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The Orb Change is a GOOD Thing
-
danara✭✭✭snarkomatic wrote: »snarkomatic wrote: »snarkomatic wrote: »snarkomatic wrote: »snarkomatic wrote: »[quote=snarkomatic wrote: »snarkomatic wrote: »snarkomatic wrote: »Sanguinor2 wrote: »
So discuss it. Who was standing in your way of discussing it?
People can post comments about how they like the new regeneration without somehow preventing you from discussing AoE healing. So I don't understand what your point is suppose to be.
There is more to this game than simply healing through some AoE phase during some veteran trial. Not every comment about this subject has to revolve around this one specific circumstance and it's extremely unreasonable to expect that it should.
I personally commented on Regeneration because everyone Talking About healing in this thread is Talking About Trials. So I assumed that you too would talk About Trials and thats the reason for the answer you got from me.
It was a general comment meant to apply to all content.
The new regeneration should work well as a tool to heal DPS in any content - including trials, 4 mans, anything that involves a player taking damage and not having to use vigor themselves. It makes healers more dependable - especially in circumstances where people are spread about and taking damage.
But it literally does not, and that is why trial healers are saying you're wrong. A single-target, unreliable-target HoT does not work for us. Most healers don't run it in trials even as the dual-target HoT it is on live. This is not a thing that helps us, and definitely is not a thing that will account for multiple stacks of illustrious.
I appreciate your input, but it doesn't belong here.
I've healed trials and I disagree with you.
The new regeneration looks nice. And just because you disagree with someone - that doesn't mean their input doesn't "belong here". These forums don't belong to you.
You're right, they don't! But .. this thread is pretty focused on VET trials and the loss healers are experiencing in that context. So you can share all the feedback you want for how this helps you and the content you do .. but that doesn't make it at all applicable to the content we do and the HPS we need.
As I told you - I believe the new regeneration will be an asset to healers in any content - including your veteran trials.
Now it may not not make up the difference for your orb spamming during AoE phases. But my post was not about that - nor does everything I post need to be about that.
I won't engage with the strawman that I "spam" orbs. That's been covered to death here in the last 48hrs and you should know better by now.
Main point being, you absolutely cannot run regen in vet trials as a reliable heal even on live, and much less can you do so after the patch that makes it apply to only one (unpredictable, un-target-able) player at a time. This is just silly to argue about. Focus on the numbers.
The "your" in my post was not meant in reference to you in particular. I have no idea how you play nor do I claim to know. It was meant generally as it relates to the debate as to whether or not orb spamming was the only viable way to heal during AoE phases. So that wasn't meant as a strawman. It was me merely point out that's not a topic I was engaging.
And why on earth can't you run regen in a vet trial?
Because you are looking at (6 on live, 12 on PTS) global cooldowns for an underwhelming HPS number that would require most of your resources and most of your GCD time to keep running. You cannot target it, you cannot control it, and it does not always even apply to people missing the buff because ZoS has such a buggy combat system.
It literally just does not work. It is not worthy of the time required to keep it running even as it exists on live, much less after the target number nerf as it is on PTS. It is inefficient on a good day.
t may not work as an effective replacement for orb or healing spring spamming during an AoE phase in a veteran trial - but as a healing tool generally it's an improvement and should help healers heal other players more effectively outside of that one occurrence you keep bringing up.
"That one occurrence" ... aka, the heal checks we are all concerned about?
You're right. Outside of those heal checks we are all worried about meeting, healing will be fine. It's like you don't understand what we keep saying in plain English: we cannot meet those heal checks with these numbers. And if you don't understand that, or don't interact with that, then your input is irrelevant to this specific subject.
No - it's like you don't understand not everyone else is only concerned with what you are.
I've told you at least 3 times now that one specific circumstance is not what I'm talking about. And if you don't like what I"m talking about - simply ignore my posts. Demanding that I only talk about what you want to talk about otherwise I should get off the forum is ridiculous.
I never, ever said you should get off the forum. Please take a breath.
I said your input is irrelevant to this one specific circumstance if you are not interested in meeting the heal checks we are all concerned about meeting. It's quoted right there above what you said in response. Idk what else to tell ya, bud.
You certainly gave that impression by saying I shouldn't be giving my "input" And I"m perfectly relaxed. I don't need to take a breath. Not sure why you think I'm angry or excited. I'm neither, trust me.
But you don't speak for everyone else. You keep talking as if you speak for "all" when I imagine it's only a tiny minority of people who play this game who even do veteran trials. So this idea unless you are talking about AoE phases during a veteran trial your input is irrelevant is silly.
I also don't know what else to tell you either - other than to suggest you simply ignore my comments if they're not talking about something you want to be talking about.
Okay. Have a nice night, then.
For perspective tho, the reason why people are telling you "don't comment if it doesn't affect you" is ... because you keep telling us it doesn't affect you lol.
This does affect me though - meaning the topic generally.
One of the reasons I quit my healer is I got sick of people demanding that I spam orbs and the lack of an effective heal that was omnidirectional.
These changes fix both of these problems for me. So naturally I'm going to defend them. It may even get me into healing again.
But ... neither of those things are an actual legitimate issue in healing as it exists on live. So I fail to see your point, as a healer main on live.
They were an issue for me. So they are "actual legitimate issues" as far as I am concerned.
Trying to heal pugs with directional frontal heals and stacking positional heals is a nightmare. So this new regeneration is going to be a God sent for me if it works like It appears to me it does. And I no longer have to worry about some member pestering me to spam orbs either. Which will be nice.
Though if it's as buggy as you claim I may end up being disappointed with it.
Give me your thought when you will Just spam Régénération to keep it up on a 12 player party. you are kind of funny, dont want to spam orbs but want to spam Regeneration 😂11 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭snarkomatic wrote: »snarkomatic wrote: »snarkomatic wrote: »snarkomatic wrote: »snarkomatic wrote: »[quote=snarkomatic wrote: »snarkomatic wrote: »snarkomatic wrote: »Sanguinor2 wrote: »
So discuss it. Who was standing in your way of discussing it?
People can post comments about how they like the new regeneration without somehow preventing you from discussing AoE healing. So I don't understand what your point is suppose to be.
There is more to this game than simply healing through some AoE phase during some veteran trial. Not every comment about this subject has to revolve around this one specific circumstance and it's extremely unreasonable to expect that it should.
I personally commented on Regeneration because everyone Talking About healing in this thread is Talking About Trials. So I assumed that you too would talk About Trials and thats the reason for the answer you got from me.
It was a general comment meant to apply to all content.
The new regeneration should work well as a tool to heal DPS in any content - including trials, 4 mans, anything that involves a player taking damage and not having to use vigor themselves. It makes healers more dependable - especially in circumstances where people are spread about and taking damage.
But it literally does not, and that is why trial healers are saying you're wrong. A single-target, unreliable-target HoT does not work for us. Most healers don't run it in trials even as the dual-target HoT it is on live. This is not a thing that helps us, and definitely is not a thing that will account for multiple stacks of illustrious.
I appreciate your input, but it doesn't belong here.
I've healed trials and I disagree with you.
The new regeneration looks nice. And just because you disagree with someone - that doesn't mean their input doesn't "belong here". These forums don't belong to you.
You're right, they don't! But .. this thread is pretty focused on VET trials and the loss healers are experiencing in that context. So you can share all the feedback you want for how this helps you and the content you do .. but that doesn't make it at all applicable to the content we do and the HPS we need.
As I told you - I believe the new regeneration will be an asset to healers in any content - including your veteran trials.
Now it may not not make up the difference for your orb spamming during AoE phases. But my post was not about that - nor does everything I post need to be about that.
I won't engage with the strawman that I "spam" orbs. That's been covered to death here in the last 48hrs and you should know better by now.
Main point being, you absolutely cannot run regen in vet trials as a reliable heal even on live, and much less can you do so after the patch that makes it apply to only one (unpredictable, un-target-able) player at a time. This is just silly to argue about. Focus on the numbers.
The "your" in my post was not meant in reference to you in particular. I have no idea how you play nor do I claim to know. It was meant generally as it relates to the debate as to whether or not orb spamming was the only viable way to heal during AoE phases. So that wasn't meant as a strawman. It was me merely point out that's not a topic I was engaging.
And why on earth can't you run regen in a vet trial?
Because you are looking at (6 on live, 12 on PTS) global cooldowns for an underwhelming HPS number that would require most of your resources and most of your GCD time to keep running. You cannot target it, you cannot control it, and it does not always even apply to people missing the buff because ZoS has such a buggy combat system.
It literally just does not work. It is not worthy of the time required to keep it running even as it exists on live, much less after the target number nerf as it is on PTS. It is inefficient on a good day.
t may not work as an effective replacement for orb or healing spring spamming during an AoE phase in a veteran trial - but as a healing tool generally it's an improvement and should help healers heal other players more effectively outside of that one occurrence you keep bringing up.
"That one occurrence" ... aka, the heal checks we are all concerned about?
You're right. Outside of those heal checks we are all worried about meeting, healing will be fine. It's like you don't understand what we keep saying in plain English: we cannot meet those heal checks with these numbers. And if you don't understand that, or don't interact with that, then your input is irrelevant to this specific subject.
No - it's like you don't understand not everyone else is only concerned with what you are.
I've told you at least 3 times now that one specific circumstance is not what I'm talking about. And if you don't like what I"m talking about - simply ignore my posts. Demanding that I only talk about what you want to talk about otherwise I should get off the forum is ridiculous.
I never, ever said you should get off the forum. Please take a breath.
I said your input is irrelevant to this one specific circumstance if you are not interested in meeting the heal checks we are all concerned about meeting. It's quoted right there above what you said in response. Idk what else to tell ya, bud.
You certainly gave that impression by saying I shouldn't be giving my "input" And I"m perfectly relaxed. I don't need to take a breath. Not sure why you think I'm angry or excited. I'm neither, trust me.
But you don't speak for everyone else. You keep talking as if you speak for "all" when I imagine it's only a tiny minority of people who play this game who even do veteran trials. So this idea unless you are talking about AoE phases during a veteran trial your input is irrelevant is silly.
I also don't know what else to tell you either - other than to suggest you simply ignore my comments if they're not talking about something you want to be talking about.
Okay. Have a nice night, then.
For perspective tho, the reason why people are telling you "don't comment if it doesn't affect you" is ... because you keep telling us it doesn't affect you lol.
This does affect me though - meaning the topic generally.
One of the reasons I quit my healer is I got sick of people demanding that I spam orbs and the lack of an effective heal that was omnidirectional.
These changes fix both of these problems for me. So naturally I'm going to defend them. It may even get me into healing again.
But ... neither of those things are an actual legitimate issue in healing as it exists on live. So I fail to see your point, as a healer main on live.
They were an issue for me. So they are "actual legitimate issues" as far as I am concerned.
Trying to heal pugs with directional frontal heals and stacking positional heals is a nightmare. So this new regeneration is going to be a God sent for me if it works like It appears to me it does. And I no longer have to worry about some member pestering me to spam orbs either. Which will be nice.
Though if it's as buggy as you claim I may end up being disappointed with it.
Give me your thought when you will Just spam Régénération to keep it up on a 12 player party. you are kind of funny, dont want to spam orbs but want to spam Regeneration 😂
You are taking me out of context.
In one post all I did was suggest maybe someone should try using the new regeneration to compensate for the nerfs to orbs and healing springs. I never suggested anyone should continuously spam it - and I didn't even say it would work. All i did was suggest maybe they should give it a try. So I don't know why people keep obsessing over that one comment.
As I've said multiple times now - none of my comments are about healing through AoE damage during a veteran trial and that has nothing to do with why I support the changes to regeneration.
In fact - the new design of the spell seems adverse to spamming in all honesty - and seems almost as if it is now meant to be used as a direct single target heal. Which will be nice. But it may or may not be able to help compensate for the other nerfs. It was just an idea I suggested they try. Sue me. What's funny to me is what a big deal people try to make out of the smallest and silliest things.Edited by Jeremy on July 11, 2019 6:36AM0 -
danara✭✭✭snarkomatic wrote: »snarkomatic wrote: »snarkomatic wrote: »snarkomatic wrote: »snarkomatic wrote: »[quote=snarkomatic wrote: »snarkomatic wrote: »snarkomatic wrote: »Sanguinor2 wrote: »
So discuss it. Who was standing in your way of discussing it?
People can post comments about how they like the new regeneration without somehow preventing you from discussing AoE healing. So I don't understand what your point is suppose to be.
There is more to this game than simply healing through some AoE phase during some veteran trial. Not every comment about this subject has to revolve around this one specific circumstance and it's extremely unreasonable to expect that it should.
I personally commented on Regeneration because everyone Talking About healing in this thread is Talking About Trials. So I assumed that you too would talk About Trials and thats the reason for the answer you got from me.
It was a general comment meant to apply to all content.
The new regeneration should work well as a tool to heal DPS in any content - including trials, 4 mans, anything that involves a player taking damage and not having to use vigor themselves. It makes healers more dependable - especially in circumstances where people are spread about and taking damage.
But it literally does not, and that is why trial healers are saying you're wrong. A single-target, unreliable-target HoT does not work for us. Most healers don't run it in trials even as the dual-target HoT it is on live. This is not a thing that helps us, and definitely is not a thing that will account for multiple stacks of illustrious.
I appreciate your input, but it doesn't belong here.
I've healed trials and I disagree with you.
The new regeneration looks nice. And just because you disagree with someone - that doesn't mean their input doesn't "belong here". These forums don't belong to you.
You're right, they don't! But .. this thread is pretty focused on VET trials and the loss healers are experiencing in that context. So you can share all the feedback you want for how this helps you and the content you do .. but that doesn't make it at all applicable to the content we do and the HPS we need.
As I told you - I believe the new regeneration will be an asset to healers in any content - including your veteran trials.
Now it may not not make up the difference for your orb spamming during AoE phases. But my post was not about that - nor does everything I post need to be about that.
I won't engage with the strawman that I "spam" orbs. That's been covered to death here in the last 48hrs and you should know better by now.
Main point being, you absolutely cannot run regen in vet trials as a reliable heal even on live, and much less can you do so after the patch that makes it apply to only one (unpredictable, un-target-able) player at a time. This is just silly to argue about. Focus on the numbers.
The "your" in my post was not meant in reference to you in particular. I have no idea how you play nor do I claim to know. It was meant generally as it relates to the debate as to whether or not orb spamming was the only viable way to heal during AoE phases. So that wasn't meant as a strawman. It was me merely point out that's not a topic I was engaging.
And why on earth can't you run regen in a vet trial?
Because you are looking at (6 on live, 12 on PTS) global cooldowns for an underwhelming HPS number that would require most of your resources and most of your GCD time to keep running. You cannot target it, you cannot control it, and it does not always even apply to people missing the buff because ZoS has such a buggy combat system.
It literally just does not work. It is not worthy of the time required to keep it running even as it exists on live, much less after the target number nerf as it is on PTS. It is inefficient on a good day.
t may not work as an effective replacement for orb or healing spring spamming during an AoE phase in a veteran trial - but as a healing tool generally it's an improvement and should help healers heal other players more effectively outside of that one occurrence you keep bringing up.
"That one occurrence" ... aka, the heal checks we are all concerned about?
You're right. Outside of those heal checks we are all worried about meeting, healing will be fine. It's like you don't understand what we keep saying in plain English: we cannot meet those heal checks with these numbers. And if you don't understand that, or don't interact with that, then your input is irrelevant to this specific subject.
No - it's like you don't understand not everyone else is only concerned with what you are.
I've told you at least 3 times now that one specific circumstance is not what I'm talking about. And if you don't like what I"m talking about - simply ignore my posts. Demanding that I only talk about what you want to talk about otherwise I should get off the forum is ridiculous.
I never, ever said you should get off the forum. Please take a breath.
I said your input is irrelevant to this one specific circumstance if you are not interested in meeting the heal checks we are all concerned about meeting. It's quoted right there above what you said in response. Idk what else to tell ya, bud.
You certainly gave that impression by saying I shouldn't be giving my "input" And I"m perfectly relaxed. I don't need to take a breath. Not sure why you think I'm angry or excited. I'm neither, trust me.
But you don't speak for everyone else. You keep talking as if you speak for "all" when I imagine it's only a tiny minority of people who play this game who even do veteran trials. So this idea unless you are talking about AoE phases during a veteran trial your input is irrelevant is silly.
I also don't know what else to tell you either - other than to suggest you simply ignore my comments if they're not talking about something you want to be talking about.
Okay. Have a nice night, then.
For perspective tho, the reason why people are telling you "don't comment if it doesn't affect you" is ... because you keep telling us it doesn't affect you lol.
This does affect me though - meaning the topic generally.
One of the reasons I quit my healer is I got sick of people demanding that I spam orbs and the lack of an effective heal that was omnidirectional.
These changes fix both of these problems for me. So naturally I'm going to defend them. It may even get me into healing again.
But ... neither of those things are an actual legitimate issue in healing as it exists on live. So I fail to see your point, as a healer main on live.
They were an issue for me. So they are "actual legitimate issues" as far as I am concerned.
Trying to heal pugs with directional frontal heals and stacking positional heals is a nightmare. So this new regeneration is going to be a God sent for me if it works like It appears to me it does. And I no longer have to worry about some member pestering me to spam orbs either. Which will be nice.
Though if it's as buggy as you claim I may end up being disappointed with it.
Give me your thought when you will Just spam Régénération to keep it up on a 12 player party. you are kind of funny, dont want to spam orbs but want to spam Regeneration 😂
You are taking me out of context.
In one post all I did was suggest maybe someone should try using the new regeneration to compensate for the nerfs to orbs and healing springs. I never suggested anyone should continuously spam it - and I didn't even say it would work. All i did was suggest maybe they should give it a try. So I don't know why people keep obsessing over that one comment.
As I've said multiple times now - none of my comments are really about healing through AoE damage during a veteran trial and that has nothing to do with why I support the changes to regeneration.
In fact - the new design of the spell seems adverse to spamming in all honesty - and seems almost as if it is now meant to be used as a direct single target heal. Which will be nice. But it may or may not be able to help compensate for the other nerfs. It was just an idea I suggested they try. Sue me. What's funny to me is what a big deal people make out of the silliest things.
Not talking you out of context, Regeneration is unplayable in trial (EXCEPTION FOR vAS).
This spell got a pve nerf but a pvp buff especially in BG.
The problem, why everyone is fed up of you because you are saying "i dont want to use regeneration for compensate lost of healing springs for aoe heal damage" but the problem with this patch (and why everyone, except People like you Who doesnt know s**t about healing, are sreaming btw) Is that we have NOTHING to compensate the lack of heal without the current live server healing springs.
The silliest thing Hum ? You are the one Who is stuck in repeat mode with no arguments when everyone show you how you are wrong. And you keep spamming the forum with your genius idea of Regeneration, so yeah you pissed off everyone do not be surprise10 -
Ashtaris✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Jeremy: I’ve healed plenty of normal trials myself, but never Vet. I would never presume that I know what is needed for healing in a Vet trial unless I’ve been in that situation, and neither should you. In most cases, normal trials are fairly easy to heal and you may not need much more than Regen. But I’ve DPS’d Vet trials and I can tell you that going from normal to Vet is a night and day difference. I’m sure the same could be said about the healing requirements.8 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭snarkomatic wrote: »snarkomatic wrote: »snarkomatic wrote: »snarkomatic wrote: »snarkomatic wrote: »[quote=snarkomatic wrote: »snarkomatic wrote: »snarkomatic wrote: »Sanguinor2 wrote: »
So discuss it. Who was standing in your way of discussing it?
People can post comments about how they like the new regeneration without somehow preventing you from discussing AoE healing. So I don't understand what your point is suppose to be.
There is more to this game than simply healing through some AoE phase during some veteran trial. Not every comment about this subject has to revolve around this one specific circumstance and it's extremely unreasonable to expect that it should.
I personally commented on Regeneration because everyone Talking About healing in this thread is Talking About Trials. So I assumed that you too would talk About Trials and thats the reason for the answer you got from me.
It was a general comment meant to apply to all content.
The new regeneration should work well as a tool to heal DPS in any content - including trials, 4 mans, anything that involves a player taking damage and not having to use vigor themselves. It makes healers more dependable - especially in circumstances where people are spread about and taking damage.
But it literally does not, and that is why trial healers are saying you're wrong. A single-target, unreliable-target HoT does not work for us. Most healers don't run it in trials even as the dual-target HoT it is on live. This is not a thing that helps us, and definitely is not a thing that will account for multiple stacks of illustrious.
I appreciate your input, but it doesn't belong here.
I've healed trials and I disagree with you.
The new regeneration looks nice. And just because you disagree with someone - that doesn't mean their input doesn't "belong here". These forums don't belong to you.
You're right, they don't! But .. this thread is pretty focused on VET trials and the loss healers are experiencing in that context. So you can share all the feedback you want for how this helps you and the content you do .. but that doesn't make it at all applicable to the content we do and the HPS we need.
As I told you - I believe the new regeneration will be an asset to healers in any content - including your veteran trials.
Now it may not not make up the difference for your orb spamming during AoE phases. But my post was not about that - nor does everything I post need to be about that.
I won't engage with the strawman that I "spam" orbs. That's been covered to death here in the last 48hrs and you should know better by now.
Main point being, you absolutely cannot run regen in vet trials as a reliable heal even on live, and much less can you do so after the patch that makes it apply to only one (unpredictable, un-target-able) player at a time. This is just silly to argue about. Focus on the numbers.
The "your" in my post was not meant in reference to you in particular. I have no idea how you play nor do I claim to know. It was meant generally as it relates to the debate as to whether or not orb spamming was the only viable way to heal during AoE phases. So that wasn't meant as a strawman. It was me merely point out that's not a topic I was engaging.
And why on earth can't you run regen in a vet trial?
Because you are looking at (6 on live, 12 on PTS) global cooldowns for an underwhelming HPS number that would require most of your resources and most of your GCD time to keep running. You cannot target it, you cannot control it, and it does not always even apply to people missing the buff because ZoS has such a buggy combat system.
It literally just does not work. It is not worthy of the time required to keep it running even as it exists on live, much less after the target number nerf as it is on PTS. It is inefficient on a good day.
t may not work as an effective replacement for orb or healing spring spamming during an AoE phase in a veteran trial - but as a healing tool generally it's an improvement and should help healers heal other players more effectively outside of that one occurrence you keep bringing up.
"That one occurrence" ... aka, the heal checks we are all concerned about?
You're right. Outside of those heal checks we are all worried about meeting, healing will be fine. It's like you don't understand what we keep saying in plain English: we cannot meet those heal checks with these numbers. And if you don't understand that, or don't interact with that, then your input is irrelevant to this specific subject.
No - it's like you don't understand not everyone else is only concerned with what you are.
I've told you at least 3 times now that one specific circumstance is not what I'm talking about. And if you don't like what I"m talking about - simply ignore my posts. Demanding that I only talk about what you want to talk about otherwise I should get off the forum is ridiculous.
I never, ever said you should get off the forum. Please take a breath.
I said your input is irrelevant to this one specific circumstance if you are not interested in meeting the heal checks we are all concerned about meeting. It's quoted right there above what you said in response. Idk what else to tell ya, bud.
You certainly gave that impression by saying I shouldn't be giving my "input" And I"m perfectly relaxed. I don't need to take a breath. Not sure why you think I'm angry or excited. I'm neither, trust me.
But you don't speak for everyone else. You keep talking as if you speak for "all" when I imagine it's only a tiny minority of people who play this game who even do veteran trials. So this idea unless you are talking about AoE phases during a veteran trial your input is irrelevant is silly.
I also don't know what else to tell you either - other than to suggest you simply ignore my comments if they're not talking about something you want to be talking about.
Okay. Have a nice night, then.
For perspective tho, the reason why people are telling you "don't comment if it doesn't affect you" is ... because you keep telling us it doesn't affect you lol.
This does affect me though - meaning the topic generally.
One of the reasons I quit my healer is I got sick of people demanding that I spam orbs and the lack of an effective heal that was omnidirectional.
These changes fix both of these problems for me. So naturally I'm going to defend them. It may even get me into healing again.
But ... neither of those things are an actual legitimate issue in healing as it exists on live. So I fail to see your point, as a healer main on live.
They were an issue for me. So they are "actual legitimate issues" as far as I am concerned.
Trying to heal pugs with directional frontal heals and stacking positional heals is a nightmare. So this new regeneration is going to be a God sent for me if it works like It appears to me it does. And I no longer have to worry about some member pestering me to spam orbs either. Which will be nice.
Though if it's as buggy as you claim I may end up being disappointed with it.
Give me your thought when you will Just spam Régénération to keep it up on a 12 player party. you are kind of funny, dont want to spam orbs but want to spam Regeneration 😂
You are taking me out of context.
In one post all I did was suggest maybe someone should try using the new regeneration to compensate for the nerfs to orbs and healing springs. I never suggested anyone should continuously spam it - and I didn't even say it would work. All i did was suggest maybe they should give it a try. So I don't know why people keep obsessing over that one comment.
As I've said multiple times now - none of my comments are really about healing through AoE damage during a veteran trial and that has nothing to do with why I support the changes to regeneration.
In fact - the new design of the spell seems adverse to spamming in all honesty - and seems almost as if it is now meant to be used as a direct single target heal. Which will be nice. But it may or may not be able to help compensate for the other nerfs. It was just an idea I suggested they try. Sue me. What's funny to me is what a big deal people make out of the silliest things.
Not talking you out of context, Regeneration is unplayable in trial (EXCEPTION FOR vAS).
This spell got a pve nerf but a pvp buff especially in BG.
The problem, why everyone is fed up of you because you are saying "i dont want to use regeneration for compensate lost of healing springs for aoe heal damage" but the problem with this patch (and why everyone, except People like you Who doesnt know s**t about healing, are sreaming btw) Is that we have NOTHING to compensate the lack of heal without the current live server healing springs.
The silliest thing Hum ? You are the one Who is stuck in repeat mode with no arguments when everyone show you how you are wrong. And you keep spamming the forum with your genius idea of Regeneration, so yeah you pissed off everyone do not be surprise
Yes, you are taking me way out of context. All I did was suggest they try it in one comment....
And anyone who was "pissed off" by that needs to... actually I won't finish that sentence. I'll just say those people need to find way better things to get pissed off about. lol So I hope for their sake you are exaggerating when you say "everyone".
But let me say this for you again: just to be extra clear. I never said it did compensate for it. I just suggested they give it a try. And if you want me to stop talking about it - then stop bringing it up. Because the only reason I am still talking about that particular comment is because you brought it up - and in a completely different thread at that. So you can blame yourself for that.Edited by Jeremy on July 11, 2019 7:02AM0 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Jeremy: I’ve healed plenty of normal trials myself, but never Vet. I would never presume that I know what is needed for healing in a Vet trial unless I’ve been in that situation, and neither should you. In most cases, normal trials are fairly easy to heal and you may not need much more than Regen. But I’ve DPS’d Vet trials and I can tell you that going from normal to Vet is a night and day difference. I’m sure the same could be said about the healing requirements.
The problem with your post Ashtaris is that I never did presume to know what is needed - for anything, normal or vet trials. You're simply making things up and accusing me of doing things I never did.
I must be really fun to debate with or something...Edited by Jeremy on July 11, 2019 7:00AM0 -
danara✭✭✭@Jeremy and how many times did People told you why you Just dont have to give it try because this skills is worthless (in pve trial) ?
Why do you want to use this spell if we dont neet it then ? We want to compensate healing springs heal potency, and you are here claiming that you have something useless to try ?
And Now the worst ? Again you dont have any arguments so "People have to find better way to be pissed off". Dude come on, you are in a dead end so stop this6 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭@Jeremy and how many times did People told you why you Just dont have to give it try because this skills is worthless (in pve trial) ?
Why do you want to use this spell if we dont neet it then ? We want to compensate healing springs heal potency, and you are here claiming that you have something useless to try ?
And Now the worst ? Again you dont have any arguments so "People have to find better way to be pissed off". Dude come on, you are in a dead end so stop this
You are the one continuing this. Not me.
Not once in this thread did I ask anyone to try to and compensate for the nerfs to orbs and springs by using regeneration I suggested that once the other day in another thread. And it was just a suggestion. I didn't say it would work.
So maybe you should just stop this - because you're the actually the one continuing it. And yes - anyone who was "pissed off" by that is being ridiculous. It was just a suggestion. My God....
So anyone who actually was pissed off by that remark should just put me on ignore now and be done with it. Because I"m likely to *** them off again in the near future if that's all it took. So I invite you and these other healers who are so mad at me over that remark to please place me on ignore. Do yourself (and me) the favor.Edited by Jeremy on July 11, 2019 7:14AM0 -
danara✭✭✭Jeremy: I’ve healed plenty of normal trials myself, but never Vet. I would never presume that I know what is needed for healing in a Vet trial unless I’ve been in that situation, and neither should you. In most cases, normal trials are fairly easy to heal and you may not need much more than Regen. But I’ve DPS’d Vet trials and I can tell you that going from normal to Vet is a night and day difference. I’m sure the same could be said about the healing requirements.
The problem with your post Ashtaris is that I never did presume to know what is needed - for anything, normal or vet trials. You're simply making things up and accusing me of doing things I never did.
I must be really fun to debate with or something...
So if you dont know (cause you say you never assumed to) what it is to heal th) end game content (pve trial hm to be clear), why are you even here being your science ?
It s the same if you go talk with doctor Who works on a cancer cure and sayed "hey dont worry ! Try to take this pill !"5 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Jeremy: I’ve healed plenty of normal trials myself, but never Vet. I would never presume that I know what is needed for healing in a Vet trial unless I’ve been in that situation, and neither should you. In most cases, normal trials are fairly easy to heal and you may not need much more than Regen. But I’ve DPS’d Vet trials and I can tell you that going from normal to Vet is a night and day difference. I’m sure the same could be said about the healing requirements.
The problem with your post Ashtaris is that I never did presume to know what is needed - for anything, normal or vet trials. You're simply making things up and accusing me of doing things I never did.
I must be really fun to debate with or something...
So if you dont know (cause you say you never assumed to) what it is to heal th) end game content (pve trial hm to be clear), why are you even here being your science ?
It s the same if you go talk with doctor Who works on a cancer cure and sayed "hey dont worry ! Try to take this pill !"
This made no sense to me.
I'm not saying what is needed to heal through AoE damage in a veteran trial. In fact I have gone out of my way on numerous occasions to say that has nothing to do with what I'm talking about.
You're simply imagining things. I don't know what else to tell you. If my comments *** you off so much - just put me on ignore. Please. Then you'll spare us both.Edited by Jeremy on July 11, 2019 7:14AM0 -
damdamjel✭✭✭It now totally sucks to babysit newer players as the healer is trying to carry them in vet(hm) lmao. personally on this change, i dont want to run as a healer anymore. i am forced to use my templar for the healing kit. zos trying to set the stage for the templar class to shine this patch especially with Eclipse triple cc? and class access to fear? wow6 -
Ashtaris✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭What you should do Jeremy is bring in your healer next patch and heal a few Vet trials, get a taste of what it’s really like. The only way you will know is to try it yourself. Then if you are successful, you can boast about your achievements and tell the rest of us to eat crow
6 -
RogueShark✭✭✭✭✭
✭@Jeremy
Hey instead of just saying the same thing over and over, why not address action points and questions that you seem to ignore? Do you not have an answer to posts like this? (I don't necessarily agree with the aggressive tone of the poster below, but they make valid points and you... just went on posting the same nonsense to other people instead of giving a valid point in return.)
So tell me litlle genius, how will you heal vCR+3 execute phase or vHoF HM execute phase with the current pts state ? You dont want your healer to spam healing springs/orb ? OK. But tell me how the hell do i have to burst heal 12 People. And stop saying "Healing is Just about spamming orb" *wine wine wine* if you are a healer you drop 6 orb every 20 seconds (in trials) otherwise it is 3 in dunjeon.
Your post clearly show you know nothing about healing. Spamming orb... What about keeping combat prier up? Elemental punction ? Blockade ? Power of Light ? So stop doing the PGM on subject that you dont even have a damn clue like every noob who is supporting the change.
You can be fine with these changes as a normal trial healer, or someone who just likes to do 4man content where healers aren't even needed (even vBRP can be done with 1 Tank + 2dd and dead weight paying for a carry). But how about some acknowledgment for the fact that there is content in this game that may very well be impossible for healers to beat the healcheck now, and that they are making off-meta healers practically worthless due to lack of supplying them with adequate tools to handle these nerfs? Your lack of understanding and 'It's all about me!' mentality with zero compassion for people who prog and do harder end-game content is baffling.
It may not affect you, personally, but it does a LOT of other people, as evident by the 'uproar' over these changes. You don't HAVE to be an endgame trial raider or know anything about it to realize why these changes are unhealthy. People continue to debate and argue with you because you sound like a jerk, gleeful at other's dismay because it won't bother you at all in your normal trials and 4man content.Edited by RogueShark on July 11, 2019 7:37AMPC NA
Will heal DPS for memes.7 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭What you should do Jeremy is bring in your healer next patch and heal a few Vet trials, get a taste of what it’s really like. The only way you will know is to try it yourself. Then if you are successful, you can boast about your achievements and tell the rest of us to eat crow
haha
Well I might would try it. But I really have no interest in healing trials at the moment - normal or veteran. I used to - but I didn't really enjoy it. I was never that impressed with the whole stack and spam thing and would prefer they just eliminate it all together.
Mostly I just want to be able to play on my healer and have fun doing it again - which is something I haven't been able to do for a long time now. And these changes make me optimistic that I might actually be able to do that again which is why I am liking what I am reading about these changes. I don't have the time, commitment or desire to invest myself into another trial group.
I should probably add as a gesture of good will that I understand these nerfs to healing springs and orbs may negatively affect some, and I'm sorry about that. And while I"m not going to make the mistake of daring to suggest a work around again (lol) I would only say that healing on this game needed to move in a different direction. Hopefully this is just a first step.Edited by Jeremy on July 11, 2019 7:39AM0 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭RogueShark wrote: »@Jeremy
Hey instead of just saying the same thing over and over, why not address action points and questions that you seem to ignore? Do you not have an answer to posts like this? (I don't necessarily agree with the aggressive tone of the poster below, but they make valid points and you... just went on posting the same nonsense to other people instead of giving a valid point in return.)
And what points and questions are those?
If you want me to address specific points and questions - you need to tell me what they are. I'm not a mind reader.Edited by Jeremy on July 11, 2019 7:38AM0 -
RogueShark✭✭✭✭✭
✭RogueShark wrote: »@Jeremy
Hey instead of just saying the same thing over and over, why not address action points and questions that you seem to ignore? Do you not have an answer to posts like this? (I don't necessarily agree with the aggressive tone of the poster below, but they make valid points and you... just went on posting the same nonsense to other people instead of giving a valid point in return.)
And what points and questions are those?
If you want me to address specific points and questions - you need to tell me what they are. I'm not a mind reader.
Literally the one I quoted below.PC NA
Will heal DPS for memes.5 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭RogueShark wrote: »RogueShark wrote: »@Jeremy
Hey instead of just saying the same thing over and over, why not address action points and questions that you seem to ignore? Do you not have an answer to posts like this? (I don't necessarily agree with the aggressive tone of the poster below, but they make valid points and you... just went on posting the same nonsense to other people instead of giving a valid point in return.)
And what points and questions are those?
If you want me to address specific points and questions - you need to tell me what they are. I'm not a mind reader.
Literally the one I quoted below.
That quote was to another poster. It wasn't even directed at me.
So why are you getting on my case for not addressing questions and points that weren't even directed at me in the first place? I"m not Vercingetorix. I do my best to respond to all the posts aimed at me (which is work enough). But I draw the line at expecting me to address comments aimed at others.Edited by Jeremy on July 11, 2019 7:45AM0 -
RogueShark✭✭✭✭✭
✭Because you're in favor of these changes, all the way, no contest. So why not start refuting the points against them? Instead, you just say the same things over and over without actually addressing the clear-cut issues presented in argument.
Do you have no points against the ones made in that post?PC NA
Will heal DPS for memes.7 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭RogueShark wrote: »Because you're in favor of these changes, all the way, no contest. So why not start refuting the points against them? Instead, you just say the same things over and over without actually addressing the clear-cut issues presented in argument.
Do you have no points against the ones made in that post?
So because I like the changes you are expecting me to address the questions and points in every post directed at every other poster who also likes the changes?
Sorry, but that's a ridiculous expectation RogueSharek and one I'm not about to trouble myself with. So getting on my case over that is just silly. And from what little I saw of the quote - it was referring to Hard Mode Veteran Trials or something which has nothing to do with why I support these changes anyway. So there is nothing for me to respond to anyway.Edited by Jeremy on July 11, 2019 7:51AM0 -
RogueShark✭✭✭✭✭
✭You're right. Maybe I expect too much. People who are against these changes have posted several thoughtful reasons why they are not good, and in which situations they are. Many people who are for these changes never seem to want to address those specific issues, because it doesn't matter to them, so why should they care? I was simply assuming you would be interested in actually making a point or having some kind of idea as to what can be done in these situations, from the depths of your knowledge.
If you're legitimately fine with saying "F everyone else, I'm getting what I want" with zero interest in understanding why it's a legitimate problem for a large number of people, then there's really no point to discuss it further. You're welcome to feel that way. But then it's also kind of senseless to come posting on these threads acting like you know a lick about healing and what it requires, just because you're happy you get to spam regen in dungeons now and don't have to be bothered to throw more than one orb at a time.Edited by RogueShark on July 11, 2019 7:52AMPC NA
Will heal DPS for memes.9 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭RogueShark wrote: »You're right. Maybe I expect too much. People who are against these changes have posted several thoughtful reasons why they are not good, and in which situations they are. Many people who are for these changes never seem to want to address those specific issues, because it doesn't matter to them, so why should they care? I was simply assuming you would be interested in actually making a point or having some kind of idea as to what can be done in these situations, from the depths of your knowledge.
If you're legitimately fine with saying "F everyone else, I'm getting what I want" with zero interest in understanding why it's a legitimate problem for a large number of people, then there's really no point to discuss it further. You're welcome to feel that way. But then it's also kind of senseless to come posting on these threads acting like you know a lick healing and what it requires, just because you're happy you get to spam regen in dungeons now and don't have to be bothered to throw more than one orb at a time.
It's not that I don't care. I've already said I would fully support giving healers better area heals. I've been asking for that on these forums long before these changes. So if you want to talk about ways to improve healing on this game I'm perfectly fine with that. Anyone who is familiar with my post history can tell you I've been calling for improvements to healers on this game for a long time now.
But the current method of healing just wasn't doing it for me, I'm sorry. So I'm not sorry to see it go. You can get angry at me for that if you want.
Edited by Jeremy on July 11, 2019 7:59AM1 -
danara✭✭✭RogueShark wrote: »@Jeremy
Hey instead of just saying the same thing over and over, why not address action points and questions that you seem to ignore? Do you not have an answer to posts like this? (I don't necessarily agree with the aggressive tone of the poster below, but they make valid points and you... just went on posting the same nonsense to other people instead of giving a valid point in return.)
So tell me litlle genius, how will you heal vCR+3 execute phase or vHoF HM execute phase with the current pts state ? You dont want your healer to spam healing springs/orb ? OK. But tell me how the hell do i have to burst heal 12 People. And stop saying "Healing is Just about spamming orb" *wine wine wine* if you are a healer you drop 6 orb every 20 seconds (in trials) otherwise it is 3 in dunjeon.
Your post clearly show you know nothing about healing. Spamming orb... What about keeping combat prier up? Elemental punction ? Blockade ? Power of Light ? So stop doing the PGM on subject that you dont even have a damn clue like every noob who is supporting the change.
You can be fine with these changes as a normal trial healer, or someone who just likes to do 4man content where healers aren't even needed (even vBRP can be done with 1 Tank + 2dd and dead weight paying for a carry). But how about some acknowledgment for the fact that there is content in this game that may very well be impossible for healers to beat the healcheck now, and that they are making off-meta healers practically worthless due to lack of supplying them with adequate tools to handle these nerfs? Your lack of understanding and 'It's all about me!' mentality with zero compassion for people who prog and do harder end-game content is baffling.
It may not affect you, personally, but it does a LOT of other people, as evident by the 'uproar' over these changes. You don't HAVE to be an endgame trial raider or know anything about it to realize why these changes are unhealthy. People continue to debate and argue with you because you sound like a jerk, gleeful at other's dismay because it won't bother you at all in your normal trials and 4man content.
I Totally agree with your point Man,
What i said is "there is some fight even the Best optimised group cant beat"
But there is also the problem that a lot of casual player, or mid tier will Just have to much problem to heal if it goes live. Even if the group placement is Nice or whatever, and it is a fair pointEdited by danara on July 11, 2019 8:03AM1 -
RogueShark✭✭✭✭✭
✭I'm hardly angry at you, I am frustrated at people who don't set foot in the kind of content or play the off-meta classes where these tools are vital strutting around celebrating an 'end' to spamming orbs/springs when the reality of it is they're just encouraging you to spam combat prayer now.
The biggest issue with these changes isn't necessarily that they're changing: it's that they're changing now while failing to provide toolkits needed, especially to non-wardens and non-templars, to handle difficult content that was designed around the use and "spam" of healing springs. They're gutting the entire healing process and playstyle and blatantly saying that we're getting a costly stamina heal, and ritual, which is only for templars, to make up for it.
You can dislike the "old" healing style all you want, but what they're doing now is not the way to go about making changes effectively.PC NA
Will heal DPS for memes.6 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭RogueShark wrote: »I'm hardly angry at you, I am frustrated at people who don't set foot in the kind of content or play the off-meta classes where these tools are vital strutting around celebrating an 'end' to spamming orbs/springs when the reality of it is they're just encouraging you to spam combat prayer now.
The biggest issue with these changes isn't necessarily that they're changing: it's that they're changing now while failing to provide toolkits needed, especially to non-wardens and non-templars, to handle difficult content that was designed around the use and "spam" of healing springs. They're gutting the entire healing process and playstyle and blatantly saying that we're getting a costly stamina heal, and ritual, which is only for templars, to make up for it.
You can dislike the "old" healing style all you want, but what they're doing now is not the way to go about making changes effectively.
And if you were familiar with all of my comments on this topic - you would know that I have said already that I agree they should give healers the necessary tools to compensate for these nerfs. So you have no cause to accuse me of much of what you are throwing at me. It's just misdirected hyperbole.
I understand that you are pissed off about these nerfs. But taking it out on me isn't going to help. Some of us like these changes. I'm sorry but that's just the fact and expecting us all just to shut up isn't realistic . If healing hard mode veteran trials currently is impossible without orb and spring spamming - or casting it in succession (how ever you want to describe it) - then yes - they should address that and give healers the necessary tools. I've said that before - but I"ll say it again.Edited by Jeremy on July 11, 2019 8:18AM0 -
RogueShark✭✭✭✭✭
✭I Totally agree with your point Man,
What i said is "there is some fight even the Best optimised group cant beat"
But there is also the problem that a lot of casual player, or mid tier will Just have to much problem to heal if it goes live. Even if the group placement is Nice or whatever, and it is a fair point
TBH, 4man PUG heroes won't have any issues with healing after this. Mostly because self-healing in dungeons from DDs and tanks will be even more potent with things like vigor and even circle of protection. Healing was unnecessary in 4man content before; it will become laughably obsolete now. So these changes aren't going to hurt people who just casually queue in and pug dungeons, because the other three will probably be able to keep themselves alive no matter what the healer does.
I do agree with you that people who aren't the "best of the best" and are working on prog groups will struggle.
I'm in a core that's getting close to clearing Lokke HM. We got fire down, we just need to hammer out some issues with ice. As a sorc healer, once these changes drop, the way things are looking I literally will not have the toolkit to deal with the massive damage during add/beam phase. The dot is insane, and I have no class AoE heal to provide my side. I'll have to start bringing my warden, or drag my group down by making the DDs on my side run vigor or other ridiculous stuff.
As for @Jeremy
Awesome. You think they should give other healers more stuff. Cool. But they aren't looking like they're going to do that, are they? Any patch notes about changing skills for DKs/NBs/Sorcs? Any hint that our toolkits will be redone before the patch drops so that we aren't boned for however long it takes them to maybe give us some class skills?
You advocate for these changes without consideration for how poorly it affects others. You can say all you want that 'o yes they should make sure to make up for these nerfs!' but since there is no indication that the devs plan on doing that right now, it's a hollow statement. Your remarks all read as "Yay! I can spam regen and not worry about supplying multiple orbs! Shame about people who do content that requires more, but oooh well! Maybe they'll get something to compensate some day.'
The point I am trying to hammer home here is that these changes shouldn't even be going live until they have every class ready to deal with them so we can all continue healing. To be happy for these changes being set to be implemented before they ever do that reads as selfish and lacking the comprehension as to why it's wrong. I don't know how more clear I can explain it, so I won't drag this conversation on further.
Edit: Late night typos galore.Edited by RogueShark on July 11, 2019 8:22AMPC NA
Will heal DPS for memes.5 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭RogueShark wrote: »
As for @Jeremy
Awesome. You think they should give other healers more stuff. Cool. But they aren't looking like they're going to do that, are they? Any patch notes about changing skills for DKs/NBs/Sorcs? Any hint that our toolkits will be redone before the patch drops so that we aren't boned for however long it takes them to maybe give us some class skills?
You advocate for these changes without consideration for how poorly it affects others. You can say all you want that 'o yes they should make sure to make up for these nerfs!' but since there is no indication that the devs plan on doing that right now, it's a hollow statement. Your remarks all read as "Yay! I can spam regen and not worry about supplying multiple orbs! Shame about people who do content that requires more, but oooh well! Maybe they'll get something to compensate some day.'
I really wish you would stop attributing spamming regen to me. I never said anything about spamming regen. That was not true and something that was incorrectly attributed to me.
Secondly - I haven't played on my healer in over a year now. So how can you expect me to have intimate knowledge on what is necessary or not when healing hard mode trials? This idea you have that I cannot support any change unless I am fully aware of how it will affect everyone else in all manner of content and that there must be planned changes already in the works to compensate them is absurd. Literally no one does that.
I have already said I would support additional changes to healers in hard mode trials if they are necessary. That's all I can do. I"m not the developers - and cannot give you the changes you want I'm sorry. But just because you aren't happy with these changes doesn't mean I have to be unhappy with them too. I despise orb spamming and am delighted to see that abomination ending. Good riddance. But that doesn't mean I can't appreciate the situation you are in and support further changes to help your situation. That's way more than most people did for me when I was complaining about the nerfs to breath of life. I was told to just suck it up and git gud. So I believe I'm being more than fair.
Edited by Jeremy on July 11, 2019 8:38AM0 -
code65536✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭And why on earth can't you run regen in a vet trial?
LOL.
Why is it that people who don't understand how healing works are the ones who are most loudly defending bad changes to healing skills?Nightfighters ― PC/NA and PC/EU
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Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
Why can't you run regeneration in a veteran trial?
That was actually an honest question as it was bizarre to me when people told me you couldn't...
When I used to heal trials I certainly used regeneration. Maybe it would help if you would just answer people's questions instead of trying to insult them.Edited by Jeremy on July 11, 2019 9:02AM0 -
iLLcrime✭✭✭✭
Why can't you run regeneration in a veteran trial?
That was actually an honest question as it was bizarre to me when people told me you couldn't...
When I used to heal trials I certainly used regeneration. Maybe it would help if you would just answer people's questions instead of trying to insult them.
Because it's a bad heal for 12 man content, as it's been said many times before.I put on my robe and wizard hat1