Maintenance for the week of December 2:
• PC/Mac: NA and EU megaservers for patch maintenance – December 2, 4:00AM EST (9:00 UTC) - 9:00AM EST (14:00 UTC)
• Xbox: NA and EU megaservers for patch maintenance – December 4, 6:00AM EST (11:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EST (17:00 UTC)
• PlayStation®: NA and EU megaservers for patch maintenance – December 4, 6:00AM EST (11:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EST (17:00 UTC)
• PC/Mac: NA and EU megaservers for patch maintenance – December 2, 4:00AM EST (9:00 UTC) - 9:00AM EST (14:00 UTC)
• Xbox: NA and EU megaservers for patch maintenance – December 4, 6:00AM EST (11:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EST (17:00 UTC)
• PlayStation®: NA and EU megaservers for patch maintenance – December 4, 6:00AM EST (11:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EST (17:00 UTC)
The Orb Change is a GOOD Thing
-
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭NaranjaIslands wrote: »@Jeremy
You won, i give up, in 6 pages of one thread you are still stuck on repeat mode without giving only one single arguments.
When People are showing how wrong you are you Just say "im not speaking about that" and every time it s a different one
Never saw a stubborn person like you, Just keep playing like a New player you are right, Now People will Just kick you because you cant heal them...
Not going to answer after that. One last advice, keep working on your math
This person has told me, and others to just "put them on ignore". I have done so, and it doesn't fix the fact that I can still see others quoting them, so essentially their uninformed posts are still taking up an unnecessary amount of space.
Being that this is the first time I've put someone on ignore here, I just learned that you can have up to 12 users on ignore. So this one person has taken up 8% of my ignore list bandwidth, and I'm still able to see their posts when trying to read through this thread, etc.
The solution: Stop responding/ quoting/ engaging with this person. It's the only way that they can be ignored effectively. They are killing threads, and forcing us to sift through a whole bunch of garbage to find constructive conversation.
This isn't an isolated case, as I'm sure it's typical for a user or two to behave in a derailing manner when patch notes surface, but it is quite sad considering the fact that majority of the posts about the patch notes are reasonable and constructive to read through. Either way, it's not the end of the world, life goes on, etc. Let's try to stay on track so that this thread doesn't die like the last one.
For someone who doesn't like me to be quoted or engaged with you sure do like bringing me up.
Just ignore my quotes when someone quotes me. Because if anything is "garbage" it's you continuously going out of your way to trash another poster you claim you want others to ignore and stop engaging with. So walk the talk. Because you have only yourself to blame for these thread derails because it's poster like you who keep desperately trying to make me the topic. And I'm going to continue to defend myself when other people single me out for their ridicule. I'm not going to be your forum whipping boy who just sits quietly by while you proceed to insult them.
Some of us like these changes. I'm sorry if that upsets you - or if the arguments I make to support them strike you as so stupid you feel a need to insult me. But we do regardless. If you do not agree with my arguments as to why, that's fine. We can agree to disagree. But there is no cause to keep ridiculing me over it. You've had two solid days now of seeing me trashed on here for what I said and that ought to be sufficient for you.
Orb spamming was not a dynamic or interesting way to heal. It needed to be done away with. That doesn't mean I don't support ways to compensate for those changes if it is needed during "healchecks" in hard mode trials - which seems to be the concern of most of my critics here. But generally speaking I believe these changes are good for healers overall.Edited by Jeremy on July 12, 2019 6:59PM0 -
mairwen85✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Some of us like these changes. I'm sorry if that upsets you - or if the arguments I make to support them strike you as so stupid you feel a need to insult me. But we do regardless. If you do not agree with my arguments as to why, that's fine. We can agree to disagree. But there is no cause to keep ridiculing me over it. You've had two solid days now of seeing me trashed on here for what I said and that ought to be sufficient for you.
Orb spamming was not a dynamic or interesting way to heal. It needed to be done away with. That doesn't mean I don't support ways to compensate for those changes if it is needed during "healchecks" in hard mode trials - which seems to be the concern of most of my critics here. But generally speaking I believe these changes are good for healers overall.
It does pose an interesting quandary though, doesn't it. Weaker dots for trash management and lower ticks on bosses, total group dps cut by anything from 20-30% in most 4 man content -- weakened heals and less sustain aid, but improved individual utility -- does this make a healer role more desirable in said content? Or does it push groups to add an extra dps and all slot back bar hots / self heals / sustain aids to recuperate/compensate for the loss?
As for the bolded -- no such thing -- no healer worth their weight just spams orbs; there are other things that a healer fills their time with such as proactive aoe heals, buffs and debuffs (off balance, breach, magicka steal), and supplementary dps. Anyone repeating this 'orb spam' mantra projects the appearance of having no actual insight into the role... as has been put to you many times in this and other threads, whether you ignore that or not; I don't want you to get defensive on me and view this as an attack, we've had discussions many times across this forum on the subject of healing, and despite our differences of opinion, we've always maintained a mutual respect and candid recourse. I understand where you're coming from in terms of your personal experience and view, however, I (and other contributors to this discussion) need you to appreciate that your view is extremely narrow and not entirely inline with the majority of people who play this role, or the wider scope of what the sum of coming changes mean as a whole (the bigger picture).
orb spam = 3 orbs every 20 - 30 seconds in 4 man content | 6 every 20 - 30 seconds in 12 man
The rest of the time is taken up by everything else as described; this is no different than a magicka dps popping 4-5 force pulse / elemental weapon per rotation.11 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Some of us like these changes. I'm sorry if that upsets you - or if the arguments I make to support them strike you as so stupid you feel a need to insult me. But we do regardless. If you do not agree with my arguments as to why, that's fine. We can agree to disagree. But there is no cause to keep ridiculing me over it. You've had two solid days now of seeing me trashed on here for what I said and that ought to be sufficient for you.
Orb spamming was not a dynamic or interesting way to heal. It needed to be done away with. That doesn't mean I don't support ways to compensate for those changes if it is needed during "healchecks" in hard mode trials - which seems to be the concern of most of my critics here. But generally speaking I believe these changes are good for healers overall.
It does pose an interesting quandary though, doesn't it. Weaker dots for trash management and lower ticks on bosses, total group dps cut by anything from 20-30% in most 4 man content -- weakened heals and less sustain aid, but improved individual utility -- does this make a healer role more desirable in said content? Or does it push groups to add an extra dps and all slot back bar hots / self heals / sustain aids to recuperate/compensate for the loss?
As for the bolded -- no such thing -- no healer worth their weight just spams orbs; there are other things that a healer fills their time with such as proactive aoe heals, buffs and debuffs (off balance, breach, magicka steal), and supplementary dps. Anyone repeating this 'orb spam' mantra projects the appearance of having no actual insight into the role... as has been put to you many times in this and other threads, whether you ignore that or not; I don't want you to get defensive on me and view this as an attack, we've had discussions many times across this forum on the subject of healing, and despite our differences of opinion, we've always maintained a mutual respect and candid recourse. I understand where you're coming from in terms of your personal experience and view, however, I (and other contributors to this discussion) need you to appreciate that your view is extremely narrow and not entirely inline with the majority of people who play this role, or the wider scope of what the sum of coming changes mean as a whole (the bigger picture).
orb spam = 3 orbs every 20 - 30 seconds in 4 man content | 6 every 20 - 30 seconds in 12 man
The rest of the time is taken up by everything else as described; this is no different than a magicka dps popping 4-5 force pulse / elemental weapon per rotation.
I've tried my best to take your concerns into account. Look at that very comment you quoted where I say point blank: That doesn't mean I don't support ways to compensate for those changes if it is needed during "healchecks" in hard mode trials. What more can I do?
As far as the semantics around the word "spam". Most healers I play with in pugs spam it - at least as I understand the word. It's not uncommon for me to see what looks like a half dozen of those things floating around all the time. So much to the point it annoys me to be honest. Though I don't fault healers for doing it - as I've seen what can happen to them when they don't. They're often ridiculed, insulted and trashed for it. I also am just generally opposed to the idea of a healer needing to depend on synergies to effectively heal anyway. I don't like that approach.
But I better end it there. I need to head out anyway.
Edited by Jeremy on July 12, 2019 8:47PM0 -
Linaleah✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Some of us like these changes. I'm sorry if that upsets you - or if the arguments I make to support them strike you as so stupid you feel a need to insult me. But we do regardless. If you do not agree with my arguments as to why, that's fine. We can agree to disagree. But there is no cause to keep ridiculing me over it. You've had two solid days now of seeing me trashed on here for what I said and that ought to be sufficient for you.
Orb spamming was not a dynamic or interesting way to heal. It needed to be done away with. That doesn't mean I don't support ways to compensate for those changes if it is needed during "healchecks" in hard mode trials - which seems to be the concern of most of my critics here. But generally speaking I believe these changes are good for healers overall.
It does pose an interesting quandary though, doesn't it. Weaker dots for trash management and lower ticks on bosses, total group dps cut by anything from 20-30% in most 4 man content -- weakened heals and less sustain aid, but improved individual utility -- does this make a healer role more desirable in said content? Or does it push groups to add an extra dps and all slot back bar hots / self heals / sustain aids to recuperate/compensate for the loss?
As for the bolded -- no such thing -- no healer worth their weight just spams orbs; there are other things that a healer fills their time with such as proactive aoe heals, buffs and debuffs (off balance, breach, magicka steal), and supplementary dps. Anyone repeating this 'orb spam' mantra projects the appearance of having no actual insight into the role... as has been put to you many times in this and other threads, whether you ignore that or not; I don't want you to get defensive on me and view this as an attack, we've had discussions many times across this forum on the subject of healing, and despite our differences of opinion, we've always maintained a mutual respect and candid recourse. I understand where you're coming from in terms of your personal experience and view, however, I (and other contributors to this discussion) need you to appreciate that your view is extremely narrow and not entirely inline with the majority of people who play this role, or the wider scope of what the sum of coming changes mean as a whole (the bigger picture).
orb spam = 3 orbs every 20 - 30 seconds in 4 man content | 6 every 20 - 30 seconds in 12 man
The rest of the time is taken up by everything else as described; this is no different than a magicka dps popping 4-5 force pulse / elemental weapon per rotation.
I've tried my best to take your concerns into account. Look at that very comment you quoted where I say point blank: That doesn't mean I don't support ways to compensate for those changes if it is needed during "healchecks" in hard mode trials. What more can I do?
As far as the semantics around the word "spam". Most healers I play with in pugs spam it - at least as I understand the word. It's not uncommon for me to see what looks like a half dozen of those things floating around all the time. So much to the point it annoys me to be honest. Though I don't fault healers for doing it - as I've seen what can happen to them when they don't. They're often ridiculed, insulted and trashed for it. I also am just generally opposed to the idea of a healer needing to depend on synergies to effectively heal anyway. I don't like that approach.
But I better end it there. I need to head out anyway.
you understand that those orbs are moving slowly and persist for a while. it takes a second or so to release a burst of those orbs and then healers switch to other abilities and once orbs float out of range or disappear, they cast another burst again. its spam, but its far from the only thing that healers are doing. just becasue you see a lot of them floating about, doesn't mean its the only thing that healers do. and half the reason people release that burst is becasue of that little hot that each orb provides.. which.. allows healers to use all of the other abilities they have in their toolbox a lot more!! the question i wonder about is - since you talk about healers as people other then you.. do you actualy play a healer yourself? or are you speaking in hypothetical?dirty worthless casual.
Lois McMaster Bujold "A Civil Campaign"Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself. Guard your honor. Let your reputation fall where it will. And outlive the ***6 -
xeNNNNN✭✭✭✭✭
✭I would be happy and embrace the changes only if the devs behind the idea of these changes put up a video of them running vHoF and justify the chnges that everything end game vet is still doable. Without forcing sets and class specific skills to run as a healer. If they made these changes just so that everyone will be forced to use the new healing sets and buy them off dlcs? I would take a break until the next balance patch comes out. I hope the PTS pros can do or say something to save the healing aspect of the game. If the meta changes of having to bring 2-5 healers in trials impacting the dps numbers. I dont have the time to sit in vet trials lasting for hours just to get garbage loot. Thats just me...
Honestly. I really would like too see them run vHoF with their own changes at this point considering even nHoF pug runs go horribly wrong even as early as the first boss I dont even want to think about how frustrating vHoF will be for people post-patch.
The worst part about vHoF is pretty much the mandatory purge (you can even wipe on normal if nobody is running purge rofl). Before it was "reasonable" because you had enough healing power to willingly lose resources in order to get purge out which is extremely costly. Now with the loss of healing power... I am not so sure. I am honestly worried that this specific raids difficulty rating has jumped massively for a large swath of the player base as a result.Edited by xeNNNNN on July 13, 2019 8:10PMAh, e-communities - the "pinnacle" of the internet............yeah, right.3 -
CipherNine✭✭✭✭✭I would be happy and embrace the changes only if the devs behind the idea of these changes put up a video of them running vHoF and justify the chnges that everything end game vet is still doable. Without forcing sets and class specific skills to run as a healer. If they made these changes just so that everyone will be forced to use the new healing sets and buy them off dlcs? I would take a break until the next balance patch comes out. I hope the PTS pros can do or say something to save the healing aspect of the game. If the meta changes of having to bring 2-5 healers in trials impacting the dps numbers. I dont have the time to sit in vet trials lasting for hours just to get garbage loot. Thats just me...
Honestly. I really would like too see them run vHoF with their own changes at this point considering even nHoF pug runs go horribly wrong even as early as the first boss I dont even want to think about how frustrating vHoF will be for people post-patch.
The worst part about vHoF is pretty much the mandatory purge (you can even wipe on normal if nobody is running purge rofl). Before it was "reasonable" because you had enough healing power to willingly lose resources in order to get purge out which is extremely costly. Now with the loss of healing power... I am not so sure. I am honestly worried that this specific raids difficulty rating has jumped massively for a large swath of the player base as a result.
Yeah that is a big concern with this patch. It's not only that Trial. I think its going to effect most of them. ZOS themselves has stated before that they are concerned with such a small percentage of the player base that are able to clear Trials.
I fail to see how they are concerned at all. Since they are releasing a patch that will just further increase that player gap. I fail to see how that is good for the game. We need more players participating in the content. not even less then they are now.Edited by CipherNine on July 14, 2019 7:13AMPC-NA
Khajiit Templar - Healer
Argonian Necromancer - Healer
Breton Warden - Healer
Nord Necromancer - Tank
Argonian Templar - Tank
Nord Warden - Tank1 -
carlos424✭✭✭✭✭
There are plenty of good heals for 4-man groups. I don’t think there will be much change there. Heck, alot (most) don’t even bring a dedicated healer these days. But there are going to be some big changes for 12-person groups. Especially since many trials now require groups to split up, one tank in one place, another tank somewhere else. You might have 4 groups of players in the same fight. With the proposed changes, how do you heal them all? How do you get orbs to them? These are the questions that people are asking.Sanguinor2 wrote: »
It is. And the changes to regeneration looks like it might aactually make healers more effective at healing DPS - so they can actually do their jobs without demanding everyone stack or stay in front of them - which just isn't a realistic expectation on this game.
Healers need to have the tools to be dependable - otherwise damage dealers are just going to opt to heal themselves instead. Which is what many of them were ending up doing (and for good reasons) and why healers weren't considered necessary or even desirable in a lot of content.
What is it with People bringing up Regeneration? You just Talking About 4 man Content by any Chance? If so just ditch the healer, why would you take one? Just have the tank cast one orb once every while and have stamdds with vigor, everyone good.
If not, good luck spamming Nothing but Regeneration to Keep it on 12 People with a 10 seconds Duration (or 5 if you take rapid regen) and with it only hitting 1 ally per cast.
I explained why I brought up regeneration. Because it appears to gives healers an effective and dependable heal to heal other players with so perhaps the DPS won't have to use vigor to heal themselves. They can actually rely on a healer to do it for them.
And not every ___ ____ comment on this forum has to specifically about 12 man veteran trials. I would imagine far more players do 4 man content on this game than veteran trials anyway. So please stop perpetuating this myth that every comment made on this forum must be about veteran trials and only veteran trials. It's getting very tedious. My comment was general and not meant in any specific context other than the fact this new regeneration should be an asset to healers. I've healed trials before anyway - and I still like the look of this new regeneration. But even if I hadn't so what? This is not a Veteran Trial only forum. People involved in other kinds of content have just as much a right to post their opinions on here as people who do trials.
2
