The Orb Change is a GOOD Thing

CP5

Luckylancer wrote: »

Healers wont spam springs and orbs. Maybe they can switch to 12 second morp. This means there will be huge gaps in rotation to fill as healers see fit. Not that bad.

With what, combat prayer spam? Healers know how to handle already and don't need their skills butchered to be taught to do it "better".

snarkomatic

CP5 wrote: »

Luckylancer wrote: »

Healers wont spam springs and orbs. Maybe they can switch to 12 second morp. This means there will be huge gaps in rotation to fill as healers see fit. Not that bad.

With what, combat prayer spam? Healers know how to handle already and don't need their skills butchered to be taught to do it "better".

Like ... exactly, tho. Why is CBP spam being treated as some be-all-end-all solution to springs/orb "spam"? God forbid we layer predictive HoTs to weave buff/debuffs with, it's way better if we just rush through debuffs and then go back to spamming our only useable AoE heal at the tightly-stacked group?

If we had options, fine, cool, but so far we have seen nothing that can numerically hold up to what we had before. And that would also be fine if heal checks in vet trials had not also been built around what we had before ... but they are ... sooo ......

CP5

snarkomatic wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

Luckylancer wrote: »

Healers wont spam springs and orbs. Maybe they can switch to 12 second morp. This means there will be huge gaps in rotation to fill as healers see fit. Not that bad.

With what, combat prayer spam? Healers know how to handle already and don't need their skills butchered to be taught to do it "better".

Like ... exactly, tho. Why is CBP spam being treated as some be-all-end-all solution to springs/orb "spam"? God forbid we layer predictive HoTs to weave buff/debuffs with, it's way better if we just rush through debuffs and then go back to spamming our only useable AoE heal at the tightly-stacked group?

If we had options, fine, cool, but so far we have seen nothing that can numerically hold up to what we had before. And that would also be fine if heal checks in vet trials had not also been built around what we had before ... but they are ... sooo ......

Doesn't help that springs has almost not changed since launch and the game has been built around it.

ezio45

I dont main a healer, figure ill throw my 2 cents in anyway.

As far as my healer having an actual proper rotation, id take orbs in there current state on live any day over that. We dont need heals really, ya in some trials we do. The vast majority of everything in this game is avoid or be 1 shot. Not a real need for healing. Sustain though? Sustain is something that I definitely need. Zos has nerfed sustain over and over to the point where the only class I can think of that can sustain without help is pet sorc and thats because there rotation Is just heavy attacks.

Secondly, nerfing a good skill into the ground doesnt make it other trash synergies good.

Thirdly, Im sick enough of adjusting my build from my own nerfs. I dont want to adjust my build for my healers nerfs too.

xeNNNNN

leepalmer95 wrote: »

So instead of helping sustain and doing the majority of your healing with 1 skill spam. Now you'll have too only use orb once every so often for sustain help and heal using other skills.

Therefore reducing the spam. I see nothing wrong with it.

No good healer is spamming the same thing 24/7.

Most of us are getting heals out initially then making sure all of our debuffs and buffs have a good uptime and getting as many synergies out there in order to to help the tank proc off things like alkosh and such. Meaning anyone just spamming springs or orbs has likely horrible off-balance, minor sorcery and minor fracture, minor breach up times. (unless of course they are not templar in which as far as I know they wouldn't have access to minor sorcery).

There is more to healing in this game and being good at it than just mindlessly spamming 24/7. Idk where on earth any of you get this crap from.

What you think people are going to start doing is what good healers have already been doing.

ccfeeling

code65536 wrote: »

Man, those healers are just casting nothing but orbs these days.


Thanks for exposing your ignorance on the forums, though.

Nerf weapon swap please, too OP

DisgracefulMind

Vercingetorix wrote: »

xeNNNNN wrote: »

Just to be clear, most good healers already have their own rotations based on the content they do.

Secondly, there are mechanics in the game that necessitate spamming as the only way to heal through the damage. Thats just how it is.

The changes they've made to other healing skills is not enough generally speaking to beat back a lot of mechanics that do require spam. Did you even give a thought to none templar healers as well?

You think the spam is over?

Are you unaware of the fact that those who you claim are just spammers will now be forced to spam combat prayer?

Even the changes to Combat Prayer indicate ZoS want us to spam prayer more - it got a cost reduction.

It is not a good thing when the respective content is not altered to compliment the changes. This is a bad balance method.

If you considered that the healing changes ZoS is making are intended to lower overall group DPS by forcing the DPS players to invest in defenses/sustain in order to continue to perform adequately? Heal spamming is not a requirement to the extreme you are suggesting. Perhaps your group's composition is putting more pressure on you to spam heals? Based on the patch notes I'd say that healers are now expected to do most of the healing but DPS and tanks will be expected to supply more self-healing of their own than they currently do now, if at all. There are many trial groups where the DPS do no healing of their own because "it's a DPS loss" and expect the healer to do all of it - this patch puts an end to most of that. DPS now have to invest in defensive skills to some degree or start wiping because with this patch healers can no longer do all of the healing. I really like this patch - it forces a more well-rounded approach to builds, especially DPS.

Um, isn't that the point of a healer? xd

Sanguinor2

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

Um, isn't that the point of a healer? xd

Guess the People arguing that the changes are good Arent sure whats actually the Point of a healer. First its " HEalERz ShouLDNt be BuFFb!tchES" now they Arent supposed to heal? Whats next? Have all healers been playing it wrong and they shouldve come in rele and lokke to Trials?

Jeremy

Vercingetorix wrote: »

Seriously, not spamming orbs is a GOOD thing - healers now need to develop a proper rotation of different synergies and heals. DPS and Tank team members need to adjust their builds to rely less on orbs or benefit more from them with the Harmony trait. Your group's DPS will go down form this patch - this is unavoidable and was the goal of this patch, but you will still clear trials regardless and that is ultimately what matters.

It's time to learn how to play the game as a healer - not spam a single spell throughout a boss fight. Many of the folks that are complaining about the orb change are the same folks who love to hate on Werewolves for their "brainless" LA spam, but to be quite honest, healers do the same damn thing with their orbs. There's plenty of synergies to take advantage of - many of which you've regarded as "bad" over the years and now with this patch you are being forced to consider them. This is a healthy change for the game.

You want healing to have a place in ESO?
You want to have an element of skill be involved with healing in ESO?

This patch is your moment - adapt and prove you are a healer. We'll see who the real healers are in ESO soon enough.

Yeah I agree. Spamming orbs was stupid and I'm glad to see it go extinct.

Healing on this game desperately needed some attention anyway. It just wasn't very interesting and the changes I have seen thus far look promising. At least on paper. I'm looking forward to trying them out.

Jeremy

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

Vercingetorix wrote: »

xeNNNNN wrote: »

Just to be clear, most good healers already have their own rotations based on the content they do.

Secondly, there are mechanics in the game that necessitate spamming as the only way to heal through the damage. Thats just how it is.

The changes they've made to other healing skills is not enough generally speaking to beat back a lot of mechanics that do require spam. Did you even give a thought to none templar healers as well?

You think the spam is over?

Are you unaware of the fact that those who you claim are just spammers will now be forced to spam combat prayer?

Even the changes to Combat Prayer indicate ZoS want us to spam prayer more - it got a cost reduction.

It is not a good thing when the respective content is not altered to compliment the changes. This is a bad balance method.

If you considered that the healing changes ZoS is making are intended to lower overall group DPS by forcing the DPS players to invest in defenses/sustain in order to continue to perform adequately? Heal spamming is not a requirement to the extreme you are suggesting. Perhaps your group's composition is putting more pressure on you to spam heals? Based on the patch notes I'd say that healers are now expected to do most of the healing but DPS and tanks will be expected to supply more self-healing of their own than they currently do now, if at all. There are many trial groups where the DPS do no healing of their own because "it's a DPS loss" and expect the healer to do all of it - this patch puts an end to most of that. DPS now have to invest in defensive skills to some degree or start wiping because with this patch healers can no longer do all of the healing. I really like this patch - it forces a more well-rounded approach to builds, especially DPS.

Um, isn't that the point of a healer? xd

It is. And the changes to regeneration looks like it might actually make healers more effective at healing DPS - so they can actually do their jobs without demanding everyone stack or stay in front of them - which just isn't a realistic expectation on this game.

Healers need to have the tools to be dependable - otherwise damage dealers are just going to opt to heal themselves instead. Which is what many of them were ending up doing (and for good reasons) and why healers weren't considered necessary or even desirable in a lot of content.

Sanguinor2

Jeremy wrote: »

It is. And the changes to regeneration looks like it might aactually make healers more effective at healing DPS - so they can actually do their jobs without demanding everyone stack or stay in front of them - which just isn't a realistic expectation on this game.

Healers need to have the tools to be dependable - otherwise damage dealers are just going to opt to heal themselves instead. Which is what many of them were ending up doing (and for good reasons) and why healers weren't considered necessary or even desirable in a lot of content.

What is it with People bringing up Regeneration? You just Talking About 4 man Content by any Chance? If so just ditch the healer, why would you take one? Just have the tank cast one orb once every while and have stamdds with vigor, everyone good.

If not, good luck spamming Nothing but Regeneration to Keep it on 12 People with a 10 seconds Duration (or 5 if you take rapid regen) and with it only hitting 1 ally per cast.

kargen27

The change means some adjustments for my rotation but I'll figure it out. Now I throw a couple of orbs toward main group then get one on the way to the tank. Fights where the group is split now it is easy to get orbs going both ways inside my current rotation. With the change I'm not sure it will be more difficult but it will take a bit of getting used to. Working orbs in will have to be more well timed.
Shouldn't matter much at all in fights where I can line up and have one orb go through the group on the way to the tank.

Jeremy

Sanguinor2 wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

It is. And the changes to regeneration looks like it might aactually make healers more effective at healing DPS - so they can actually do their jobs without demanding everyone stack or stay in front of them - which just isn't a realistic expectation on this game.

Healers need to have the tools to be dependable - otherwise damage dealers are just going to opt to heal themselves instead. Which is what many of them were ending up doing (and for good reasons) and why healers weren't considered necessary or even desirable in a lot of content.

What is it with People bringing up Regeneration? You just Talking About 4 man Content by any Chance? If so just ditch the healer, why would you take one? Just have the tank cast one orb once every while and have stamdds with vigor, everyone good.

If not, good luck spamming Nothing but Regeneration to Keep it on 12 People with a 10 seconds Duration (or 5 if you take rapid regen) and with it only hitting 1 ally per cast.

I explained why I brought up regeneration. Because it appears to gives healers an effective and dependable heal to heal other players with so perhaps the DPS won't have to use vigor to heal themselves. They can actually rely on a healer to do it for them.

And not every ___ ____ comment on this forum has to specifically about 12 man veteran trials. I would imagine far more players do 4 man content on this game than veteran trials anyway. So please stop perpetuating this myth that every comment made on this forum must be about veteran trials and only veteran trials. It's getting very tedious. My comment was general and not meant in any specific context other than the fact this new regeneration should be an asset to healers. I've healed trials before anyway - and I still like the look of this new regeneration. But even if I hadn't so what? This is not a Veteran Trial only forum. People involved in other kinds of content have just as much a right to post their opinions on here as people who do trials.

Wabu

Every healer bind orbs to your F key. We salute you o7
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=coUFKGTrI8I

Sanguinor2

Jeremy wrote: »

I explained why I brought up regeneration. Because it gives healers an effective and dependable heal to heal other players with so perhaps the DPS won't have to use vigor to heal themselves. They can actually rely on a healer to do it for them.

And not every ___ ____ comment on this forum has to be in the context of 12 man veteran raids. I would imagine far more players do 4 man content on this game than veteran trials anyway. So please stop perpetuating this myth that every comment made on this forum must be about veteran trials. It's getting very tedious.

But 4 man Content doesnt even Need healing in most cases. And in those it does you can make do with the nerfed springs and orbs, you only Need to heal 3 Targets, flashheals like BoL will be fine and in 4 man Regeneration can be useful.

But in 12 man, where springs and orbs healing Output nerfs actually matters Regeneration wont come even close to being a viable alternative. Thats why most People are Talking About vet Trial healing because it actually suffers from the changes.

Jeremy

Sanguinor2 wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

I explained why I brought up regeneration. Because it gives healers an effective and dependable heal to heal other players with so perhaps the DPS won't have to use vigor to heal themselves. They can actually rely on a healer to do it for them.

And not every ___ ____ comment on this forum has to be in the context of 12 man veteran raids. I would imagine far more players do 4 man content on this game than veteran trials anyway. So please stop perpetuating this myth that every comment made on this forum must be about veteran trials. It's getting very tedious.

But 4 man Content doesnt even Need healing in most cases. And in those it does you can make do with the nerfed springs and orbs, you only Need to heal 3 Targets, flashheals like BoL will be fine and in 4 man Regeneration can be useful.

But in 12 man, where springs and orbs healing Output nerfs actually matters Regeneration wont come even close to being a viable alternative. Thats why most People are Talking About vet Trial healing because it actually suffers from the changes.

Nearly all 4 man content needs healing . It's ridiculous to say otherwise. It's just it was often easier and more dependable for people to just heal themselves because relying on a healer to do it could be tenuous due to all the positional restraints on their heals. I did the same thing myself when I played tank or DPS So I know exactly why people did it.

If you want better AoE healing options for large scale content I won't stand in your way. This game does need better healing spells generally and I've argued for them for years. But that doesn't mean the new regeneration isn't an improvement over the old - because it certainly looks to be to me. I suspect it's going to make healers more fun and effective to play in most if not all content.

snarkomatic

Sanguinor2 wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

I explained why I brought up regeneration. Because it gives healers an effective and dependable heal to heal other players with so perhaps the DPS won't have to use vigor to heal themselves. They can actually rely on a healer to do it for them.

And not every ___ ____ comment on this forum has to be in the context of 12 man veteran raids. I would imagine far more players do 4 man content on this game than veteran trials anyway. So please stop perpetuating this myth that every comment made on this forum must be about veteran trials. It's getting very tedious.

But 4 man Content doesnt even Need healing in most cases. And in those it does you can make do with the nerfed springs and orbs, you only Need to heal 3 Targets, flashheals like BoL will be fine and in 4 man Regeneration can be useful.

But in 12 man, where springs and orbs healing Output nerfs actually matters Regeneration wont come even close to being a viable alternative. Thats why most People are Talking About vet Trial healing because it actually suffers from the changes.

Yup, this.

Four man healing will indeed be more fun and more versatile now. You're not wrong.

But the issues trial healers are bringing up are not less valid for that fact. We are specifically focused on AoE heals for a reason! That being: we have no viable alternatives on live.

If this does not affect you, awesome! But .. it affects us, so, let us discuss that. Thanks.

Jeremy

snarkomatic wrote: »

Sanguinor2 wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

I explained why I brought up regeneration. Because it gives healers an effective and dependable heal to heal other players with so perhaps the DPS won't have to use vigor to heal themselves. They can actually rely on a healer to do it for them.

And not every ___ ____ comment on this forum has to be in the context of 12 man veteran raids. I would imagine far more players do 4 man content on this game than veteran trials anyway. So please stop perpetuating this myth that every comment made on this forum must be about veteran trials. It's getting very tedious.

But 4 man Content doesnt even Need healing in most cases. And in those it does you can make do with the nerfed springs and orbs, you only Need to heal 3 Targets, flashheals like BoL will be fine and in 4 man Regeneration can be useful.

But in 12 man, where springs and orbs healing Output nerfs actually matters Regeneration wont come even close to being a viable alternative. Thats why most People are Talking About vet Trial healing because it actually suffers from the changes.

Yup, this.

Four man healing will indeed be more fun and more versatile now. You're not wrong.

But the issues trial healers are bringing up are not less valid for that fact. We are specifically focused on AoE heals for a reason! That being: we have no viable alternatives on live.

If this does not affect you, awesome! But .. it affects us, so, let us discuss that. Thanks.

So discuss it. Who was standing in your way of discussing it?

People can post comments about how they like the new regeneration without somehow preventing you from discussing AoE healing. So I don't understand what your point is suppose to be.

There is more to this game than simply healing through some AoE phase during some veteran trial. Not every comment about this subject has to revolve around this one specific circumstance and it's extremely unreasonable to expect that it should.

snarkomatic

Jeremy wrote: »

snarkomatic wrote: »

Sanguinor2 wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

I explained why I brought up regeneration. Because it gives healers an effective and dependable heal to heal other players with so perhaps the DPS won't have to use vigor to heal themselves. They can actually rely on a healer to do it for them.

And not every ___ ____ comment on this forum has to be in the context of 12 man veteran raids. I would imagine far more players do 4 man content on this game than veteran trials anyway. So please stop perpetuating this myth that every comment made on this forum must be about veteran trials. It's getting very tedious.

But 4 man Content doesnt even Need healing in most cases. And in those it does you can make do with the nerfed springs and orbs, you only Need to heal 3 Targets, flashheals like BoL will be fine and in 4 man Regeneration can be useful.

But in 12 man, where springs and orbs healing Output nerfs actually matters Regeneration wont come even close to being a viable alternative. Thats why most People are Talking About vet Trial healing because it actually suffers from the changes.

Yup, this.

Four man healing will indeed be more fun and more versatile now. You're not wrong.

But the issues trial healers are bringing up are not less valid for that fact. We are specifically focused on AoE heals for a reason! That being: we have no viable alternatives on live.

If this does not affect you, awesome! But .. it affects us, so, let us discuss that. Thanks.

So discuss it. Who was standing in your way of discussing it?

People can post comments about how they like the new regeneration without somehow preventing you from discussing AoE heals. So I don't understand what your point is suppose to be.

I've been following this discussion for a few days, and I know people have attacked you. I am not one of those people.

However, you are the one who said "not every ___ ____ comment on this forum has to be in the context of 12 man veteran raids" ... so I was just responding to that remark. You don't understand why we are so focused on that specific context, and I am explaining to you the reason -- that being, that we are hyper-focused on AoE heals because that is the thing we (1) need most to keep 12 people up at the exact same time; and (2) are losing most.

Jeremy

snarkomatic wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

snarkomatic wrote: »

Sanguinor2 wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

I explained why I brought up regeneration. Because it gives healers an effective and dependable heal to heal other players with so perhaps the DPS won't have to use vigor to heal themselves. They can actually rely on a healer to do it for them.

And not every ___ ____ comment on this forum has to be in the context of 12 man veteran raids. I would imagine far more players do 4 man content on this game than veteran trials anyway. So please stop perpetuating this myth that every comment made on this forum must be about veteran trials. It's getting very tedious.

But 4 man Content doesnt even Need healing in most cases. And in those it does you can make do with the nerfed springs and orbs, you only Need to heal 3 Targets, flashheals like BoL will be fine and in 4 man Regeneration can be useful.

But in 12 man, where springs and orbs healing Output nerfs actually matters Regeneration wont come even close to being a viable alternative. Thats why most People are Talking About vet Trial healing because it actually suffers from the changes.

Yup, this.

Four man healing will indeed be more fun and more versatile now. You're not wrong.

But the issues trial healers are bringing up are not less valid for that fact. We are specifically focused on AoE heals for a reason! That being: we have no viable alternatives on live.

If this does not affect you, awesome! But .. it affects us, so, let us discuss that. Thanks.

So discuss it. Who was standing in your way of discussing it?

People can post comments about how they like the new regeneration without somehow preventing you from discussing AoE heals. So I don't understand what your point is suppose to be.

I've been following this discussion for a few days, and I know people have attacked you. I am not one of those people.

However, you are the one who said "not every ___ ____ comment on this forum has to be in the context of 12 man veteran raids" ... so I was just responding to that remark. You don't understand why we are so focused on that specific context, and I am explaining to you the reason -- that being, that we are hyper-focused on AoE heals because that is the thing we (1) need most to keep 12 people up at the exact same time; and (2) are losing most.

No one has attacked me that I saw. Disagreeing with me is not attacking me.

You can be focused on that one specific context if you want. I don't have any problem with that. What I have a problem with is when you expect everyone else to be as well.

My post in reference to regeneration in this thread had absolutely nothing to do with healing some AoE phase in a veteran trial. It had to with the fact it was going to make healers better at healing DPS - therefore they shouldn't have to use vigor as often. The reason healers are discarded in a lot of content is because they aren't as reliable as simply doing it yourself. These changes should help with that.

Sanguinor2

Jeremy wrote: »

So discuss it. Who was standing in your way of discussing it?

People can post comments about how they like the new regeneration without somehow preventing you from discussing AoE healing. So I don't understand what your point is suppose to be.

There is more to this game than simply healing through some AoE phase during some veteran trial. Not every comment about this subject has to revolve around this one specific circumstance and it's extremely unreasonable to expect that it should.

I personally commented on Regeneration because everyone Talking About healing in this thread is Talking About Trials. So I assumed that you too would talk About Trials and thats the reason for the answer you got from me.

snarkomatic

Jeremy wrote: »

snarkomatic wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

snarkomatic wrote: »

Sanguinor2 wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

I explained why I brought up regeneration. Because it gives healers an effective and dependable heal to heal other players with so perhaps the DPS won't have to use vigor to heal themselves. They can actually rely on a healer to do it for them.

And not every ___ ____ comment on this forum has to be in the context of 12 man veteran raids. I would imagine far more players do 4 man content on this game than veteran trials anyway. So please stop perpetuating this myth that every comment made on this forum must be about veteran trials. It's getting very tedious.

But 4 man Content doesnt even Need healing in most cases. And in those it does you can make do with the nerfed springs and orbs, you only Need to heal 3 Targets, flashheals like BoL will be fine and in 4 man Regeneration can be useful.

But in 12 man, where springs and orbs healing Output nerfs actually matters Regeneration wont come even close to being a viable alternative. Thats why most People are Talking About vet Trial healing because it actually suffers from the changes.

Yup, this.

Four man healing will indeed be more fun and more versatile now. You're not wrong.

But the issues trial healers are bringing up are not less valid for that fact. We are specifically focused on AoE heals for a reason! That being: we have no viable alternatives on live.

If this does not affect you, awesome! But .. it affects us, so, let us discuss that. Thanks.

So discuss it. Who was standing in your way of discussing it?

People can post comments about how they like the new regeneration without somehow preventing you from discussing AoE heals. So I don't understand what your point is suppose to be.

I've been following this discussion for a few days, and I know people have attacked you. I am not one of those people.

However, you are the one who said "not every ___ ____ comment on this forum has to be in the context of 12 man veteran raids" ... so I was just responding to that remark. You don't understand why we are so focused on that specific context, and I am explaining to you the reason -- that being, that we are hyper-focused on AoE heals because that is the thing we (1) need most to keep 12 people up at the exact same time; and (2) are losing most.

No one has attacked me that I saw. Disagreeing with me is not attacking me.

You can be focused on that one specific context if you want. I don't have any problem with that. What I have a problem with is when you expect everyone else to be as well.

My post in reference to regeneration in this thread had absolutely nothing to do with healing some AoE phase in a veteran trial. It had to with the fact it was going to make healers better at healing DPS - therefore they shouldn't have to use vigor as often. It had absolutely nothing to do with what you are talking about.

So you're being ultra-defensive for what reason, then? Lol.

We are all talking about (X) context. You should not be surprised when your (Y) context is disregarded.

Jeremy

Sanguinor2 wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

So discuss it. Who was standing in your way of discussing it?

People can post comments about how they like the new regeneration without somehow preventing you from discussing AoE healing. So I don't understand what your point is suppose to be.

There is more to this game than simply healing through some AoE phase during some veteran trial. Not every comment about this subject has to revolve around this one specific circumstance and it's extremely unreasonable to expect that it should.

I personally commented on Regeneration because everyone Talking About healing in this thread is Talking About Trials. So I assumed that you too would talk About Trials and thats the reason for the answer you got from me.

It was a general comment meant to apply to all content.

The new regeneration should work well as a tool to heal DPS in any content - including trials, 4 mans, anything that involves a player taking damage and not having to use vigor themselves. It makes healers more dependable - especially in circumstances where people are spread about and taking damage.

code65536

Jeremy wrote: »

Sanguinor2 wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

So discuss it. Who was standing in your way of discussing it?

People can post comments about how they like the new regeneration without somehow preventing you from discussing AoE healing. So I don't understand what your point is suppose to be.

There is more to this game than simply healing through some AoE phase during some veteran trial. Not every comment about this subject has to revolve around this one specific circumstance and it's extremely unreasonable to expect that it should.

I personally commented on Regeneration because everyone Talking About healing in this thread is Talking About Trials. So I assumed that you too would talk About Trials and thats the reason for the answer you got from me.

It was a general comment meant to apply to all content.

The new regeneration should work well as a tool to heal DPS in any content - including trials, 4 mans, anything that involves a player taking damage and not having to use vigor themselves. It makes healers more dependable - especially in circumstances where people are spread about and taking damage.

LOL

snarkomatic

Jeremy wrote: »

Sanguinor2 wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

So discuss it. Who was standing in your way of discussing it?

People can post comments about how they like the new regeneration without somehow preventing you from discussing AoE healing. So I don't understand what your point is suppose to be.

There is more to this game than simply healing through some AoE phase during some veteran trial. Not every comment about this subject has to revolve around this one specific circumstance and it's extremely unreasonable to expect that it should.

I personally commented on Regeneration because everyone Talking About healing in this thread is Talking About Trials. So I assumed that you too would talk About Trials and thats the reason for the answer you got from me.

It was a general comment meant to apply to all content.

The new regeneration should work well as a tool to heal DPS in any content - including trials, 4 mans, anything that involves a player taking damage and not having to use vigor themselves. It makes healers more dependable - especially in circumstances where people are spread about and taking damage.

But it literally does not, and that is why trial healers are saying you're wrong. A single-target, unreliable-target HoT does not work for us. Most healers don't run it in trials even as the dual-target HoT it is on live. This is not a thing that helps us, and definitely is not a thing that will account for the loss of multiple stacks of illustrious.

I appreciate your input, but it doesn't belong here.

Jeremy

snarkomatic wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

snarkomatic wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

snarkomatic wrote: »

Sanguinor2 wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

I explained why I brought up regeneration. Because it gives healers an effective and dependable heal to heal other players with so perhaps the DPS won't have to use vigor to heal themselves. They can actually rely on a healer to do it for them.

And not every ___ ____ comment on this forum has to be in the context of 12 man veteran raids. I would imagine far more players do 4 man content on this game than veteran trials anyway. So please stop perpetuating this myth that every comment made on this forum must be about veteran trials. It's getting very tedious.

But 4 man Content doesnt even Need healing in most cases. And in those it does you can make do with the nerfed springs and orbs, you only Need to heal 3 Targets, flashheals like BoL will be fine and in 4 man Regeneration can be useful.

But in 12 man, where springs and orbs healing Output nerfs actually matters Regeneration wont come even close to being a viable alternative. Thats why most People are Talking About vet Trial healing because it actually suffers from the changes.

Yup, this.

Four man healing will indeed be more fun and more versatile now. You're not wrong.

But the issues trial healers are bringing up are not less valid for that fact. We are specifically focused on AoE heals for a reason! That being: we have no viable alternatives on live.

If this does not affect you, awesome! But .. it affects us, so, let us discuss that. Thanks.

So discuss it. Who was standing in your way of discussing it?

People can post comments about how they like the new regeneration without somehow preventing you from discussing AoE heals. So I don't understand what your point is suppose to be.

I've been following this discussion for a few days, and I know people have attacked you. I am not one of those people.

However, you are the one who said "not every ___ ____ comment on this forum has to be in the context of 12 man veteran raids" ... so I was just responding to that remark. You don't understand why we are so focused on that specific context, and I am explaining to you the reason -- that being, that we are hyper-focused on AoE heals because that is the thing we (1) need most to keep 12 people up at the exact same time; and (2) are losing most.

No one has attacked me that I saw. Disagreeing with me is not attacking me.

You can be focused on that one specific context if you want. I don't have any problem with that. What I have a problem with is when you expect everyone else to be as well.

My post in reference to regeneration in this thread had absolutely nothing to do with healing some AoE phase in a veteran trial. It had to with the fact it was going to make healers better at healing DPS - therefore they shouldn't have to use vigor as often. It had absolutely nothing to do with what you are talking about.

So you're being ultra-defensive for what reason, then? Lol.

We are all talking about (X) context. You should not be surprised when your (Y) context is disregarded.

If you think this is me being ultra-defensive you have obviously never seen me ultra defensive.

jbjondeaueb17_ESO

Jeremy wrote: »

snarkomatic wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

snarkomatic wrote: »

Sanguinor2 wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

I explained why I brought up regeneration. Because it gives healers an effective and dependable heal to heal other players with so perhaps the DPS won't have to use vigor to heal themselves. They can actually rely on a healer to do it for them.

And not every ___ ____ comment on this forum has to be in the context of 12 man veteran raids. I would imagine far more players do 4 man content on this game than veteran trials anyway. So please stop perpetuating this myth that every comment made on this forum must be about veteran trials. It's getting very tedious.

But 4 man Content doesnt even Need healing in most cases. And in those it does you can make do with the nerfed springs and orbs, you only Need to heal 3 Targets, flashheals like BoL will be fine and in 4 man Regeneration can be useful.

But in 12 man, where springs and orbs healing Output nerfs actually matters Regeneration wont come even close to being a viable alternative. Thats why most People are Talking About vet Trial healing because it actually suffers from the changes.

Yup, this.

Four man healing will indeed be more fun and more versatile now. You're not wrong.

But the issues trial healers are bringing up are not less valid for that fact. We are specifically focused on AoE heals for a reason! That being: we have no viable alternatives on live.

If this does not affect you, awesome! But .. it affects us, so, let us discuss that. Thanks.

So discuss it. Who was standing in your way of discussing it?

People can post comments about how they like the new regeneration without somehow preventing you from discussing AoE heals. So I don't understand what your point is suppose to be.

I've been following this discussion for a few days, and I know people have attacked you. I am not one of those people.

However, you are the one who said "not every ___ ____ comment on this forum has to be in the context of 12 man veteran raids" ... so I was just responding to that remark. You don't understand why we are so focused on that specific context, and I am explaining to you the reason -- that being, that we are hyper-focused on AoE heals because that is the thing we (1) need most to keep 12 people up at the exact same time; and (2) are losing most.

No one has attacked me that I saw. Disagreeing with me is not attacking me.

You can be focused on that one specific context if you want. I don't have any problem with that. What I have a problem with is when you expect everyone else to be as well.

My post in reference to regeneration in this thread had absolutely nothing to do with healing some AoE phase in a veteran trial. It had to with the fact it was going to make healers better at healing DPS - therefore they shouldn't have to use vigor as often. The reason healers are discarded in a lot of content is because they aren't as reliable as simply doing it yourself. These changes should help with that.

The only players happy about the new Regeneration are PvPers, mostly solo one, in 4 man dungeons you are going to spam it more than orbs on trials on Live if you want to keep it active on players at all time : 4 GCDs to keep it on everybody including yourself for a 5 GCDs duration, that's way more skills needed, sure.

RavenSworn

There's pros and cons to this change. I can see how it can affect the endgame healers especially how enrage timers are massive heal drains for certain trials but ultimately, the way I see it, it's really now up to the group makeup and dynamics. Healers now must focus more on healing imo when in trials. I have a feeling there is a reason why the new tank set was focused on healing received, with the changes, you really need to have a tank that can have better tools to survive, than just a dps booster.

however on the other hand, with the fact that self healing like vigour is being buffed, there is a even more of a push for the 1 tank 3 dps meta in vet dungeons. that is worrisome for regular players who loves the healer role. Why have healers when you can now do even better as a pure dps / support?

Jeremy

snarkomatic wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Sanguinor2 wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

So discuss it. Who was standing in your way of discussing it?

People can post comments about how they like the new regeneration without somehow preventing you from discussing AoE healing. So I don't understand what your point is suppose to be.

There is more to this game than simply healing through some AoE phase during some veteran trial. Not every comment about this subject has to revolve around this one specific circumstance and it's extremely unreasonable to expect that it should.

I personally commented on Regeneration because everyone Talking About healing in this thread is Talking About Trials. So I assumed that you too would talk About Trials and thats the reason for the answer you got from me.

It was a general comment meant to apply to all content.

The new regeneration should work well as a tool to heal DPS in any content - including trials, 4 mans, anything that involves a player taking damage and not having to use vigor themselves. It makes healers more dependable - especially in circumstances where people are spread about and taking damage.

But it literally does not, and that is why trial healers are saying you're wrong. A single-target, unreliable-target HoT does not work for us. Most healers don't run it in trials even as the dual-target HoT it is on live. This is not a thing that helps us, and definitely is not a thing that will account for multiple stacks of illustrious.

I appreciate your input, but it doesn't belong here.

I've healed trials and I disagree with you.

The new regeneration looks nice - for any content.. And just because you disagree with someone - that doesn't mean their input doesn't "belong here". These forums don't belong to you. If you don't like my comments - I suggest you just ignore them.

snarkomatic

Jeremy wrote: »

snarkomatic wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Sanguinor2 wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

So discuss it. Who was standing in your way of discussing it?

People can post comments about how they like the new regeneration without somehow preventing you from discussing AoE healing. So I don't understand what your point is suppose to be.

There is more to this game than simply healing through some AoE phase during some veteran trial. Not every comment about this subject has to revolve around this one specific circumstance and it's extremely unreasonable to expect that it should.

I personally commented on Regeneration because everyone Talking About healing in this thread is Talking About Trials. So I assumed that you too would talk About Trials and thats the reason for the answer you got from me.

It was a general comment meant to apply to all content.

The new regeneration should work well as a tool to heal DPS in any content - including trials, 4 mans, anything that involves a player taking damage and not having to use vigor themselves. It makes healers more dependable - especially in circumstances where people are spread about and taking damage.

But it literally does not, and that is why trial healers are saying you're wrong. A single-target, unreliable-target HoT does not work for us. Most healers don't run it in trials even as the dual-target HoT it is on live. This is not a thing that helps us, and definitely is not a thing that will account for multiple stacks of illustrious.

I appreciate your input, but it doesn't belong here.

I've healed trials and I disagree with you.

The new regeneration looks nice. And just because you disagree with someone - that doesn't mean their input doesn't "belong here". These forums don't belong to you.

You're right, they don't! But .. this thread is pretty focused on VET trials and the loss healers are experiencing in that context. So you can share all the feedback you want for how this helps you and the content you do .. but that doesn't make it at all applicable to the content we do and the HPS we need.