aforementioned "character sheet" .

For example, there is no fun in getting cold potato multiple times, or the giant one from Icereach HM, or many many many others that take W A Y too long to get, and are utterly just there for the sake of it taking time to do it... Unless of course you're masochistic like that lul. Even just having a simple "Checkmark" system next to what achieves people want to share across their account could be very nice.

RavenXIV wrote: »

silvereyes wrote: »

I would also like to note that achievements now have an "earned by" note in their tooltips, but it seems to completely depend on the first character that you choose to load that has the achievement.


I definitely do NOT like this. The order that one loads characters in should NOT make irreversible, account-wide choices on the player's behalf.

Edit: Some achievements do appear to use the character that earned the achievement first, by date, but others seem not to. Please see my follow-up reply: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/7509168/#Comment_7509168
As well as a related one by @ArchangelIsraphel: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/7509157/#Comment_7509157

Edit 2: I just realized that I don't even have the achievement shown above on Live, even on my oldest, main character, although it is close. PTS seems to be adding kill counts together for achievements during the merge process. That seems wrong, but in a different way.

so if someone decides to delete there character it wills till show the name of the character that earned it correct? or will it fall of and you just have to reearn the achivement?

unless they know people will delete there characters and thats the easiest way to implement it in.