PvPers how does this make you feel?

Ashica

Just shameful but to be honest but do we really expect anything better from ZoS after all this time. Like so many of the community here we are passionate about the game, maybe too much at times, the point is that ZoS don’t care and haven’t cared about the community and now they really don’t care to hide that fact anymore. After playing and subbing for 5 years I will now take my leave so thanks ZoS for finally telling us how you really feel and just a reminder, actions speak louder than words.

kalimar44

I actually watched this live on Rich's twitch channel when she said this, and right off I said this is going to bite them in the butt. I personally would not allow my wife to answer questions on a live stream about a game she has nothing to do with.

fizl101

kalimar44 wrote: »

I actually watched this live on Rich's twitch channel when she said this, and right off I said this is going to bite them in the butt. I personally would not allow my wife to answer questions on a live stream about a game she has nothing to do with.

Same.

Artim_X

At the end of the day. The PvP community could have grown over the years to be as big as the PvE community. The main thing holding growth back was a server that could not handle our desire to play resulting in an unfun experience when decent amount of people are on.

I understand that this response wasn't made directly by Rich, but it makes you wonder if these are his true feelings.

Nanfoodle

Artim_X wrote: »

At the end of the day. The PvP community could have grown over the years to be as big as the PvE community. The main thing holding growth back was a server that could not handle our desire to play resulting in an unfun experience when decent amount of people are on.

I understand that this response wasn't made directly by Rich, but it makes you wonder if these are his true feelings.

PvP players have been telling Zen this for years. Fact is many PvP/MMOers players have been looking for a home for a long time. New World showed there is a market for that with almost a mil players logging into New World at one concurrent time. How many people bought that game looking for a new PvP/MMO home? If NW ended up doing a good job of making that game, I am sure, ESO would have lost allot of players. Including me.

spartaxoxo

Kryptonite_Kent wrote: »

This honestly has me really fired up, I hope everyone shares this video in their pvp guilds discord channels so all the pvp base can see what they think about their own players... and maybe rethink all those ESO plus memberships...

It's not the opinion of anyone who works for ZOS, just a wife being a bit too protective of a dev.

They are working on it really hard actually, and the pandemic really screwed them over. They are performing an entire rearchitecture just because of PVP, and they are also upgrading to better servers which got delayed due to Covid.

Rich gets a ton of questions about pvp when he streams. I actually watched his stream a few times and it was a ton of them and most of what he'd have to answer. She clearly got fed up with it and did something she shouldn't have but I don't think it represents what he thinks or zos. Just what is stressing him out at work and someone doing too much about it.

TelvanniWizard

A shameful display, that no serious company would accept.

ApoAlaia

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Kryptonite_Kent wrote: »

This honestly has me really fired up, I hope everyone shares this video in their pvp guilds discord channels so all the pvp base can see what they think about their own players... and maybe rethink all those ESO plus memberships...

It's not the opinion of anyone who works for ZOS, just a mother being a bit too protective of a dev.

They are working on it really hard actually, and the pandemic really screwed them over. They are performing an entire rearchitecture just because of PVP, and they are also upgrading to better servers which got delayed due to Covid.

Wife. Honestly the times she has been called 'his mother' here and in other platforms, she must be frothing in the mouth.

The one who sows winds, reaps storms I guess.

Either way something I was reminded of this morning, honesty without compassion is cruelty.

VaranisArano

kalimar44 wrote: »

I actually watched this live on Rich's twitch channel when she said this, and right off I said this is going to bite them in the butt. I personally would not allow my wife to answer questions on a live stream about a game she has nothing to do with.

Since you watched, what did happen afterward?

Just moved on with the questions? Did Rich apologize?

ApoAlaia

spartaxoxo wrote: »

ApoAlaia wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Kryptonite_Kent wrote: »

This honestly has me really fired up, I hope everyone shares this video in their pvp guilds discord channels so all the pvp base can see what they think about their own players... and maybe rethink all those ESO plus memberships...

It's not the opinion of anyone who works for ZOS, just a mother being a bit too protective of a dev.

They are working on it really hard actually, and the pandemic really screwed them over. They are performing an entire rearchitecture just because of PVP, and they are also upgrading to better servers which got delayed due to Covid.

Wife. Honestly the times she has been called 'his mother' here and in other platforms, she must be frothing in the mouth.

The one who sows winds, reaps storms I guess.

Either way something I was reminded of this morning, honesty without compassion is cruelty.

Ah. I saw her referred to mom here earlier in the thread and hadn't watched them enough times to know exactly who she was. Thanks for the correction, I'll fix it.

Pleasure

ShalidorsHeir

@VaranisArano https://www.twitch.tv/slashlurk/video/1256402903 at 38:55
i think went on glad they could use a sub as distraction

spartaxoxo

Nightlord wrote: »

AuraNebula wrote: »

This is not attacking the devs. It is not even taken out of context. If you watch more the bashing actually continues on PvPers.

No it doesn't, lol.

At 39:00 is about where it starts for those that want to see the whole thing for themselves.

VaranisArano

ShalidorsHeir wrote: »

@VaranisArano https://www.twitch.tv/slashlurk/video/1256402903 at 38:55
i think went on glad they could use a sub as distraction

Thanks!

spartaxoxo

markulrich1966 wrote: »

seing the short clip I thought it was a faux pax.
Seing the other, longer clip posted afterwards I learned, that these streams are obviously mainly about problems with autistic symptoms of their children, psychotherapy, their dogs, the new house they want to go because of the open kitchen concept, Rich's muscle training etc. pp.

The woman is obviously Rich's wife, and so you must see her reply in that context.
When someone asks in a "private" chat something gamerelated while his woman is talking about the family issues, he must expect an "incompetent" answer. It is simply not the correct setting for this question.

He could wait at last until Rich is taking over, and not interrupt his wife's "teatable talk" with technical issues.
So calm down, and stop overrating a reply taken out of context.

(And yes, the crashes taking a keep in cyro on xbox really suck and emberrass me, nevertheless I don't like taking things out of context).

I still think it's a faux pas, but I don't think it's what is being perpuated by the OP. She was trying to talk about those things, and not the game as she don't work for Zeni. But no matter the topic, it keeps getting brought up. And it's obviously stressing her husband out a bit, but he's a lot more understanding as to why. She wasn't having it that day and lashed out a bit. He felt a bit embarrassed and started to say something a bit more diplomatic, but got cut off by a hype train. And it was dropped.

SantieClaws

This one thinks we have missed the most important point of all.

What does the parrot think about PvP?

Yours with paws
Santie Claws

fizl101

SantieClaws wrote: »

This one thinks we have missed the most important point of all.

What does the parrot think about PvP?

Yours with paws
Santie Claws

Poppy prefers Zelda

VaranisArano

SantieClaws wrote: »

This one thinks we have missed the most important point of all.

What does the parrot think about PvP?

Yours with paws
Santie Claws

Having watched the clip in context now, I do find it funny that prior to the conversation about PVP, the parrot pooped on Rich's shoulder.

I mean, I don't want to speak for the parrot. But...



(I've had finches and parakeets, so I feel the pain, Rich!)

spartaxoxo

Sylvermynx wrote: »

The issue is that ZOS is supposed to manage its employees in a way that - uh.... should be professional, considering they're a large AAA game publisher. And in this case, they didn't do so: they turned a blind eye to the insertion of a non-employee (a developer's wife) into a more or less official public media stream - and that particular non-employee (unless of course she IS an employee in some capacity - which players cannot be reliably expected to know) made some remarks that are.... denigrative to those to whom pvp is serious business not to mention the reason those people PLAY the game.

It was NOT an official stream in any capacity. Not only is entirely his personal stream with a lot of content about his personal life, the proceeeds go to animal rescue unaffiliated with ZOS. It was her personal hour to talk and she was mostly there to talk about that, accessibility in gaming, and her personal life NOT the game. The question was asked at an inappropriate time and she got annoyed and gave a totally inappropriate answer.

That's what actually happened. He should apologize anyway because whenever he's facing the public, he's representing zos. It goes with such a job.

But this was NOT part of his work for them at all

ShalidorsHeir

To answer the question directly - i think its funny, thats how i feel about that as a PvP players - Rich being exposed twice (by the pvp topic and his parrot, who's shitting on his shirt), terri showing some toxicty which all PvPers were expecting already and the whole crowd is completely enraging in the forums. On top of that the viewer who added that pvp issue was owned by the streamer. Afterwards people came up with cheers and bits out of context (or maybe cuz she said the PvPers are crybabies). It is funny how crazy the world is at this point This could be the start of the "strangest things in 2022" collection video. But the most funny thing that the topic ends with "we are working on it" the 6th year in a row

Nogawd

spartaxoxo wrote: »

But this was NOT part of his work for them at all

Same for the people that get fired for social media posts after their employer does some digging.

The "work" or on/off the clock has nothing to do with it.

You represent your employer every time you post something, anything.

NagualV

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Kryptonite_Kent wrote: »

This honestly has me really fired up, I hope everyone shares this video in their pvp guilds discord channels so all the pvp base can see what they think about their own players... and maybe rethink all those ESO plus memberships...

It's not the opinion of anyone who works for ZOS, just a wife being a bit too protective of a dev.

They are working on it really hard actually, and the pandemic really screwed them over. They are performing an entire rearchitecture just because of PVP, and they are also upgrading to better servers which got delayed due to Covid.

Rich gets a ton of questions about pvp when he streams. I actually watched his stream a few times and it was a ton of them and most of what he'd have to answer. She clearly got fed up with it and did something she shouldn't have but I don't think it represents what he thinks or zos. Just what is stressing him out at work and someone doing too much about it.

I appreciate how you are trying to present the "other" side of this........

I could appreciate it if they are continuing to work on it, but I would ask anyone who continues to say this - how long does a person wait? I reached my "quit moment" in September, when a new mmo with a pvp focus came out(please refrain from commenting on that mmo, its irrelevant to this discussion). How many prominent pvp players left ESO in September?All other things aside, how long does a person wait? 1 year? 2 years? 5 years? If they have been genuinely working on it for years, and they dont want to add new content because they are working on it, how long do I have to wait, without new content, before I decide to leave???? How would the pve crowd behave if they had no new content for years, and on top of that their content didnt work properly? Saintly, with Mother Theresa levels of compassion and empathy, I'm sure......

Also, this is Rich's stream. As many have said it's his personal stream. I dont really watch twitch streams, and I'm not the only one. If I dont watch his stream, does that mean I miss out on critical information? What I'm really getting at is that a roadmap for the future of pvp should be posted ON OFFICIAL FORUMS. The lack of this contributes to the feeling that it's just "being worked on" . Incidentally, that other terrible, evil, horrible, new mmo recently had the devs create an hour and a half long video about their roadmap for the next few months. I thought to myself "wha? A pvp roadmap, that exists?"

Again I appreciate how you are presenting the other side of this, but you cannot expect people to just sit there and wait, and wait. And wait.....

caserdar

ESO FAM REPRESENT !!!!

spartaxoxo

NagualV wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Kryptonite_Kent wrote: »

This honestly has me really fired up, I hope everyone shares this video in their pvp guilds discord channels so all the pvp base can see what they think about their own players... and maybe rethink all those ESO plus memberships...

It's not the opinion of anyone who works for ZOS, just a wife being a bit too protective of a dev.

They are working on it really hard actually, and the pandemic really screwed them over. They are performing an entire rearchitecture just because of PVP, and they are also upgrading to better servers which got delayed due to Covid.

Rich gets a ton of questions about pvp when he streams. I actually watched his stream a few times and it was a ton of them and most of what he'd have to answer. She clearly got fed up with it and did something she shouldn't have but I don't think it represents what he thinks or zos. Just what is stressing him out at work and someone doing too much about it.

I appreciate how you are trying to present the "other" side of this........

I could appreciate it if they are continuing to work on it, but I would ask anyone who continues to say this - how long does a person wait? I reached my "quit moment" in September, when a new mmo with a pvp focus came out(please refrain from commenting on that mmo, its irrelevant to this discussion). How many prominent pvp players left ESO in September?All other things aside, how long does a person wait? 1 year? 2 years? 5 years? If they have been genuinely working on it for years, and they dont want to add new content because they are working on it, how long do I have to wait, without new content, before I decide to leave???? How would the pve crowd behave if they had no new content for years, and on top of that their content didnt work properly? Saintly, with Mother Theresa levels of compassion and empathy, I'm sure......

Also, this is Rich's stream. As many have said it's his personal stream. I dont really watch twitch streams, and I'm not the only one. If I dont watch his stream, does that mean I miss out on critical information? What I'm really getting at is that a roadmap for the future of pvp should be posted ON OFFICIAL FORUMS. The lack of this contributes to the feeling that it's just "being worked on" . Incidentally, that other terrible, evil, horrible, new mmo recently had the devs create an hour and a half long video about their roadmap for the next few months. I thought to myself "wha? A pvp roadmap, that exists?"

Again I appreciate how you are presenting the other side of this, but you cannot expect people to just sit there and wait, and wait. And wait.....

I don't expect anyone to wait. And they can't say it but I bet the devs don't either and simply hope to win you back when it's ready. I expect that they are also frustrated with the ways the pandemic has made this entire process take much longer than they envisioned.

I actually completely understand PvPers frustration with how long it's taking, and also think some of this is self inflicted by the devs because of a lack of roadmap and updates.

You know how I found about that rearchitecture project? I went to his stream to ask about clothing in game and then stuck around a bit, although I did ask at a more appropriate time as he was on stream and answering other game questions. That's great for me but how many others realistically saw that?

So I don't think the question was appropriately timed, but I understand why the pvper got frustrated enough to pester his wife during her streaming time. BTW he owns the channel but that particular stream was hers and called Terri Time.

I also understand the frustration of his wife to see her husband getting hounded for answers and people coming into ask even at times it's not appropriate all the time and snapping.

I think both people behaved inappropriately, but also understandably so. We're all humans at the end of the day. You can't expect people to wait years and years and not ask questions in the only place they can seem to get real answers, and you can also understand his wife for getting frustrated on behalf of her husband that he's being pestered even at times when it's not appropriate.

I think he owes an apology and maybe his wife should stop answering pvp questions, and he should maybe tell his chat not to take that question when she's the one amswering. But I don't think it should be viewed as anything more than that. It doesn't mean Rich or ZOS has any malice for PvPers nor does it mean that PvPers are some kind of horrible brigade that deserves that kind of treatment. This is simply a frustrating situation for all parties that could be greatly alleviated by zos upping it's communication in official channels.

The3sFinest

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Sylvermynx wrote: »

The issue is that ZOS is supposed to manage its employees in a way that - uh.... should be professional, considering they're a large AAA game publisher. And in this case, they didn't do so: they turned a blind eye to the insertion of a non-employee (a developer's wife) into a more or less official public media stream - and that particular non-employee (unless of course she IS an employee in some capacity - which players cannot be reliably expected to know) made some remarks that are.... denigrative to those to whom pvp is serious business not to mention the reason those people PLAY the game.

It was NOT an official stream in any capacity. Not only is entirely his personal stream with a lot of content about his personal life, the proceeeds go to animal rescue unaffiliated with ZOS. It was her personal hour to talk and she was mostly there to talk about that, accessibility in gaming, and her personal life NOT the game. The question was asked at an inappropriate time and she got annoyed and gave a totally inappropriate answer.

That's what actually happened. He should apologize anyway because whenever he's facing the public, he's representing zos. It goes with such a job.

But this was NOT part of his work for them at all

It says "Game development, AMA". Maybe he should remove that, or she should have her own channel if she does not want it to look like she is representing ESO, or doing "unofficial streams".

Destai

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Kryptonite_Kent wrote: »

This honestly has me really fired up, I hope everyone shares this video in their pvp guilds discord channels so all the pvp base can see what they think about their own players... and maybe rethink all those ESO plus memberships...

It's not the opinion of anyone who works for ZOS, just a wife being a bit too protective of a dev.

They are working on it really hard actually, and the pandemic really screwed them over. They are performing an entire rearchitecture just because of PVP, and they are also upgrading to better servers which got delayed due to Covid.

Rich gets a ton of questions about pvp when he streams. I actually watched his stream a few times and it was a ton of them and most of what he'd have to answer. She clearly got fed up with it and did something she shouldn't have but I don't think it represents what he thinks or zos. Just what is stressing him out at work and someone doing too much about it.

I can appreciate their frustration, but honestly, it's their own making. I can't be sympathetic at this point, the heat is deserved. Rich doesn't engage on the forums, and tells his devs it's ok to ignore the forums. Players have no venue for feedback other than the vacuum of support tickets. They haven't fixed deep performance issues in 4+ years, and PVP feels it the most acutely. I can understand it takes a long time to fix, but if they publish regular status updates with some amount of detail, I think they'd see less pestering about it.

My impression of him is that he doesn't want to entertain the possibility he's wrong. Their whole PR and CM strategy reeks of that ethos and it's honestly hurting the game. Case in point, the monetization fiasco earlier - he says that people always complain about it and doesn't get why, BUT KEEPS FREAKING DOING IT. No entertaining of alternatives presented by the community, nothing. Now we have the overarching performance issues that he KNOWS is a hot button for many and has no communication strategy for abetting the frustrations other than telling his employees it'll blow over. The fact he can't see the impact of that speaks volumes of his leadership.

Now if he took one of his many sessions per week and dedicated it to performance questions and updates, I think that'd be well received. But again, his personal Twitch stream isn't the proper place for that, here is. Reddit is. Their landing page is. Instead we get "waah, waah" from his wife and people pretending that skill delays don't impact people with disabilities.

TechMaybeHic

The3sFinest wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Sylvermynx wrote: »

The issue is that ZOS is supposed to manage its employees in a way that - uh.... should be professional, considering they're a large AAA game publisher. And in this case, they didn't do so: they turned a blind eye to the insertion of a non-employee (a developer's wife) into a more or less official public media stream - and that particular non-employee (unless of course she IS an employee in some capacity - which players cannot be reliably expected to know) made some remarks that are.... denigrative to those to whom pvp is serious business not to mention the reason those people PLAY the game.

It was NOT an official stream in any capacity. Not only is entirely his personal stream with a lot of content about his personal life, the proceeeds go to animal rescue unaffiliated with ZOS. It was her personal hour to talk and she was mostly there to talk about that, accessibility in gaming, and her personal life NOT the game. The question was asked at an inappropriate time and she got annoyed and gave a totally inappropriate answer.

That's what actually happened. He should apologize anyway because whenever he's facing the public, he's representing zos. It goes with such a job.

But this was NOT part of his work for them at all

It says "Game development, AMA". Maybe he should remove that, or she should have her own channel if she does not want it to look like she is representing ESO, or doing "unofficial streams".

Truth is, the only reason anyone is watching him is because who he is at ZOS. If you are using your position, then you cannot hide behind it being a "personal account"

VaranisArano

So in context, I think it's better and worse than I expected.

How its better: I found her irritation more understandable in that the PVP question interrupted a fairly serious conversation about accessibility for players who would benefit from better visual options. They were talking about weighing options people want (like bards) and options players need (like accessibility).

Then the PVP question drops in there trying to make it seem like PVP performance is equivalent to a visual disability.

I mean, I like PVP a lot. But even I had the reaction of "Just no, that's not how you ask if you want a serious answer." I'd be irritated too. (Maybe I'm putting an unfair construction on the question, but that's my first impression of it in context. So, sorry if I'm being unfair.)

The player asking about bards was a LOT more gracious, by the way, stating that they'd rather have the accessibility issues come first for the sake of people who they know would benefit.


How it's worse: Rich's wife talked about how she talks to him about the ideas she thinks are worth fighting for (like visual accessibility.)

On the one hand, she's a player too. She can fight for the issues she thinks are important, just like we can...albeit she has a more personal connection. I imagine that's a tight line to walk some days.

On the other hand, if she's talking about unofficially representing certain player concerns, there's a reason there's a backlash from the PVP players who were just told "I have no sympathy."

There's a reason the official player representatives were chosen for their skill in PVE and PVP.


In the 15 minutes I watched, it really solidified my perception that Rich's stream is one of the few ways that players are getting regular info about what the Devs are doing and thinking regarding specific player concerns. Rich and his wife briefly talked about bards, visual accessibility, concerns regarding day/night cycle controls, more character slots, new class development, and PVP.

This is a "personal" stream. But when it's giving information that can't be found through official channels, it shouldn't be any surprise that players who want answers are pushing more and more emphasis onto that "personal" stream.

Suggestion for the Communications Team: If you want to take the heat off of Rich and his Stream as one of the few ways to actually have a real back-and-forth conversation with one of the Devs, have you considered providing more official versions of the type of information he's sharing on stream? Even regular Q&As or Ask Me Anythings might help.

EdmondDontes

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Kryptonite_Kent wrote: »

This honestly has me really fired up, I hope everyone shares this video in their pvp guilds discord channels so all the pvp base can see what they think about their own players... and maybe rethink all those ESO plus memberships...

It's not the opinion of anyone who works for ZOS, just a wife being a bit too protective of a dev.

They are working on it really hard actually, and the pandemic really screwed them over. They are performing an entire rearchitecture just because of PVP, and they are also upgrading to better servers which got delayed due to Covid.

Rich gets a ton of questions about pvp when he streams. I actually watched his stream a few times and it was a ton of them and most of what he'd have to answer. She clearly got fed up with it and did something she shouldn't have but I don't think it represents what he thinks or zos. Just what is stressing him out at work and someone doing too much about it.

We know it is also Rich's opinion because he did nothing to correct the record. This is not a one off comment. It's a consistent theme on their stream.

We were two years into this conversation prior to COVID. Sure, there have been issues related to COVID and keeping the business running, but developing video games is also a profession that easily lends itself to remote production.

There is zero evidence that they are working on performance issues. In more than four years of this discussion things have degraded, not improved. So even if they are "working on it", they have provided no details of any kind, just their words with negative results. So expecting anyone to believe they are actually working on performance issues at this point doesn't fly.

EdmondDontes

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Sylvermynx wrote: »

The issue is that ZOS is supposed to manage its employees in a way that - uh.... should be professional, considering they're a large AAA game publisher. And in this case, they didn't do so: they turned a blind eye to the insertion of a non-employee (a developer's wife) into a more or less official public media stream - and that particular non-employee (unless of course she IS an employee in some capacity - which players cannot be reliably expected to know) made some remarks that are.... denigrative to those to whom pvp is serious business not to mention the reason those people PLAY the game.

It was NOT an official stream in any capacity. Not only is entirely his personal stream with a lot of content about his personal life, the proceeeds go to animal rescue unaffiliated with ZOS. It was her personal hour to talk and she was mostly there to talk about that, accessibility in gaming, and her personal life NOT the game. The question was asked at an inappropriate time and she got annoyed and gave a totally inappropriate answer.

That's what actually happened. He should apologize anyway because whenever he's facing the public, he's representing zos. It goes with such a job.

But this was NOT part of his work for them at all

In no way was the questioner wrong to ask the question. The response is what is wrong. And with Rich right behind her obviously aware of what she says and not correcting the record, it is virtually guaranteed he shares her opinions. Specifically, the opinion that anyone not happy with performance should play another game instead of complaining to ZOS about it. This is what she repeatedly says in streams.

spartaxoxo

VaranisArano wrote: »

Suggestion for the Communications Team: If you want to take the heat off of Rich and his Stream as one of the few ways to actually have a real back-and-forth conversation with one of the Devs, have you considered providing more official versions of the type of information he's sharing on stream? Even regular Q&As or Ask Me Anythings might help.

I honestly agree 100% that that's needed. The reason people are pestering Rich so much is because he's the only source of frequent and consistent communication. I really hope the solution is we get more official streams and not Rich just stops doing it because he doesn't want to deal with things like things. It's pretty obvious to me that the lack of this is the core of how this happened.