Wood Elf/ Bosmer losing stealth passive, An open letter.

Seraphayel · March 2019

A_Silverius wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

So you blame it on me that some posters here are posting baiting / insulting comments and ZOS is editing them instead of mine? Maybe my comments weren't the problem to begin with?

"Listen to you?" Again, you expect them to follow your guidance on that topic which is the epitome of entitlement. As several other posters already have said, they're just satisfied when ZOS does exactly what they want. That's not hoping, that's demanding.

Nope, I am just saying you're being rude by giving opinions unrelated to the topic which trivialises other forum user's opinions.

Food for thought: Imagine if no one had given their feedback or "demanded", as you so aptly put, improvements to the game in its original state on day 1 release. Would ESO still be around or be as successful as it was today? I imagine, not.

My opinion is not unrelated to the topic. It's unrelated to your demands and that's why you think it's rude when in fact it's not. What are you doing? Exactly, trivialising my opinion. Just because my opinion doesn't reflect the majority opinion in this thread it's not unrelated to the topic.

Your food for thought means basically everything and nothing. I can start dozens of threads with things that might make the game better in my opinion, does it make sense in the end? Most likely not. This topic is not new. It's two months old. The racial changes are not new, most of them are two months old. They were done by feedback ZOS gathered over years.

Again, the changes were made. It's not something that's still coming. The changes are live. You don't like them. Ohters do. There is nothing to come anymore. Does this mean nothing is going to change? Most likely not. Numbers will be tweaked as that's the natural course for such things and was basically the only thing that happened during the PTS cycle. Is it so hard to comprehend that they're not going to change the fundamental basics of a racial just because a handful of guys in the forum is making suggestions on things they'd prefer? The time for suggestions was almost two months ago. That window closed when the changes hit the live servers. This game doesn't revolve around you, your demands or your suggestions, even if you hope it does.

anadandy · March 2019

Sloads on PTS - people complained.
Sloads went live.
People continued to complain.
Devs made changes to Sloads.

That is just the one example that pops immediately to mind. It happens all the time - and I don't know why it bothers others so much that "we" continue to express our dissatisfaction with the hopes of enacting a change.

Seraphayel wrote: »

This game doesn't revolve around you, your demands or your suggestions, even if you hope it does.

Nope, that's not bait - not one little bit. /s

Edited for emphasis

Seraphayel · March 2019

anadandy wrote: »

Nope, that's not bait - not one little bit. /s

That's stating a fact and not baiting. If it is indeed baiting I hope it gets edited by ZOS in the next round of cleaning so I know for the future and won't do it again.

A_Silverius · March 2019

Seraphayel wrote: »

My opinion is not unrelated to the topic. It's unrelated to your demands and that's why you think it's rude when in fact it's not. What are you doing? Exactly, trivialising my opinion. Just because my opinion doesn't reflect the majority opinion in this thread it's not unrelated to the topic.

Your food for thought means basically everything and nothing. I can start dozens of threads with things that might make the game better in my opinion, does it make sense in the end? Most likely not. This topic is not new. It's two months old. The racial changes are not new, most of them are two months old. They were done by feedback ZOS gathered over years.

Again, the changes were made. It's not something that's still coming. The changes are live. You don't like them. Ohters do. There is nothing to come anymore. Does this mean nothing is going to change? Most likely not. Numbers will be tweaked as that's the natural course for such things and was basically the only thing that happened during the PTS cycle. Is it so hard to comprehend that they're not going to change the fundamental basics of a racial just because a handful of guys in the forum is making suggestions on things they'd prefer? The time for suggestions was almost two months ago. That window closed when the changes hit the live servers. This game doesn't revolve around you, your demands or your suggestions, even if you hope it does.

Telling people to "get over it and move on" does not relate to "Bosmers losing stealth passive" and it's most definitely rude which I am in no way trying to sugarcoat/trivialise the things you've said.

Asking ZOS to follow their own set of goals makes alot of sense to me. If they made changes according to feedback gathered "over years", then I don't see why you think this "2 month old" thread is a problem. You're not making anymore sense to me.

Again, you do not speak for ZOS. Many things in this game and the world does revolve around suggestions/feedback though, I've already provided the Guild Store Revamp as an example and how much better ESO is compared to day 1 release. They were improved because of player feedback, the time for suggestions are open as long as the forums are live and its not for you to decide when it closes. I, however, do not think it should revolve around me alone and I'm not sure why you keep insinuating that I think that way. (Snide remarks like that are unnecessary and makes you seem like you're baiting for a reaction) But I think ZOS should follow their own Goal: Achieve the above goals while still obeying our rich and structured lore and storytelling. But according to you, I guess am being entitled and that's too much to ask for.

A_Silverius · March 2019

Seraphayel wrote: »

anadandy wrote: »

Nope, that's not bait - not one little bit. /s

That's stating a fact and not baiting. If it is indeed baiting I hope it gets edited by ZOS in the next round of cleaning so I know for the future and won't do it again.

Its not really a fact when its not what I believe, and its rude to make such assumptions about anyones opinions.

Edit: But at least it is something I can easily "get over and move on" with

KMarble · March 2019

I feel bad posting this since I'm new to the forum, but I'd like to gently remind people to not stray too far away from the reason this thread exists: Bosmer losing stealth passive.

There is another saying in my country (according to my husband, we have too many): when one doesn't want, two don't fight. Although I do appreciate the bumps, we have to accept that some people will disagree with the general opinion stated in this thread. It is their right to state they opinion, but IMO, it isn't our job to convince them to change their POV.

A_Silverius · March 2019

KMarble wrote: »

I feel bad posting this since I'm new to the forum, but I'd like to gently remind people to not stray too far away from the reason this thread exists: Bosmer losing stealth passive.

There is another saying in my country (according to my husband, we have too many): when one doesn't want, two don't fight. Although I do appreciate the bumps, we have to accept that some people will disagree with the general opinion stated in this thread. It is their right to state they opinion, but IMO, it isn't our job to convince them to change their POV.

Thanks KMarble you're right, we should most definitely stay on topic.

max_only · March 2019

Seraphayel wrote: »

Cundu_Ertur wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

I hope they address some of these weird lore-twisting racial changes tomorrow during ESO Live.

I'd bet my meager savings that they will not.

Because there is no reason to do so. They already said what they wanted to say about racials weeks ago, twice. Once in their big write up and several times with developer comments on the various changes they made. You don't have to like the changes or agree with them, but they already communicated their reasoning for ALL of the changes, multiple times. There's no need to do it again during ESO Live.

Oops, I'm back again.

Seraphayel wrote: »

Koronach wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

Koronach wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

Cundu_Ertur wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

I hope they address some of these weird lore-twisting racial changes tomorrow during ESO Live.

I'd bet my meager savings that they will not.

Because there is no reason to do so. They already said what they wanted to say about racials weeks ago, twice. Once in their big write up and several times with developer comments on the various changes they made. You don't have to like the changes or agree with them, but they already communicated their reasoning for ALL of the changes, multiple times. There's no need to do it again during ESO Live.

Oops, I'm back again.

Actually they didn't explain all of them, and some are actually lore breaking in ESO itself not just over the series. It also becomes a bigger issue when they make remarks about wanting to preserve established lore and totally do the opposite.

Again, it doesn't matter if you agree with their reasoning. They explained several things. What you might count as lore-breaking might not be the case for ZOS. To say they haven't communicated about the changes is not right. They have. You just don't like what they said.

No they communicate with represenatives not with avg players. Again no they didn't explain all the changes. If the game itself states you should have something in dialogue or lore books, you should have it. The devs shouldn't mess with in game lore. Also I thought you said you were done arguing about this?

Yeah I thought so too but you're all (like the ten guys that comment here mostly) just repeating the same arguments for over 30 pages now so I can do it too. Especially when some statements here are not true and full of exaggerations.

@Seraphayel did you miss my reply to you?
Seems like you did. Here it is again.

max_only wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

Eiron77 wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

A_Silverius wrote: »

*snip*

Because that's not what we want, we want a space (this thread) to give our feedback until ZOS does something about it.

*snip*

So why are you telling us to stop then? Saying "but it's time to move on and get over it" "Get used to your new Bosmer" does not get people to understand your opinion and is hardly feedback for ZOS that you're in favour for the new changes to Bosmer. It's a very rude way to tell us that our opinions do not matter and a crude attempt at silencing it.

Again, I am not silencing anything. You can post about this topic as much as you want as it's your right to do so. If you rate this as feedback, it's too. I don't want to be rude when I say "move on".

Based on previous experiences I just know that this thread will get you nowhere and "until ZOS does something about it" is a very, very entitled statement. ZOS does not have to do anything about it just to please you. You might think they do but they don't. This is the biggest problem here in this thread. Just because you might be right in your heads about this you are not necessarily right in the bigger picture or in general.

Again, I say follow your own advice and move on. You're not adding anything we're not already aware of and to think otherwise only comes across as condescending.

I think I'll follow this advice and leave this topic were it belongs, in the past. So best of luck with it.

Nevertheless, your complaints are not adding anything you're not already aware of either.

Well thanks for bumping it as long as you did. I appreciate it.

Also, what you say makes sense. Radical acceptance of reality is the first step in coping with change. That is actual a psychological phenomenon. AND, not but (the word but is dismissive), and invalidation of other people is understandably perceived negatively. You may not have meant to be rude, and still it was received that way, which is valid.

It is my belief that only those who actually like Zos and this game are the ones who participate. If I hated Zos and this game and had zero faith in them then I wouldn’t be continuing this thread. I would just quit. I know that Zos can change, that nothing is written in rubedite and it’s my continued faith in Zos that gives me the energy to persist. I’m passionate about this game or else I wouldn’t make the time to study, test, research, respond etc.

Then

Seraphayel wrote: »

Koronach wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

Koronach wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

Koronach wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

Cundu_Ertur wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

I hope they address some of these weird lore-twisting racial changes tomorrow during ESO Live.

I'd bet my meager savings that they will not.

Because there is no reason to do so. They already said what they wanted to say about racials weeks ago, twice. Once in their big write up and several times with developer comments on the various changes they made. You don't have to like the changes or agree with them, but they already communicated their reasoning for ALL of the changes, multiple times. There's no need to do it again during ESO Live.

Oops, I'm back again.

Actually they didn't explain all of them, and some are actually lore breaking in ESO itself not just over the series. It also becomes a bigger issue when they make remarks about wanting to preserve established lore and totally do the opposite.

Again, it doesn't matter if you agree with their reasoning. They explained several things. What you might count as lore-breaking might not be the case for ZOS. To say they haven't communicated about the changes is not right. They have. You just don't like what they said.

No they communicate with represenatives not with avg players. Again no they didn't explain all the changes. If the game itself states you should have something in dialogue or lore books, you should have it. The devs shouldn't mess with in game lore. Also I thought you said you were done arguing about this?

Yeah I thought so too but you're all (like the ten guys that comment here mostly) just repeating the same arguments for over 30 pages now so I can do it too. Especially when some statements here are not true and full of exaggerations.

Most people don't even bother to join the forums. Just because it's the same people on here doesn't mean a lot of other people don't care as well.

How goes the saying? The dissatisfied people usually go to the forums to vent their anger, the satisfied don't. Based on that the amount of dissatisfied people (Bosmer in this case) seems to be tiny because, as I said, this thread is driven by just a handful of people (plus me now).

Seraphayel wrote: »

A_Silverius wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

So you blame it on me that some posters here are posting baiting / insulting comments and ZOS is editing them instead of mine? Maybe my comments weren't the problem to begin with?

"Listen to you?" Again, you expect them to follow your guidance on that topic which is the epitome of entitlement. As several other posters already have said, they're just satisfied when ZOS does exactly what they want. That's not hoping, that's demanding.

Nope, I am just saying you're being rude by giving opinions unrelated to the topic which trivialises other forum user's opinions.

Food for thought: Imagine if no one had given their feedback or "demanded", as you so aptly put, improvements to the game in its original state on day 1 release. Would ESO still be around or be as successful as it was today? I imagine, not.

My opinion is not unrelated to the topic. It's unrelated to your demands and that's why you think it's rude when in fact it's not. What are you doing? Exactly, trivialising my opinion. Just because my opinion doesn't reflect the majority opinion in this thread it's not unrelated to the topic.

Your food for thought means basically everything and nothing. I can start dozens of threads with things that might make the game better in my opinion, does it make sense in the end? Most likely not. This topic is not new. It's two months old. The racial changes are not new, most of them are two months old. They were done by feedback ZOS gathered over years.

Again, the changes were made. It's not something that's still coming. The changes are live. You don't like them. Ohters do. There is nothing to come anymore. Does this mean nothing is going to change? Most likely not. Numbers will be tweaked as that's the natural course for such things and was basically the only thing that happened during the PTS cycle. Is it so hard to comprehend that they're not going to change the fundamental basics of a racial just because a handful of guys in the forum is making suggestions on things they'd prefer? The time for suggestions was almost two months ago. That window closed when the changes hit the live servers. This game doesn't revolve around you, your demands or your suggestions, even if you hope it does.

Each account can only agree once. There are 83 agrees at last count. Anyone who knows about statistics online will tell you that thousands of people can like a YouTube video and only 10 post comments, if that. People see a comment that sums up their thoughts and leave it alone, no need to copy paste.

Unless you are implying that we created over 80 accounts just to bolster this thread. For a forum, 1-2% unique commentators to likes ratio is actually great. In the first 10 pages alone there are at least 50 unique commentators.

You are baiting. You state you would leave and then come back only to try to inflame emotion. That is tugging a bait line.

Truthsnark · March 2019

Why are people still responding to Seraphayel? No minds will be changed. Each reply only serves to assist in their goal of derailing this thread. Let's stick to the problem at hand.

Bosmer want their stealth back for the multiple reasons given in this thread.

We want ZOS to more concretely address their reasoning behind the racial changes because they are applied inconsistently and directly contradict themselves in different applications, and particularly with regards to their stated goal of making lore-friendly changes, yet stripping abilities long-established in lore from certain races (Bosmer, Argonians).

We also want ZOS to directly state what their plans are regarding stealth and the timeline for that to happen.

Basically, we just want acknowledgment that we are unhappy with what was done here and that they hear us. I don't think that's too much to ask.

Tigerseye · March 2019

Seraphayel wrote: »

A_Silverius wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

So you blame it on me that some posters here are posting baiting / insulting comments and ZOS is editing them instead of mine? Maybe my comments weren't the problem to begin with?

"Listen to you?" Again, you expect them to follow your guidance on that topic which is the epitome of entitlement. As several other posters already have said, they're just satisfied when ZOS does exactly what they want. That's not hoping, that's demanding.

Nope, I am just saying you're being rude by giving opinions unrelated to the topic which trivialises other forum user's opinions.

Food for thought: Imagine if no one had given their feedback or "demanded", as you so aptly put, improvements to the game in its original state on day 1 release. Would ESO still be around or be as successful as it was today? I imagine, not.

My opinion is not unrelated to the topic. It's unrelated to your demands and that's why you think it's rude when in fact it's not. What are you doing? Exactly, trivialising my opinion. Just because my opinion doesn't reflect the majority opinion in this thread it's not unrelated to the topic.

Your food for thought means basically everything and nothing. I can start dozens of threads with things that might make the game better in my opinion, does it make sense in the end? Most likely not. This topic is not new. It's two months old. The racial changes are not new, most of them are two months old. They were done by feedback ZOS gathered over years.

Again, the changes were made. It's not something that's still coming. The changes are live. You don't like them. Ohters do. There is nothing to come anymore. Does this mean nothing is going to change? Most likely not. Numbers will be tweaked as that's the natural course for such things and was basically the only thing that happened during the PTS cycle. Is it so hard to comprehend that they're not going to change the fundamental basics of a racial just because a handful of guys in the forum is making suggestions on things they'd prefer? The time for suggestions was almost two months ago. That window closed when the changes hit the live servers. This game doesn't revolve around you, your demands or your suggestions, even if you hope it does.

What's it to you, either way, Sera?

If people aren't happy, they have a right to say so.

If you don't agree, unless it directly affects you, why not just ignore it and move on?

Unless you are a big fan of stealth detection, for some reason, why would you care if it got changed back, or not?

Tigerseye · March 2019

max_only wrote: »

Something a guildmate pointed out to me (who isn’t a Bosmer and isn’t interested in ever being one) is that we have to spend Stamina doing an ACTION in order to get our PASSIVE.

I said that it irked me yes, but so many rolypoly players love it, I’d get no support if I called for change. If it was me, I’d have the extra penetration on all the time, no roll dodge required. But I’ve hesitated to bring it up and muddy the waters.

No, you're absolutely right.

I like rolling around, but it would be unrealistic to try to build around the assumption that you will be doing that, all the time, to get the extra penetration.

It's not always possible, or practical, to do so.

Tigerseye · March 2019

Seraphayel wrote: »

A_Silverius wrote: »

ZOS_GregoryV wrote: »

Greetings all,

We understand that some are happy with the racial passives and how others are not. Debating the changes is completely acceptable. However, baiting and flaming other members of the community, as well as bashing, are all violations of the rules that we have in place. Moving forward, we ask that all posts be kept civil and constructive, as well as with in the rules. If there may be any question in regards to the rules, please do feel free to review them here.

Thank you for your understanding,
-Greg-

Greetings Forum Overlord ZOS_GregoryV,

I appreciate the enforcement of forum rules, but I believe the comments from forum user Seraphayel: "but it's time to move on and get over it" "Get used to your new Bosmer" are in line with the nature of provoking conflict, baiting, inciting, mocking according to forum rules. Perhaps he/she does not understand that other players are allowed to give their feedback to ZOS but there were no constructive arguments in those statements, it was however akin to telling us that our feedback does not matter and we should just shut up and walk away. You having to snip several comments in this thread is already proof of that as they were all in reply to the comments from the above mentioned user Seraphayel.

Regards,
Sad stealthless Bosmer with bounty

I'm voicing a contrary opinion and stating facts. You're absolutely allowed to give your feedback, so am I. That's not baiting and that's not provoking at all. It's just in game reality as it stands by right now. For your surprise, none of my comments were edited in the first place. Only the reactions. There might be a reason why this is the case. Just because your comments get a lot of agrees or awesomes in this thread it mustn't be the only truth.

Well, agreeing with the "establishment" will rarely get you censored, that's true.

Like when you agree with the teacher, or the government and disagree with the other pupils, or the people.

Doesn't, necessarily, mean you're right and the people who disagree are wrong, though, does it?

max_only · March 2019

Truthsnark wrote: »

Why are people still responding to Seraphayel? No minds will be changed. Each reply only serves to assist in their goal of derailing this thread. Let's stick to the problem at hand.

Bosmer want their stealth back for the multiple reasons given in this thread.

We want ZOS to more concretely address their reasoning behind the racial changes because they are applied inconsistently and directly contradict themselves in different applications, and particularly with regards to their stated goal of making lore-friendly changes, yet stripping abilities long-established in lore from certain races (Bosmer, Argonians).

We also want ZOS to directly state what their plans are regarding stealth and the timeline for that to happen.

Basically, we just want acknowledgment that we are unhappy with what was done here and that they hear us. I don't think that's too much to ask.

From other posts in the forums, I’ve found this user can actually be reasonable. It’s a mystery why this thread sticks in their craw.

anadandy · March 2019

Update on Bethesda GamePlay days for those who were thinking of going to Boston

https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/55909

Summary: 1:30-9PM Friday and Saturday at the pub on Summer Street (right nextt o con center). No PAX badge needed.

BlueRaven · March 2019

anadandy wrote: »

Update on Bethesda GamePlay days for those who were thinking of going to Boston

https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/55909

Summary: 1:30-9PM Friday and Saturday at the pub on Summer Street (right nextt o con center). No PAX badge needed.

Thanks!

I am definitely planning on going.

My goals are;

Objective 1) See what has changed (if anything) on the Bosmer passives.

Objective 2) See if they added a new way to improve stealth.

Objective 3) Check out necromancer class. (I know this is not related to what we are talking about in this thread, but I am curious.)

Objective 4) See what I can find out from any reps there about bosmers and stealth.

Objective 5) See if I can snag any loot to give away to my guild(s).

max_only · March 2019

Tigerseye wrote: »

max_only wrote: »

Something a guildmate pointed out to me (who isn’t a Bosmer and isn’t interested in ever being one) is that we have to spend Stamina doing an ACTION in order to get our PASSIVE.

I said that it irked me yes, but so many rolypoly players love it, I’d get no support if I called for change. If it was me, I’d have the extra penetration on all the time, no roll dodge required. But I’ve hesitated to bring it up and muddy the waters.

No, you're absolutely right.

I like rolling around, but it would be unrealistic to try to build around the assumption that you will be doing that, all the time, to get the extra penetration.

It's not always possible, or practical, to do so.

Yes I was tanking the new dungeon and rolling right off the platform was a huge concern for all of us.

Tasear · March 2019

max_only wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

Eiron77 wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

A_Silverius wrote: »

*snip*

Because that's not what we want, we want a space (this thread) to give our feedback until ZOS does something about it.

*snip*

So why are you telling us to stop then? Saying "but it's time to move on and get over it" "Get used to your new Bosmer" does not get people to understand your opinion and is hardly feedback for ZOS that you're in favour for the new changes to Bosmer. It's a very rude way to tell us that our opinions do not matter and a crude attempt at silencing it.

Again, I am not silencing anything. You can post about this topic as much as you want as it's your right to do so. If you rate this as feedback, it's too. I don't want to be rude when I say "move on".

Based on previous experiences I just know that this thread will get you nowhere and "until ZOS does something about it" is a very, very entitled statement. ZOS does not have to do anything about it just to please you. You might think they do but they don't. This is the biggest problem here in this thread. Just because you might be right in your heads about this you are not necessarily right in the bigger picture or in general.

Again, I say follow your own advice and move on. You're not adding anything we're not already aware of and to think otherwise only comes across as condescending.

I think I'll follow this advice and leave this topic were it belongs, in the past. So best of luck with it.

Nevertheless, your complaints are not adding anything you're not already aware of either.

Well thanks for bumping it as long as you did. I appreciate it.

Also, what you say makes sense. Radical acceptance of reality is the first step in coping with change. That is actual a psychological phenomenon. AND, not but (the word but is dismissive), and invalidation of other people is understandably perceived negatively. You may not have meant to be rude, and still it was received that way, which is valid.

It is my belief that only those who actually like Zos and this game are the ones who participate. If I hated Zos and this game and had zero faith in them then I wouldn’t be continuing this thread. I would just quit. I know that Zos can change, that nothing is written in rubedite and it’s my continued faith in Zos that gives me the energy to persist. I’m passionate about this game or else I wouldn’t make the time to study, test, research, respond etc.

Let us continue to have faith.

zyk · March 2019

I think most ZOS devs are probably very talented, but I have no faith left in ZOS leadership.

Faith is for important things like love and god, not proprietors with an established track record of questionable ethics.

This is the same company that lets their community leads make jokes about crippling lag in patch notes, after all. Their attitude towards this is: bye, felicia. They're doing well enough that they don't have to be a responsive to customers who dare hold them accountable for their mistakes.

max_only · March 2019

I was working and missed the live stream. Did they say anything about any racials whatsoever? Also where is a link? Please and thanks.

BlueRaven · March 2019

max_only wrote: »

I was working and missed the live stream. Did they say anything about any racials whatsoever? Also where is a link? Please and thanks.

Nope they did not.

https://youtu.be/XAkfoIphJ7w

They talked a bit about the update, but they narrow focused on the guild store changes and the map completion screen.

For the loremaster bit they did not talk about the race changes at all, nor did they talk about any lore topics in depth.

They had some fun talking about how hard it was to pronounce some things, and that there is a dwemer naming guide.

The one bit I found interesting is that as loremaster he absolutely has a veto power over content, but that they rarely use it. Rather they help the designers get where they want to go via lore.

To me it sounded more like, “Let me give you a better way to justify that change via lore.” And not “Lore says otherwise, so reverse the change.”

I suspect that the loremaster will NOT have our backs on the stealth thing.

EDIT: I am doing this from my phone, so the YouTube link I provided above looks a bit odd.
In case it did not work, here is a back up twitch link.

https://m.twitch.tv/videos/396042802

Cundu_Ertur · March 2019

BlueRaven wrote: »

I suspect that the loremaster will NOT have our backs on the stealth thing.

Lore as inconvenience.
What a world.

BlueRaven · March 2019

Just a reminder, a bunch of content creators like Dottz Gaming were invited down to Bethesda to try out Elsweyr recently. (And to provide feedback.)

https://youtu.be/KPBwwKYiJgU

For now they are under a NDA, but I believe that lifts on March 25th 28th. I am really hoping that at least one of them mentioned the whole stealth/Bosmer thing to them. And that there is a response (even if it’s via a 3rd party YouTube video).

I suspect that until then, we will NOT get any word from ZOS about the stealth issue as any changes (or possibly even justifications) would be under that new content blanket.

EDIT: Fixed date. Thank you @anadandy !

anadandy · March 2019

BlueRaven wrote: »

The one bit I found interesting is that as loremaster he absolutely has a veto power over content, but that they rarely use it. Rather they help the designers get where they want to go via lore.

To me it sounded more like, “Let me give you a better way to justify that change via lore.” And not “Lore says otherwise, so reverse the change.”

That was how it sounded to me as well. I kind of feel for the guy, he started right in a mine field of questionable changes.

Also, the embargo lift has been pushed back to the 28th - I believe that was in the sticky thread about the event. (yes thats where it was)

Shimmer wrote: »

Embargo has changed to March 28. Could change again. At that time any press that reviewed it, or players that reviewed it can dilvulge details of the new chapter.

A_Silverius · March 2019

43:23, I wish this was true.

https://youtu.be/XAkfoIphJ7w?t=2602

anadandy · March 2019

"A lot of opportunities to make mistakes."

If only this was the door opener I wish it would be in regards to the "universal mechanic" blunder. Just admitting it would go a long way for me.

Ratzkifal · March 2019

I am honestly glad he answered my question on the VETO right at all and it's pretty much what I suspected. But he also said, his words do have weight and that he technically has this kind of power, but shouldn't use it like a hammer.

So what I am getting from this is that he could be the one to tell the devs to change the Altmer passive to be a physiological difference instead of "Alteration magic" and then making it so that the passive doesn't restore magicka on stam users and explain it with magic casting being more relaxing for Altmer than for other races. It would fit the same niche and work better within lore (although requiring new lore) and thus completely possible for him to give this kind of response.

But it also sounds like he would need to make up a reason why Bosmer are better at detection if balance calls for it (fortunately we also have arguments against balance calling for that, so it's not like they can just shoot us down with that response).

Night_Wolf2112 · March 2019

Basically they tossed him softballs and hit them.... absolutely 0 hard questions. They acted like there were no problems and it sounded like they will just tweak the lore to cover up the huge diversion they took from it.

Seraphayel · March 2019

BlueRaven wrote: »

max_only wrote: »

I was working and missed the live stream. Did they say anything about any racials whatsoever? Also where is a link? Please and thanks.

Nope they did not.

For the loremaster bit they did not talk about the race changes at all, nor did they talk about any lore topics in depth.

There was no indication that they would talk about racial changes, so nothing to be disappointed about honestly. They talked about them in detail during the first round of the PTS and then onwards in the developer comments.

wedgebert · March 2019

Seraphayel wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

max_only wrote: »

I was working and missed the live stream. Did they say anything about any racials whatsoever? Also where is a link? Please and thanks.

Nope they did not.

For the loremaster bit they did not talk about the race changes at all, nor did they talk about any lore topics in depth.

I mean, I already said it multiple times but...

There was no need to talk about the racial changes. They talked about them in detail during the first round of the PTS and then onwards in the developer comments.

They came in and said "here are our goals", made some changes that basically said "we lied about our goals and couldn't care less about the lore", made some tweaks and said "we know you have some concerns, but we're going to ignore them and pretend everything is great" and then disappeared.

There was no discussion or even real acknowledgement of what anyone raised. Not just regarding Bosmer, but also Altmer, Khajiit, and Argonian, plus others I'm sure.

Issues were raised from the moment the proposed racial changes were announced and they completely ignored us. They barely even explained why they made most of changes. Sure, they gave good reasons for switching from +% to +flat values, but pretty much everything else came across as them making changes on a whim.

Ratzkifal · March 2019

Night_Wolf2112 wrote: »

Basically they tossed him softballs and hit them.... absolutely 0 hard questions. They acted like there were no problems and it sounded like they will just tweak the lore to cover up the huge diversion they took from it.

To be fair, he was only there to introduce himself and talk about the job rather than talk about actual job-related topics since he just got the job and had probably no influence on any current changes nor had the time to talk to people involved.