Update 43 is now available for testing on the PTS! You can read the latest patch notes here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/categories/pts

Wood Elf/ Bosmer losing stealth passive, An open letter.

  • max_only
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    Seraphayel wrote: »
    124 upvotes and still completely ignored by ZOS. Classic.

    Because that's a pitiful amount. For every Bosmer complaining in this thread there might be thousands that don't even care about the stealth removal. And that's why ZOS doesn't care. The topic / problem is blown way out of proportion and its momentum died with the U21 PTS. This thread is kept alive by a handful of angry players/disappointed/sad players. That's about it.

    And talking about bad publicity because a dozen guys can't put this topic to rest? That's quite hilarious.

    Hey thanks for bumping the thread again. Don’t do too good of a job restarting discussion or else people will start to suspect you’re my second account used only to bolster thread views.

    I notice you never replied to the last thing I said to you, so I’m going to assume you have me on ignore and that it’s a bug that you can still see this thread.

    max_only wrote: »
    Seraphayel wrote: »
    BlueRaven wrote: »
    I hope they address some of these weird lore-twisting racial changes tomorrow during ESO Live.

    I'd bet my meager savings that they will not.

    Because there is no reason to do so. They already said what they wanted to say about racials weeks ago, twice. Once in their big write up and several times with developer comments on the various changes they made. You don't have to like the changes or agree with them, but they already communicated their reasoning for ALL of the changes, multiple times. There's no need to do it again during ESO Live.

    Oops, I'm back again.
    Seraphayel wrote: »
    Koronach wrote: »
    Seraphayel wrote: »
    Koronach wrote: »
    Seraphayel wrote: »
    BlueRaven wrote: »
    I hope they address some of these weird lore-twisting racial changes tomorrow during ESO Live.

    I'd bet my meager savings that they will not.

    Because there is no reason to do so. They already said what they wanted to say about racials weeks ago, twice. Once in their big write up and several times with developer comments on the various changes they made. You don't have to like the changes or agree with them, but they already communicated their reasoning for ALL of the changes, multiple times. There's no need to do it again during ESO Live.

    Oops, I'm back again.

    Actually they didn't explain all of them, and some are actually lore breaking in ESO itself not just over the series. It also becomes a bigger issue when they make remarks about wanting to preserve established lore and totally do the opposite.

    Again, it doesn't matter if you agree with their reasoning. They explained several things. What you might count as lore-breaking might not be the case for ZOS. To say they haven't communicated about the changes is not right. They have. You just don't like what they said.

    No they communicate with represenatives not with avg players. Again no they didn't explain all the changes. If the game itself states you should have something in dialogue or lore books, you should have it. The devs shouldn't mess with in game lore. Also I thought you said you were done arguing about this?

    Yeah I thought so too but you're all (like the ten guys that comment here mostly) just repeating the same arguments for over 30 pages now so I can do it too. Especially when some statements here are not true and full of exaggerations.

    @Seraphayel did you miss my reply to you?
    Seems like you did. Here it is again.
    max_only wrote: »
    Seraphayel wrote: »
    Eiron77 wrote: »
    Seraphayel wrote: »
    *snip*

    Because that's not what we want, we want a space (this thread) to give our feedback until ZOS does something about it.

    *snip*

    So why are you telling us to stop then? Saying "but it's time to move on and get over it" "Get used to your new Bosmer" does not get people to understand your opinion and is hardly feedback for ZOS that you're in favour for the new changes to Bosmer. It's a very rude way to tell us that our opinions do not matter and a crude attempt at silencing it.

    Again, I am not silencing anything. You can post about this topic as much as you want as it's your right to do so. If you rate this as feedback, it's too. I don't want to be rude when I say "move on".

    Based on previous experiences I just know that this thread will get you nowhere and "until ZOS does something about it" is a very, very entitled statement. ZOS does not have to do anything about it just to please you. You might think they do but they don't. This is the biggest problem here in this thread. Just because you might be right in your heads about this you are not necessarily right in the bigger picture or in general.

    Again, I say follow your own advice and move on. You're not adding anything we're not already aware of and to think otherwise only comes across as condescending.

    I think I'll follow this advice and leave this topic were it belongs, in the past. So best of luck with it.

    Nevertheless, your complaints are not adding anything you're not already aware of either.

    Well thanks for bumping it as long as you did. I appreciate it.

    Also, what you say makes sense. Radical acceptance of reality is the first step in coping with change. That is actual a psychological phenomenon. AND, not but (the word but is dismissive), and invalidation of other people is understandably perceived negatively. You may not have meant to be rude, and still it was received that way, which is valid.

    It is my belief that only those who actually like Zos and this game are the ones who participate. If I hated Zos and this game and had zero faith in them then I wouldn’t be continuing this thread. I would just quit. I know that Zos can change, that nothing is written in rubedite and it’s my continued faith in Zos that gives me the energy to persist. I’m passionate about this game or else I wouldn’t make the time to study, test, research, respond etc.

    Then
    Seraphayel wrote: »
    Koronach wrote: »
    Seraphayel wrote: »
    Koronach wrote: »
    Seraphayel wrote: »
    Koronach wrote: »
    Seraphayel wrote: »
    BlueRaven wrote: »
    I hope they address some of these weird lore-twisting racial changes tomorrow during ESO Live.

    I'd bet my meager savings that they will not.

    Because there is no reason to do so. They already said what they wanted to say about racials weeks ago, twice. Once in their big write up and several times with developer comments on the various changes they made. You don't have to like the changes or agree with them, but they already communicated their reasoning for ALL of the changes, multiple times. There's no need to do it again during ESO Live.

    Oops, I'm back again.

    Actually they didn't explain all of them, and some are actually lore breaking in ESO itself not just over the series. It also becomes a bigger issue when they make remarks about wanting to preserve established lore and totally do the opposite.

    Again, it doesn't matter if you agree with their reasoning. They explained several things. What you might count as lore-breaking might not be the case for ZOS. To say they haven't communicated about the changes is not right. They have. You just don't like what they said.

    No they communicate with represenatives not with avg players. Again no they didn't explain all the changes. If the game itself states you should have something in dialogue or lore books, you should have it. The devs shouldn't mess with in game lore. Also I thought you said you were done arguing about this?

    Yeah I thought so too but you're all (like the ten guys that comment here mostly) just repeating the same arguments for over 30 pages now so I can do it too. Especially when some statements here are not true and full of exaggerations.

    Most people don't even bother to join the forums. Just because it's the same people on here doesn't mean a lot of other people don't care as well.

    How goes the saying? The dissatisfied people usually go to the forums to vent their anger, the satisfied don't. Based on that the amount of dissatisfied people (Bosmer in this case) seems to be tiny because, as I said, this thread is driven by just a handful of people (plus me now).
    Seraphayel wrote: »
    Seraphayel wrote: »
    So you blame it on me that some posters here are posting baiting / insulting comments and ZOS is editing them instead of mine? Maybe my comments weren't the problem to begin with?

    "Listen to you?" Again, you expect them to follow your guidance on that topic which is the epitome of entitlement. As several other posters already have said, they're just satisfied when ZOS does exactly what they want. That's not hoping, that's demanding.

    Nope, I am just saying you're being rude by giving opinions unrelated to the topic which trivialises other forum user's opinions.

    Food for thought: Imagine if no one had given their feedback or "demanded", as you so aptly put, improvements to the game in its original state on day 1 release. Would ESO still be around or be as successful as it was today? I imagine, not.

    My opinion is not unrelated to the topic. It's unrelated to your demands and that's why you think it's rude when in fact it's not. What are you doing? Exactly, trivialising my opinion. Just because my opinion doesn't reflect the majority opinion in this thread it's not unrelated to the topic.

    Your food for thought means basically everything and nothing. I can start dozens of threads with things that might make the game better in my opinion, does it make sense in the end? Most likely not. This topic is not new. It's two months old. The racial changes are not new, most of them are two months old. They were done by feedback ZOS gathered over years.

    Again, the changes were made. It's not something that's still coming. The changes are live. You don't like them. Ohters do. There is nothing to come anymore. Does this mean nothing is going to change? Most likely not. Numbers will be tweaked as that's the natural course for such things and was basically the only thing that happened during the PTS cycle. Is it so hard to comprehend that they're not going to change the fundamental basics of a racial just because a handful of guys in the forum is making suggestions on things they'd prefer? The time for suggestions was almost two months ago. That window closed when the changes hit the live servers. This game doesn't revolve around you, your demands or your suggestions, even if you hope it does.


    Each account can only agree once. There are 83 agrees at last count. Anyone who knows about statistics online will tell you that thousands of people can like a YouTube video and only 10 post comments, if that. People see a comment that sums up their thoughts and leave it alone, no need to copy paste.

    Unless you are implying that we created over 80 accounts just to bolster this thread. For a forum, 1-2% unique commentators to likes ratio is actually great. In the first 10 pages alone there are at least 50 unique commentators.

    You are baiting. You state you would leave and then come back only to try to inflame emotion. That is tugging a bait line.

    #FiteForYourRite Bosmer = Stealth
    #OppositeResourceSiphoningAttacks
    || CP 1000+ || PC/NA || GUILDS: LWH; IA; CH; XA
    ""All gods' creatures (you lot) are equal when covered in A1 sauce"" -- Old Bosmeri Wisdom
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  • anadandy
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    Seraphayel wrote: »
    This thread is kept alive by a handful of angry players/disappointed/sad players. That's about it.

    Hey, don't discount your own contribution to keeping this thread alive - keep coming back to tell us all how pointless it all is. Credit where credit is due, man! <3


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  • Cundu_Ertur
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    Commancho wrote: »
    Use free tokens and change your race to Khajit.

    /Thread

    No.
    Taking stealth away from the Bosmer is like taking magic away from the Altmer, making Nords allergic to mead, or making Orcs pretty.
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  • Ogou
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    BlueRaven wrote: »
    Tasear wrote: »
    tyggerbob wrote: »
    Like I said before, I wonder how many of the people they consulted actually PLAY Bosmers or do justice quests regularly?

    Issue would be focus on combat gameplay is thought.

    This is certainly the impression I got from the race changes. Many appear to be very narrow focused to particular gameplay types and roles.

    Which matches perfectly with the goal to open up more choices.

    Other way around. ZOS' goal was to give players more options when they are choosing a race for a specific role not to give races more gameplay options.
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  • Cundu_Ertur
    Cundu_Ertur
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    Ogou wrote: »
    BlueRaven wrote: »
    Tasear wrote: »
    tyggerbob wrote: »
    Like I said before, I wonder how many of the people they consulted actually PLAY Bosmers or do justice quests regularly?

    Issue would be focus on combat gameplay is thought.

    This is certainly the impression I got from the race changes. Many appear to be very narrow focused to particular gameplay types and roles.

    Which matches perfectly with the goal to open up more choices.

    Other way around. ZOS' goal was to give players more options when they are choosing a race for a specific role not to give races more gameplay options.

    So when Gilliam said
    Now, instead of having a single race that focuses almost exclusively on a specific playstyle, you can pick based on a personal level.

    he didn't actually mean
    Now, instead of having a single race that focuses almost exclusively on a specific playstyle, you can pick based on a personal level.

    but something else.

    Because, to me, it seems that
    Now, instead of having a single race that focuses almost exclusively on a specific playstyle, you can pick based on a personal level.

    means
    Now, instead of having a single race that focuses almost exclusively on a specific playstyle, you can pick based on a personal level.

    which would mean that having a single race (Khajiit) as the exclusive thief race was not the original intent.
    Taking stealth away from the Bosmer is like taking magic away from the Altmer, making Nords allergic to mead, or making Orcs pretty.
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  • Ogou
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    Ogou wrote: »
    BlueRaven wrote: »
    Tasear wrote: »
    tyggerbob wrote: »
    Like I said before, I wonder how many of the people they consulted actually PLAY Bosmers or do justice quests regularly?

    Issue would be focus on combat gameplay is thought.

    This is certainly the impression I got from the race changes. Many appear to be very narrow focused to particular gameplay types and roles.

    Which matches perfectly with the goal to open up more choices.

    Other way around. ZOS' goal was to give players more options when they are choosing a race for a specific role not to give races more gameplay options.

    So when Gilliam said
    Now, instead of having a single race that focuses almost exclusively on a specific playstyle, you can pick based on a personal level.

    he didn't actually mean
    Now, instead of having a single race that focuses almost exclusively on a specific playstyle, you can pick based on a personal level.

    but something else.

    Because, to me, it seems that
    Now, instead of having a single race that focuses almost exclusively on a specific playstyle, you can pick based on a personal level.

    means
    Now, instead of having a single race that focuses almost exclusively on a specific playstyle, you can pick based on a personal level.

    which would mean that having a single race (Khajiit) as the exclusive thief race was not the original intent.

    And yet, their stated goal from that same post was:
    Allow more effective options when picking a race for each role in tanking, healing, or damage dealing.

    So yes, I am pretty sure that by playstyles @ZOS_Gilliam was referring to the tank/dps/healer roles and giving those more option than one single race.
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  • wedgebert
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    Ogou wrote: »
    So yes, I am pretty sure that by playstyles @ZOS_Gilliam was referring to the tank/dps/healer roles and giving those more option than one single race.

    So I guess they achieved that.

    As DPS you can pick from both Orc and Breton!
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  • Cundu_Ertur
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    Ogou wrote: »
    Ogou wrote: »
    BlueRaven wrote: »
    Tasear wrote: »
    tyggerbob wrote: »
    Like I said before, I wonder how many of the people they consulted actually PLAY Bosmers or do justice quests regularly?

    Issue would be focus on combat gameplay is thought.

    This is certainly the impression I got from the race changes. Many appear to be very narrow focused to particular gameplay types and roles.

    Which matches perfectly with the goal to open up more choices.

    Other way around. ZOS' goal was to give players more options when they are choosing a race for a specific role not to give races more gameplay options.

    So when Gilliam said
    Now, instead of having a single race that focuses almost exclusively on a specific playstyle, you can pick based on a personal level.

    he didn't actually mean
    Now, instead of having a single race that focuses almost exclusively on a specific playstyle, you can pick based on a personal level.

    but something else.

    Because, to me, it seems that
    Now, instead of having a single race that focuses almost exclusively on a specific playstyle, you can pick based on a personal level.

    means
    Now, instead of having a single race that focuses almost exclusively on a specific playstyle, you can pick based on a personal level.

    which would mean that having a single race (Khajiit) as the exclusive thief race was not the original intent.

    And yet, their stated goal from that same post was:
    Allow more effective options when picking a race for each role in tanking, healing, or damage dealing.

    So yes, I am pretty sure that by playstyles @ZOS_Gilliam was referring to the tank/dps/healer roles and giving those more option than one single race.

    And how does limiting stealth gameplay, which has been a part of TES for 25 year, factor in as an absolute REQUIREMENT to do so? The other 2 Bosmer passives improved Bosmer dramatically -- they went from below the bottom of the barrel for stamDPS to somewhere in the middle of the pack. And no-one is complaining about that, except maybe to quibble about which resistance Bosmer should have. How does limiting all bonus to stealth to one race fit in? The only honest answer is that it does not. It would make no sense to take it from Khajiit, and it makes no sense to take it from Bosmer.
    Taking stealth away from the Bosmer is like taking magic away from the Altmer, making Nords allergic to mead, or making Orcs pretty.
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  • Ogou
    Ogou
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    wedgebert wrote: »
    Ogou wrote: »
    So yes, I am pretty sure that by playstyles @ZOS_Gilliam was referring to the tank/dps/healer roles and giving those more option than one single race.

    So I guess they achieved that.

    As DPS you can pick from both Orc and Breton!

    Well, technically yes. You can choose between Altmer, Khajiit, Breton, Orc, Redguard, Dunmer or Bosmer depending on your preferences.
    Ogou wrote: »
    Ogou wrote: »
    BlueRaven wrote: »
    Tasear wrote: »
    tyggerbob wrote: »
    Like I said before, I wonder how many of the people they consulted actually PLAY Bosmers or do justice quests regularly?

    Issue would be focus on combat gameplay is thought.

    This is certainly the impression I got from the race changes. Many appear to be very narrow focused to particular gameplay types and roles.

    Which matches perfectly with the goal to open up more choices.

    Other way around. ZOS' goal was to give players more options when they are choosing a race for a specific role not to give races more gameplay options.

    So when Gilliam said
    Now, instead of having a single race that focuses almost exclusively on a specific playstyle, you can pick based on a personal level.

    he didn't actually mean
    Now, instead of having a single race that focuses almost exclusively on a specific playstyle, you can pick based on a personal level.

    but something else.

    Because, to me, it seems that
    Now, instead of having a single race that focuses almost exclusively on a specific playstyle, you can pick based on a personal level.

    means
    Now, instead of having a single race that focuses almost exclusively on a specific playstyle, you can pick based on a personal level.

    which would mean that having a single race (Khajiit) as the exclusive thief race was not the original intent.

    And yet, their stated goal from that same post was:
    Allow more effective options when picking a race for each role in tanking, healing, or damage dealing.

    So yes, I am pretty sure that by playstyles @ZOS_Gilliam was referring to the tank/dps/healer roles and giving those more option than one single race.

    And how does limiting stealth gameplay, which has been a part of TES for 25 year, factor in as an absolute REQUIREMENT to do so? The other 2 Bosmer passives improved Bosmer dramatically -- they went from below the bottom of the barrel for stamDPS to somewhere in the middle of the pack. And no-one is complaining about that, except maybe to quibble about which resistance Bosmer should have. How does limiting all bonus to stealth to one race fit in? The only honest answer is that it does not. It would make no sense to take it from Khajiit, and it makes no sense to take it from Bosmer.

    It does not and I never said it did.
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  • wedgebert
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    Ogou wrote: »
    wedgebert wrote: »
    Ogou wrote: »
    So yes, I am pretty sure that by playstyles @ZOS_Gilliam was referring to the tank/dps/healer roles and giving those more option than one single race.

    So I guess they achieved that.

    As DPS you can pick from both Orc and Breton!

    But that's like saying you can pick Argonian for stealth gameplay or Altmer for tanking. Yes, you technically can pick any race for any role.

    However some races have overwhelming benefits compared to others. Orc and Breton for stam/magicka DPS respectively.

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  • MartiniDaniels
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    During New year holidays I came across this book while playing TES3. It is not included in ESO, well, because it's 3rd era:
    https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Words_and_Philosophy

    I ignored it before probably because of lackluster title, but this time I needed more insight into TES lore, so I was reading everything I find in game. And to my amazement this piece was one of the best displays of bosmer's personality. Not about green pact, cannibals and so on, but about racial/national character. Book became one of my favorite ones, because it nicely matched personality which I implied for my bosmers both in ESO and single-player games, and was a proof that I role-play wood elves correctly.
    It was before racial changes and now I decided to read it again for possible connection to stealth radius/detection thing, and guess what? Main character of this book is stealthy in described encounters and all the same can't detect enemies before they came in close proximity. Book is about sword-play actually, so this mentions of stealth are unintended and just show how original authors of lore perceived bosmers.

    "It was a scout from the Parikh tribe who surprised me while I was on camp watch. We surprised each other, I suppose. I had my bow at my side, and I just panicked, trying to string an arrow when he was half a yard away from me."
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  • wedgebert
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    Looks like you can add Argonians to the list of races that have a major mechanically verifiable complaint with the Wrathstone changes with backing evidence.
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  • Ogou
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    wedgebert wrote: »
    Ogou wrote: »
    wedgebert wrote: »
    Ogou wrote: »
    So yes, I am pretty sure that by playstyles @ZOS_Gilliam was referring to the tank/dps/healer roles and giving those more option than one single race.

    So I guess they achieved that.

    As DPS you can pick from both Orc and Breton!

    But that's like saying you can pick Argonian for stealth gameplay or Altmer for tanking. Yes, you technically can pick any race for any role.

    However some races have overwhelming benefits compared to others. Orc and Breton for stam/magicka DPS respectively.

    That would be true only if I said something along the lines of "choose any of the 10 races for any role you want". But that's not what I said.
    I gave you seven specific races (some for stamina, some for magicka) that have been shown to be close to each other in terms of DPS. So no, I don't see how
    wedgebert wrote: »
    [snip] that's like saying you can pick Argonian for stealth gameplay or Altmer for tanking.

    Also, what do you mean by overwhelming? The DPS races are closer now than they have ever been. To the point that the difference between them is smaller than the random variation between parses.
    Does that mean they are equal? Nope, the only way to accomplish that would be to remove all combat bonuses from the racial passives.

    Then again, that's not the point of this thread so I'm going to leave it at that.
    Edited by Ogou on March 26, 2019 3:34PM
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  • A_Silverius
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    A little over 149K people have made their first comment on the forums for, what, the past five years? Out of how many players, total? Millions in that same time?
    The sense I've gotten in guild and zone chat is that the Bosmer got screwed and most people understand that. They joke about it.

    The inescapable fact is that they got the lore entirely wrong for the Bosmer, and it is reflected in a weak and partially useless 3rd passive. And the Argonians want their poison resistance back, which I can't fault them for that since I'm wondering where my disease resistance is.

    I chatted with a guildie 3 days ago when we were napping with sleeps-on-bridges, we found him by chance while doing jesters event stuff, and the topic of bosmer stealth came up. She/he too didn't like the stealth changes and was surprised to find out there was a 40 page thread about it when I mentioned it.

    6KzGbQL.jpg
    Edit for picture:)
    Edited by A_Silverius on March 27, 2019 2:28PM
    All over Tamriel, theres a sudden spike in Bosmers getting caught for their crimes. A sad day indeed... #FightForYourRite Give Bosmers back our stealth!
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  • A_Silverius
    A_Silverius
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    Maybe all the races could have more options when it comes to racial passives and can only have a maximum limit of skill points which can be put into the racial skills category. For example:

    Wood Elf Racial Limit - 9/9

    Y'ffre's Endurance - 3/3
    Resist Affliction - 3/3
    Hunter's Eye - 0/3
    Stealthy - 3/3
    Etc.1 - 0/3
    Etc.2 - 0/3
    Etc.3 - 0/3
    ...

    Imo, I think this is good and is another step towards ESO being more of an rpg. PvP'ers and PvE'ers can minmax to their hearts content. Both player types happy, ZoS happy, Everyones happy:)

    Edit: Because no one wants hunter's eye oops:x
    Edited by A_Silverius on March 27, 2019 9:20AM
    All over Tamriel, theres a sudden spike in Bosmers getting caught for their crimes. A sad day indeed... #FightForYourRite Give Bosmers back our stealth!
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  • haelene
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    I still have three free skill points on all my characters. Hoping they come to their senses soon.

    One of my biggest worries is that they're going to try and implement some sort of sneak system for the npc mobs to justify this mess. As if we don't already have enough CC.
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  • BlueRaven
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    Well hopefully there is some good news for us tomorrow. :/

    From somewhere that is, now that I think about it does that mean we may get pts patch notes tomorrow?
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  • AngelFires333
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    Bosmer are still master race.

    f90989ae8afdf9533c5960685bd0b9d7.jpg
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  • Korlian
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    Pretty much all the fun is gone for me since I can't play the way I want to play anymore. All attempts to play since this change has lead to frustration and quitting the game everytime I try logging in. My fun has turned to frustration, it's sad. I wish I could refund my subscription that I got just before this change happen, not having fun, at all... so a total waste of money.

    Has anyone even found a way to play stealth close to before this change? Is it even possible? (I'm not racechanging to Khajiit, ever.)
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  • Cundu_Ertur
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    Korlian wrote: »
    Has anyone even found a way to play stealth close to before this change? Is it even possible? (I'm not racechanging to Khajiit, ever.)
    I did the grind, grind, grind for night mother's embrace gear in Deshaan and kept my Night Silence gear for my two stamina Bosmer, and got Night Terror jewelry from Stonefalls with Shadow Dancer gear from Greenshade and 4 bits of Magnus' Gift for my goofy hybrid. That gets them all about 2/3 of what they would have before.
    Taking stealth away from the Bosmer is like taking magic away from the Altmer, making Nords allergic to mead, or making Orcs pretty.
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  • Jaraal
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    Korlian wrote: »
    Pretty much all the fun is gone for me since I can't play the way I want to play anymore. All attempts to play since this change has lead to frustration and quitting the game everytime I try logging in. My fun has turned to frustration, it's sad. I wish I could refund my subscription that I got just before this change happen, not having fun, at all... so a total waste of money.

    Has anyone even found a way to play stealth close to before this change? Is it even possible? (I'm not racechanging to Khajiit, ever.)

    It was a planned decision on their part to force people to convert to Khajiit to break down resistance to playing the race, in order to sell more copies of the upcoming Khajiit chapter. Unfortunately, it seems to be backfiring on them. Can't buy a new DLC if you aren't playing.
    RIP Bosmer Nation. 4/4/14 - 2/25/19.
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  • Ogou
    Ogou
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    Jaraal wrote: »
    Korlian wrote: »
    Pretty much all the fun is gone for me since I can't play the way I want to play anymore. All attempts to play since this change has lead to frustration and quitting the game everytime I try logging in. My fun has turned to frustration, it's sad. I wish I could refund my subscription that I got just before this change happen, not having fun, at all... so a total waste of money.

    Has anyone even found a way to play stealth close to before this change? Is it even possible? (I'm not racechanging to Khajiit, ever.)

    It was a planned decision on their part to force people to convert to Khajiit to break down resistance to playing the race, in order to sell more copies of the upcoming Khajiit chapter. Unfortunately, it seems to be backfiring on them. Can't buy a new DLC if you aren't playing.

    They didn't have to that for Morrowind, they didn't have to do that for Summerset, why would they be doing that now for Elsweyr when according to ZOS themselves it has been the most requested region for a while now?
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  • tyggerbob
    tyggerbob
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    Ogou wrote: »
    Other way around. ZOS' goal was to give players more options when they are choosing a race for a specific role not to give races more gameplay options.

    Well they certainly narrowed the playing field for good justice play by making Khajiits the only really good sneaking race.. :)

    If you're a Bosmer, how did you used to steal that one of a kind item? Un-neek up on it! (oh... wait.. can't do that anymore! (waits patiently for Ogou's traditional response)
    Edited by tyggerbob on March 27, 2019 3:59PM
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  • HankTwo
    HankTwo
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    Easy mode PvE sneak build that works on any class/race and doesn't require vampire:

    https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=131042

    5 pieces night mother's embrace armor, 5 pieces night's silence on bow bar, 4 pieces night terror on dw bar, swift jewelry and steed mundus for extra speed.

    Very small detection radius on dw bar and no sneak speed penalty on bow bar. Good movement speed in general and sneak cost ist basically non existent. People who claim stealthy playstyle is destroyed because of one passive have no clue how to create a build it seems.
    PC EU
    Stam DK, Magden, Magplar, Stamcro, Hybrid Sorc, Magblade & Mag DK
    Options
  • tyggerbob
    tyggerbob
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    Ogou wrote: »
    They didn't have to that for Morrowind, they didn't have to do that for Summerset, why would they be doing that now for Elsweyr when according to ZOS themselves it has been the most requested region for a while now?
    Ogou wrote: »
    Jaraal wrote: »
    Korlian wrote: »
    Pretty much all the fun is gone for me since I can't play the way I want to play anymore. All attempts to play since this change has lead to frustration and quitting the game everytime I try logging in. My fun has turned to frustration, it's sad. I wish I could refund my subscription that I got just before this change happen, not having fun, at all... so a total waste of money.

    Has anyone even found a way to play stealth close to before this change? Is it even possible? (I'm not racechanging to Khajiit, ever.)

    It was a planned decision on their part to force people to convert to Khajiit to break down resistance to playing the race, in order to sell more copies of the upcoming Khajiit chapter. Unfortunately, it seems to be backfiring on them. Can't buy a new DLC if you aren't playing.

    They didn't have to that for Morrowind, they didn't have to do that for Summerset, why would they be doing that now for Elsweyr when according to ZOS themselves it has been the most requested region for a while now?

    Because many players in this game can be very 'humanoid-centric' and have a prejudice against playing what they think of as 'furries' or 'lizards'. That doesn't exist to the same extent for Dunmer or Altmer, that I have seen. I could see them using this as an opportunity to try to overcome this.
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  • tyggerbob
    tyggerbob
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    HankTwo wrote: »
    Easy mode PvE sneak build that works on any class/race and doesn't require vampire:

    https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=131042

    5 pieces night mother's embrace armor, 5 pieces night's silence on bow bar, 4 pieces night terror on dw bar, swift jewelry and steed mundus for extra speed.

    Very small detection radius on dw bar and no sneak speed penalty on bow bar. Good movement speed in general and sneak cost ist basically non existent. People who claim stealthy playstyle is destroyed because of one passive have no clue how to create a build it seems.

    I wouldn't go so far as to say destroyed. And yes I have that same build.. but when you combined it with the passive, Bosmers were nearly invisible
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  • Ogou
    Ogou
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    tyggerbob wrote: »
    Ogou wrote: »
    Other way around. ZOS' goal was to give players more options when they are choosing a race for a specific role not to give races more gameplay options.

    Well they certainly narrowed the playing field for good justice play by making Khajiits the only really good sneaking race.. :)

    If you're a Bosmer, how did you used to steal that one of a kind item? Un-neek up on it! (oh... wait.. can't do that anymore! (waits patiently for Ogou's traditional response)

    True, but they did not approach the changes with the goal of opening up the justice gameplay. That was more of a consequence of the weird (and imho wrong) way they decided to make the different races unique. On paper, they accomplished their goals. They just broke some people's fun with it too, in typical ZOS fashion.

    Goddammit Bob!!! :D
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  • tyggerbob
    tyggerbob
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    Ogou wrote: »
    tyggerbob wrote: »
    Ogou wrote: »
    Other way around. ZOS' goal was to give players more options when they are choosing a race for a specific role not to give races more gameplay options.

    Well they certainly narrowed the playing field for good justice play by making Khajiits the only really good sneaking race.. :)

    If you're a Bosmer, how did you used to steal that one of a kind item? Un-neek up on it! (oh... wait.. can't do that anymore! (waits patiently for Ogou's traditional response)

    True, but they did not approach the changes with the goal of opening up the justice gameplay. That was more of a consequence of the weird (and imho wrong) way they decided to make the different races unique. On paper, they accomplished their goals. They just broke some people's fun with it too, in typical ZOS fashion.

    Goddammit Bob!!! :D

    That is true. It was a side effect, not a goal.
    and LOL!
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  • Ogou
    Ogou
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    tyggerbob wrote: »
    Ogou wrote: »
    They didn't have to that for Morrowind, they didn't have to do that for Summerset, why would they be doing that now for Elsweyr when according to ZOS themselves it has been the most requested region for a while now?
    Ogou wrote: »
    Jaraal wrote: »
    Korlian wrote: »
    Pretty much all the fun is gone for me since I can't play the way I want to play anymore. All attempts to play since this change has lead to frustration and quitting the game everytime I try logging in. My fun has turned to frustration, it's sad. I wish I could refund my subscription that I got just before this change happen, not having fun, at all... so a total waste of money.

    Has anyone even found a way to play stealth close to before this change? Is it even possible? (I'm not racechanging to Khajiit, ever.)

    It was a planned decision on their part to force people to convert to Khajiit to break down resistance to playing the race, in order to sell more copies of the upcoming Khajiit chapter. Unfortunately, it seems to be backfiring on them. Can't buy a new DLC if you aren't playing.

    They didn't have to that for Morrowind, they didn't have to do that for Summerset, why would they be doing that now for Elsweyr when according to ZOS themselves it has been the most requested region for a while now?

    Because many players in this game can be very 'humanoid-centric' and have a prejudice against playing what they think of as 'furries' or 'lizards'. That doesn't exist to the same extent for Dunmer or Altmer, that I have seen. I could see them using this as an opportunity to try to overcome this.

    True, but you don't have to be a Khajiit to play the Elsweyr chapter, just like you didn't have to be a Altmer to play Summerset. I just don't see what ZOS stands to gain from trying to make Khajiit more popular.
    Options
  • HankTwo
    HankTwo
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    tyggerbob wrote: »
    HankTwo wrote: »
    Easy mode PvE sneak build that works on any class/race and doesn't require vampire:

    https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=131042

    5 pieces night mother's embrace armor, 5 pieces night's silence on bow bar, 4 pieces night terror on dw bar, swift jewelry and steed mundus for extra speed.

    Very small detection radius on dw bar and no sneak speed penalty on bow bar. Good movement speed in general and sneak cost ist basically non existent. People who claim stealthy playstyle is destroyed because of one passive have no clue how to create a build it seems.

    I wouldn't go so far as to say destroyed. And yes I have that same build.. but when you combined it with the passive, Bosmers were nearly invisible

    So what, now its just easy mode instead of super easy mode with such a build? I'm not even sure why people want to be almost invisible, where is the challenge in that? I completed both dark brotherhood and thieves guild on a heavy armor non-vampire nord (including heist and sacrament achievements). At least I had to play somewhat careful doing it this way.

    I understand that some players dislike this change, but they should stick to the facts. Stealth gameplay is manageable on any race and I don't see that ever changing in the future. Claiming otherwise is just dishonest.
    PC EU
    Stam DK, Magden, Magplar, Stamcro, Hybrid Sorc, Magblade & Mag DK
    Options
This discussion has been closed.