Wood Elf/ Bosmer losing stealth passive, An open letter.

Night_Wolf2112

Yes.... sand in the shoe is much more 'stealthy'! A nail in the head is easy to 'detect'

Alucardmike

Ähm... Sorry guys...

Could anyone tell me, what to do, if guards want to catch me?
I keep running, but it feels wrong...

Jaraal

Alucardmike wrote: »

Ähm... Sorry guys...

Could anyone tell me, what to do, if guards want to catch me?
I keep running, but it feels wrong...

Roll dodge out of Dodge!

Cundu_Ertur

Alucardmike wrote: »

Ähm... Sorry guys...

Could anyone tell me, what to do, if guards want to catch me?
I keep running, but it feels wrong...

Serious answer, jump in deep water so you are swimming. Guards won't swim, in my experience. Also, line of sight is a thing (usually). If you can break line of sight you may be able to hide again.

Jaraal

Mine was also serious. Since ZOS nerfed the root breaking component of Rapid Maneuvers, roll dodge is your only way to get away. They also nerfed Swift and speed potions, so you are in attack range longer.

Why they are so determined to push people away from Justice play is beyond me.

Cundu_Ertur

Jaraal wrote: »

Mine was also serious. Since ZOS nerfed the root breaking component of Rapid Maneuvers, roll dodge is your only way to get away. They also nerfed Swift and speed potions, so you are in attack range longer.

Why they are so determined to push people away from Justice play is beyond me.

"Thief" is no longer a valid archetype in ESO. Warriors and Mages need only apply.
I have to wonder if the upcoming 'revision' to the legerdemain system is the complete removal of it.

Alucardmike

Wow. Never had problems with sneaking.
But there is a difference between 4m or 7m.

And now, I am more running, than sneaking.
I try rolling and swimming. (Am I playing Zelda now? 🤨 )

wedgebert

Apparently this guy is interviewing the ESO devs and is soliciting questions. Make sure to upvote/comment the one about Bosmer stealth!

https://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/b31gsu/interviewing_eso_devs_any_questions_for_them/?st=jtgiyqee&sh=9a357af3

anadandy

wedgebert wrote: »

Apparently this guy is interviewing the ESO devs and is soliciting questions. Make sure to upvote/comment the one about Bosmer stealth!

https://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/b31gsu/interviewing_eso_devs_any_questions_for_them/?st=jtgiyqee&sh=9a357af3

Commented and upvoted.

Cundu_Ertur

Commented, but how do you upvote now? Maybe it's my browser but I don't see a way to do it. edit: worked it out.

It'll be obvious which one is me.

2nd edit: This is no longer an open letter but a megathread.

Jaraal

Cundu_Ertur wrote: »

2nd edit: This is no longer an open letter but a megathread.

Translation:

How to be ignored on a massive scale.

Cundu_Ertur

Ok, which one of you snuck into ZOS's server room and performed the rite of theft on their logon server? Good job, whoever it was!

Ratzkifal

Cundu_Ertur wrote: »

Ok, which one of you snuck into ZOS's server room and performed the rite of theft on their logon server? Good job, whoever it was!

I doubt it was any of us. We aren't nearly as sneaky enough to pull something like this anymore.

macsmooth

Cundu_Ertur wrote: »

Ok, which one of you snuck into ZOS's server room and performed the rite of theft on their logon server? Good job, whoever it was!

It could have only been a Cat Burglar

Cundu_Ertur

Pffft, I still have Morrowind, Oblivion, and Skyrim Bosmer whose sneaky archer Bosmer ways are unaffected by the current madness.

AngelFires333

War Customs Of The Tribal Bosmer Lore book


"tribal Bosmer have become legendary for their stealth."

http://teso.mmorpg-life.com/war-customs-of-the-tribal-bosmer-lorebook/

Nuff said.

AngelFires333

And when you fix this.
I highly recommend giving us the catmans crit passive.
Thank you

AngelFires333

Also the fall damg passive is a little silly imho.
Perhaps something with a little more gusto?

MartiniDaniels

AngelFires333 wrote: »

Also the fall damg passive is a little silly imho.
Perhaps something with a little more gusto?

It's not silly in PVP, probably one of that rare cases when "free" racial passive has direct combat effect.

AngelFires333

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

AngelFires333 wrote: »

Also the fall damg passive is a little silly imho.
Perhaps something with a little more gusto?

It's not silly in PVP, probably one of that rare cases when "free" racial passive has direct combat effect.

I was just being a git and pushing the envelope.

alanmatillab16_ESO

layers repeating the same points in a circle.

Cundu_Ertur wrote: »

Commented, but how do you upvote now? Maybe it's my browser but I don't see a way to do it. edit: worked it out.

It'll be obvious which one is me.

2nd edit: This is no longer an open letter but a megathread.

No, it is the same points being pushed around in a circle for 40 pages.

Jaraal

alanmatillab16_ESO wrote: »

layers repeating the same points in a circle.

Cundu_Ertur wrote: »

Commented, but how do you upvote now? Maybe it's my browser but I don't see a way to do it. edit: worked it out.

It'll be obvious which one is me.

2nd edit: This is no longer an open letter but a megathread.

No, it is the same points being pushed around in a circle for 40 pages.

Out of sight, out of mind. They are just waiting for us to go away. Then lore revision remains unexplained.




Not everyone is ready to give up on our Bosmer friends just yet.

Ratzkifal

alanmatillab16_ESO wrote: »

layers repeating the same points in a circle.

Cundu_Ertur wrote: »

Commented, but how do you upvote now? Maybe it's my browser but I don't see a way to do it. edit: worked it out.

It'll be obvious which one is me.

2nd edit: This is no longer an open letter but a megathread.

No, it is the same points being pushed around in a circle for 40 pages.

@alanmatillab16_ESO Because all of them are valid and we have yet to hear a single valid counter argument in any of the charges.
How is stealth detect more universally applicable than stealth radius when one is has zero use in PvE and little use in PvP while the other has mediocre use in both?
How are the 25 years of lore and the very game itself being respected as promised in the racial passives when a race with its roots in green pact, archery and stealth has no boni reflecting any of that? (Apart from maybe Archery if you do some intense mental gymnastics)
Why is it that two completely different races in appearance, playstyle and niche can not share a single passive component when the removal actively limits choice instead of expanding it?

I can go on if you want. Even if this were a circle we are pushing around in, as long as the points have not been addressed, we'll keep this going as the topic is still relevant to us every day until there has been an official statement that makes us lose faith completely or allows us to hope that good times are going to come back.

Kater_Murr

AngelFires333 wrote: »

And when you fix this.
I highly recommend giving us the catmans crit passive.
Thank you

AngelFires333 wrote: »

Also the fall damg passive is a little silly imho.
Perhaps something with a little more gusto?

It would be nice, probably, but lorewise, as many other people before me have observed, Khajiit "Cutpurse" passive (or, to be precise, its +5% chance to successfully pickpocket) should really be given to the Bosmer, just as Bosmer "Acrobat" passive (its 10% fall damage reduction part, which, to be honest, never made any difference to me) - to the Khajiit. They really just got it backwards, it's funny and ridiculous at the same time. It's the Khajiit, who are quite literally the frigging cats (always landing on their feet and whatnot), have always been known for their acrobatic prowess, not the Bosmer. I wasn't playing a Bosmer from the start, so I missed when exactly ZOS has added these "flavor passives" to the game, but when I finally made my not-so-sneaky-now-but-thank-God-still-sexy Bosmer Nightblade, I was kinda bewildered by ZOS's choice of this one.

alanmatillab16_ESO

Ratzkifal wrote: »

alanmatillab16_ESO wrote: »

layers repeating the same points in a circle.

Cundu_Ertur wrote: »

Commented, but how do you upvote now? Maybe it's my browser but I don't see a way to do it. edit: worked it out.

It'll be obvious which one is me.

2nd edit: This is no longer an open letter but a megathread.

No, it is the same points being pushed around in a circle for 40 pages.

@alanmatillab16_ESO Because all of them are valid and we have yet to hear a single valid counter argument in any of the charges.

Sticking your fingers in your ears and chanting "I won't hear you until you agree with me" doesn't count. So many are claiming their class was destroyed, their playstyle destroyed and such like just because they have lost that passive. If that passive was the only factor that decided whether or not a class existed then there would be no other races being thieves would there? yet clearly there are therefore it comes down to the player to make a particular race successful at being sneaky.

wedgebert

alanmatillab16_ESO wrote: »

Sticking your fingers in your ears and chanting "I won't hear you until you agree with me" doesn't count. So many are claiming their class was destroyed, their playstyle destroyed and such like just because they have lost that passive. If that passive was the only factor that decided whether or not a class existed then there would be no other races being thieves would there? yet clearly there are therefore it comes down to the player to make a particular race successful at being sneaky.

We're not sticking our fingers in our ears anymore than you're actually reading what the issue is.

Yes, any class can be a thief, but Bosmer are known for being extremely sneaky thieves. Stealth, alongside the Green Pact, is kind of the defining factor of Bosmer culture.

It would be like Civilization 6 deciding that England no longer had it's unique shipyard and instead received an amenity bonus for "tea time". You could still be a naval power with England, but it loses that special flavor that makes it England.

Eiron77

It's more like they decided Wolverine and Deadpool should have differences in their powers so they took away Wolverine's healing factor and gave him the ability to heal others instead... Because balance. That's why. Each hero[race] needs to be different!

And since wolverine's revised power has the word healing in its description, it's basically the same thing.

Eiron77

alanmatillab16_ESO wrote: »

layers repeating the same points in a circle.

Cundu_Ertur wrote: »

Commented, but how do you upvote now? Maybe it's my browser but I don't see a way to do it. edit: worked it out.

It'll be obvious which one is me.

2nd edit: This is no longer an open letter but a megathread.

No, it is the same points being pushed around in a circle for 40 pages.

This comment is also looping this thread. Youre not the first Forum Justice Warrior to jump on here to cry foul without adding anything new or relevant to the discussion. Sparking replies from user's to defend their position. Which causes the thread to be bumped further, thereby defeating the point you were trying to make. The cycle continues until another Forum Justice Warrior thinks they are condescending enough to make an obvious observation and round and round we go.

But, additionally, I will point out that its been my observation that throughout this thread there are new people jumping in. Because not everyone read or was aware of all the changes from the patch. They get bummed by the change. They go to the forums and see this massive thread already addressing their complaint. So they agreeably don't want to read through 40 pages so instead they add their two cents, thereby sparking repetive discussion. (Such as console player's who only got hit with the changes on the 12th.). This is the nature of internet forums with hot issues. The bosmer stealth complaints since the PTS have mostly condensed into this thread, which is how it should be.

The existence of this thread is not breaking any rules as far as I can tell. If you feel it is, report it and move on. Otherwise you're using a shovel to dig a whole in the water.

Jaraal

alanmatillab16_ESO wrote: »

If that passive was the only factor that decided whether or not a class existed then there would be no other races being thieves would there? yet clearly there are therefore it comes down to the player to make a particular race successful at being sneaky.

That's like telling PvPers "Hey, you can throw on any random armor sets and pick any CP you feel like and still play in Cyrodiil, so quit complaining." That would go over like a led zeppelin, don't you think? Sure, anybody can just run out and grab stuff from a crate and run off with it. But your success or failure is dependent on how well you can take advantage of the tools at your disposal. And they have removed possibly the best tool available to those who chose Bosmer.... for unclear reasons.

Some folks (like me) spend the majority of their time in Justice play. It's how I make my gold, and how I'm able to afford the expensive houses and armor sets. My wood elf main has made me millions, but now he's not worth the extra bounty generated, so he's parked, and my Khajiits are doing all the dirty work. But here's the difference: My main has done all the questing and the tedious Mages Guild stuff, the Undaunted stuff, the Fighter's guild stuff, Psijic grind, Thieves Guild, Dark Brotherhood....gotten all the wayshrines, hostile town access, etc..... and that takes hundreds of hours of play. None of my other guys have as much access, and it affects their Justice play and ability to fight and escape NPCs and guards successfully.

Which brings us to why do we need multiple thieves? Well, because ZOS has decided that a character can only fence 140 items a day. Which can be achieved by stealth in less than half an hour..... or about 5 minutes if you don't care about bounty and just murder everybody. So with five thieves, I'm able to sell 700 items a day, and still have time to do other stuff in game. But now I'm down to four, and really don't want to spend a thousand hours maxing all their NPC guild stuff.

So yeah, don't oversimplify a complex situation. Anybody can steal, but few can master it.

A_Silverius

alanmatillab16_ESO wrote: »

Ratzkifal wrote: »

@alanmatillab16_ESO Because all of them are valid and we have yet to hear a single valid counter argument in any of the charges.

Sticking your fingers in your ears and chanting "I won't hear you until you agree with me" doesn't count.

We welcome you to join in and try to debate our points, no one has any fingers in their ears except for comments by users which derails and adds nothing to the discussion. Telling people their opinions don''t matter and to get over it doesn't count as an argument worth debating over and naturally gets ignored. So I have no idea what posts you're talking about.