Tenetomb wrote: »

Hi folks !

I was curious about who was the top dps between Khajit and Orc, with a high crit chance and as i kept finding conflictual datas, i decided to do the maths by myself.

So, for this test, i used values from Build Editor (for character stats) and Skill Browser for the tooltip.

I did the maths on a stamblade, using only damage from "Surprise attack" as a reference (results will be similar on spells that can crit) and different Mundus (Lover, Warrior and Shadow) for both races.
Major Brutality and Savagery, Minor force and savagery and an infused weapon damage enchantment were treated as active during these tests.
I did not take any damage buff into account because they would just be multipliers equal between races. So, pointless.

The formula used is pretty simple : Average damage = Tooltip * (1 + Critical chance * Crit modifier)
So, for example, on the Shadow Orc with Warhorn, formula is : 18199 = 9112 * (1 + 83.8/100 * 119/100)

My build was :

- For the Lover : 2 Velidreth, 5 Relequen, 5 Yokeda. 2 daggers (off-hand with precise trait) and 57 Precise strikes 34 Piercing => 87.3% crit chance
- For the Warrior and the Shadow : 2 Kra'gh's, 5 Relequen, 5 Yokeda. 2 daggers (off-Hand with Sharpened trait) and 34 Precise strikes 57 Piercing => 83.8% crit chance

So here are the average damages of a Surprise attack :

Warrior : Khajit = 15819 / Orc = 16027
Lover : Khajit = 15885 / Orc = 16139
Shadow : Khajit = 16182 / Orc = 16531

As you can see, the Shadow beats the other Mundus and Orc beats Khajit in every scenario.

Then, i wanted to try with a Warhorn active (10% max stam + Major Force) :

Khajit = 17778 / Orc = 18199

Orc still wins without surprise.

Problem is : i think that Khajit should win by a slight margin when looking at crits because it's not a reliable dps source and bonus from max stam that Orc and Dunmer have applies to everything that doesn't crit too (even on backbar, where we lose a lot of crit) so, in the end, they should still win the dps race.

To match the damage an Orc can do with Warhorn, Khajit should get + 16% crit damage from his racial bonus (He would deal 18208 on the Surprise attack), which is too much and would cause an imbalance with other races i didn't spoke about.

My suggestion is : Lower the max stam bonus Orc and Dunmer have to 1000 and Rise the bonus Khajit has to 14% critical damage.

This way, the damage would be a lot more balanced : Khajit = 18065 / Orc/Dunmer = 17927.
(And, if you asked yourselves, keeping 10% crit on Khajit and lowering Orc/Dunmer max stam to 500 isn't enough. They would still hit for 17791. So, just a little bit more than Khajit).

I hope you devs will take this into consideration !

@ZOS_Gilliam (as i know you love maths )

Tenetomb wrote: »

twing1_ wrote: »

If you want Khajit to parse higher than orc, take some points out of precise strikes and distribute them elsewhere (ex/ mighty and thaumaturge)

The problem is you are using cp optimized better for orc, and not for Khajit. Khajit's bonus critical damage allows you to not spec so heavily into cps that increase critical damage further, giving you more cp to spec into other stats.

Previously you did not have to take this into account because Khajit had critical chance, and not critical damage. But now it has changed, and as such truly min/maxed builds are forced to build around it

In the best setup (with the Shadow), i only have 34 points in Precise strikes.
I could take them out but as nearly everything is already capped, best i can do is gain 4% more dot damage and 10% more on light attacks. I don't think this will allow Khajit to keep up with Orc. And even more, as 34 points in precise strikes give me 14% more crit damage, i think it would be a loss to take them out for this...

And at the same time, Orc can also do some changes : i treated him with 2 daggers but he can afford to swap a dagger for an axe, gaining even more single target dps with the dot.

So, no, really, i can look at it the way that i want, Orc will parse better.

susmitds wrote: »

Just split the current bonus between Crit chance and damage and maybe call it a day.

It wouldn't even be enough. On the Shadow Warhorn setup, we would deal 17950.
Anyway, it's not a bad solution but even this way, we can't avoid an Orc / Dunmer nerf.