IronWooshu wrote: »I would love to see them delay the new expansion while they fix Cyrodiil so we can catch all the hypocritical PVE players crying on the forums that say PVP players are toxic.
I guarantee if Zenimax breaks something in PVE like purposefully giving PVE players the type of lag in Cyro where they can't barswap and skill activation sometimes takes many seconds while in their favorite raid/dungeons they would complain too.
spartaxoxo wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »Kryptonite_Kent wrote: »This honestly has me really fired up, I hope everyone shares this video in their pvp guilds discord channels so all the pvp base can see what they think about their own players... and maybe rethink all those ESO plus memberships...
It's not the opinion of anyone who works for ZOS, just a wife being a bit too protective of a dev.
They are working on it really hard actually, and the pandemic really screwed them over. They are performing an entire rearchitecture just because of PVP, and they are also upgrading to better servers which got delayed due to Covid.
Rich gets a ton of questions about pvp when he streams. I actually watched his stream a few times and it was a ton of them and most of what he'd have to answer. She clearly got fed up with it and did something she shouldn't have but I don't think it represents what he thinks or zos. Just what is stressing him out at work and someone doing too much about it.
I appreciate how you are trying to present the "other" side of this........
I could appreciate it if they are continuing to work on it, but I would ask anyone who continues to say this - how long does a person wait? I reached my "quit moment" in September, when a new mmo with a pvp focus came out(please refrain from commenting on that mmo, its irrelevant to this discussion). How many prominent pvp players left ESO in September?All other things aside, how long does a person wait? 1 year? 2 years? 5 years? If they have been genuinely working on it for years, and they dont want to add new content because they are working on it, how long do I have to wait, without new content, before I decide to leave???? How would the pve crowd behave if they had no new content for years, and on top of that their content didnt work properly? Saintly, with Mother Theresa levels of compassion and empathy, I'm sure......
Also, this is Rich's stream. As many have said it's his personal stream. I dont really watch twitch streams, and I'm not the only one. If I dont watch his stream, does that mean I miss out on critical information? What I'm really getting at is that a roadmap for the future of pvp should be posted ON OFFICIAL FORUMS. The lack of this contributes to the feeling that it's just "being worked on" . Incidentally, that other terrible, evil, horrible, new mmo recently had the devs create an hour and a half long video about their roadmap for the next few months. I thought to myself "wha? A pvp roadmap, that exists?"
Again I appreciate how you are presenting the other side of this, but you cannot expect people to just sit there and wait, and wait. And wait.....
I actually completely understand PvPers frustration with how long it's taking, and also think some of this is self inflicted by the devs because of a lack of roadmap and updates.
Again, I think it's good that you are trying to look at this from a balanced point of view. I always try my best to look at both sides of an argument and keep an open mind, so I appreciate you trying to do the same thing. I want to reiterate that I am a firm believer that the majority of BOTH pvp'ers and pve'rs are good folks and are not toxic. It's not good to be divided.
I wanted to say one final thing, about your quoted comment. ZOS, Rich, Gina...they're all smart people. This game would not be so successful(I no longer play yet I still feel connected to the game because of all the fun I've had) if they werent. My point -
WHY is there no official pvp roadmap, or updates....something reasonably frequent....we can only speculate, but when I do, I just dont feel comfortable. None of the scenarios that I come up with as to why this doesnt exist give me hope, or comfort. Assuming all what you have said about this latest "clip" is true, that it was a faux paus, etc....you combine the comments with this lack of vision....its very difficult to come up with a scenario that isnt "pvp is on the back burner"
Anyway, I'll always keep an eye out on the game. Maybe well all be proven wrong in a couple of weeks....
SammyKhajit wrote: »Is this lady an employee of ZOS? Under what capacity is she speaking on behalf of the game?
Entertaining rant from her though. Missed the point re ZOS promise to improve customer service and communication. But still entertaining.
etchedpixels wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »
It was NOT an official stream in any capacity. Not only is entirely his personal stream with a lot of content about his personal life, the proceeeds go to animal rescue unaffiliated with ZOS. It was her personal hour to talk and she was mostly there to talk about that, accessibility in gaming, and her personal life NOT the game. The question was asked at an inappropriate time and she got annoyed and gave a totally inappropriate answer.
And as the saying goes - those without sin should cast the first stone.
I doubt any one of the people castigating him for a single carefully chosen clip of a single misjudged response haven't put their foot in it at some time.
If you really want Zenimax to communicate more this isn't the way to go about it. It's exactly why many companies produce nothing but faceless PR posts that basically say "no comment. no comment, here's something you didn't ask about we want to push" and have no developer streams, personal insights or anything else except specially staged obviously scripted "interviews".
VaranisArano wrote: »etchedpixels wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »
It was NOT an official stream in any capacity. Not only is entirely his personal stream with a lot of content about his personal life, the proceeeds go to animal rescue unaffiliated with ZOS. It was her personal hour to talk and she was mostly there to talk about that, accessibility in gaming, and her personal life NOT the game. The question was asked at an inappropriate time and she got annoyed and gave a totally inappropriate answer.
And as the saying goes - those without sin should cast the first stone.
I doubt any one of the people castigating him for a single carefully chosen clip of a single misjudged response haven't put their foot in it at some time.
If you really want Zenimax to communicate more this isn't the way to go about it. It's exactly why many companies produce nothing but faceless PR posts that basically say "no comment. no comment, here's something you didn't ask about we want to push" and have no developer streams, personal insights or anything else except specially staged obviously scripted "interviews".
This describes the most likely reaction, and that disappoints me.
Like, I'd really like for there to be a middle ground where the personal stream can stay personal and the official communication can be honest and step up to provide that official insight that players are turning to Rich to.
But part of that is also going to require the player community to behave themselves. I haven't forgotten that we lost a lot of communication from the Class Reps after they were savaged by the community for the Dev-driven Murkmire Nerfs, and even more so after a couple of Class Reps broke their NDAs.
While I do think a lot of the negativity about PVP is justifiable, it's also completely counterproductive to lash out at the Devs personally. That only encourages disengagement on their part, which is the opposite of the engaged, sympathetic behavior we want.
VaranisArano wrote: »SammyKhajit wrote: »Is this lady an employee of ZOS? Under what capacity is she speaking on behalf of the game?
Entertaining rant from her though. Missed the point re ZOS promise to improve customer service and communication. But still entertaining.
Rich Lambert is the Creative Director for ESO. This is his personal stream. She's his wife, and was taking questions from chat.
So...no, she's not an employee. No, she's not speaking for ZOS. She's not necessarily even speaking for Rich Lambert, who doesn't clarify his own opinion as far as I saw.
SerafinaWaterstar wrote: »Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »
No, in my case its not trolling, or white knighting or Stockholm Syndrome, but that I genuinely feel this is a massive over-reaction to an offhand comment made in frustration taken massively out of context & used to manufacture anger and condemnation.
That is what I consider appalling; this is manipulation as very few seem to actually check out the *context* but are quick to jump on the outrage bandwagon.
So who is the troll?
Its not an over reaction when the PvP fan base has been begging for help for many years with little or no response from Zen. The few promises they have made have not happened. Getting this type of response when in effect this problem is like putting on and ripping off a band aid on same problem again and again. The cut this has caused is now festering.
Think for a moment if the Trial community had lag so consistent that raids were cancelled on a regular basis? And when they got a raid rolling, pressing abilities took 5-10 seconds to fire off or lagged out so bad sometimes the abilities did not go off at all, causing wipe after wipe? How would they feel if mocked after years and years of this problem?
AuraNebula wrote: »https://youtu.be/oSDxjJ15YII
I guess we are all just a bunch of crybabies who only like to troll developers. Forget that we have invested years and thousands of hours into a game that we love. Some people may come across as demanding, but in reality they are frustrated and just want a game that works.
Edit: Performance has been bad for years and many PvPers have felt neglected because of it. For years we have heard "We are working on it" and now those words do not mean anything. We don't know what they are working on. We have no way of knowing when they estimate it will be fixed. We just get shamed for caring. If we don't like it we can play another game according to that lady.
spartaxoxo wrote: »etchedpixels wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »
It was NOT an official stream in any capacity. Not only is entirely his personal stream with a lot of content about his personal life, the proceeeds go to animal rescue unaffiliated with ZOS. It was her personal hour to talk and she was mostly there to talk about that, accessibility in gaming, and her personal life NOT the game. The question was asked at an inappropriate time and she got annoyed and gave a totally inappropriate answer.
And as the saying goes - those without sin should cast the first stone.
I doubt any one of the people castigating him for a single carefully chosen clip of a single misjudged response haven't put their foot in it at some time.
If you really want Zenimax to communicate more this isn't the way to go about it. It's exactly why many companies produce nothing but faceless PR posts that basically say "no comment. no comment, here's something you didn't ask about we want to push" and have no developer streams, personal insights or anything else except specially staged obviously scripted "interviews".VaranisArano wrote: »etchedpixels wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »
It was NOT an official stream in any capacity. Not only is entirely his personal stream with a lot of content about his personal life, the proceeeds go to animal rescue unaffiliated with ZOS. It was her personal hour to talk and she was mostly there to talk about that, accessibility in gaming, and her personal life NOT the game. The question was asked at an inappropriate time and she got annoyed and gave a totally inappropriate answer.
And as the saying goes - those without sin should cast the first stone.
I doubt any one of the people castigating him for a single carefully chosen clip of a single misjudged response haven't put their foot in it at some time.
If you really want Zenimax to communicate more this isn't the way to go about it. It's exactly why many companies produce nothing but faceless PR posts that basically say "no comment. no comment, here's something you didn't ask about we want to push" and have no developer streams, personal insights or anything else except specially staged obviously scripted "interviews".
This describes the most likely reaction, and that disappoints me.
Like, I'd really like for there to be a middle ground where the personal stream can stay personal and the official communication can be honest and step up to provide that official insight that players are turning to Rich to.
But part of that is also going to require the player community to behave themselves. I haven't forgotten that we lost a lot of communication from the Class Reps after they were savaged by the community for the Dev-driven Murkmire Nerfs, and even more so after a couple of Class Reps broke their NDAs.
While I do think a lot of the negativity about PVP is justifiable, it's also completely counterproductive to lash out at the Devs personally. That only encourages disengagement on their part, which is the opposite of the engaged, sympathetic behavior we want.
This is beautifully put, thank you for these posts. I would give you both a thousand awesomes if I could, but instead I'll give you a cupcake gif. I agree with this 100%
spartaxoxo wrote: »etchedpixels wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »
It was NOT an official stream in any capacity. Not only is entirely his personal stream with a lot of content about his personal life, the proceeeds go to animal rescue unaffiliated with ZOS. It was her personal hour to talk and she was mostly there to talk about that, accessibility in gaming, and her personal life NOT the game. The question was asked at an inappropriate time and she got annoyed and gave a totally inappropriate answer.
And as the saying goes - those without sin should cast the first stone.
I doubt any one of the people castigating him for a single carefully chosen clip of a single misjudged response haven't put their foot in it at some time.
If you really want Zenimax to communicate more this isn't the way to go about it. It's exactly why many companies produce nothing but faceless PR posts that basically say "no comment. no comment, here's something you didn't ask about we want to push" and have no developer streams, personal insights or anything else except specially staged obviously scripted "interviews".VaranisArano wrote: »etchedpixels wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »
It was NOT an official stream in any capacity. Not only is entirely his personal stream with a lot of content about his personal life, the proceeeds go to animal rescue unaffiliated with ZOS. It was her personal hour to talk and she was mostly there to talk about that, accessibility in gaming, and her personal life NOT the game. The question was asked at an inappropriate time and she got annoyed and gave a totally inappropriate answer.
And as the saying goes - those without sin should cast the first stone.
I doubt any one of the people castigating him for a single carefully chosen clip of a single misjudged response haven't put their foot in it at some time.
If you really want Zenimax to communicate more this isn't the way to go about it. It's exactly why many companies produce nothing but faceless PR posts that basically say "no comment. no comment, here's something you didn't ask about we want to push" and have no developer streams, personal insights or anything else except specially staged obviously scripted "interviews".
This describes the most likely reaction, and that disappoints me.
Like, I'd really like for there to be a middle ground where the personal stream can stay personal and the official communication can be honest and step up to provide that official insight that players are turning to Rich to.
But part of that is also going to require the player community to behave themselves. I haven't forgotten that we lost a lot of communication from the Class Reps after they were savaged by the community for the Dev-driven Murkmire Nerfs, and even more so after a couple of Class Reps broke their NDAs.
While I do think a lot of the negativity about PVP is justifiable, it's also completely counterproductive to lash out at the Devs personally. That only encourages disengagement on their part, which is the opposite of the engaged, sympathetic behavior we want.
This is beautifully put, thank you for these posts. I would give you both a thousand awesomes if I could, but instead I'll give you a cupcake gif. I agree with this 100%
Ok one more thing, regarding the theme of these specific quoted comments.
A question - agreed that lashing out to devs doesnt really solve much.
What is the correct way the pvp community should reach out to devs to express their frustrations, comments about the game, performance etc?
How do you envision it, and has that already happened in the history of the game?
VaranisArano wrote: »SammyKhajit wrote: »Is this lady an employee of ZOS? Under what capacity is she speaking on behalf of the game?
Entertaining rant from her though. Missed the point re ZOS promise to improve customer service and communication. But still entertaining.
Rich Lambert is the Creative Director for ESO. This is his personal stream. She's his wife, and was taking questions from chat.
So...no, she's not an employee. No, she's not speaking for ZOS. She's not necessarily even speaking for Rich Lambert, who doesn't clarify his own opinion as far as I saw.
atherusmora wrote: »This thread is still open? Hmm, interesting.
It would be a bad look to lock this right now.
Hi Everyone,
As this is related to the topic, we shared our official statement on the current state of PvP. You can find that linked here. If you have questions or feedback regarding the official statement, we have comments open for that feedback to be heard. Same rule applies as ZOS_RyanM laid out, please do your best to ensure your comments do not violate our Community Rules.
Thanks all.
EU PC 2000+ CP professional mudballer and pie thrower"Sheggorath, you are the Skooma Cat, for what is crazier than a cat on skooma?" - Fadomai
spartaxoxo wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »etchedpixels wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »
It was NOT an official stream in any capacity. Not only is entirely his personal stream with a lot of content about his personal life, the proceeeds go to animal rescue unaffiliated with ZOS. It was her personal hour to talk and she was mostly there to talk about that, accessibility in gaming, and her personal life NOT the game. The question was asked at an inappropriate time and she got annoyed and gave a totally inappropriate answer.
And as the saying goes - those without sin should cast the first stone.
I doubt any one of the people castigating him for a single carefully chosen clip of a single misjudged response haven't put their foot in it at some time.
If you really want Zenimax to communicate more this isn't the way to go about it. It's exactly why many companies produce nothing but faceless PR posts that basically say "no comment. no comment, here's something you didn't ask about we want to push" and have no developer streams, personal insights or anything else except specially staged obviously scripted "interviews".VaranisArano wrote: »etchedpixels wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »
It was NOT an official stream in any capacity. Not only is entirely his personal stream with a lot of content about his personal life, the proceeeds go to animal rescue unaffiliated with ZOS. It was her personal hour to talk and she was mostly there to talk about that, accessibility in gaming, and her personal life NOT the game. The question was asked at an inappropriate time and she got annoyed and gave a totally inappropriate answer.
And as the saying goes - those without sin should cast the first stone.
I doubt any one of the people castigating him for a single carefully chosen clip of a single misjudged response haven't put their foot in it at some time.
If you really want Zenimax to communicate more this isn't the way to go about it. It's exactly why many companies produce nothing but faceless PR posts that basically say "no comment. no comment, here's something you didn't ask about we want to push" and have no developer streams, personal insights or anything else except specially staged obviously scripted "interviews".
This describes the most likely reaction, and that disappoints me.
Like, I'd really like for there to be a middle ground where the personal stream can stay personal and the official communication can be honest and step up to provide that official insight that players are turning to Rich to.
But part of that is also going to require the player community to behave themselves. I haven't forgotten that we lost a lot of communication from the Class Reps after they were savaged by the community for the Dev-driven Murkmire Nerfs, and even more so after a couple of Class Reps broke their NDAs.
While I do think a lot of the negativity about PVP is justifiable, it's also completely counterproductive to lash out at the Devs personally. That only encourages disengagement on their part, which is the opposite of the engaged, sympathetic behavior we want.
This is beautifully put, thank you for these posts. I would give you both a thousand awesomes if I could, but instead I'll give you a cupcake gif. I agree with this 100%
Ok one more thing, regarding the theme of these specific quoted comments.
A question - agreed that lashing out to devs doesnt really solve much.
What is the correct way the pvp community should reach out to devs to express their frustrations, comments about the game, performance etc?
How do you envision it, and has that already happened in the history of the game?
Well one thing is I think the full context of what was said should be in the OP including who she actually is, rather than OP priming things for outrage with a clip taken out of context and sat alongside their own totally understandable and legit feelings of anger. It just causes discussion to be more inflammatory. And this kind of thing is exactly what makes people makes put up their walls.
I also think people should refrain from comments like "we paid for her house" etc.
They should also maybe keep these kinds of questions moreso towards Rich than his wife.
Just in general try to be fair and respectful.
Outside of stuff like that though, I think PvPers are already communicating the way the should be communicating. The party who's communication sucks is not the players, for the most part. It is the devs.
They should try to do more Q&As, be more active on the forums and respond to threads more than once, be giving updates and roadmaps etc.
Like the blame is 90% on zos.
edward_frigidhands wrote: »Since I personally have no sympathy for the players, I can only applaud with approval. Developers should do what they think appropriate for the game. Players should either accept it or go away. Game as a vision of developers is more important than any player wishes or expectations.
Your comment is misplaced here.
Players are questioning quality rather than design choices.
Go look up some games where the players left.
Doesn't matter.
Hi Everyone,
As this is related to the topic, we shared our official statement on the current state of PvP. You can find that linked here. If you have questions or feedback regarding the official statement, we have comments open for that feedback to be heard. Same rule applies as ZOS_RyanM laid out, please do your best to ensure your comments do not violate our Community Rules.
Thanks all.
spartaxoxo wrote: »etchedpixels wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »
It was NOT an official stream in any capacity. Not only is entirely his personal stream with a lot of content about his personal life, the proceeeds go to animal rescue unaffiliated with ZOS. It was her personal hour to talk and she was mostly there to talk about that, accessibility in gaming, and her personal life NOT the game. The question was asked at an inappropriate time and she got annoyed and gave a totally inappropriate answer.
And as the saying goes - those without sin should cast the first stone.
I doubt any one of the people castigating him for a single carefully chosen clip of a single misjudged response haven't put their foot in it at some time.
If you really want Zenimax to communicate more this isn't the way to go about it. It's exactly why many companies produce nothing but faceless PR posts that basically say "no comment. no comment, here's something you didn't ask about we want to push" and have no developer streams, personal insights or anything else except specially staged obviously scripted "interviews".VaranisArano wrote: »etchedpixels wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »
It was NOT an official stream in any capacity. Not only is entirely his personal stream with a lot of content about his personal life, the proceeeds go to animal rescue unaffiliated with ZOS. It was her personal hour to talk and she was mostly there to talk about that, accessibility in gaming, and her personal life NOT the game. The question was asked at an inappropriate time and she got annoyed and gave a totally inappropriate answer.
And as the saying goes - those without sin should cast the first stone.
I doubt any one of the people castigating him for a single carefully chosen clip of a single misjudged response haven't put their foot in it at some time.
If you really want Zenimax to communicate more this isn't the way to go about it. It's exactly why many companies produce nothing but faceless PR posts that basically say "no comment. no comment, here's something you didn't ask about we want to push" and have no developer streams, personal insights or anything else except specially staged obviously scripted "interviews".
This describes the most likely reaction, and that disappoints me.
Like, I'd really like for there to be a middle ground where the personal stream can stay personal and the official communication can be honest and step up to provide that official insight that players are turning to Rich to.
But part of that is also going to require the player community to behave themselves. I haven't forgotten that we lost a lot of communication from the Class Reps after they were savaged by the community for the Dev-driven Murkmire Nerfs, and even more so after a couple of Class Reps broke their NDAs.
While I do think a lot of the negativity about PVP is justifiable, it's also completely counterproductive to lash out at the Devs personally. That only encourages disengagement on their part, which is the opposite of the engaged, sympathetic behavior we want.
This is beautifully put, thank you for these posts. I would give you both a thousand awesomes if I could, but instead I'll give you a cupcake gif. I agree with this 100%
Ok one more thing, regarding the theme of these specific quoted comments.
A question - agreed that lashing out to devs doesnt really solve much.
What is the correct way the pvp community should reach out to devs to express their frustrations, comments about the game, performance etc?
How do you envision it, and has that already happened in the history of the game?
spartaxoxo wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »etchedpixels wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »
It was NOT an official stream in any capacity. Not only is entirely his personal stream with a lot of content about his personal life, the proceeeds go to animal rescue unaffiliated with ZOS. It was her personal hour to talk and she was mostly there to talk about that, accessibility in gaming, and her personal life NOT the game. The question was asked at an inappropriate time and she got annoyed and gave a totally inappropriate answer.
And as the saying goes - those without sin should cast the first stone.
I doubt any one of the people castigating him for a single carefully chosen clip of a single misjudged response haven't put their foot in it at some time.
If you really want Zenimax to communicate more this isn't the way to go about it. It's exactly why many companies produce nothing but faceless PR posts that basically say "no comment. no comment, here's something you didn't ask about we want to push" and have no developer streams, personal insights or anything else except specially staged obviously scripted "interviews".VaranisArano wrote: »etchedpixels wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »
It was NOT an official stream in any capacity. Not only is entirely his personal stream with a lot of content about his personal life, the proceeeds go to animal rescue unaffiliated with ZOS. It was her personal hour to talk and she was mostly there to talk about that, accessibility in gaming, and her personal life NOT the game. The question was asked at an inappropriate time and she got annoyed and gave a totally inappropriate answer.
And as the saying goes - those without sin should cast the first stone.
I doubt any one of the people castigating him for a single carefully chosen clip of a single misjudged response haven't put their foot in it at some time.
If you really want Zenimax to communicate more this isn't the way to go about it. It's exactly why many companies produce nothing but faceless PR posts that basically say "no comment. no comment, here's something you didn't ask about we want to push" and have no developer streams, personal insights or anything else except specially staged obviously scripted "interviews".
This describes the most likely reaction, and that disappoints me.
Like, I'd really like for there to be a middle ground where the personal stream can stay personal and the official communication can be honest and step up to provide that official insight that players are turning to Rich to.
But part of that is also going to require the player community to behave themselves. I haven't forgotten that we lost a lot of communication from the Class Reps after they were savaged by the community for the Dev-driven Murkmire Nerfs, and even more so after a couple of Class Reps broke their NDAs.
While I do think a lot of the negativity about PVP is justifiable, it's also completely counterproductive to lash out at the Devs personally. That only encourages disengagement on their part, which is the opposite of the engaged, sympathetic behavior we want.
This is beautifully put, thank you for these posts. I would give you both a thousand awesomes if I could, but instead I'll give you a cupcake gif. I agree with this 100%
Ok one more thing, regarding the theme of these specific quoted comments.
A question - agreed that lashing out to devs doesnt really solve much.
What is the correct way the pvp community should reach out to devs to express their frustrations, comments about the game, performance etc?
How do you envision it, and has that already happened in the history of the game?
Well one thing is I think the full context of what was said should be in the OP including who she actually is, rather than OP priming things for outrage with a clip taken out of context and sat alongside their own totally understandable and legit feelings of anger. It just causes discussion to be more inflammatory. And this kind of thing is exactly what makes people makes put up their walls.
I also think people should refrain from comments like "we paid for her house" etc.
They should also maybe keep these kinds of questions moreso towards Rich than his wife.
Just in general try to be fair and respectful.
Outside of stuff like that though, I think PvPers are already communicating the way the should be communicating. The party who's communication sucks is not the players, for the most part. It is the devs.
They should try to do more Q&As, be more active on the forums and respond to threads more than once, be giving updates and roadmaps etc.
Like the blame is 90% on zos.
edward_frigidhands wrote: »edward_frigidhands wrote: »Since I personally have no sympathy for the players, I can only applaud with approval. Developers should do what they think appropriate for the game. Players should either accept it or go away. Game as a vision of developers is more important than any player wishes or expectations.
Your comment is misplaced here.
Players are questioning quality rather than design choices.
Go look up some games where the players left.
Doesn't matter.
It does though.
If it didn't then zos would not constantly address it and state they are working on here.
You're kind of just arguing for the sake of it while missing the pretty obvious.
VaranisArano wrote: »IronWooshu wrote: »I would love to see them delay the new expansion while they fix Cyrodiil so we can catch all the hypocritical PVE players crying on the forums that say PVP players are toxic.
I guarantee if Zenimax breaks something in PVE like purposefully giving PVE players the type of lag in Cyro where they can't barswap and skill activation sometimes takes many seconds while in their favorite raid/dungeons they would complain too.
Truth be told, I'm not very impressed that Molag Kena is still bugging out.
That being said, we have seen ZOS seriously inconvenience PVE players back when Groupfinder was having its rework done. And yeah, there were a ton of complaints. First from PVPers because they canceled Midyear Mayhem, and then from PVEers as the queue problems got worse.
Then the Undaunted Event happened, and the Groupfinder rework failed so bad that ZOS halted and postponed the event. Angry posts. Bitter posts. Much mocking of ZOS.
Then it got postponed again. And again. It was only a couple of months, so not the years that Cyrodiil has been in sad shape. Still - much questioning of ZOS' competence. Wondering if anything was getting done. Much doubt that it would actually work when the Undaunted Event finally happened.
Then it worked, and the negativity went away!
There's other examples. The login queues for PC/EU. The guild trader multi-bid fiascos. Lots of anger while the problems lasted, eased by the promise of ZOS taking action. Once fixed, the anger passed.
But let's just say that I have no doubt that PVE players are capable of pouring just as much salt and toxicity out when their content doesn't work properly as PVPers.
Everyone gets frustrated. It's just that PVPers have been frustrated for so many years, we've pretty much got our own great salt lake with no fixes in sight.
VaranisArano wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »etchedpixels wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »
It was NOT an official stream in any capacity. Not only is entirely his personal stream with a lot of content about his personal life, the proceeeds go to animal rescue unaffiliated with ZOS. It was her personal hour to talk and she was mostly there to talk about that, accessibility in gaming, and her personal life NOT the game. The question was asked at an inappropriate time and she got annoyed and gave a totally inappropriate answer.
And as the saying goes - those without sin should cast the first stone.
I doubt any one of the people castigating him for a single carefully chosen clip of a single misjudged response haven't put their foot in it at some time.
If you really want Zenimax to communicate more this isn't the way to go about it. It's exactly why many companies produce nothing but faceless PR posts that basically say "no comment. no comment, here's something you didn't ask about we want to push" and have no developer streams, personal insights or anything else except specially staged obviously scripted "interviews".VaranisArano wrote: »etchedpixels wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »
It was NOT an official stream in any capacity. Not only is entirely his personal stream with a lot of content about his personal life, the proceeeds go to animal rescue unaffiliated with ZOS. It was her personal hour to talk and she was mostly there to talk about that, accessibility in gaming, and her personal life NOT the game. The question was asked at an inappropriate time and she got annoyed and gave a totally inappropriate answer.
And as the saying goes - those without sin should cast the first stone.
I doubt any one of the people castigating him for a single carefully chosen clip of a single misjudged response haven't put their foot in it at some time.
If you really want Zenimax to communicate more this isn't the way to go about it. It's exactly why many companies produce nothing but faceless PR posts that basically say "no comment. no comment, here's something you didn't ask about we want to push" and have no developer streams, personal insights or anything else except specially staged obviously scripted "interviews".
This describes the most likely reaction, and that disappoints me.
Like, I'd really like for there to be a middle ground where the personal stream can stay personal and the official communication can be honest and step up to provide that official insight that players are turning to Rich to.
But part of that is also going to require the player community to behave themselves. I haven't forgotten that we lost a lot of communication from the Class Reps after they were savaged by the community for the Dev-driven Murkmire Nerfs, and even more so after a couple of Class Reps broke their NDAs.
While I do think a lot of the negativity about PVP is justifiable, it's also completely counterproductive to lash out at the Devs personally. That only encourages disengagement on their part, which is the opposite of the engaged, sympathetic behavior we want.
This is beautifully put, thank you for these posts. I would give you both a thousand awesomes if I could, but instead I'll give you a cupcake gif. I agree with this 100%
Ok one more thing, regarding the theme of these specific quoted comments.
A question - agreed that lashing out to devs doesnt really solve much.
What is the correct way the pvp community should reach out to devs to express their frustrations, comments about the game, performance etc?
How do you envision it, and has that already happened in the history of the game?
Since I was one of the quoted comments, here's my take on how the community in general and PVPers (of which I am one) in particular would do well to express themselves:
Be polite. Be respectful. Be reasonable. Be clear about your feedback, but also understanding that you, as an individual, are but one player.
That's worked pretty well for me, participating on the forums since Morrowind. In that time, I've had a handful of interactions with the Devs and Mods in the forums that have been pleasant and respectful even when I'm making suggestions or pointing out that they've bugged Plentiful Harvest.
Does it work?
Yes, actually. Sustained, respectful, well-thought-out feedback by a number of players has made substantial changes to ESO.
A list of the PVP-specific changes that happened due to players asking for them:
- Return of faction locked servers (and return of unlocked servers)
- Alliance Change Tokens
- separate campaigns for Imperial City
- various tests made to test things players asked ZOS to test
- no proc sets in one campaign
- Battlegrounds (like, maybe people forget that small scalers were begging ZOS for a gamemode to get away from the zergs of Cyrodiil?)
Some of those I advocated for. Some of those, I didn't. Not that it matters - I'm one person.
What they all have in common is that:
A. Enough people gave sustained, respectful, clear feedback that these were desirable directions for ESO PVP that the Devs decided it was worth doing.
B. They were doable with time and effort.
In terms of performance, we've got A down pat. The Devs know. We've told them.
What we don't have any evidence of is B. Time, yes. Effort, yes. Both have been spent to no avail.
So it's not like sustained negative feedback is going to help or somehow make the fixes doable by magic.
So why not be polite, respectful, and clear about our sustained feedback? We do far less harm that way.
edward_frigidhands wrote: »edward_frigidhands wrote: »Since I personally have no sympathy for the players, I can only applaud with approval. Developers should do what they think appropriate for the game. Players should either accept it or go away. Game as a vision of developers is more important than any player wishes or expectations.
Your comment is misplaced here.
Players are questioning quality rather than design choices.
Go look up some games where the players left.
Doesn't matter.
It does though.
If it didn't then zos would not constantly address it and state they are working on here.
You're kind of just arguing for the sake of it while missing the pretty obvious.
ZOS may repeat "we are working on it" how much ZOS wants. They may, but they don't have to. One time is enough to let players know that they are aware. Everything else is extra communication, as the result of the awareness is not the players' concern.
etchedpixels wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »
It was NOT an official stream in any capacity. Not only is entirely his personal stream with a lot of content about his personal life, the proceeeds go to animal rescue unaffiliated with ZOS. It was her personal hour to talk and she was mostly there to talk about that, accessibility in gaming, and her personal life NOT the game. The question was asked at an inappropriate time and she got annoyed and gave a totally inappropriate answer.
And as the saying goes - those without sin should cast the first stone.
I doubt any one of the people castigating him for a single carefully chosen clip of a single misjudged response haven't put their foot in it at some time.
If you really want Zenimax to communicate more this isn't the way to go about it. It's exactly why many companies produce nothing but faceless PR posts that basically say "no comment. no comment, here's something you didn't ask about we want to push" and have no developer streams, personal insights or anything else except specially staged obviously scripted "interviews".