The Orb Change is a GOOD Thing

Vercingetorix

Seriously, not spamming orbs is a GOOD thing - healers now need to develop a proper rotation of different synergies and heals. DPS and Tank team members need to adjust their builds to rely less on orbs or benefit more from them with the Harmony trait. Your group's DPS will go down form this patch - this is unavoidable and was the goal of this patch, but you will still clear trials regardless and that is ultimately what matters.

It's time to learn how to play the game as a healer - not spam a single spell throughout a boss fight. Many of the folks that are complaining about the orb change are the same folks who love to hate on Werewolves for their "brainless" LA spam, but to be quite honest, healers do the same damn thing with their orbs. There's plenty of synergies to take advantage of - many of which you've regarded as "bad" over the years and now with this patch you are being forced to consider them. This is a healthy change for the game.

You want healing to have a place in ESO?
You want to have an element of skill be involved with healing in ESO?

This patch is your moment - adapt and prove you are a healer. We'll see who the real healers are in ESO soon enough.

RogueShark

Actually everyone can synergize the same orb now, so all it's done was made being a battery for DPS more braindead. It will be mildly inconvenient in things like vAS+2, but not horribly so.
Instead we get to spam combat prayer in a line to heal people up. Sounds like a blast over spamming two skills + trying to keep CBP up along eith your other buffs/debuffs. Definitely more skillful.

CP5

Please describe how you would support your group as group healer in asylum then.

code65536

Man, those healers are just casting nothing but orbs these days.


Thanks for exposing your ignorance on the forums, though.

Sergykid

looks quite unbalanced tho. Wouldn't it be nice if the under 5% spells have a better impact, instead of two spells to have 25% impact out of 18 abilities?

Chicharron

It is not the end of the world for healers, i still remember the first great nerf that they gave to the Templars, we adapt well.

What i do not like are his arguments.

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

Please also remember that we've introduced some new abilities to help offset the loss of things such as Healing Springs stacking, with abilities like Ring of Preservation, or the large increase to Cleansing Ritual.

I fail to see how a warden will be able to use Cleansing Ritual.

Every time i play less, and now that i read the patch notes i have no intention of renewing my membership until i see the changes.

The drastic changes that make each major update are more typical of amateurs, i can expect that in a Nexus Skyrim mod, not here

Dagoth_Rac

code65536 wrote: »

Weapon swap OP. Stop spamming it, healbot.

Dojohoda

I've been spamming orbs lately on my Templar. I have a lot of orb to get outta my system before next update.

RogueShark

Chicharron wrote: »

It is not the end of the world for healers, i still remember the first great nerf that they gave to the Templars, we adapt well.

What i do not like are his arguments.

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

Please also remember that we've introduced some new abilities to help offset the loss of things such as Healing Springs stacking, with abilities like Ring of Preservation, or the large increase to Cleansing Ritual.

I fail to see how a warden will be able to use Cleansing Ritual.

Imagine how it's going to be for classes that don't have multiple class heals like warden.
They didn't think these changes through for anyone but templar, it seems.

xeNNNNN

Just to be clear, most good healers already have their own rotations based on the content they do.

Secondly, there are mechanics in the game that necessitate spamming as the only way to heal through the damage. Thats just how it is.

The changes they've made to other healing skills is not enough generally speaking to beat back a lot of mechanics that do require spam. Did you even give a thought to none templar healers as well?

You think the spam is over?

Are you unaware of the fact that those who you claim are just spammers will now be forced to spam combat prayer?

Even the changes to Combat Prayer indicate ZoS want us to spam prayer more - it got a cost reduction.

It is not a good thing when the respective content is not altered to compliment the changes. This is a bad balance method.

BigBragg

Sergykid wrote: »

looks quite unbalanced tho. Wouldn't it be nice if the under 5% spells have a better impact, instead of two spells to have 25% impact out of 18 abilities?

That is how the game works on most accounts. Rotations set up buffs, debuff, and sustain your most effective skills. With some heavy hitting buttons thrown in for burst moments.

Vercingetorix

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RogueShark wrote: »

Chicharron wrote: »

It is not the end of the world for healers, i still remember the first great nerf that they gave to the Templars, we adapt well.

What i do not like are his arguments.

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

Please also remember that we've introduced some new abilities to help offset the loss of things such as Healing Springs stacking, with abilities like Ring of Preservation, or the large increase to Cleansing Ritual.

I fail to see how a warden will be able to use Cleansing Ritual.

Imagine how it's going to be for classes that don't have multiple class heals like warden.
They didn't think these changes through for anyone but templar, it seems.

Nightblades have Refreshing Path
Sorcerers have Twlight Matriarch and Major Vitality through their Encase skill
Dragonknights have Cinder Storm and Major Mending through their Obsidian Shield skill

Also, Siphon Spirit no longer has a cast time so magicka/life steal can be placed easily on major targets. Blood Altar now costs health and no longer has a cast time. ZoS is adding buffs in other places alongside the tools that already exist on other classes. There ARE options - it's just folks resisting the change. Others will adapt and do just fine next patch.

RogueShark

Vercingetorix wrote: »

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RogueShark wrote: »

Chicharron wrote: »

It is not the end of the world for healers, i still remember the first great nerf that they gave to the Templars, we adapt well.

What i do not like are his arguments.

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

Please also remember that we've introduced some new abilities to help offset the loss of things such as Healing Springs stacking, with abilities like Ring of Preservation, or the large increase to Cleansing Ritual.

I fail to see how a warden will be able to use Cleansing Ritual.

Imagine how it's going to be for classes that don't have multiple class heals like warden.
They didn't think these changes through for anyone but templar, it seems.

Nightblades have Refreshing Path
Sorcerers have Twlight Matriarch and Major Vitality through their Encase skill
Dragonknights have Cinder Storm and Major Mending through their Obsidian Shield skill

Also, Siphon Spirit no longer has a cast time so magicka/life steal can be placed easily on major targets. Blood Altar now costs health and no longer has a cast time. ZoS is adding buffs in other places alongside the tools that already exist on other classes. There ARE options - it's just folks resisting the change. Others will adapt and do just fine next patch.

Twilight Matriarch is a burst heal, not an AoE hot to combat massive incoming damage like baneful in vCR execute or beam in Lokke HM. And... you realize encase major vit applies only to the sorc... right?

Vercingetorix

xeNNNNN wrote: »

Just to be clear, most good healers already have their own rotations based on the content they do.

Secondly, there are mechanics in the game that necessitate spamming as the only way to heal through the damage. Thats just how it is.

The changes they've made to other healing skills is not enough generally speaking to beat back a lot of mechanics that do require spam. Did you even give a thought to none templar healers as well?

You think the spam is over?

Are you unaware of the fact that those who you claim are just spammers will now be forced to spam combat prayer?

Even the changes to Combat Prayer indicate ZoS want us to spam prayer more - it got a cost reduction.

It is not a good thing when the respective content is not altered to compliment the changes. This is a bad balance method.

If you considered that the healing changes ZoS is making are intended to lower overall group DPS by forcing the DPS players to invest in defenses/sustain in order to continue to perform adequately? Heal spamming is not a requirement to the extreme you are suggesting. Perhaps your group's composition is putting more pressure on you to spam heals? Based on the patch notes I'd say that healers are now expected to do most of the healing but DPS and tanks will be expected to supply more self-healing of their own than they currently do now, if at all. There are many trial groups where the DPS do no healing of their own because "it's a DPS loss" and expect the healer to do all of it - this patch puts an end to most of that. DPS now have to invest in defensive skills to some degree or start wiping because with this patch healers can no longer do all of the healing. I really like this patch - it forces a more well-rounded approach to builds, especially DPS.

SassiestAssassin

While I agree, orbs shouldn’t be spammed, the healer’s toolkit just got more limited. Healing has been on its way out of vet dungeons almost completely as we can only really buff, give orbs, and, rarely, provide a big burst of massive healing during certain mechanics. This because nearly all other damage is one shot.

Springs is usually the stackable ‘uh oh that was a big hit!’ heal- think Execution stage CR. Being a hybrid AoE, it is useful to keep up with constantly moving groups (which make regular AoEs, like Warden’s healing seed and even enchanted growth less useful than Springs.)

So healers are losing 1) ability to return resources aka the one thing they can do facing a one shot boss and 2) mobility to keep up with constantly moving groups.

I would feel better if orbs remained unlimited, but with increasing cost with each cast (also with the same speed/distance covered, multiple synergies, and larger activation radius. The numbers could be nerfed a bit, since the other stuff is improvement.) Do the same thing with Springs etc: leave function alone, multiply cost for each cast to discourage spam.

Also, it’s a bit wild nerfing an entire role, leaving only 2 classes as real contenders for healing. You’re going to have to work really hard to prove that any class outside Wardens and Templars can use only their class skills to heal (but without spamming one of course! The cardinal sin!)

I will adapt, my endgame Warden healer will survive, but will probably be replaced in most content by another DPS using Vigor if the patch goes through. So that’s why I’m frustrated with the proposed changes.

Though if you have a healer, I’m all ears to hear how you’re rebuilding your skill set in PTS Vet content. Seriously, anyone? Where do we start to build up relevance again in this new patch? I’m desperate enough to visit the forums to find an answer to why the healing nerf in particular is a good idea.

Chicharron

Vercingetorix wrote: »

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RogueShark wrote: »

Chicharron wrote: »

It is not the end of the world for healers, i still remember the first great nerf that they gave to the Templars, we adapt well.

What i do not like are his arguments.

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

Please also remember that we've introduced some new abilities to help offset the loss of things such as Healing Springs stacking, with abilities like Ring of Preservation, or the large increase to Cleansing Ritual.

I fail to see how a warden will be able to use Cleansing Ritual.

Imagine how it's going to be for classes that don't have multiple class heals like warden.
They didn't think these changes through for anyone but templar, it seems.

Nightblades have Refreshing Path
Sorcerers have Twlight Matriarch and Major Vitality through their Encase skill
Dragonknights have Cinder Storm and Major Mending through their Obsidian Shield skill

Also, Siphon Spirit no longer has a cast time so magicka/life steal can be placed easily on major targets. Blood Altar now costs health and no longer has a cast time. ZoS is adding buffs in other places alongside the tools that already exist on other classes. There ARE options - it's just folks resisting the change. Others will adapt and do just fine next patch.

I do not know other classes but i talk about my Templar.

ZOS does not want me to spam Orbs like idiot, and i really only use it in different situations, hardly spam Orbs.

What ZOS wants for me to spam other skills like idiot, e.g. combat prayer.

That does not make any sense.

FelixTheCatt

Vercingetorix wrote: »

Seriously, not spamming orbs is a GOOD thing - healers now need to develop a proper rotation of different synergies and heals. DPS and Tank team members need to adjust their builds to rely less on orbs or benefit more from them with the Harmony trait. Your group's DPS will go down form this patch - this is unavoidable and was the goal of this patch, but you will still clear trials regardless and that is ultimately what matters.

It's time to learn how to play the game as a healer - not spam a single spell throughout a boss fight. Many of the folks that are complaining about the orb change are the same folks who love to hate on Werewolves for their "brainless" LA spam, but to be quite honest, healers do the same damn thing with their orbs. There's plenty of synergies to take advantage of - many of which you've regarded as "bad" over the years and now with this patch you are being forced to consider them. This is a healthy change for the game.

You want healing to have a place in ESO?
You want to have an element of skill be involved with healing in ESO?

This patch is your moment - adapt and prove you are a healer. We'll see who the real healers are in ESO soon enough.

Or just quit healing and go play something better. Good idea , thanks!

RogueShark

Vercingetorix wrote: »

If you considered that the healing changes ZoS is making are intended to lower overall group DPS by forcing the DPS players to invest in defenses/sustain in order to continue to perform adequately? Heal spamming is not a requirement to the extreme you are suggesting. Perhaps your group's composition is putting more pressure on you to spam heals? Based on the patch notes I'd say that healers are now expected to do most of the healing but DPS and tanks will be expected to supply more self-healing of their own than they currently do now, if at all. There are many trial groups where the DPS do no healing of their own because "it's a DPS loss" and expect the healer to do all of it - this patch puts an end to most of that. DPS now have to invest in defensive skills to some degree or start wiping because with this patch healers can no longer do all of the healing. I really like this patch - it forces a more well-rounded approach to builds, especially DPS.

Why bring a healer? Healers are really only relevant in trials; all four man content can be done without a healer.
If DPS have to build for sustain and healing anyway, how is this making healers valuable? This is like saying the tank shouldn't be expected to tank everything, that healers should build for tanking because tanks should no longer be able to do all the tanking...

DjMuscleboy02

Amazing. Every word of what you just said was wrong.

Linaleah

RogueShark wrote: »

Chicharron wrote: »

It is not the end of the world for healers, i still remember the first great nerf that they gave to the Templars, we adapt well.

What i do not like are his arguments.

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

Please also remember that we've introduced some new abilities to help offset the loss of things such as Healing Springs stacking, with abilities like Ring of Preservation, or the large increase to Cleansing Ritual.

I fail to see how a warden will be able to use Cleansing Ritual.

Imagine how it's going to be for classes that don't have multiple class heals like warden.
They didn't think these changes through for anyone but templar, it seems.

yep. that was my problem.

and unless my eyes decieve me, cinderstorm is getting a nerf. among other things. refreshing path already got a nerf a while ago and its a ground based hot with lets face it.. piddling amount of healing, at least from my experience, feels almost not worth casting a lot of the time. at least back when it dealt damage along with a heal, I used it similarly to ritual.

and the thing is... progression high end groups will adjust one way or another. but what about people middle of the road, the puggers, that dungeon runners. orbs helped SO much in groups where dps loves to run around like headless chickens, and before any of you say anything like "they'll just have to learn" NO. no they will not. never have. never will. its just going to make a lot of dungeons all but unpuggable unless you are playing one of the designated healer classes.

but what do I know, I'm just a mediocre player, who pays my subscription, plays variety of content as the mood strikes and is not and will never be leet. people like me don't matter, our comfort doesn't matter right? right? >_>

xeNNNNN

Vercingetorix wrote: »

xeNNNNN wrote: »

Just to be clear, most good healers already have their own rotations based on the content they do.

Secondly, there are mechanics in the game that necessitate spamming as the only way to heal through the damage. Thats just how it is.

The changes they've made to other healing skills is not enough generally speaking to beat back a lot of mechanics that do require spam. Did you even give a thought to none templar healers as well?

You think the spam is over?

Are you unaware of the fact that those who you claim are just spammers will now be forced to spam combat prayer?

Even the changes to Combat Prayer indicate ZoS want us to spam prayer more - it got a cost reduction.

It is not a good thing when the respective content is not altered to compliment the changes. This is a bad balance method.

If you considered that the healing changes ZoS is making are intended to lower overall group DPS by forcing the DPS players to invest in defenses/sustain in order to continue to perform adequately? Heal spamming is not a requirement to the extreme you are suggesting. Perhaps your group's composition is putting more pressure on you to spam heals? Based on the patch notes I'd say that healers are now expected to do most of the healing but DPS and tanks will be expected to supply more self-healing of their own than they currently do now, if at all. There are many trial groups where the DPS do no healing of their own because "it's a DPS loss" and expect the healer to do all of it - this patch puts an end to most of that. DPS now have to invest in defensive skills to some degree or start wiping because with this patch healers can no longer do all of the healing. I really like this patch - it forces a more well-rounded approach to builds, especially DPS.

Do you not see the problem with this position though?

Its fine for the higher endgame groups who are always blazing through HMs, but not entry level groups or progression groups that were already struggling. This is my main concern. People spam not because they only know how to spam but because they're at the mercy of the people they're playing with as well on top of the content.

It necessitates spam because you cannot control what other people do only they can do that, obviously its again fine for top tier groups because they will just do it but the average player will suffer as a result and the content in question ultimately will be far more difficult for a lot of people. People shouldn't just be hit with a brick wall like that.

The skill floor has been raised a lot with these changes we want endgame to excel not be limited. Hell its just going to be templar healers for the most part now which means diversity at endgame will suck as well, probably wardens as well for that committed lot.

It would of been better to simply lower the healing numbers of the abilities respectively rather than completely changing their functionality like this.

Heelie

Healing over time allows global cooldowns to be utilized for further group support, if anything the insane healing from orbs and springs allowed healers to push the limits of their capabilities. I don't see how clap healing trials does this in any way

leepalmer95

So instead of helping sustain and doing the majority of your healing with 1 skill spam. Now you'll have too only use orb once every so often for sustain help and heal using other skills.

Therefore reducing the spam. I see nothing wrong with it.

CP5

leepalmer95 wrote: »

So instead of helping sustain and doing the majority of your healing with 1 skill spam. Now you'll have too only use orb once every so often for sustain help and heal using other skills.

Therefore reducing the spam. I see nothing wrong with it.

You know, because rather than 'spamming' (aka, maintaining the needed number of orbs and springs) we'll instead be spamming combat prayer because springs is garbage in any real fight. Care to address that?

CipherNine

just another clueless player that doesn't do the content that he is speaking about. Go back to your solo questing and overland delves and stop acting like you know about the aspect of the game you dont play.

Dont even act like you do. Because anyone with experience with vet trials wouldnt be saying something as dumb as this.

therift

Are we in the ACCEPTANCE stage of the Five Stages of Patch Note Grief now?

I didn't get the memo.

SassiestAssassin

leepalmer95 wrote: »

So instead of helping sustain and doing the majority of your healing with 1 skill spam. Now you'll have too only use orb once every so often for sustain help and heal using other skills.

Therefore reducing the spam. I see nothing wrong with it.

The problem is, there aren’t really any viable skills to use to keep up with your standard group. My comment above goes into detail.

Basically, I agree orbs are too spammy, but good healers only spam Springs when we have to, since nothing offers mobility plus survivable heals. The patch notes offer no alternatives.

code65536

leepalmer95 wrote: »

So instead of helping sustain and doing the majority of your healing with 1 skill spam. Now you'll have too only use orb once every so often for sustain help and heal using other skills.

Therefore reducing the spam. I see nothing wrong with it.

Did you even read the post above yours?

Propagate

Clearly you know nothing about end game healing if you think we are complaining because all we do is throw orbs. Besides the synergy for resources the strong HoT from orbs actually freed us up to have a rotation and support the group dps. It meant we could throw a couple orbs then apply olorime/IA, Potl, spiders, ritual, shard to the tank, combat prayer, horn etc.
Buff/debuff uptimes is honestly the most engaging and fun aspect of ESO healing. It gives the role depth and made us more than heal bots. Weaker HoT means more time just having to be a heal bot.

peacenote

Vercingetorix wrote: »

Seriously, not spamming orbs is a GOOD thing - healers now need to develop a proper rotation of different synergies and heals [snip]

It's time to learn how to play the game as a healer - not spam a single spell throughout a boss fight [snip]

You want healing to have a place in ESO?
You want to have an element of skill be involved with healing in ESO? [snip]

This patch is your moment - adapt and prove you are a healer. We'll see who the real healers are in ESO soon enough.

Wow. I was an effective healer long before orbs were a thing, and I am not the only one. I don't need to prove myself to anyone. To assume that all healers have no skill and do not know how to play without orbs is an awful thing to say to the community as a justification for these changes and is quite insulting to the majority of your fellow healers.

• Most healers do not just use one ability.
• Most healers have a rotation, and they tend to be pretty complicated at that. They cannot just be memorized but are more of a dynamic priority system which requires good awareness of the fights and a lot of resource management.
• No one, outside of possibly ZOS, has access to information that logs ALL of the clicks for ALL of the fights done by ALL of the healers since the introduction of the orb skill into general meta, which means no one in this community can possibly say healers are rocking "improper" rotations and need to be improved. We can each only speak to what we personally do, and at best can speak anecdotally for what we have seen other healers do. Those two different experiences cannot possibly represent all healers or even most healers. Unless someone has taken the time to play both console and PC, has accounts on both EU and NA, and has made an ongoing list of all characters that heal and experienced multiple encounters with each of them!

Stop perpetuating the idea that all or most healers only spam orbs and that the reason for our objections to the changes is because we do not know how or refuse to use other skills. All of that is extremely false and is exactly how and why very bad proposed patch changes go live.

Many healers objecting to the changes are doing so because they feel they are detrimental for the overall game experience and flexibility of the role. I am not sure I have even seen a single post that says "I object to these changes because I don't want to learn to use other abilities." or "I am upset because you made healing more difficult and I want it to be easy." The points being raised are nuanced and address known gaps and issues with the other healing abilities.

If you like the changes, that's great! I am being serious and not at all sarcastic. We all can't like everything and it is definitely a better experience for the players who enjoy changes that are introduced because they are happy about them.

However, as a longtime healer in this game, I respectfully request that you consider NOT defending the changes when others raise concerns with false information, broad assumptions, and sweeping statements that completely ignore the reasoning behind the objections that have been voiced. By all means, be happy about the changes, but please don't make assumptions about how the rest of us heal and what we are thinking.

Luckylancer

Healers wont spam springs and orbs. Maybe they can switch to 12 second morp. This means there will be huge gaps in rotation to fill as healers see fit. Not that bad.