PTS Update 21 - Feedback Thread for Racial Passive Changes

Arciris

colossalvoids wrote: »

Tenetomb wrote: »

Stamina races aren't balanced at all.
Orc is winning in every scenario, followed by Dunmer...

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/458985/raid-buffed-dps-test-each-class-each-dd-race-pts-4-3-3/p1

I did some maths too and i don't see how we could go further without Orc / Dunmer nerf. (Lower max stam bonus to 1k)
Other races seem well balanced.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en-gb/discussion/comment/5824352#Comment_5824352

In my maths, buffing Khajit crit damage to 14% seems mandatory. In parses, where everything is taken into account, it seems balanced with other races, but not Orc/Dunmer !

Are you taking into account orc/dunmer having no sustain at all? With dw enchants changes they will slot regen jewelry glyphs instead of absorb on infused offhand weapon, as absorb instead of backbar berserker is pointless loss outside of a dummy. And even then sustain will not be as good of course. In real raid scenario bosmer(especially as their regen not being associated with dealing damage)/redguard will be able to go with full light attack rotation while dunmers and orcs will be unable to do so without sacrifices in dps such as foods, berserker, glyphs and heavy attacks.

I agree with the Dunmer not having sustain at all part but Orc have 1k more health. so Orcs can build for sustain without loosing as much DPS as Dunmer (Orc + Lava food, +max stam + stam recovery will be beasts)

colossalvoids

Arciris wrote: »

colossalvoids wrote: »

Tenetomb wrote: »

Stamina races aren't balanced at all.
Orc is winning in every scenario, followed by Dunmer...

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/458985/raid-buffed-dps-test-each-class-each-dd-race-pts-4-3-3/p1

I did some maths too and i don't see how we could go further without Orc / Dunmer nerf. (Lower max stam bonus to 1k)
Other races seem well balanced.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en-gb/discussion/comment/5824352#Comment_5824352

In my maths, buffing Khajit crit damage to 14% seems mandatory. In parses, where everything is taken into account, it seems balanced with other races, but not Orc/Dunmer !

Are you taking into account orc/dunmer having no sustain at all? With dw enchants changes they will slot regen jewelry glyphs instead of absorb on infused offhand weapon, as absorb instead of backbar berserker is pointless loss outside of a dummy. And even then sustain will not be as good of course. In real raid scenario bosmer(especially as their regen not being associated with dealing damage)/redguard will be able to go with full light attack rotation while dunmers and orcs will be unable to do so without sacrifices in dps such as foods, berserker, glyphs and heavy attacks.

I agree with the Dunmer not having sustain at all part but Orc have 1k more health. so Orcs can build for sustain without loosing as much DPS as Dunmer (Orc + Lava food, +max stam + stam recovery will be beasts)

Agree on orc fully and aware, they probably will have stamina or health reduced going live.

Strider__Roshin

Nords need to be viable DPS. How about we swap their resistance passive for 258 weapon damage? The mitigation passive is actually weak. In order to be as strong as 258 weapon damage you'll need to increase it to 5950 spell and physical resistance. Don't believe me? 258 weapon damage is the equivalent of 1 kena and 1 veli, but 3960 is only worth 66.5% of the value of 1 Lord Warden, and 1 Pirate Skeleton.

Tenetomb

colossalvoids wrote: »

Are you taking into account orc/dunmer having no sustain at all? With dw enchants changes they will slot regen jewelry glyphs instead of absorb on infused offhand weapon, as absorb instead of backbar berserker is pointless loss outside of a dummy. And even then sustain will not be as good of course. In real raid scenario bosmer(especially as their regen not being associated with dealing damage)/redguard will be able to go with full light attack rotation while dunmers and orcs will be unable to do so without sacrifices in dps such as foods, berserker, glyphs and heavy attacks.

Did you juste look at the parses ?

In my calculations, i just looked at pure damage, as it was purely theorical.

That's why i linked parses too. There you have sustained damages and Orc / Dunmer are still top over other classes (and too far to have a great diversity imo).

zaria

Tenetomb wrote: »

Stamina races aren't balanced at all.
Orc is winning in every scenario, followed by Dunmer...

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/458985/raid-buffed-dps-test-each-class-each-dd-race-pts-4-3-3/p1

I did some maths too and i don't see how we could go further without Orc / Dunmer nerf. (Lower max stam bonus to 1k)
Other races seem well balanced.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en-gb/discussion/comment/5824352#Comment_5824352

In my maths, buffing Khajit crit damage to 14% seems mandatory. In parses, where everything is taken into account, it seems balanced with other races, but not Orc/Dunmer !

Easy, give Bosmer something useful rater than proc on roll dodge.
Give Khajiit resources or sustain to buff them.
Not sure about Redguards.

Taloros

I'm unhappy with the Wood Elf changes, before initial and reworked. Just give them back their stealth bonus. The announced changes will take away the sole reason I made one of my favorite characters, a wood elf melee sneak thief (stamina nightblade). Already lost fun in her and pretty much the game, as she'll loose her unique sneaking ability.

The changes - at least this one - seem to be focussed on balancing/fun for a small percentage of players. Who uses dodge roll, immediately attacks after that and cares about a speed boost or some percent of damage more or less? IMHO, only a fraction of PvP players, which in turn is a fraction of the player base. And even in PvP, I don't see much of a use for that racial.

Rungar

Daus wrote: »

Nords need to be viable DPS. How about we swap their resistance passive for 258 weapon damage? The mitigation passive is actually weak. In order to be as strong as 258 weapon damage you'll need to increase it to 5950 spell and physical resistance. Don't believe me? 258 weapon damage is the equivalent of 1 kena and 1 veli, but 3960 is only worth 66.5% of the value of 1 Lord Warden, and 1 Pirate Skeleton.

while i dont think nords should be a dps race i do agree that something like 5% block and bash cost should go with the 3960 to balance it properly.

Ozby

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Breton currently have top DPS and top sustain.

ZOS said they wanted to avoid this scenario when they nerfed Altmer in 4.3.1 (even though Altmer was never top DPS and top sustain).

Can we get an explanation for why this is okay all of a sudden? What reason does someone have to ever pick Altmer over Breton?

The simple fix to this would be to just revert the 4.3.1 nerfs to spell recharge. Breton would STILL have better sustain, but at least the gap would shrink, and I think most people would be fine with that.

Here we go, incoming nerf to Breton and Altmer stay the same lol.

OtarTheMad

Ozby wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Breton currently have top DPS and top sustain.

ZOS said they wanted to avoid this scenario when they nerfed Altmer in 4.3.1 (even though Altmer was never top DPS and top sustain).

Can we get an explanation for why this is okay all of a sudden? What reason does someone have to ever pick Altmer over Breton?

The simple fix to this would be to just revert the 4.3.1 nerfs to spell recharge. Breton would STILL have better sustain, but at least the gap would shrink, and I think most people would be fine with that.

Here we go, incoming nerf to Breton and Altmer stay the same lol.

Don't feed the monster lol.

ChivalrousPoptart

Rungar wrote: »

while i dont think nords should be a dps race i do agree that something like 5% block and bash cost should go with the 3960 to balance it properly.

So Nords get the worthless passive? Seems fair.

Lore wise, Nords excel in all manners of warfare and constantly aspire to improve themselves. Specifically, they are best with 2H weapons; a damage focused class of weapon (it shows in their passives too). To relegate Nords to ONLY tanking is, imo, lore-breaking.

Then again, the fact that Orcs are olympic sprinters is lore-breaking itself. Funnily enough, Orcs are actually the best at defense, so if anyone is stuck with that shoddy block passive, it's these guys.

silvereyes

I'm happy that ZOS got rid of the Bosmer bonus to damage from stealth, since that was mostly just for PvP, but the stuff they replaced it with is just comically bad. I haven't really noticed the speed boost being useful in real situations, and the penetration bonus after roll-dodging and stealth detect bonus are complete head-scratchers.

I know ZOS values its creative independence and rarely implements forum suggestions, but tbh, most of the suggestions I've seen here on the forums for what to do for Hunter's Eye sound *way* more fun than what ZOS has delivered. Some prominent examples:

• Better stealth, but not as good as Khajiit
• Any bonus that doesn't nerf their sustained stamina/medium armor DPS on current PTS, but boosts magicka and/or light armor wearers. It probably won't be useful to most, but at least could serve to increase diversity.
• Flat penetration bonus
• Increased damage for ranged attacks
• Major Evasion
• Reduced effectiveness of snares applied to you
• Increased sneak speed
• Health base stats

Please take note of community feedback.

Toc de Malsvi

colossalvoids wrote: »

Tenetomb wrote: »

Stamina races aren't balanced at all.
Orc is winning in every scenario, followed by Dunmer...

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/458985/raid-buffed-dps-test-each-class-each-dd-race-pts-4-3-3/p1

I did some maths too and i don't see how we could go further without Orc / Dunmer nerf. (Lower max stam bonus to 1k)
Other races seem well balanced.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en-gb/discussion/comment/5824352#Comment_5824352

In my maths, buffing Khajit crit damage to 14% seems mandatory. In parses, where everything is taken into account, it seems balanced with other races, but not Orc/Dunmer !

Are you taking into account orc/dunmer having no sustain at all? With dw enchants changes they will slot regen jewelry glyphs instead of absorb on infused offhand weapon, as absorb instead of backbar berserker is pointless loss outside of a dummy. And even then sustain will not be as good of course. In real raid scenario bosmer(especially as their regen not being associated with dealing damage)/redguard will be able to go with full light attack rotation while dunmers and orcs will be unable to do so without sacrifices in dps such as foods, berserker, glyphs and heavy attacks.

OMG so many of these BS posts, these tests weren't done where Bosmer and Redguard ended the dummy with 50%+ stam. The extra sustain is traded away to try and boost damage.

Stamina Weapon Enchants - Poison&Disease+Infused Absorb Stamina(all except Redguard, Bosmer, Imperial)/Poison&Disease+Infused Berserker(Redguard, Bosmer, Imperial)

You cannot look at passives and claim one build has more sustain than another. You have to actually look at the actual sustain/damage on a parse.

You can have a build that has 300 base regen hit 50k with no stam left and a build with 0 base regen also hit 50k with no stam left. Meaning regardless of a single passive it took both of them their whole stam pool to hit 50k, they are running dry at an equal rate.

You need to actually see the parses to know if they are running dry faster or slower. Otherwise you are arguing based on made up imaginary scenarios egregiously manipulated to your benefit.

MLGProPlayer

Ozby wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Breton currently have top DPS and top sustain.

ZOS said they wanted to avoid this scenario when they nerfed Altmer in 4.3.1 (even though Altmer was never top DPS and top sustain).

Can we get an explanation for why this is okay all of a sudden? What reason does someone have to ever pick Altmer over Breton?

The simple fix to this would be to just revert the 4.3.1 nerfs to spell recharge. Breton would STILL have better sustain, but at least the gap would shrink, and I think most people would be fine with that.

Here we go, incoming nerf to Breton and Altmer stay the same lol.

The easiest solution would be to revert the pointless Altmer nerf from 4.3.1. But because ZOS is too stubborn to admit their mistakes, we'll get some further nonsensical changes, if we get any changes at all.

Zer0oo

4.3.3 my thoughts:

altmer passives are bad:
the damage reduction is extreme restricted and only semi-useful on a templer but they already get minor protection from a passive so the reduction will be diminished. (No one wants to use cast time skills)

stat return of minimal stat pool from using class skills is another only very limited useful passive. Useless for pve at every role and not even tanks can make good use of it. You would get mag from it because you need a higher stam pool or you do not get stam from shards. In Addition you need a class/build that makes use of a lot of class skills to get the most out of it.

For pvp it is also not really worth a lot. Depending on your class and build (how often do you use class skills) it will be more or less equal to 100-150 stam reg if you would get it from an set or glyph.

for me altmers only have 2 good passives and the rest is useless and compared to other races they fall behind especial in pvp.


Orc:
still over the top. They did hit the jackpot will all useful passives and extreme strong ones too.


Khajit:
not really sure about that passive. for pve it was a nerf but i think it could worked out quite nice. For pvp the race brings almost nothing. the 10% crit damage does not work well in no cp because of low crit and in cp it gets diminished by other crit modifiers from cp and most pvpers do not like to build for high crit chance.

Woodelve:
same as altmer they have 2 very good passives but the last one is quite situational. Compared to other stam races they seem like a not really a good choice.


The rest of the changes races are fine in my opinion.

Side note:
Dunmer is really strong if you consider building into all stats for pvp and in pve they are almost best dd in both mag and stam




I also want to say it could potential hurt the pvp population balance if one faction has too many extreme good races compared to others. New players do not have the any-race-any-alliance package and will therefore start out in the faction that has the best races. If a streamer tells them orc is the best stam race and breton the best mag race independent of what class dc will get way too many new player.
Ep has quite interesting races for pvp but they are more for advanced players or special builds. And AD only has roleplay races who compared to all the others really s****. Maybe offer the package free for everyone so not only one alliance will mainly get new players.
(I did create for fun NA chars with the pts racials in mind and almost all my chars are dc)

Strider__Roshin

ChivalrousPoptart wrote: »

Rungar wrote: »

while i dont think nords should be a dps race i do agree that something like 5% block and bash cost should go with the 3960 to balance it properly.

So Nords get the worthless passive? Seems fair.

Lore wise, Nords excel in all manners of warfare and constantly aspire to improve themselves. Specifically, they are best with 2H weapons; a damage focused class of weapon (it shows in their passives too). To relegate Nords to ONLY tanking is, imo, lore-breaking.

Then again, the fact that Orcs are olympic sprinters is lore-breaking itself. Funnily enough, Orcs are actually the best at defense, so if anyone is stuck with that shoddy block passive, it's these guys.

^ This. Those two races need to be completely reworked.

Faulgor

I wish Nord could get something to let them catch up a bit to Imperials (who are now also decent DDs), but it might overload them stat-wise.

Nord
1.5k stam > 1.37
1k health > 0.8
2310 cold resistance > 0.77
3960 spell res > 1.3
3960 p. res > 1.3
half werewolf hide > 1.2
= 6.74

Imperial
2k health > 1.65
2k stam > 1.8
999 resource restore > 1.8 (bloodthorn is 1320)
half alteration > 1.2
= 6,45

Ideally I'd grant them stam ability cost reduction to be the counterpart to Bretons, but Imperials already have that as well. Maybe it's enough to change the ultimate passive from when hit to when in combat?

Likewise, Argonians seem to be falling behind. Their overall resource return is more conditional and less reliable than Imperials' for only a marginal increase in magnitude (~177 rec vs ~133). They have only half of Imperial's stats, and the 6% healing bonus, while equaling 3 (!) set bonuses, is rather mediocre even for dedicated healers, compared to 258 spell power of Altmer and Dunmer or Bretons' more reliable sustain.

IMO, and I get this is a more radical change, I'd make Argonians the sustain counterpart to Dunmer, i.e. change the max attribute stats from 1k magicka/health to 1875 magicka and stamina. Tanks would have enough other sources of health anyway and end up with more overall stats, healers and magicka DDs get a higher resource pool to catch up with other magicka races, and being an option for stamina DDs fits their lore as agile skirmishers much better.

Colecovision

I spent my eso evening with Limenauruus, Caanerin and a few other bosses playing with stamblades of different races. Bosmer is the clear winner on entertainment for solo pve fun. I really hope the qq about the "useless" dodgeroll passives get ignored. I was just rolling around to avoid stuff like I always do and I averaged around 33% uptime on the pen passive. It was 28% and 30% for limenauruus, but actually fairly high for bosses where I dodge through them as part of keeping them in endless hail. Vet Iceheart was around 40%.

I hope the dodgeroll passives stick. BiS for fun.

Kolzki

Khajiit is the only stamina race whose main damage passive does not scale in effectiveness with minor force, major force, Templar and Khajiit damage passives, the critical damage CP tree and the Shadow Mundus. That’s not good for use in pve groups, and it shows in dps tests on the pts.

Wolfahm

As said above and PROVEN in testing the Khajiit crit dmg passive should be reverted to Chance. This change was unwanted and unwarranted and brings nothing positive to the race letting them trail behind the other damage races. If the Key problem is Shadow REVERT SHADOW don't Ruin a Race. Aside from Damage this also limits build types and has VERY little utility for other rolls.

Rungar

Colecovision wrote: »

I spent my eso evening with Limenauruus, Caanerin and a few other bosses playing with stamblades of different races. Bosmer is the clear winner on entertainment for solo pve fun. I really hope the qq about the "useless" dodgeroll passives get ignored. I was just rolling around to avoid stuff like I always do and I averaged around 33% uptime on the pen passive. It was 28% and 30% for limenauruus, but actually fairly high for bosses where I dodge through them as part of keeping them in endless hail. Vet Iceheart was around 40%.

I hope the dodgeroll passives stick. BiS for fun.

totally agree.

colossalvoids

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

colossalvoids wrote: »

Tenetomb wrote: »

Stamina races aren't balanced at all.
Orc is winning in every scenario, followed by Dunmer...

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/458985/raid-buffed-dps-test-each-class-each-dd-race-pts-4-3-3/p1

I did some maths too and i don't see how we could go further without Orc / Dunmer nerf. (Lower max stam bonus to 1k)
Other races seem well balanced.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en-gb/discussion/comment/5824352#Comment_5824352

In my maths, buffing Khajit crit damage to 14% seems mandatory. In parses, where everything is taken into account, it seems balanced with other races, but not Orc/Dunmer !

Are you taking into account orc/dunmer having no sustain at all? With dw enchants changes they will slot regen jewelry glyphs instead of absorb on infused offhand weapon, as absorb instead of backbar berserker is pointless loss outside of a dummy. And even then sustain will not be as good of course. In real raid scenario bosmer(especially as their regen not being associated with dealing damage)/redguard will be able to go with full light attack rotation while dunmers and orcs will be unable to do so without sacrifices in dps such as foods, berserker, glyphs and heavy attacks.

OMG so many of these BS posts, these tests weren't done where Bosmer and Redguard ended the dummy with 50%+ stam. The extra sustain is traded away to try and boost damage.

Stamina Weapon Enchants - Poison&Disease+Infused Absorb Stamina(all except Redguard, Bosmer, Imperial)/Poison&Disease+Infused Berserker(Redguard, Bosmer, Imperial)

You cannot look at passives and claim one build has more sustain than another. You have to actually look at the actual sustain/damage on a parse.

You can have a build that has 300 base regen hit 50k with no stam left and a build with 0 base regen also hit 50k with no stam left. Meaning regardless of a single passive it took both of them their whole stam pool to hit 50k, they are running dry at an equal rate.

You need to actually see the parses to know if they are running dry faster or slower. Otherwise you are arguing based on made up imaginary scenarios egregiously manipulated to your benefit.

Imaginary scenarios and conclusions were made after pts solo parsing on 3, 6, 26 and 52 mil dummies, with all the races on two classes, stam nb and stam sorcerer. With only infused glyph swapping (b/i/i: no regen - 1 regen glyph, regen ones - weap damage and khajiit 1 non infused on bloodthirsty neck) I was aiming for the same drain / regen ratio and parses on 26 and 52 were equal as a tear on everyone with as small differences as 100 dps.
Just hop on pts and run it yourself if you have any doubts about it. Btw was using tzogvin instead of berserking for consistency. Maybe I misunderstand your comment due to my bad english skills but this should have an answer to where I was taking my examples from. And ofc orc is performing better having health on top, that's the only major difference.
Edit: (lied a bit, forgot that after last pts khajiit had bigger difference with other stam races not in his favour)

zaria

Kolzki wrote: »

Khajiit is the only stamina race whose main damage passive does not scale in effectiveness with minor force, major force, Templar and Khajiit damage passives, the critical damage CP tree and the Shadow Mundus. That’s not good for use in pve groups, and it shows in dps tests on the pts.

While also leaving them weak unbuffed there sustain races comes out on top.
Make me wonder if it was tested, or just calculated? The initial theory crafting looked far better than the actual result.

Rungar

even though everyone here is destructively dps obsessed i do like what youve done with the potential tank races here are a few tweaks from tank perspective

i consider the following races are defensive tanks
argonian
imperial
nord
redguard

all have a way to regen some stam while blocking Redguard is the best, nord is the worst and requires a class (DK) argonian and imperial are middle of the road but also regen mag and health.

to balance these races from a tanking perspective would suggest the following

1) 500 health for redguard
2) Argonian passive brought closer to old passive 4250 from a potion and 4% healing done and received +1000 stam
3) imperial regen passive brought up to 375/5 sec.
4) 6% block and bash cost reduction +500 health for nord

i think this will balance the defensive tanks

offensive tanks are the dunmer and orc.
1) add current altmer low resource passive to dunmer and reduce mag/stam to 1750.
2) orc might need stam reduced to 1750 and health increased to 1250 .

with a few slight modifications there might be a really good balance between the tankig races.

don't forget the tanks!

John_Falstaff

I don't think by now that ZOS actually tests anything. The change to khajiits was misguided, they're weaker solo, they're weaker with raid buffs, they're not any stronger as healers (good luck relying on freshly lowered crit chance to make use of critical healing) - and even as PvP gankers, they're not much better. Khajiits had racial identity that relieved them from using a lot of meta sets, running unorthodox choices, and now they're given a weak stat (it's not even fitting their formula of multiples of set bonuses or mundus stones - so I'm not even sure it's calculated in any way) that simply forces them to build for crit. And it's not even an option to carry CPs from precise strikes because everything else is already saturated.

That needs to be reverted. That's mind-boggling, taking away racial identity in one fell swoop.

technohic

Daus wrote: »

Nords need to be viable DPS. How about we swap their resistance passive for 258 weapon damage? The mitigation passive is actually weak. In order to be as strong as 258 weapon damage you'll need to increase it to 5950 spell and physical resistance. Don't believe me? 258 weapon damage is the equivalent of 1 kena and 1 veli, but 3960 is only worth 66.5% of the value of 1 Lord Warden, and 1 Pirate Skeleton.

This depends on how you look at it. You are looking at this as a flat value of what they will have if all things are equal and all wearing medium armor for a PvE parse, but the strength of this armor passive means in PvP when deciding on wearing medium over heavy. If you have 2k weapon damage then with that alone, you get basically 300 weapon damage opposed to being in heavy. You likely are going to have much more than that for weapon damage, and then you are going to have the recovery and crit and cost reduction and sprint speed of medium.

So if you are going to wear heavy, you become a tank. If you are going to wear medium, you are going to be tanky and have damage. The only place it does not come out very well is on the PvE parsing where the game is designed to go hard 1 way in either damage, tanking, or heals. They just will not be DPS or Heals. If you all are PvPers you are going to ruin this.

Eiron77

Colecovision wrote: »

I spent my eso evening with Limenauruus, Caanerin and a few other bosses playing with stamblades of different races. Bosmer is the clear winner on entertainment for solo pve fun. I really hope the qq about the "useless" dodgeroll passives get ignored. I was just rolling around to avoid stuff like I always do and I averaged around 33% uptime on the pen passive. It was 28% and 30% for limenauruus, but actually fairly high for bosses where I dodge through them as part of keeping them in endless hail. Vet Iceheart was around 40%.

I hope the dodgeroll passives stick. BiS for fun.

Imagine 100% uptime if they made the penetration permanent instead of only applied after spending 3.6k stamina from a chunky roll dodge. Then you could actually plan your stats around the penetration cap. Not many agree that's a fun way to play, but glad there's someone enjoying themselves with a niche passive, in one small portion of pve content.

I for one, won't even bother placing the skill points into Hunters Eye as of 4.3.3.

Starlock

Colecovision wrote: »

I spent my eso evening with Limenauruus, Caanerin and a few other bosses playing with stamblades of different races. Bosmer is the clear winner on entertainment for solo pve fun. I really hope the qq about the "useless" dodgeroll passives get ignored. I was just rolling around to avoid stuff like I always do and I averaged around 33% uptime on the pen passive. It was 28% and 30% for limenauruus, but actually fairly high for bosses where I dodge through them as part of keeping them in endless hail. Vet Iceheart was around 40%.

I hope the dodgeroll passives stick. BiS for fun.

It is fun - I have a character built around dodge rolling already who happens to be a Bosmer. That said, to make it work well you really have to build for it with unusually high stamina recovery. It's not for everyone, and I think that many won't find it that fun if they don't specifically build for it.

Eiron77

Starlock wrote: »

Colecovision wrote: »

I spent my eso evening with Limenauruus, Caanerin and a few other bosses playing with stamblades of different races. Bosmer is the clear winner on entertainment for solo pve fun. I really hope the qq about the "useless" dodgeroll passives get ignored. I was just rolling around to avoid stuff like I always do and I averaged around 33% uptime on the pen passive. It was 28% and 30% for limenauruus, but actually fairly high for bosses where I dodge through them as part of keeping them in endless hail. Vet Iceheart was around 40%.

I hope the dodgeroll passives stick. BiS for fun.

It is fun - I have a character built around dodge rolling already who happens to be a Bosmer. That said, to make it work well you really have to build for it with unusually high stamina recovery. It's not for everyone, and I think that many won't find it that fun if they don't specifically build for it.

Exactly. This is why it makes no sense as a racial, and would better suited as a set bonus.

tamrielwinner

again, really liking the 4.3.3 khajiit passives.

muh

It's so rare that I give feedback on balance changes in any game, but I ... this time I really have the rare urge to add my voice.

As a Khajiit main: The Khajiit change is disappointing.

I'm not going to talk numbers here. From the changes so far it undeniably looks like Khajiit is supposed to be a diverse race that brings something to everything. Be it tanking, healing or damage.

Now Critical Damage and Healing is something you have to build around to make use of, which is a major departure from Critical Chance that is "nice to have" in the worst of situations.

E.g. if you're playing a tank you certainly are more interested in staying alive than dealing damage. In this case the 10% critical damage feel like a complete waste of points. Critical Chance however could cause a HoT to crit more and give you that juicy base crit multiplier, or add extra damage here and there.

Just reading the passive, Critical Chance produces more exitement than Critical Damage. I think it's fair to say that most people have a deeper intuitive understanding how Critical Chance impacts their moment to moment gameplay than something that requires you to build around.

Which brings me to another con of Critical Damage. That you have to build around it makes it go somewhat against what the racial changes seemed to try to achieve. To me it seemed like the changes were aimed to make most niche boni apply broadly to their respective identity (meaning, hybrid remained hybrid, magicka and stamina remained magicka and stamina respectively).
E.g. instead of niche flame damage that requires a certain class and build to make good use of, you now get something that applies to everything, something that every class can make use of without sacrificing anything.

*I like to see the change from 4.3.3 reverted for all the reasons above. It feels like a slap in the face that something that has been there since launch (Weapon Critical Chance) is taken away because of ... I don't even know. A changed Mundus Stone? The addition of Spell Crit Chance?
As a long time Khajiit ... it's just disappointing. To me, this change absolutely takes away from their racial identity. Sure they remain crit based, but it's no longer a nice to have passive. Building and gearing to benefit from a passive is pretty active to me.


TL;DR: The change to Critical Damage makes the passive worthless for everything but damage roles, and then requires you to build around it still. This seems to go against the intention behind the racial changes, a departure from niche passives that require you to play certain classes or builds.

Edit: *Added something like a conclusion.