Time To Fix Heavy Armor Meta

Rianai

Imo the reason why heavy is better than medium (and to some extent light) is that passive defense simply works better in a laggy and buggy enviroment. Medium and light (unless using defensive sets to "imitate" a heavy armor playstyle) is more based on (re)active defense - and that's not something you can rely on in a game with plenty of lag, skill delay, missing sound and visual cues, desyncs, buggy cc and so on. And since this isn't going to change, i don't see a way to improve medium and light without adding more passive mitigation and basically turing those into heavy armor 2.0. But then what's the point in having different armor types?

zyk

In a head to head fight, the extra offense and recovery provided by medium and light is completely offset by the mitigation, heals and health of heavy armor.

If two equal players fight, one in heavy and one in medium, the player in heavy will win every single time.

I get the feeling the players defending heavy only surf and/or gank. If you fight good players in strong builds head to head in medium, you're going to be in for a rough ride.

I'm not criticizing surfing or ganking, but if that's only what someone does, their pov will be different.

The exception is NB because they have the ability to reset fights relatively easily.

Light armor is different because of healing ward and shield stacks, but not for long. Even still, there is far less room for error in light than heavy.

Nicko_Lps

Sun7dance wrote: »

The easiest way to make middle ‎armor competitive is to move momentum into the middle armor tree and shuffle goes to two-handed.

How about give penetrations too in medium armor+increased healing+block cost reduction ?

Lets talk more about Elder Stamina Online wet dreams, i love the subject.

Tarrocan

the only Big Big Problems are this million of sets in this game and people complaining about the armor passives ? ZOS will balance this Game rly soon i mean look at this forum! There 90% nerf this and that, i never saw so much sht threads in eso Forum as in this year.

StamWhipCultist

SilverPaws wrote: »

Illuvatarr wrote: »

Gnozo wrote: »

Illuvatarr wrote: »

Gnozo wrote: »

ezio45 wrote: »

Its time to do something about heavy armor builds with high damage, Players in 5-7 heavy shouldnt be able to take players in light or medium armor.

A great way to do this without effecting heavy armor healer? Add to battle spirit that every piece of heavy armor after 1 reduces spell and physical pen by 3k ish

At 3k reduced pen a player wearing 5 pc of heavy will be down 15k pen and thats the average amount of penetration you can get out of heavy armor build. They wont be able to kill anything, which is how TANKS SHOULD BE . Bleed and oblivion dmg might still be a problem but this should do a decent job of fixing things.

Heavy healers will be fine because pen doesnt effect heals

So i loose 3k pen by going 5-2-0?

Anyway, heavy is strong yes cause with 7th and Fury you can get pretty decent weapon damage but 0 sustain. You need to sustain with heavy attacks. If your enemy is at least a bit competetive it just takes him a right click to delete your sustain.

I wouldnt say nerf heavy. I would say buff light and medium armor to bring them to a point where they offer more sustain and damage then heavy. Heavy should still be a viable option and not made 100% useless with your suggested Change.

Heavy armor is one of the last Tools for solo/smallscale players they can utilize to survive masses of brainless zerglings.

Gnozo wrote: »

ezio45 wrote: »

Its time to do something about heavy armor builds with high damage, Players in 5-7 heavy shouldnt be able to take players in light or medium armor.

A great way to do this without effecting heavy armor healer? Add to battle spirit that every piece of heavy armor after 1 reduces spell and physical pen by 3k ish

At 3k reduced pen a player wearing 5 pc of heavy will be down 15k pen and thats the average amount of penetration you can get out of heavy armor build. They wont be able to kill anything, which is how TANKS SHOULD BE . Bleed and oblivion dmg might still be a problem but this should do a decent job of fixing things.

Heavy healers will be fine because pen doesnt effect heals

So i loose 3k pen by going 5-2-0?

Anyway, heavy is strong yes cause with 7th and Fury you can get pretty decent weapon damage but 0 sustain. You need to sustain with heavy attacks. If your enemy is at least a bit competetive it just takes him a right click to delete your sustain.

I wouldnt say nerf heavy. I would say buff light and medium armor to bring them to a point where they offer more sustain and damage then heavy. Heavy should still be a viable option and not made 100% useless with your suggested Change.

Heavy armor is one of the last Tools for solo/smallscale players they can utilize to survive masses of brainless zerglings.

Gnozo wrote: »

ezio45 wrote: »

Its time to do something about heavy armor builds with high damage, Players in 5-7 heavy shouldnt be able to take players in light or medium armor.

A great way to do this without effecting heavy armor healer? Add to battle spirit that every piece of heavy armor after 1 reduces spell and physical pen by 3k ish

At 3k reduced pen a player wearing 5 pc of heavy will be down 15k pen and thats the average amount of penetration you can get out of heavy armor build. They wont be able to kill anything, which is how TANKS SHOULD BE . Bleed and oblivion dmg might still be a problem but this should do a decent job of fixing things.

Heavy healers will be fine because pen doesnt effect heals

So i loose 3k pen by going 5-2-0?

Anyway, heavy is strong yes cause with 7th and Fury you can get pretty decent weapon damage but 0 sustain. You need to sustain with heavy attacks. If your enemy is at least a bit competetive it just takes him a right click to delete your sustain.

I wouldnt say nerf heavy. I would say buff light and medium armor to bring them to a point where they offer more sustain and damage then heavy. Heavy should still be a viable option and not made 100% useless with your suggested Change.

Heavy armor is one of the last Tools for solo/smallscale players they can utilize to survive masses of brainless zerglings.

Gnozo wrote: »

ezio45 wrote: »

Its time to do something about heavy armor builds with high damage, Players in 5-7 heavy shouldnt be able to take players in light or medium armor.

A great way to do this without effecting heavy armor healer? Add to battle spirit that every piece of heavy armor after 1 reduces spell and physical pen by 3k ish

At 3k reduced pen a player wearing 5 pc of heavy will be down 15k pen and thats the average amount of penetration you can get out of heavy armor build. They wont be able to kill anything, which is how TANKS SHOULD BE . Bleed and oblivion dmg might still be a problem but this should do a decent job of fixing things.

Heavy healers will be fine because pen doesnt effect heals

So i loose 3k pen by going 5-2-0?

Anyway, heavy is strong yes cause with 7th and Fury you can get pretty decent weapon damage but 0 sustain. You need to sustain with heavy attacks. If your enemy is at least a bit competetive it just takes him a right click to delete your sustain.

I wouldnt say nerf heavy. I would say buff light and medium armor to bring them to a point where they offer more sustain and damage then heavy. Heavy should still be a viable option and not made 100% useless with your suggested Change.

Heavy armor is one of the last Tools for solo/smallscale players they can utilize to survive masses of brainless zerglings.

Wanna take a guess why folks Zerg? Because unkillelable small scale guys in heavy armor bursting just shy of a light armor build who cannot be killed. They then come and post on the boards about how elite they are because of broken game mechanics.

No heavy armor build is unkillable. If i manage to kill these "op, heavy armor unkillable Builds" in a 1v1. Everyone should be able to do it.

These so called pugs who cry over heavy armor are the ones who use light and heavy attacks as their main source of damage and dont even use any heal if you stand in Front of them deleting their HP. They even continue heavy attacking. I am sorry but that wont get you killed anything

If you Go medium armor you are forced to rely on dodge roll to mitigate damage. And tbh, only a nightblade can make proper use of medium cause they can reset the dodge roll cooldown with cloak.

DKs are build to run heavy armor, wardens are. They are build for it. And every heavy armor build can be killed. They are not immortal. They are immortal to pugs, so is medium and light .

It requires zero skill for a DK to kill a Sorc. If you don’t use lightning staff for heavy attacks your options are limited. It takes much more skill for a Sorc to kill a DK. The fact you are even disputing the imbalance and trying to frame it any other way shows your argument is trolling or you are misled. I have deliberately been playing with one damage shield recently to prepare for the upcoming patch. It takes kiting, placement of burst and luck to kill a good DK. All they have to do is wait for me to make one mistake and leap and my entire healthbar is gone. That’s silly and imbalanced and if you aren’t aware of it maybe you are the pug. It takes zero skill to play a heavy armor meta right now and it has been that way for quite some time. Hopefully, the devs see this and you will have to actually earn your kills soon.

You should not comment on any balance changes when you are completely clueless.
If you died 1v1 to dk on magsorc they you are just bad sorry, but that's it l2p issue. Playing dk actually takes much more skill than to play sorc. But i see you are just biased because you die to dk's haha.

I agree with this.

Baconlad

Not happy until everyone's wearing medium armor, same sets, regens, weapon damage and same class. Wants Everyone to play as stamina...*** nerfcallers...

Skander

People need to understand that the meta is stamina. Not heavy armor
The meta is not having a single recovery set when using a stamina toon
The meta is being more tanky then a FRAKING MAGICKA TEMPLAR, on STAMINA NIGHTBLADE
The meta is the devs which play stamina toons

Crixus8000

Rianai wrote: »

Imo the reason why heavy is better than medium (and to some extent light) is that passive defense simply works better in a laggy and buggy enviroment. Medium and light (unless using defensive sets to "imitate" a heavy armor playstyle) is more based on (re)active defense - and that's not something you can rely on in a game with plenty of lag, skill delay, missing sound and visual cues, desyncs, buggy cc and so on. And since this isn't going to change, i don't see a way to improve medium and light without adding more passive mitigation and basically turing those into heavy armor 2.0. But then what's the point in having different armor types?

Really well said. I tried medium a lot and this was my biggest issue with it. Needing to rely much more on skill and reflexes but many times things would happen that you couldn't controll. The game is so bugged and has too many issues to rely on skill 100%. In heavy if something happens like me being unable to break free with full stam (it happens so much) at least I have more passive defence to stay in the fight. It's a shame the game is like this.

Ariades_swe

Ocelot9x wrote: »

The problem with medium is that a shuffle cast negate all the recovery benefits from passives. Otherwise I would be running medium all the time.
Also light is so much better for Magicka since the penetration passive is HUGE and that bonus itself provide more than a 5fth piece,so you can run a defensive set and light armor,having more of everything. Every mag player smallscaling with me is wearing a tanky light setup.

This guy gets it.

Ariades_swe

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Stibbons

Hvy armor pvp meta should be fixed next. Buffing light armor and maybe medium armor is the way to go.

They should make medium better for casters too.

Crixus8000

Stibbons wrote: »

Hvy armor pvp meta should be fixed next. Buffing light armor and maybe medium armor is the way to go.

They should make medium better for casters too.

So refreshing to see someone ask for a buff to something that needs buffing instead of a nerf to something else ^^

Maura_Neysa

Expert wrote: »

They're nerfing shields on sorcs because they didn't like having the combination of tanking and doing damage. Heavy armor is the same way, tanking and still doing plenty damage. So i don't see why this shouldn't be the same, if shields get nerf then make it reasonable to have a counterplay for heavy armor.

It's easier to build up resistances than it is to build up spell penetration or physical penetration. Out of how many sets providing resistances or crit resist, there's only 1 set that provides penetration. We need a balance in this ZOS, Ele Drain, spinners is not enough when tanks have 30k hp and 25-30k resistances. The best setup I could think of was working up to 17.4k spell pen, but why is it easier to rack up 30k resistances than it is to have 17.4k pentration (CP included).

If the focus is about nerfing everybody so that casual players can succeed, then you will definitely need to rework on heavy armor because everyone is using it to sustain and still do high damage thanks to your sets.

So add some tools that we can utilize that destroys 30k hp high resistance tanks, such as a set that drops their resistances or add a better version of a spinners set because that set is getting slowly outdated with newer sets.

If they want to kill Heavy Armor doing damage, than they need to also buff the Block Cost reduction and bring back the un-killable tanks.
If you want to force one or the other, then the other needs to be possible.

WreckfulAbandon

Everyone posting on here needs to get caught up with the latest patch notes. Speed pot uptime massively reduced, sources of Major Expedition nerfed, Swift nerfed, Shuffle cost reduced, medium armor damage passive increased.

Full stop. Get outta here with your complaints. Go to the PTS and test the new balance or just zip it until Nerfmire hits. There will be plenty to complain about then but as it stands now mobility from medium got massively buffed.

Maura_Neysa

WreckfulAbandon wrote: »

Everyone posting on here needs to get caught up with the latest patch notes. Speed pot uptime massively reduced, sources of Major Expedition nerfed, Swift nerfed, Shuffle cost reduced, medium armor damage passive increased.

Full stop. Get outta here with your complaints. Go to the PTS and test the new balance or just zip it until Nerfmire hits. There will be plenty to complain about then but as it stands now mobility from medium got massively buffed.

Truth

olsborg

Derra wrote: »

The culprit to heavy is the statbonus it gets imo. ZOS has managed to make health as desireable as other stats currently in the game. Which is good - generally speaking. But problematic when looking at creating optimal builds/setups.

Give light armor 1% healing done and 1% maxmagica per piece of armor worn.
Give medium 2% maxstam per piece of armor worn.

Suddenly we have no glaring stat disparity between different armor weights which would go a long way in reducing heavy being flatout more desireable for most players.

I like that, but id rather medium also got 1% stam and 1% healing recieved.

Nord_Raseri

buff medium. stop asking for nerfs.

callen4492

Why should a player in heavy armor not be able to take a player in light or medium armor? That makes no sense. Your type of armor affects your playstyle but not the outcome of the battle. Heavy armor alone in this game does not make you very tough to kill. It's investing all of your bonuses into other aspects of survivability. You should be able to use heavy armor and still make an offensive oriented player.

Olquorron

Players in heavy armour shouldn't be able to pump out as much damage as they currently do, period. In part this is due to completely broken sets, like Seventh Legion and Fury, but in other cases such as that of the heavy armour stamblade...I'm not sure what the most elegant fix would be.

That being said, I think people are sick and tired of nerfs (although those item sets mentioned above are utterly and stupidly broken). You buffed the damage on medium armour for Murkmire -- why not give light armour a buff as well?

That brings me to another point: Forward Momentum, even at 4s duration, is still ridiculously overpowered. It allows heavy armour users to have *better* mobility than magicka users wearing only cloth. How does that make any sense at all? Give Forward Momentum a percentage snare reduction. Complete immunity to roots and snares is stupidly powerful for a heavy armour build.

SilverPaws

Olquorron wrote: »

Players in heavy armour shouldn't be able to pump out as much damage as they currently do, period. In part this is due to completely broken sets, like Seventh Legion and Fury, but in other cases such as that of the heavy armour stamblade...I'm not sure what the most elegant fix would be.

That being said, I think people are sick and tired of nerfs (although those item sets mentioned above are utterly and stupidly broken). You buffed the damage on medium armour for Murkmire -- why not give light armour a buff as well?

That brings me to another point: Forward Momentum, even at 4s duration, is still ridiculously overpowered. It allows heavy armour users to have *better* mobility than magicka users wearing only cloth. How does that make any sense at all? Give Forward Momentum a percentage snare reduction. Complete immunity to roots and snares is stupidly powerful for a heavy armour build.

You are completely clueless, legion was already nerfed before and fury requires to be hit all the time so dmg can stack, both sets are balanced and are performing fine. And also why should magicka ranged should be more mobile than heavy ?
Also forward momentum is needed for stamina heavy builds, otherwise they would be just dead weight.

Nicko_Lps

SilverPaws wrote: »

Olquorron wrote: »

Players in heavy armour shouldn't be able to pump out as much damage as they currently do, period. In part this is due to completely broken sets, like Seventh Legion and Fury, but in other cases such as that of the heavy armour stamblade...I'm not sure what the most elegant fix would be.

That being said, I think people are sick and tired of nerfs (although those item sets mentioned above are utterly and stupidly broken). You buffed the damage on medium armour for Murkmire -- why not give light armour a buff as well?

That brings me to another point: Forward Momentum, even at 4s duration, is still ridiculously overpowered. It allows heavy armour users to have *better* mobility than magicka users wearing only cloth. How does that make any sense at all? Give Forward Momentum a percentage snare reduction. Complete immunity to roots and snares is stupidly powerful for a heavy armour build.

You are completely clueless, legion was already nerfed before and fury requires to be hit all the time so dmg can stack, both sets are balanced and are performing fine. And also why should magicka ranged should be more mobile than heavy ?
Also forward momentum is needed for stamina heavy builds, otherwise they would be just dead weight.

Yeah man.. Hes absolutely clueless

They are perfectly balanced sets...Since they are ONLY stamina sets, when no such sets exist for magica ITS BALANCE

SilverPaws

Magicka players biased that they canť have everything
Speed pots and mobility was nerfed, FM was nerfed what else you want ?
Cripple stamina so much that we will become crafters or what ?

SilverPaws

Mobility and FM was what made heavy strong, not these sets lol.

Nicko_Lps

SilverPaws wrote: »

Cripple stamina so much that we will become crafters or what ?

Crippled stamina players will be like 90% of murkmire Cyrodiil.


So much crippled

SilverPaws

Nicko_Lps wrote: »

SilverPaws wrote: »

Cripple stamina so much that we will become crafters or what ?

Crippled stamina players will be like 90% of murkmire Cyrodiil.


So much crippled

Maybe 90% stamina nb's

SilverPaws

Nicko_Lps wrote: »

SilverPaws wrote: »

Cripple stamina so much that we will become crafters or what ?

Crippled stamina players will be like 90% of murkmire Cyrodiil.


So much crippled

Murkmire is big nerf to stamina builds so i don't really get your complaints.

SilverPaws

Nicko_Lps wrote: »

SilverPaws wrote: »

Cripple stamina so much that we will become crafters or what ?

Crippled stamina players will be like 90% of murkmire Cyrodiil.


So much crippled

I can understand that you are angry, i know that you play magsorc and i don't agree with zenimax changes as well, but stamina players will get nerfed hard with mobility gutted.

SilverPaws

Especially stamk dk's already lacking class will get totally killed if speed pot nerf will go thought. With no reliable sources of major expedition stam dk's will be slow and free ap.

Chilly-McFreeze

SilverPaws wrote: »

Especially stamk dk's already lacking class will get totally killed if speed pot nerf will go thought. With no reliable sources of major expedition stam dk's will be slow and free ap.

Could you make a list of stam class major expedition sources?
And a list of stam class sources of snare removal? But yes, mE pot nerfs will hit stam classes hard, at leas those outside of bigger groups.

Izaki

How to fix heavy armor? Make sets like Seventh Legion, Armor Of Truth, Ravager, etc. medium armor. Boom. Nothing interesting left in heavy armor for dealing damage.