Time To Fix Heavy Armor Meta
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ezio45✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Maura_Neysa wrote: »Its time to do something about heavy armor builds with high damage, Players in 5-7 heavy shouldnt be able to take players in light or medium armor.
A great way to do this without effecting heavy armor healer? Add to battle spirit that every piece of heavy armor after 1 reduces spell and physical pen by 3k ish
At 3k reduced pen a player wearing 5 pc of heavy will be down 15k pen and thats the average amount of penetration you can get out of heavy armor build. They wont be able to kill anything, which is how TANKS SHOULD BE . Bleed and oblivion dmg might still be a problem but this should do a decent job of fixing things.
Heavy healers will be fine because pen doesnt effect heals
Holy :facepalm: just no, Heavy Armor doesn't mean zero damage. Heavy Armor damage Player are completely valid. Heavy Armor damage sets exist, so do Heavy Armor defensive sets. If you run defensive sets you wont kill anything, Heartland, Durok's, Ward. Or you can run something in between like Blackrose, or run something offensive like Ravager and 7th. The same way if you run Light Fortified Brass, you will also be lacking in damage
Second, there are huge Armor changes coming, so you might even have already got your wish without this idiotic idea.
So you feel that its just fine that players with 30k resist are able to have the exact same pen and dmg as a player in light or meduim
So if I assume correctly, you would be against medium/light armor builds being able to reach way above resistance cap and having high damage?? I´m seriously asking, not mocking you or anything
ya, i dont really see that but if a light or medium build can hit 35k resist that probably needs adjusting and should be looked into. Most light medium builds i see have around 10-15k resist, some medium pushes 20 but thats pretty far from 35k
33k Resist on Medium is no Problem. Even more with bloodspawn.
I made a build with 32k Resist, 2800 crit resist, 3.5k wep damage, 36k stam, 1600 stam rec .
Not the highest damage but quite tanky and next patch even more with the shuffle changes. But guess what, i am not immortal.
like ya you have resist but your sacrificing alot fot it, you dont need to sacrifice for it in heavy, thats the problem. you get good resist and are still able to get decent dmg1 -
StamWhipCultist✭✭✭✭✭Its time to do something about heavy armor builds with high damage, Players in 5-7 heavy shouldnt be able to take players in light or medium armor.
A great way to do this without effecting heavy armor healer? Add to battle spirit that every piece of heavy armor after 1 reduces spell and physical pen by 3k ish
At 3k reduced pen a player wearing 5 pc of heavy will be down 15k pen and thats the average amount of penetration you can get out of heavy armor build. They wont be able to kill anything, which is how TANKS SHOULD BE . Bleed and oblivion dmg might still be a problem but this should do a decent job of fixing things.
Heavy healers will be fine because pen doesnt effect heals
If you are scrub you should be game ended by ppl in heavy armor ez.
L2P3 -
Wuuffyy✭✭✭✭✭
✭These mag builds be complaining about HA yet they have an innate 20% pen for all abilities plus 10%
from destro abilities. TFWuuffyy,
WW/berserker playstyle advocate (I play ALL classes proficiently in PvP outside of WW as well)
ESO player since 2014 (Xbox and PC for PTS)
-DM for questions2 -
ezio45✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Wolf_Watching wrote: »These mag builds be complaining about HA yet they have an innate 20% pen for all abilities plus 10%
from destro abilities. TF
the destro passive sucks, there isnt any good abilities from that for pvp and non destro abilities dont benefit from it0 -
Wuuffyy✭✭✭✭✭
✭You all need to hop on another game! It’s the Elder Vigors Online now.Wuuffyy,
WW/berserker playstyle advocate (I play ALL classes proficiently in PvP outside of WW as well)
ESO player since 2014 (Xbox and PC for PTS)
-DM for questions2 -
Qbiken✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Maura_Neysa wrote: »Its time to do something about heavy armor builds with high damage, Players in 5-7 heavy shouldnt be able to take players in light or medium armor.
A great way to do this without effecting heavy armor healer? Add to battle spirit that every piece of heavy armor after 1 reduces spell and physical pen by 3k ish
At 3k reduced pen a player wearing 5 pc of heavy will be down 15k pen and thats the average amount of penetration you can get out of heavy armor build. They wont be able to kill anything, which is how TANKS SHOULD BE . Bleed and oblivion dmg might still be a problem but this should do a decent job of fixing things.
Heavy healers will be fine because pen doesnt effect heals
Holy :facepalm: just no, Heavy Armor doesn't mean zero damage. Heavy Armor damage Player are completely valid. Heavy Armor damage sets exist, so do Heavy Armor defensive sets. If you run defensive sets you wont kill anything, Heartland, Durok's, Ward. Or you can run something in between like Blackrose, or run something offensive like Ravager and 7th. The same way if you run Light Fortified Brass, you will also be lacking in damage
Second, there are huge Armor changes coming, so you might even have already got your wish without this idiotic idea.
So you feel that its just fine that players with 30k resist are able to have the exact same pen and dmg as a player in light or meduim
So if I assume correctly, you would be against medium/light armor builds being able to reach way above resistance cap and having high damage?? I´m seriously asking, not mocking you or anything
ya, i dont really see that but if a light or medium build can hit 35k resist that probably needs adjusting and should be looked into. Most light medium builds i see have around 10-15k resist, some medium pushes 20 but thats pretty far from 35k
I play medium armor stamplar from time to time. Atm I´m running:
5 Medium impregnable
5 Automaton
Master Dualwield
Bloodspawn
Highest achievable resistance I´ve been able to reach (Bloodspawn + Remembrance + Standing inside runed focus) is 40k+. When looking at my combat metrics summary after longer fights I´m on an average 28-34k resistance. At the same time I sit at around 5k-ish weapon damage (with automaton included). Add 5k+ critresistance on top of all this and you´re really difficult to kill. Only small downside with stamplar (I´m an imperial as well) is the sustain, but that will get buffed with next patch anyway.
So on certain classes/setups it´s easy to achieve tankiness and damage, nothing exclusive for heavy armor :P2 -
Wuuffyy✭✭✭✭✭
✭Most heavy builds have 20-25. That’s pretty closed
To 18k buffed medWuuffyy,
WW/berserker playstyle advocate (I play ALL classes proficiently in PvP outside of WW as well)
ESO player since 2014 (Xbox and PC for PTS)
-DM for questions1 -
Wuuffyy✭✭✭✭✭
✭Might be an l2p issue TBHWuuffyy,
WW/berserker playstyle advocate (I play ALL classes proficiently in PvP outside of WW as well)
ESO player since 2014 (Xbox and PC for PTS)
-DM for questions4 -
Gnozo✭✭✭✭✭
✭Maura_Neysa wrote: »Its time to do something about heavy armor builds with high damage, Players in 5-7 heavy shouldnt be able to take players in light or medium armor.
A great way to do this without effecting heavy armor healer? Add to battle spirit that every piece of heavy armor after 1 reduces spell and physical pen by 3k ish
At 3k reduced pen a player wearing 5 pc of heavy will be down 15k pen and thats the average amount of penetration you can get out of heavy armor build. They wont be able to kill anything, which is how TANKS SHOULD BE . Bleed and oblivion dmg might still be a problem but this should do a decent job of fixing things.
Heavy healers will be fine because pen doesnt effect heals
Holy :facepalm: just no, Heavy Armor doesn't mean zero damage. Heavy Armor damage Player are completely valid. Heavy Armor damage sets exist, so do Heavy Armor defensive sets. If you run defensive sets you wont kill anything, Heartland, Durok's, Ward. Or you can run something in between like Blackrose, or run something offensive like Ravager and 7th. The same way if you run Light Fortified Brass, you will also be lacking in damage
Second, there are huge Armor changes coming, so you might even have already got your wish without this idiotic idea.
So you feel that its just fine that players with 30k resist are able to have the exact same pen and dmg as a player in light or meduim
So if I assume correctly, you would be against medium/light armor builds being able to reach way above resistance cap and having high damage?? I´m seriously asking, not mocking you or anything
ya, i dont really see that but if a light or medium build can hit 35k resist that probably needs adjusting and should be looked into. Most light medium builds i see have around 10-15k resist, some medium pushes 20 but thats pretty far from 35k
33k Resist on Medium is no Problem. Even more with bloodspawn.
I made a build with 32k Resist, 2800 crit resist, 3.5k wep damage, 36k stam, 1600 stam rec .
Not the highest damage but quite tanky and next patch even more with the shuffle changes. But guess what, i am not immortal.
like ya you have resist but your sacrificing alot fot it, you dont need to sacrifice for it in heavy, thats the problem. you get good resist and are still able to get decent dmg
Whats the big difference to heavy armor Builds?
Fury + 7th gives you what? Max 31k stam? 0 sustain through recovery so you rely on heavy attacks wich every class can counter by right click.
Maybe heavy can get more weapon damage with these setup but lacks Max Stamina and 1 weapon damage equals 10.5 stamina.
Heavy armor trading Sustain for Max Damage and tankiness. All they do is heavy attacking until they can ulti dump you. If you roleplay as a target dummy and dont block heavy attacks to delete their sustain, Ye. Not the fault from heavy armor....2 -
ezio45✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Maura_Neysa wrote: »Its time to do something about heavy armor builds with high damage, Players in 5-7 heavy shouldnt be able to take players in light or medium armor.
A great way to do this without effecting heavy armor healer? Add to battle spirit that every piece of heavy armor after 1 reduces spell and physical pen by 3k ish
At 3k reduced pen a player wearing 5 pc of heavy will be down 15k pen and thats the average amount of penetration you can get out of heavy armor build. They wont be able to kill anything, which is how TANKS SHOULD BE . Bleed and oblivion dmg might still be a problem but this should do a decent job of fixing things.
Heavy healers will be fine because pen doesnt effect heals
Holy :facepalm: just no, Heavy Armor doesn't mean zero damage. Heavy Armor damage Player are completely valid. Heavy Armor damage sets exist, so do Heavy Armor defensive sets. If you run defensive sets you wont kill anything, Heartland, Durok's, Ward. Or you can run something in between like Blackrose, or run something offensive like Ravager and 7th. The same way if you run Light Fortified Brass, you will also be lacking in damage
Second, there are huge Armor changes coming, so you might even have already got your wish without this idiotic idea.
So you feel that its just fine that players with 30k resist are able to have the exact same pen and dmg as a player in light or meduim
So if I assume correctly, you would be against medium/light armor builds being able to reach way above resistance cap and having high damage?? I´m seriously asking, not mocking you or anything
ya, i dont really see that but if a light or medium build can hit 35k resist that probably needs adjusting and should be looked into. Most light medium builds i see have around 10-15k resist, some medium pushes 20 but thats pretty far from 35k
I play medium armor stamplar from time to time. Atm I´m running:
5 Medium impregnable
5 Automaton
Master Dualwield
Bloodspawn
Highest achievable resistance I´ve been able to reach (Bloodspawn + Remembrance + Standing inside runed focus) is 40k+. When looking at my combat metrics summary after longer fights I´m on an average 28-34k resistance. At the same time I sit at around 5k-ish weapon damage (with automaton included). Add 5k+ critresistance on top of all this and you´re really difficult to kill. Only small downside with stamplar (I´m an imperial as well) is the sustain, but that will get buffed with next patch anyway.
So on certain classes/setups it´s easy to achieve tankiness and damage, nothing exclusive for heavy armor :P
but look at all you had to sacrifice for it..... monster set, triats, champoin points and even thats only with the active biffs1 -
IZZEFlameLash✭✭✭✭✭
✭This is l2p issue really at its core. Yes, stam HA builds can hit hard because of sets. Without those sets, there's like nothing to fear from HA builds. However, it is very easy to stack mitigation even in MA with certain setup while retaining generally high damage without waiting for proc in MA.Imperials, the one and true masters of all mortal races of Tamriel5 -
Sun7dance✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭IZZEFlameLash wrote: »This is l2p issue really at its core. Yes, stam HA builds can hit hard because of sets. Without those sets, there's like nothing to fear from HA builds. However, it is very easy to stack mitigation even in MA with certain setup while retaining generally high damage without waiting for proc in MA.
You don't need to nerf heavy, you just have to make sure that players have a choice between middle and heavy.
Look, why magickas want to play light? Because of the passives! 5k pen is a huuuuuge argument!
But why should staminas play middle? There is no incentive!
PS5|EU0 -
Qbiken✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Maura_Neysa wrote: »Its time to do something about heavy armor builds with high damage, Players in 5-7 heavy shouldnt be able to take players in light or medium armor.
A great way to do this without effecting heavy armor healer? Add to battle spirit that every piece of heavy armor after 1 reduces spell and physical pen by 3k ish
At 3k reduced pen a player wearing 5 pc of heavy will be down 15k pen and thats the average amount of penetration you can get out of heavy armor build. They wont be able to kill anything, which is how TANKS SHOULD BE . Bleed and oblivion dmg might still be a problem but this should do a decent job of fixing things.
Heavy healers will be fine because pen doesnt effect heals
Holy :facepalm: just no, Heavy Armor doesn't mean zero damage. Heavy Armor damage Player are completely valid. Heavy Armor damage sets exist, so do Heavy Armor defensive sets. If you run defensive sets you wont kill anything, Heartland, Durok's, Ward. Or you can run something in between like Blackrose, or run something offensive like Ravager and 7th. The same way if you run Light Fortified Brass, you will also be lacking in damage
Second, there are huge Armor changes coming, so you might even have already got your wish without this idiotic idea.
So you feel that its just fine that players with 30k resist are able to have the exact same pen and dmg as a player in light or meduim
So if I assume correctly, you would be against medium/light armor builds being able to reach way above resistance cap and having high damage?? I´m seriously asking, not mocking you or anything
ya, i dont really see that but if a light or medium build can hit 35k resist that probably needs adjusting and should be looked into. Most light medium builds i see have around 10-15k resist, some medium pushes 20 but thats pretty far from 35k
I play medium armor stamplar from time to time. Atm I´m running:
5 Medium impregnable
5 Automaton
Master Dualwield
Bloodspawn
Highest achievable resistance I´ve been able to reach (Bloodspawn + Remembrance + Standing inside runed focus) is 40k+. When looking at my combat metrics summary after longer fights I´m on an average 28-34k resistance. At the same time I sit at around 5k-ish weapon damage (with automaton included). Add 5k+ critresistance on top of all this and you´re really difficult to kill. Only small downside with stamplar (I´m an imperial as well) is the sustain, but that will get buffed with next patch anyway.
So on certain classes/setups it´s easy to achieve tankiness and damage, nothing exclusive for heavy armor :P
but look at all you had to sacrifice for it..... monster set, triats, champoin points and even thats only with the active biffs
I don´t really see it as a sacrifice to be honest.- Bloodspawn is an amazing set for stamplar. It gives everything the class need (stamina sustain, resistance and more ultimate) and synergise very well with the latest changes to rune focus.
- Impregnable is easily in the top 3 of when it comes to best defensive sets. Sitting at 5k + crit resistance is more or less a necessity with all nightblades around. Even with the nerfs to impregnable next patch, it´s still an overperforming set.
- Automaton is replaceable for another weapon damage set, but it works for me
As I said, the only thing this build lacks is a bit of sustain. But that will be solved next patch with the changes to rune focus (it gives stamina recovery just by activating it).1 -
lucky_dutch✭✭✭✭Wolf_Watching wrote: »These mag builds be complaining about HA yet they have an innate 20% pen for all abilities plus 10%
from destro abilities. TF
I've noticed you really seem to not understand the idea of "relative balance".
The issue is that heavy armor have vastly superior survivability with extremely limited trade-off when it comes to damage. This is made even worse now that light armor survivability has fallen even further.
So heavy armor characters are OP because of their relative strength to medium and light armor builds.
The major evasion change should help a little though as most heavy armor builds rely on aoe damage (sub assault, hurricane, steel tornado, jabs etc.)
Heavy armor will still remain dominant in murkmire though as now every mag class are theory crafting as to how they can make a heavy armor mag build work.Edited by lucky_dutch on October 5, 2018 8:10AM3 -
WreckfulAbandon✭✭✭✭✭
✭but look at all you had to sacrifice for it..... monster set, triats, champoin points and even thats only with the active biffs
Trust me its not really a sacrifice. My medium armor stamplar has similar stats to the one posted above and it's definitely a great brawler build. Damage, sustain, heals, and mobility are all good and he can chew through heavy armor. No qualitative advantage for going heavy since I do a fair bit of kiting/hit and run, and the damage/crit medium provides plays into it. 7 medium, plenty of mitigation and heals, and no regrets.
Is the healing received/health regen passive on heavy strong? When you build for it, absolutely. Probably a bit stronger than medium/light overall. But medium and light will always have greater raw killing power and other options for survival. Light misses out on the great heavy sets but medium can still run them with 0 heavy.PC NA
All my comments are regarding PvP1 -
Sun7dance✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Maura_Neysa wrote: »Its time to do something about heavy armor builds with high damage, Players in 5-7 heavy shouldnt be able to take players in light or medium armor.
A great way to do this without effecting heavy armor healer? Add to battle spirit that every piece of heavy armor after 1 reduces spell and physical pen by 3k ish
At 3k reduced pen a player wearing 5 pc of heavy will be down 15k pen and thats the average amount of penetration you can get out of heavy armor build. They wont be able to kill anything, which is how TANKS SHOULD BE . Bleed and oblivion dmg might still be a problem but this should do a decent job of fixing things.
Heavy healers will be fine because pen doesnt effect heals
Holy :facepalm: just no, Heavy Armor doesn't mean zero damage. Heavy Armor damage Player are completely valid. Heavy Armor damage sets exist, so do Heavy Armor defensive sets. If you run defensive sets you wont kill anything, Heartland, Durok's, Ward. Or you can run something in between like Blackrose, or run something offensive like Ravager and 7th. The same way if you run Light Fortified Brass, you will also be lacking in damage
Second, there are huge Armor changes coming, so you might even have already got your wish without this idiotic idea.
So you feel that its just fine that players with 30k resist are able to have the exact same pen and dmg as a player in light or meduim
So if I assume correctly, you would be against medium/light armor builds being able to reach way above resistance cap and having high damage?? I´m seriously asking, not mocking you or anything
ya, i dont really see that but if a light or medium build can hit 35k resist that probably needs adjusting and should be looked into. Most light medium builds i see have around 10-15k resist, some medium pushes 20 but thats pretty far from 35k
I play medium armor stamplar from time to time. Atm I´m running:
5 Medium impregnable
5 Automaton
Master Dualwield
Bloodspawn
Highest achievable resistance I´ve been able to reach (Bloodspawn + Remembrance + Standing inside runed focus) is 40k+. When looking at my combat metrics summary after longer fights I´m on an average 28-34k resistance. At the same time I sit at around 5k-ish weapon damage (with automaton included). Add 5k+ critresistance on top of all this and you´re really difficult to kill. Only small downside with stamplar (I´m an imperial as well) is the sustain, but that will get buffed with next patch anyway.
So on certain classes/setups it´s easy to achieve tankiness and damage, nothing exclusive for heavy armor :P
but look at all you had to sacrifice for it..... monster set, triats, champoin points and even thats only with the active biffs
I don´t really see it as a sacrifice to be honest.- Bloodspawn is an amazing set for stamplar. It gives everything the class need (stamina sustain, resistance and more ultimate) and synergise very well with the latest changes to rune focus.
- Impregnable is easily in the top 3 of when it comes to best defensive sets. Sitting at 5k + crit resistance is more or less a necessity with all nightblades around. Even with the nerfs to impregnable next patch, it´s still an overperforming set.
- Automaton is replaceable for another weapon damage set, but it works for me
As I said, the only thing this build lacks is a bit of sustain. But that will be solved next patch with the changes to rune focus (it gives stamina recovery just by activating it).
Do you run impreg just on your backbar? It's not possible running all these sets on both bars with master dw.
PS5|EU0 -
Qbiken✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Maura_Neysa wrote: »Its time to do something about heavy armor builds with high damage, Players in 5-7 heavy shouldnt be able to take players in light or medium armor.
A great way to do this without effecting heavy armor healer? Add to battle spirit that every piece of heavy armor after 1 reduces spell and physical pen by 3k ish
At 3k reduced pen a player wearing 5 pc of heavy will be down 15k pen and thats the average amount of penetration you can get out of heavy armor build. They wont be able to kill anything, which is how TANKS SHOULD BE . Bleed and oblivion dmg might still be a problem but this should do a decent job of fixing things.
Heavy healers will be fine because pen doesnt effect heals
Holy :facepalm: just no, Heavy Armor doesn't mean zero damage. Heavy Armor damage Player are completely valid. Heavy Armor damage sets exist, so do Heavy Armor defensive sets. If you run defensive sets you wont kill anything, Heartland, Durok's, Ward. Or you can run something in between like Blackrose, or run something offensive like Ravager and 7th. The same way if you run Light Fortified Brass, you will also be lacking in damage
Second, there are huge Armor changes coming, so you might even have already got your wish without this idiotic idea.
So you feel that its just fine that players with 30k resist are able to have the exact same pen and dmg as a player in light or meduim
So if I assume correctly, you would be against medium/light armor builds being able to reach way above resistance cap and having high damage?? I´m seriously asking, not mocking you or anything
ya, i dont really see that but if a light or medium build can hit 35k resist that probably needs adjusting and should be looked into. Most light medium builds i see have around 10-15k resist, some medium pushes 20 but thats pretty far from 35k
I play medium armor stamplar from time to time. Atm I´m running:
5 Medium impregnable
5 Automaton
Master Dualwield
Bloodspawn
Highest achievable resistance I´ve been able to reach (Bloodspawn + Remembrance + Standing inside runed focus) is 40k+. When looking at my combat metrics summary after longer fights I´m on an average 28-34k resistance. At the same time I sit at around 5k-ish weapon damage (with automaton included). Add 5k+ critresistance on top of all this and you´re really difficult to kill. Only small downside with stamplar (I´m an imperial as well) is the sustain, but that will get buffed with next patch anyway.
So on certain classes/setups it´s easy to achieve tankiness and damage, nothing exclusive for heavy armor :P
but look at all you had to sacrifice for it..... monster set, triats, champoin points and even thats only with the active biffs
I don´t really see it as a sacrifice to be honest.- Bloodspawn is an amazing set for stamplar. It gives everything the class need (stamina sustain, resistance and more ultimate) and synergise very well with the latest changes to rune focus.
- Impregnable is easily in the top 3 of when it comes to best defensive sets. Sitting at 5k + crit resistance is more or less a necessity with all nightblades around. Even with the nerfs to impregnable next patch, it´s still an overperforming set.
- Automaton is replaceable for another weapon damage set, but it works for me
As I said, the only thing this build lacks is a bit of sustain. But that will be solved next patch with the changes to rune focus (it gives stamina recovery just by activating it).
Do you run impreg just on your backbar? It's not possible running all these sets on both bars with master dw.
Impreg on body, master dual wield backbar (only damage ability here is blood craze) automaton 2 hander frontbar, so automaton is only active on one bar0 -
Trancestor✭✭✭✭✭It's time to stop with these idiotic nerf threads and instead talk about buffing things that are under performing, because then ZOS sees you people qq'ing about something needing a nerf and we all know what happens next, that thing then becomes useless.Tho if there is something that needs a nerf it's magplar HEALBOTS.
Btw Heavy armor in itself isn't over performing, if you look at the passives there's is nothing too amazing about them, it's the heavy armor sets that give huge amounts of damage, way more compared to any medium armor set, that can make Heavy armor way better. Also it's the fact that FM is a way better snare removal than shuffle, shuffle is a joke and even with the FM nerf it will still be better than using shuffle, so the answer is not to "nErF hEaVy hurr durrr" the answer is to buff Shuffle and to add equivalent medium armor sets.5 -
CritsTheBed✭✭✭✭CritsTheBed wrote: »CritsTheBed wrote: »TequilaFire wrote: »Why shouldn't a Player in heavy not be able to take a person in medium or light?
Makes no sense, are you saying that the type of armor you wear should decide a battle?
Then should a player in medium not be able to take a player in light armor?
Becuase you shouldnt be able to have 25-30k resist and 30k health and do high amounts of dps to players. As of right now there is no reason not to run heavy as a dps. A heavy armor build can be over pen'ing players, everage medium and light resist is around 15k and it is EASY to get that much penetration.
Why not? Because tanks should't be able to do dmg?
Do I have to explain you how that battle ended?
I agree that heavy should't be as mobile as medium or light, but by no way it should do less dmg per se
So everybody runs stam heavy armour 2h/dw bc of way better survivability and 7k weapon damage. And I mean everybody. 100% of the population. Because why would you gimp yourself when the copy paste 7th/fury/bs heavy armour meta is a ton better?
The point is those few sets combined with heavy are overperforming AND there are 2 other less desirable weights and a ton of sets that just sit bc why use them? Were talking about BALANCE. Damage vs survivability between 3 weights of armour and out of line sets.
bal·ance
ˈbaləns/noun: balance; plural noun: balances - condition in which different elements are equal or in the correct proportions.
And your approach to get balance is "nerf heavy"?
As I mentioned above, heavy should be less mobile than medium or light. But doing less dmg than medium? Do you really want to send heavy to Oblivion?
Yes and some heavy armour sets. Heavy armour has WAAAAY more survivability than medium or light and if youre running heavy, chances are your running 7th/fury/bs which is more damage than mag and right up there with a divines gank build. So slowing heavy down a bit wont fix much. Like Irylia said earlier, nerf the offending sets. Put some kinda of mitigation or cc immunity in med and light passives and POOF medium and light will be relevant again.
Are you kidding? The 3 types have around the same survaibility, the thing is that both, medium and light require skill, while Heavy don't, but that's all. Sure, they can hit the armor cap, but medium can do that too using Brass. Even light can get as high as 23k resistance combining Almalexia's Mercy with Alessia's Bulwark and that's without using major ward/Resolve and also they give you 2 very interesting procs (Did you know you can proc alma heal with equilibrium?)
Heavy also lacks the resource recovery the other two have and the only way to keep on battle is by receiving dmg. Use a poison that drains stam, a stun and 43 points into the siphoning CP star, and the guy is done, no way he can build stam as quick and as reliabily as medium.
You lost the second you threw in brass. Med and light needs give up a damage set to survive but heavy gets to run 7th, fury or ravager which is extremely high damage and the benefits of heavy survival. How in the world is that the same to you?0 -
John_Falstaff✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Folks, I understand that PvP is in fever of meta changes, but as I look as those threads, I keep wondering how many surprises will come from PvP land and crash land on PvE. ^^ In other words... it's scary to rely on sets - start relying on Ravager in PvE, and it will get nerfed any moment, and best one can do is time the investment with beginning of a patch to have some feeble hope that the set will survive a single cycle before turning into a pumpkin. ^^
I would suggest to convert those sets into medium (since they're clearly damage sets), but that would probably baffle no fewer people who rely on them being heavy in their 6/1 or 5/1/1 builds.0 -
ak_pvp✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Ragnaroek93 wrote: »*** lmao. Heavy is only a type of survivability, its not like other games where a tank is functionally immortal but has no damage, this game has more a mix. OK, anyone who uses shields should be able to kill someone, anyone who rolls shouldn't be able to kill someone.
See how easy it is to make blanket statements?
Light is already better for mag builds than heavy, and gets even better next patch for 3/5 mag builds. Heavy vanilla, aka for mag builds with no fancy speed buffs or high WP sets is bad as is, nerfing it blanketly is stupid. And for the most part, heavy builds are immortal, the ones that are, are useless. Bleeds/defiles/dots is possible for 7/10 specs. The problem is when they get fast and then can avoid a lot of damage whilst also being able to eat whatever hits them. Tone down that speed and you'll see exactly how weak heavy can be.
Tl;dr: L2P.
How does light armor get better than heavy next patch with the nerfs to shields and Healing Ward? Or how does medium armor get better than heavy armor when they take away Evasion? Light armor can compete with heavy if you are Argonian and after they removed the Wrath passive, but I guess that will change again with the next update.
Considering how much light and med get nerfed this update it would be just fair to nerf heavy armor as well, or buff light and med while leaving heavy how it is.
3 mag classes can forgo shields. The grace snare reduction+extra cost reduction is a buff for them. Heavy mag gets nothing. MagDK "shield" builds only use heal ward, whilst nerfed, dk still works well with black rose resto.
Medium gets better, fm is down to 4s and loses a burst heal, whilst gaining a very strong dmg reduction. Heavy has to run blade cloak to use it. Ofc heavy for stam is still better, but that doesn't mean shityy blanket nerfs.MagDK main. PC/EU @AK-ESO
Best houseknight EU.1 -
ak_pvp✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭usmcjdking wrote: »HAs problem is that is really has no weakness. Anything that's built to deal with heavy armor more often than not is more effective vs. light & medium. The only HA hard counter that I'm aware of is Maces/Mauls which scale incredibly well with HA and poorly vs. light.
A significant buff to maces/mauls might be enough to reign in HA to an acceptable degree.
Heavy has no shields, not many rolls, and for mag no mobility, (light gets some next patch with grace) weaker damage and weaker sustain.
It is completely *** by blatantly Op bleeds which heavy armour builds have nothing but healing, a la shield breaker. On live you can shield them to prevent their crits, or dodge/escape. Can't in mag heavy.
Defiled, which chews into heavy armour passives, again, can't shield, dodge, run, heavy by itself only has just mitigation+healing. And the meta bleed blades (and other builds) can take that away instantly.
So much for no weaknesses.MagDK main. PC/EU @AK-ESO
Best houseknight EU.3 -
Tonno_SenSei✭✭Lol, nerf heavy threads are just ridiculous. The HA passives are totally not op and with jewel traits change you can wear 7th, ravaging, veiled or truth in medium buffing the dmg you gain with "agility" passive. The people you're complaining about are probably better than you. Asking for nerfs here and there is not healty for the game because reduce the possibility to create various, equivalent builds.4 -
Bitmun✭✭✭Its time to do something about heavy armor builds with high damage, Players in 5-7 heavy shouldnt be able to take players in light or medium armor.
A great way to do this without effecting heavy armor healer? Add to battle spirit that every piece of heavy armor after 1 reduces spell and physical pen by 3k ish
At 3k reduced pen a player wearing 5 pc of heavy will be down 15k pen and thats the average amount of penetration you can get out of heavy armor build. They wont be able to kill anything, which is how TANKS SHOULD BE . Bleed and oblivion dmg might still be a problem but this should do a decent job of fixing things.
Heavy healers will be fine because pen doesnt effect heals
Enough nerfs. All that would make medium more useful for stam is just a better mobility/damage. For example, give Shuffle a reliable source of Major Expedition, since medium won't be viable at all without at least 80% uptime on a speed buff. Shuffle also should have a bit more stronger source of snare immunuty, than heavy (*BUFF IT, DON'T NERF FM*). Give medium additional source of pen/crit/wpd/rec.
Btw, sets like Fury/Legion/Ravager are also used in medium builds (I love them), so they don't need a nerf just because of heavy meta.1 -
Feanor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Tonno_SenSei wrote: »Lol, nerf heavy threads are just ridiculous. The HA passives are totally not op and with jewel traits change you can wear 7th, ravaging, veiled or truth in medium buffing the dmg you gain with "agility" passive. The people you're complaining about are probably better than you. Asking for nerfs here and there is not healty for the game because reduce the possibility to create various, equivalent builds.
Wearing armor sets that have getting hit as proc condition don’t really make sense when you’re running MA...besides, the problem isn’t getting the damage on MA. It’s that HA had it on top of the tankyness.
Edited by Feanor on October 5, 2018 11:23AMMain characters: Feanor the Believer - AD Altmer mSorc - AR 50 - Flawless Conqueror (PC EU)Idril Arnanor - AD Altmer mSorc - CP 217 - Stormproof (PC NA)Other characters:Necrophilius Killgood - DC Imperial NecromancerFearscales - AD Argonian Templar - Stormproof (healer)Draco Imperialis - AD Imperial DK (tank)Cabed Naearamarth - AD Dunmer mDKValirion Willowthorne - AD Bosmer stamBladeTuruna - AD Altmer magBladeKheled Zaram - AD Redguard stamDKKibil Nala - AD Redguard stamSorc - StormproofYavanna Kémentárí - AD Breton magWardenAzog gro-Ghâsh - EP Orc stamWardenVidar Drakenblød - DC Nord mDKMarquis de Peyrac - DC Breton mSorc - StormproofRawlith Khaj'ra - AD Khajiit stamWardenTu'waccah - AD Redguard StamplarAll chars 50 @ CP 1900+. Playing and enjoying PvP with RdK mostly on PC EU.1 -
SilverPaws✭✭✭✭✭Sorry, but this is totally stupid idea, it's not the heavy armor, but the bleeds and master daggers that enable these builds to work. Not heavy.. Think before post please.2 -
usmguy1234✭✭✭✭✭
✭WreckfulAbandon wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »TequilaFire wrote: »Balance is spelled b o r i n g.
Combat is all about upsetting the balance.
While very true that balance is boring. The deviations shouldn't be as drastic as seen in eso. They should maybe be 5 to 10%. Take for instance a heavy armor person will have roughly 30k resists and 30k health... while someone in medium will have 25k resists and 25k health... that's roughly a 16% difference. Pair that with heavy being able to get very close in weapon damage, max stats and decent passives and it's no wonder why it over performs. Also people need a sense of self accomplishment in a game and getting steam rolled by fotm builds =/= accomplishment. You are only driving a wedge and people wonder why cyrodiil is becoming a barren wasteland.
Oh, 16% difference you say? Kinda like medium armor will have 15% more weapon damage? Cost reduction? Roll reduction? Extra regen? Sprint boost? There are tradeoffs, and the argument is about where balance can be found with all these different attributes. Medium armor is strong in the right hands. If it had the survival of heavy it would be broken because of the passives I mentioned.
@WreckfulAbandon those were just examples. The main point is that between all armor weights there should ideally be no more that a 5 to 10 percent stat bonus. This is basic game theory.Zaghigoth- Orc Stamplar
Soul Razor- Altmer Magsorc
Les Drago- Redguard Stamdk
Eirius- Altmer Magdk
Stormifeth- Altmer Magplar
Disclaimer: My comments are a little sarcasm mixed with truth. If you can't handle that don't respond to me.0 -
SilverPaws✭✭✭✭✭Heavy is really not overperforming, and the heavy sets are fine, buff medium or interduce some better sets for it, nerfing heavy won't solve anything.
Really so many nerfs this patch and you want even more stupid nerfs.
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Tonno_SenSei✭✭Tonno_SenSei wrote: »Lol, nerf heavy threads are just ridiculous. The HA passives are totally not op and with jewel traits change you can wear 7th, ravaging, veiled or truth in medium buffing the dmg you gain with "agility" passive. The people you're complaining about are probably better than you. Asking for nerfs here and there is not healty for the game because reduce the possibility to create various, equivalent builds.
Wearing armor sets that have getting hit as proc condition don’t really make sense when you’re running MA...besides, the problem isn’t getting the damage on MA. It’s that HA had it on top of the tankyness.
yeah it's so hard to proc seventh legion in medium (lol).... Heavy Armor is not so tanky, you have a bunch of resistances more, 8% more healing recived and 2% of max health each piece. Just wearing heavy doesn't make you indestructibleEdited by Tonno_SenSei on October 5, 2018 12:28PM2