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The Orb Change is a GOOD Thing
-
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭snarkomatic wrote: »snarkomatic wrote: »snarkomatic wrote: »snarkomatic wrote: »snarkomatic wrote: »[quote=snarkomatic wrote: »snarkomatic wrote: »snarkomatic wrote: »Sanguinor2 wrote: »
So discuss it. Who was standing in your way of discussing it?
People can post comments about how they like the new regeneration without somehow preventing you from discussing AoE healing. So I don't understand what your point is suppose to be.
There is more to this game than simply healing through some AoE phase during some veteran trial. Not every comment about this subject has to revolve around this one specific circumstance and it's extremely unreasonable to expect that it should.
I personally commented on Regeneration because everyone Talking About healing in this thread is Talking About Trials. So I assumed that you too would talk About Trials and thats the reason for the answer you got from me.
It was a general comment meant to apply to all content.
The new regeneration should work well as a tool to heal DPS in any content - including trials, 4 mans, anything that involves a player taking damage and not having to use vigor themselves. It makes healers more dependable - especially in circumstances where people are spread about and taking damage.
But it literally does not, and that is why trial healers are saying you're wrong. A single-target, unreliable-target HoT does not work for us. Most healers don't run it in trials even as the dual-target HoT it is on live. This is not a thing that helps us, and definitely is not a thing that will account for multiple stacks of illustrious.
I appreciate your input, but it doesn't belong here.
I've healed trials and I disagree with you.
The new regeneration looks nice. And just because you disagree with someone - that doesn't mean their input doesn't "belong here". These forums don't belong to you.
You're right, they don't! But .. this thread is pretty focused on VET trials and the loss healers are experiencing in that context. So you can share all the feedback you want for how this helps you and the content you do .. but that doesn't make it at all applicable to the content we do and the HPS we need.
As I told you - I believe the new regeneration will be an asset to healers in any content - including your veteran trials.
Now it may not not make up the difference for your orb spamming during AoE phases. But my post was not about that - nor does everything I post need to be about that.
I won't engage with the strawman that I "spam" orbs. That's been covered to death here in the last 48hrs and you should know better by now.
Main point being, you absolutely cannot run regen in vet trials as a reliable heal even on live, and much less can you do so after the patch that makes it apply to only one (unpredictable, un-target-able) player at a time. This is just silly to argue about. Focus on the numbers.
The "your" in my post was not meant in reference to you in particular. I have no idea how you play nor do I claim to know. It was meant generally as it relates to the debate as to whether or not orb spamming was the only viable way to heal during AoE phases. So that wasn't meant as a strawman. It was me merely point out that's not a topic I was engaging.
And why on earth can't you run regen in a vet trial?
Because you are looking at (6 on live, 12 on PTS) global cooldowns for an underwhelming HPS number that would require most of your resources and most of your GCD time to keep running. You cannot target it, you cannot control it, and it does not always even apply to people missing the buff because ZoS has such a buggy combat system.
It literally just does not work. It is not worthy of the time required to keep it running even as it exists on live, much less after the target number nerf as it is on PTS. It is inefficient on a good day.
t may not work as an effective replacement for orb or healing spring spamming during an AoE phase in a veteran trial - but as a healing tool generally it's an improvement and should help healers heal other players more effectively outside of that one occurrence you keep bringing up.
"That one occurrence" ... aka, the heal checks we are all concerned about?
You're right. Outside of those heal checks we are all worried about meeting, healing will be fine. It's like you don't understand what we keep saying in plain English: we cannot meet those heal checks with these numbers. And if you don't understand that, or don't interact with that, then your input is irrelevant to this specific subject.
No - it's like you don't understand not everyone else is only concerned with what you are.
I've told you at least 3 times now that one specific circumstance is not what I'm talking about. And if you don't like what I"m talking about - simply ignore my posts. Demanding that I only talk about what you want to talk about otherwise I should get off the forum is ridiculous.
I never, ever said you should get off the forum. Please take a breath.
I said your input is irrelevant to this one specific circumstance if you are not interested in meeting the heal checks we are all concerned about meeting. It's quoted right there above what you said in response. Idk what else to tell ya, bud.
You certainly gave that impression by saying I shouldn't be giving my "input" And I"m perfectly relaxed. I don't need to take a breath. Not sure why you think I'm angry or excited. I'm neither, trust me.
But you don't speak for everyone else. You keep talking as if you speak for "all" when I imagine it's only a tiny minority of people who play this game who even do veteran trials. So this idea unless you are talking about AoE phases during a veteran trial your input is irrelevant is silly.
I also don't know what else to tell you either - other than to suggest you simply ignore my comments if they're not talking about something you want to be talking about.
Okay. Have a nice night, then.
For perspective tho, the reason why people are telling you "don't comment if it doesn't affect you" is ... because you keep telling us it doesn't affect you lol.
This does affect me though - meaning the topic generally.
One of the reasons I quit my healer is I got sick of people demanding that I spam orbs and the lack of an effective heal that was omnidirectional.
These changes fix both of these problems for me. So naturally I'm going to defend them. It may even get me into healing again.
But ... neither of those things are an actual legitimate issue in healing as it exists on live. So I fail to see your point, as a healer main on live.
They were an issue for me. So they are "actual legitimate issues" as far as I am concerned.
Trying to heal pugs with directional frontal heals and stacking positional heals is a nightmare. So this new regeneration is going to be a God sent for me if it works like It appears to me it does. And I no longer have to worry about some member pestering me to spam orbs either. Which will be nice.
Though if it's as buggy as you claim I may end up being disappointed with it.
Good end game progress groups are not going to magically start taking you into content just because of these nerfs...you weren't willing to work with them before and I don't think you will be willing to work with the rest of the group now because these nerfs are going to give us less wiggle room in our builds.
In a 12 man group everyone has to do their part. And in no game is healers role purely to heal. You always have to support your group. In some other games they don't even take the strongest healing class simply because other classes offer more and better buffs to group.
People are dismissing 4 man content being brought up as there is nearly never any reason to take healer. If a group is struggling it's often enough one DD sacrifices a few spots for heals or even tank can do so. Which is why 4 man dungeons are just not comparable to veteran HM speedruns when it comes to heal checks.
You see people dismissing your trial healing experience and dungeon healing experience as a personal attack against you but it's simply a fact that it is as not relevant in the discussion.
That post you are quoting of mine had nothing to do with heal checks in veteran trials.
I was talking about the pains of having to heal pugs with positional restraints and how it's going to be nice to not have to worry about the orb spamming nonsense any more.
That you don't think dungeons are comparable to veteran trials, or for some comical reason think I have some interest in endgame guilds wanting to magically take me into content really has nothing to do with what I was saying.Edited by Jeremy on July 11, 2019 11:25AM0 -
Salvas_Aren✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Vercingetorix wrote: »Just to be clear, most good healers already have their own rotations based on the content they do.
Secondly, there are mechanics in the game that necessitate spamming as the only way to heal through the damage. Thats just how it is.
The changes they've made to other healing skills is not enough generally speaking to beat back a lot of mechanics that do require spam. Did you even give a thought to none templar healers as well?
You think the spam is over?
Are you unaware of the fact that those who you claim are just spammers will now be forced to spam combat prayer?
Even the changes to Combat Prayer indicate ZoS want us to spam prayer more - it got a cost reduction.
It is not a good thing when the respective content is not altered to compliment the changes. This is a bad balance method.
If you considered that the healing changes ZoS is making are intended to lower overall group DPS by forcing the DPS players to invest in defenses/sustain in order to continue to perform adequately? Heal spamming is not a requirement to the extreme you are suggesting. Perhaps your group's composition is putting more pressure on you to spam heals? Based on the patch notes I'd say that healers are now expected to do most of the healing but DPS and tanks will be expected to supply more self-healing of their own than they currently do now, if at all. There are many trial groups where the DPS do no healing of their own because "it's a DPS loss" and expect the healer to do all of it - this patch puts an end to most of that. DPS now have to invest in defensive skills to some degree or start wiping because with this patch healers can no longer do all of the healing. I really like this patch - it forces a more well-rounded approach to builds, especially DPS.
You think they have intentions?
I think they have used a dice.
They state that their intention was to make orbs and shards equal, but they are not equal. In general, this equalizing trend is not benefitial to the game. If making everything equal is their goal, we will end up with 6 identical classes, with just the names and optics of the skills being different. And atm it looks pretty much like we will end up close to this.4 -
yolanee✭✭snarkomatic wrote: »snarkomatic wrote: »snarkomatic wrote: »snarkomatic wrote: »snarkomatic wrote: »[quote=snarkomatic wrote: »snarkomatic wrote: »snarkomatic wrote: »Sanguinor2 wrote: »
So discuss it. Who was standing in your way of discussing it?
People can post comments about how they like the new regeneration without somehow preventing you from discussing AoE healing. So I don't understand what your point is suppose to be.
There is more to this game than simply healing through some AoE phase during some veteran trial. Not every comment about this subject has to revolve around this one specific circumstance and it's extremely unreasonable to expect that it should.
I personally commented on Regeneration because everyone Talking About healing in this thread is Talking About Trials. So I assumed that you too would talk About Trials and thats the reason for the answer you got from me.
It was a general comment meant to apply to all content.
The new regeneration should work well as a tool to heal DPS in any content - including trials, 4 mans, anything that involves a player taking damage and not having to use vigor themselves. It makes healers more dependable - especially in circumstances where people are spread about and taking damage.
But it literally does not, and that is why trial healers are saying you're wrong. A single-target, unreliable-target HoT does not work for us. Most healers don't run it in trials even as the dual-target HoT it is on live. This is not a thing that helps us, and definitely is not a thing that will account for multiple stacks of illustrious.
I appreciate your input, but it doesn't belong here.
I've healed trials and I disagree with you.
The new regeneration looks nice. And just because you disagree with someone - that doesn't mean their input doesn't "belong here". These forums don't belong to you.
You're right, they don't! But .. this thread is pretty focused on VET trials and the loss healers are experiencing in that context. So you can share all the feedback you want for how this helps you and the content you do .. but that doesn't make it at all applicable to the content we do and the HPS we need.
As I told you - I believe the new regeneration will be an asset to healers in any content - including your veteran trials.
Now it may not not make up the difference for your orb spamming during AoE phases. But my post was not about that - nor does everything I post need to be about that.
I won't engage with the strawman that I "spam" orbs. That's been covered to death here in the last 48hrs and you should know better by now.
Main point being, you absolutely cannot run regen in vet trials as a reliable heal even on live, and much less can you do so after the patch that makes it apply to only one (unpredictable, un-target-able) player at a time. This is just silly to argue about. Focus on the numbers.
The "your" in my post was not meant in reference to you in particular. I have no idea how you play nor do I claim to know. It was meant generally as it relates to the debate as to whether or not orb spamming was the only viable way to heal during AoE phases. So that wasn't meant as a strawman. It was me merely point out that's not a topic I was engaging.
And why on earth can't you run regen in a vet trial?
Because you are looking at (6 on live, 12 on PTS) global cooldowns for an underwhelming HPS number that would require most of your resources and most of your GCD time to keep running. You cannot target it, you cannot control it, and it does not always even apply to people missing the buff because ZoS has such a buggy combat system.
It literally just does not work. It is not worthy of the time required to keep it running even as it exists on live, much less after the target number nerf as it is on PTS. It is inefficient on a good day.
t may not work as an effective replacement for orb or healing spring spamming during an AoE phase in a veteran trial - but as a healing tool generally it's an improvement and should help healers heal other players more effectively outside of that one occurrence you keep bringing up.
"That one occurrence" ... aka, the heal checks we are all concerned about?
You're right. Outside of those heal checks we are all worried about meeting, healing will be fine. It's like you don't understand what we keep saying in plain English: we cannot meet those heal checks with these numbers. And if you don't understand that, or don't interact with that, then your input is irrelevant to this specific subject.
No - it's like you don't understand not everyone else is only concerned with what you are.
I've told you at least 3 times now that one specific circumstance is not what I'm talking about. And if you don't like what I"m talking about - simply ignore my posts. Demanding that I only talk about what you want to talk about otherwise I should get off the forum is ridiculous.
I never, ever said you should get off the forum. Please take a breath.
I said your input is irrelevant to this one specific circumstance if you are not interested in meeting the heal checks we are all concerned about meeting. It's quoted right there above what you said in response. Idk what else to tell ya, bud.
You certainly gave that impression by saying I shouldn't be giving my "input" And I"m perfectly relaxed. I don't need to take a breath. Not sure why you think I'm angry or excited. I'm neither, trust me.
But you don't speak for everyone else. You keep talking as if you speak for "all" when I imagine it's only a tiny minority of people who play this game who even do veteran trials. So this idea unless you are talking about AoE phases during a veteran trial your input is irrelevant is silly.
I also don't know what else to tell you either - other than to suggest you simply ignore my comments if they're not talking about something you want to be talking about.
Okay. Have a nice night, then.
For perspective tho, the reason why people are telling you "don't comment if it doesn't affect you" is ... because you keep telling us it doesn't affect you lol.
This does affect me though - meaning the topic generally.
One of the reasons I quit my healer is I got sick of people demanding that I spam orbs and the lack of an effective heal that was omnidirectional.
These changes fix both of these problems for me. So naturally I'm going to defend them. It may even get me into healing again.
But ... neither of those things are an actual legitimate issue in healing as it exists on live. So I fail to see your point, as a healer main on live.
They were an issue for me. So they are "actual legitimate issues" as far as I am concerned.
Trying to heal pugs with directional frontal heals and stacking positional heals is a nightmare. So this new regeneration is going to be a God sent for me if it works like It appears to me it does. And I no longer have to worry about some member pestering me to spam orbs either. Which will be nice.
Though if it's as buggy as you claim I may end up being disappointed with it.
Good end game progress groups are not going to magically start taking you into content just because of these nerfs...you weren't willing to work with them before and I don't think you will be willing to work with the rest of the group now because these nerfs are going to give us less wiggle room in our builds.
In a 12 man group everyone has to do their part. And in no game is healers role purely to heal. You always have to support your group. In some other games they don't even take the strongest healing class simply because other classes offer more and better buffs to group.
People are dismissing 4 man content being brought up as there is nearly never any reason to take healer. If a group is struggling it's often enough one DD sacrifices a few spots for heals or even tank can do so. Which is why 4 man dungeons are just not comparable to veteran HM speedruns when it comes to heal checks.
You see people dismissing your trial healing experience and dungeon healing experience as a personal attack against you but it's simply a fact that it is as not relevant in the discussion.
That post you are quoting of mine had nothing to do with heal checks in veteran trials.
I was talking about the pains of having to heal pugs with positional restraints and how it's going to be nice to not have to worry about the orb spamming nonsense any more.
That you don't think dungeons are comparable to veteran trials, or for some comical reason think I have some interest in endgame guilds wanting to magically take me into content really has nothing to do with what I was saying.
PUGs are always going to have positional issues. Which is why PUGs will never do the hardest Vet and HM dungeons unless they get some serious nerfs. You will still have to burst heal them (and burst heal is usually the only thing you need to do in content you PUG for, the rest of the time you should be doing something else like buffing them up or providing them with resources...or best yet do damage so you can get out of the dung faster).
That you think that vet dungeons are comparable to end game trials is the comical thing. It's ok to like some of the changes but when people who are simply better and have more experience than you tell you the changes don't make sense you might think a bit about their position and arguments before you dismiss it with "I don't like spamming orbs".
So far the only people who have been for these changes are people who just don't do the content the healing was for or are not very experienced or they just simply aren't good. And it shows in cyclical arguments.9 -
danara✭✭✭@Jeremy
You won, i give up, in 6 pages of one thread you are still stuck on repeat mode without giving only one single arguments.
When People are showing how wrong you are you Just say "im not speaking about that" and every time it s a different one
Never saw a stubborn person like you, Just keep playing like a New player you are right, Now People will Just kick you because you cant heal them...
Not going to answer after that. One last advice, keep working on your math12 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭snarkomatic wrote: »snarkomatic wrote: »snarkomatic wrote: »snarkomatic wrote: »snarkomatic wrote: »[quote=snarkomatic wrote: »snarkomatic wrote: »snarkomatic wrote: »Sanguinor2 wrote: »
So discuss it. Who was standing in your way of discussing it?
People can post comments about how they like the new regeneration without somehow preventing you from discussing AoE healing. So I don't understand what your point is suppose to be.
There is more to this game than simply healing through some AoE phase during some veteran trial. Not every comment about this subject has to revolve around this one specific circumstance and it's extremely unreasonable to expect that it should.
I personally commented on Regeneration because everyone Talking About healing in this thread is Talking About Trials. So I assumed that you too would talk About Trials and thats the reason for the answer you got from me.
It was a general comment meant to apply to all content.
The new regeneration should work well as a tool to heal DPS in any content - including trials, 4 mans, anything that involves a player taking damage and not having to use vigor themselves. It makes healers more dependable - especially in circumstances where people are spread about and taking damage.
But it literally does not, and that is why trial healers are saying you're wrong. A single-target, unreliable-target HoT does not work for us. Most healers don't run it in trials even as the dual-target HoT it is on live. This is not a thing that helps us, and definitely is not a thing that will account for multiple stacks of illustrious.
I appreciate your input, but it doesn't belong here.
I've healed trials and I disagree with you.
The new regeneration looks nice. And just because you disagree with someone - that doesn't mean their input doesn't "belong here". These forums don't belong to you.
You're right, they don't! But .. this thread is pretty focused on VET trials and the loss healers are experiencing in that context. So you can share all the feedback you want for how this helps you and the content you do .. but that doesn't make it at all applicable to the content we do and the HPS we need.
As I told you - I believe the new regeneration will be an asset to healers in any content - including your veteran trials.
Now it may not not make up the difference for your orb spamming during AoE phases. But my post was not about that - nor does everything I post need to be about that.
I won't engage with the strawman that I "spam" orbs. That's been covered to death here in the last 48hrs and you should know better by now.
Main point being, you absolutely cannot run regen in vet trials as a reliable heal even on live, and much less can you do so after the patch that makes it apply to only one (unpredictable, un-target-able) player at a time. This is just silly to argue about. Focus on the numbers.
The "your" in my post was not meant in reference to you in particular. I have no idea how you play nor do I claim to know. It was meant generally as it relates to the debate as to whether or not orb spamming was the only viable way to heal during AoE phases. So that wasn't meant as a strawman. It was me merely point out that's not a topic I was engaging.
And why on earth can't you run regen in a vet trial?
Because you are looking at (6 on live, 12 on PTS) global cooldowns for an underwhelming HPS number that would require most of your resources and most of your GCD time to keep running. You cannot target it, you cannot control it, and it does not always even apply to people missing the buff because ZoS has such a buggy combat system.
It literally just does not work. It is not worthy of the time required to keep it running even as it exists on live, much less after the target number nerf as it is on PTS. It is inefficient on a good day.
t may not work as an effective replacement for orb or healing spring spamming during an AoE phase in a veteran trial - but as a healing tool generally it's an improvement and should help healers heal other players more effectively outside of that one occurrence you keep bringing up.
"That one occurrence" ... aka, the heal checks we are all concerned about?
You're right. Outside of those heal checks we are all worried about meeting, healing will be fine. It's like you don't understand what we keep saying in plain English: we cannot meet those heal checks with these numbers. And if you don't understand that, or don't interact with that, then your input is irrelevant to this specific subject.
No - it's like you don't understand not everyone else is only concerned with what you are.
I've told you at least 3 times now that one specific circumstance is not what I'm talking about. And if you don't like what I"m talking about - simply ignore my posts. Demanding that I only talk about what you want to talk about otherwise I should get off the forum is ridiculous.
I never, ever said you should get off the forum. Please take a breath.
I said your input is irrelevant to this one specific circumstance if you are not interested in meeting the heal checks we are all concerned about meeting. It's quoted right there above what you said in response. Idk what else to tell ya, bud.
You certainly gave that impression by saying I shouldn't be giving my "input" And I"m perfectly relaxed. I don't need to take a breath. Not sure why you think I'm angry or excited. I'm neither, trust me.
But you don't speak for everyone else. You keep talking as if you speak for "all" when I imagine it's only a tiny minority of people who play this game who even do veteran trials. So this idea unless you are talking about AoE phases during a veteran trial your input is irrelevant is silly.
I also don't know what else to tell you either - other than to suggest you simply ignore my comments if they're not talking about something you want to be talking about.
Okay. Have a nice night, then.
For perspective tho, the reason why people are telling you "don't comment if it doesn't affect you" is ... because you keep telling us it doesn't affect you lol.
This does affect me though - meaning the topic generally.
One of the reasons I quit my healer is I got sick of people demanding that I spam orbs and the lack of an effective heal that was omnidirectional.
These changes fix both of these problems for me. So naturally I'm going to defend them. It may even get me into healing again.
But ... neither of those things are an actual legitimate issue in healing as it exists on live. So I fail to see your point, as a healer main on live.
They were an issue for me. So they are "actual legitimate issues" as far as I am concerned.
Trying to heal pugs with directional frontal heals and stacking positional heals is a nightmare. So this new regeneration is going to be a God sent for me if it works like It appears to me it does. And I no longer have to worry about some member pestering me to spam orbs either. Which will be nice.
Though if it's as buggy as you claim I may end up being disappointed with it.
Good end game progress groups are not going to magically start taking you into content just because of these nerfs...you weren't willing to work with them before and I don't think you will be willing to work with the rest of the group now because these nerfs are going to give us less wiggle room in our builds.
In a 12 man group everyone has to do their part. And in no game is healers role purely to heal. You always have to support your group. In some other games they don't even take the strongest healing class simply because other classes offer more and better buffs to group.
People are dismissing 4 man content being brought up as there is nearly never any reason to take healer. If a group is struggling it's often enough one DD sacrifices a few spots for heals or even tank can do so. Which is why 4 man dungeons are just not comparable to veteran HM speedruns when it comes to heal checks.
You see people dismissing your trial healing experience and dungeon healing experience as a personal attack against you but it's simply a fact that it is as not relevant in the discussion.
That post you are quoting of mine had nothing to do with heal checks in veteran trials.
I was talking about the pains of having to heal pugs with positional restraints and how it's going to be nice to not have to worry about the orb spamming nonsense any more.
That you don't think dungeons are comparable to veteran trials, or for some comical reason think I have some interest in endgame guilds wanting to magically take me into content really has nothing to do with what I was saying.
PUGs are always going to have positional issues. Which is why PUGs will never do the hardest Vet and HM dungeons unless they get some serious nerfs. You will still have to burst heal them (and burst heal is usually the only thing you need to do in content you PUG for, the rest of the time you should be doing something else like buffing them up or providing them with resources...or best yet do damage so you can get out of the dung faster).
That you think that vet dungeons are comparable to end game trials is the comical thing. It's ok to like some of the changes but when people who are simply better and have more experience than you tell you the changes don't make sense you might think a bit about their position and arguments before you dismiss it with "I don't like spamming orbs".
So far the only people who have been for these changes are people who just don't do the content the healing was for or are not very experienced or they just simply aren't good. And it shows in cyclical arguments.
No what's a comical thing is you keep accusing me comparing end game trials to dungeons or what ever. I never have. You're simply making that up. That you believe veteran trials are not comparable to endgame trials has nothing to do with anything I have said.
And yes - I know pugs are always going to have positional issues. That is why I like these changes to regeneration. Because I am hoping they will help out with that. So it seems you are finally understanding at least some of what I am actually talking about.0 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭@Jeremy
You won, i give up, in 6 pages of one thread you are still stuck on repeat mode without giving only one single arguments.
When People are showing how wrong you are you Just say "im not speaking about that" and every time it s a different one
Never saw a stubborn person like you, Just keep playing like a New player you are right, Now People will Just kick you because you cant heal them...
Not going to answer after that. One last advice, keep working on your math
Putting words in my mouth and pretending I said things I never didn't isn't proving someone wrong.0 -
yolanee✭✭snarkomatic wrote: »snarkomatic wrote: »snarkomatic wrote: »snarkomatic wrote: »snarkomatic wrote: »[quote=snarkomatic wrote: »snarkomatic wrote: »snarkomatic wrote: »Sanguinor2 wrote: »
So discuss it. Who was standing in your way of discussing it?
People can post comments about how they like the new regeneration without somehow preventing you from discussing AoE healing. So I don't understand what your point is suppose to be.
There is more to this game than simply healing through some AoE phase during some veteran trial. Not every comment about this subject has to revolve around this one specific circumstance and it's extremely unreasonable to expect that it should.
I personally commented on Regeneration because everyone Talking About healing in this thread is Talking About Trials. So I assumed that you too would talk About Trials and thats the reason for the answer you got from me.
It was a general comment meant to apply to all content.
The new regeneration should work well as a tool to heal DPS in any content - including trials, 4 mans, anything that involves a player taking damage and not having to use vigor themselves. It makes healers more dependable - especially in circumstances where people are spread about and taking damage.
But it literally does not, and that is why trial healers are saying you're wrong. A single-target, unreliable-target HoT does not work for us. Most healers don't run it in trials even as the dual-target HoT it is on live. This is not a thing that helps us, and definitely is not a thing that will account for multiple stacks of illustrious.
I appreciate your input, but it doesn't belong here.
I've healed trials and I disagree with you.
The new regeneration looks nice. And just because you disagree with someone - that doesn't mean their input doesn't "belong here". These forums don't belong to you.
You're right, they don't! But .. this thread is pretty focused on VET trials and the loss healers are experiencing in that context. So you can share all the feedback you want for how this helps you and the content you do .. but that doesn't make it at all applicable to the content we do and the HPS we need.
As I told you - I believe the new regeneration will be an asset to healers in any content - including your veteran trials.
Now it may not not make up the difference for your orb spamming during AoE phases. But my post was not about that - nor does everything I post need to be about that.
I won't engage with the strawman that I "spam" orbs. That's been covered to death here in the last 48hrs and you should know better by now.
Main point being, you absolutely cannot run regen in vet trials as a reliable heal even on live, and much less can you do so after the patch that makes it apply to only one (unpredictable, un-target-able) player at a time. This is just silly to argue about. Focus on the numbers.
The "your" in my post was not meant in reference to you in particular. I have no idea how you play nor do I claim to know. It was meant generally as it relates to the debate as to whether or not orb spamming was the only viable way to heal during AoE phases. So that wasn't meant as a strawman. It was me merely point out that's not a topic I was engaging.
And why on earth can't you run regen in a vet trial?
Because you are looking at (6 on live, 12 on PTS) global cooldowns for an underwhelming HPS number that would require most of your resources and most of your GCD time to keep running. You cannot target it, you cannot control it, and it does not always even apply to people missing the buff because ZoS has such a buggy combat system.
It literally just does not work. It is not worthy of the time required to keep it running even as it exists on live, much less after the target number nerf as it is on PTS. It is inefficient on a good day.
t may not work as an effective replacement for orb or healing spring spamming during an AoE phase in a veteran trial - but as a healing tool generally it's an improvement and should help healers heal other players more effectively outside of that one occurrence you keep bringing up.
"That one occurrence" ... aka, the heal checks we are all concerned about?
You're right. Outside of those heal checks we are all worried about meeting, healing will be fine. It's like you don't understand what we keep saying in plain English: we cannot meet those heal checks with these numbers. And if you don't understand that, or don't interact with that, then your input is irrelevant to this specific subject.
No - it's like you don't understand not everyone else is only concerned with what you are.
I've told you at least 3 times now that one specific circumstance is not what I'm talking about. And if you don't like what I"m talking about - simply ignore my posts. Demanding that I only talk about what you want to talk about otherwise I should get off the forum is ridiculous.
I never, ever said you should get off the forum. Please take a breath.
I said your input is irrelevant to this one specific circumstance if you are not interested in meeting the heal checks we are all concerned about meeting. It's quoted right there above what you said in response. Idk what else to tell ya, bud.
You certainly gave that impression by saying I shouldn't be giving my "input" And I"m perfectly relaxed. I don't need to take a breath. Not sure why you think I'm angry or excited. I'm neither, trust me.
But you don't speak for everyone else. You keep talking as if you speak for "all" when I imagine it's only a tiny minority of people who play this game who even do veteran trials. So this idea unless you are talking about AoE phases during a veteran trial your input is irrelevant is silly.
I also don't know what else to tell you either - other than to suggest you simply ignore my comments if they're not talking about something you want to be talking about.
Okay. Have a nice night, then.
For perspective tho, the reason why people are telling you "don't comment if it doesn't affect you" is ... because you keep telling us it doesn't affect you lol.
This does affect me though - meaning the topic generally.
One of the reasons I quit my healer is I got sick of people demanding that I spam orbs and the lack of an effective heal that was omnidirectional.
These changes fix both of these problems for me. So naturally I'm going to defend them. It may even get me into healing again.
But ... neither of those things are an actual legitimate issue in healing as it exists on live. So I fail to see your point, as a healer main on live.
They were an issue for me. So they are "actual legitimate issues" as far as I am concerned.
Trying to heal pugs with directional frontal heals and stacking positional heals is a nightmare. So this new regeneration is going to be a God sent for me if it works like It appears to me it does. And I no longer have to worry about some member pestering me to spam orbs either. Which will be nice.
Though if it's as buggy as you claim I may end up being disappointed with it.
Good end game progress groups are not going to magically start taking you into content just because of these nerfs...you weren't willing to work with them before and I don't think you will be willing to work with the rest of the group now because these nerfs are going to give us less wiggle room in our builds.
In a 12 man group everyone has to do their part. And in no game is healers role purely to heal. You always have to support your group. In some other games they don't even take the strongest healing class simply because other classes offer more and better buffs to group.
People are dismissing 4 man content being brought up as there is nearly never any reason to take healer. If a group is struggling it's often enough one DD sacrifices a few spots for heals or even tank can do so. Which is why 4 man dungeons are just not comparable to veteran HM speedruns when it comes to heal checks.
You see people dismissing your trial healing experience and dungeon healing experience as a personal attack against you but it's simply a fact that it is as not relevant in the discussion.
That post you are quoting of mine had nothing to do with heal checks in veteran trials.
I was talking about the pains of having to heal pugs with positional restraints and how it's going to be nice to not have to worry about the orb spamming nonsense any more.
That you don't think dungeons are comparable to veteran trials, or for some comical reason think I have some interest in endgame guilds wanting to magically take me into content really has nothing to do with what I was saying.
PUGs are always going to have positional issues. Which is why PUGs will never do the hardest Vet and HM dungeons unless they get some serious nerfs. You will still have to burst heal them (and burst heal is usually the only thing you need to do in content you PUG for, the rest of the time you should be doing something else like buffing them up or providing them with resources...or best yet do damage so you can get out of the dung faster).
That you think that vet dungeons are comparable to end game trials is the comical thing. It's ok to like some of the changes but when people who are simply better and have more experience than you tell you the changes don't make sense you might think a bit about their position and arguments before you dismiss it with "I don't like spamming orbs".
So far the only people who have been for these changes are people who just don't do the content the healing was for or are not very experienced or they just simply aren't good. And it shows in cyclical arguments.
No what's a comical thing is you keep accusing me comparing end game trials to dungeons or what ever. I never have. You're simply making that up. That you believe veteran trials are not comparable to endgame trials has nothing to do with anything I have said.
And yes - I know pugs are always going to have positional issues. That is why I like these changes to regeneration. Because I am hoping they will help out with that. So it seems you are finally understanding at least some of what I am actually talking about.
I think I will not reply to anymore posts where you and Seraphayel are arguing in bad faith considering only your own comfort.
I think Hasi put it the best here so I direct anyone else reading this to check that post to understand.10 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭snarkomatic wrote: »snarkomatic wrote: »snarkomatic wrote: »snarkomatic wrote: »snarkomatic wrote: »[quote=snarkomatic wrote: »snarkomatic wrote: »snarkomatic wrote: »Sanguinor2 wrote: »
So discuss it. Who was standing in your way of discussing it?
People can post comments about how they like the new regeneration without somehow preventing you from discussing AoE healing. So I don't understand what your point is suppose to be.
There is more to this game than simply healing through some AoE phase during some veteran trial. Not every comment about this subject has to revolve around this one specific circumstance and it's extremely unreasonable to expect that it should.
I personally commented on Regeneration because everyone Talking About healing in this thread is Talking About Trials. So I assumed that you too would talk About Trials and thats the reason for the answer you got from me.
It was a general comment meant to apply to all content.
The new regeneration should work well as a tool to heal DPS in any content - including trials, 4 mans, anything that involves a player taking damage and not having to use vigor themselves. It makes healers more dependable - especially in circumstances where people are spread about and taking damage.
But it literally does not, and that is why trial healers are saying you're wrong. A single-target, unreliable-target HoT does not work for us. Most healers don't run it in trials even as the dual-target HoT it is on live. This is not a thing that helps us, and definitely is not a thing that will account for multiple stacks of illustrious.
I appreciate your input, but it doesn't belong here.
I've healed trials and I disagree with you.
The new regeneration looks nice. And just because you disagree with someone - that doesn't mean their input doesn't "belong here". These forums don't belong to you.
You're right, they don't! But .. this thread is pretty focused on VET trials and the loss healers are experiencing in that context. So you can share all the feedback you want for how this helps you and the content you do .. but that doesn't make it at all applicable to the content we do and the HPS we need.
As I told you - I believe the new regeneration will be an asset to healers in any content - including your veteran trials.
Now it may not not make up the difference for your orb spamming during AoE phases. But my post was not about that - nor does everything I post need to be about that.
I won't engage with the strawman that I "spam" orbs. That's been covered to death here in the last 48hrs and you should know better by now.
Main point being, you absolutely cannot run regen in vet trials as a reliable heal even on live, and much less can you do so after the patch that makes it apply to only one (unpredictable, un-target-able) player at a time. This is just silly to argue about. Focus on the numbers.
The "your" in my post was not meant in reference to you in particular. I have no idea how you play nor do I claim to know. It was meant generally as it relates to the debate as to whether or not orb spamming was the only viable way to heal during AoE phases. So that wasn't meant as a strawman. It was me merely point out that's not a topic I was engaging.
And why on earth can't you run regen in a vet trial?
Because you are looking at (6 on live, 12 on PTS) global cooldowns for an underwhelming HPS number that would require most of your resources and most of your GCD time to keep running. You cannot target it, you cannot control it, and it does not always even apply to people missing the buff because ZoS has such a buggy combat system.
It literally just does not work. It is not worthy of the time required to keep it running even as it exists on live, much less after the target number nerf as it is on PTS. It is inefficient on a good day.
t may not work as an effective replacement for orb or healing spring spamming during an AoE phase in a veteran trial - but as a healing tool generally it's an improvement and should help healers heal other players more effectively outside of that one occurrence you keep bringing up.
"That one occurrence" ... aka, the heal checks we are all concerned about?
You're right. Outside of those heal checks we are all worried about meeting, healing will be fine. It's like you don't understand what we keep saying in plain English: we cannot meet those heal checks with these numbers. And if you don't understand that, or don't interact with that, then your input is irrelevant to this specific subject.
No - it's like you don't understand not everyone else is only concerned with what you are.
I've told you at least 3 times now that one specific circumstance is not what I'm talking about. And if you don't like what I"m talking about - simply ignore my posts. Demanding that I only talk about what you want to talk about otherwise I should get off the forum is ridiculous.
I never, ever said you should get off the forum. Please take a breath.
I said your input is irrelevant to this one specific circumstance if you are not interested in meeting the heal checks we are all concerned about meeting. It's quoted right there above what you said in response. Idk what else to tell ya, bud.
You certainly gave that impression by saying I shouldn't be giving my "input" And I"m perfectly relaxed. I don't need to take a breath. Not sure why you think I'm angry or excited. I'm neither, trust me.
But you don't speak for everyone else. You keep talking as if you speak for "all" when I imagine it's only a tiny minority of people who play this game who even do veteran trials. So this idea unless you are talking about AoE phases during a veteran trial your input is irrelevant is silly.
I also don't know what else to tell you either - other than to suggest you simply ignore my comments if they're not talking about something you want to be talking about.
Okay. Have a nice night, then.
For perspective tho, the reason why people are telling you "don't comment if it doesn't affect you" is ... because you keep telling us it doesn't affect you lol.
This does affect me though - meaning the topic generally.
One of the reasons I quit my healer is I got sick of people demanding that I spam orbs and the lack of an effective heal that was omnidirectional.
These changes fix both of these problems for me. So naturally I'm going to defend them. It may even get me into healing again.
But ... neither of those things are an actual legitimate issue in healing as it exists on live. So I fail to see your point, as a healer main on live.
They were an issue for me. So they are "actual legitimate issues" as far as I am concerned.
Trying to heal pugs with directional frontal heals and stacking positional heals is a nightmare. So this new regeneration is going to be a God sent for me if it works like It appears to me it does. And I no longer have to worry about some member pestering me to spam orbs either. Which will be nice.
Though if it's as buggy as you claim I may end up being disappointed with it.
Good end game progress groups are not going to magically start taking you into content just because of these nerfs...you weren't willing to work with them before and I don't think you will be willing to work with the rest of the group now because these nerfs are going to give us less wiggle room in our builds.
In a 12 man group everyone has to do their part. And in no game is healers role purely to heal. You always have to support your group. In some other games they don't even take the strongest healing class simply because other classes offer more and better buffs to group.
People are dismissing 4 man content being brought up as there is nearly never any reason to take healer. If a group is struggling it's often enough one DD sacrifices a few spots for heals or even tank can do so. Which is why 4 man dungeons are just not comparable to veteran HM speedruns when it comes to heal checks.
You see people dismissing your trial healing experience and dungeon healing experience as a personal attack against you but it's simply a fact that it is as not relevant in the discussion.
That post you are quoting of mine had nothing to do with heal checks in veteran trials.
I was talking about the pains of having to heal pugs with positional restraints and how it's going to be nice to not have to worry about the orb spamming nonsense any more.
That you don't think dungeons are comparable to veteran trials, or for some comical reason think I have some interest in endgame guilds wanting to magically take me into content really has nothing to do with what I was saying.
PUGs are always going to have positional issues. Which is why PUGs will never do the hardest Vet and HM dungeons unless they get some serious nerfs. You will still have to burst heal them (and burst heal is usually the only thing you need to do in content you PUG for, the rest of the time you should be doing something else like buffing them up or providing them with resources...or best yet do damage so you can get out of the dung faster).
That you think that vet dungeons are comparable to end game trials is the comical thing. It's ok to like some of the changes but when people who are simply better and have more experience than you tell you the changes don't make sense you might think a bit about their position and arguments before you dismiss it with "I don't like spamming orbs".
So far the only people who have been for these changes are people who just don't do the content the healing was for or are not very experienced or they just simply aren't good. And it shows in cyclical arguments.
No what's a comical thing is you keep accusing me comparing end game trials to dungeons or what ever. I never have. You're simply making that up. That you believe veteran trials are not comparable to endgame trials has nothing to do with anything I have said.
And yes - I know pugs are always going to have positional issues. That is why I like these changes to regeneration. Because I am hoping they will help out with that. So it seems you are finally understanding at least some of what I am actually talking about.
I think I will not reply to anymore posts where you and Seraphayel are arguing in bad faith considering only your own comfort.
I think Hasi put it the best here so I direct anyone else reading this to check that post to understand.
You accuse me of arguing in bad faith - yet you're the one is making up things because I never said anywhere that dungeons were comparable to trials.
Edited by Jeremy on July 11, 2019 12:04PM0 -
Jodynn✭✭✭✭✭
✭So many people muddy these forums with saying changes are good, changes are bad without having the context or knowledge of what the role is, if you don't have actual experience or knowledge, please keep your opinions which you act like facts to yourself, because you are just adding fluff and nonsense, if you use some arithmetic or proofs that are actually valid, fine, but don't just scream because you read something and don't know have a clue what you are talking about.Jodynn PC NA
PvE and PvP MagDK
The lack of communication from ZOS to player speaks volumes.8 -
Orb change is a non issue tbh tons of ways to recover resources without a massive dps loss plus additional means have been added along with a sweeping cost reduction on a healthy amount of dps related skills.
Healing springs nerf should be the main thing healers should be worried about. I'm personally all for it but it's going to be difficult for a lot of people to adjust to. One things for sure for me at least healing in eso is currently the most boring healing experience I've had in any MMO I've played. Hopefully this is the start to a more enjoyable and overall better experience.5 -
Seraphayel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭It’s like the developers intended the usage of Heavy Attacks once in a while for resource return...Edited by Seraphayel on July 11, 2019 4:35PMPS5EUAldmeri Dominion- Khajiit Arcanist -0 -
Jodynn✭✭✭✭✭
✭I don't believe it is necessary to use heavy attacks, and I find heavy attacks clunky and boring for magicka dps, stamina dps it's easy AF except bows.
Healing heavy attacks feel natural and have specific buffs that make it easier for you.
Tanking it's easy to weave heavy attacks and takes little effortJodynn PC NA
PvE and PvP MagDK
The lack of communication from ZOS to player speaks volumes.1 -
xeNNNNN✭✭✭✭✭
✭Donnasnowheart_ESO wrote: »Orb change is a non issue tbh tons of ways to recover resources without a massive dps loss plus additional means have been added along with a sweeping cost reduction on a healthy amount of dps related skills.
Healing springs nerf should be the main thing healers should be worried about. I'm personally all for it but it's going to be difficult for a lot of people to adjust to. One things for sure for me at least healing in eso is currently the most boring healing experience I've had in any MMO I've played. Hopefully this is the start to a more enjoyable and overall better experience.
Springs change is why I am running after mending right now. Can run mending to off-set the springs change or rather the healing nerf to springs. With any luck that weapon damage reduction on bosses and adds is enough to negate the 44% loss of healing per tick.
Means losing jorvulds but easier to handle the loss of uptimes tbhEdited by xeNNNNN on July 11, 2019 8:44PMAh, e-communities - the "pinnacle" of the internet............yeah, right.1 -
hasi✭✭✭✭Donnasnowheart_ESO wrote: »Orb change is a non issue tbh tons of ways to recover resources without a massive dps loss plus additional means have been added along with a sweeping cost reduction on a healthy amount of dps related skills.
It's not just the fact that Orbs give Ressources, but also that they are Spammable Synergies pretty much, which a lot of Sets require. No other Skill can be used like that to compensate the loss, because those that give a Synergy, are limited in the Healer's Ressource[Stam->Bone Surge, Spiders], require something to be done/happen[Warden Blossom Field->Standing in the Middle of it, Bone Surge->Stacking on the Healer, Blood Altar->Dropping in Health] or can't be used several times in a short amount of time[Templar Shards, Cleansing Ritual(unless you spam it), Warden Blossom Field(if it takes people time to reposition, activate)].
Sadly a lot of people forget this Part although it should be mentioned. Without this Feature, Endgame StamDDs would very likely have to switch from Lokkestiz to Yokeda, and lose Damage. Which isn't what we want ay. :-)
1 -
max_only✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The problem is this will make casuals stressed out.
A casual starts the game and putts around until they want to do a dungeon. They don’t have the dps and they don’t want the responsibility of tank so people advise them “heal a few dungeons”. Casual now has to reroll to Templar if they weren’t already just so they reliably give resources back to the group.
The change makes the healing role on every class except Templar more difficult because healers in this game aren’t just hp monitors, we are resource relievers and buffers as well.#FiteForYourRite Bosmer = Stealth
#OppositeResourceSiphoningAttacks
|| CP 1000+ || PC/NA || GUILDS: LWH; IA; CH; XA
""All gods' creatures (you lot) are equal when covered in A1 sauce"" -- Old Bosmeri Wisdom7 -
Linaleah✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭snarkomatic wrote: »Sanguinor2 wrote: »
I explained why I brought up regeneration. Because it gives healers an effective and dependable heal to heal other players with so perhaps the DPS won't have to use vigor to heal themselves. They can actually rely on a healer to do it for them.
And not every ___ ____ comment on this forum has to be in the context of 12 man veteran raids. I would imagine far more players do 4 man content on this game than veteran trials anyway. So please stop perpetuating this myth that every comment made on this forum must be about veteran trials. It's getting very tedious.
But 4 man Content doesnt even Need healing in most cases. And in those it does you can make do with the nerfed springs and orbs, you only Need to heal 3 Targets, flashheals like BoL will be fine and in 4 man Regeneration can be useful.
But in 12 man, where springs and orbs healing Output nerfs actually matters Regeneration wont come even close to being a viable alternative. Thats why most People are Talking About vet Trial healing because it actually suffers from the changes.
Yup, this.
Four man healing will indeed be more fun and more versatile now. You're not wrong.
But the issues trial healers are bringing up are not less valid for that fact. We are specifically focused on AoE heals for a reason! That being: we have no viable alternatives on live.
If this does not affect you, awesome! But .. it affects us, so, let us discuss that. Thanks.
so basically what you are saying is - ALL of us are getting hurt by this change, so we are allies here, not adversaries. (all I'm saying is that they seem to be adjusting skills for designated trial healer classes, so trials healers probably won't be as poorly off as 4 man pug healers that are not templars, but hey, i could be wrong and we are all suffering equally)Edited by Linaleah on July 11, 2019 6:56PMdirty worthless casual.
Lois McMaster Bujold "A Civil Campaign"Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself. Guard your honor. Let your reputation fall where it will. And outlive the ***0 -
Grandma✭✭✭✭✭Agree 100% especially now that everyone can synergize one orb. Healing might be fun now!GH / 3/04/2021 / Elemental Catalyst Necromancer1 -
xeNNNNN✭✭✭✭✭
✭snarkomatic wrote: »Sanguinor2 wrote: »
I explained why I brought up regeneration. Because it gives healers an effective and dependable heal to heal other players with so perhaps the DPS won't have to use vigor to heal themselves. They can actually rely on a healer to do it for them.
And not every ___ ____ comment on this forum has to be in the context of 12 man veteran raids. I would imagine far more players do 4 man content on this game than veteran trials anyway. So please stop perpetuating this myth that every comment made on this forum must be about veteran trials. It's getting very tedious.
But 4 man Content doesnt even Need healing in most cases. And in those it does you can make do with the nerfed springs and orbs, you only Need to heal 3 Targets, flashheals like BoL will be fine and in 4 man Regeneration can be useful.
But in 12 man, where springs and orbs healing Output nerfs actually matters Regeneration wont come even close to being a viable alternative. Thats why most People are Talking About vet Trial healing because it actually suffers from the changes.
Yup, this.
Four man healing will indeed be more fun and more versatile now. You're not wrong.
But the issues trial healers are bringing up are not less valid for that fact. We are specifically focused on AoE heals for a reason! That being: we have no viable alternatives on live.
If this does not affect you, awesome! But .. it affects us, so, let us discuss that. Thanks.
so basically what you are saying is - ALL of us are getting hurt by this change, so we are allies here, not adversaries. (all I'm saying is that they seem to be adjusting skills for designated trial healer classes, so trials healers probably won't be as poorly off as 4 man pug healers that are not templars, but hey, i could be wrong and we are all suffering equally)
This is my opinion not fact;
Honestly, trials will likely force a 1 templar 1 warden meta. At least from my perspective or double templar in the event that the loss of healing power will hurt wardens pretty hard. so double templar would be a safety net. This is purely down to BoL and Ritual honestly.
Everyone got screwed by this patch it isn't just 4 man or raids. Both did. but the difference being is that a majority of raids require healers. A majority of Dungeons do not. That isn't too say healers shouldn't bother healing dungeons but in terms of actual need raid healers are far more necessary generally speaking.
Overall this entire patch sucks for everyone healers mostly but tank and DDs who are synergy heavy as well (not including stamnecro using lokkestizz). This will be different depending on the skill level but the average player will have it much worse than the higher end groups.Edited by xeNNNNN on July 11, 2019 8:54PMAh, e-communities - the "pinnacle" of the internet............yeah, right.3 -
Linaleah✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭snarkomatic wrote: »Sanguinor2 wrote: »
I explained why I brought up regeneration. Because it gives healers an effective and dependable heal to heal other players with so perhaps the DPS won't have to use vigor to heal themselves. They can actually rely on a healer to do it for them.
And not every ___ ____ comment on this forum has to be in the context of 12 man veteran raids. I would imagine far more players do 4 man content on this game than veteran trials anyway. So please stop perpetuating this myth that every comment made on this forum must be about veteran trials. It's getting very tedious.
But 4 man Content doesnt even Need healing in most cases. And in those it does you can make do with the nerfed springs and orbs, you only Need to heal 3 Targets, flashheals like BoL will be fine and in 4 man Regeneration can be useful.
But in 12 man, where springs and orbs healing Output nerfs actually matters Regeneration wont come even close to being a viable alternative. Thats why most People are Talking About vet Trial healing because it actually suffers from the changes.
Yup, this.
Four man healing will indeed be more fun and more versatile now. You're not wrong.
But the issues trial healers are bringing up are not less valid for that fact. We are specifically focused on AoE heals for a reason! That being: we have no viable alternatives on live.
If this does not affect you, awesome! But .. it affects us, so, let us discuss that. Thanks.
so basically what you are saying is - ALL of us are getting hurt by this change, so we are allies here, not adversaries. (all I'm saying is that they seem to be adjusting skills for designated trial healer classes, so trials healers probably won't be as poorly off as 4 man pug healers that are not templars, but hey, i could be wrong and we are all suffering equally)
This is my opinion not fact;
Honestly, trials will likely force a 1 templar 1 warden meta. At least from my perspective or double templar in the event that the loss of healing power will hurt wardens pretty hard. so double templar would be a safety net. This is purely down to BoL and Ritual honestly.
Everyone got screwed by this patch it isn't just 4 man or raids. Both did. but the difference being is that a majority of raids require healers. A majority of Dungeons do not. That isn't too say healers shouldn't bother healing dungeons but in terms of actual need raid healers are far more necessary generally speaking.
Overall this entire patch sucks for everyone healers mostly but tank and DDs who are synergy heavy as well (not including stamnecro using lokkestizz). This will be different depending on the skill level but the average player will have it much worse than the higher end groups.
Bolded is exactly concern I've been expressing all along.
dirty worthless casual.
Lois McMaster Bujold "A Civil Campaign"Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself. Guard your honor. Let your reputation fall where it will. And outlive the ***1 -
CipherNine✭✭✭✭✭snarkomatic wrote: »Sanguinor2 wrote: »
I explained why I brought up regeneration. Because it gives healers an effective and dependable heal to heal other players with so perhaps the DPS won't have to use vigor to heal themselves. They can actually rely on a healer to do it for them.
And not every ___ ____ comment on this forum has to be in the context of 12 man veteran raids. I would imagine far more players do 4 man content on this game than veteran trials anyway. So please stop perpetuating this myth that every comment made on this forum must be about veteran trials. It's getting very tedious.
But 4 man Content doesnt even Need healing in most cases. And in those it does you can make do with the nerfed springs and orbs, you only Need to heal 3 Targets, flashheals like BoL will be fine and in 4 man Regeneration can be useful.
But in 12 man, where springs and orbs healing Output nerfs actually matters Regeneration wont come even close to being a viable alternative. Thats why most People are Talking About vet Trial healing because it actually suffers from the changes.
Yup, this.
Four man healing will indeed be more fun and more versatile now. You're not wrong.
But the issues trial healers are bringing up are not less valid for that fact. We are specifically focused on AoE heals for a reason! That being: we have no viable alternatives on live.
If this does not affect you, awesome! But .. it affects us, so, let us discuss that. Thanks.
so basically what you are saying is - ALL of us are getting hurt by this change, so we are allies here, not adversaries. (all I'm saying is that they seem to be adjusting skills for designated trial healer classes, so trials healers probably won't be as poorly off as 4 man pug healers that are not templars, but hey, i could be wrong and we are all suffering equally)
This is my opinion not fact;
Honestly, trials will likely force a 1 templar 1 warden meta. At least from my perspective or double templar in the event that the loss of healing power will hurt wardens pretty hard. so double templar would be a safety net. This is purely down to BoL and Ritual honestly.
Everyone got screwed by this patch it isn't just 4 man or raids. Both did. but the difference being is that a majority of raids require healers. A majority of Dungeons do not. That isn't too say healers shouldn't bother healing dungeons but in terms of actual need raid healers are far more necessary generally speaking.
Overall this entire patch sucks for everyone healers mostly but tank and DDs who are synergy heavy as well (not including stamnecro using lokkestizz). This will be different depending on the skill level but the average player will have it much worse than the higher end groups.
Exactly right. This is the most likely thing to happen. It's funny the people that defend this patch like to also say they want the game to have diversity yet they cheer for things that destroy it lol.
If this patch goes to live with the way it is. Then you will have all the people that is defending this patch back here on the forums bitching about it.
How their pug groups are horrendous. That groups will now only want Templar healers.
Also possibly that there are a long ass wait for healers in group finder cause people wont want to do it anymore.
There trial groups are a lot more harder and are just failing to clear trials. Especially any pug group for craglorn trials.
I can't wait for it to happen. Nothing annoys more than people defend dumb changes that hurt the game. They all deserve for it ruin their gameplay.Edited by CipherNine on July 11, 2019 9:55PMPC-NA
Khajiit Templar - Healer
Argonian Necromancer - Healer
Breton Warden - Healer
Nord Necromancer - Tank
Argonian Templar - Tank
Nord Warden - Tank2 -
This won't force templar healers. It will potentially force a templar in the group though whether it be Magicka DD or Stamina DD for trials even without shards ppl will be fine. On top of this were getting 2 new sets one effectively being an orb for magicka users and the other a monster set that has insane recovery potential Not to mention Stamina rotations will be all around cheaper because of a magicka dot being added into their rotations "soul trap" Not to mention if stam is still starving there are multiple healer sets that can improve it heck we might even see stamina healers with the new protection circle. I'm excited for almost all of these changes tbh. At first glance people will typically freak out but after testing and reading through everything its not that bad at all.1
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iLLcrime✭✭✭✭Donnasnowheart_ESO wrote: »This won't force templar healers. It will potentially force a templar in the group though whether it be Magicka DD or Stamina DD for trials even without shards ppl will be fine. On top of this were getting 2 new sets one effectively being an orb for magicka users and the other a monster set that has insane recovery potential Not to mention Stamina rotations will be all around cheaper because of a magicka dot being added into their rotations "soul trap" Not to mention if stam is still starving there are multiple healer sets that can improve it heck we might even see stamina healers with the new protection circle. I'm excited for almost all of these changes tbh. At first glance people will typically freak out but after testing and reading through everything its not that bad at all.
I hope your excitement helps you get through those heal checks *Kappa*I put on my robe and wizard hat8 -
RogueShark✭✭✭✭✭
✭Donnasnowheart_ESO wrote: »This won't force templar healers. It will potentially force a templar in the group though whether it be Magicka DD or Stamina DD for trials even without shards ppl will be fine. On top of this were getting 2 new sets one effectively being an orb for magicka users and the other a monster set that has insane recovery potential Not to mention Stamina rotations will be all around cheaper because of a magicka dot being added into their rotations "soul trap" Not to mention if stam is still starving there are multiple healer sets that can improve it heck we might even see stamina healers with the new protection circle. I'm excited for almost all of these changes tbh. At first glance people will typically freak out but after testing and reading through everything its not that bad at all.
Shards aren't what are going to shove templars front and center, though it WILL help to have a shard to toss across the room while your single orb lazily floats through the rest of the group. They get that added benefit.
What is going to make templars (and to some extent, wardens and necro) healers become mandatory (whereas right now you can heal pretty much any non-score-pushing content in the game with any class) is the fact that these three classes have AoE class heals and HoTs to help deal with the grand healing and orb nerf.
Sorc, NB and DK do not really have the toolkit to handle this right now.
A sorc healing brings nothing to the table in the way of healing through massive AoE damage/DoTs. They have zero class-access to an AoE heal outside of an ultimate.PC NA
Will heal DPS for memes.4 -
xenowarrior92eb17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭RogueShark wrote: »Actually everyone can synergize the same orb now, so all it's done was made being a battery for DPS more braindead. It will be mildly inconvenient in things like vAS+2, but not horribly so.
Instead we get to spam combat prayer in a line to heal people up. Sounds like a blast over spamming two skills + trying to keep CBP up along eith your other buffs/debuffs. Definitely more skillful.
I guess everyone can touch you ball now
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Beardimus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I've not looked at the changes closely but am concerned about impact to high end Sorc Healers on this, more on a resource front. I'm commenting blind though as haven't looked in detail at the notes.
Xbox One | EU | EP
Beardimus : VR16 Dunmer MagSorc [RIP MagDW 2015-2018]
Emperor of Sotha Sil 02-2018 & Sheogorath 05-2019
1st Emperor of RavenwatchAlts - - for the Lolz
Archimus : Bosmer Thief / Archer / Werewolf
Orcimus : Fat drunk Orc battlefield 1st aider
Scalimus - Argonian Sorc Healer / Pet master
Fighting small scale with : The SAXON Guild
Fighting with [PvP] : The Undaunted Wolves
Trading Guilds : TradersOfNirn | FourSquareTraders
Xbox One | NA | EP
Bëardimus : L43 Dunmer Magsorc / BG
Heals-With-Pets : VR16 Argonian Sorc PvP / BG Healer
Nordimus : VR16 Stamsorc
Beardimus le 13iem : L30 Dunmer Magsorc Icereach0 -
damdamjel✭✭✭I would be happy and embrace the changes only if the devs behind the idea of these changes put up a video of them running vHoF and justify the chnges that everything end game vet is still doable. Without forcing sets and class specific skills to run as a healer. If they made these changes just so that everyone will be forced to use the new healing sets and buy them off dlcs? I would take a break until the next balance patch comes out. I hope the PTS pros can do or say something to save the healing aspect of the game. If the meta changes of having to bring 2-5 healers in trials impacting the dps numbers. I dont have the time to sit in vet trials lasting for hours just to get garbage loot. Thats just me...5 -
Ozby✭✭✭✭✭brandoncoffmannub18_ESO wrote: »So many people muddy these forums with saying changes are good, changes are bad without having the context or knowledge of what the role is, if you don't have actual experience or knowledge, please keep your opinions which you act like facts to yourself, because you are just adding fluff and nonsense, if you use some arithmetic or proofs that are actually valid, fine, but don't just scream because you read something and don't know have a clue what you are talking about.
I can understand the frustration heck it gets me going too, but you cannot tell people that they cannot voice their opinions on public forums lol! After all is that not what they are meant for? We just need to ignore the unfounded ones.PC NA
Aurora Bravepaw (Healden), Basks in Fire (DKTank), Bran Artlion (Magplar), Brindel Seedthorne (Stamden WW), Brugo Gargak (Stamcro), Casimir Delmar (StamDK), Falco Bastion (Stamsorc), Fus Ro Dah (Stamplar), Gandalff the Gay (Petsorc), Jo-Qinan Betula (Magden), Laveera Hex (Magcro), Raine Whitestag (Stamden), Raised by Bears (Wardentank), Ralak Rotheart (Healcro), Selene Sunshadow MagDK), Shadow Mirage (NBTank), Slythe Rattlebone (Healplar), Ulfnor Dragonslayer (Tankcro).0 -
Ozby✭✭✭✭✭RogueShark wrote: »Donnasnowheart_ESO wrote: »This won't force templar healers. It will potentially force a templar in the group though whether it be Magicka DD or Stamina DD for trials even without shards ppl will be fine. On top of this were getting 2 new sets one effectively being an orb for magicka users and the other a monster set that has insane recovery potential Not to mention Stamina rotations will be all around cheaper because of a magicka dot being added into their rotations "soul trap" Not to mention if stam is still starving there are multiple healer sets that can improve it heck we might even see stamina healers with the new protection circle. I'm excited for almost all of these changes tbh. At first glance people will typically freak out but after testing and reading through everything its not that bad at all.
Shards aren't what are going to shove templars front and center, though it WILL help to have a shard to toss across the room while your single orb lazily floats through the rest of the group. They get that added benefit.
What is going to make templars (and to some extent, wardens and necro) healers become mandatory (whereas right now you can heal pretty much any non-score-pushing content in the game with any class) is the fact that these three classes have AoE class heals and HoTs to help deal with the grand healing and orb nerf.
Sorc, NB and DK do not really have the toolkit to handle this right now.
A sorc healing brings nothing to the table in the way of healing through massive AoE damage/DoTs. They have zero class-access to an AoE heal outside of an ultimate.
Yeah that's what concerns me as well for players who play DK,NB,Sorc healers.PC NA
Aurora Bravepaw (Healden), Basks in Fire (DKTank), Bran Artlion (Magplar), Brindel Seedthorne (Stamden WW), Brugo Gargak (Stamcro), Casimir Delmar (StamDK), Falco Bastion (Stamsorc), Fus Ro Dah (Stamplar), Gandalff the Gay (Petsorc), Jo-Qinan Betula (Magden), Laveera Hex (Magcro), Raine Whitestag (Stamden), Raised by Bears (Wardentank), Ralak Rotheart (Healcro), Selene Sunshadow MagDK), Shadow Mirage (NBTank), Slythe Rattlebone (Healplar), Ulfnor Dragonslayer (Tankcro).1
