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Time To Fix Heavy Armor Meta
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Illuvatarr✭✭✭✭✭Illuvatarr wrote: »Its time to do something about heavy armor builds with high damage, Players in 5-7 heavy shouldnt be able to take players in light or medium armor.
A great way to do this without effecting heavy armor healer? Add to battle spirit that every piece of heavy armor after 1 reduces spell and physical pen by 3k ish
At 3k reduced pen a player wearing 5 pc of heavy will be down 15k pen and thats the average amount of penetration you can get out of heavy armor build. They wont be able to kill anything, which is how TANKS SHOULD BE . Bleed and oblivion dmg might still be a problem but this should do a decent job of fixing things.
Heavy healers will be fine because pen doesnt effect heals
So i loose 3k pen by going 5-2-0?
Anyway, heavy is strong yes cause with 7th and Fury you can get pretty decent weapon damage but 0 sustain. You need to sustain with heavy attacks. If your enemy is at least a bit competetive it just takes him a right click to delete your sustain.
I wouldnt say nerf heavy. I would say buff light and medium armor to bring them to a point where they offer more sustain and damage then heavy. Heavy should still be a viable option and not made 100% useless with your suggested Change.
Heavy armor is one of the last Tools for solo/smallscale players they can utilize to survive masses of brainless zerglings.Its time to do something about heavy armor builds with high damage, Players in 5-7 heavy shouldnt be able to take players in light or medium armor.
A great way to do this without effecting heavy armor healer? Add to battle spirit that every piece of heavy armor after 1 reduces spell and physical pen by 3k ish
At 3k reduced pen a player wearing 5 pc of heavy will be down 15k pen and thats the average amount of penetration you can get out of heavy armor build. They wont be able to kill anything, which is how TANKS SHOULD BE . Bleed and oblivion dmg might still be a problem but this should do a decent job of fixing things.
Heavy healers will be fine because pen doesnt effect heals
So i loose 3k pen by going 5-2-0?
Anyway, heavy is strong yes cause with 7th and Fury you can get pretty decent weapon damage but 0 sustain. You need to sustain with heavy attacks. If your enemy is at least a bit competetive it just takes him a right click to delete your sustain.
I wouldnt say nerf heavy. I would say buff light and medium armor to bring them to a point where they offer more sustain and damage then heavy. Heavy should still be a viable option and not made 100% useless with your suggested Change.
Heavy armor is one of the last Tools for solo/smallscale players they can utilize to survive masses of brainless zerglings.Its time to do something about heavy armor builds with high damage, Players in 5-7 heavy shouldnt be able to take players in light or medium armor.
A great way to do this without effecting heavy armor healer? Add to battle spirit that every piece of heavy armor after 1 reduces spell and physical pen by 3k ish
At 3k reduced pen a player wearing 5 pc of heavy will be down 15k pen and thats the average amount of penetration you can get out of heavy armor build. They wont be able to kill anything, which is how TANKS SHOULD BE . Bleed and oblivion dmg might still be a problem but this should do a decent job of fixing things.
Heavy healers will be fine because pen doesnt effect heals
So i loose 3k pen by going 5-2-0?
Anyway, heavy is strong yes cause with 7th and Fury you can get pretty decent weapon damage but 0 sustain. You need to sustain with heavy attacks. If your enemy is at least a bit competetive it just takes him a right click to delete your sustain.
I wouldnt say nerf heavy. I would say buff light and medium armor to bring them to a point where they offer more sustain and damage then heavy. Heavy should still be a viable option and not made 100% useless with your suggested Change.
Heavy armor is one of the last Tools for solo/smallscale players they can utilize to survive masses of brainless zerglings.Its time to do something about heavy armor builds with high damage, Players in 5-7 heavy shouldnt be able to take players in light or medium armor.
A great way to do this without effecting heavy armor healer? Add to battle spirit that every piece of heavy armor after 1 reduces spell and physical pen by 3k ish
At 3k reduced pen a player wearing 5 pc of heavy will be down 15k pen and thats the average amount of penetration you can get out of heavy armor build. They wont be able to kill anything, which is how TANKS SHOULD BE . Bleed and oblivion dmg might still be a problem but this should do a decent job of fixing things.
Heavy healers will be fine because pen doesnt effect heals
So i loose 3k pen by going 5-2-0?
Anyway, heavy is strong yes cause with 7th and Fury you can get pretty decent weapon damage but 0 sustain. You need to sustain with heavy attacks. If your enemy is at least a bit competetive it just takes him a right click to delete your sustain.
I wouldnt say nerf heavy. I would say buff light and medium armor to bring them to a point where they offer more sustain and damage then heavy. Heavy should still be a viable option and not made 100% useless with your suggested Change.
Heavy armor is one of the last Tools for solo/smallscale players they can utilize to survive masses of brainless zerglings.
Wanna take a guess why folks Zerg? Because unkillelable small scale guys in heavy armor bursting just shy of a light armor build who cannot be killed. They then come and post on the boards about how elite they are because of broken game mechanics.
No heavy armor build is unkillable. If i manage to kill these "op, heavy armor unkillable Builds" in a 1v1. Everyone should be able to do it.
These so called pugs who cry over heavy armor are the ones who use light and heavy attacks as their main source of damage and dont even use any heal if you stand in Front of them deleting their HP. They even continue heavy attacking. I am sorry but that wont get you killed anything
If you Go medium armor you are forced to rely on dodge roll to mitigate damage. And tbh, only a nightblade can make proper use of medium cause they can reset the dodge roll cooldown with cloak.
DKs are build to run heavy armor, wardens are. They are build for it. And every heavy armor build can be killed. They are not immortal. They are immortal to pugs, so is medium and light .
It requires zero skill for a DK to kill a Sorc. If you don’t use lightning staff for heavy attacks your options are limited. It takes much more skill for a Sorc to kill a DK. The fact you are even disputing the imbalance and trying to frame it any other way shows your argument is trolling or you are misled. I have deliberately been playing with one damage shield recently to prepare for the upcoming patch. It takes kiting, placement of burst and luck to kill a good DK. All they have to do is wait for me to make one mistake and leap and my entire healthbar is gone. That’s silly and imbalanced and if you aren’t aware of it maybe you are the pug. It takes zero skill to play a heavy armor meta right now and it has been that way for quite some time. Hopefully, the devs see this and you will have to actually earn your kills soon.5 -
SilverPaws✭✭✭✭✭Illuvatarr wrote: »Illuvatarr wrote: »Its time to do something about heavy armor builds with high damage, Players in 5-7 heavy shouldnt be able to take players in light or medium armor.
A great way to do this without effecting heavy armor healer? Add to battle spirit that every piece of heavy armor after 1 reduces spell and physical pen by 3k ish
At 3k reduced pen a player wearing 5 pc of heavy will be down 15k pen and thats the average amount of penetration you can get out of heavy armor build. They wont be able to kill anything, which is how TANKS SHOULD BE . Bleed and oblivion dmg might still be a problem but this should do a decent job of fixing things.
Heavy healers will be fine because pen doesnt effect heals
So i loose 3k pen by going 5-2-0?
Anyway, heavy is strong yes cause with 7th and Fury you can get pretty decent weapon damage but 0 sustain. You need to sustain with heavy attacks. If your enemy is at least a bit competetive it just takes him a right click to delete your sustain.
I wouldnt say nerf heavy. I would say buff light and medium armor to bring them to a point where they offer more sustain and damage then heavy. Heavy should still be a viable option and not made 100% useless with your suggested Change.
Heavy armor is one of the last Tools for solo/smallscale players they can utilize to survive masses of brainless zerglings.Its time to do something about heavy armor builds with high damage, Players in 5-7 heavy shouldnt be able to take players in light or medium armor.
A great way to do this without effecting heavy armor healer? Add to battle spirit that every piece of heavy armor after 1 reduces spell and physical pen by 3k ish
At 3k reduced pen a player wearing 5 pc of heavy will be down 15k pen and thats the average amount of penetration you can get out of heavy armor build. They wont be able to kill anything, which is how TANKS SHOULD BE . Bleed and oblivion dmg might still be a problem but this should do a decent job of fixing things.
Heavy healers will be fine because pen doesnt effect heals
So i loose 3k pen by going 5-2-0?
Anyway, heavy is strong yes cause with 7th and Fury you can get pretty decent weapon damage but 0 sustain. You need to sustain with heavy attacks. If your enemy is at least a bit competetive it just takes him a right click to delete your sustain.
I wouldnt say nerf heavy. I would say buff light and medium armor to bring them to a point where they offer more sustain and damage then heavy. Heavy should still be a viable option and not made 100% useless with your suggested Change.
Heavy armor is one of the last Tools for solo/smallscale players they can utilize to survive masses of brainless zerglings.Its time to do something about heavy armor builds with high damage, Players in 5-7 heavy shouldnt be able to take players in light or medium armor.
A great way to do this without effecting heavy armor healer? Add to battle spirit that every piece of heavy armor after 1 reduces spell and physical pen by 3k ish
At 3k reduced pen a player wearing 5 pc of heavy will be down 15k pen and thats the average amount of penetration you can get out of heavy armor build. They wont be able to kill anything, which is how TANKS SHOULD BE . Bleed and oblivion dmg might still be a problem but this should do a decent job of fixing things.
Heavy healers will be fine because pen doesnt effect heals
So i loose 3k pen by going 5-2-0?
Anyway, heavy is strong yes cause with 7th and Fury you can get pretty decent weapon damage but 0 sustain. You need to sustain with heavy attacks. If your enemy is at least a bit competetive it just takes him a right click to delete your sustain.
I wouldnt say nerf heavy. I would say buff light and medium armor to bring them to a point where they offer more sustain and damage then heavy. Heavy should still be a viable option and not made 100% useless with your suggested Change.
Heavy armor is one of the last Tools for solo/smallscale players they can utilize to survive masses of brainless zerglings.Its time to do something about heavy armor builds with high damage, Players in 5-7 heavy shouldnt be able to take players in light or medium armor.
A great way to do this without effecting heavy armor healer? Add to battle spirit that every piece of heavy armor after 1 reduces spell and physical pen by 3k ish
At 3k reduced pen a player wearing 5 pc of heavy will be down 15k pen and thats the average amount of penetration you can get out of heavy armor build. They wont be able to kill anything, which is how TANKS SHOULD BE . Bleed and oblivion dmg might still be a problem but this should do a decent job of fixing things.
Heavy healers will be fine because pen doesnt effect heals
So i loose 3k pen by going 5-2-0?
Anyway, heavy is strong yes cause with 7th and Fury you can get pretty decent weapon damage but 0 sustain. You need to sustain with heavy attacks. If your enemy is at least a bit competetive it just takes him a right click to delete your sustain.
I wouldnt say nerf heavy. I would say buff light and medium armor to bring them to a point where they offer more sustain and damage then heavy. Heavy should still be a viable option and not made 100% useless with your suggested Change.
Heavy armor is one of the last Tools for solo/smallscale players they can utilize to survive masses of brainless zerglings.
Wanna take a guess why folks Zerg? Because unkillelable small scale guys in heavy armor bursting just shy of a light armor build who cannot be killed. They then come and post on the boards about how elite they are because of broken game mechanics.
No heavy armor build is unkillable. If i manage to kill these "op, heavy armor unkillable Builds" in a 1v1. Everyone should be able to do it.
These so called pugs who cry over heavy armor are the ones who use light and heavy attacks as their main source of damage and dont even use any heal if you stand in Front of them deleting their HP. They even continue heavy attacking. I am sorry but that wont get you killed anything
If you Go medium armor you are forced to rely on dodge roll to mitigate damage. And tbh, only a nightblade can make proper use of medium cause they can reset the dodge roll cooldown with cloak.
DKs are build to run heavy armor, wardens are. They are build for it. And every heavy armor build can be killed. They are not immortal. They are immortal to pugs, so is medium and light .
It requires zero skill for a DK to kill a Sorc. If you don’t use lightning staff for heavy attacks your options are limited. It takes much more skill for a Sorc to kill a DK. The fact you are even disputing the imbalance and trying to frame it any other way shows your argument is trolling or you are misled. I have deliberately been playing with one damage shield recently to prepare for the upcoming patch. It takes kiting, placement of burst and luck to kill a good DK. All they have to do is wait for me to make one mistake and leap and my entire healthbar is gone. That’s silly and imbalanced and if you aren’t aware of it maybe you are the pug. It takes zero skill to play a heavy armor meta right now and it has been that way for quite some time. Hopefully, the devs see this and you will have to actually earn your kills soon.
You should not comment on any balance changes when you are completely clueless.
If you died 1v1 to dk on magsorc they you are just bad sorry, but that's it l2p issue. Playing dk actually takes much more skill than to play sorc. But i see you are just biased because you die to dk's haha.5 -
Xvorg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Illuvatarr wrote: »Its time to do something about heavy armor builds with high damage, Players in 5-7 heavy shouldnt be able to take players in light or medium armor.
A great way to do this without effecting heavy armor healer? Add to battle spirit that every piece of heavy armor after 1 reduces spell and physical pen by 3k ish
At 3k reduced pen a player wearing 5 pc of heavy will be down 15k pen and thats the average amount of penetration you can get out of heavy armor build. They wont be able to kill anything, which is how TANKS SHOULD BE . Bleed and oblivion dmg might still be a problem but this should do a decent job of fixing things.
Heavy healers will be fine because pen doesnt effect heals
So i loose 3k pen by going 5-2-0?
Anyway, heavy is strong yes cause with 7th and Fury you can get pretty decent weapon damage but 0 sustain. You need to sustain with heavy attacks. If your enemy is at least a bit competetive it just takes him a right click to delete your sustain.
I wouldnt say nerf heavy. I would say buff light and medium armor to bring them to a point where they offer more sustain and damage then heavy. Heavy should still be a viable option and not made 100% useless with your suggested Change.
Heavy armor is one of the last Tools for solo/smallscale players they can utilize to survive masses of brainless zerglings.Its time to do something about heavy armor builds with high damage, Players in 5-7 heavy shouldnt be able to take players in light or medium armor.
A great way to do this without effecting heavy armor healer? Add to battle spirit that every piece of heavy armor after 1 reduces spell and physical pen by 3k ish
At 3k reduced pen a player wearing 5 pc of heavy will be down 15k pen and thats the average amount of penetration you can get out of heavy armor build. They wont be able to kill anything, which is how TANKS SHOULD BE . Bleed and oblivion dmg might still be a problem but this should do a decent job of fixing things.
Heavy healers will be fine because pen doesnt effect heals
So i loose 3k pen by going 5-2-0?
Anyway, heavy is strong yes cause with 7th and Fury you can get pretty decent weapon damage but 0 sustain. You need to sustain with heavy attacks. If your enemy is at least a bit competetive it just takes him a right click to delete your sustain.
I wouldnt say nerf heavy. I would say buff light and medium armor to bring them to a point where they offer more sustain and damage then heavy. Heavy should still be a viable option and not made 100% useless with your suggested Change.
Heavy armor is one of the last Tools for solo/smallscale players they can utilize to survive masses of brainless zerglings.Its time to do something about heavy armor builds with high damage, Players in 5-7 heavy shouldnt be able to take players in light or medium armor.
A great way to do this without effecting heavy armor healer? Add to battle spirit that every piece of heavy armor after 1 reduces spell and physical pen by 3k ish
At 3k reduced pen a player wearing 5 pc of heavy will be down 15k pen and thats the average amount of penetration you can get out of heavy armor build. They wont be able to kill anything, which is how TANKS SHOULD BE . Bleed and oblivion dmg might still be a problem but this should do a decent job of fixing things.
Heavy healers will be fine because pen doesnt effect heals
So i loose 3k pen by going 5-2-0?
Anyway, heavy is strong yes cause with 7th and Fury you can get pretty decent weapon damage but 0 sustain. You need to sustain with heavy attacks. If your enemy is at least a bit competetive it just takes him a right click to delete your sustain.
I wouldnt say nerf heavy. I would say buff light and medium armor to bring them to a point where they offer more sustain and damage then heavy. Heavy should still be a viable option and not made 100% useless with your suggested Change.
Heavy armor is one of the last Tools for solo/smallscale players they can utilize to survive masses of brainless zerglings.Its time to do something about heavy armor builds with high damage, Players in 5-7 heavy shouldnt be able to take players in light or medium armor.
A great way to do this without effecting heavy armor healer? Add to battle spirit that every piece of heavy armor after 1 reduces spell and physical pen by 3k ish
At 3k reduced pen a player wearing 5 pc of heavy will be down 15k pen and thats the average amount of penetration you can get out of heavy armor build. They wont be able to kill anything, which is how TANKS SHOULD BE . Bleed and oblivion dmg might still be a problem but this should do a decent job of fixing things.
Heavy healers will be fine because pen doesnt effect heals
So i loose 3k pen by going 5-2-0?
Anyway, heavy is strong yes cause with 7th and Fury you can get pretty decent weapon damage but 0 sustain. You need to sustain with heavy attacks. If your enemy is at least a bit competetive it just takes him a right click to delete your sustain.
I wouldnt say nerf heavy. I would say buff light and medium armor to bring them to a point where they offer more sustain and damage then heavy. Heavy should still be a viable option and not made 100% useless with your suggested Change.
Heavy armor is one of the last Tools for solo/smallscale players they can utilize to survive masses of brainless zerglings.
Wanna take a guess why folks Zerg? Because unkillelable small scale guys in heavy armor bursting just shy of a light armor build who cannot be killed. They then come and post on the boards about how elite they are because of broken game mechanics.
No heavy armor build is unkillable. If i manage to kill these "op, heavy armor unkillable Builds" in a 1v1. Everyone should be able to do it.
These so called pugs who cry over heavy armor are the ones who use light and heavy attacks as their main source of damage and dont even use any heal if you stand in Front of them deleting their HP. They even continue heavy attacking. I am sorry but that wont get you killed anything
If you Go medium armor you are forced to rely on dodge roll to mitigate damage. And tbh, only a nightblade can make proper use of medium cause they can reset the dodge roll cooldown with cloak.
DKs are build to run heavy armor, wardens are. They are build for it. And every heavy armor build can be killed. They are not immortal. They are immortal to pugs, so is medium and light .
Watch out, I have a full heavy attack DK using a lit staff and I have no problem killing guys in heavy. Yes, they are a bit harder, but an oblivion glyph + torugs + infused + knight slayer help a lot
Also I go 5L+1H+1MSarcasm is something too serious to be taken lightly
I was born with the wrong sign
In the wrong house
With the wrong ascendancy
I took the wrong road
That led to the wrong tendencies
I was in the wrong place at the wrong time
For the wrong reason and the wrong rhyme
On the wrong day of the wrong week
Used the wrong method with the wrong technique1 -
Feanor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭SilverPaws wrote: »Illuvatarr wrote: »Illuvatarr wrote: »Its time to do something about heavy armor builds with high damage, Players in 5-7 heavy shouldnt be able to take players in light or medium armor.
A great way to do this without effecting heavy armor healer? Add to battle spirit that every piece of heavy armor after 1 reduces spell and physical pen by 3k ish
At 3k reduced pen a player wearing 5 pc of heavy will be down 15k pen and thats the average amount of penetration you can get out of heavy armor build. They wont be able to kill anything, which is how TANKS SHOULD BE . Bleed and oblivion dmg might still be a problem but this should do a decent job of fixing things.
Heavy healers will be fine because pen doesnt effect heals
So i loose 3k pen by going 5-2-0?
Anyway, heavy is strong yes cause with 7th and Fury you can get pretty decent weapon damage but 0 sustain. You need to sustain with heavy attacks. If your enemy is at least a bit competetive it just takes him a right click to delete your sustain.
I wouldnt say nerf heavy. I would say buff light and medium armor to bring them to a point where they offer more sustain and damage then heavy. Heavy should still be a viable option and not made 100% useless with your suggested Change.
Heavy armor is one of the last Tools for solo/smallscale players they can utilize to survive masses of brainless zerglings.Its time to do something about heavy armor builds with high damage, Players in 5-7 heavy shouldnt be able to take players in light or medium armor.
A great way to do this without effecting heavy armor healer? Add to battle spirit that every piece of heavy armor after 1 reduces spell and physical pen by 3k ish
At 3k reduced pen a player wearing 5 pc of heavy will be down 15k pen and thats the average amount of penetration you can get out of heavy armor build. They wont be able to kill anything, which is how TANKS SHOULD BE . Bleed and oblivion dmg might still be a problem but this should do a decent job of fixing things.
Heavy healers will be fine because pen doesnt effect heals
So i loose 3k pen by going 5-2-0?
Anyway, heavy is strong yes cause with 7th and Fury you can get pretty decent weapon damage but 0 sustain. You need to sustain with heavy attacks. If your enemy is at least a bit competetive it just takes him a right click to delete your sustain.
I wouldnt say nerf heavy. I would say buff light and medium armor to bring them to a point where they offer more sustain and damage then heavy. Heavy should still be a viable option and not made 100% useless with your suggested Change.
Heavy armor is one of the last Tools for solo/smallscale players they can utilize to survive masses of brainless zerglings.Its time to do something about heavy armor builds with high damage, Players in 5-7 heavy shouldnt be able to take players in light or medium armor.
A great way to do this without effecting heavy armor healer? Add to battle spirit that every piece of heavy armor after 1 reduces spell and physical pen by 3k ish
At 3k reduced pen a player wearing 5 pc of heavy will be down 15k pen and thats the average amount of penetration you can get out of heavy armor build. They wont be able to kill anything, which is how TANKS SHOULD BE . Bleed and oblivion dmg might still be a problem but this should do a decent job of fixing things.
Heavy healers will be fine because pen doesnt effect heals
So i loose 3k pen by going 5-2-0?
Anyway, heavy is strong yes cause with 7th and Fury you can get pretty decent weapon damage but 0 sustain. You need to sustain with heavy attacks. If your enemy is at least a bit competetive it just takes him a right click to delete your sustain.
I wouldnt say nerf heavy. I would say buff light and medium armor to bring them to a point where they offer more sustain and damage then heavy. Heavy should still be a viable option and not made 100% useless with your suggested Change.
Heavy armor is one of the last Tools for solo/smallscale players they can utilize to survive masses of brainless zerglings.Its time to do something about heavy armor builds with high damage, Players in 5-7 heavy shouldnt be able to take players in light or medium armor.
A great way to do this without effecting heavy armor healer? Add to battle spirit that every piece of heavy armor after 1 reduces spell and physical pen by 3k ish
At 3k reduced pen a player wearing 5 pc of heavy will be down 15k pen and thats the average amount of penetration you can get out of heavy armor build. They wont be able to kill anything, which is how TANKS SHOULD BE . Bleed and oblivion dmg might still be a problem but this should do a decent job of fixing things.
Heavy healers will be fine because pen doesnt effect heals
So i loose 3k pen by going 5-2-0?
Anyway, heavy is strong yes cause with 7th and Fury you can get pretty decent weapon damage but 0 sustain. You need to sustain with heavy attacks. If your enemy is at least a bit competetive it just takes him a right click to delete your sustain.
I wouldnt say nerf heavy. I would say buff light and medium armor to bring them to a point where they offer more sustain and damage then heavy. Heavy should still be a viable option and not made 100% useless with your suggested Change.
Heavy armor is one of the last Tools for solo/smallscale players they can utilize to survive masses of brainless zerglings.
Wanna take a guess why folks Zerg? Because unkillelable small scale guys in heavy armor bursting just shy of a light armor build who cannot be killed. They then come and post on the boards about how elite they are because of broken game mechanics.
No heavy armor build is unkillable. If i manage to kill these "op, heavy armor unkillable Builds" in a 1v1. Everyone should be able to do it.
These so called pugs who cry over heavy armor are the ones who use light and heavy attacks as their main source of damage and dont even use any heal if you stand in Front of them deleting their HP. They even continue heavy attacking. I am sorry but that wont get you killed anything
If you Go medium armor you are forced to rely on dodge roll to mitigate damage. And tbh, only a nightblade can make proper use of medium cause they can reset the dodge roll cooldown with cloak.
DKs are build to run heavy armor, wardens are. They are build for it. And every heavy armor build can be killed. They are not immortal. They are immortal to pugs, so is medium and light .
It requires zero skill for a DK to kill a Sorc. If you don’t use lightning staff for heavy attacks your options are limited. It takes much more skill for a Sorc to kill a DK. The fact you are even disputing the imbalance and trying to frame it any other way shows your argument is trolling or you are misled. I have deliberately been playing with one damage shield recently to prepare for the upcoming patch. It takes kiting, placement of burst and luck to kill a good DK. All they have to do is wait for me to make one mistake and leap and my entire healthbar is gone. That’s silly and imbalanced and if you aren’t aware of it maybe you are the pug. It takes zero skill to play a heavy armor meta right now and it has been that way for quite some time. Hopefully, the devs see this and you will have to actually earn your kills soon.
You should not comment on any balance changes when you are completely clueless.
If you died 1v1 to dk on magsorc they you are just bad sorry, but that's it l2p issue. Playing dk actually takes much more skill than to play sorc. But i see you are just biased because you die to dk's haha.
What are you going to kill the DK with? Curse and Force Pulse? Meanwhile the DK just runs you out of stam with Talons and Fossilize. DK vs mSorc isn’t a favorable setup. You can play for a draw if skill is similar, but that’s it.
Edited by Feanor on October 5, 2018 1:36PMMain characters: Feanor the Believer - AD Altmer mSorc - AR 46 - Flawless Conqueror (PC EU)Idril Arnanor - AD Altmer mSorc - CP 217 - Stormproof (PC NA)Other characters:Necrophilius Killgood - DC Imperial NecromancerFearscales - AD Argonian Templar - Stormproof (healer)Draco Imperialis - AD Imperial DK (tank)Cabed Naearamarth - AD Dunmer mDKValirion Willowthorne - AD Bosmer stamBladeTuruna - AD Altmer magBladeKheled Zaram - AD Redguard stamDKKibil Nala - AD Redguard stamSorc - StormproofYavanna Kémentárí - AD Breton magWardenAzog gro-Ghâsh - EP Orc stamWardenVidar Drakenblød - DC Nord mDKMarquis de Peyrac - DC Breton mSorc - StormproofRawlith Khaj'ra - AD Khajiit stamWardenTu'waccah - AD Redguard StamplarAll chars 50 @ CP 1700+. Playing and enjoying PvP with RdK mostly on PC EU.5 -
Xvorg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭CritsTheBed wrote: »TequilaFire wrote: »Why shouldn't a Player in heavy not be able to take a person in medium or light?
Makes no sense, are you saying that the type of armor you wear should decide a battle?
Then should a player in medium not be able to take a player in light armor?
Becuase you shouldnt be able to have 25-30k resist and 30k health and do high amounts of dps to players. As of right now there is no reason not to run heavy as a dps. A heavy armor build can be over pen'ing players, everage medium and light resist is around 15k and it is EASY to get that much penetration.
Why not? Because tanks should't be able to do dmg?
Do I have to explain you how that battle ended?
I agree that heavy should't be as mobile as medium or light, but by no way it should do less dmg per se
So everybody runs stam heavy armour 2h/dw bc of way better survivability and 7k weapon damage. And I mean everybody. 100% of the population. Because why would you gimp yourself when the copy paste 7th/fury/bs heavy armour meta is a ton better?
The point is those few sets combined with heavy are overperforming AND there are 2 other less desirable weights and a ton of sets that just sit bc why use them? Were talking about BALANCE. Damage vs survivability between 3 weights of armour and out of line sets.
bal·ance
ˈbaləns/noun: balance; plural noun: balances - condition in which different elements are equal or in the correct proportions.
And your approach to get balance is "nerf heavy"?
As I mentioned above, heavy should be less mobile than medium or light. But doing less dmg than medium? Do you really want to send heavy to Oblivion?
mobility has nothing to do with kills
the problem is heavy armor is able to kill builds that cant kill them, especially burst builds that cant pressure
That's because you aim for it's bigger bar, which is health. If you build towards draining their stam, no matter how many procs they get, they will not be able to use their skills.
The siphoning star is there and we have more than enough CPs to use it. Same with poisons. Drain the guy his beloved stam and he will become a bar of ironEdited by Xvorg on October 5, 2018 1:35PMSarcasm is something too serious to be taken lightly
I was born with the wrong sign
In the wrong house
With the wrong ascendancy
I took the wrong road
That led to the wrong tendencies
I was in the wrong place at the wrong time
For the wrong reason and the wrong rhyme
On the wrong day of the wrong week
Used the wrong method with the wrong technique2 -
lucky_dutch✭✭✭✭Ragnaroek93 wrote: »*** lmao. Heavy is only a type of survivability, its not like other games where a tank is functionally immortal but has no damage, this game has more a mix. OK, anyone who uses shields should be able to kill someone, anyone who rolls shouldn't be able to kill someone.
See how easy it is to make blanket statements?
Light is already better for mag builds than heavy, and gets even better next patch for 3/5 mag builds. Heavy vanilla, aka for mag builds with no fancy speed buffs or high WP sets is bad as is, nerfing it blanketly is stupid. And for the most part, heavy builds are immortal, the ones that are, are useless. Bleeds/defiles/dots is possible for 7/10 specs. The problem is when they get fast and then can avoid a lot of damage whilst also being able to eat whatever hits them. Tone down that speed and you'll see exactly how weak heavy can be.
Tl;dr: L2P.
How does light armor get better than heavy next patch with the nerfs to shields and Healing Ward? Or how does medium armor get better than heavy armor when they take away Evasion? Light armor can compete with heavy if you are Argonian and after they removed the Wrath passive, but I guess that will change again with the next update.
Considering how much light and med get nerfed this update it would be just fair to nerf heavy armor as well, or buff light and med while leaving heavy how it is.
3 mag classes can forgo shields. The grace snare reduction+extra cost reduction is a buff for them. Heavy mag gets nothing. MagDK "shield" builds only use heal ward, whilst nerfed, dk still works well with black rose resto.
Medium gets better, fm is down to 4s and loses a burst heal, whilst gaining a very strong dmg reduction. Heavy has to run blade cloak to use it. Ofc heavy for stam is still better, but that doesn't mean shityy blanket nerfs.
This is so wrong. I categorically guarantee you that if nothing changes between now and live that every mag player will be either in heavy armor or running glass cannon gank builds. Nothing else will be viable.0 -
Xvorg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭CritsTheBed wrote: »CritsTheBed wrote: »CritsTheBed wrote: »TequilaFire wrote: »Why shouldn't a Player in heavy not be able to take a person in medium or light?
Makes no sense, are you saying that the type of armor you wear should decide a battle?
Then should a player in medium not be able to take a player in light armor?
Becuase you shouldnt be able to have 25-30k resist and 30k health and do high amounts of dps to players. As of right now there is no reason not to run heavy as a dps. A heavy armor build can be over pen'ing players, everage medium and light resist is around 15k and it is EASY to get that much penetration.
Why not? Because tanks should't be able to do dmg?
Do I have to explain you how that battle ended?
I agree that heavy should't be as mobile as medium or light, but by no way it should do less dmg per se
So everybody runs stam heavy armour 2h/dw bc of way better survivability and 7k weapon damage. And I mean everybody. 100% of the population. Because why would you gimp yourself when the copy paste 7th/fury/bs heavy armour meta is a ton better?
The point is those few sets combined with heavy are overperforming AND there are 2 other less desirable weights and a ton of sets that just sit bc why use them? Were talking about BALANCE. Damage vs survivability between 3 weights of armour and out of line sets.
bal·ance
ˈbaləns/noun: balance; plural noun: balances - condition in which different elements are equal or in the correct proportions.
And your approach to get balance is "nerf heavy"?
As I mentioned above, heavy should be less mobile than medium or light. But doing less dmg than medium? Do you really want to send heavy to Oblivion?
Yes and some heavy armour sets. Heavy armour has WAAAAY more survivability than medium or light and if youre running heavy, chances are your running 7th/fury/bs which is more damage than mag and right up there with a divines gank build. So slowing heavy down a bit wont fix much. Like Irylia said earlier, nerf the offending sets. Put some kinda of mitigation or cc immunity in med and light passives and POOF medium and light will be relevant again.
Are you kidding? The 3 types have around the same survaibility, the thing is that both, medium and light require skill, while Heavy don't, but that's all. Sure, they can hit the armor cap, but medium can do that too using Brass. Even light can get as high as 23k resistance combining Almalexia's Mercy with Alessia's Bulwark and that's without using major ward/Resolve and also they give you 2 very interesting procs (Did you know you can proc alma heal with equilibrium?)
Heavy also lacks the resource recovery the other two have and the only way to keep on battle is by receiving dmg. Use a poison that drains stam, a stun and 43 points into the siphoning CP star, and the guy is done, no way he can build stam as quick and as reliabily as medium.
You lost the second you threw in brass. Med and light needs give up a damage set to survive but heavy gets to run 7th, fury or ravager which is extremely high damage and the benefits of heavy survival. How in the world is that the same to you?
How do you give up survival on light? Last time I checked there was a skill called "healing ward" that does wonders on light armor, especially if you have a low health bar. Same as this other skill called dampen magicka, that escalates better with your magicka pool. So if you build magicka, you get both, extra dmg and extra mitigation. So a combo of brass + spinners next patch will not only give you the 40% max health shield, but also a shield with a huge resistance, while getting extra penetration.
I'm afraid your problem with heavy is in between the keyboard and the chair. Sorry.Sarcasm is something too serious to be taken lightly
I was born with the wrong sign
In the wrong house
With the wrong ascendancy
I took the wrong road
That led to the wrong tendencies
I was in the wrong place at the wrong time
For the wrong reason and the wrong rhyme
On the wrong day of the wrong week
Used the wrong method with the wrong technique1 -
Maura_Neysa✭✭✭✭✭Maura_Neysa wrote: »Its time to do something about heavy armor builds with high damage, Players in 5-7 heavy shouldnt be able to take players in light or medium armor.
A great way to do this without effecting heavy armor healer? Add to battle spirit that every piece of heavy armor after 1 reduces spell and physical pen by 3k ish
At 3k reduced pen a player wearing 5 pc of heavy will be down 15k pen and thats the average amount of penetration you can get out of heavy armor build. They wont be able to kill anything, which is how TANKS SHOULD BE . Bleed and oblivion dmg might still be a problem but this should do a decent job of fixing things.
Heavy healers will be fine because pen doesnt effect heals
Holy :facepalm: just no, Heavy Armor doesn't mean zero damage. Heavy Armor damage Player are completely valid. Heavy Armor damage sets exist, so do Heavy Armor defensive sets. If you run defensive sets you wont kill anything, Heartland, Durok's, Ward. Or you can run something in between like Blackrose, or run something offensive like Ravager and 7th. The same way if you run Light Fortified Brass, you will also be lacking in damage
Second, there are huge Armor changes coming, so you might even have already got your wish without this idiotic idea.
So you feel that its just fine that players with 30k resist are able to have the exact same pen and dmg as a player in light or meduim
So if I assume correctly, you would be against medium/light armor builds being able to reach way above resistance cap and having high damage?? I´m seriously asking, not mocking you or anything
ya, i dont really see that but if a light or medium build can hit 35k resist that probably needs adjusting and should be looked into. Most light medium builds i see have around 10-15k resist, some medium pushes 20 but thats pretty far from 35k
33k Resist on Medium is no Problem. Even more with bloodspawn.
I made a build with 32k Resist, 2800 crit resist, 3.5k wep damage, 36k stam, 1600 stam rec .
Not the highest damage but quite tanky and next patch even more with the shuffle changes. But guess what, i am not immortal.
like ya you have resist but your sacrificing alot fot it, you dont need to sacrifice for it in heavy, thats the problem. you get good resist and are still able to get decent dmgMaura_Neysa wrote: »Its time to do something about heavy armor builds with high damage, Players in 5-7 heavy shouldnt be able to take players in light or medium armor.
A great way to do this without effecting heavy armor healer? Add to battle spirit that every piece of heavy armor after 1 reduces spell and physical pen by 3k ish
At 3k reduced pen a player wearing 5 pc of heavy will be down 15k pen and thats the average amount of penetration you can get out of heavy armor build. They wont be able to kill anything, which is how TANKS SHOULD BE . Bleed and oblivion dmg might still be a problem but this should do a decent job of fixing things.
Heavy healers will be fine because pen doesnt effect heals
Holy :facepalm: just no, Heavy Armor doesn't mean zero damage. Heavy Armor damage Player are completely valid. Heavy Armor damage sets exist, so do Heavy Armor defensive sets. If you run defensive sets you wont kill anything, Heartland, Durok's, Ward. Or you can run something in between like Blackrose, or run something offensive like Ravager and 7th. The same way if you run Light Fortified Brass, you will also be lacking in damage
Second, there are huge Armor changes coming, so you might even have already got your wish without this idiotic idea.
So you feel that its just fine that players with 30k resist are able to have the exact same pen and dmg as a player in light or meduim
So if I assume correctly, you would be against medium/light armor builds being able to reach way above resistance cap and having high damage?? I´m seriously asking, not mocking you or anything
ya, i dont really see that but if a light or medium build can hit 35k resist that probably needs adjusting and should be looked into. Most light medium builds i see have around 10-15k resist, some medium pushes 20 but thats pretty far from 35k
I play medium armor stamplar from time to time. Atm I´m running:
5 Medium impregnable
5 Automaton
Master Dualwield
Bloodspawn
Highest achievable resistance I´ve been able to reach (Bloodspawn + Remembrance + Standing inside runed focus) is 40k+. When looking at my combat metrics summary after longer fights I´m on an average 28-34k resistance. At the same time I sit at around 5k-ish weapon damage (with automaton included). Add 5k+ critresistance on top of all this and you´re really difficult to kill. Only small downside with stamplar (I´m an imperial as well) is the sustain, but that will get buffed with next patch anyway.
So on certain classes/setups it´s easy to achieve tankiness and damage, nothing exclusive for heavy armor :P
Lol that Medium armor build is more resistance than my Heavy Armor StamDen Bosmer
7th and 3Marksmen and Asylum 2H I have 32k Resistance and 5k Weapon Damaged fully proc’d with about 2.5. Crit ResistanceMaiden Maura - Xbox NA
Warden Ice Tank (By far my favorite) -RIP #NerfmireStormproof, Shehai Shatterer, Mageslayer(solo tanked), Ophidian Overlord, Assistant Alienist, Boethiah's Scythe,Maw of Lorkhaj Conqueror, Divayth Fyr's CoadjutorDragon Knight Healer (Since Homestead)
MajorShehai Shatterer, Mageslayer,Warden 2x Bow DPSStormproof, Shehai Shatterer, Mageslayer, Ophidian Overlord, Assistant Alienist, Boethiah's Scythe, Maw of Lorkhaj Conqueror, Divayth Fyr's Coadjutor, Sunspire Saint,Others
PvP StamDen, Warden Healer, MagDen, Stamplar, StamSorc, DK Failed Attempt, NB Failed Attempt
Playing BiS isn't impressive, playing unique at BiS lvl, THAT's impressive.0 -
Strider__Roshin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Make it so the healing received bonus is from outside sources, and not self. That would go a long way.1 -
lucky_dutch✭✭✭✭usmcjdking wrote: »HAs problem is that is really has no weakness. Anything that's built to deal with heavy armor more often than not is more effective vs. light & medium. The only HA hard counter that I'm aware of is Maces/Mauls which scale incredibly well with HA and poorly vs. light.
A significant buff to maces/mauls might be enough to reign in HA to an acceptable degree.
Heavy has no shields, not many rolls, and for mag no mobility, (light gets some next patch with grace) weaker damage and weaker sustain.
It is completely *** by blatantly Op bleeds which heavy armour builds have nothing but healing, a la shield breaker. On live you can shield them to prevent their crits, or dodge/escape. Can't in mag heavy.
Defiled, which chews into heavy armour passives, again, can't shield, dodge, run, heavy by itself only has just mitigation+healing. And the meta bleed blades (and other builds) can take that away instantly.
So much for no weaknesses.
I'm sorry but his this post screams of "I like my crutch, don't take it away from me'.
Bleeds are an enabler of the heavy armor meta. All heavy armor builds are running bleeds as they can just apply them, spam AoE and sustain with vigor until their target is dead. Once the bleeds are up their target can no longer dodge any of their damage because bleed ticks through dodge as does steel tornado.
For that same reason, the extra dodges that medium can get are a complete waste of time.
Heavy > All in murkmire as things stand. The only exception to that might be anguish-wearing stamblades but I reckon that set is getting nerfed again or reworked before it goes live.
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SilverPaws✭✭✭✭✭SilverPaws wrote: »Illuvatarr wrote: »Illuvatarr wrote: »Its time to do something about heavy armor builds with high damage, Players in 5-7 heavy shouldnt be able to take players in light or medium armor.
A great way to do this without effecting heavy armor healer? Add to battle spirit that every piece of heavy armor after 1 reduces spell and physical pen by 3k ish
At 3k reduced pen a player wearing 5 pc of heavy will be down 15k pen and thats the average amount of penetration you can get out of heavy armor build. They wont be able to kill anything, which is how TANKS SHOULD BE . Bleed and oblivion dmg might still be a problem but this should do a decent job of fixing things.
Heavy healers will be fine because pen doesnt effect heals
So i loose 3k pen by going 5-2-0?
Anyway, heavy is strong yes cause with 7th and Fury you can get pretty decent weapon damage but 0 sustain. You need to sustain with heavy attacks. If your enemy is at least a bit competetive it just takes him a right click to delete your sustain.
I wouldnt say nerf heavy. I would say buff light and medium armor to bring them to a point where they offer more sustain and damage then heavy. Heavy should still be a viable option and not made 100% useless with your suggested Change.
Heavy armor is one of the last Tools for solo/smallscale players they can utilize to survive masses of brainless zerglings.Its time to do something about heavy armor builds with high damage, Players in 5-7 heavy shouldnt be able to take players in light or medium armor.
A great way to do this without effecting heavy armor healer? Add to battle spirit that every piece of heavy armor after 1 reduces spell and physical pen by 3k ish
At 3k reduced pen a player wearing 5 pc of heavy will be down 15k pen and thats the average amount of penetration you can get out of heavy armor build. They wont be able to kill anything, which is how TANKS SHOULD BE . Bleed and oblivion dmg might still be a problem but this should do a decent job of fixing things.
Heavy healers will be fine because pen doesnt effect heals
So i loose 3k pen by going 5-2-0?
Anyway, heavy is strong yes cause with 7th and Fury you can get pretty decent weapon damage but 0 sustain. You need to sustain with heavy attacks. If your enemy is at least a bit competetive it just takes him a right click to delete your sustain.
I wouldnt say nerf heavy. I would say buff light and medium armor to bring them to a point where they offer more sustain and damage then heavy. Heavy should still be a viable option and not made 100% useless with your suggested Change.
Heavy armor is one of the last Tools for solo/smallscale players they can utilize to survive masses of brainless zerglings.Its time to do something about heavy armor builds with high damage, Players in 5-7 heavy shouldnt be able to take players in light or medium armor.
A great way to do this without effecting heavy armor healer? Add to battle spirit that every piece of heavy armor after 1 reduces spell and physical pen by 3k ish
At 3k reduced pen a player wearing 5 pc of heavy will be down 15k pen and thats the average amount of penetration you can get out of heavy armor build. They wont be able to kill anything, which is how TANKS SHOULD BE . Bleed and oblivion dmg might still be a problem but this should do a decent job of fixing things.
Heavy healers will be fine because pen doesnt effect heals
So i loose 3k pen by going 5-2-0?
Anyway, heavy is strong yes cause with 7th and Fury you can get pretty decent weapon damage but 0 sustain. You need to sustain with heavy attacks. If your enemy is at least a bit competetive it just takes him a right click to delete your sustain.
I wouldnt say nerf heavy. I would say buff light and medium armor to bring them to a point where they offer more sustain and damage then heavy. Heavy should still be a viable option and not made 100% useless with your suggested Change.
Heavy armor is one of the last Tools for solo/smallscale players they can utilize to survive masses of brainless zerglings.Its time to do something about heavy armor builds with high damage, Players in 5-7 heavy shouldnt be able to take players in light or medium armor.
A great way to do this without effecting heavy armor healer? Add to battle spirit that every piece of heavy armor after 1 reduces spell and physical pen by 3k ish
At 3k reduced pen a player wearing 5 pc of heavy will be down 15k pen and thats the average amount of penetration you can get out of heavy armor build. They wont be able to kill anything, which is how TANKS SHOULD BE . Bleed and oblivion dmg might still be a problem but this should do a decent job of fixing things.
Heavy healers will be fine because pen doesnt effect heals
So i loose 3k pen by going 5-2-0?
Anyway, heavy is strong yes cause with 7th and Fury you can get pretty decent weapon damage but 0 sustain. You need to sustain with heavy attacks. If your enemy is at least a bit competetive it just takes him a right click to delete your sustain.
I wouldnt say nerf heavy. I would say buff light and medium armor to bring them to a point where they offer more sustain and damage then heavy. Heavy should still be a viable option and not made 100% useless with your suggested Change.
Heavy armor is one of the last Tools for solo/smallscale players they can utilize to survive masses of brainless zerglings.
Wanna take a guess why folks Zerg? Because unkillelable small scale guys in heavy armor bursting just shy of a light armor build who cannot be killed. They then come and post on the boards about how elite they are because of broken game mechanics.
No heavy armor build is unkillable. If i manage to kill these "op, heavy armor unkillable Builds" in a 1v1. Everyone should be able to do it.
These so called pugs who cry over heavy armor are the ones who use light and heavy attacks as their main source of damage and dont even use any heal if you stand in Front of them deleting their HP. They even continue heavy attacking. I am sorry but that wont get you killed anything
If you Go medium armor you are forced to rely on dodge roll to mitigate damage. And tbh, only a nightblade can make proper use of medium cause they can reset the dodge roll cooldown with cloak.
DKs are build to run heavy armor, wardens are. They are build for it. And every heavy armor build can be killed. They are not immortal. They are immortal to pugs, so is medium and light .
It requires zero skill for a DK to kill a Sorc. If you don’t use lightning staff for heavy attacks your options are limited. It takes much more skill for a Sorc to kill a DK. The fact you are even disputing the imbalance and trying to frame it any other way shows your argument is trolling or you are misled. I have deliberately been playing with one damage shield recently to prepare for the upcoming patch. It takes kiting, placement of burst and luck to kill a good DK. All they have to do is wait for me to make one mistake and leap and my entire healthbar is gone. That’s silly and imbalanced and if you aren’t aware of it maybe you are the pug. It takes zero skill to play a heavy armor meta right now and it has been that way for quite some time. Hopefully, the devs see this and you will have to actually earn your kills soon.
You should not comment on any balance changes when you are completely clueless.
If you died 1v1 to dk on magsorc they you are just bad sorry, but that's it l2p issue. Playing dk actually takes much more skill than to play sorc. But i see you are just biased because you die to dk's haha.
What are you going to kill the DK with? Curse and Force Pulse? Meanwhile the DK just runs you out of stam with Talons and Fossilize. DK vs mSorc isn’t a favorable setup. You can play for a draw if skill is similar, but that’s it.
That is true, that if dk and magsorc have same skill then it's stalemate, but i was more reacting that Illuvatarr was saying that playing dk is easy mode and that they kill magsorc easily while that is not truth at all..
Same as magsorcs lack dmg to kill, dk's have it same, both classes were gutted by zenimax and they're nonsense balance that is destroying everything that makes classes unique…
It's just sad that they don't see how they make pvp boring and unfun...Edited by SilverPaws on October 5, 2018 2:08PM0 -
Feanor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Wolf_Watching wrote: »
Well, they did want to make healers more important. So it would be totally in line with their intent.
Main characters: Feanor the Believer - AD Altmer mSorc - AR 46 - Flawless Conqueror (PC EU)Idril Arnanor - AD Altmer mSorc - CP 217 - Stormproof (PC NA)Other characters:Necrophilius Killgood - DC Imperial NecromancerFearscales - AD Argonian Templar - Stormproof (healer)Draco Imperialis - AD Imperial DK (tank)Cabed Naearamarth - AD Dunmer mDKValirion Willowthorne - AD Bosmer stamBladeTuruna - AD Altmer magBladeKheled Zaram - AD Redguard stamDKKibil Nala - AD Redguard stamSorc - StormproofYavanna Kémentárí - AD Breton magWardenAzog gro-Ghâsh - EP Orc stamWardenVidar Drakenblød - DC Nord mDKMarquis de Peyrac - DC Breton mSorc - StormproofRawlith Khaj'ra - AD Khajiit stamWardenTu'waccah - AD Redguard StamplarAll chars 50 @ CP 1700+. Playing and enjoying PvP with RdK mostly on PC EU.0 -
grannas211✭✭✭✭✭
✭All the incompetence in this thread is mind boggling. Heavy armor is fine. Mark my words, medium armor will be tankier due to the given 25% reduction in aoe damage through major evasion next patch. Almost all hard hitting abilities are AOE exclusive.
Instead of being mindless tools following some herd master, and yelling the same exact things he says "Nerf Heavy Armor!", why not improve medium armor and light armor further. For instance, get rid of that useless sneak passive in the medium armor passive tree and replace it with let's say: reduce cost by x% for ultimates. Or increase stam/magicka recovery while sprinting. In that same line of thought, you could do the same for light armor in terms of buffing passives.
Stop being tools and asking for nerfs. Think for just a moment: Do you really expect ZOS to do exactly what you want in the manner you asked? And if they did, do you really believe they have the capability to implement that thought/idea correctly into the game. Track record shows that no, ZOS definitely doesn't know how to properly implement new game combat mechanics without severely hindering others. Also, don't think that asking for a nerf keeps you immune from ZOS' treatment. A nerf today, will only result in your skills/build being nerfed tomorrow.
*insert the wtf stare gif0 -
magictucktuck✭✭✭✭✭*** lmao. Heavy is only a type of survivability, its not like other games where a tank is functionally immortal but has no damage, this game has more a mix. OK, anyone who uses shields should be able to kill someone, anyone who rolls shouldn't be able to kill someone.
See how easy it is to make blanket statements?
Light is already better for mag builds than heavy, and gets even better next patch for 3/5 mag builds. Heavy vanilla, aka for mag builds with no fancy speed buffs or high WP sets is bad as is, nerfing it blanketly is stupid. And for the most part, heavy builds are immortal, the ones that are, are useless. Bleeds/defiles/dots is possible for 7/10 specs. The problem is when they get fast and then can avoid a lot of damage whilst also being able to eat whatever hits them. Tone down that speed and you'll see exactly how weak heavy can be.
Tl;dr: L2P.
heavy has been the meta for PVP long before people were moving fast. since before Morrowind. I know on Xbox it was medium armor night blades for launch and once everyone got situated after imperial city, really since Orsinium or thieves guild people have mostly been in heavy in PVP. not that we have not had specific op builds like VD and such but heavy has been being complained about for a long time. i don't think people moving slow is going to fix it. not saying blanket stat buffs/nerfs will but definitely not speed
EDIT: i only remember because i hated heal bots and tanks since i mained a stamina NB for the longest time. and i remember when one day everyone and their mother had heavy and a shield and i would complain about it, i refused to wear heavy for the longest time. Now i don't think its as bad no one is unkillable like they seemingly used to be beside if they are in a pack of them with lots of heals and no one with you is any good, but that doesn't mean unkillable, just u cant kill them.Edited by magictucktuck on October 5, 2018 2:20PM1 -
Crixus8000✭✭✭✭✭
✭Make it so the healing received bonus is from outside sources, and not self. That would go a long way.
So once again completely useless for solo players. It's like most people forget solo exists. Solo play has already been hit very, very hard. It would be nice to get a break.
I swear one day I will move at - 10% move speed all the time, lose every 1v2 and have every skill passive only work when an ally is near bye. It seems to be heading that way.
Edited by Crixus8000 on October 5, 2018 2:31PM2 -
lucky_dutch✭✭✭✭Crixus8000 wrote: »Make it so the healing received bonus is from outside sources, and not self. That would go a long way.
So once again completely useless for solo players. It's like most people forget solo exists. Solo play has already been hit very, very hard. It would be nice to get a break.
I swear one day I will move at - 10% move speed all the time, lose every 1v2 and have every skill passive only work when an ally is near bye. It seems to be heading that way.
You talking about solo PvP or solo PvE?
Solo PvE is completely trivial and we needn't fear of nerfing that - even potatoes can complete all the solo content besides maybe vMA.
Solo PvP then I think heavy still needs a bit of a nerf tbh. It's not just the meta for stam classes but it's about to become the meta for light armor classes too. That, or they could buff medium & light up to heavy's level. I'm perfectly comfortable with that idea.
Edited by lucky_dutch on October 5, 2018 2:42PM0 -
lucky_Sage✭✭✭✭✭Really the heavy armor meta is Stam only and it's because of 7th, furry. Most mag is just better to go light even most Magdk' s are light nowDC PC NA
Magdk - main
Stamcro - alt
AD PS4 NA -retired (PC runs way better to play on console)
magdk
magblade
stamplar
magden
magsorc2 -
Strider__Roshin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭lucky_Sage wrote: »Really the heavy armor meta is Stam only and it's because of 7th, furry. Most mag is just better to go light even most Magdk' s are light now
The heavy armor meta is stam only because magicka has been carried my damage shields, and the reason why magDK works best in light is because their healing scales with damage done, and concentration in conjunction with higher crit more than makes up for the loss of the healing received passive you get from heavy.
The heavy meta is only going to increase this update as light armor is about to become as squishy as medium. Some will be able to handle it. Others will switch to heavy.1 -
lucky_Sage✭✭✭✭✭lucky_Sage wrote: »Really the heavy armor meta is Stam only and it's because of 7th, furry. Most mag is just better to go light even most Magdk' s are light now
The heavy armor meta is stam only because magicka has been carried my damage shields, and the reason why magDK works best in light is because their healing scales with damage done, and concentration in conjunction with higher crit more than makes up for the loss of the healing received passive you get from heavy.
The heavy meta is only going to increase this update as light armor is about to become as squishy as medium. Some will be able to handle it. Others will switch to heavy.
I'm already as squishy even more than med my only healing is embers and healing ward the nerf to harness doesn't affect me but the removal of the first heal from healing ward will so I will prob rest combat prayer because db cost to much to use I might also try to farm pirate skeletonDC PC NA
Magdk - main
Stamcro - alt
AD PS4 NA -retired (PC runs way better to play on console)
magdk
magblade
stamplar
magden
magsorc0 -
Crixus8000✭✭✭✭✭
✭lucky_dutch wrote: »
You talking about solo PvP or solo PvE?
Solo PvE is completely trivial and we needn't fear of nerfing that - even potatoes can complete all the solo content besides maybe vMA.
Solo PvP then I think heavy still needs a bit of a nerf tbh. It's not just the meta for stam classes but it's about to become the meta for light armor classes too. That, or they could buff medium & light up to heavy's level. I'm perfectly comfortable with that idea.
Pvp
And how is it in need of a nerf ? It has already been nerfed. Honestly so many issues are because people just want nerfs after nerfs, look what happens. And it will become good for magicka because light was nerfed with shield changes, I never agreed with that. That's not heavys fault, and nothing to do with it tbh.
But yes I think buffing medium and light is the way to go, people need to stop asking for countless nerfs, it just causes more issues.
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Kanar✭✭✭✭✭
✭Zos gave us all these great heavy WD sets so clearly they want us to use heavy. Try to find a medium armor set as good as 7th or Veiled.
Briarheart? No. Senche? No. All medium has is some proc sets and stam sustain sets, it doesn't even have a decent set that gives mag sustain, we have to go to light for that (prisoner's or desert rose). So until we get some decent sets in medium that aren't proc sets like viper, there's no point to use it.
Look at your death recaps. What's on there? Dbos, sub assault, spin2win, various bleeds, snipe, ass blade, incap, ambush, hurricane. Consider the mitigation available from med vs heavy; sure next patch med gets 25% vs the no-skill-combo if you run the overpriced shuffle, but medium gets eaten by bleeds and any ST attack you don't dodge - and you can't dodge all the time. Meanwhile heavy gets benefit of res vs almost all that damage, plus higher health pool and healing received is useful vs all damage. Light and medium armor should get a stat boost like heavy gets for health.2 -
katorga✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭You think it is meta now, just wait. Everyone will have to run it because of the shield and mobility nerfs.
Want stronger shields....heavy armor
Want stronger heals....heavy armor
Want to tank damage while perma-snared with no mobility....heavy armor
Want highest damage sets....heavy armor.1 -
Moonsorrow✭✭✭✭✭
✭The culprit to heavy is the statbonus it gets imo. ZOS has managed to make health as desireable as other stats currently in the game. Which is good - generally speaking. But problematic when looking at creating optimal builds/setups.
Give light armor 1% healing done and 1% maxmagica per piece of armor worn.
Give medium 2% maxstam per piece of armor worn.
Suddenly we have no glaring stat disparity between different armor weights which would go a long way in reducing heavy being flatout more desireable for most players.
This.
It fills me with joy always to see things suggested this way instead of endless nerfs.
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Bhelen✭✭✭The solution to get heavy stam into medium would be to buff medium. Give it a crit resistance passive so that it's not so unforgiving. Keep evasion on shuffle and up the snare immunity to be on par with forward momentum. Better set options could help too.2 -
Crixus8000✭✭✭✭✭
✭Zos gave us all these great heavy WD sets so clearly they want us to use heavy. Try to find a medium armor set as good as 7th or Veiled.
Briarheart? No. Senche? No. All medium has is some proc sets and stam sustain sets, it doesn't even have a decent set that gives mag sustain, we have to go to light for that (prisoner's or desert rose). So until we get some decent sets in medium that aren't proc sets like viper, there's no point to use it.
I mean sure, medium could do with some better set options, but what's stopping people from using veiled or 7th on a medium build ?
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Strider__Roshin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Moonsorrow wrote: »The culprit to heavy is the statbonus it gets imo. ZOS has managed to make health as desireable as other stats currently in the game. Which is good - generally speaking. But problematic when looking at creating optimal builds/setups.
Give light armor 1% healing done and 1% maxmagica per piece of armor worn.
Give medium 2% maxstam per piece of armor worn.
Suddenly we have no glaring stat disparity between different armor weights which would go a long way in reducing heavy being flatout more desireable for most players.
This.
It fills me with joy always to see things suggested this way instead of endless nerfs.
The only issue with that suggestion is that it exacerbates the issue that we're too powerful in PvE.
For starters I'd remove the attribute bonus that comes from CP then I'd be okay with those suggestions with the exception of the one given for medium armor.
I'd revert the Agility buff back to 12%, and give a 2% increase in weapon damage per piece equipped. Weapon damage scales better for stam; whereas max magicka scales better for magicka.0 -
CritsTheBed✭✭✭✭CritsTheBed wrote: »CritsTheBed wrote: »CritsTheBed wrote: »TequilaFire wrote: »Why shouldn't a Player in heavy not be able to take a person in medium or light?
Makes no sense, are you saying that the type of armor you wear should decide a battle?
Then should a player in medium not be able to take a player in light armor?
Becuase you shouldnt be able to have 25-30k resist and 30k health and do high amounts of dps to players. As of right now there is no reason not to run heavy as a dps. A heavy armor build can be over pen'ing players, everage medium and light resist is around 15k and it is EASY to get that much penetration.
Why not? Because tanks should't be able to do dmg?
Do I have to explain you how that battle ended?
I agree that heavy should't be as mobile as medium or light, but by no way it should do less dmg per se
So everybody runs stam heavy armour 2h/dw bc of way better survivability and 7k weapon damage. And I mean everybody. 100% of the population. Because why would you gimp yourself when the copy paste 7th/fury/bs heavy armour meta is a ton better?
The point is those few sets combined with heavy are overperforming AND there are 2 other less desirable weights and a ton of sets that just sit bc why use them? Were talking about BALANCE. Damage vs survivability between 3 weights of armour and out of line sets.
bal·ance
ˈbaləns/noun: balance; plural noun: balances - condition in which different elements are equal or in the correct proportions.
And your approach to get balance is "nerf heavy"?
As I mentioned above, heavy should be less mobile than medium or light. But doing less dmg than medium? Do you really want to send heavy to Oblivion?
Yes and some heavy armour sets. Heavy armour has WAAAAY more survivability than medium or light and if youre running heavy, chances are your running 7th/fury/bs which is more damage than mag and right up there with a divines gank build. So slowing heavy down a bit wont fix much. Like Irylia said earlier, nerf the offending sets. Put some kinda of mitigation or cc immunity in med and light passives and POOF medium and light will be relevant again.
Are you kidding? The 3 types have around the same survaibility, the thing is that both, medium and light require skill, while Heavy don't, but that's all. Sure, they can hit the armor cap, but medium can do that too using Brass. Even light can get as high as 23k resistance combining Almalexia's Mercy with Alessia's Bulwark and that's without using major ward/Resolve and also they give you 2 very interesting procs (Did you know you can proc alma heal with equilibrium?)
Heavy also lacks the resource recovery the other two have and the only way to keep on battle is by receiving dmg. Use a poison that drains stam, a stun and 43 points into the siphoning CP star, and the guy is done, no way he can build stam as quick and as reliabily as medium.
You lost the second you threw in brass. Med and light needs give up a damage set to survive but heavy gets to run 7th, fury or ravager which is extremely high damage and the benefits of heavy survival. How in the world is that the same to you?
How do you give up survival on light? Last time I checked there was a skill called "healing ward" that does wonders on light armor, especially if you have a low health bar. Same as this other skill called dampen magicka, that escalates better with your magicka pool. So if you build magicka, you get both, extra dmg and extra mitigation. So a combo of brass + spinners next patch will not only give you the 40% max health shield, but also a shield with a huge resistance, while getting extra penetration.
I'm afraid your problem with heavy is in between the keyboard and the chair. Sorry.
Youre not following me. So a sorc needs to give up a damage set to run brass. Forget your shields comment because you won't be able to sustain them WITHOUT A SUSTAIN SET. So the sorc gives up what? spinners for a sustain set? Wait, that means no damage at all. And I hope you didn't mean to insinuate sorc has good healing bc of healing ward next patch but even if you did, with your build you couldn't sustain healing ward.
All that work to have the survivability of heavy while wearing light with zero damage lol. Meanwhile heavy has the survivability that it does which is way better than the other 2 weights of armour with a ton of damage from fury and 7th. So why wouldn't the entire eso pop not run heavy w fury and 7th? I didn't think I needed to explain the obvious.
Edited by CritsTheBed on October 5, 2018 3:56PM0 -
Nicko_Lps✭✭✭✭✭They will not fix heavy armor META because clearly ZoS destroyed glassy builds as they said because they dont like them.
When players use glassy builds they are being rewarded for taking a high risk of death, now when most ESO casuals CANT actually use a glassy build might ZoS comes with a great idea to nerf all except the exceptions, tanks are the way to go for slow people that can run like flash gordon and have a window for many mistakes before they actually die.
While nightblades retain their right to perfectly hold a glassy build by teleport cloak cloak + escape offcourse because mighty nightbaldes are always an exception in this game.2 -
Wuuffyy✭✭✭✭✭
✭Moonsorrow wrote: »The culprit to heavy is the statbonus it gets imo. ZOS has managed to make health as desireable as other stats currently in the game. Which is good - generally speaking. But problematic when looking at creating optimal builds/setups.
Give light armor 1% healing done and 1% maxmagica per piece of armor worn.
Give medium 2% maxstam per piece of armor worn.
Suddenly we have no glaring stat disparity between different armor weights which would go a long way in reducing heavy being flatout more desireable for most players.
This.
It fills me with joy always to see things suggested this way instead of endless nerfs.
I know like tf is wrong with this people? You can wear any armor weight set and still run the one of your choice, heavy armor has nothing but sus passives and health passives, and forward momentum just got nerfed by half and yet these people fail to realize it’s not heavy armor but rather lack of viable options.Wuuffyy,
ESO player since 2014
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