PTS Update 21 - Feedback Thread for Racial Passive Changes

Wolfahm

No div gear
Shadow mundus live - 9%
Shadow Mundus PTS - 13%
Khajiit Racial - 10%

Weapon/Spell Dmg
Mundus - 238
Orc/dunmer/altmer - 258


Why was the Khajiit racial passive not scaled to be higher than BASE mundus levels after shadow buff ( 14-15% ) so that we can use the Warrior/App/thief over shadow to make up for this horrid passive? ZoS said shadow was under preforming live but set khajiit racial scale based on OLD shadow levels. ( also just copy and pasted deleted part of racial bonus from beta )

Tommy_The_Gun

I know it is technically too late for any suggestions as ZOS will most likely put 4.3.4 PTS patch notes as the final Patch notes.. but anyway:

Recently I had an idea how to improve Argonian racials, how to make them slightly better so they can be still useful.
The idea was to replace the 6% healing done bonus (that is still weak and Argonians are probably the worst healers out of all magicka races) with a bonus to Increases resurrection speed by x%.

That way Argonians will have something to offer as a healer or tank or any support role. They will resurrect allies faster & also they could potentially be resurrected faster by others. This will be also in line with their lore: a will to stay alive no matter what and their ability to stay in the fray.

It does not have to be anything huge. Templars for comparison have Increases resurrection speed by 20%.
So argonians could have like 5 - 10%.

IDK, what do you think ?

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

Wolfahm wrote: »

No div gear
Shadow mundus live - 9%
Shadow Mundus PTS - 13%
Khajiit Racial - 10%

Weapon/Spell Dmg
Mundus - 238
Orc/dunmer/altmer - 258


Why was the Khajiit racial passive not scaled to be higher than BASE mundus levels after shadow buff ( 14-15% ) so that we can use the Warrior/App/thief over shadow to make up for this horrid passive? ZoS said shadow was under preforming live but set khajiit racial scale based on OLD shadow levels. ( also just copy and pasted deleted part of racial bonus from beta )

Going by what ZOS has said, that a five piece is 2.31* a set bonus and a mundai is 1.85 of a set bonus, the khajiit racial ought to be 13 or 12. As they gave basically all other damage dealers two set bonuses as a racial, be 2 max magic or double weapon/spell damage. Using the only set bonus that gives a crit hit damage increase and that does not use minor force, archer mind, which gives up to a 15% increase, that would give khajiit racial a value of 13%, as 15/2.31 is 6.5 for single set bonus and 6.5*2 is 13 or close to 12

alexj4596b14_ESO

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

I know it is technically too late for any suggestions as ZOS will most likely put 4.3.4 PTS patch notes as the final Patch notes.. but anyway:

Recently I had an idea how to improve Argonian racials, how to make them slightly better so they can be still useful.
The idea was to replace the 6% healing done bonus (that is still weak and Argonians are probably the worst healers out of all magicka races) with a bonus to Increases resurrection speed by x%.

That way Argonians will have something to offer as a healer or tank or any support role. They will resurrect allies faster & also they could potentially be resurrected faster by others. This will be also in line with their lore: a will to stay alive no matter what and their ability to stay in the fray.

It does not have to be anything huge. Templars for comparison have Increases resurrection speed by 20%.
So argonians could have like 5 - 10%.

IDK, what do you think ?

I'd keep the healing. The only thing they could do is increase crit damage/healing by x% in addition to the current healing. This would solve the whole Argos are bad everything! Concept that not really true....

Anyron

technohic wrote: »

I realize this is late with this being the final PTS but; knowing that this is what will likely go live, I logged into PTS with my Stamplar main, in 5 medium 2 heavy and respecced to every race I might possibly consider as a stamplar; and redgaurd also which I would NOT consider now. I am a PvP player so damage parses mean nothing to me. All I care about is if I can build something to work with. This is my feedback on what I see.

Nord, Orc, and Imperial are all interesting to me and a tough choice for what I would like to do, and even Dunmer if I want to be able to switch between magicka and stamina.

Nord adds some tankiness to my wearing medium armor, and while I am not super impressed with the ultimate generation, its a nice addition.

Orc provides more damage and speed along with reduced sprint cost which I rely on quite a bit and in general I feel the race is in a great spot.

Imperial has nice stats and cost reduction with some sustain on damage similar to what Redgaurd used to be for Stamplar so it is interesting for a templar in general now with inclusion of magicka.

Dunmer has some nice all around stats and are well rounded. The extra fire resist is even useful if you run Vamp and some classes seem to almost require it.

Redgaurd might be interesting for classes that rely on weapons, but it goes from being what once was the premiere stamplar race to not really good for stamplar at all with the passive only applying to weapon abilities. Its OK to have a race like this in balance perspective, but I find it an ethical issue as the identity there totally shifted to Imperial, and you now force people to switch who have invested in building for this. I am not one of them; but I am aware the popularity this race had with Stamplars.

Khajiit I feel like are just a little behind. Their extra recovery is too little to make up for getting lower stats than the other races and I see it as direct competition to Dunmer but max off stat is worth more to me than a small off stat recovery which I likely am not going to have enough to bother investing CP or otherwise into it. I thought I might keep my nightblade khajiit right up until this last check because I can gaurantee a crit with cloak, but I don't think I will as the stats on Dunmer look better and this is a class where I really want vamp.

Bosmer, well; the recovery makes good sustain to where you can build more into damage to almost be up there with the top ones on my list but the roll dodge passive is really odd, and stealth detec is very niche. The race in general is going to be very niche as to make use of it, you either are a roll dodge, hyper fast troll build, or you are what? A sentry role of some kind that you do not see a lot of people using? I can remember trying a way of the air and senche build a few years ago and its funny but totally spastic gameplay that is rough to go offensive on having to roll dodge every 6 seconds, and lag makes that even harder to actually then stay on a target. I really feel they could have had roll dodge and sprint cost reduction and maybe full time penetration and speed at a reduced rate. Something. Their close, but just weird and out of place.

I think thats all of them? At least what stuck out to me.

Same as zos, you forgot there are argonians too . But dont worry we are used to it because its like this since eso started

technohic

Anyron wrote: »

technohic wrote: »

I realize this is late with this being the final PTS but; knowing that this is what will likely go live, I logged into PTS with my Stamplar main, in 5 medium 2 heavy and respecced to every race I might possibly consider as a stamplar; and redgaurd also which I would NOT consider now. I am a PvP player so damage parses mean nothing to me. All I care about is if I can build something to work with. This is my feedback on what I see.

Nord, Orc, and Imperial are all interesting to me and a tough choice for what I would like to do, and even Dunmer if I want to be able to switch between magicka and stamina.

Nord adds some tankiness to my wearing medium armor, and while I am not super impressed with the ultimate generation, its a nice addition.

Orc provides more damage and speed along with reduced sprint cost which I rely on quite a bit and in general I feel the race is in a great spot.

Imperial has nice stats and cost reduction with some sustain on damage similar to what Redgaurd used to be for Stamplar so it is interesting for a templar in general now with inclusion of magicka.

Dunmer has some nice all around stats and are well rounded. The extra fire resist is even useful if you run Vamp and some classes seem to almost require it.

Redgaurd might be interesting for classes that rely on weapons, but it goes from being what once was the premiere stamplar race to not really good for stamplar at all with the passive only applying to weapon abilities. Its OK to have a race like this in balance perspective, but I find it an ethical issue as the identity there totally shifted to Imperial, and you now force people to switch who have invested in building for this. I am not one of them; but I am aware the popularity this race had with Stamplars.

Khajiit I feel like are just a little behind. Their extra recovery is too little to make up for getting lower stats than the other races and I see it as direct competition to Dunmer but max off stat is worth more to me than a small off stat recovery which I likely am not going to have enough to bother investing CP or otherwise into it. I thought I might keep my nightblade khajiit right up until this last check because I can gaurantee a crit with cloak, but I don't think I will as the stats on Dunmer look better and this is a class where I really want vamp.

Bosmer, well; the recovery makes good sustain to where you can build more into damage to almost be up there with the top ones on my list but the roll dodge passive is really odd, and stealth detec is very niche. The race in general is going to be very niche as to make use of it, you either are a roll dodge, hyper fast troll build, or you are what? A sentry role of some kind that you do not see a lot of people using? I can remember trying a way of the air and senche build a few years ago and its funny but totally spastic gameplay that is rough to go offensive on having to roll dodge every 6 seconds, and lag makes that even harder to actually then stay on a target. I really feel they could have had roll dodge and sprint cost reduction and maybe full time penetration and speed at a reduced rate. Something. Their close, but just weird and out of place.

I think thats all of them? At least what stuck out to me.

Same as zos, you forgot there are argonians too . But dont worry we are used to it because its like this since eso started

For the same reason I'd skip Altmer when I was looking at it as stam as it mostly has an off pool recovery mechanic in an otherwise magicka based race now but, you are right. It is not uncommon pre update to have Argonian stam characters. The potion passive has been nerfed around 15% and I font think there is enough there to make it worthwhile as a tweener like Dummer or Khajiit. Or maybe I am underestimating that the potion passive is still good, or extra health and healing is still a nice boost

Rehdaun

Hurrah!! The masses have spoken and Zos has listened!
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Wait for it...
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^^^^^^Zos

MLGProPlayer

Somehow, since Wrobel left the company, communication with the player base has actually gotten worse and the degree of mind-boggling changes has increased.

Malada

Dodge rolling to grant a Weapons or DPS bonus of any kind is a dumb idea.

I actually planned this entire wall of text about the Bosmer changes however I think that first line sums it up.

Why is it a dumb idea?

Because if I fail to murder you and your Elite Templar counters with hard jabs I will not be thinking of roll dodging to counter attack a player I cannot harm by -their design- with Stamina I don't have / has already been spent on buffs and the attack itself. I will be looking to roll dodge and escape so I can attack you again later on or out of spite so you cannot have the satisfaction of killing me.

Is that the only reason why this idea sucks?

Any decent, methodical killer is going to have concepts like Weapon Dmg, Armor Penetration, Mag/Health/Stam counts, supporting 2pc/5 pc sets and food/drink bonuses all worked out -before- the actual fight. Think about that for a moment. My Bosmer is already going into War dressed and armed to the teeth BEFORE the actual fight begins, knowing there is always a bigger fish whom I cannot take down alone... and everyone else will get annihilated.

What about those bigger fish...

Usually the only option is to use Dodge Roll in an attempt to escape AND you gots to move fast as hell. While it's true I might use Dodge Roll to help prolong a fight where I think I might have a chance at winning, however that result is determined by other factors and *not the roll dodge itself*. Certainly not the dmg itself as many times you have enough damage, it just comes down to who can sustain or leverage the hardest as Dodge Rolling is only the opening part of this process. If anything it may actually make more sense to have Dodge-Rolling provide some sort of healing or extra evasion to buy time for other escape mechanics to liberate the situation.

Well this idea could work to buff your offense in the middle of the fight...

A sane person would never hunt anything by alerting them to your presence before you're ready to start shooting. It goes against all logic since the dawn of creation where man first hunted for food with whatever he had on him. One thing that every hunt has in common is the need for silence, ie stealth. Roll dodging is noisy, brings attn to yourself, unnecessarily consumes a chunk of precious Stam (needed either to resume the attack or to get out of there) and breaks stealth. When fishing I do not take my boat paddle and slash around in the water, yelling and rocking the boat before putting my bait in the water. Although if I get surrounded by gators or worse the engine's always ready. Never used the engine as a weapon however.

Couldn't you just Roll Dodge, get your DMG bonus then re-enter Stealth?

Just because you can do something doesn't mean you should. Roll Dodging first, then ... re-entering Stealth adds alot of extra and unnecessary work to the opening Stealth attack rotation and like I said, may prevent your Stealth attacks from ever succeeding to start with. Plus there's the 6 seconds timer, which further adds stress and makes the Snipe attack from Stealth even more confusing, with more moving parts than it needs.

The new Bosmer buff gives them an edge over other racial passives that buff damage...

This is complete hog-wash. For example. Under the new rules I can take virtually any of the other races w/ DMG buff racial passives and comfortably produce a Stealth enabled build whose damage exceeds a Dodge-Rolling Bosmer, when attacking from Stealth, when attacking outside of Stealth without ever having to do any Roll Dodging.

Other than that I kinda liked it. Hunter's Eye is cool but unnecessary.

Why? Stealth detect pots are awesome and useful.

Pots of any kind are expensive. I'd rather spend my pots on supporting my tactics to fuel the overall strategy and use secondary means of accomplishing something that will unnecessarily cost me a fortune. For example, there are AOEs and certain Weapons that work just as good as Detect pots and bringing someone out of Stealth long enough to bring them down. IE... Templar Jabs. Free to. Hunter's Eye doesn't buff any of these.

Ultimately I feel it's time -after all these years- to hang up my bow. And retire my gal to the shelves. Won't delete her though, have lots of fun memories with my Bosmer and she provided me with a great deal of justice in this game. It's sad to see other races being so richly gifted and then some of the nicest aspect of the Bosmer are just getting chucked into the dumpster with all the other trash in this game and things that are -unused- or intentionally broken to passify unknown 3rd parties. Like turning on Smart Loot in Tam One for example. What a ****ing sh*t show.

You say I'm wrong. And everything is fine.

Well if everything is fine then why do I have to goto a Khajit now if I want to play a Stealthy character? I mean c'mon, some Bosmer fit right in the palm of your hand. They wouldn't make it thru a police line-up that's for sure. So wait you're telling me one of the smallest characters in the game, trained in deadly jungle warfare knows nothing about stealth tactics? While their neighbors who practically have lived in the same ****ing jungle for generations do? Really. I always thought the Kahjit more of Traders, and Infantry after reading books on things like "The 5 Years War" where they talk about the Battle Cats and the Legendary Khajit Warriors of old being described in much the same way as the Legendary Redguard Sword Singers and Air Masters who invaded Craglorn? Is anyone working on continuity here?

Form vs Function

This game follows suite with several others who accurately attribute a Archery or Marksman bonus to the Bosmer race. Funny because these same games also attribute a bonus to Sneak for them as well. Skyrim gives the Khajit 'Night Eye' and a massive Sneak Bonus. So Bosmer gets a large Archery bonus and a small Sneak bonus. Khajit gets a large Sneak bonus. Both get minor bonuses in similar things yet these two are clearly very different. In ESO, now only Khajit are Stealthy and Bosmer are not Stealthy. Lore describes the Bosmer as master Marksman who also use strong Sneak tactics and Khajit who are Shady yet seemingly a jack of all trades. None surprising these two went to war because they're alike yet different enough to step on each other's toes.

To all fellow Bosmer players out there I am so sorry. However I this is not the first time they've done something like this, remember how we had to swap Cyrodiil's Crest and Cryodiil's Ward? Remember that. Been around for ages and all of us had our builds ****ed with and lost the move speed bonus. Hell even the names made better sense before. What a state of affairs the game play here has become. Maybe someone will finally listen to us and fix this debacle however until then I have decided to hold up on buying Crowns yet will maybe keep the subscription. The real crime here is the money that people like me have dumped into this game -for the things we liked about this game- ... -that have been a part of the gameplay for years- are being embarrassingly demolished and sacrificed so that some Guilds and Trial Teams out there can have the build -they want- but don't need.

The Devs really should get on here and apologize to everyone for ruining the Bosmer. Although really I think a refund would be better. I did not pay money for Crowns or Subscription in this game for so long for changes like this. Maybe it's not all bad however tis not well either. If you don't want to listen to me then answer the literal tons of complaints all across this forum from other Bosmer players or Stealthies who have no clue wtf is going on.

Cundu_Ertur

You are right and this stealth nerf is a rubbish change, done in rubbish ways, for rubbish reasons.

I wouldn't even mind the roll-dodge movement/penetration thing if it still had proper stealth attached, not the completely-useless-outside-of-a-tiny-few-situations-in-PVP detection garbage.

Every TES game from Morrowind on had stealthy Bosmer, and now that gets completely written off, and wiped clean, because some dev has a hate on the Bosmer for whatever reason. I mean, I cannot think of any reason beyond spite for what is being done. For the Bosmer to initially lose stealth completely and the Khajiit get an extra 2m piled on top of the original 3m bonus...no, that's not coincidence. That's someone picking winners and losers and deliberately setting out to ruin Bosmer.

Malada

Cundu_Ertur wrote: »

You are right and this stealth nerf is a rubbish change, done in rubbish ways, for rubbish reasons.

I wouldn't even mind the roll-dodge movement/penetration thing if it still had proper stealth attached, not the completely-useless-outside-of-a-tiny-few-situations-in-PVP detection garbage.

Every TES game from Morrowind on had stealthy Bosmer, and now that gets completely written off, and wiped clean, because some dev has a hate on the Bosmer for whatever reason. I mean, I cannot think of any reason beyond spite for what is being done. For the Bosmer to initially lose stealth completely and the Khajiit get an extra 2m piled on top of the original 3m bonus...no, that's not coincidence. That's someone picking winners and losers and deliberately setting out to ruin Bosmer.

So their name can appear on the Leaderboards everyone other week instead of once a month and to help support their Trial Team(s).

Nevolent

On live:

Orc 6% stamina and health

Nord 6% stamina and 9% health

On pts:

Orc 2000 stamina and 1000 health + 258 wpd

Nord 1500 stamina and 1000 health

Zoe are u serious??? Why nord is nerfed to the ground? Why orc is so overpowered? Orcs are ugly I don't want to play one.

I wish the difference between stats were waaay smaller. I believe 258 weapon damage as a race Stat is very high! It should be like 150 or way less.

Ozby

Nevolent wrote: »

On live:

Orc 6% stamina and health

Nord 6% stamina and 9% health

On pts:

Orc 2000 stamina and 1000 health + 258 wpd

Nord 1500 stamina and 1000 health

Zoe are u serious??? Why nord is nerfed to the ground? Why orc is so overpowered? Orcs are ugly I don't want to play one.

I wish the difference between stats were waaay smaller. I believe 258 weapon damage as a race Stat is very high! It should be like 150 or way less.

I agree to a degree but I don't feel the problem is fixed by asking for another race to be nerfed when the other races just need a slight buff.

Colecovision

Orc should lose the 1k health and have it replaced with 5% reduction in seige cooldown time. They are big strong blacksmith types, seems like they could load a ballista just a little bit faster.

Without the 1k health it's fairly close to balanced for pve. But the people doing the parses aren't using the same health. Anyone that has every shuffled stats knows how the health translates to damage as soon as you leave glass cannon mode.

Even without the 1k health orc might end up pve meta. That's fine! But to take meta and tack on 1k health, just means be an ugly orc or be gimped. That's not fine!

Max health is not the way to solve the pvp deficit from the other races getting mag and dodge roll perks. Please balance this with a perk that doesn't change pve stam dps/solo so much.

Nevolent

Ozby wrote: »

Nevolent wrote: »

On live:

Orc 6% stamina and health

Nord 6% stamina and 9% health

On pts:

Orc 2000 stamina and 1000 health + 258 wpd

Nord 1500 stamina and 1000 health

Zoe are u serious??? Why nord is nerfed to the ground? Why orc is so overpowered? Orcs are ugly I don't want to play one.

I wish the difference between stats were waaay smaller. I believe 258 weapon damage as a race Stat is very high! It should be like 150 or way less.

I agree to a degree but I don't feel the problem is fixed by asking for another race to be nerfed when the other races just need a slight buff.

That would be a good alternative but I would prefer that passives were insignificant and just give a minor flavor to your characters.

I wish it was smth like +1% physical damage or Magick and then everyone being good in smth different like orc better on sprinting wood elf better for roll dodging nord better for blocking and defense and then all races should have some kind of resistance.
I don't know why I type this stuff, it will never happen

Just tone down a little dunmer and orc dmg and healing too high for passives it's like 2 set pieces +125 +125

And poor wood elfs should have armor and magic penetration as passive at all times. I don't understand how u can hit with more precision after u roll dodge lol, you should be dizzy.

Strider__Roshin

Nevolent wrote: »

On live:

Orc 6% stamina and health

Nord 6% stamina and 9% health

On pts:

Orc 2000 stamina and 1000 health + 258 wpd

Nord 1500 stamina and 1000 health

Zoe are u serious??? Why nord is nerfed to the ground? Why orc is so overpowered? Orcs are ugly I don't want to play one.

I wish the difference between stats were waaay smaller. I believe 258 weapon damage as a race Stat is very high! It should be like 150 or way less.

Yeah Nords are garbage next update. It's really disheartening honestly. I haven't even logged in the past couple of weeks because of it.

Wolfahm

most of the racials are two set bonus.. for w/e reason ZOS deemed khajiit crit OP ( 4%+4% when it was not)


129+129 =258 Damage Race passive.
4%crit+4%crit = khajiit old passive that was fine. People over reacting to shadow buff caused a jerk reaction nerf to the race.

8% crit chance had better utility for low crit set ups in other parts of the game outside pve dps ( tank/healer/pvp ) (ADAPTABLE RACE )

Why 10% crit dmg is to low
It is the only dmg racial that scales poorly in Trial groups and is not at a level high enough to change mundus stones to do the same thing in a different way as a orc/altmer/dunmer(258dmg+19%crit dmg shadow with 7 div)
14-15% for khajiit passive + thief/apprentice/warrior would offer a better scaling in groups like the other dmg races.

alexj4596b14_ESO

Daus wrote: »

Nevolent wrote: »

On live:

Orc 6% stamina and health

Nord 6% stamina and 9% health

On pts:

Orc 2000 stamina and 1000 health + 258 wpd

Nord 1500 stamina and 1000 health

Zoe are u serious??? Why nord is nerfed to the ground? Why orc is so overpowered? Orcs are ugly I don't want to play one.

I wish the difference between stats were waaay smaller. I believe 258 weapon damage as a race Stat is very high! It should be like 150 or way less.

Yeah Nords are garbage next update. It's really disheartening honestly. I haven't even logged in the past couple of weeks because of it.

I dont really understand the issue, Orcs went offensive and Nords went defensive. General speaking orcs are typically offensive...that whole orc rage thing...

phantasmalD

alexj4596b14_ESO wrote: »

Daus wrote: »

Nevolent wrote: »

On live:

Orc 6% stamina and health

Nord 6% stamina and 9% health

On pts:

Orc 2000 stamina and 1000 health + 258 wpd

Nord 1500 stamina and 1000 health

Zoe are u serious??? Why nord is nerfed to the ground? Why orc is so overpowered? Orcs are ugly I don't want to play one.

I wish the difference between stats were waaay smaller. I believe 258 weapon damage as a race Stat is very high! It should be like 150 or way less.

Yeah Nords are garbage next update. It's really disheartening honestly. I haven't even logged in the past couple of weeks because of it.

I dont really understand the issue, Orcs went offensive and Nords went defensive. General speaking orcs are typically offensive...that whole orc rage thing...

The berserk ability is supposed to be a short(60s) temporary boost to combat abilities, not constant high damage

Nords and Orcs were really similar in the older games, but Orcs were slightly more defensive with the ability to go super saiyan for a minute while Nords were the lightly dressed battle axe wielding barbarians with slightly higher strength and the ability to go extra bulky for a minute (they had a racial shield ability, increasing their armor rating (they also had an on-touch racial frost spell btw))

Orcs are renowned for their heavy armor craftmanship while Nords are known for getting into drunken brawls.

So it was kinda the other way around in the older games, tho the racials ZoS came up kinda works?!


Fun fact: Orcs were one of the slowest and least agile race in previous games with -10 Speed and -5 Agility

technohic

phantasmalD wrote: »

alexj4596b14_ESO wrote: »

Daus wrote: »

Nevolent wrote: »

On live:

Orc 6% stamina and health

Nord 6% stamina and 9% health

On pts:

Orc 2000 stamina and 1000 health + 258 wpd

Nord 1500 stamina and 1000 health

Zoe are u serious??? Why nord is nerfed to the ground? Why orc is so overpowered? Orcs are ugly I don't want to play one.

I wish the difference between stats were waaay smaller. I believe 258 weapon damage as a race Stat is very high! It should be like 150 or way less.

Yeah Nords are garbage next update. It's really disheartening honestly. I haven't even logged in the past couple of weeks because of it.

I dont really understand the issue, Orcs went offensive and Nords went defensive. General speaking orcs are typically offensive...that whole orc rage thing...

The berserk ability is supposed to be a short(60s) temporary boost to combat abilities, not constant high damage

Nords and Orcs were really similar in the older games, but Orcs were slightly more defensive with the ability to go super saiyan for a minute while Nords were the lightly dressed battle axe wielding barbarians with the ability to go extra bulky for a minute (they had a racial shield ability, increasing their armor rating (they also had an on-touch racial frost spell btw))

Orcs are renowned for their heavy armor craftmanship while Nords are known for getting into drunken brawls.

So it was actually the other way around in the older games.


Fun fact: Orcs were one of the slowest and least agile race in previous games with -10 Speed and -5 Agility

Not that far off it seems. A nord in medium armor will have similar weapon damage, sustain, sprint speed, and armor as an Orc in heavy. Resource pool is a little off though

Malada

Nevolent wrote: »

On live:

Orc 6% stamina and health

Nord 6% stamina and 9% health

On pts:

Orc 2000 stamina and 1000 health + 258 wpd

Nord 1500 stamina and 1000 health

Zoe are u serious??? Why nord is nerfed to the ground? Why orc is so overpowered? Orcs are ugly I don't want to play one.

I wish the difference between stats were waaay smaller. I believe 258 weapon damage as a race Stat is very high! It should be like 150 or way less.

The simple fact of the matter is that both Orc and Nord have had issues with their passives for a long time due to the way dmg types are calculated.

The truth of the matter is Nords actually are getting a nerf and in another way are coming out ahead. If Nords are supposed to have a resistDmg variable like seen in Oblivion, then it would be a simple matter of reaching the mitigation or cap or doing your homework and making simple changes to your build to increase your mitigation. Then you'd have dmgResist and good mitigation. The problem is virtually no one outside the forums understands how this works. It's my understanding though, the way the Nord resistDmg was being calculated was after everything else resulting in very performance from it's resistDmg passive.

Orcs on the other hand had good stats however they was plagued with issues resulting from the Melee Dmg Variable and their Sprint Bonus getting washed down due to other move speed calculations. So, both races really have suffered performance issues for some time.

The biggest problem here however is that now we are specing races to builds. While this is something I do, most players don't understand how to do this properly, you know to maximize gains. Hell, this UI is so primitive it's nearly impossible to tell where the numbers are really coming from or going to. Specing races like they're doing now does help those of us who want a spec build however it also kills alot of creativity. That was the beauty in those percentile values, it brought more diversity to the builds themselves cause ppl could pursue things like Fire Dmg or Melee Dmg or whatever and these distinct value types themselves made the build because the build was all about them. Very soon it's going to be all about numbers stacked and groups and labeled.

Now here's another thought. Is it me or does it seem odd how much the new Nord passives resemble the "Blood Spawn" set? Or Bosmer passives resemble "Way of Air" Set? Or Dunmer resembles "Shacklebreaker"? That's kinda like what I was saying earlier, I'm not against them making changes it just seems so unusual that such a large part of the ESO races are getting so many nice new passives and other races like Bosmer are left with a used Happy Meal.

Nevolent

The best way is to make a race tab with a talent tree where you can allocate limited points and can choose bonuses between stamina, health, magicka, weap damage, defenses or resource management.

Plus a little smth special to the specific race. Resistances for examples.

Riggsy

Nevolent wrote: »

Why orc is so overpowered? Orcs are ugly I don't want to play one.

Can we at least be able to modify our "Racial Skin" like with armor so I can keep my Imperial looking character after I change his race to Orc?

Malada

Riggsy wrote: »

Nevolent wrote: »

Why orc is so overpowered? Orcs are ugly I don't want to play one.

Can we at least be able to modify our "Racial Skin" like with armor so I can keep my Imperial looking character after I change his race to Orc?

Interesting hah

What I also find interesting is how so many ppl want to change their characters now.

Something... something seems very wrong about that but wtf ever.

Malada

I was asked to clarify my above qoute:

Basically all I'm saying is this ~

If I goto College or to some Certification Course, any educational program I am going to do the following:

- Choose my program of study
- Put in the time and resources to pay for those hours
- Complete any Challenges in the form of things like tests or quizzes to prove my understanding

How does this apply here?

If each race is supposedly distinct and different (like in other games), then that basically means in a race lineup, we will choose those races who we can most relate to and eventually move on to the ones we don't like.

However, it just seems funny to me to put in so much time in learning and experiencing the game with a race and then... now we have to just give them up because they've 'changed'. Kinda like your favorite tool in woodshop was a sledgehammer or otherwise heavy blunt instruments without a lot of mass and then the instructor comes along one morning and tells everyone they need to start using a flat head screwdriver to fulfill the purpose of a Hammer.

As for the apology thing above, some took issue with however I admit one issue there is accurately assessing blame. And what good would that do however I do not retract that statement as my hard earned dollars and time and YOURS have all basically been flushed down the proverbial toilet it seems. And I have yet to see one representative from any team come to this forum or any other and answer to some of our concerns.

I can only imagine how long I would have my job if I played that game with my customers and others who have placed their trust and money both in me and in the business to be there for them.

Nevolent

Malada I am sorry but your analogy is bad. A more accurate would be in a case of a sledgehammer - someone comes and make it 10 times heavier plus curved and shows you another hammer which would also be lighter with better handle and stronger . Would you still use your old hammer? I don't think so... That's why everyone except orcs and dark elfs will change races.

And then zos will nerf them just to troll us.

Malada

Nevolent wrote: »

Malada I am sorry but your analogy is bad. A more accurate would be in a case of a sledgehammer - someone comes and make it 10 times heavier plus curved and shows you another hammer which would also be lighter with better handle and stronger . Would you still use your old hammer? I don't think so... That's why everyone except orcs and dark elfs will change races.

And then zos will nerf them just to troll us.

Hah

You have to remember something though ~ That 'old hammer' is mine. I used that hammer for a reason and it did it's job to a T therefore no need to fix what ain't broken.

Secondly, did they improve the hammer... for me... for them... for regulations... how and why was it improved? For example, one thing I remember distinctly from college was how publishing companies would always produce uhh -new editions- of the same material. Almost exact same material in a new version number and a $200 price tag.

Although you're right at the end there, everyone switches over then they find a new method of applying the dmg enhancement and then the 258 buffs are no longer 'needed'.

BlueRaven

Nevolent wrote: »

Malada I am sorry but your analogy is bad. A more accurate would be in a case of a sledgehammer - someone comes and make it 10 times heavier plus curved and shows you another hammer which would also be lighter with better handle and stronger . Would you still use your old hammer? I don't think so... That's why everyone except orcs and dark elfs will change races.

And then zos will nerf them just to troll us.

I can’t say I agree.

There are artists and craft people who will stick with their favorite tools, even if they get old and worn.

Now if a tool supply person were to come in and break their tools offering replacements. Some will try to work with the broken old ones, some might gladly accept the new ones, and a third set might take the new ones, but resent the person who broke the old tools.

That’s what I am seeing here with the race restructuring. Their will be people who will gladly switch races, but the ones that have developed an emotional attachment to their old characters may not switch, or switch and resent it.

Nevolent

I have also developed an emotional attachment with my characters and I don't want to switch, but I know that if I don't it will bug me a lot because I don't like being in disadvantage. Well ofc some ppl don't care about racials and I wish I didn't either but I do and if I stay with my inferior race it will haunt me.

I am an artist myself I draw a lot and if someone broke my tools I wouldn't use the broken ones... I would go buy new tools, same as my old ones! No one would use broken tools guys if he could buy new.

And this my friends can't be done in the game.

Ps. Malada ofc everything is about money and profit.

And I think we are off topic.

Arciris