Maintenance for the week of December 2:
• PC/Mac: NA and EU megaservers for patch maintenance – December 2, 4:00AM EST (9:00 UTC) - 9:00AM EST (14:00 UTC)
• Xbox: NA and EU megaservers for patch maintenance – December 4, 6:00AM EST (11:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EST (17:00 UTC)
• PlayStation®: NA and EU megaservers for patch maintenance – December 4, 6:00AM EST (11:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EST (17:00 UTC)
• PC/Mac: NA and EU megaservers for patch maintenance – December 2, 4:00AM EST (9:00 UTC) - 9:00AM EST (14:00 UTC)
• Xbox: NA and EU megaservers for patch maintenance – December 4, 6:00AM EST (11:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EST (17:00 UTC)
• PlayStation®: NA and EU megaservers for patch maintenance – December 4, 6:00AM EST (11:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EST (17:00 UTC)
The Orb Change is a GOOD Thing
-
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭jbjondeaueb17_ESO wrote: »snarkomatic wrote: »snarkomatic wrote: »Sanguinor2 wrote: »
I explained why I brought up regeneration. Because it gives healers an effective and dependable heal to heal other players with so perhaps the DPS won't have to use vigor to heal themselves. They can actually rely on a healer to do it for them.
And not every ___ ____ comment on this forum has to be in the context of 12 man veteran raids. I would imagine far more players do 4 man content on this game than veteran trials anyway. So please stop perpetuating this myth that every comment made on this forum must be about veteran trials. It's getting very tedious.
But 4 man Content doesnt even Need healing in most cases. And in those it does you can make do with the nerfed springs and orbs, you only Need to heal 3 Targets, flashheals like BoL will be fine and in 4 man Regeneration can be useful.
But in 12 man, where springs and orbs healing Output nerfs actually matters Regeneration wont come even close to being a viable alternative. Thats why most People are Talking About vet Trial healing because it actually suffers from the changes.
Yup, this.
Four man healing will indeed be more fun and more versatile now. You're not wrong.
But the issues trial healers are bringing up are not less valid for that fact. We are specifically focused on AoE heals for a reason! That being: we have no viable alternatives on live.
If this does not affect you, awesome! But .. it affects us, so, let us discuss that. Thanks.
So discuss it. Who was standing in your way of discussing it?
People can post comments about how they like the new regeneration without somehow preventing you from discussing AoE heals. So I don't understand what your point is suppose to be.
I've been following this discussion for a few days, and I know people have attacked you. I am not one of those people.
However, you are the one who said "not every ___ ____ comment on this forum has to be in the context of 12 man veteran raids" ... so I was just responding to that remark. You don't understand why we are so focused on that specific context, and I am explaining to you the reason -- that being, that we are hyper-focused on AoE heals because that is the thing we (1) need most to keep 12 people up at the exact same time; and (2) are losing most.
No one has attacked me that I saw. Disagreeing with me is not attacking me.
You can be focused on that one specific context if you want. I don't have any problem with that. What I have a problem with is when you expect everyone else to be as well.
My post in reference to regeneration in this thread had absolutely nothing to do with healing some AoE phase in a veteran trial. It had to with the fact it was going to make healers better at healing DPS - therefore they shouldn't have to use vigor as often. The reason healers are discarded in a lot of content is because they aren't as reliable as simply doing it yourself. These changes should help with that.
The only players happy about the new Regeneration are PvPers, mostly solo one, in 4 man dungeons you are going to spam it more than orbs on trials on Live if you want to keep it active on players at all time : 4 GCDs to keep it on everybody including yourself for a 5 GCDs duration, that's way more skills needed, sure.
You wouldn't have to keep it active on all players all the time. It looks potent enough to where you could use it as a reactive spell for when players when start take damage. Otherwise you could simply keep it on the tank.
Edited by Jeremy on July 11, 2019 3:33AM0 -
snarkomatic✭✭✭✭jbjondeaueb17_ESO wrote: »snarkomatic wrote: »snarkomatic wrote: »Sanguinor2 wrote: »
I explained why I brought up regeneration. Because it gives healers an effective and dependable heal to heal other players with so perhaps the DPS won't have to use vigor to heal themselves. They can actually rely on a healer to do it for them.
And not every ___ ____ comment on this forum has to be in the context of 12 man veteran raids. I would imagine far more players do 4 man content on this game than veteran trials anyway. So please stop perpetuating this myth that every comment made on this forum must be about veteran trials. It's getting very tedious.
But 4 man Content doesnt even Need healing in most cases. And in those it does you can make do with the nerfed springs and orbs, you only Need to heal 3 Targets, flashheals like BoL will be fine and in 4 man Regeneration can be useful.
But in 12 man, where springs and orbs healing Output nerfs actually matters Regeneration wont come even close to being a viable alternative. Thats why most People are Talking About vet Trial healing because it actually suffers from the changes.
Yup, this.
Four man healing will indeed be more fun and more versatile now. You're not wrong.
But the issues trial healers are bringing up are not less valid for that fact. We are specifically focused on AoE heals for a reason! That being: we have no viable alternatives on live.
If this does not affect you, awesome! But .. it affects us, so, let us discuss that. Thanks.
So discuss it. Who was standing in your way of discussing it?
People can post comments about how they like the new regeneration without somehow preventing you from discussing AoE heals. So I don't understand what your point is suppose to be.
I've been following this discussion for a few days, and I know people have attacked you. I am not one of those people.
However, you are the one who said "not every ___ ____ comment on this forum has to be in the context of 12 man veteran raids" ... so I was just responding to that remark. You don't understand why we are so focused on that specific context, and I am explaining to you the reason -- that being, that we are hyper-focused on AoE heals because that is the thing we (1) need most to keep 12 people up at the exact same time; and (2) are losing most.
No one has attacked me that I saw. Disagreeing with me is not attacking me.
You can be focused on that one specific context if you want. I don't have any problem with that. What I have a problem with is when you expect everyone else to be as well.
My post in reference to regeneration in this thread had absolutely nothing to do with healing some AoE phase in a veteran trial. It had to with the fact it was going to make healers better at healing DPS - therefore they shouldn't have to use vigor as often. The reason healers are discarded in a lot of content is because they aren't as reliable as simply doing it yourself. These changes should help with that.
The only players happy about the new Regeneration are PvPers, mostly solo one, in 4 man dungeons you are going to spam it more than orbs on trials on Live if you want to keep it active on players at all time : 4 GCDs to keep it on everybody including yourself for a 5 GCDs duration, that's way more skills needed, sure.
You wouldn't have to keep it active on all players all the time. It looks potent enough to where you could use it as a reactive spell for when players when they start take damage. Otherwise you could simply keep it on the tank.
But you literally cannot aim regen at a specific player. So. That isn't a thing that can be done, period.9 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭snarkomatic wrote: »snarkomatic wrote: »Sanguinor2 wrote: »
So discuss it. Who was standing in your way of discussing it?
People can post comments about how they like the new regeneration without somehow preventing you from discussing AoE healing. So I don't understand what your point is suppose to be.
There is more to this game than simply healing through some AoE phase during some veteran trial. Not every comment about this subject has to revolve around this one specific circumstance and it's extremely unreasonable to expect that it should.
I personally commented on Regeneration because everyone Talking About healing in this thread is Talking About Trials. So I assumed that you too would talk About Trials and thats the reason for the answer you got from me.
It was a general comment meant to apply to all content.
The new regeneration should work well as a tool to heal DPS in any content - including trials, 4 mans, anything that involves a player taking damage and not having to use vigor themselves. It makes healers more dependable - especially in circumstances where people are spread about and taking damage.
But it literally does not, and that is why trial healers are saying you're wrong. A single-target, unreliable-target HoT does not work for us. Most healers don't run it in trials even as the dual-target HoT it is on live. This is not a thing that helps us, and definitely is not a thing that will account for multiple stacks of illustrious.
I appreciate your input, but it doesn't belong here.
I've healed trials and I disagree with you.
The new regeneration looks nice. And just because you disagree with someone - that doesn't mean their input doesn't "belong here". These forums don't belong to you.
You're right, they don't! But .. this thread is pretty focused on VET trials and the loss healers are experiencing in that context. So you can share all the feedback you want for how this helps you and the content you do .. but that doesn't make it at all applicable to the content we do and the HPS we need.
As I told you - I believe the new regeneration will be an asset to healers in any content - including your veteran trials.
Now it may not not make up the difference for your orb spamming during AoE phases. But my post was not about that - nor does everything I post need to be about that.0 -
Aznarb✭✭✭✭✭
✭Man, those healers are just casting nothing but orbs these days.
Thanks for exposing your ignorance on the forums, though.
12 player to sustain, 20sec CD, 3 orb/swap (both healer do that), ofc it the most used one, simple math.
With the change, only one for everyone. It's a good thing.
I'm more worried with the Grand Healing change.
I've already give up on my NB heal main and go back to templar + looking to make a stam healer.
Off-meta healer are just dead for serious content and it's sad.
We still have plenty of time before change hit live, so I'm just waiting and hoping for some change like they did with Orbs.[ PC EU ]
[ Khuram-dar ]
[ Khajiit ]
[ Templar - Healer ]
[Crazy Gatherer & Compulsive Thief]1 -
snarkomatic✭✭✭✭snarkomatic wrote: »snarkomatic wrote: »Sanguinor2 wrote: »
So discuss it. Who was standing in your way of discussing it?
People can post comments about how they like the new regeneration without somehow preventing you from discussing AoE healing. So I don't understand what your point is suppose to be.
There is more to this game than simply healing through some AoE phase during some veteran trial. Not every comment about this subject has to revolve around this one specific circumstance and it's extremely unreasonable to expect that it should.
I personally commented on Regeneration because everyone Talking About healing in this thread is Talking About Trials. So I assumed that you too would talk About Trials and thats the reason for the answer you got from me.
It was a general comment meant to apply to all content.
The new regeneration should work well as a tool to heal DPS in any content - including trials, 4 mans, anything that involves a player taking damage and not having to use vigor themselves. It makes healers more dependable - especially in circumstances where people are spread about and taking damage.
But it literally does not, and that is why trial healers are saying you're wrong. A single-target, unreliable-target HoT does not work for us. Most healers don't run it in trials even as the dual-target HoT it is on live. This is not a thing that helps us, and definitely is not a thing that will account for multiple stacks of illustrious.
I appreciate your input, but it doesn't belong here.
I've healed trials and I disagree with you.
The new regeneration looks nice. And just because you disagree with someone - that doesn't mean their input doesn't "belong here". These forums don't belong to you.
You're right, they don't! But .. this thread is pretty focused on VET trials and the loss healers are experiencing in that context. So you can share all the feedback you want for how this helps you and the content you do .. but that doesn't make it at all applicable to the content we do and the HPS we need.
As I told you - I believe the new regeneration will be an asset to healers in any content - including your veteran trials.
Now it may not not make up the difference for your orb spamming during AoE phases. But my post was not about that - nor does everything I post need to be about that.
I won't engage with the strawman that I "spam" orbs. That's been covered to death here in the last 48hrs and you should know better by now.
Main point being, you absolutely cannot run regen in vet trials as a reliable heal even on live, and much less can you do so after the patch that makes it apply to only one (unpredictable, un-target-able) player at a time, and even if you could, it still would not account for four stacks of illustrious. This is just silly to argue about. Focus on the numbers.Edited by snarkomatic on July 11, 2019 3:45AM8 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭[quote=snarkomatic wrote: »snarkomatic wrote: »snarkomatic wrote: »Sanguinor2 wrote: »
So discuss it. Who was standing in your way of discussing it?
People can post comments about how they like the new regeneration without somehow preventing you from discussing AoE healing. So I don't understand what your point is suppose to be.
There is more to this game than simply healing through some AoE phase during some veteran trial. Not every comment about this subject has to revolve around this one specific circumstance and it's extremely unreasonable to expect that it should.
I personally commented on Regeneration because everyone Talking About healing in this thread is Talking About Trials. So I assumed that you too would talk About Trials and thats the reason for the answer you got from me.
It was a general comment meant to apply to all content.
The new regeneration should work well as a tool to heal DPS in any content - including trials, 4 mans, anything that involves a player taking damage and not having to use vigor themselves. It makes healers more dependable - especially in circumstances where people are spread about and taking damage.
But it literally does not, and that is why trial healers are saying you're wrong. A single-target, unreliable-target HoT does not work for us. Most healers don't run it in trials even as the dual-target HoT it is on live. This is not a thing that helps us, and definitely is not a thing that will account for multiple stacks of illustrious.
I appreciate your input, but it doesn't belong here.
I've healed trials and I disagree with you.
The new regeneration looks nice. And just because you disagree with someone - that doesn't mean their input doesn't "belong here". These forums don't belong to you.
You're right, they don't! But .. this thread is pretty focused on VET trials and the loss healers are experiencing in that context. So you can share all the feedback you want for how this helps you and the content you do .. but that doesn't make it at all applicable to the content we do and the HPS we need.
As I told you - I believe the new regeneration will be an asset to healers in any content - including your veteran trials.
Now it may not not make up the difference for your orb spamming during AoE phases. But my post was not about that - nor does everything I post need to be about that.
I won't engage with the strawman that I "spam" orbs. That's been covered to death here in the last 48hrs and you should know better by now.
Main point being, you absolutely cannot run regen in vet trials as a reliable heal even on live, and much less can you do so after the patch that makes it apply to only one (unpredictable, un-target-able) player at a time. This is just silly to argue about. Focus on the numbers.
The "your" in my post was not meant in reference to you in particular. I have no idea how you play. i don't even know who you are. It was meant generally as it relates to the debate as to whether or not orb spamming was the only viable way to heal during AoE phases. So that wasn't meant as a "strawman". It was me pointing out that's not a topic I was engaging.
And why on earth can't you run regen in a vet trial?Edited by Jeremy on July 11, 2019 3:49AM0 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭snarkomatic wrote: »jbjondeaueb17_ESO wrote: »snarkomatic wrote: »snarkomatic wrote: »Sanguinor2 wrote: »
I explained why I brought up regeneration. Because it gives healers an effective and dependable heal to heal other players with so perhaps the DPS won't have to use vigor to heal themselves. They can actually rely on a healer to do it for them.
And not every ___ ____ comment on this forum has to be in the context of 12 man veteran raids. I would imagine far more players do 4 man content on this game than veteran trials anyway. So please stop perpetuating this myth that every comment made on this forum must be about veteran trials. It's getting very tedious.
But 4 man Content doesnt even Need healing in most cases. And in those it does you can make do with the nerfed springs and orbs, you only Need to heal 3 Targets, flashheals like BoL will be fine and in 4 man Regeneration can be useful.
But in 12 man, where springs and orbs healing Output nerfs actually matters Regeneration wont come even close to being a viable alternative. Thats why most People are Talking About vet Trial healing because it actually suffers from the changes.
Yup, this.
Four man healing will indeed be more fun and more versatile now. You're not wrong.
But the issues trial healers are bringing up are not less valid for that fact. We are specifically focused on AoE heals for a reason! That being: we have no viable alternatives on live.
If this does not affect you, awesome! But .. it affects us, so, let us discuss that. Thanks.
So discuss it. Who was standing in your way of discussing it?
People can post comments about how they like the new regeneration without somehow preventing you from discussing AoE heals. So I don't understand what your point is suppose to be.
I've been following this discussion for a few days, and I know people have attacked you. I am not one of those people.
However, you are the one who said "not every ___ ____ comment on this forum has to be in the context of 12 man veteran raids" ... so I was just responding to that remark. You don't understand why we are so focused on that specific context, and I am explaining to you the reason -- that being, that we are hyper-focused on AoE heals because that is the thing we (1) need most to keep 12 people up at the exact same time; and (2) are losing most.
No one has attacked me that I saw. Disagreeing with me is not attacking me.
You can be focused on that one specific context if you want. I don't have any problem with that. What I have a problem with is when you expect everyone else to be as well.
My post in reference to regeneration in this thread had absolutely nothing to do with healing some AoE phase in a veteran trial. It had to with the fact it was going to make healers better at healing DPS - therefore they shouldn't have to use vigor as often. The reason healers are discarded in a lot of content is because they aren't as reliable as simply doing it yourself. These changes should help with that.
The only players happy about the new Regeneration are PvPers, mostly solo one, in 4 man dungeons you are going to spam it more than orbs on trials on Live if you want to keep it active on players at all time : 4 GCDs to keep it on everybody including yourself for a 5 GCDs duration, that's way more skills needed, sure.
You wouldn't have to keep it active on all players all the time. It looks potent enough to where you could use it as a reactive spell for when players when they start take damage. Otherwise you could simply keep it on the tank.
But you literally cannot aim regen at a specific player. So. That isn't a thing that can be done, period.
You could never aim regen at a specific player. But it's easy enough to just keep on the tank if he's the only one taking damage - because that is the person it will automatically target. The point of that post was you shouldn't have to spam it all the time. You simply use it when someone starts to take damage.Edited by Jeremy on July 11, 2019 3:48AM0 -
snarkomatic✭✭✭✭[quote=snarkomatic wrote: »snarkomatic wrote: »snarkomatic wrote: »Sanguinor2 wrote: »
So discuss it. Who was standing in your way of discussing it?
People can post comments about how they like the new regeneration without somehow preventing you from discussing AoE healing. So I don't understand what your point is suppose to be.
There is more to this game than simply healing through some AoE phase during some veteran trial. Not every comment about this subject has to revolve around this one specific circumstance and it's extremely unreasonable to expect that it should.
I personally commented on Regeneration because everyone Talking About healing in this thread is Talking About Trials. So I assumed that you too would talk About Trials and thats the reason for the answer you got from me.
It was a general comment meant to apply to all content.
The new regeneration should work well as a tool to heal DPS in any content - including trials, 4 mans, anything that involves a player taking damage and not having to use vigor themselves. It makes healers more dependable - especially in circumstances where people are spread about and taking damage.
But it literally does not, and that is why trial healers are saying you're wrong. A single-target, unreliable-target HoT does not work for us. Most healers don't run it in trials even as the dual-target HoT it is on live. This is not a thing that helps us, and definitely is not a thing that will account for multiple stacks of illustrious.
I appreciate your input, but it doesn't belong here.
I've healed trials and I disagree with you.
The new regeneration looks nice. And just because you disagree with someone - that doesn't mean their input doesn't "belong here". These forums don't belong to you.
You're right, they don't! But .. this thread is pretty focused on VET trials and the loss healers are experiencing in that context. So you can share all the feedback you want for how this helps you and the content you do .. but that doesn't make it at all applicable to the content we do and the HPS we need.
As I told you - I believe the new regeneration will be an asset to healers in any content - including your veteran trials.
Now it may not not make up the difference for your orb spamming during AoE phases. But my post was not about that - nor does everything I post need to be about that.
I won't engage with the strawman that I "spam" orbs. That's been covered to death here in the last 48hrs and you should know better by now.
Main point being, you absolutely cannot run regen in vet trials as a reliable heal even on live, and much less can you do so after the patch that makes it apply to only one (unpredictable, un-target-able) player at a time. This is just silly to argue about. Focus on the numbers.
The "your" in my post was not meant in reference to you in particular. I have no idea how you play nor do I claim to know. It was meant generally as it relates to the debate as to whether or not orb spamming was the only viable way to heal during AoE phases. So that wasn't meant as a strawman. It was me merely point out that's not a topic I was engaging.
And why on earth can't you run regen in a vet trial?
Because you are looking at (6 on live, 12 on PTS) global cooldowns for an underwhelming HPS number that would require most of your resources and most of your GCD time to keep running. You cannot target it, you cannot control it, and it does not always even apply to people missing the buff because ZoS has such a buggy combat system.
It literally just does not work. It is not worthy of the time required to keep it running even as it exists on live, much less after the target number nerf as it is on PTS. It is inefficient on a good day.10 -
snarkomatic✭✭✭✭snarkomatic wrote: »jbjondeaueb17_ESO wrote: »snarkomatic wrote: »snarkomatic wrote: »Sanguinor2 wrote: »
I explained why I brought up regeneration. Because it gives healers an effective and dependable heal to heal other players with so perhaps the DPS won't have to use vigor to heal themselves. They can actually rely on a healer to do it for them.
And not every ___ ____ comment on this forum has to be in the context of 12 man veteran raids. I would imagine far more players do 4 man content on this game than veteran trials anyway. So please stop perpetuating this myth that every comment made on this forum must be about veteran trials. It's getting very tedious.
But 4 man Content doesnt even Need healing in most cases. And in those it does you can make do with the nerfed springs and orbs, you only Need to heal 3 Targets, flashheals like BoL will be fine and in 4 man Regeneration can be useful.
But in 12 man, where springs and orbs healing Output nerfs actually matters Regeneration wont come even close to being a viable alternative. Thats why most People are Talking About vet Trial healing because it actually suffers from the changes.
Yup, this.
Four man healing will indeed be more fun and more versatile now. You're not wrong.
But the issues trial healers are bringing up are not less valid for that fact. We are specifically focused on AoE heals for a reason! That being: we have no viable alternatives on live.
If this does not affect you, awesome! But .. it affects us, so, let us discuss that. Thanks.
So discuss it. Who was standing in your way of discussing it?
People can post comments about how they like the new regeneration without somehow preventing you from discussing AoE heals. So I don't understand what your point is suppose to be.
I've been following this discussion for a few days, and I know people have attacked you. I am not one of those people.
However, you are the one who said "not every ___ ____ comment on this forum has to be in the context of 12 man veteran raids" ... so I was just responding to that remark. You don't understand why we are so focused on that specific context, and I am explaining to you the reason -- that being, that we are hyper-focused on AoE heals because that is the thing we (1) need most to keep 12 people up at the exact same time; and (2) are losing most.
No one has attacked me that I saw. Disagreeing with me is not attacking me.
You can be focused on that one specific context if you want. I don't have any problem with that. What I have a problem with is when you expect everyone else to be as well.
My post in reference to regeneration in this thread had absolutely nothing to do with healing some AoE phase in a veteran trial. It had to with the fact it was going to make healers better at healing DPS - therefore they shouldn't have to use vigor as often. The reason healers are discarded in a lot of content is because they aren't as reliable as simply doing it yourself. These changes should help with that.
The only players happy about the new Regeneration are PvPers, mostly solo one, in 4 man dungeons you are going to spam it more than orbs on trials on Live if you want to keep it active on players at all time : 4 GCDs to keep it on everybody including yourself for a 5 GCDs duration, that's way more skills needed, sure.
You wouldn't have to keep it active on all players all the time. It looks potent enough to where you could use it as a reactive spell for when players when they start take damage. Otherwise you could simply keep it on the tank.
But you literally cannot aim regen at a specific player. So. That isn't a thing that can be done, period.
You could never aim regen at a specific player. But it's easy enough to just keep on the tank if he's the only one taking damage - because that is the person it will automatically target. The point of that post was you shouldn't have to spam it all the time. You simply use it when someone starts to take damage.
But the skill does not reliably behave by those rules, and if you had healed large groups taking heavy damage, you would know that ...5 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭snarkomatic wrote: »[quote=snarkomatic wrote: »snarkomatic wrote: »snarkomatic wrote: »Sanguinor2 wrote: »
So discuss it. Who was standing in your way of discussing it?
People can post comments about how they like the new regeneration without somehow preventing you from discussing AoE healing. So I don't understand what your point is suppose to be.
There is more to this game than simply healing through some AoE phase during some veteran trial. Not every comment about this subject has to revolve around this one specific circumstance and it's extremely unreasonable to expect that it should.
I personally commented on Regeneration because everyone Talking About healing in this thread is Talking About Trials. So I assumed that you too would talk About Trials and thats the reason for the answer you got from me.
It was a general comment meant to apply to all content.
The new regeneration should work well as a tool to heal DPS in any content - including trials, 4 mans, anything that involves a player taking damage and not having to use vigor themselves. It makes healers more dependable - especially in circumstances where people are spread about and taking damage.
But it literally does not, and that is why trial healers are saying you're wrong. A single-target, unreliable-target HoT does not work for us. Most healers don't run it in trials even as the dual-target HoT it is on live. This is not a thing that helps us, and definitely is not a thing that will account for multiple stacks of illustrious.
I appreciate your input, but it doesn't belong here.
I've healed trials and I disagree with you.
The new regeneration looks nice. And just because you disagree with someone - that doesn't mean their input doesn't "belong here". These forums don't belong to you.
You're right, they don't! But .. this thread is pretty focused on VET trials and the loss healers are experiencing in that context. So you can share all the feedback you want for how this helps you and the content you do .. but that doesn't make it at all applicable to the content we do and the HPS we need.
As I told you - I believe the new regeneration will be an asset to healers in any content - including your veteran trials.
Now it may not not make up the difference for your orb spamming during AoE phases. But my post was not about that - nor does everything I post need to be about that.
I won't engage with the strawman that I "spam" orbs. That's been covered to death here in the last 48hrs and you should know better by now.
Main point being, you absolutely cannot run regen in vet trials as a reliable heal even on live, and much less can you do so after the patch that makes it apply to only one (unpredictable, un-target-able) player at a time. This is just silly to argue about. Focus on the numbers.
The "your" in my post was not meant in reference to you in particular. I have no idea how you play nor do I claim to know. It was meant generally as it relates to the debate as to whether or not orb spamming was the only viable way to heal during AoE phases. So that wasn't meant as a strawman. It was me merely point out that's not a topic I was engaging.
And why on earth can't you run regen in a vet trial?
Because you are looking at (6 on live, 12 on PTS) global cooldowns for an underwhelming HPS number that would require most of your resources and most of your GCD time to keep running. You cannot target it, you cannot control it, and it does not always even apply to people missing the buff because ZoS has such a buggy combat system.
It literally just does not work. It is not worthy of the time required to keep it running even as it exists on live, much less after the target number nerf as it is on PTS. It is inefficient on a good day.
It may not work as an effective replacement for orb or healing spring spamming during an AoE phase in a veteran trial - but as a healing tool generally it's an improvement and should help healers heal other players more effectively outside of that one occurrence you keep bringing up.Edited by Jeremy on July 11, 2019 3:56AM0 -
snarkomatic✭✭✭✭snarkomatic wrote: »[quote=snarkomatic wrote: »snarkomatic wrote: »snarkomatic wrote: »Sanguinor2 wrote: »
So discuss it. Who was standing in your way of discussing it?
People can post comments about how they like the new regeneration without somehow preventing you from discussing AoE healing. So I don't understand what your point is suppose to be.
There is more to this game than simply healing through some AoE phase during some veteran trial. Not every comment about this subject has to revolve around this one specific circumstance and it's extremely unreasonable to expect that it should.
I personally commented on Regeneration because everyone Talking About healing in this thread is Talking About Trials. So I assumed that you too would talk About Trials and thats the reason for the answer you got from me.
It was a general comment meant to apply to all content.
The new regeneration should work well as a tool to heal DPS in any content - including trials, 4 mans, anything that involves a player taking damage and not having to use vigor themselves. It makes healers more dependable - especially in circumstances where people are spread about and taking damage.
But it literally does not, and that is why trial healers are saying you're wrong. A single-target, unreliable-target HoT does not work for us. Most healers don't run it in trials even as the dual-target HoT it is on live. This is not a thing that helps us, and definitely is not a thing that will account for multiple stacks of illustrious.
I appreciate your input, but it doesn't belong here.
I've healed trials and I disagree with you.
The new regeneration looks nice. And just because you disagree with someone - that doesn't mean their input doesn't "belong here". These forums don't belong to you.
You're right, they don't! But .. this thread is pretty focused on VET trials and the loss healers are experiencing in that context. So you can share all the feedback you want for how this helps you and the content you do .. but that doesn't make it at all applicable to the content we do and the HPS we need.
As I told you - I believe the new regeneration will be an asset to healers in any content - including your veteran trials.
Now it may not not make up the difference for your orb spamming during AoE phases. But my post was not about that - nor does everything I post need to be about that.
I won't engage with the strawman that I "spam" orbs. That's been covered to death here in the last 48hrs and you should know better by now.
Main point being, you absolutely cannot run regen in vet trials as a reliable heal even on live, and much less can you do so after the patch that makes it apply to only one (unpredictable, un-target-able) player at a time. This is just silly to argue about. Focus on the numbers.
The "your" in my post was not meant in reference to you in particular. I have no idea how you play nor do I claim to know. It was meant generally as it relates to the debate as to whether or not orb spamming was the only viable way to heal during AoE phases. So that wasn't meant as a strawman. It was me merely point out that's not a topic I was engaging.
And why on earth can't you run regen in a vet trial?
Because you are looking at (6 on live, 12 on PTS) global cooldowns for an underwhelming HPS number that would require most of your resources and most of your GCD time to keep running. You cannot target it, you cannot control it, and it does not always even apply to people missing the buff because ZoS has such a buggy combat system.
It literally just does not work. It is not worthy of the time required to keep it running even as it exists on live, much less after the target number nerf as it is on PTS. It is inefficient on a good day.
t may not work as an effective replacement for orb or healing spring spamming during an AoE phase in a veteran trial - but as a healing tool generally it's an improvement and should help healers heal other players more effectively outside of that one occurrence you keep bringing up.
"That one occurrence" ... aka, the heal checks we are all concerned about?
You're right. Outside of those heal checks we are all worried about meeting, healing will be fine. It's like you don't understand what we keep saying in plain English: we cannot meet those heal checks with these numbers. And if you don't understand that, or don't interact with that, then your input is irrelevant to this specific subject.Edited by snarkomatic on July 11, 2019 3:57AM9 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭snarkomatic wrote: »snarkomatic wrote: »jbjondeaueb17_ESO wrote: »snarkomatic wrote: »snarkomatic wrote: »Sanguinor2 wrote: »
I explained why I brought up regeneration. Because it gives healers an effective and dependable heal to heal other players with so perhaps the DPS won't have to use vigor to heal themselves. They can actually rely on a healer to do it for them.
And not every ___ ____ comment on this forum has to be in the context of 12 man veteran raids. I would imagine far more players do 4 man content on this game than veteran trials anyway. So please stop perpetuating this myth that every comment made on this forum must be about veteran trials. It's getting very tedious.
But 4 man Content doesnt even Need healing in most cases. And in those it does you can make do with the nerfed springs and orbs, you only Need to heal 3 Targets, flashheals like BoL will be fine and in 4 man Regeneration can be useful.
But in 12 man, where springs and orbs healing Output nerfs actually matters Regeneration wont come even close to being a viable alternative. Thats why most People are Talking About vet Trial healing because it actually suffers from the changes.
Yup, this.
Four man healing will indeed be more fun and more versatile now. You're not wrong.
But the issues trial healers are bringing up are not less valid for that fact. We are specifically focused on AoE heals for a reason! That being: we have no viable alternatives on live.
If this does not affect you, awesome! But .. it affects us, so, let us discuss that. Thanks.
So discuss it. Who was standing in your way of discussing it?
People can post comments about how they like the new regeneration without somehow preventing you from discussing AoE heals. So I don't understand what your point is suppose to be.
I've been following this discussion for a few days, and I know people have attacked you. I am not one of those people.
However, you are the one who said "not every ___ ____ comment on this forum has to be in the context of 12 man veteran raids" ... so I was just responding to that remark. You don't understand why we are so focused on that specific context, and I am explaining to you the reason -- that being, that we are hyper-focused on AoE heals because that is the thing we (1) need most to keep 12 people up at the exact same time; and (2) are losing most.
No one has attacked me that I saw. Disagreeing with me is not attacking me.
You can be focused on that one specific context if you want. I don't have any problem with that. What I have a problem with is when you expect everyone else to be as well.
My post in reference to regeneration in this thread had absolutely nothing to do with healing some AoE phase in a veteran trial. It had to with the fact it was going to make healers better at healing DPS - therefore they shouldn't have to use vigor as often. The reason healers are discarded in a lot of content is because they aren't as reliable as simply doing it yourself. These changes should help with that.
The only players happy about the new Regeneration are PvPers, mostly solo one, in 4 man dungeons you are going to spam it more than orbs on trials on Live if you want to keep it active on players at all time : 4 GCDs to keep it on everybody including yourself for a 5 GCDs duration, that's way more skills needed, sure.
You wouldn't have to keep it active on all players all the time. It looks potent enough to where you could use it as a reactive spell for when players when they start take damage. Otherwise you could simply keep it on the tank.
But you literally cannot aim regen at a specific player. So. That isn't a thing that can be done, period.
You could never aim regen at a specific player. But it's easy enough to just keep on the tank if he's the only one taking damage - because that is the person it will automatically target. The point of that post was you shouldn't have to spam it all the time. You simply use it when someone starts to take damage.
But the skill does not reliably behave by those rules, and if you had healed large groups taking heavy damage, you would know that ...
Have you used it yet?
Edited by Jeremy on July 11, 2019 3:58AM0 -
snarkomatic✭✭✭✭snarkomatic wrote: »snarkomatic wrote: »jbjondeaueb17_ESO wrote: »snarkomatic wrote: »snarkomatic wrote: »Sanguinor2 wrote: »
I explained why I brought up regeneration. Because it gives healers an effective and dependable heal to heal other players with so perhaps the DPS won't have to use vigor to heal themselves. They can actually rely on a healer to do it for them.
And not every ___ ____ comment on this forum has to be in the context of 12 man veteran raids. I would imagine far more players do 4 man content on this game than veteran trials anyway. So please stop perpetuating this myth that every comment made on this forum must be about veteran trials. It's getting very tedious.
But 4 man Content doesnt even Need healing in most cases. And in those it does you can make do with the nerfed springs and orbs, you only Need to heal 3 Targets, flashheals like BoL will be fine and in 4 man Regeneration can be useful.
But in 12 man, where springs and orbs healing Output nerfs actually matters Regeneration wont come even close to being a viable alternative. Thats why most People are Talking About vet Trial healing because it actually suffers from the changes.
Yup, this.
Four man healing will indeed be more fun and more versatile now. You're not wrong.
But the issues trial healers are bringing up are not less valid for that fact. We are specifically focused on AoE heals for a reason! That being: we have no viable alternatives on live.
If this does not affect you, awesome! But .. it affects us, so, let us discuss that. Thanks.
So discuss it. Who was standing in your way of discussing it?
People can post comments about how they like the new regeneration without somehow preventing you from discussing AoE heals. So I don't understand what your point is suppose to be.
I've been following this discussion for a few days, and I know people have attacked you. I am not one of those people.
However, you are the one who said "not every ___ ____ comment on this forum has to be in the context of 12 man veteran raids" ... so I was just responding to that remark. You don't understand why we are so focused on that specific context, and I am explaining to you the reason -- that being, that we are hyper-focused on AoE heals because that is the thing we (1) need most to keep 12 people up at the exact same time; and (2) are losing most.
No one has attacked me that I saw. Disagreeing with me is not attacking me.
You can be focused on that one specific context if you want. I don't have any problem with that. What I have a problem with is when you expect everyone else to be as well.
My post in reference to regeneration in this thread had absolutely nothing to do with healing some AoE phase in a veteran trial. It had to with the fact it was going to make healers better at healing DPS - therefore they shouldn't have to use vigor as often. The reason healers are discarded in a lot of content is because they aren't as reliable as simply doing it yourself. These changes should help with that.
The only players happy about the new Regeneration are PvPers, mostly solo one, in 4 man dungeons you are going to spam it more than orbs on trials on Live if you want to keep it active on players at all time : 4 GCDs to keep it on everybody including yourself for a 5 GCDs duration, that's way more skills needed, sure.
You wouldn't have to keep it active on all players all the time. It looks potent enough to where you could use it as a reactive spell for when players when they start take damage. Otherwise you could simply keep it on the tank.
But you literally cannot aim regen at a specific player. So. That isn't a thing that can be done, period.
You could never aim regen at a specific player. But it's easy enough to just keep on the tank if he's the only one taking damage - because that is the person it will automatically target. The point of that post was you shouldn't have to spam it all the time. You simply use it when someone starts to take damage.
But the skill does not reliably behave by those rules, and if you had healed large groups taking heavy damage, you would know that ...
Have you used it yet?
Have I used a bread and butter resto staff ability? Yeah lol .. yeah I have.3 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭snarkomatic wrote: »snarkomatic wrote: »[quote=snarkomatic wrote: »snarkomatic wrote: »snarkomatic wrote: »Sanguinor2 wrote: »
So discuss it. Who was standing in your way of discussing it?
People can post comments about how they like the new regeneration without somehow preventing you from discussing AoE healing. So I don't understand what your point is suppose to be.
There is more to this game than simply healing through some AoE phase during some veteran trial. Not every comment about this subject has to revolve around this one specific circumstance and it's extremely unreasonable to expect that it should.
I personally commented on Regeneration because everyone Talking About healing in this thread is Talking About Trials. So I assumed that you too would talk About Trials and thats the reason for the answer you got from me.
It was a general comment meant to apply to all content.
The new regeneration should work well as a tool to heal DPS in any content - including trials, 4 mans, anything that involves a player taking damage and not having to use vigor themselves. It makes healers more dependable - especially in circumstances where people are spread about and taking damage.
But it literally does not, and that is why trial healers are saying you're wrong. A single-target, unreliable-target HoT does not work for us. Most healers don't run it in trials even as the dual-target HoT it is on live. This is not a thing that helps us, and definitely is not a thing that will account for multiple stacks of illustrious.
I appreciate your input, but it doesn't belong here.
I've healed trials and I disagree with you.
The new regeneration looks nice. And just because you disagree with someone - that doesn't mean their input doesn't "belong here". These forums don't belong to you.
You're right, they don't! But .. this thread is pretty focused on VET trials and the loss healers are experiencing in that context. So you can share all the feedback you want for how this helps you and the content you do .. but that doesn't make it at all applicable to the content we do and the HPS we need.
As I told you - I believe the new regeneration will be an asset to healers in any content - including your veteran trials.
Now it may not not make up the difference for your orb spamming during AoE phases. But my post was not about that - nor does everything I post need to be about that.
I won't engage with the strawman that I "spam" orbs. That's been covered to death here in the last 48hrs and you should know better by now.
Main point being, you absolutely cannot run regen in vet trials as a reliable heal even on live, and much less can you do so after the patch that makes it apply to only one (unpredictable, un-target-able) player at a time. This is just silly to argue about. Focus on the numbers.
The "your" in my post was not meant in reference to you in particular. I have no idea how you play nor do I claim to know. It was meant generally as it relates to the debate as to whether or not orb spamming was the only viable way to heal during AoE phases. So that wasn't meant as a strawman. It was me merely point out that's not a topic I was engaging.
And why on earth can't you run regen in a vet trial?
Because you are looking at (6 on live, 12 on PTS) global cooldowns for an underwhelming HPS number that would require most of your resources and most of your GCD time to keep running. You cannot target it, you cannot control it, and it does not always even apply to people missing the buff because ZoS has such a buggy combat system.
It literally just does not work. It is not worthy of the time required to keep it running even as it exists on live, much less after the target number nerf as it is on PTS. It is inefficient on a good day.
t may not work as an effective replacement for orb or healing spring spamming during an AoE phase in a veteran trial - but as a healing tool generally it's an improvement and should help healers heal other players more effectively outside of that one occurrence you keep bringing up.
"That one occurrence" ... aka, the heal checks we are all concerned about?
You're right. Outside of those heal checks we are all worried about meeting, healing will be fine. It's like you don't understand what we keep saying in plain English: we cannot meet those heal checks with these numbers. And if you don't understand that, or don't interact with that, then your input is irrelevant to this specific subject.
No - it's like you don't understand not everyone else is only concerned with what you are.
I've told you at least 3 times now that one specific circumstance is not what I'm talking about. And if you don't like what I"m talking about - simply ignore my posts. Demanding that I only talk about what you want to talk about otherwise I should get off the forum is ridiculous.0 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭snarkomatic wrote: »snarkomatic wrote: »snarkomatic wrote: »jbjondeaueb17_ESO wrote: »snarkomatic wrote: »snarkomatic wrote: »Sanguinor2 wrote: »
I explained why I brought up regeneration. Because it gives healers an effective and dependable heal to heal other players with so perhaps the DPS won't have to use vigor to heal themselves. They can actually rely on a healer to do it for them.
And not every ___ ____ comment on this forum has to be in the context of 12 man veteran raids. I would imagine far more players do 4 man content on this game than veteran trials anyway. So please stop perpetuating this myth that every comment made on this forum must be about veteran trials. It's getting very tedious.
But 4 man Content doesnt even Need healing in most cases. And in those it does you can make do with the nerfed springs and orbs, you only Need to heal 3 Targets, flashheals like BoL will be fine and in 4 man Regeneration can be useful.
But in 12 man, where springs and orbs healing Output nerfs actually matters Regeneration wont come even close to being a viable alternative. Thats why most People are Talking About vet Trial healing because it actually suffers from the changes.
Yup, this.
Four man healing will indeed be more fun and more versatile now. You're not wrong.
But the issues trial healers are bringing up are not less valid for that fact. We are specifically focused on AoE heals for a reason! That being: we have no viable alternatives on live.
If this does not affect you, awesome! But .. it affects us, so, let us discuss that. Thanks.
So discuss it. Who was standing in your way of discussing it?
People can post comments about how they like the new regeneration without somehow preventing you from discussing AoE heals. So I don't understand what your point is suppose to be.
I've been following this discussion for a few days, and I know people have attacked you. I am not one of those people.
However, you are the one who said "not every ___ ____ comment on this forum has to be in the context of 12 man veteran raids" ... so I was just responding to that remark. You don't understand why we are so focused on that specific context, and I am explaining to you the reason -- that being, that we are hyper-focused on AoE heals because that is the thing we (1) need most to keep 12 people up at the exact same time; and (2) are losing most.
No one has attacked me that I saw. Disagreeing with me is not attacking me.
You can be focused on that one specific context if you want. I don't have any problem with that. What I have a problem with is when you expect everyone else to be as well.
My post in reference to regeneration in this thread had absolutely nothing to do with healing some AoE phase in a veteran trial. It had to with the fact it was going to make healers better at healing DPS - therefore they shouldn't have to use vigor as often. The reason healers are discarded in a lot of content is because they aren't as reliable as simply doing it yourself. These changes should help with that.
The only players happy about the new Regeneration are PvPers, mostly solo one, in 4 man dungeons you are going to spam it more than orbs on trials on Live if you want to keep it active on players at all time : 4 GCDs to keep it on everybody including yourself for a 5 GCDs duration, that's way more skills needed, sure.
You wouldn't have to keep it active on all players all the time. It looks potent enough to where you could use it as a reactive spell for when players when they start take damage. Otherwise you could simply keep it on the tank.
But you literally cannot aim regen at a specific player. So. That isn't a thing that can be done, period.
You could never aim regen at a specific player. But it's easy enough to just keep on the tank if he's the only one taking damage - because that is the person it will automatically target. The point of that post was you shouldn't have to spam it all the time. You simply use it when someone starts to take damage.
But the skill does not reliably behave by those rules, and if you had healed large groups taking heavy damage, you would know that ...
Have you used it yet?
Have I used a bread and butter resto staff ability? Yeah lol .. yeah I have.
So does it not target the person who is taking damage when you use it? It just randomly chooses a player?0 -
snarkomatic✭✭✭✭snarkomatic wrote: »snarkomatic wrote: »[quote=snarkomatic wrote: »snarkomatic wrote: »snarkomatic wrote: »Sanguinor2 wrote: »
So discuss it. Who was standing in your way of discussing it?
People can post comments about how they like the new regeneration without somehow preventing you from discussing AoE healing. So I don't understand what your point is suppose to be.
There is more to this game than simply healing through some AoE phase during some veteran trial. Not every comment about this subject has to revolve around this one specific circumstance and it's extremely unreasonable to expect that it should.
I personally commented on Regeneration because everyone Talking About healing in this thread is Talking About Trials. So I assumed that you too would talk About Trials and thats the reason for the answer you got from me.
It was a general comment meant to apply to all content.
The new regeneration should work well as a tool to heal DPS in any content - including trials, 4 mans, anything that involves a player taking damage and not having to use vigor themselves. It makes healers more dependable - especially in circumstances where people are spread about and taking damage.
But it literally does not, and that is why trial healers are saying you're wrong. A single-target, unreliable-target HoT does not work for us. Most healers don't run it in trials even as the dual-target HoT it is on live. This is not a thing that helps us, and definitely is not a thing that will account for multiple stacks of illustrious.
I appreciate your input, but it doesn't belong here.
I've healed trials and I disagree with you.
The new regeneration looks nice. And just because you disagree with someone - that doesn't mean their input doesn't "belong here". These forums don't belong to you.
You're right, they don't! But .. this thread is pretty focused on VET trials and the loss healers are experiencing in that context. So you can share all the feedback you want for how this helps you and the content you do .. but that doesn't make it at all applicable to the content we do and the HPS we need.
As I told you - I believe the new regeneration will be an asset to healers in any content - including your veteran trials.
Now it may not not make up the difference for your orb spamming during AoE phases. But my post was not about that - nor does everything I post need to be about that.
I won't engage with the strawman that I "spam" orbs. That's been covered to death here in the last 48hrs and you should know better by now.
Main point being, you absolutely cannot run regen in vet trials as a reliable heal even on live, and much less can you do so after the patch that makes it apply to only one (unpredictable, un-target-able) player at a time. This is just silly to argue about. Focus on the numbers.
The "your" in my post was not meant in reference to you in particular. I have no idea how you play nor do I claim to know. It was meant generally as it relates to the debate as to whether or not orb spamming was the only viable way to heal during AoE phases. So that wasn't meant as a strawman. It was me merely point out that's not a topic I was engaging.
And why on earth can't you run regen in a vet trial?
Because you are looking at (6 on live, 12 on PTS) global cooldowns for an underwhelming HPS number that would require most of your resources and most of your GCD time to keep running. You cannot target it, you cannot control it, and it does not always even apply to people missing the buff because ZoS has such a buggy combat system.
It literally just does not work. It is not worthy of the time required to keep it running even as it exists on live, much less after the target number nerf as it is on PTS. It is inefficient on a good day.
t may not work as an effective replacement for orb or healing spring spamming during an AoE phase in a veteran trial - but as a healing tool generally it's an improvement and should help healers heal other players more effectively outside of that one occurrence you keep bringing up.
"That one occurrence" ... aka, the heal checks we are all concerned about?
You're right. Outside of those heal checks we are all worried about meeting, healing will be fine. It's like you don't understand what we keep saying in plain English: we cannot meet those heal checks with these numbers. And if you don't understand that, or don't interact with that, then your input is irrelevant to this specific subject.
No - it's like you don't understand not everyone else is only concerned with what you are.
I've told you at least 3 times now that one specific circumstance is not what I'm talking about. And if you don't like what I"m talking about - simply ignore my posts. Demanding that I only talk about what you want to talk about otherwise I should get off the forum is ridiculous.
I never, ever said you should get off the forum. Please take a breath.
I said your input is irrelevant to this one specific circumstance if you are not interested in meeting the heal checks we are all concerned about meeting. It's quoted right there above what you said in response. Idk what else to tell ya, bud.9 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭snarkomatic wrote: »snarkomatic wrote: »snarkomatic wrote: »[quote=snarkomatic wrote: »snarkomatic wrote: »snarkomatic wrote: »Sanguinor2 wrote: »
So discuss it. Who was standing in your way of discussing it?
People can post comments about how they like the new regeneration without somehow preventing you from discussing AoE healing. So I don't understand what your point is suppose to be.
There is more to this game than simply healing through some AoE phase during some veteran trial. Not every comment about this subject has to revolve around this one specific circumstance and it's extremely unreasonable to expect that it should.
I personally commented on Regeneration because everyone Talking About healing in this thread is Talking About Trials. So I assumed that you too would talk About Trials and thats the reason for the answer you got from me.
It was a general comment meant to apply to all content.
The new regeneration should work well as a tool to heal DPS in any content - including trials, 4 mans, anything that involves a player taking damage and not having to use vigor themselves. It makes healers more dependable - especially in circumstances where people are spread about and taking damage.
But it literally does not, and that is why trial healers are saying you're wrong. A single-target, unreliable-target HoT does not work for us. Most healers don't run it in trials even as the dual-target HoT it is on live. This is not a thing that helps us, and definitely is not a thing that will account for multiple stacks of illustrious.
I appreciate your input, but it doesn't belong here.
I've healed trials and I disagree with you.
The new regeneration looks nice. And just because you disagree with someone - that doesn't mean their input doesn't "belong here". These forums don't belong to you.
You're right, they don't! But .. this thread is pretty focused on VET trials and the loss healers are experiencing in that context. So you can share all the feedback you want for how this helps you and the content you do .. but that doesn't make it at all applicable to the content we do and the HPS we need.
As I told you - I believe the new regeneration will be an asset to healers in any content - including your veteran trials.
Now it may not not make up the difference for your orb spamming during AoE phases. But my post was not about that - nor does everything I post need to be about that.
I won't engage with the strawman that I "spam" orbs. That's been covered to death here in the last 48hrs and you should know better by now.
Main point being, you absolutely cannot run regen in vet trials as a reliable heal even on live, and much less can you do so after the patch that makes it apply to only one (unpredictable, un-target-able) player at a time. This is just silly to argue about. Focus on the numbers.
The "your" in my post was not meant in reference to you in particular. I have no idea how you play nor do I claim to know. It was meant generally as it relates to the debate as to whether or not orb spamming was the only viable way to heal during AoE phases. So that wasn't meant as a strawman. It was me merely point out that's not a topic I was engaging.
And why on earth can't you run regen in a vet trial?
Because you are looking at (6 on live, 12 on PTS) global cooldowns for an underwhelming HPS number that would require most of your resources and most of your GCD time to keep running. You cannot target it, you cannot control it, and it does not always even apply to people missing the buff because ZoS has such a buggy combat system.
It literally just does not work. It is not worthy of the time required to keep it running even as it exists on live, much less after the target number nerf as it is on PTS. It is inefficient on a good day.
t may not work as an effective replacement for orb or healing spring spamming during an AoE phase in a veteran trial - but as a healing tool generally it's an improvement and should help healers heal other players more effectively outside of that one occurrence you keep bringing up.
"That one occurrence" ... aka, the heal checks we are all concerned about?
You're right. Outside of those heal checks we are all worried about meeting, healing will be fine. It's like you don't understand what we keep saying in plain English: we cannot meet those heal checks with these numbers. And if you don't understand that, or don't interact with that, then your input is irrelevant to this specific subject.
No - it's like you don't understand not everyone else is only concerned with what you are.
I've told you at least 3 times now that one specific circumstance is not what I'm talking about. And if you don't like what I"m talking about - simply ignore my posts. Demanding that I only talk about what you want to talk about otherwise I should get off the forum is ridiculous.
I never, ever said you should get off the forum. Please take a breath.
I said your input is irrelevant to this one specific circumstance if you are not interested in meeting the heal checks we are all concerned about meeting. It's quoted right there above what you said in response. Idk what else to tell ya, bud.
You certainly gave that impression by saying I shouldn't be giving my "input" And I"m perfectly relaxed. I don't need to take a breath. Not sure why you think I'm angry or excited. I'm neither, trust me.
But you don't speak for everyone else. You keep talking as if you speak for "all" when I imagine it's only a tiny minority of people who play this game who even do veteran trials. So this idea unless you are talking about AoE phases during a veteran trial your input is irrelevant is silly.
I also don't know what else to tell you either - other than to suggest you simply ignore my comments if they're not talking about something you want to be talking about.Edited by Jeremy on July 11, 2019 4:07AM0 -
snarkomatic✭✭✭✭snarkomatic wrote: »snarkomatic wrote: »snarkomatic wrote: »jbjondeaueb17_ESO wrote: »snarkomatic wrote: »snarkomatic wrote: »Sanguinor2 wrote: »
I explained why I brought up regeneration. Because it gives healers an effective and dependable heal to heal other players with so perhaps the DPS won't have to use vigor to heal themselves. They can actually rely on a healer to do it for them.
And not every ___ ____ comment on this forum has to be in the context of 12 man veteran raids. I would imagine far more players do 4 man content on this game than veteran trials anyway. So please stop perpetuating this myth that every comment made on this forum must be about veteran trials. It's getting very tedious.
But 4 man Content doesnt even Need healing in most cases. And in those it does you can make do with the nerfed springs and orbs, you only Need to heal 3 Targets, flashheals like BoL will be fine and in 4 man Regeneration can be useful.
But in 12 man, where springs and orbs healing Output nerfs actually matters Regeneration wont come even close to being a viable alternative. Thats why most People are Talking About vet Trial healing because it actually suffers from the changes.
Yup, this.
Four man healing will indeed be more fun and more versatile now. You're not wrong.
But the issues trial healers are bringing up are not less valid for that fact. We are specifically focused on AoE heals for a reason! That being: we have no viable alternatives on live.
If this does not affect you, awesome! But .. it affects us, so, let us discuss that. Thanks.
So discuss it. Who was standing in your way of discussing it?
People can post comments about how they like the new regeneration without somehow preventing you from discussing AoE heals. So I don't understand what your point is suppose to be.
I've been following this discussion for a few days, and I know people have attacked you. I am not one of those people.
However, you are the one who said "not every ___ ____ comment on this forum has to be in the context of 12 man veteran raids" ... so I was just responding to that remark. You don't understand why we are so focused on that specific context, and I am explaining to you the reason -- that being, that we are hyper-focused on AoE heals because that is the thing we (1) need most to keep 12 people up at the exact same time; and (2) are losing most.
No one has attacked me that I saw. Disagreeing with me is not attacking me.
You can be focused on that one specific context if you want. I don't have any problem with that. What I have a problem with is when you expect everyone else to be as well.
My post in reference to regeneration in this thread had absolutely nothing to do with healing some AoE phase in a veteran trial. It had to with the fact it was going to make healers better at healing DPS - therefore they shouldn't have to use vigor as often. The reason healers are discarded in a lot of content is because they aren't as reliable as simply doing it yourself. These changes should help with that.
The only players happy about the new Regeneration are PvPers, mostly solo one, in 4 man dungeons you are going to spam it more than orbs on trials on Live if you want to keep it active on players at all time : 4 GCDs to keep it on everybody including yourself for a 5 GCDs duration, that's way more skills needed, sure.
You wouldn't have to keep it active on all players all the time. It looks potent enough to where you could use it as a reactive spell for when players when they start take damage. Otherwise you could simply keep it on the tank.
But you literally cannot aim regen at a specific player. So. That isn't a thing that can be done, period.
You could never aim regen at a specific player. But it's easy enough to just keep on the tank if he's the only one taking damage - because that is the person it will automatically target. The point of that post was you shouldn't have to spam it all the time. You simply use it when someone starts to take damage.
But the skill does not reliably behave by those rules, and if you had healed large groups taking heavy damage, you would know that ...
Have you used it yet?
Have I used a bread and butter resto staff ability? Yeah lol .. yeah I have.
So does it not target the person who is taking damage when you use it? It just randomly chooses a player?
It is unpredictable and does not always follow that rule, yes. As many, many, many other healers have confirmed in the last 48hrs. It sometimes applies itself repeatedly to someone who (1) already has the buff and (2) is not losing any health. It's buggy. We cannot count on it, especially in trials where 1sec is the difference between a wipe and a clear.5 -
snarkomatic✭✭✭✭snarkomatic wrote: »snarkomatic wrote: »snarkomatic wrote: »[quote=snarkomatic wrote: »snarkomatic wrote: »snarkomatic wrote: »Sanguinor2 wrote: »
So discuss it. Who was standing in your way of discussing it?
People can post comments about how they like the new regeneration without somehow preventing you from discussing AoE healing. So I don't understand what your point is suppose to be.
There is more to this game than simply healing through some AoE phase during some veteran trial. Not every comment about this subject has to revolve around this one specific circumstance and it's extremely unreasonable to expect that it should.
I personally commented on Regeneration because everyone Talking About healing in this thread is Talking About Trials. So I assumed that you too would talk About Trials and thats the reason for the answer you got from me.
It was a general comment meant to apply to all content.
The new regeneration should work well as a tool to heal DPS in any content - including trials, 4 mans, anything that involves a player taking damage and not having to use vigor themselves. It makes healers more dependable - especially in circumstances where people are spread about and taking damage.
But it literally does not, and that is why trial healers are saying you're wrong. A single-target, unreliable-target HoT does not work for us. Most healers don't run it in trials even as the dual-target HoT it is on live. This is not a thing that helps us, and definitely is not a thing that will account for multiple stacks of illustrious.
I appreciate your input, but it doesn't belong here.
I've healed trials and I disagree with you.
The new regeneration looks nice. And just because you disagree with someone - that doesn't mean their input doesn't "belong here". These forums don't belong to you.
You're right, they don't! But .. this thread is pretty focused on VET trials and the loss healers are experiencing in that context. So you can share all the feedback you want for how this helps you and the content you do .. but that doesn't make it at all applicable to the content we do and the HPS we need.
As I told you - I believe the new regeneration will be an asset to healers in any content - including your veteran trials.
Now it may not not make up the difference for your orb spamming during AoE phases. But my post was not about that - nor does everything I post need to be about that.
I won't engage with the strawman that I "spam" orbs. That's been covered to death here in the last 48hrs and you should know better by now.
Main point being, you absolutely cannot run regen in vet trials as a reliable heal even on live, and much less can you do so after the patch that makes it apply to only one (unpredictable, un-target-able) player at a time. This is just silly to argue about. Focus on the numbers.
The "your" in my post was not meant in reference to you in particular. I have no idea how you play nor do I claim to know. It was meant generally as it relates to the debate as to whether or not orb spamming was the only viable way to heal during AoE phases. So that wasn't meant as a strawman. It was me merely point out that's not a topic I was engaging.
And why on earth can't you run regen in a vet trial?
Because you are looking at (6 on live, 12 on PTS) global cooldowns for an underwhelming HPS number that would require most of your resources and most of your GCD time to keep running. You cannot target it, you cannot control it, and it does not always even apply to people missing the buff because ZoS has such a buggy combat system.
It literally just does not work. It is not worthy of the time required to keep it running even as it exists on live, much less after the target number nerf as it is on PTS. It is inefficient on a good day.
t may not work as an effective replacement for orb or healing spring spamming during an AoE phase in a veteran trial - but as a healing tool generally it's an improvement and should help healers heal other players more effectively outside of that one occurrence you keep bringing up.
"That one occurrence" ... aka, the heal checks we are all concerned about?
You're right. Outside of those heal checks we are all worried about meeting, healing will be fine. It's like you don't understand what we keep saying in plain English: we cannot meet those heal checks with these numbers. And if you don't understand that, or don't interact with that, then your input is irrelevant to this specific subject.
No - it's like you don't understand not everyone else is only concerned with what you are.
I've told you at least 3 times now that one specific circumstance is not what I'm talking about. And if you don't like what I"m talking about - simply ignore my posts. Demanding that I only talk about what you want to talk about otherwise I should get off the forum is ridiculous.
I never, ever said you should get off the forum. Please take a breath.
I said your input is irrelevant to this one specific circumstance if you are not interested in meeting the heal checks we are all concerned about meeting. It's quoted right there above what you said in response. Idk what else to tell ya, bud.
You certainly gave that impression by saying I shouldn't be giving my "input" And I"m perfectly relaxed. I don't need to take a breath. Not sure why you think I'm angry or excited. I'm neither, trust me.
But you don't speak for everyone else. You keep talking as if you speak for "all" when I imagine it's only a tiny minority of people who play this game who even do veteran trials. So this idea unless you are talking about AoE phases during a veteran trial your input is irrelevant is silly.
I also don't know what else to tell you either - other than to suggest you simply ignore my comments if they're not talking about something you want to be talking about.
Okay. Have a nice night, then.
For perspective tho, the reason why people are telling you "don't comment if it doesn't affect you" is ... because you keep telling us it doesn't affect you lol.Edited by snarkomatic on July 11, 2019 4:11AM7 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭snarkomatic wrote: »snarkomatic wrote: »snarkomatic wrote: »snarkomatic wrote: »jbjondeaueb17_ESO wrote: »snarkomatic wrote: »snarkomatic wrote: »Sanguinor2 wrote: »
I explained why I brought up regeneration. Because it gives healers an effective and dependable heal to heal other players with so perhaps the DPS won't have to use vigor to heal themselves. They can actually rely on a healer to do it for them.
And not every ___ ____ comment on this forum has to be in the context of 12 man veteran raids. I would imagine far more players do 4 man content on this game than veteran trials anyway. So please stop perpetuating this myth that every comment made on this forum must be about veteran trials. It's getting very tedious.
But 4 man Content doesnt even Need healing in most cases. And in those it does you can make do with the nerfed springs and orbs, you only Need to heal 3 Targets, flashheals like BoL will be fine and in 4 man Regeneration can be useful.
But in 12 man, where springs and orbs healing Output nerfs actually matters Regeneration wont come even close to being a viable alternative. Thats why most People are Talking About vet Trial healing because it actually suffers from the changes.
Yup, this.
Four man healing will indeed be more fun and more versatile now. You're not wrong.
But the issues trial healers are bringing up are not less valid for that fact. We are specifically focused on AoE heals for a reason! That being: we have no viable alternatives on live.
If this does not affect you, awesome! But .. it affects us, so, let us discuss that. Thanks.
So discuss it. Who was standing in your way of discussing it?
People can post comments about how they like the new regeneration without somehow preventing you from discussing AoE heals. So I don't understand what your point is suppose to be.
I've been following this discussion for a few days, and I know people have attacked you. I am not one of those people.
However, you are the one who said "not every ___ ____ comment on this forum has to be in the context of 12 man veteran raids" ... so I was just responding to that remark. You don't understand why we are so focused on that specific context, and I am explaining to you the reason -- that being, that we are hyper-focused on AoE heals because that is the thing we (1) need most to keep 12 people up at the exact same time; and (2) are losing most.
No one has attacked me that I saw. Disagreeing with me is not attacking me.
You can be focused on that one specific context if you want. I don't have any problem with that. What I have a problem with is when you expect everyone else to be as well.
My post in reference to regeneration in this thread had absolutely nothing to do with healing some AoE phase in a veteran trial. It had to with the fact it was going to make healers better at healing DPS - therefore they shouldn't have to use vigor as often. The reason healers are discarded in a lot of content is because they aren't as reliable as simply doing it yourself. These changes should help with that.
The only players happy about the new Regeneration are PvPers, mostly solo one, in 4 man dungeons you are going to spam it more than orbs on trials on Live if you want to keep it active on players at all time : 4 GCDs to keep it on everybody including yourself for a 5 GCDs duration, that's way more skills needed, sure.
You wouldn't have to keep it active on all players all the time. It looks potent enough to where you could use it as a reactive spell for when players when they start take damage. Otherwise you could simply keep it on the tank.
But you literally cannot aim regen at a specific player. So. That isn't a thing that can be done, period.
You could never aim regen at a specific player. But it's easy enough to just keep on the tank if he's the only one taking damage - because that is the person it will automatically target. The point of that post was you shouldn't have to spam it all the time. You simply use it when someone starts to take damage.
But the skill does not reliably behave by those rules, and if you had healed large groups taking heavy damage, you would know that ...
Have you used it yet?
Have I used a bread and butter resto staff ability? Yeah lol .. yeah I have.
So does it not target the person who is taking damage when you use it? It just randomly chooses a player?
It is unpredictable and does not always follow that rule, yes. As many, many, many other healers have confirmed in the last 48hrs. It sometimes applies itself repeatedly to someone who (1) already has the buff and (2) is not losing any health. It's buggy. We cannot count on it, especially in trials where 1sec is the difference between a wipe and a clear.
Well if it just randomly targets players maybe you would have to spam it to use it effectively. Hopefully they will fix that bug before it goes live.
0 -
CipherNine✭✭✭✭✭wow do you guys realize you are arguing with someone that thinks healers just spammed Orbs.
The guy is spewing his nonsense in every thread about healing. Its the same baseless arguments from him over and over.
Its pointless to argue with someone about this that doesn't know how healing works at endgame. He has already shown his ignorance and then tries to say he has healed trials. yeah sure he has.
There is others here as well trying to use this bs of "healers just spammed 2 skills". Go ahead and keep that up its just showing us who has no idea what they are talking about.
Anyone that has healed trials doesn't say stupid things like healers just spammed orbs and that regeneration is good to use.
PC-NA
Khajiit Templar - Healer
Argonian Necromancer - Healer
Breton Warden - Healer
Nord Necromancer - Tank
Argonian Templar - Tank
Nord Warden - Tank13 -
snarkomatic✭✭✭✭CipherNine wrote: »wow do you guys realize you are arguing with someone that thinks healers just spammed Orbs.
The guy is spewing his nonsense in every thread about healing. Its the same baseless arguments from him over and over.
Its pointless to argue with someone about this that doesn't know how healing works at endgame. He has already shown his ignorance and then tries to say he has healed trials. yeah sure he has.
There is others here as well trying to use this bs of "healers just spammed 2 skills". Go ahead and keep that up its just showing us who has no idea what they are talking about.
Anyone that has healed trials doesn't say stupid things like healers just spammed orbs and that regeneration is good to use.
Ya, I'm done. I thought I could interject with a reasonable middle-man kind of opinion ... I should have known better lmao.7 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭CipherNine wrote: »wow do you guys realize you are arguing with someone that thinks healers just spammed Orbs.
The guy is spewing his nonsense in every thread about healing. Its the same baseless arguments from him over and over.
Its pointless to argue with someone about this that doesn't know how healing works at endgame. He has already shown his ignorance and then tries to say he has healed trials. yeah sure he has.
There is others here as well trying to use this bs of "healers just spammed 2 skills". Go ahead and keep that up its just showing us who has no idea what they are talking about.
Anyone that has healed trials doesn't say stupid things like healers just spammed orbs and that regeneration is good to use.
I never said healers just spammed orbs. I do know some people asked for healers to spam orbs - which is the main reason I support these changes. To end that nonsense.
And yes - I have healed trials. And yes - I did use regeneration when I did. If you want to see a pointless post - all i can say is take a look at your own. If you don't want to argue with me - then don't start arguments with me.Edited by Jeremy on July 11, 2019 4:20AM1 -
snarkomatic✭✭✭✭snarkomatic wrote: »snarkomatic wrote: »snarkomatic wrote: »snarkomatic wrote: »jbjondeaueb17_ESO wrote: »snarkomatic wrote: »snarkomatic wrote: »Sanguinor2 wrote: »
I explained why I brought up regeneration. Because it gives healers an effective and dependable heal to heal other players with so perhaps the DPS won't have to use vigor to heal themselves. They can actually rely on a healer to do it for them.
And not every ___ ____ comment on this forum has to be in the context of 12 man veteran raids. I would imagine far more players do 4 man content on this game than veteran trials anyway. So please stop perpetuating this myth that every comment made on this forum must be about veteran trials. It's getting very tedious.
But 4 man Content doesnt even Need healing in most cases. And in those it does you can make do with the nerfed springs and orbs, you only Need to heal 3 Targets, flashheals like BoL will be fine and in 4 man Regeneration can be useful.
But in 12 man, where springs and orbs healing Output nerfs actually matters Regeneration wont come even close to being a viable alternative. Thats why most People are Talking About vet Trial healing because it actually suffers from the changes.
Yup, this.
Four man healing will indeed be more fun and more versatile now. You're not wrong.
But the issues trial healers are bringing up are not less valid for that fact. We are specifically focused on AoE heals for a reason! That being: we have no viable alternatives on live.
If this does not affect you, awesome! But .. it affects us, so, let us discuss that. Thanks.
So discuss it. Who was standing in your way of discussing it?
People can post comments about how they like the new regeneration without somehow preventing you from discussing AoE heals. So I don't understand what your point is suppose to be.
I've been following this discussion for a few days, and I know people have attacked you. I am not one of those people.
However, you are the one who said "not every ___ ____ comment on this forum has to be in the context of 12 man veteran raids" ... so I was just responding to that remark. You don't understand why we are so focused on that specific context, and I am explaining to you the reason -- that being, that we are hyper-focused on AoE heals because that is the thing we (1) need most to keep 12 people up at the exact same time; and (2) are losing most.
No one has attacked me that I saw. Disagreeing with me is not attacking me.
You can be focused on that one specific context if you want. I don't have any problem with that. What I have a problem with is when you expect everyone else to be as well.
My post in reference to regeneration in this thread had absolutely nothing to do with healing some AoE phase in a veteran trial. It had to with the fact it was going to make healers better at healing DPS - therefore they shouldn't have to use vigor as often. The reason healers are discarded in a lot of content is because they aren't as reliable as simply doing it yourself. These changes should help with that.
The only players happy about the new Regeneration are PvPers, mostly solo one, in 4 man dungeons you are going to spam it more than orbs on trials on Live if you want to keep it active on players at all time : 4 GCDs to keep it on everybody including yourself for a 5 GCDs duration, that's way more skills needed, sure.
You wouldn't have to keep it active on all players all the time. It looks potent enough to where you could use it as a reactive spell for when players when they start take damage. Otherwise you could simply keep it on the tank.
But you literally cannot aim regen at a specific player. So. That isn't a thing that can be done, period.
You could never aim regen at a specific player. But it's easy enough to just keep on the tank if he's the only one taking damage - because that is the person it will automatically target. The point of that post was you shouldn't have to spam it all the time. You simply use it when someone starts to take damage.
But the skill does not reliably behave by those rules, and if you had healed large groups taking heavy damage, you would know that ...
Have you used it yet?
Have I used a bread and butter resto staff ability? Yeah lol .. yeah I have.
So does it not target the person who is taking damage when you use it? It just randomly chooses a player?
It is unpredictable and does not always follow that rule, yes. As many, many, many other healers have confirmed in the last 48hrs. It sometimes applies itself repeatedly to someone who (1) already has the buff and (2) is not losing any health. It's buggy. We cannot count on it, especially in trials where 1sec is the difference between a wipe and a clear.
Well if it just randomly targets players maybe you would have to spam it to use it effectively. Hopefully they will fix that bug before it goes live.
The skill has been in the game for literal years. We are not holding our breath for that fix. xD0 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭snarkomatic wrote: »snarkomatic wrote: »snarkomatic wrote: »snarkomatic wrote: »snarkomatic wrote: »jbjondeaueb17_ESO wrote: »snarkomatic wrote: »snarkomatic wrote: »Sanguinor2 wrote: »
I explained why I brought up regeneration. Because it gives healers an effective and dependable heal to heal other players with so perhaps the DPS won't have to use vigor to heal themselves. They can actually rely on a healer to do it for them.
And not every ___ ____ comment on this forum has to be in the context of 12 man veteran raids. I would imagine far more players do 4 man content on this game than veteran trials anyway. So please stop perpetuating this myth that every comment made on this forum must be about veteran trials. It's getting very tedious.
But 4 man Content doesnt even Need healing in most cases. And in those it does you can make do with the nerfed springs and orbs, you only Need to heal 3 Targets, flashheals like BoL will be fine and in 4 man Regeneration can be useful.
But in 12 man, where springs and orbs healing Output nerfs actually matters Regeneration wont come even close to being a viable alternative. Thats why most People are Talking About vet Trial healing because it actually suffers from the changes.
Yup, this.
Four man healing will indeed be more fun and more versatile now. You're not wrong.
But the issues trial healers are bringing up are not less valid for that fact. We are specifically focused on AoE heals for a reason! That being: we have no viable alternatives on live.
If this does not affect you, awesome! But .. it affects us, so, let us discuss that. Thanks.
So discuss it. Who was standing in your way of discussing it?
People can post comments about how they like the new regeneration without somehow preventing you from discussing AoE heals. So I don't understand what your point is suppose to be.
I've been following this discussion for a few days, and I know people have attacked you. I am not one of those people.
However, you are the one who said "not every ___ ____ comment on this forum has to be in the context of 12 man veteran raids" ... so I was just responding to that remark. You don't understand why we are so focused on that specific context, and I am explaining to you the reason -- that being, that we are hyper-focused on AoE heals because that is the thing we (1) need most to keep 12 people up at the exact same time; and (2) are losing most.
No one has attacked me that I saw. Disagreeing with me is not attacking me.
You can be focused on that one specific context if you want. I don't have any problem with that. What I have a problem with is when you expect everyone else to be as well.
My post in reference to regeneration in this thread had absolutely nothing to do with healing some AoE phase in a veteran trial. It had to with the fact it was going to make healers better at healing DPS - therefore they shouldn't have to use vigor as often. The reason healers are discarded in a lot of content is because they aren't as reliable as simply doing it yourself. These changes should help with that.
The only players happy about the new Regeneration are PvPers, mostly solo one, in 4 man dungeons you are going to spam it more than orbs on trials on Live if you want to keep it active on players at all time : 4 GCDs to keep it on everybody including yourself for a 5 GCDs duration, that's way more skills needed, sure.
You wouldn't have to keep it active on all players all the time. It looks potent enough to where you could use it as a reactive spell for when players when they start take damage. Otherwise you could simply keep it on the tank.
But you literally cannot aim regen at a specific player. So. That isn't a thing that can be done, period.
You could never aim regen at a specific player. But it's easy enough to just keep on the tank if he's the only one taking damage - because that is the person it will automatically target. The point of that post was you shouldn't have to spam it all the time. You simply use it when someone starts to take damage.
But the skill does not reliably behave by those rules, and if you had healed large groups taking heavy damage, you would know that ...
Have you used it yet?
Have I used a bread and butter resto staff ability? Yeah lol .. yeah I have.
So does it not target the person who is taking damage when you use it? It just randomly chooses a player?
It is unpredictable and does not always follow that rule, yes. As many, many, many other healers have confirmed in the last 48hrs. It sometimes applies itself repeatedly to someone who (1) already has the buff and (2) is not losing any health. It's buggy. We cannot count on it, especially in trials where 1sec is the difference between a wipe and a clear.
Well if it just randomly targets players maybe you would have to spam it to use it effectively. Hopefully they will fix that bug before it goes live.
The skill has been in the game for literal years. We are not holding our breath for that fix. xD
I never remember having any problems keeping the old regeneration up on people. I haven't tried the new one out yet though.Edited by Jeremy on July 11, 2019 4:19AM0 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭snarkomatic wrote: »snarkomatic wrote: »snarkomatic wrote: »snarkomatic wrote: »[quote=snarkomatic wrote: »snarkomatic wrote: »snarkomatic wrote: »Sanguinor2 wrote: »
So discuss it. Who was standing in your way of discussing it?
People can post comments about how they like the new regeneration without somehow preventing you from discussing AoE healing. So I don't understand what your point is suppose to be.
There is more to this game than simply healing through some AoE phase during some veteran trial. Not every comment about this subject has to revolve around this one specific circumstance and it's extremely unreasonable to expect that it should.
I personally commented on Regeneration because everyone Talking About healing in this thread is Talking About Trials. So I assumed that you too would talk About Trials and thats the reason for the answer you got from me.
It was a general comment meant to apply to all content.
The new regeneration should work well as a tool to heal DPS in any content - including trials, 4 mans, anything that involves a player taking damage and not having to use vigor themselves. It makes healers more dependable - especially in circumstances where people are spread about and taking damage.
But it literally does not, and that is why trial healers are saying you're wrong. A single-target, unreliable-target HoT does not work for us. Most healers don't run it in trials even as the dual-target HoT it is on live. This is not a thing that helps us, and definitely is not a thing that will account for multiple stacks of illustrious.
I appreciate your input, but it doesn't belong here.
I've healed trials and I disagree with you.
The new regeneration looks nice. And just because you disagree with someone - that doesn't mean their input doesn't "belong here". These forums don't belong to you.
You're right, they don't! But .. this thread is pretty focused on VET trials and the loss healers are experiencing in that context. So you can share all the feedback you want for how this helps you and the content you do .. but that doesn't make it at all applicable to the content we do and the HPS we need.
As I told you - I believe the new regeneration will be an asset to healers in any content - including your veteran trials.
Now it may not not make up the difference for your orb spamming during AoE phases. But my post was not about that - nor does everything I post need to be about that.
I won't engage with the strawman that I "spam" orbs. That's been covered to death here in the last 48hrs and you should know better by now.
Main point being, you absolutely cannot run regen in vet trials as a reliable heal even on live, and much less can you do so after the patch that makes it apply to only one (unpredictable, un-target-able) player at a time. This is just silly to argue about. Focus on the numbers.
The "your" in my post was not meant in reference to you in particular. I have no idea how you play nor do I claim to know. It was meant generally as it relates to the debate as to whether or not orb spamming was the only viable way to heal during AoE phases. So that wasn't meant as a strawman. It was me merely point out that's not a topic I was engaging.
And why on earth can't you run regen in a vet trial?
Because you are looking at (6 on live, 12 on PTS) global cooldowns for an underwhelming HPS number that would require most of your resources and most of your GCD time to keep running. You cannot target it, you cannot control it, and it does not always even apply to people missing the buff because ZoS has such a buggy combat system.
It literally just does not work. It is not worthy of the time required to keep it running even as it exists on live, much less after the target number nerf as it is on PTS. It is inefficient on a good day.
t may not work as an effective replacement for orb or healing spring spamming during an AoE phase in a veteran trial - but as a healing tool generally it's an improvement and should help healers heal other players more effectively outside of that one occurrence you keep bringing up.
"That one occurrence" ... aka, the heal checks we are all concerned about?
You're right. Outside of those heal checks we are all worried about meeting, healing will be fine. It's like you don't understand what we keep saying in plain English: we cannot meet those heal checks with these numbers. And if you don't understand that, or don't interact with that, then your input is irrelevant to this specific subject.
No - it's like you don't understand not everyone else is only concerned with what you are.
I've told you at least 3 times now that one specific circumstance is not what I'm talking about. And if you don't like what I"m talking about - simply ignore my posts. Demanding that I only talk about what you want to talk about otherwise I should get off the forum is ridiculous.
I never, ever said you should get off the forum. Please take a breath.
I said your input is irrelevant to this one specific circumstance if you are not interested in meeting the heal checks we are all concerned about meeting. It's quoted right there above what you said in response. Idk what else to tell ya, bud.
You certainly gave that impression by saying I shouldn't be giving my "input" And I"m perfectly relaxed. I don't need to take a breath. Not sure why you think I'm angry or excited. I'm neither, trust me.
But you don't speak for everyone else. You keep talking as if you speak for "all" when I imagine it's only a tiny minority of people who play this game who even do veteran trials. So this idea unless you are talking about AoE phases during a veteran trial your input is irrelevant is silly.
I also don't know what else to tell you either - other than to suggest you simply ignore my comments if they're not talking about something you want to be talking about.
Okay. Have a nice night, then.
For perspective tho, the reason why people are telling you "don't comment if it doesn't affect you" is ... because you keep telling us it doesn't affect you lol.
This does affect me though - meaning the topic generally.
One of the reasons I quit my healer is I got sick of people demanding that I spam orbs and the lack of an effective heal that was omnidirectional.
These changes fix both of these problems for me. So naturally I'm going to defend them. It may even get me into healing again.Edited by Jeremy on July 11, 2019 4:33AM0 -
snarkomatic✭✭✭✭snarkomatic wrote: »snarkomatic wrote: »snarkomatic wrote: »snarkomatic wrote: »[quote=snarkomatic wrote: »snarkomatic wrote: »snarkomatic wrote: »Sanguinor2 wrote: »
So discuss it. Who was standing in your way of discussing it?
People can post comments about how they like the new regeneration without somehow preventing you from discussing AoE healing. So I don't understand what your point is suppose to be.
There is more to this game than simply healing through some AoE phase during some veteran trial. Not every comment about this subject has to revolve around this one specific circumstance and it's extremely unreasonable to expect that it should.
I personally commented on Regeneration because everyone Talking About healing in this thread is Talking About Trials. So I assumed that you too would talk About Trials and thats the reason for the answer you got from me.
It was a general comment meant to apply to all content.
The new regeneration should work well as a tool to heal DPS in any content - including trials, 4 mans, anything that involves a player taking damage and not having to use vigor themselves. It makes healers more dependable - especially in circumstances where people are spread about and taking damage.
But it literally does not, and that is why trial healers are saying you're wrong. A single-target, unreliable-target HoT does not work for us. Most healers don't run it in trials even as the dual-target HoT it is on live. This is not a thing that helps us, and definitely is not a thing that will account for multiple stacks of illustrious.
I appreciate your input, but it doesn't belong here.
I've healed trials and I disagree with you.
The new regeneration looks nice. And just because you disagree with someone - that doesn't mean their input doesn't "belong here". These forums don't belong to you.
You're right, they don't! But .. this thread is pretty focused on VET trials and the loss healers are experiencing in that context. So you can share all the feedback you want for how this helps you and the content you do .. but that doesn't make it at all applicable to the content we do and the HPS we need.
As I told you - I believe the new regeneration will be an asset to healers in any content - including your veteran trials.
Now it may not not make up the difference for your orb spamming during AoE phases. But my post was not about that - nor does everything I post need to be about that.
I won't engage with the strawman that I "spam" orbs. That's been covered to death here in the last 48hrs and you should know better by now.
Main point being, you absolutely cannot run regen in vet trials as a reliable heal even on live, and much less can you do so after the patch that makes it apply to only one (unpredictable, un-target-able) player at a time. This is just silly to argue about. Focus on the numbers.
The "your" in my post was not meant in reference to you in particular. I have no idea how you play nor do I claim to know. It was meant generally as it relates to the debate as to whether or not orb spamming was the only viable way to heal during AoE phases. So that wasn't meant as a strawman. It was me merely point out that's not a topic I was engaging.
And why on earth can't you run regen in a vet trial?
Because you are looking at (6 on live, 12 on PTS) global cooldowns for an underwhelming HPS number that would require most of your resources and most of your GCD time to keep running. You cannot target it, you cannot control it, and it does not always even apply to people missing the buff because ZoS has such a buggy combat system.
It literally just does not work. It is not worthy of the time required to keep it running even as it exists on live, much less after the target number nerf as it is on PTS. It is inefficient on a good day.
t may not work as an effective replacement for orb or healing spring spamming during an AoE phase in a veteran trial - but as a healing tool generally it's an improvement and should help healers heal other players more effectively outside of that one occurrence you keep bringing up.
"That one occurrence" ... aka, the heal checks we are all concerned about?
You're right. Outside of those heal checks we are all worried about meeting, healing will be fine. It's like you don't understand what we keep saying in plain English: we cannot meet those heal checks with these numbers. And if you don't understand that, or don't interact with that, then your input is irrelevant to this specific subject.
No - it's like you don't understand not everyone else is only concerned with what you are.
I've told you at least 3 times now that one specific circumstance is not what I'm talking about. And if you don't like what I"m talking about - simply ignore my posts. Demanding that I only talk about what you want to talk about otherwise I should get off the forum is ridiculous.
I never, ever said you should get off the forum. Please take a breath.
I said your input is irrelevant to this one specific circumstance if you are not interested in meeting the heal checks we are all concerned about meeting. It's quoted right there above what you said in response. Idk what else to tell ya, bud.
You certainly gave that impression by saying I shouldn't be giving my "input" And I"m perfectly relaxed. I don't need to take a breath. Not sure why you think I'm angry or excited. I'm neither, trust me.
But you don't speak for everyone else. You keep talking as if you speak for "all" when I imagine it's only a tiny minority of people who play this game who even do veteran trials. So this idea unless you are talking about AoE phases during a veteran trial your input is irrelevant is silly.
I also don't know what else to tell you either - other than to suggest you simply ignore my comments if they're not talking about something you want to be talking about.
Okay. Have a nice night, then.
For perspective tho, the reason why people are telling you "don't comment if it doesn't affect you" is ... because you keep telling us it doesn't affect you lol.
This does affect me though - meaning the topic generally.
One of the reasons I quit my healer is I got sick of people demanding that I spam orbs and the lack of an effective heal that was omnidirectional.
These changes fix both of these problems for me. So naturally I'm going to defend them. It may even get me into healing again.
But ... neither of those things are an actual legitimate issue in healing as it exists on live. So I fail to see your point, as a healer main on live.3 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭snarkomatic wrote: »snarkomatic wrote: »snarkomatic wrote: »snarkomatic wrote: »snarkomatic wrote: »[quote=snarkomatic wrote: »snarkomatic wrote: »snarkomatic wrote: »Sanguinor2 wrote: »
So discuss it. Who was standing in your way of discussing it?
People can post comments about how they like the new regeneration without somehow preventing you from discussing AoE healing. So I don't understand what your point is suppose to be.
There is more to this game than simply healing through some AoE phase during some veteran trial. Not every comment about this subject has to revolve around this one specific circumstance and it's extremely unreasonable to expect that it should.
I personally commented on Regeneration because everyone Talking About healing in this thread is Talking About Trials. So I assumed that you too would talk About Trials and thats the reason for the answer you got from me.
It was a general comment meant to apply to all content.
The new regeneration should work well as a tool to heal DPS in any content - including trials, 4 mans, anything that involves a player taking damage and not having to use vigor themselves. It makes healers more dependable - especially in circumstances where people are spread about and taking damage.
But it literally does not, and that is why trial healers are saying you're wrong. A single-target, unreliable-target HoT does not work for us. Most healers don't run it in trials even as the dual-target HoT it is on live. This is not a thing that helps us, and definitely is not a thing that will account for multiple stacks of illustrious.
I appreciate your input, but it doesn't belong here.
I've healed trials and I disagree with you.
The new regeneration looks nice. And just because you disagree with someone - that doesn't mean their input doesn't "belong here". These forums don't belong to you.
You're right, they don't! But .. this thread is pretty focused on VET trials and the loss healers are experiencing in that context. So you can share all the feedback you want for how this helps you and the content you do .. but that doesn't make it at all applicable to the content we do and the HPS we need.
As I told you - I believe the new regeneration will be an asset to healers in any content - including your veteran trials.
Now it may not not make up the difference for your orb spamming during AoE phases. But my post was not about that - nor does everything I post need to be about that.
I won't engage with the strawman that I "spam" orbs. That's been covered to death here in the last 48hrs and you should know better by now.
Main point being, you absolutely cannot run regen in vet trials as a reliable heal even on live, and much less can you do so after the patch that makes it apply to only one (unpredictable, un-target-able) player at a time. This is just silly to argue about. Focus on the numbers.
The "your" in my post was not meant in reference to you in particular. I have no idea how you play nor do I claim to know. It was meant generally as it relates to the debate as to whether or not orb spamming was the only viable way to heal during AoE phases. So that wasn't meant as a strawman. It was me merely point out that's not a topic I was engaging.
And why on earth can't you run regen in a vet trial?
Because you are looking at (6 on live, 12 on PTS) global cooldowns for an underwhelming HPS number that would require most of your resources and most of your GCD time to keep running. You cannot target it, you cannot control it, and it does not always even apply to people missing the buff because ZoS has such a buggy combat system.
It literally just does not work. It is not worthy of the time required to keep it running even as it exists on live, much less after the target number nerf as it is on PTS. It is inefficient on a good day.
t may not work as an effective replacement for orb or healing spring spamming during an AoE phase in a veteran trial - but as a healing tool generally it's an improvement and should help healers heal other players more effectively outside of that one occurrence you keep bringing up.
"That one occurrence" ... aka, the heal checks we are all concerned about?
You're right. Outside of those heal checks we are all worried about meeting, healing will be fine. It's like you don't understand what we keep saying in plain English: we cannot meet those heal checks with these numbers. And if you don't understand that, or don't interact with that, then your input is irrelevant to this specific subject.
No - it's like you don't understand not everyone else is only concerned with what you are.
I've told you at least 3 times now that one specific circumstance is not what I'm talking about. And if you don't like what I"m talking about - simply ignore my posts. Demanding that I only talk about what you want to talk about otherwise I should get off the forum is ridiculous.
I never, ever said you should get off the forum. Please take a breath.
I said your input is irrelevant to this one specific circumstance if you are not interested in meeting the heal checks we are all concerned about meeting. It's quoted right there above what you said in response. Idk what else to tell ya, bud.
You certainly gave that impression by saying I shouldn't be giving my "input" And I"m perfectly relaxed. I don't need to take a breath. Not sure why you think I'm angry or excited. I'm neither, trust me.
But you don't speak for everyone else. You keep talking as if you speak for "all" when I imagine it's only a tiny minority of people who play this game who even do veteran trials. So this idea unless you are talking about AoE phases during a veteran trial your input is irrelevant is silly.
I also don't know what else to tell you either - other than to suggest you simply ignore my comments if they're not talking about something you want to be talking about.
Okay. Have a nice night, then.
For perspective tho, the reason why people are telling you "don't comment if it doesn't affect you" is ... because you keep telling us it doesn't affect you lol.
This does affect me though - meaning the topic generally.
One of the reasons I quit my healer is I got sick of people demanding that I spam orbs and the lack of an effective heal that was omnidirectional.
These changes fix both of these problems for me. So naturally I'm going to defend them. It may even get me into healing again.
But ... neither of those things are an actual legitimate issue in healing as it exists on live. So I fail to see your point, as a healer main on live.
They were an issue for me. So they are "actual legitimate issues" as far as I am concerned.
Trying to heal pugs with directional frontal heals and stacking positional heals is a nightmare. So this new regeneration is going to be a God sent for me if it works like It appears to me it does. And I no longer have to worry about some member pestering me to spam orbs either. Which will be nice.
Though if it's as buggy as you claim I may end up being disappointed with it.Edited by Jeremy on July 11, 2019 4:50AM0 -
Juhasow✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭If anything then DPS will go up this patch. Especially for stam builds which thanks to soul trap change also gain sustain improved by a lot.0 -
danara✭✭✭Vercingetorix wrote: ».RogueShark wrote: »Chicharron wrote: »It is not the end of the world for healers, i still remember the first great nerf that they gave to the Templars, we adapt well.
What i do not like are his arguments.ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »Please also remember that we've introduced some new abilities to help offset the loss of things such as Healing Springs stacking, with abilities like Ring of Preservation, or the large increase to Cleansing Ritual.
I fail to see how a warden will be able to use Cleansing Ritual.
Imagine how it's going to be for classes that don't have multiple class heals like warden.
They didn't think these changes through for anyone but templar, it seems.
Nightblades have Refreshing Path
Sorcerers have Twlight Matriarch and Major Vitality through their Encase skill
Dragonknights have Cinder Storm and Major Mending through their Obsidian Shield skill
Also, Siphon Spirit no longer has a cast time so magicka/life steal can be placed easily on major targets. Blood Altar now costs health and no longer has a cast time. ZoS is adding buffs in other places alongside the tools that already exist on other classes. There ARE options - it's just folks resisting the change. Others will adapt and do just fine next patch.
So tell me litlle genius, how will you heal vCR+3 execute phase or vHoF HM execute phase with the current pts state ? You dont want your healer to spam healing springs/orb ? OK. But tell me how the hell do i have to burst heal 12 People. And stop saying "Healing is Just about spamming orb" *wine wine wine* if you are a healer you drop 6 orb every 20 seconds (in trials) otherwise it is 3 in dunjeon.
Your post clearly show you know nothing about healing. Spamming orb... What about keeping combat prier up? Elemental punction ? Blockade ? Power of Light ? So stop doing the PGM on subject that you dont even have a damn clue like every noob who is supporting the change.
Orb thzt you can use multiple time is a good change indeed if they want to nerf it. But they have to do something with healing springs cause right Now it is Just impossible with this patch note to pass through mechanics Who ask you to play like that. It s not about skill it s about numbers, you dont have enough heal.
So Now what ? How much healers do i have to put in my party in order to pass through vCR+3?9? Yeah that should be enough.
And i ll not speak about my favorite staff (Master Resto staff) which is Now Just completely unplayable if they dont make a change in the Next patch note.
Sorry to be agressive but im fed up to see People coming like "hey dont worry healer you can still pass through Fungal Grotto !" and talking about they dont even know why they are using it. You Just look like the kind of healer (and im not sure that you are one, clearly) Who played Maelström lightning staff (and im not sure you have the skill to get it either) without droping a single wall (if at least you have it on your bar).Edited by danara on July 11, 2019 6:13AM14